Necron......Filler or Final Boss?

[Elpizo]

I believed the Necron = Iifa Tree, but I have ONE problem with it. Mainly: Its desire to return everything to zero, instead of sorting out the souls like Garland wanted the Iifa Tree to do. Why would the tree suddenly change its mind? Why would it even want to face Zidane and co instead of just sorting out their souls?

It was created to sort out souls. Why would it suddenly go a Neo Exdeath?

This is in SoS FFIX FAQ

"*Point: Garland says he wanted to place all creatures into a world in whichlife was combined with death, while Necron spoke of returning all life into aworld without life. That wouldn't suggest similar goals.

*Response: Once again, not necessarily. This is what Garland says concerning his ultimate goal for living beings:

"To live is to give life meaning, yet one must take others' lives to
survive..."
"A mature civilization becomes aware of this paradox..."
"Terra's souls will sleep until they forget such nonsense. They will begin a new life in a new dimension."
"It's a world in which life and death become one..."
"That is the dimension in which we are meant to live, as beings that
transcend life and death!"


This is what Necron says concerning its intentions:

"I exist for one purpose..."
"To return everything back to the zero world, where there is no life and no crystal to give life."
"In a world of nothing, fear does not exist. This is the world that all life
desires."


Necron speaks of placing life in a dimension of no life, with no Crystal to give life. Does that necessarily mean that all things are non-existant? Would souls cease to exist simply because they weren't inhabiting living vessels?
Or would they be without life, and, thus, without death, as well? Would they not have transcended life and death, as Garland sought to accomplish?
Granted, this is only speculation, but to transcend life and death would mean to be beyond both, and from my own interpretation, for there to be no life would also mean there would be no death. To exist without either, but beyond their reach.

However, I believe that the true nature of this matter is this:

Recall that Final Fantasy IX is a game that pays tribute to past Final Fantasy games and that its final boss battle is already paying heavy tribute to Final Fantasy IV's final battle. It's also paying tribue to V's, however, in that the concept of the Darkness of Eternity (also Necron's Japanese name) is akin to the concept of the Void from Final Fantasy V's final battle with Neo Ex-Death, and the manner in which they introduce themselves is also very similar (as will be pointed out further in the next section).

Supposing that Necron essentially became the same as the Void of Final Fantasy V -- keeping in mind that the Void itself was a manufactured entity only 1,000 years old and not simply a being that always was -- Necron, aware of Garland's view of life (that it exists hand-in-hand with death and that life is death itself as life must cause death in order to endure) due to Garland being his maker, chose to test the validity of Garland's hypothesis, and so it chose to observe Kuja, another of Garland's creations, and the one that Garland had intended to work in rapport with the Tree, Kuja inciting war and death, rendering souls free of their bodies, with the Iifa Tree then intercepting those souls and preventing them from being added back to Gaia's collective.

After witnessing Kuja's self-destructive actions that took place on a cosmic scale, Necron would have concluded that Garland's theory was correct ("...Now, the theory is undeniable." "Kuja's action proves it. All things live to perish.") and then took the purpose for which Garland had created it further than was ever intended, choosing to expand its range of negation beyond just Gaia's souls and to the universe itself, deciding to -- like the Void -- end all existance, quite possibly including its own, the same as the Void had intended. If ever a being that existed for the purpose that the Iifa Tree had been given were to expand its range of function further, this would be the logical form of expansion: Extending its sights beyond Gaia and to the universe at-large. This is even arguably the only logical evolution that Necron could deterine for the purpose for which it had been created.

*Applauds* Very good defence for your believes about this subject. Makes sence and could be true, but ultimately, only the creators (may) know what Necron actually is. Still, I take of my hat, for this is well explained.

Well, there still can be other options. Personally, I think the creators wanted a more 'developped' Neo Exdeath. Neo just appears, has 1 line and then you destroy him (or loose). Never was it actually explained why he wanted to zero everything. With theories such as these, Necron can indeed be understood, and with these theories, it also becomes clear that Necron INDEED has a storyline connection and is not just a powerful being coming out of nowhere thrown in the game for the sake of being in the game.

[The Crystal]

I believed the Necron = Iifa Tree, but I have ONE problem with it. Mainly: Its desire to return everything to zero, instead of sorting out the souls like Garland wanted the Iifa Tree to do. Why would the tree suddenly change its mind? Why would it even want to face Zidane and co instead of just sorting out their souls?

