Such as?Originally Posted by Timerk
Such as?
All along the way, very few bosses are given context unless they figure into the main...I guess you could call it a storyline. Like many action games, the bosses in FFXII are simply there to give you something to do once you finish a level or area, I don't think it should really be that way in a series like FF which prides itself so much on telling a story,
Reading boss bios in the Primer will explain most bosses, not that it reduces their WTF factor.
I got it a few days after the launch day (or maybe it was the day after launch? xD I don't remember). I was struggling along for awhile, but after getting to the third form of the final boss, I can say that I really enjoy this game. The storytelling is vastly different from the other FFs, but that's not a bad thing. I don't know why people are complaining that the characters don't have enough development, they aren't just brick walls. This isn't a novel, this is a video game. Go read a novel if you want characters that are as deep as a well. I personally found the characters' motivations pleasant enough, even if the story seems to focus on Ashe most of the time after awhile.
However, the real shining point of the game for me is it's exploration and atmosphere. The battle system is nice and everything, but the sheer expansiveness of the towns and dungeon areas is mind-blowing. And, alot of dungeons have great puzzles and very good surreal atmospheres (like the (SPOILER) Great Crystal and the Pharos for example). There's also so much to do outside of the main story, I'm at 63 hours or so and I haven't even messed with any hunts or optional areas since the Lhusu mines.
The soundtrack is very nice. As some have mentioned before, some of the tunes aren't memorable. But compositionally, the music is of exceptional quality. The music fits the environments well, although I found the event music to be lacking as it just recycles different dungeon themes which I didn't think fit the drama of some particular moments. But besides that, this is a good Sakimoto soundtrack.
Anyway, I'm just currently getting LP for a few more licenses, then I'm going to try to beat the final boss again. I can't believe I missed Hastega. :/
It is a reflection of the sloppy storytelling that the battles are not set up in the narrative, so the fact that they are in the primer just isn't enough.
But you said "there are parts of FFXII where you will enter a new area, fight a boss, and leave without ever knowing WTF just happened." Which is not true. Each dungeon is set up as to why you're going there, what you're going to try to do/find there, etc. So basically, you're just nitpicking because some of the bosses in the dungeons aren't given a bunch of backstory? The main bosses are developed; I couldn't care less if others along the way aren't. Those happen in every single RPG ever.
Neither are normal encounters (and almost all bosses for that matter) in most RPGs; should I start complaining that some random Rabbit isn't given a full backstory, explaining how it has to support its wife and children and has resorted to killing other Rabbits to survive because of a very twisted and needless biological imperative to survive by eating, sleeping, and reproducing? Yeah, because I want to hear everyone's life story, including the final boss.
I don't care about you. I want to kill you! I want to hit the X button after being guided by the D-Pad, mash the R2, Square, Triangle, and X buttons until my arm is bloody and dislocated, bash my controller into the ground when I can't one hit kill bosses, and drink your friggin blood. Because that's what we do:CRAB CAKES AND FOOTBALLRPG-ness.
Like I said before, everywhere you went in FFX you got backstory as to why you were there, and detail about a couple of the characters. By comparison, most of FFXII is made up of generic fetch missions that don't really serve much purpose except to move you into the next area. I suppose it is subjective as to how much this bothers you, but that kind of mindless fighting/grinding does not appeal to me. Personally, the whole reason I love games like FF is that they create a cohesive world with history and context, the whole 'role playing' in rpg. Bosses can be more than just random obstacles, but only if you put in the time to integrate them into the story, that is just not done in FFXII, so instead we get a bunch of 'angry spirits' and junk like that. The primer entry for one boss says 'none alive know it's meaning or purpose,' I have to agree, and say that is also true for most of the bosses in the game.
Like I said, this lack of context might not be a problem for you, but for me it goes against why I personally play rpg's. Seriously, even the last boss feels just thrown in there, like they put the names of all the evil npc's in a hat and pulled one out. This problem really isn't just limited to the bosses though, when you create a story as flimsy as the one FFXII tells, it is just impossible to develop much of anything, be it the enemies or the main characters. FFXII does somethings right, but it fails on so many basic levels as an rpg, it barely even fits in the genre, much less as an entry in a flagship series. At some point, people are going to have to start being honest about that, especially once the 'new car smell' wears off of XII and people start trying to figure out what the heck happened.
Well, I just beat it. What a great ending.
Do the bosses honestly bug you that much?
In all honesty, I don't know where this 'lack of depth' thing people are complaining about is stemming from. I found plenty of depth in the game, and certainly enough depth in the monsters. If anything, this game has more backstory and history to it's individual world than many of the FFs I've played in awhile (which may or may not have something to do with being set in Ivalice). I mean, yeah, there were alot of monsters that weren't explained, but they didn't need to be explained. Rafflesia doesn't need to have a 10-minute cutscene explaining why its father never gave it a hug when it was a child.
Anyway, I don't really see why this is a big deal...but to each their own.
If you define back story as "We have to go through here before we can get to this place".
