View Poll Results: Vegnagun vs. Sin

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  • Sin

    58 85.29%
  • Vegnagun

    15 22.06%
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Thread: Vegnagun vs. Sin

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavrobel View Post
    No, it was very much created to destroy Sin. Bevelle knew it could destroy Zanarkand on its own.

    The entirety of FFX-2 says that Vegnagun > Sin.
    On the contrary, Bevelle was not even aware of Sin until after Zanarkand's destruction, and would not have built Vegnagun until after that if it was built as a response to Sin.

    Just look at Maechen's dialogue, it clearly shows that Vegnagun existed during the Machina War and thus could not have been built to combat Sin as it did not exist yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maechen, Late chapter 4
    Maechen: Where to begin? About a thousand years ago, Lenne was a popular
    songstress in Zanarkand. The talk of the town, you might say. In a more peaceful age, she might have lived out her years as a performer. But the times-and her talents-did not allow such a thing to be. You see, Lenne's gift for singing was matched by her genius in the summoner's arts. When then Machina War began, all summoners were sent to the front lines. Zanarkand was hopelessly outnumbered, and Lenne knew she would not return home alive. Nonetheless, she was prepared to lay down her life to protect her people. Yet there was one person who refused to let Lenne die. Yes, he would do anything to save her. He was...a young man, Lenne's lover.

    Rikku: Shuyin?

    Maechen: I...don't know. His name has been lost to history. Whatever his name, the youth endeavored to steal the enemy's machina weapon and save Lenne. However...
    And quite possibly as X-2 dictates, Vegnagun might be able to destroy Sin, but I'm sentimental and prefer Sin...

  2. #32
    One Hundred Chimneys Recognized Member Tavrobel's Avatar
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    It also says many times otherwise in the game that Vegnagun was built specifically to combat Sin, including the entirety of the first and second chapter. Like I'm going to believe the biased opinion of an old-undead man whose reliability of words after FFX-2 were put in definite suspicion.

    FFX-2 also has a bunch of plotholes that directly contradict that which was said in FFX, but hey, I've only played the game seventy damned times.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavrobel View Post
    It also says many times otherwise in the game that Vegnagun was built specifically to combat Sin, including the entirety of the first and second chapter. Like I'm going to believe the biased opinion of an old-undead man whose reliability of words after FFX-2 were put in definite suspicion.

    FFX-2 also has a bunch of plotholes that directly contradict that which was said in FFX, but hey, I've only played the game seventy damned times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maechen, In Zanarkand, Chapter 5
    Maechen: Although Vegnagun was constructed during the Machina War, there is no record of it ever being used. One could argue that the coming of Sin made war a secondary concern. But the real reason was that Vegnagun was nothing short of a titanic failure. You see, it was quick to respond to hostility, but lacked the ability to discern friend from foe. A weapon that slaughters indiscriminately would be far too dangerous for actual use in combat. Incidentally, this is why Vegnagun was never considered as a measure to combat Sin. Instead it was locked away under Bevelle.
    This is the only evidence from the game that I can find that explicitly states Vegnagun's origins, though it is admittedly vague in describing the purpose of the machina. "Constructed during the Machina War" implies that it was built in response to the war, yet "One could argue that the coming of Sin made war a secondary concern" implies that the coming of Sin is what encouraged its construction.

    Using a bit of logic and canon from X that Zanarkand was destroyed on Sin's appearance, as far as Bevelle were concerned the war would be over so if it was built to combat Sin, how could it also be built during the war.

    To be quite honest though, if you can find one verifiable quote from X-2 that explicitly states that Vegnagun was built to combat Sin, I will mention nothing more of it. I freely admit that what I have quoted and my own, admittedly poor memory and somewhat sloppy quick research skills is all I have to say on the matter and they are nothing near concrete and solid basis for a discussion.

    Just one last point, even though I've only played this game about 5 times, I'm pretty damned sure that Vegnagun is not even mentioned in Chapter 1... I also agree 100% with you that there are numerous plotholes and contradictions revolving around this game that perhaps influenced this disagreement.

  4. #34
    One Hundred Chimneys Recognized Member Tavrobel's Avatar
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    I'll get back to you when I find my copy of FFX-2 with one that is not so vague.

    I shall admit, that perhaps my way of thinking is a little severe, however, the path of how I saw the situation was the last line of your quote. Perhaps I misconstrued it in its context.

    Incidentally, this is why Vegnagun was never considered as a measure to combat Sin.
    If it were thought to be able to destroy Sin (then scrapped), then the intention for its construction must have been something akin to the situation.

    I find it difficult to believe that the people of Bevelle would make something that would destroy the world, yet not use it against Sin. It would be illogical and out of place. To me, the war wasn't over and that Sin appared not at the precise end of the war, but just before it. In that short time, Vegnagun could have been finished. I am sure that it was not built to destroy Zanarkand.

    Then it puts me at a loss as to why they built it. But I'm fairly certain that Zanarkand was not part of its design. Maechen's words are also not necessarily trustworthy in FFX-2, since it is clear that he has bias, involving Lenne and Shuyin. Despite all his textiness, it's hard for him to research something that was locked away, and hidden even from all but the most inner sanctums for 1000 years. Even death has its limits, a something that FFX and FFX-2 have long since impressed upon our minds.

  5. #35

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    To me, that line implies that Vegnagun was never, ever, thought of as a viable solution to Sin, and feels more like an afterthought of little consequence.

    Regardless, thanks for hearing me out. And yeah, death may well have its limits on Maechen so his ability to research this issue and accurately report may indeed be hampered, so perhaps I too have been a bit extreme in taking his word for gospel.

  6. #36

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    Sin what would hands down cuz of his spawns.

  7. #37
    Gobbledygook! Recognized Member Christmas's Avatar
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    The oversized whale will crush that disgusting insect!

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