Necron......Filler or Final Boss?

[VengefulRonin]

I like that idea.

[jammi567]

necron exploding and imploding and just dissapearing, is quite misleading but i believe necron only actually appeared when kuja destroyed the crystal.

kuja didn't distroy the crystal. if he did, then there wouldn't be a proper ending.

[The Crystal]

necron exploding and imploding and just dissapearing, is quite misleading but i believe necron only actually appeared when kuja destroyed the crystal.

necron wasn't just sitting there waiting for everyone to lose the will to live. he appeared when he was needed and dissapeared when he was no longer needed and he may yet return when it is time for him to reduce everything to the zero world.

The problem with your theory, is that Kuja didn't destroy the Crystal. He used Ultima against your party, not against the Crystal.
And like i said, if Necron was just retreating, he would just dissapear or go away. He would not explode/implode without any reason. The only evidence that you have, that Necron didn't die, is a quote from him. A quote that is very like what Zeromus said, but we know that Zeromus is already dead, so, why Necron cannot be dead too?
We have just a quote from him, saying that he is immortal. And we have a little video/cutscene showing his dead. What is more valid as an evidence?

[VengefulRonin]

necron exploding and imploding and just dissapearing, is quite misleading but i believe necron only actually appeared when kuja destroyed the crystal.

necron wasn't just sitting there waiting for everyone to lose the will to live. he appeared when he was needed and dissapeared when he was no longer needed and he may yet return when it is time for him to reduce everything to the zero world.

The problem with your theory, is that Kuja didn't destroy the Crystal. He used Ultima against your party, not against the Crystal.
And like i said, if Necron was just retreating, he would just dissapear or go away. He would not explode/implode without any reason. The only evidence that you have, that Necron didn't die, is a quote from him. A quote that is very like what Zeromus said, but we know that Zeromus is already dead, so, why Necron cannot be dead too?
We have just a quote from him, saying that he is immortal. And we have a little video/cutscene showing his dead. What is more valid as an evidence?

And tell me something, why does necron have to be dead just cuz zeromus is? If you hadnt noticed, Necron is not Zeromus. Quit acting like he is. And how do you know he didnt die? He imploded, his physical body collapsed in on itself. Just because his body went away does not mean he was killed. He's "the darkness of eternity", he's an entity, and most likely does not need a physical body to survive.

[The Crystal]

necron exploding and imploding and just dissapearing, is quite misleading but i believe necron only actually appeared when kuja destroyed the crystal.

necron wasn't just sitting there waiting for everyone to lose the will to live. he appeared when he was needed and dissapeared when he was no longer needed and he may yet return when it is time for him to reduce everything to the zero world.

The problem with your theory, is that Kuja didn't destroy the Crystal. He used Ultima against your party, not against the Crystal.
And like i said, if Necron was just retreating, he would just dissapear or go away. He would not explode/implode without any reason. The only evidence that you have, that Necron didn't die, is a quote from him. A quote that is very like what Zeromus said, but we know that Zeromus is already dead, so, why Necron cannot be dead too?
We have just a quote from him, saying that he is immortal. And we have a little video/cutscene showing his dead. What is more valid as an evidence?

And tell me something, why does necron have to be dead just cuz zeromus is? If you hadnt noticed, Necron is not Zeromus. Quit acting like he is. And how do you know he didnt die? He imploded, his physical body collapsed in on itself. Just because his body went away does not mean he was killed. He's "the darkness of eternity", he's an entity, and most likely does not need a physical body to survive.

And tell me something. If Necron wanted to kill the party, and he is THAT powerful, why he didn't use all this power to kill them? And if he just retreated in the end, why he choosed to blow up himself, instead of just go away?
Even if he didn't die, he was defeated. A being that can destroy the entire universe, was deffeated by a group of mortalls?!

And Garland said that what we see is only the physical part of the Iifa Tree, meaning that exist a spiritual part of it too. After Kuja kill the party in Crystal World they go to the spiritual world and find Necron there. And if you see Necron's face, you will note that his face is like the faces in the wall of that place where you fight Ark. And these faces, were created by Terrans.

[VengefulRonin]

And tell me something. If Necron wanted to kill the party, and he is THAT powerful, why he didn't use all this power to kill them? And if he just retreated in the end, why he choosed to blow up himself, instead of just go away?
Even if he didn't die, he was defeated. A being that can destroy the entire universe, was deffeated by a group of mortalls?!

And Garland said that what we see is only the physical part of the Iifa Tree, meaning that exist a spiritual part of it too. After Kuja kill the party in Crystal World they go to the spiritual world and find Necron there. And if you see Necron's face, you will note that his face is like the faces in the wall of that place where you fight Ark. And these faces, were created by Terrans.

