explanations. *serious spoilers. do not read uless you hae completed the game.*

[Jimmy Dark Aeons Slayer]

It´s the second time i said it but that was the ring Squall gave to Rinoa so it can only be Rinoa!

But that doesn´t mean she died...ohhhh no sir it only shows one of the possible alternative futures and what would happen if Squall didn´t safe Rinoa.

[Ryushikaze]

...Perspective, like opinion, cannot be endlessly used as a defense. He has a valid point. This is the Griever ring- not to mention the OTHER ring on her chain- which only Rinoa has ever been known to wear on a chain.

Though given the linear and locked nature of time, why should we see Squall's visions as anything more than the crazed projections of a tired and weary mind?

Okay, then Why is is there a 'crazed projection' of a helmut shattering when it didn't happen in the first place? ... hmm? Is there a problem granny? (Sorry just reminded me of that old "Crash Bandicoot" commercial.)

Wait, why the hell does something have to happen for Squall to have a crazed hallucination about it?

Look, my point is not to "prove" anything, because, the ENDING is totally open to suspicion. My mission is to understand, WHY... FOR LOVE OF THE WIDOW... WHY does this upset you all so much? As I stated before, and as it's been illustrated, everyone, EVERYONE sees the ending (the spawning of the E=U Theory, amongst others, aka VIEWS, yes, VIEWS). Ugh... Y'know... I just don't understand it... I just... I just don't... There are NO... "FACTS".... ONLY... FANTASY...

Even in fantasy, there are facts. Where is Frodo from, the Shire. Look! A fact in a fantasy!

I witnessed these same so called "facts" with the arguements of FFVII... And I just stood back and watch... And I didn't understand. There's no need to argue or say who's 'right' or 'wrong'... The ending itself is just.... For love of the widow... far from conclusively understandable.... and that is the source of all of these debates.... Why do people insist on this... Y'know what? Fuggit. I'll just concentrate on what I was doin'.... Talk amongst yourselves... I'll start a topic for you... Kefka or Sephiroth? Who was the more entertaining villain? I'm over klempt!

Now THAT is an example of something that IS a matter of pure opinion.

[McLovin']

It´s the second time i said it but that was the ring Squall gave to Rinoa so it can only be Rinoa!

But that doesn´t mean she died...ohhhh no sir it only shows one of the possible alternative futures and what would happen if Squall didn´t safe Rinoa.

Perhaps the ending was an alternate future if rinoa was not in his life.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

What's rational about this confusing ending. What's rational about "Time Compression" when no one actually agrees or understands it is; only to be bogged down by the next endless unproven 'theory'.

The fact of the matter is, that there is no conclusive understanding of how the ending ended, but I really just want to understand... Why is the R=U debated, instead of discussed? Why is it hated more than any other interpetation? Is it because people just don't want to see it that way?

I'm still working on my 'essay' but I'm trying to word it so that people understand I'm not "PROVE" anything... Just stating how I see the R=U is as 'plausiable' as anything else. I also want to try to prevent from getting trashed and burned like I did so many years ago.

You the flames... It was like I spouted blashphemy. And that's what I want to undestand why is this R=U trashed in such a fashion if it is just fantasy? I'm hoping to find something with the responses.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

It´s the second time i said it but that was the ring Squall gave to Rinoa so it can only be Rinoa!

But that doesn´t mean she died...ohhhh no sir it only shows one of the possible alternative futures and what would happen if Squall didn´t safe Rinoa.

Perhaps the ending was an alternate future if rinoa was not in his life.

Mmmmm.... Could be...

[Go powerful women]

Alright. My opinion is that while Squall was alone on his little island of hopelessness he began to think of the one person whom he loved and gave him hope. The visions of Rinoa dying (the faceplate of the helmet breaking) was meant to crush Squall's spirit. (This vision was the scariest because it was the one time that he thought Rinoa was going to die so it was easiest to believe.) Seeing her die and believing that she was dead made Squall give up. Therefore he passed out right after that vision. He could withstand all the other crazy visions but her death was the last straw and he gave up. I also think that Squall got seperated from the others because his subconcious was concentrating on other things. Such as his childhood when he was alone, Edea, and what happened to Ultimecia. He wasn't able to find his way back like the others because he had things yet to do. Rinoa thought of how she wanted to go to the place they promised to meet so she went there. After a while she got worried and wanted to be where Squall was. Hence she ended up in Squall's desert. When she found Squall she wished that they could have met where they promised and the time compression ended and they ended up there.

