Do they carry it at Trader Joe's?
Do they carry it at Trader Joe's?
No, but they carry some very delicious vegan oatmeal cookies!
Screw that. Free range eggs are easy to find.
That's right... THE EGGS IN YOUR COOKIES WERE BROWN!
That always freaks BJ's out for some reason, "Mandy, the eggs are brown!?!?!!"
My grandparent's chickens always lay brown eggs.
Hunting for eggs is like looking for treasure. It's really fun.
I want chickens but the manager of my apartments wont let me build a coop over by the pool area.
Keeping chickens in an apartment complex is not very humane, Shlup.
Says who?!
It's more important than my health at times, yes. I can't think of anyone who only eats for health, or who never acts in any way that's harmful to your health. For example anyone who ever drinks alcohol values something more than their health.Originally Posted by ShlupQuack
I would also say meat intake is more important than the well-being of animals, I suppose. I value my happiness a lot.
My thinking things are yummy doesn't really play into it, though it is true that I do think cows are yummy. Taking up extra land is OK because I see no reason why it's not; however assuming taking up land is not OK, there's no reason cows should be singled out as the place to make improvements. I imagine there are easier things to do that would give greater reduction in land use than eliminating cattle.So I guess you're saying you think animal suffering and taking up that extra land is okay because you think meat is yummy. That's the argument I'm seeing from you. And isn't "there are worse things so I don't have to care about this" a logical fallacy of some kind? Aren't you always on about that?
I don't think animal suffering is a good thing, so it's not really a fallacy since I'm not disagreeing. However I'm not willing to do anything about it because 1) I think the level of suffering isn't so terribly bad right now as to demand my attention, 2) I think there are better ways to spend my time, if I wanted to do some good in the world, 3) meat makes me happy. I could spend time caring for suffering human beings, if I wanted to spend time on a worthy cause; a suffering human is worth a great many suffering cows to me.
The vegetarian argument generally comes down to "hurting cows makes me sad". Either it makes you sad or it doesn't. It doesn't make me sad (well not sad enough to stop eating them), but I can easily see how it would make other people sad. There's no need to rationalize your opinion any further than that.
For the most part I don't disagree with you. Well, I do disagree, but I think you're entitled to value steaks and yummies over the suffering of animals and the other things wrong with factory farming, even if it sucks.
However, you seem to be ignoring a lot of arguments for reducing meat intake, a few of which I've already mentioned: the damage it's doing to the environment, freeing up the land and grain used to feed animals to feed starving people, the government subsidies poured into factory farming. Maybe you just don't see them as a problem. I don't know how much you've actually looked into how much of a problem they may or may not be, but if you choose to remain ignorant for the sake of your happiness I can't really say you're bad for that, since we all do that about things. If we cared about everything our lives would be super sad.
Umm, you do realise they're not killed like that, right? Not all cattle are raised like that either.
Way to overdramatise it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_bolt_gun
Note the key point : "The stunning is essential to prevent the pain and suffering of the animal while sticking (bleeding)."
Also, the argument that raising livestock means people starve due to lack of food is a complete fallacy, there's more than enough food produced each year to feed every person on the planet, it's just so much of it goes to waste because of poor distribution. People will starve regardless of whether livestock are raised or not, it's down to governments to distribute food, whatever the source.
I realize not all livestock is killed the same way. What's your point? Captive bolt guns are not always used, and often not used properly. [more info]
And I didn't say raising livestock means people starve to death. Don't twist my words.
Eat: Free Trade, Grain Fed, Organic, Freerange.
OR: Become a vegetarian.
But realize how F'ing privleged you are to have that freedom of choice.
That's it really.
Eating food isn't even about survival any more.
I think that's what bugs me most.
It's about making these super-educated, super-moral, super civilian choices that manage to create a basis for arguement and battle of oppinions.
So on one hand there are people who believe in living as educated and moral beings which is one way of life... but I hardly believe it is more honourable or more human to live this way... than it is to blissfully enjoy the life that was given to you in all its mass produced GMO glory.
Last edited by Chemical; 11-11-2006 at 02:11 AM.
Boldly go.
Your point, Ashley?
I was considering making a constructive reply, but then I realised that this will just go in circles with me whipping out pro-meat eating evidence and you whipping out anti-meat eating evidence, everyone will get tired and nobody will get anywhere.
Why bother.
I give you less credit for being smart than I should, Lindy.
*goes back to her video game*
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