It was created to sort out souls. Why would it suddenly go a Neo Exdeath?

This is in SoS FFIX FAQ

"*Point: Garland says he wanted to place all creatures into a world in whichlife was combined with death, while Necron spoke of returning all life into aworld without life. That wouldn't suggest similar goals.

*Response: Once again, not necessarily. This is what Garland says concerning his ultimate goal for living beings:

"To live is to give life meaning, yet one must take others' lives to
survive..."
"A mature civilization becomes aware of this paradox..."
"Terra's souls will sleep until they forget such nonsense. They will begin a new life in a new dimension."
"It's a world in which life and death become one..."
"That is the dimension in which we are meant to live, as beings that
transcend life and death!"


This is what Necron says concerning its intentions:

"I exist for one purpose..."
"To return everything back to the zero world, where there is no life and no crystal to give life."
"In a world of nothing, fear does not exist. This is the world that all life
desires."


Necron speaks of placing life in a dimension of no life, with no Crystal to give life. Does that necessarily mean that all things are non-existant? Would souls cease to exist simply because they weren't inhabiting living vessels?
Or would they be without life, and, thus, without death, as well? Would they not have transcended life and death, as Garland sought to accomplish?
Granted, this is only speculation, but to transcend life and death would mean to be beyond both, and from my own interpretation, for there to be no life would also mean there would be no death. To exist without either, but beyond their reach.

However, I believe that the true nature of this matter is this:

Recall that Final Fantasy IX is a game that pays tribute to past Final Fantasy games and that its final boss battle is already paying heavy tribute to Final Fantasy IV's final battle. It's also paying tribue to V's, however, in that the concept of the Darkness of Eternity (also Necron's Japanese name) is akin to the concept of the Void from Final Fantasy V's final battle with Neo Ex-Death, and the manner in which they introduce themselves is also very similar (as will be pointed out further in the next section).

Supposing that Necron essentially became the same as the Void of Final Fantasy V -- keeping in mind that the Void itself was a manufactured entity only 1,000 years old and not simply a being that always was -- Necron, aware of Garland's view of life (that it exists hand-in-hand with death and that life is death itself as life must cause death in order to endure) due to Garland being his maker, chose to test the validity of Garland's hypothesis, and so it chose to observe Kuja, another of Garland's creations, and the one that Garland had intended to work in rapport with the Tree, Kuja inciting war and death, rendering souls free of their bodies, with the Iifa Tree then intercepting those souls and preventing them from being added back to Gaia's collective.

After witnessing Kuja's self-destructive actions that took place on a cosmic scale, Necron would have concluded that Garland's theory was correct ("...Now, the theory is undeniable." "Kuja's action proves it. All things live to perish.") and then took the purpose for which Garland had created it further than was ever intended, choosing to expand its range of negation beyond just Gaia's souls and to the universe itself, deciding to -- like the Void -- end all existance, quite possibly including its own, the same as the Void had intended. If ever a being that existed for the purpose that the Iifa Tree had been given were to expand its range of function further, this would be the logical form of expansion: Extending its sights beyond Gaia and to the universe at-large. This is even arguably the only logical evolution that Necron could deterine for the purpose for which it had been created.

*Applauds* Very good defence for your believes about this subject. Makes sence and could be true, but ultimately, only the creators (may) know what Necron actually is. Still, I take of my hat, for this is well explained.

Well, there still can be other options. Personally, I think the creators wanted a more 'developped' Neo Exdeath. Neo just appears, has 1 line and then you destroy him (or loose). Never was it actually explained why he wanted to zero everything. With theories such as these, Necron can indeed be understood, and with these theories, it also becomes clear that Necron INDEED has a storyline connection and is not just a powerful being coming out of nowhere thrown in the game for the sake of being in the game.

Yeah, this theory is very good. Hell, the entire FAQ is good and make sense. Squall of SeeD really deserve applause for his work.
But unfortunately, some people in this forum think that their opinion is a fact, and when presented with evidences that prove the contrary, they just ignore the evidences.

[jammi567]

Of course. people are like that.

