Nasarian Altimeros: I'm not going to nit-pick and quote you on every little thing you said, but I do infact recall you saying how the comments he said were racist, but that it doesn't make him racist; which is what puzzled me in the first place. But, you never really explained how that could be possible. Care to elaborate?
To quote my first post:
What that means is, it's entirely possible that he said what he did because he knew it would piss the guy off more than anything else. I honestly don't see why people can't use insults that they don't believe in themselves, just to rile people up. I'm not saying that what he said wasn't racist in itself, or even that it was acceptable to say it (I agree with an eye for an eye mentality in generally, but it doesn't make the individual acts in and of themselves any less vulgar).Originally Posted by Nasarian Altimeros
You're really stretching out the whole "benefit of the doubt" thing with that rationalization. A guy is up infront of a bunch of people getting teased and his response "just to rile people up" was to flip out and make several highly offensive racial comments. Just to rile people up. Sure.
His initial statement was clearly designed to shock them into shutting up. It seemed he thought he had succeeded as well, since he tired to return to his act straight after the initial bout of racial slurs. Everything after that was just a result of him not knowing what the hell to do when he realize that no one was going to let him down for it, causing an unfortunate decision of continuing down the same path.
I'm not even close ton convinced.
Because you know, you're conclusion that Kramer is a racist bigot is a ton more logical than he lost it at some asshole and things got out of hand because he chose the wrong thing to say.
To quote my first post:
What that means is, it's entirely possible that he said what he did because he knew it would piss the guy off more than anything else. I honestly don't see why people can't use insults that they don't believe in themselves, just to rile people up. I'm not saying that what he said wasn't racist in itself, or even that it was acceptable to say it (I agree with an eye for an eye mentality in generally, but it doesn't make the individual acts in and of themselves any less vulgar).How do you know what his intentions were? It's not so clear as to what his intentions were, because we can not vouch for his actions. None of us are in his shoes. It doesn't really matter what his intention was, because it still doesn't mean he isn't racist. Honestly, I don't really see the point in defending someone who acts like that... but meh.
I'm not defending him. I thought we established this when I said 'I'm not saying that what he said wasn't racist in itself, or even that it was acceptable to say'.
You pretty much established your stance when you said that what he said was racist, but doesn't make him a racist. If that makes any sense and you never elaborated on that either. I'm still waiting.
I'm glad you agree.
Good God, it's like 8 posts up
I read that post already. What are you trying to prove? I think we should agree to disagree unless you want to explain how he isn't racist then maybe we can continue this debate.
It's right there.
Explain to me why this isn't a valid explanation as to how someone can say something racist without being racist themselves.
Because, (as I've said before) you can't justify the racism in a person it takes to make them want to say those things. The heckler was a jerk, but no one forced "Kramer" to say the things he said unless by some rare circumstance he were held at gun point and forced to sput off racial slurs. Unless that is the case, then that came out of his big racist head. Who knows what intentions he had and who cares if his intention was to get him angry. He went about it the wrong way by saying things like "See what happens when you interupt a white man". Give me a break. The fact of the matter is that he's a racist whether you care to admit it, or not and that's an unfortunate problem in today's society that people some people seem to take lightly in this thread.It's right there.
Explain to me why this isn't a valid explanation as to how someone can say something racist without being racist themselves.
In order to be racist he has to believe that white people are superior to other races, or in this case, that black people are inferior to white people. If he said what he did simply because he knew it was the easiest way to insult the man, then it doesn't reflect a racist mentality. I mean really, your acting as if people never say things they don't believe in. Ever.
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