FINAL BATTLE: Thief vs. BB

[Martyr]

I don't see any other threads relating to this topic.
So I say we have at it.

I'm a Thief Supporter, and I'll gether my information for a future post. But I say we all come down here and compare notes and determine for certain, finally, that the Thief is by far and wide, greater than the BB, and that the Black Belt is, in turn, the most useless character ever to desecrate the land of Final Fantasy.

Of course, I am proposing my argument from the standpoint of the NES player.
But I'll allow DoS players or whoever else to state their opinions too. I'm sure that the BB can wear great armor and cast lv. 7 White and Black magic in DoS, but even still...

So, come one, come all. Try (and fail) to defend your ridiculous opinions about how the Black Belt is useful!

[Black Mage FF1]

Compared to the Fighter or Red Mage, both the BB and Thief are useless (just like the wm/bm are useless compared to the Rm). However, I find the Black Belt to be better than the thief.

Black Belt has

Higher attack power
Gets 2x the hits (with fists)
Higher Magic Defense
Higher HP
Cheap
Since he doesnt need weapons he can use his weapon slots for items that cast spells.



The thief has nothing over the bb. The Ninja however, gets some black magic and waaaaaay better defense (due to armor). But thats it.

And please don't mention running. Because like I said before, any four character party can run almost as good as a thief. And is running goin to help you during a boss fight? No.

Honestly though, they are both terrible useless characters. But I still like to use em.

[Captain Maxx Power]

Compared to the Fighter or Red Mage, both the BB and Thief are useless (just like the wm/bm are useless compared to the Rm). However, I find the Black Belt to be better than the thief.

I agree, Red Mage wins.

[Ender]

At high levels in the original NES version the Black Belt's evolution, the Master, PWNS every other class in melee combat. It's not even close. For pure destructive power over a large sequence of battles (that is, where spells would be depleted and all characters would eventually rely on melee combat) nothing tops a high-level Master. If you cannot accept that as fact, then you haven't played the BB/Master late enough into the game, or you're playing one of the inferior versions (Origins or DoS).

Working against the BB/Master are two things:
1. He is limited to melee attacks exclusively (letting him use an item would be a waste of his turn in 95% of cases). He lacks anything that makes him more useful, "in a pinch," than the other classes in any way.
2. It is debatable if, late in the game, ie at high levels, the Master's destuctive power is that big of an advantage. Most high level party combinations can make swiss cheese of the last few "dungeons." Does the Master's destructive power make up for almost total lack of versatility? That depends on your party IMO. A diverse party can stand a single powerful, but non-versatile character. A very melee-heavy party is going to make you wish the BB/M had some other talents besides punching things really hard.

[Nerevarine]

i find the BB to be boring and weak. sure he has phenomonal attack power but only at ridiculously high levels that you dont reach if you r playin a normal game. thiefs can run away very good. the they can use black magic and have attack and defense that is only second to your fighter (assuming that you have at least 1/3 of a brain cell and included a fighter in you party). And as far as my expieriances have gone i have seen white mages in games that have more hp than the BB in the same party. And having lots of hp does no good when you can keep it very long. ghosts have hit me for like 400 plus damage to a master in the second slot. so i find thieves/ninjas to be much more of a reliable character in the game

[Zeromus_X]

Eh, the Black Belt. I mean, if it were just the Thief (disregarding his running skills, as the average person won't try low level games) and not a Ninja, then Black Belt would win, but if it were both higher level classes, then the Master would win, so...>_>.

[feioncastor]

i find the BB to be boring and weak. sure he has phenomonal attack power but only at ridiculously high levels that you dont reach if you r playin a normal game. thiefs can run away very good. the they can use black magic and have attack and defense that is only second to your fighter (assuming that you have at least 1/3 of a brain cell and included a fighter in you party). And as far as my expieriances have gone i have seen white mages in games that have more hp than the BB in the same party. And having lots of hp does no good when you can keep it very long. ghosts have hit me for like 400 plus damage to a master in the second slot. so i find thieves/ninjas to be much more of a reliable character in the game

The BB doesn't truly shine till you visit Bahamut. I've killed Chaos in 3 hits with a Master, level 30ish (if I remember correctly, it has been a while). By that time, he is usually doing 700 damage per turn.