[Rippers]

okay i read the first 2 and a half pages of this thread and decided to put in my own bit.

first lets deal with the whole Necron and Zeromus thing. i personally dont think necron died. and zeromus is a perfect example to prove this is possible! Zemus died... then guess what? his spirit (aka zeromus) lived on (admittedly with the help of being consumed by hatred but nevertheless). if zemus can die but live on then why can necron not?

as to his purpose? it seems pretty obvious to me from just reading the game text. necron wants to return all stuff to void but he does not think it is time to do so. Kuja tries to destroy the Crystal. necron thinks "hrmm some dude just tried to destroy the Crystal" and cos hes probably a bit dim "hrmm does this mean that life has decided it doesnt want to go on?"

this also makes me think that necron isnt actually evil. i hate it when people say death is evil. its NECESSARY. some CAUSES of death are evil but DEATH ITSELF is not. if you think death is evil then does that mean your all in favour of a grossly over populated world?

necron is the embodiment of death. he thought that because some poofy ponce tried to destroy the crystal then all of life clearly desires extinction. made sense to him. in fact it even sounds like he was doin it because he thought everyone wanted it

"In a world of nothing, fear does not exist. This is the world that all life desires."

enforcing my idea that he isnt evil. he did it because he thought existence wanted destruction... he thought he was doing a service to the universe :P

so zidane and co kicked royal but, necron realised that "hrmm okay maybe life doesnt want out" and he probably imploded in a sulk cos it wasnt his time yet.

ps. i didnt mean it kuja, love ya really :P

[IsntFFIXGrand]

If you listened to what he said right before the battle, he is Death itself. He is only beat by your will to live. Besides he's easy to beat. Just equip a million status guard abilities, rapidly cast Curaga, Full-Life, Shock or Stock Break, Blizzaga, and Blizzaga Sword. He goes down easily..

[NeoCracker]

I really dought That Garland had the power to Create Necron.
And let's say that he really was created by Garland, what possible reason would he have for lying ot you at that point by saying he is eternal? When you can come up with a logical answer to that, then we'll talk SoS's theory.

[The Crystal]

I really dought That Garland had the power to Create Necron.
And let's say that he really was created by Garland, what possible reason would he have for lying ot you at that point by saying he is eternal? When you can come up with a logical answer to that, then we'll talk SoS's theory.

SoS Theory:

*Point: Necron says "I am eternal" when defeated. Would this not immediately disprove Necron as being the central mechanism of the Iifa Tree, seeing as how Garland created it?

*Response: Not necessarily. Necron says "I am eternal" upon being defeated, yes, but that does not necessarily mean that Necron was saying "I have always been and always will be." "Eternal" is ambiguous. It CAN mean "Always has been and always will be," but it can also mean "Having no end." In other words, Necron might have been saying "I will never perish." This certainly isn't a foreign declaration to villains upon their demise. For that matter, Zeromus, the final opponent of Final Fantasy IV, and the incarnation of Zemus' hatred, made a similar declaration at the moment of his own death:

(Zeromus' final words.)
Zeromus: I will not...perish...so long as evil...dwells in the hearts...of
mankind. G...gh... GRRRAAGH!

(Necron's final words.)
"This is not the end."
"I am eternal..."
"...as long as there is life and death..."


However, there's little question as to whether or not Zeromus was simply making a boast before his death, something which he did not anticipate.
Something else to keep in mind is that Final Fantasy IX was a game designed to pay tribute to past Final Fantasy games. The ending boss battles of Final Fantasy IV and IX are very similar in that in both the party is wiped out, only to be brought back from defeat by other party members lending their strength. Also in both cases, the defeated final foe declares their self-proclaimed eternal nature, despite all indication and the context of the situation suggesting it to not be the case.

For that matter, it should be noted that Soulcage, the Mist distributing
function of the Iifa Tree, also boasted that it would not be defeated by
Zidane and the others, despite it being destroyed when it actually fought them:

"I have seen the end of my thousand-year life, and it is not now."
'You cannot stop me."
"It is futile even to try."


While one might argue that it's a different situation because Soulcage's boast came before its battle with its killers, there's the obvious fact that such statements as "I am immortal! This cannot BE!" come from defeated villains on a regular basis, whether it be in stories outside of the Final Fantasy series or within it. A good example of such lines being used within the Final Fantasy series is Final Fantasy: Tactics, which uses such lines no less than four times during the course of the game:

(Note: These are all the dying words of the characters in question.)

Queklain:"I'm immortal...how can I be losing....? It's impossible. I can't... die...until he resurrects..."


Velius: "Whooooah!! They're just humans....!"


Elidibs: "This can't be happening... I'm not supposed to lose..."


Balk: "I'm...dying? I thought I'd risen over 'death'..."