[boys from the dwarf]

from this thread i have established that the visions at the end are just torment and madness and dont have much to do with reality. its rinoa in the spacesuit. squall give the ring to her and i dont see any reason why anyone else would want the ring. and as you learn in the garden war scene she is determined to survive because she has something important that belong to squall. that determination is what made her hang on when she was about to fall ad i think her seeing the ring in space was also part of her determination.

my opinion is that squall does die in the ending but i cant prove it and wont fight to prove my point if someone thinks otherwise. just remember that this is my opinion.

squall is lost and would definetly die because of lack of water and food. he's already tired out and the time compression makes him see disturbing visions and i think the final vision of rinoa dieing just finished him. he collapses and possibly dies. im not sure if rinoa would have acted the same way she does when she see's squall on the ground if he was alive.

the discussions about FF8's endless are endless. i agree with what PAK said about this just being ideas, ideas and mroe ideas piled up on each other and each question brings up new questions. good luck on your essay and it should help clear things up on the forums. maybe you could ask for the moderators to make it an important and permanent thread so these discussions dont happen about once a week. anyway. thats my say on the matter.

[Sir Bahamut]

Sorry, but is your opinion that Squall dies and then is revived by Rinoa, or that he dies permanently? If the latter, you realise you're implying that the whole Garden and all of Squall friends would be laughing merrily and joking about having a party right after Squall's death, right?

As for PAKs "essay", I think you should wait till you see it before making claims to its importance. No offense to PAK, but it may turn out to be entirely unnecessary.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

It´s the second time i said it but that was the ring Squall gave to Rinoa so it can only be Rinoa!

But that doesn´t mean she died...ohhhh no sir it only shows one of the possible alternative futures and what would happen if Squall didn´t safe Rinoa.

And this is a 'fact'? Not a point of view?

Alternative futures? Frankly, I don't see that happening because Ultimecia was only compressing the past of one timeline. But that's just my opinion/view.

The helmut is unclear on whether that is Rinoa or no. I think it could be either Squall or Rinoa, but the question remains... That didn't happen, or did it? How many licks does take to get to center of a tootie pop? (yeah, I know someone claims to have answered that but... )

In this case, it's more to the liking of "Which came first: The chicken or the egg? The helmut exploding or no? The world may never know...

Damn, now I got that tootsie roll song in my head... "The world look mighty good to me... Cuz' Tootisie Roll is all I see, whatever it is I THINK I SEE, becomes a tootsie roll to me... (sigh) Memories.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

Sorry, but is your opinion that Squall dies and then is revived by Rinoa, or that he dies permanently? If the latter, you realise you're implying that the whole Garden and all of Squall friends would be laughing merrily and joking about having a party right after Squall's death, right?

As for PAKs "essay", I think you should wait till you see it before making claims to its importance. No offense to PAK, but it may turn out to be entirely unnecessary.

I'm beginning to think you're right Sir Bahamut. I think that Squall may have died the time Sorceress Edea struck him down with Blizzara. He was 'revived' ans sustained throughout the story since that time. He is then revived by Sorceress Rinoa at the end apparently. But could that have been a 'hallucination'? I don't think it was.

[Ryushikaze]

What's rational about this confusing ending. What's rational about "Time Compression" when no one actually agrees or understands it is; only to be bogged down by the next endless unproven 'theory'.

People not understanding something does not make it irrational. People did not understand the way, say lightning worked, this does not make lightning irrational. It may make their explanations irrational, but not the event itself.

The fact of the matter is, that there is no conclusive understanding of how the ending ended, but I really just want to understand... Why is the R=U debated, instead of discussed? Why is it hated more than any other interpetation? Is it because people just don't want to see it that way?

You've been told the reasons why several times. Don't pretend you haven't.

I'm still working on my 'essay' but I'm trying to word it so that people understand I'm not "PROVE" anything... Just stating how I see the R=U is as 'plausiable' as anything else. I also want to try to prevent from getting trashed and burned like I did so many years ago.

Except you'll be trying to prove how R=U is plausible. You'll never be able to escape peer review, PAK.

You the flames... It was like I spouted blashphemy. And that's what I want to undestand why is this R=U trashed in such a fashion if it is just fantasy? I'm hoping to find something with the responses.

Because 'fantasy' doesn't mean 'anything goes'. Even fantasy can be rationally scrutinized.

It´s the second time i said it but that was the ring Squall gave to Rinoa so it can only be Rinoa!

