Ideas on Brd sub for Whm ...

[Fuego]

Ok i am a lvl 30 Taru Whm and have been thinking about possible sub job options for it that are still functional but not overly used ... IE Whm/Blm (although i was thinking if Brd isn't that great i could always go and try my Smn as sub to boost my MP)

I was thinking that since Whm is a great sub for Brd ... maybe i could use bard to help me with Whm (Healing and Buffing) i was thinking Army's Paeon II (2 Hp./Tick) would be helpful to have esp to concerve on MP which depending on how fast the party pulls can become difficult to manage...

When my Whm reaches 34 (4 lvls up from me now) Foe Requiem II might be handy to have as well (although I am not banking on this to be a saving grace for the choice of sub) not to mention Light Threnody and then attack with Banish II. That would be nice (esp if the Threnody sticks )

I am just thinking aloud and wonder what your thoughts are.
Alot of you guys/gals are more knowledgable in this sorta thing than i

Please and thank you
Fue~

[Ouch!]

The main disadvantages to using BRD as a sub is the lack of ability to equip an intstrument, and you may only stick one song effect at a time. Some of the things you mentioned do have merits, but I can't expect any debuff spells to have significant effect due to the halved skill levels.

You mentioned SMN, which is a pretty good choice. Unlike /WHM for /BLM, the only real advantage BLM adds is the boosted MP pool. You could argue for the Conserve MP passive trait as well, but that's kind of a crapshoot. SMN is good not only because the even higher MP boost, but also at level 50 you'd get auto-refresh, which is pretty handy.

[CVFreak]

At that lvl chances of you finding a killer party when playing whm are kinda slim, but if you can find a good party who knows what they are doing whm/brd can have alot of advantages for chaining.

While you are losing out on mp, it is not a huge downer in mp. You can only have one song going but if say ( you said lvl 30 ) you are chainging mandys or gobs, if someone gets put to sleep or gets poisoned or anything that regen just might save their life, then again more mp and an emergency curaga or cure 2-3 ( hehehe hate ) might be better.

I played around with whm/brd in CN back in the day and It was ok but I was a lazy whm spamming to up my divine magic when I was not curing hahaha. I would say smn or blm are the better sub but dont be afraid to try new things and have fun at those lvls. Whats funny is when I promised my friend to lvl with his smn and me on my war it was next to impossible to find a rdm or brd so we had no refresh, I ran to rabao and went war/brd ( I know lol ) and we were able to get to chain 4 that way, even though it was funny as hell but I had beefy gear and was using sushi +1.

[Fuego]

stares at CVFreak in awwww
*shakes head and cheers CVFreak on !*

I like the MP boost of Smn esp to a taru !!!

But in the interest of trying something new, i may just give /Brd a try and let ya all know how it went

Thank you guys you ROCK !

Peace Love and Pitbulls
FUE~

[Lionx]

In general, if you are a taru, WHM/BRD in valkurm days arent bad, Paeon and Madrigal can lower downtime if you can time the songs with your resting. Afterwards though /BLM at lvl 40 is undoubtly the best as it gives you Conserve MP which has been tested to save more MP if you are casting frequently.

However /SMN to me is the one sj that i find it most situational. While it does give you more MP, that extra bit of MP wouldnt really matter, if you run out you run out, and especially as a Taru you arent missing much, its practically just sitting there imo. The only thing good is Auto Refresh in an exp party, however it is still debatable as in which actually saves more MP, Auto Refresh, or Conserve MP. So far i use the ultility of /BLM more often than /SMN. The only real advantage for situational uses for /SMN is carby pulling or maybe Aerial Armor, otherwise Escape, Warp and Sleep(with Elemental Seal) is preferable over /SMN imo ESEPCIALLY as a taru. When soloing Drain and Aspir are more useful than whatever /SMN gives you.

Lots of people use /SMN, but personally i just feel people just oogle over Auto Refresh and lack the hindsight to see what /BLM can really do over /SMN. I dont prefer it at all.

/BRD is useful around lvl 50, outside of valkurm levels, using Ballad. This is of course...without a Main Job Bard, if you have a main job BRD in your party, subbing BRD is a waste of time(sub BLM). If you can mantain the Ballad/Madrigal Cycle, along with resting and healing, then /BRD especially in merit pts, can go a LONG way to preserving chains and other stuff. I use /BRD in speed parties when i see no normal BRD and it works out great. The downside? Its really busy and hard to keep up, but if you can keep it up with the stress, it can work out really great. +10 Acc? Wewt. 1/3 Refresh multiplied by how many magic users there are? Even better....but only if you can keep up.