He wanted to test their will to live, and in the end he got his ass beat because their will was not to enter his zero world, but to live.

So it's hard to believe that IX's "group of mortals" beat necron knowing how they defeated Garland and Kuja and the guardian forces? Uh huh...

I cant really tell what necron's face looks like because its all nice and pixelated and blurry cuz of the bad graphics. And why dont you take alook at Amano's depiction of Necron. You'll see necron looks NOTHING like the terran faces.

And i am tired of debating with you, because you've seen plenty of valid points that discredit your silly little opinion, and yet you still want to cling to it. So whatever, i'll let you have your opinion, mine has been stated plenty of times.

[Bahamut2000X]

And tell me something. If Necron wanted to kill the party, and he is THAT powerful, why he didn't use all this power to kill them?

As I already said. It would ruin the game. And Necron isn't able to destroy the universe, oh no he just has to break the crystal to do that. And yeesh if your complaining about his power, then pray tell why Kuja didn't Ultima your party at the start, since it seems to instantly one shot them. Or why he didn't kill them when he was blowing up Terra? When you can explain these in your "in-game logics" in a way that makes sense, then maybe I'll consider Necron's power being an issue too. Point being, there's other people who could of instantly killed them too and the reason they didn't is...IT'S A GAME! That is reason enough. There a fine line between logical yet neccesarry implementation, and downright absurd things to consider. What your thinking about his power to instantly kill is that very absurd thing to think and complain about.

A quote that is very like what Zeromus said, but we know that Zeromus is already dead, so, why Necron cannot be dead too?

The difference being that Zemus was an ordinary man. Well Lunarian whatever. >.> Who had quite a bit of power. Then with all of his power and hate he managed to hold onto life despite him dying. He came back and with all his power exploited it to transform into Zeromus. But in the end he's still a mortal. He was born of women from a womb. And lived, breathed, and ate like the rest of us. Necron on the other hand was the force of Death itself. He was not alive, nor dead. He is just him. He is immortal because of such, after all he HAS to be immortal (in the sense of time that is) because he has lived since the birth of life as he even said. So firstly he couldn't of been created by Garland as not only is he in an entirely another dimension, he also has been around a LOT longer then Terra and Garland ever were. And has been stated, Garland could barely keep himself and a planet alive, let alone a being that was death in and of itself.

So really comparing the 2 is hardly worthwhile as one is a mortal being that is essentially a human. The other an immortal reprensentation force of nature.

[VengefulRonin]

And tell me something, why does necron have to be dead just cuz zeromus is? If you hadnt noticed, Necron is not Zeromus. Quit acting like he is. And how do you know he didnt die? He imploded, his physical body collapsed in on itself. Just because his body went away does not mean he was killed. He's "the darkness of eternity", he's an entity, and most likely does not need a physical body to survive.

A quote that is very like what Zeromus said, but we know that Zeromus is already dead, so, why Necron cannot be dead too?

The difference being that Zemus was an ordinary man. Well Lunarian whatever. >.> Who had quite a bit of power. Then with all of his power and hate he managed to hold onto life despite him dying. He came back and with all his power exploited it to transform into Zeromus. But in the end he's still a mortal. He was born of women from a womb. And lived, breathed, and ate like the rest of us. Necron on the other hand was the force of Death itself. He was not alive, nor dead. He is just him. He is immortal because of such, after all he HAS to be immortal (in the sense of time that is) because he has lived since the birth of life as he even said. So firstly he couldn't of been created by Garland as not only is he in an entirely another dimension, he also has been around a LOT longer then Terra and Garland ever were. And has been stated, Garland could barely keep himself and a planet alive, let alone a being that was death in and of itself.

So really comparing the 2 is hardly worthwhile as one is a mortal being that is essentially a human. The other an immortal reprensentation force of nature.

Thank you! Someone intelligent agrees with me. And why am i still replying in this thread anyway? Haha, i'm such a dork. I wonder if any other final bosses created this much of a debate. O_O Although really it shouldnt be that much of a debate, except that we have a few stubborn people who like to think that Zeromus = Necron.

[Elpizo]

Necron is much more like Neo Exdeath than Zeromus. They share much more than he and Zeromus. Proof are their goals ('Zero World' and 'All that shall be returned to nothing') and their attacks ('Grand Cross').

Difference than again was that Neo Exdeath (probably) was the Void taking on a psychical form to take on the heroes and zero everything, but only appeared as a living (???) being in the end, after absorbing Exdeath. Necron has (if we can believe his words) always been there.

Still, these two share a lot more than Zeromus and Necron.