I have to say that if you're playing a game of practicality and ease, Red Mages are superior, as they make outstanding fighters and can cast the important spells. Sure, they can't use Nuke, but honestly, no use really makes good use of Nuke because you only have 2 or 3 casts for it and you certainly aren't using them on anyone before Chaos. So if you use a Black Mage, and his turn comes up and you're not fighting a boss, you pretty much have to waste his turn, one way or another. You just use a Heal Staff and restore 19 hp to everyone, or have him attack and do 5 damage, if he hits at all. Black Mages do make short work of bosses, though. I mean, it doesn't take a lot of Lit 3 to take down Krakken. Plus, "Fast" is a black magic spell, and that is the source of my Master's powers. But I think that Red Mages/Wizards can use Fast. I know they can't use any of the Harm Spells, and they have gotten me out of many a geist-filled jam. What decent spells can the Red Mage not use? I don't think he can use EXIT, and that's an important one considering that the Temple of Fiends Revisted has no physical exit. If you wanna leave and show the masamune off to all your friends, you'll need a White Wizard, because I'm pretty sure that not even the White Mage can use it.

When you guys refer to the Thief's "running skills", are you saying that the Thief has a better chance of getting a "Close Call..." than a BB or other class?

[Nerevarine]

yes the thief has the best chance of gettin a close call.

is that 3 turns all by himself or a whole party in three turns

and i like the red mage al lot he is easily my favorite character in this game i never have a party without him

puttin the RM and BB in the same party puts you in a predicament with you armor since the both use the opal bracelet at the end of the game. if you use it on RM, 29-35 absorb for your master just dont cut it. Kracken can jack him for like 800 damage in the temple. i had this happen. i dunno if it makes a big difference but he was in the bottom slot too. if the opal bracelet to the Master, the RW has the silver armor then and that adds up to like 38 or so absorb. (also with ribbon,procape and proring). ninja can use the flame/ice gear and no one else uses that in the end game.

this is a major plus to me since i dont have to pucker up my backside everytime i see my master do the little flashy thing for when he gets hit.

[boys from the dwarf]

I don't see any other threads relating to this topic.
So I say we have at it.

I'm a Thief Supporter, and I'll gether my information for a future post. But I say we all come down here and compare notes and determine for certain, finally, that the Thief is by far and wide, greater than the BB, and that the Black Belt is, in turn, the most useless character ever to desecrate the land of Final Fantasy.

Of course, I am proposing my argument from the standpoint of the NES player.
But I'll allow DoS players or whoever else to state their opinions too. I'm sure that the BB can wear great armor and cast lv. 7 White and Black magic in DoS, but even still...

So, come one, come all. Try (and fail) to defend your ridiculous opinions about how the Black Belt is useful!

coming from someone called theiforever.

the BB/master is the most physicall powerful class on the game and is stronger than the fighter.

the theif/ninja is powerful but not as powerful and probably has better defence as well as some pretty useless magic which would be better used by black mages and white mages.

the blackbelt is useful.

[ValiantKnight]

NES - I would think they both have their slight advantages. Toss up

PS1 - BB gains more levels to go up on easy mode, and on all modes thief loses his running superiority. BB wins.

DoS - Thief gets 1-2 extra hits added on to him.. BB gets his hitrate, damage, and everything scattered across 99 levels, and also reduced a bit. BB becomes a weakling... Thief becomes insanely powerful.. Thief wins


NES - toss up
PS1 - BB
DoS - Thief by far....

[Captain Maxx Power]

Eh, the Black Belt. I mean, if it were just the Thief (disregarding his running skills, as the average person won't try low level games) and not a Ninja, then Black Belt would win, but if it were both higher level classes, then the Master would win, so...>_>.

I am amazed that neither of the following occured in this post:

1: Mention of Red Mages
2: Mention of White Mage Kitties

[Zeromus_X]

Well, of course we know that PRMs and WMKs are the best, but the thread starter was only asking about the Thief and the Black Belt.

[Odin2006]

NES version: The BB owns everyone else, obviously. A bunch of high level Masters can take out Chaos in no time.

GBA version: I'm still experimenting, but the thief seems slightly better then the BB.

[Sylvie]

I'd say the BB would annihilate the Thief. Seriously, the BB is a powerhouse. The Thief is just quick on his feet, and can carry some semi-weak swords. Now, if we were talking BB vs. Ninja, I'd say that the Ninja may have more of a chance. But for now, BB wins.

[Nerevarine]

I don't see any other threads relating to this topic.
But I'll allow DoS players or whoever else to state their opinions too. I'm sure that the BB can wear great armor and cast lv. 7 White and Black magic in DoS, but even still...

The black belt can use level 7 spells and wear better armor in DoS?

Ami missin something here?