[f f freak]

(Zeromus' final words.)
Zeromus: I will not...perish...so long as evil...dwells in the hearts...of
mankind. G...gh... GRRRAAGH!

It is never actually disproven that Zeromus is immortal considering after the party beat him the game ends so I don't class this as valid evidence. I could also say the exact same about Necron.

[NeoCracker]

Zemus did infact Die, Zeroumus is the incarnation of Hatred. You can't kill hatred. Zeromus appeared more as a form of Metaphor, saying as long as hatred exists, there will be another like me, or something to that effect.

And that is not a good enough reason Crystal. Thats stretching the meaning of words. Plus, how can Garland Create something Eternal? Also, why would he make it so powerful if it was only meant to sort the souls? It is a spiritual entity, so your party couldn't fight it under normal conditions, so making it powerful is completely pointless. Also, Kuja kills the party, if he isn't so omnipotent and was destroyed, how did he bring them back to life? Garland obviously doesn't have methods of doing that, otherwise he could have found a way to use NEcron to bring himself back, which he couldn't.

Also, the chose of the World eternal. If SoS was right, then why didn't just say he was immortal? Or everlasting? OR something else like that? It is doughtful that square would put in such a misleading phrase if they meant NEcron to be the Iifa tree. Also, FF has a strange habit of giving you an explanation for anything important by the end. It explains whats going on, the reasons behind everything and their motives, yet there is absolutely nothing but speculation from a fan to connect this. Two speaches shared many similaraties, so what? IT doesn't mean that they were at all connected. It sounds more likely that if Necron were able to watch Kuja, he could also watch Garland. Garlands speach seemed to echo the disire for humans to live withough fear and all that, and NEcron, not being human and obviously not fully understanding human though, he echoed Garlands speach to describe his goal.

HE didn't kill the party because that wasn't his goal. Lets say he's garlands creation and he actually intended to kill the party. He has control over souls and sorting them, he should have been able to easily eradicate the party with this ability, as they were nothing but souls. So even if he isn't all powerful, his power over souls could have crushed them. However, if his intent wasn't to kill them, but to test their will to live, as seems to be the generally excepted view, then Necron being the Iifa tree makes not sense. Either way, Eternal Being or Iifa tree, it would have easily destroyed the party, meaning it is far more logical that Eternal Being, is right.

[Jessweeee♪]

Hrm....well, I think they could have done something better than Necron, but it makes sense to me.

[The Crystal]

Zemus did infact Die, Zeroumus is the incarnation of Hatred. You can't kill hatred. Zeromus appeared more as a form of Metaphor, saying as long as hatred exists, there will be another like me, or something to that effect.

And that is not a good enough reason Crystal. Thats stretching the meaning of words. Plus, how can Garland Create something Eternal? Also, why would he make it so powerful if it was only meant to sort the souls? It is a spiritual entity, so your party couldn't fight it under normal conditions, so making it powerful is completely pointless. Also, Kuja kills the party, if he isn't so omnipotent and was destroyed, how did he bring them back to life? Garland obviously doesn't have methods of doing that, otherwise he could have found a way to use NEcron to bring himself back, which he couldn't.

Also, the chose of the World eternal. If SoS was right, then why didn't just say he was immortal? Or everlasting? OR something else like that? It is doughtful that square would put in such a misleading phrase if they meant NEcron to be the Iifa tree. Also, FF has a strange habit of giving you an explanation for anything important by the end. It explains whats going on, the reasons behind everything and their motives, yet there is absolutely nothing but speculation from a fan to connect this. Two speaches shared many similaraties, so what? IT doesn't mean that they were at all connected. It sounds more likely that if Necron were able to watch Kuja, he could also watch Garland. Garlands speach seemed to echo the disire for humans to live withough fear and all that, and NEcron, not being human and obviously not fully understanding human though, he echoed Garlands speach to describe his goal.

HE didn't kill the party because that wasn't his goal. Lets say he's garlands creation and he actually intended to kill the party. He has control over souls and sorting them, he should have been able to easily eradicate the party with this ability, as they were nothing but souls. So even if he isn't all powerful, his power over souls could have crushed them. However, if his intent wasn't to kill them, but to test their will to live, as seems to be the generally excepted view, then Necron being the Iifa tree makes not sense. Either way, Eternal Being or Iifa tree, it would have easily destroyed the party, meaning it is far more logical that Eternal Being, is right.