Oh, and on the subject of why didn't Necron kill them if he's so powerful, well... Where did that Outer-space background of Zeromus come from? And how did Cecil and the others breath on a moon? Why didn't Kuja kill them all with Ultima from the start? Why didn't Necron neutron ring them 3 times in the beginning and be done with it?

Simple answer: we still need to PLAY the game, which is still a GAME, not get our asses kicked from the start. There's no fun in that... That's logical, I think.

[boys from the dwarf]

i'll agree with that.

its a game.

i wasn't too sure about kuja destroying the crystal and yeah. it makes sense that he doesn't but necron is an entity without the need of a physical body.

necron is not evil. he has no alleigance. its only his job that matters and it would be pretty stupid, considering what his purpose is, if he could actually be killed.

i take it you understand that kujas ultima killed the party (please say you know this. i'd hate to explain this too.) which is why they appeared at the hill of despair. if you dont believe this...

in short: beat trance kuja. notice how the bodies of your characters dissapear as if they've evapourated and been completely destroyed. and then they appear at a completely different place that is no where near the crystal world. it would be harder to prove that they are alive than it is to prove their dead.

anyway. it was a sort of a between life and death battle of will.

necron says this exactly.

"Why defy your fate?"
"Is the will to live that powerful...?"

which sounds a lot like him realizing something.

after he realizes that he is not needed, he dissapears but of course, he will return.

[jammi567]

For the purposes of being able to quote, and see the contex of where quotes come from, i'm posting the whole of the dialogue between Necron and Zidane, before and after the battle:


[Kuja uses his Ultima Trance and knocks everyone out. The party wakes
up on some unfamiliar terrain.]

Zidane: "U-Ugh... What happened to the crystal...? ...Where is this?"

Voice: "You stand before the final dimension, and I am the darkness
of eternity..."

Zidane: "Wh-Who are you!?"

Voice: "All life bears death from birth. Life fears death, but lives
only to die. It starts with anxiety. Anxiety becomes fear. Fear
leads to anger...anger leads to hate...hate leads to suffering...
The only cure for this fear is total destruction. Kuja was a
victim of his own fear. He concluded he could only save himself
by destroying the origin of all things--the crystal."

Zidane: "What the heck are you talking about? Why are you telling me
all this?"

Voice: "...Now, the theory is undeniable. Kuja's actions prove it. All
things live to perish. At last, life has uncovered this truth.
Now, it is time to end this world."

Zidane: "Wh-What do you mean by that?"

Voice: "I exist for one purpose... To return everything back to the
zero world, where there is no life and no crystal to give life.
In a world of nothing, fear does not exist. This is the world
that all life desires."

Zidane: "Who the hell do you think you are!? You're not ending anything!
Never, not as long as we have the will to live!"

Voice: "Foolish creature... Your fears have already deluded you. One
day, you will choose destruction over existence, as Kuja did.
When he sought to destroy the crystal, the purpose of life ended.
Now, come... Enter the zero world that you desire."

Zidane: "No! We'll destroy you and prove you wrong! And through our
memories, future generations will see that we can overcome any
fear! ...We can't give up now. ...We have to fight together.
Even if we lose, it doesn't matter... Our memories will live
on inside others. So, even if we are born to die, I'm not
afraid. I'm gonna live!"

(....)(pick party members + short dialogue between them)

Zidane: "We've come too far to lose now. Let's just wrap this up
and go home...all of us."
Freya: "You don't stand a chance against us! We shall prevail!"

[The battle with the entity (Necron), and they lay a humanity-sized
smackdown on it.]

Necron: "Why defy your fate?"

[The party members teleport out of the Hill of Despair.]

Necron: "Is the will to live that powerful...?"

[Necron starts to go kaboom, crumbling.]

Necron: "This is not the end. I am eternal... ...as long as there is
life and death..."

[The Crystal]

Everything i'm saying is just a theory. I'm not saying that is the absolute truth. But what you guys are saying is a theory too, so, stop talking like it's a fact. Your opinions aren't facts.
Now, talking about the theories, we have to see which of them have more evidences that suport them.

Theory 1 - Necron is the energy source of the Iifa Tree:

"Part 1: Necron

I believe Necron, the final opponent fought in Final Fantasy IX, is the
central function of the Iifa Tree, the mechanism that interefered with the Cycle of Souls. To put it another way, Necron is the true form of the Iifa Tree, that aspect of it that lies beyond the material plane and intereferes with the cycle of Gaia's souls on the spiritual plane.