Imo the best subs are:

/RDM /BLM /BRD fine from valkurm to 40
/BLM definetly from 40-50.
Depending on parties, /BRD will work onward without mainjob brd and in the right pts(especially magic heavy ones, as ballad multiplies in usefulness the more magic users there are). Then i would put /BLM for everything else. For situational uses or maybe exp, /SMN is fine too, but personally i would prefer /BLM over /SMN, and /BRD if you really want that Auto-Refresh without a main job BRD.

I have yet to unlock BLU or COR, but i would even gamble to say that it might be fine too on WHM depending on the situation, when i get back to the game i hope to test this out.

[Fuego]

Ok i agree with that Lionx

Thank you for the feed back ...
Bard did work well (we didn't have a main brd) and as a whm (Army's Paeon II (2 Hp./Tick)) was a godsend

As a lvl 30 Whm/15 Brd I used that (Army's Paeon II) and then regen'd the two most attacted pt members and then just spammed regular ole' Cure's. It saved me sooo much time healing (mp) and stress because we were pulling pretty non-stop

I agree that /Blm with Conserve Mp is pretty awsome and better than /Smn with auto refresh of 1mp/tick and thats not until lvl 50 if your subing Smn (lvl25) ... also the fact that the summons are gimp'd to half lvl etc.

I recomend /Brd for pt's without a Fulltime Brd and Subing Blm over Smn

[Lionx]

I just remembered that Elemental Seal is /BLM usable at lvl 30, for certain situations you might want that over /BRD. /RDM gives you Fast Cast but imo its rather neglible compared to Elemental Seal, but it is still fine..Conserve MP is where it really takes the cake. However /RDM is good when you can sub it for Dispel for whatever reason you need it and theres no other Dispel out there.

[Fuego]

Yea elemental seal is good

I wouldn't really need it though,
Stone, poison, water, bind, aero, blaze spikes, bio, drain, fire, and stonega ... thats what you get when you sub blm for a 30 whm ...
If you elemental seal it i don't think it would be that much more damage ... not to mention i can't sleep a mob so i don't know

Fast cast is well and good but for a whm sub you have the (basically) same spells (esp at that lvl ...), so i would think blm would be the better choice at that point in time esp.

And conserve Mp ... thats what i am talkin' 'bout

[Lionx]

Well its not only that, but Elemental Seal effects anything thrown at the mosnter, including your enfeebles and other misc spells. Bind works well vs Aquans too. Fast Cast at that lvl..i forget the exact percentage but its nothing uber high or noticible on Cure spells. Maybe a bit more with Regen.

You get Sleep if you are lvl 40 WHM subbing BLM, i forget the RDM's lvl, however Sleep is based on your Enfeebling Magic, hence if you do lvl it up decently, it should land just fine, and if it doesnt theres Elemental Seal...dont forget Sleepga for /BLM later too.

[Fuego]

Cool

Its nice to have that advantage just in case.
Hopefully I won't have to use it as I like having an actual Blm and/or Rdm in pt :nibbles:

But I do agree that Blm offers more as a sub than Rdm (at least at these lvls)

[Yeargdribble]

Just a comment on BLM vs SMN subs. If you are casting absolutely non-stop Conserve MP will easily out-perform Auto-Refresh. However, this isn't normally the case. In most PT, especially in the mid-range, you won't be casting non-stop. Auto-Refesh will still be running while you aren't casting (20MP/minute) while Conserve MP will only kick in a few times here and there.

As for subbing BRD, I have to say that your song buffs are going to be pathetically weak for several reasons. Our buffs are based on 2 skills. Either Singing+Wind or Singing+String. Essentially you will have half leveled singing and no instrument. Already you only have buffs that are 1/4th the power. It's really much weaker than that because our instruments (even more so the +1s) give an immense boost to the potency of our buffs. Here is a good example:

My wife somtimes will go 75WHM/37BRD to specific events where they might be useful (like Limbus). Why an Etude from me can give +25 to any stat... an Etude by her can give +3 to any stat. Quite a difference in buff strength.




Now, with that said, you only get a negligable amount of MP from your sub as a WHM at lower levels. If you stick to using only things like Paeon II it might be worth the cut in MP. Paeon will recover 240 HP/minute over 6 people (though I doubt 6 people in your PT really need it). That's essentially 8 cure Is (64 MP). Now in all reality it will only benefit 3 PT members most of the time so half that. So 4 cures (32 MP). This is every minute, so honestly I could see this outperforming Conserve MP at lower levels.

Once you hit 50 and get Ballad, Ballad will definitely outshine Paeon. Now you have to ask yourself if you have 8 seconds every 2 minutes to cast it. It will give you the same benefit as a WHM as SMN sub does except that you lose 8 seconds of potential resting every 2 minutes to keep the Refresh up. However, at the same time you may be helping the MP of other PT members. In mage heavy PT, or a PT with DRK, PLD or BLU this might be a godsend.

[Fuego]

Very true Yeargdribble