For you launchies, a month later

[Renmiri]

Actually, outside of that one Vaan scene, I still, never really felt like the plot was "telegraphed". Also, I felt FFXII has done a better job using body language and facial expressions than other games. But, to each their own I guess

Aye, facial movement is good like you say. I have only 2 nits to pick about XII graphics and technology: It is slow to load and Vaan's ribs are... ewww!
But the "telegraphing the plot" can be seen all over: The Archadian Senate (SPOILER)pressuring the King and the guy goes and summarizes "you are making me choose between my son and my Kingdom". Well DUH! Baltier telling Ashe (SPOILER)I left because I couldn't stand seeing him like this, Vaan (SPOILER)Forgiving Basch in heartbeat without even asking for details on the story, Fran telling (SPOILER)Her sister that better she tells Mrjim to stay, since she is an exile already

Yuna's attitude was very poignant to me because my nephew Christopher, whom I changed diapers 18 years ago had just shipped to Iraq "because it is the right thing to do" and I just couldn't stand the idea of having him killed there for a war I had serious doubts about and saw a mountain of lies, not the sacred mission he saw. Yuna and Tidus / Rikku were going through the exact same experience. (Chris is still alive BTW, praise be to Yevon )

I just want more critiques of FFXII alone with examples from within the game. I hate when people compare their games to their favorites.... as opposed to the game just being poorly done.

I will admit I did do that, but on another tread. Here in this thread and with me being later in the game too, I found a lot more positive things to say, which made the weak writing all the more glaring.

...the real problem I think you have, is that you need to realize that FFXII is story driven. FFX is a character driven piece. I personally feel it had a lousy cast and that's why I don't care for it's story, and as you have said yourself, it's something I feel SE mastered a long time ago was their ability to create gripping characters and plots.

Perhaps... But cards telling the story ? Or 20 minutes long FMVs ? Not to my taste

I know more about the Mi'hen Highroad than Ivalice.

That ain't right.

Indeed! A bit of Ivalice's story is on the little cards on Bestiary. But not enough and not to my taste. Cards ?!?!? This is Final Fantasy not Mortal Combat! That puts the FFXII is plot centric idea to rest BTW. What center is that that is relegated to little tidbits hidden in a 3rd level menu ?

.FFXII is designed to be like the older games (by older we mean pre-FFVI). I began to really think about it as I played, and started to notice how many similarities it had to FFV.

Can't comment on that, haven't played the older batch yet.

.I feel it is a story driven piece where the characters are given enough back story and personality to give the player a reason to sympathize with them and enough motivation to see it through. Their personalities are not shown to be as strong cause like the older games, it's a RPG.

Role playing does not mean watching a fully written character with a distinct personality go through his own personal trials and tribulations. If that was the case, movies and books would be role playing as well. Role Playing (in context of RPGs) is about assuming the role of a character. The characters are designed so the player can relate to them and play the game as them. That's why story scenes are carefully written so that the characters should be portraying the feelings of the players themselves.

Aye, agreed on the RPG thing. Which is why all the "telegraphing the plot" on XII annoyed me so much. It spoiled that aspect for me. I felt Vaan's feelings were forced on me, I wanted to create my own, based on the story, not have them told to me.

It may explain why I love Lady Ashe so much cause I could feel her personal struggle about gaining and using the nethicite. I could better relate to the scene than just watch Yuna constantly defend her desire to be a summoner cause according to character "it was the right thing to do"

Ashe's inner struggle and personality was just about the only exception to the weak writing and even then a bit of the issue "telegraphed" to my taste. But yes, her character is a bit better done than the rest, no wonder you like it so much!

There's a human element to the characters that is difficult to capture. I feel the writer's did it because they allowed us players to finally assume the roles of the characters themselves. Perhaps you never even thought about it this way. Chances are you will not agree. You seem to enjoy the character driven pieces better

On the contrary. It is my main objection to the characters being "dumped" on us players fully made as it is on XII. I hate it when someone tells me how I should feel

FFX was notorious for this...

I never felt it but then again, we're talking about XII on it's own merits, are we not ?

BTW, I have the Jahara FMV uploaded to Youtube, where you can see Vaan telling us exactly how he feels (to never worry about it again). Have look if you want to revisit that scene (full of spoilers), it has pretty sharp graphics, I lucked out finding a way to rip almost perfect FMV scenes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ya4AMfjLOM

Oh, and Vaan's ribs, my pet peeve with the graphics