You can belive in whatever you want. But i cannot belive in a theory that have only ONE line to prove it. Sorry.

In my mind, this:
"In summary, with Garland and Necron expressing similar views on life, and Necron's own words showing that it was testing a theory involving that view of life before concluding that the view was accurate (which would make sense for it to do if Garland were its creator), we can possibly conclude the same point of origin for this belief. Further, with Garland suggesting that the true form of the Iifa Tree did not lie on the physical plane, and with Zidane and the others being killed in battle by Kuja only to find themselves confronted by a creature spouting views similar to Garland's and changing into the two colors of the Planets that the Iifa Tree served as a gateway between (blue for Gaia and red for Terra), as well as Necron sharing the same theme as the Iifa Tree, we can assume a possible connection to the Iifa Tree on Necron's part.
The death of the Tree following Necron's defeat allows us to confirm this."

Make much more sense than this:
"Necron is a cosmic being, because he said that he is eternal"

If i want to prove that you are wrong, i just have to find an explanation of why he said that he is eternal.
But if you want to prove that SoS is wrong, you have to explain, why Necron's face is similar to the faces in Oilvert, why he changed into the two colors of the planets that the Iifa Tree served as a gateway between, why he have views about life and death similar to Garland's, why the Iifa Tree died seconds or minutes after Necron's explosion, why he exploded instead of just going away, etc.

Proving that your theory is wrong, is much more easy than proving that SoS theory is wrong. And that means that SoS theory is probably, the most correct.

But in the end, all theories are valid, because they are just this, theories.

[NeoCracker]

The colors dont' mean much. IF he is in fact the cosmic being of life and death, changing between those two colors isn't unlikely. I already explained the views thing in my previous post. As for the Iifa tree dying, Kuja was in control of it at the end instead of Garland. The same thing could be said to happen because of Kuja's death. The one who controled it died, so the tree went with it.

As for the last part, just faded away would look stupid. FF has a thing about finishing flashy, so of course they will end FF IX in a flashy manner. Simpley going away isn't at all flashy or cool, dissapearing in a self implosion, however, is. The only thing I can't explain right now are the faces, but I should be nearing that point in fF IX again soon, and may or may not be able to think of something for that soon.

[Elpizo]

Well, even if Garland did not created Necron, they still could have worked together. That way Garland did not create something eternal and also that way Necron and Garland can still be related. Still, if Necron is not the spiritual core of the Iifa Tree, please explain why the Tree died just a few minutes after Necron's disappearance.

By the way, Kuja was created by Garland too, and Kuja was as powerful as to be able to teleport Zidane and co out of death. Garland possesed quite some knowledge and power, he even could destroy the most powerful Eidolon with ease, why wouldn't he be able to create something up to par with Necron? Garland even created the Iifa Tree so he could interrupt with the Soul Cycle of planets. That's quite some powerful stuff he can pull off, you know. Making an 'eternal' being doesn't seem like something he would never be able to do.

And the death speech of Necron doesn't really prove or disprove much. It's already pointed out many other badguys say similiar things. Why it may very well be that necron still existed even when the Iifa Tree died, it can also every well be that the Tree died because Necron had been defeated. It's impossible to tell, unless the game's creators tell us.

I guess people just really want Necron to be a very random Final Boss instead of indeed being in touch with the story more than people think...

[NeoCracker]

He wasn't random. And there would be no reason for him to help Garland unless Garland Created him.

Kuja was only as strong as he was because he absorbed the souls, that had nothing to do with Garland. Garland never made anything stronger than he was, unless you want to Count NEcron.

Its just none of the Necron=Iifa tree theories make much sense.

Also, Disrupting souls is quite the feet, but not even close to being an eternal being.

Edit: Okay, I looked back over NEcrons speach and this is what I found.

[qoute=Neoseeker FF IX Script] Voice: "I exist for one purpose... To return everything back to the
zero world, where there is no life and no crystal to give life.
In a world of nothing, fear does not exist. This is the world
that all life desires." [/qoute]

http://neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rlid=127002

If Garland Made him, that would not be his one purpose. His One Purpose would be to sort the souls, which has no real connection to Returning the world to nothing, or giving life what they desire. If SoS's theory is true, the only explanation for this is HE flat out lied, which there would be no point in doing.

[jammi567]

but if he had been following Kuja, watching him, thinking him as an example, then when kuja tried to distroy everything around him, necron thought that's what all life wanted.