It would be pretty cool if Tolkien defended homosexuality, though; this would make me respect him even more.Originally Posted by Breine
It would be pretty cool if Tolkien defended homosexuality, though; this would make me respect him even more.
No, not gay. He just had a genuine love and affection for Frodo because they were such close friends and because Frodo treated him as an equal. If the love that Sam had for Frodo was not there, the movie would have ended far sooner than it did. The only reason the Fellowship succeeded is because Sam was there and his love existed.
That could be up to some debate. Wilde had relations with, and was married to, a woman at one point in his life. Sure, his downfall was because of homosexual activities, but that does necessariliy make him straight out gay. Bisexual, maybe. Socratic was the term he himself used to describe his sexual orientation, however. Really, he just had a love for beauty. At least, that is the idea I got from his works.NO. Jesus I hate it when people say this, and they always do. Oscar Wilde, unlike John Ronald Reuld Tol-ki-en, was gay, if I recall correctly. So he'd have had more reason to portray his people (Dorian Gray etc etc etc) gay than otherwise.
I think people just are not used to seeing two men have an emotional connection like that, although I would say that Sam is portayed a bit more submissive than I would like in the movie. That said, it is his love for Frodo that saves the world, and what could be stronger than that?
Frodo's just his best friend that he has an undying loyalty too.
Look at it this way, Sam's all "Frodo, Frodo" until Frodo doesn't trust him because of Gollum then he's just "I'M ALL ALONE" in which he's apparently not all frodo'd up anymore.
You can't ungay that quickly, jeez. Plus he was after Rosie since the first one at the very begining.
Yeah. But, who cares.. he's still one of the best writers this world has ever seenIt would be pretty cool if Tolkien defended homosexuality, though; this would make me respect him even more.
devil man, it would seem you hate sam!!!
i love sam (not literally thanks) and thats harsh, why would he be gay?just because he stays with Frodo, like a loyal friend, hes never had any "hmmm, what a sexy beast" looks towards Frodo
I am not a man
Sam and Frodo represent friendship between classes of people during hard times, and the hope that spawns out of that friendship. Sam is initially a servant to Frodo, but becomes far more as the story progresses. His dedication to Frodo is one of love between friends. He will do anything to ensure that Frodo reaches his goal, partly because he is Frodo's friend and partly because he has hope that there is a life waiting for him back in the Shire.
Sam is so upset in the scene where Gollum tricks Frodo into believing Sam ate all of their rations because Gollum's success signifies multiple things. Among them is the fact that Frodo is so out of it due to his burden, he has forgotten who he can trust and who he should trust. It also breaks Sam off from his only connection to his home.
Nothing that takes place between the two characters signifies anything about an illicit relationship. The only relationship in the entire trilogy that comes close is the relationship between Eowyn and Aragorn, but even then Aragorn remains true to stupid, stupid, stupid Arwen. I hate Arwen so much.
Signature by rubah. I think.
Oooo? How come?
Do you hate Arwen in LotR book or do you hate the Liv Tyler Arwen of the films?
What be the reason for this grudge?
The only gay pairing of LotR is GollumxThe Ring (the ring is male, naturally).
Yes, thank you, Peter Jackson for not staying true to the book and what is ultimately not a better decisi0on.
Clearly not. He goes on to have alot and I mean ALOT of children with his wife, Mistress Rose.Is Samwise Gamgee gay?
No, it's was Tolkien's way of representing the comradery of rank and suboordinate.Do you think that Sam's affections for Frodo were Professor J R R Tolkein's way of discussing homosexuality?
Yeah, I know that sounds gay.
That you're immature, like most thirteen year olds?So what do ya think?
No.
Umm, no, Mariadoc is Frodo's second cousin (or immediate cousin, I have no access to my books and family trees at this time). Peregrin is Frodo's third cousin (or something twice removed).
Umm, no.
And yes, anyone can find meanings in Tolkien's work, because Tolkien's work can be interpreted to mean everything, including changes of style and the passage of time. Many will find something new in Tolkien's work. It's really part of his skill and awesomeness.
Yes, it is disappointing. One could also assume that she hates Lúthien, too, because Lúthien is only FAR more annoying than Arwen is. Fortunately for her, Beren is also ten times cooler than Aragorn. Finrod Felagund for the win!Oooo? How come? Do you hate Arwen in LotR book or do you hate the Liv Tyler Arwen of the films? What be the reason for this grudge?
Thank you, come again.
That you're immature, like most thirteen year olds?
QFT imho :monster2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Took_clan
It's not the greatest layout, but it helps with the determination of their relationship to Frodo. The Took Clan's family tree is superior to the Brandybuck's. In terms of information given.
Anyway, Merry and Pippin are first cousins to each other.
I hate book Arwen. She sits and does nothing but look attractive. Why on earth would Aragorn want to be with someone who sits. He wants to be with Eowyn, but he lets himself believe he and Arwen will work. And they don't, not really. After he dies, she gets pouty and runs around in Galadriel's forest until they finally decide to let her go home.
I don't really know a whole lot about their story, as I haven't read everything in the histories. Also, I could be very wrong on what I'm saying, because it's been awhile. I just hate Arwen so much.
Signature by rubah. I think.
Thanks. My link also contains a link to the family tree. Somewhere.
That link was not directed towards you, by the way. You'll love the Silmarillion, though. If inaction makes you sad, then what the Valar do will DEFINITELY make you happy. Not reading the Silmarillion can cause some confusion and omission of the backstory, so I'll do what I can to explain this.
Anyways, as it turns out, after they are wed, they do work, because Arwen forsakes the immortality aspect of her mixed heritage, and dies. Sometimes, life isn't worth living if your husband/wife is dead.
Arwen, being the result of both an Elf and a Man; well, technically, a 15/32ths Elf and a three-quarters female, the deal that her ancestor, Eärendil made with the Valar (for the sake of his wife, Elwing). It was that all those who were born of both Elven and Human blood were able to choose which of the houses they could go under; complete with benefits, and not-so-much benefits.
Elros (from whom Aragorn was descended) decided that he and all of his spawn would be Human, on their behalf. His brother, Elrond (LOL ARWEN'S DAD LOL), chose to be Elven, with the decision of his children left to their discretion. All of Elrond's children choose, eventually, to be Human.
Should Arwen have remained an Elf (or simply, someone with a longer span of life), it would not work; precedent, Erendis and Aldarion of Númenor. It really does seem that if you are part Elven, you will eventually be doomed to be Human, with the exception of Eärendil, Elwing, and Elrond. All other half-elvens were either killed by this time, or decended from Elros.
I hope that clears things up. Even if Arwen wanted to act, the inability to do anything during the War of the Ring and after, was the result of a prohibitive action taken by her father, or her own choice. Either way, Éowyn ends up with Faramir, which is by far, a better match.
Maybe Tolkein was just trying to make her like some kind of stereotypical, perfect woman of the 19th Century. Y'know, she should be 'Hot, look good all the time, not answer back to the main man of the house, should brush her golden hair, be the stay-at-home-soccer-Mom-who-bakes-cookies' type of girl.
I thought Arwen was alright. Perhaps Tolkein just wanted her to be very classical.
I personally think Rosie is the hottest chick in the LotR. Even if she is a Hobbit (Devil Man not too fussy)
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