Quote Originally Posted by Vincent, Thunder God View Post
I think it's even more sad that you don't think 30 000 gun-related deaths (730 of which were accidents) aren't enough to see the problems with your gun laws. To me, one innocent death is more than enough, even if deaths are an enivatable part of our lives. To me, any way to cut down on innocent deaths are more important than feeding American paranoia with gun ownership.
Don't presume I'm American. I'm not; I'm British and I live in Britain. And let me tell you, this country is going to hell. The police can't keep people safe. The government are a pretty darn big threat to freedom and rights at this time. There are a lot of crimes committed by violent, sociopathic, practically feral children and teenagers. There is no reasoning with them, there is no way to be safe - except to be capable of defending yourself. But they don't care about laws, so they carry guns, and knives, and other things law-abiding citizens are not permitted to carry. Which brings me nicely to a point about criminals and guns;

If guns are illegal, most people won't carry/own them. Criminals will, because criminals don't care that it is illegal to do so.

Maybe I don't agree with rebellion because I don't think your government is out of line enough to justify the deaths a rebellion would cause.
Maybe deaths are a secondary consideration to principles.

Maybe I think there are safer ways to rebel, like protesting, or peaceful grassroots organzing.
Maybe you don't know what rebellion entails.

Maybe my government is so well-functioning that I find rebellion against a democracy an odd notion.
... aren't you Canadian? And you think your country is a well-functioning democracy? :chuckle:

Maybe I think that many forms of leadership naturally corrupt over time, and that your possible rebellion wouldn't really improve leadership.
And I'd agree with that. The threat of open, armed revolt is a pretty darn good incentive to make sure governments do not overstep their jurisdictions.

There wouldn't be enough people to fuel your cause, and the new government is far beyond your costs to initiate. With all these problems, I find it odd someone of your age and maturity would entertain the notion.
I'm not, you might note, actually planning a rebellion. Nor is nik or, as best I can tell, anybody else in this thread. But the possibility of a tyrannical, undemocratic government coming about is a very real one - look at the civil rights violations committed by both Blair and Bush over the last five years. Not enough to justify rebellion - yet.

But it really doesn't matter what I think about that. It's common sense that saving innocent lives is more important than guns for a faulty rebellion.
And saving innocent lives is exactly what guns do, which you will find more than adequately backed up by the Kleck Study. http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kleck.study.html

Also please stop the really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking., the possibility of rebellion is only ONE reason for gun ownership, don't make out like it's the only one and we're arguing in favor of firearms for some uncertain future possibility and all else be damned. We're arguing for that, but also a bunch of other stuff.