I'm mean honestly, FFX's plot can be described as 50 hours of "Are we there yet?" Also, the area's were only explained cause Tidus had never been to these places; in FFXII, your party is more informed about their world, so it would be stupid to have a damn cutscene every time you enter a new area just so you could have Basch or Fran explain that this is such and such place. In that context, it would be poor writing to have it explained in a cutscene. The Beastery guide was a better choice, cause it allowed you to not break the illusion of the world.
Also, what monsters are explained in FFX? Outside of Sin and the Aeons, I don't remember any boss having some unique or interesting moment that completely defined their very purpose for being there.
I understand that you don't care for the game and I'm fine with that, so let's just leave it at that.
True beauty exists in things that last only for a moment.
Current Mood: And it's been a long December and there's reason to believe. Maybe this year will be better than the last. I can't remember all the times I tried to tell myself. To hold on to these moments as they pass...
I fail to see where your problem with this game is then. FFXII has THE most cohesive and detailed world of any game in the series and possibly any game that I've ever played.
As has already been said, every boss doesn't need some huge exposition on why it does what it does. Sometimes it's plenty for it to just be there getting in the way of your progress. It's an RPG convention that's been around a long time, and if it really bothers you so much in this game, then I fail to see how you can be much of an RPG fan at all. You must hate just about every RPG ever made because every single one I've ever played does exactly the same thing.
I love it. It's a toss up between this and FFX International as my favorite. I still never did beat Penance.
I can't wait to fight Yiazmat in this one, makes Omega look weak.
All my guys are on 40 now about to fight Cid the first time.
Dan
Even if every other RPG in the world did give big important backstories to their bosses, it's still not something that defines whether a game is an RPG or not.
Yeah, because most RPGs aren't just exactly that.
But you're playing an RPG; as much as you say your intentions are different from other peoples', they usually aren't. I fail to see how this should bother you; if you were interested in RPGs in the first place, you either have great experience in front of the TV, or you care enough to play it. If you wanted cohesive, read LotR.I suppose it is subjective as to how much this bothers you, but that kind of mindless fighting/grinding does not appeal to me.
Like I said, this lack of context might not be a problem for you, but for me it goes against why I personally play rpg's.
Have you played half of the Final Fantasies? It's all random obstacles with a stitched together world involving a bunch of nobodies who decide to save the world after they realize that their lust for revenge against a boss will inevitably lead them to do the same thing.Personally, the whole reason I love games like FF is that they create a cohesive world with history and context, the whole 'role playing' in rpg. Bosses can be more than just random obstacles, but only if you put in the time to integrate them into the story, that is just not done in FFXII,
Even good literature needs some element of WTF or mystery. If you knew everything, it would be incredibly boring. Even in FFX you know not everything.so instead we get a bunch of 'angry spirits' and junk like that. The primer entry for one boss says 'none alive know it's meaning or purpose,' I have to agree, and say that is also true for most of the bosses in the game.
I kill stuff, get money (in the form of leethax lewt), sell it, buy stuff, kill more stuff, rinse, repeat, and listen to a story along the way. Where does it fail on the basic levels, if that's what you so claim? Diablo II is an RPG. Does nothing that you state that it does, unless you read the instruction manual (like I'm going to do that; I'm American, gotta git' 'ir done!).but it fails on so many basic levels as an rpg, it barely even fits in the genre, much less as an entry in a flagship series.
*takes out earpiece*At some point, people are going to have to start being honest about that, especially once the 'new car smell' wears off of XII and people start trying to figure out what the heck happened.
I'm going to tell you something that I have told no one else.
I hate Final Fantasy. It's not the wastefulness, or the greed, or the ignorance. It's the smell.
I didn't understand what you were trying to sayBut you're playing an RPG; as much as you say your intentions are different from other peoples', they usually aren't. I fail to see how this should bother you; if you were interested in RPGs in the first place, you either have great experience in front of the TV, or you care enough to play it. If you wanted cohesive, read LotR..
You have to fight a plant boss in both FFX and FFXII, let's compare:
In FFX you fight the Sin Spawn outside of Kilika temple. You learn more about Sin Spawn here, and that Sin always comes back for them, a concept which is integrated into a major plotpoint later on. It gives you a sense of the terror Sin spreads through Spira, and how Spirans always must be on guard and never rest.
In FFXII you fight Rafflesia...then you move on to an enchanted field...
Yeah.
You may not notice things like this, you might not even care, but I do.
Is this such a big deal? Maybe not for most people, but when you combine it with the absolute lack of coherent character motivation and weak storyline, it all adds up to create a feeling of detachment that just isn't there with other FF games, the Zelda series, or even Chrono Trigger.
Other points:
-Tidus' lack of knowledge about Spira was a plot device, so it wasn't an accident, it was put in there specifically to help provide exposition. Penelo looked like she was going to fill this role by asking questions of Fran, but it never really happened. That is a shame, it would have given both of them more screentime and clear roles.
-I just can't see how a game which puts as little emphasis on character development as FFXII can be considered an rpg, so I will always think of it as an action-adventure game with some rpg elements. This may not be right, but I can't get my head around it any other way.
I don't hate FFXII, and I have been playing it since launch, but if you are talking about its legacy, or where it ranks with other FF's...I don't think very high.
YMMV, and hopefully does.
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