But that doesn´t mean she died...ohhhh no sir it only shows one of the possible alternative futures and what would happen if Squall didn´t safe Rinoa.

And this is a 'fact'? Not a point of view?

That it does not mean she died is fact. That it has a meaning is a point of view. Even this point of view must be supported with evidence or reasoning.

The helmut is unclear on whether that is Rinoa or no. I think it could be either Squall or Rinoa, but the question remains... That didn't happen, or did it? How many licks does take to get to center of a tootie pop? :p (yeah, I know someone claims to have answered that but... :p)

The helmet is not unclear at all.Two rings, Rinoa's rings, are visible. Arguing that it is anyone else is to argue against the evidence. Same as with 'did it happen' Rinoa is still alive. Arguing that she died is against the evidence.

In this case, it's more to the liking of "Which came first: The chicken or the egg? The helmut exploding or no? The world may never know...

We have no reason to think the helmet breaking ever occurred outside of Squall's fevered mind.

I'm beginning to think you're right Sir Bahamut. I think that Squall may have died the time Sorceress Edea struck him down with Blizzara. He was 'revived' ans sustained throughout the story since that time. He is then revived by Sorceress Rinoa at the end apparently. But could that have been a 'hallucination'? I don't think it was.

Evidence in favor of Squall dying, ever?
And where did SB ever front that interpretation?

[boys from the dwarf]

read my last post. that gives some hints of squall dieing. it cant be proved really but like i said. its the way rinoa acts when she see's him. she may not of reacted the same way if she was alive. and SB i meant he died then was revided. he cant have died permantently because you see him in the ending sequence of the credits.

[jammi567]

. he cant have died permantently because you see him in the ending sequence of the credits.

damm, that's what i was going to say.

[Sir Bahamut]

and SB i meant he died then was revided. he cant have died permantently because you see him in the ending sequence of the credits.

Ok, well that's fine. It makes no difference to the story if you believe he died or merely passed out anyway, so I have no "problems" with that statement.

By the way, I have to echo Ruy; when did I ever front Squall's death by Edea? I think that although it may be an interesting idea, it has no reasonable basis whatsoever.

[Pharoh Amon Khan III]

WHY can't Rinoa possibly be Ultimecia? Everyone says that there is no 'evidence' in the game, but it is suggestive in the ending. Sure Selphie, Irvine and the gang get their shine, but Rinoa's image is repeated at the end and no one else except Ultimecia, making it highly suggestive. Also, for the sake of the arguement "It not in the game" or there's no evidence"... There are several ways of seeing the ending.

There is the "Happy Ending" or the possiblity that Rinoa will/could become Ultimecia. For at the end of the game, Ultimecia still exists in the future and because of the Fated Children and Ellone, Ultimecia possesses the entire Succession of Witches save for Rinoa; and Edea who would be the Fated Successor of Ultimecia thus creating the "Loop of Fate".

Whether Rinoa becomes Ultimeica or not, the Fate of the Fated Children was to be the Fated Safe-Guard that ensured the defeat of the Ultimate Sorceress: Ultimecia.

Now, as far as 'in the game' or 'evidence' goes, at the end of the game, Ultimecia still exists in the future and can possess any Sorceress she so chooses, for she has (technically) already done so. Also, as the game shows, Sorceress Rinoa is the final Sorceress, there are no other Sorceresses in the game after the ending.

And as the arguements started so is there the mystery of 'what happens' now? Will Rinoa become Ultimecia?

Someone told me that it didn't matter WHO Rinoa's successor would be, but that it 'did'/'will' happen. It DOES matter because we have no other assurance of who that will be or if there is a successor at all. And there is the 'evidence' or lack there of... Of the 'possibility'. The only reason why it is rejected is because most do not want to see anything past the "Happy Ending"...

I personally don't believe that Sorceresses are 'immortal' but believe it or not kiddles, people DO live multiple generations. And as we see 'in the game' Edea Kramer succeeds Sorceress Ultimecia when she is around the age of 30 years old, and 15-18 years later she has not, cosmetically aged a day. Apparently, the Sorceress Power has the ability to affect the human physiology. (Elongated hair going to short, facial scars, tattooes, horns, and wings, ect). The ambiguity of what is defined as 'generations' or how many generations leaves the future untold as it should be for time travellers, otherwise they would go about trying to change 'fate' as Ultimecia did, but ultimately failed.

So... I don't see any reason 'Why Rinoa could become Ultimecia'.

Thank you... and good night.