For evidence of this, we must first look to Garland's observations and
conclusions concerning life:

(In Pandemonium on Terra.)
"But think for a moment... Isn't life death itself? It must kill other
life-forms to survive..."
"Sometimes it even kills those with whom is shares blood..."
"To live is to give life meaning, yet one must take others' lives to
survive..."
"A mature civilization becomes aware of this paradox..."
"Terra's souls will sleep until they forget such nonsense. They will begin a new life in a new dimension."
"It's a world in which life and death become one..."
"That is the dimension in which we are meant to live, as beings that
transcend life and death!"


We find very similar conclusions stated by Necron:

(Above the Hill of Despair.)
"All life bears death from birth."
"Life fears death, but lives only to die."
"It starts with anxiety."
"Anxiety becomes fear."
"Fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate... hate leads to suffering..."
"The only cure for this fear is total destruction."

"...Now, the theory is undeniable."
"Kuja's action proves it. All things live to perish."
"At last, life has uncovered this truth. Now, it is time to end this world."

...

"I exist for one purpose..."
"To return everything back to the zero world, where there is no life and no crystal to give life."
"In a world of nothing, fear does not exist. This is the world that all life
desires."


With this in mind, recall that Garland created the Iifa Tree. That it would be aware of Garland's (him being its maker and having assigned it its function) beliefs and could have sought to analyze them as a result -- with the actions of another of Garland's creations, Kuja, as the basis of the analyzation -- is something to be considered.

Something else to consider is that Garland states that the Iifa Tree's true form was not the Tree itself, that being only its material form:

Garland
"We must sort the souls."
"I want to disrupt Gaia's cycle and drain its souls, filling the void with
the souls of Terra."
"To speed the cycle of souls is to speed the work as a whole. Thus, war..."
"And in time... Gaia's souls are gone, and Gaia becomes Terra."

Garland
"You saw it with your own eyes. You saw the Iifa Tree and the Mist it emits."
"The role of the Iifa Tree is that of Soul Divider. The Mist you see
comprises the stagnant souls of Gaia..."

Zidane
"Oh yeah? But we stopped the Mist! So much for that!"

Garland
"ALL YOU SAW WAS THE BACK OF THE TREE..."
"Even now, the Iifa Tree blocks the flow of Gaia's souls, while it lets
those of Terra flow freely."
"Come and see for yourself. See the true form of this planet."

Zidane
"What is this?"

Garland
"Think of it as an observatory. A place to measure the radiance of Gaia and Terra."

Zidane
"What are you talking about? And what is this weird light?"

Garland
"That is the center of the planet. The end and the beginning of the cycle of souls."
"The light remains Gaia's, for now, but when the blue changes to crimson, all will belong to Terra, and its restoration will be complete."
"THAT IS WHY I WRAPPED UP THE LIGHT IN THE IIFA TREE, TO PREVENT THE CYCLE OF THE JUDGEMENT OF SOULS ON GAIA FROM INSIDE THE PLANET."
"SUCH IS THE IIFA TREE'S TRUE PURPOSE, ITS TRUE FORM. ALL YOU SAW WAS ITS MATERIAL FORM."
"The flow of Gaia's souls cannot be changed simply by stopping the disposal of Mist."
(Capitalized for emphasis.)


This would mean that the mechanism which interrupts the Cycle of Souls was something not on the physical plane. With this in mind, recall that when Kuja is defeated, he says that he if he is going to die, he isn't going alone, meaning he intended to kill Zidane and the others with his final attack. He then proceeds to blast them with an Ultima Spell, their bodies being engulfed in flames and vanishing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ed/Screwed.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ihilation2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ihilation5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ihilation7.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ihilation8.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ihilation9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...hilation10.jpg


Now keep in mind further that after the screen fades out, when it fades back in, we find Zidane and the others laying in an area that ISN'T the area where Kuja was fought, and which is called the "Hill of Despair" according to the Menu Screen:

(Where Kuja was fought.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...inalBattle.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...nalBattle2.jpg

(The Hill of Despair.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...lofDespair.jpg

("Hill of Despair" on the Menu Screen.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...lofDespair.jpg


In addition to this, the moans of tormented souls can be heard in the
background.

In other words, the implication is that when Zidane and the others were hit by Kuja's Spell, they were KILLED, and then came face-to-face with the Iifa Tree's true form on the spirtual plane, it attempting to dismiss them from Gaia as it had done to all the souls up to this point, as was the purpose Garland said the Tree had been given.

Also consider that after the defeat of Necron, the gateway to Memoria explodes and the Iifa Tree goes into a spasm, flailing its vines and roots about, then dying soon after. We can be certain that the Tree died, as Mikoto can be seen briefly during the ending walking across a vine of the Tree, it no longer violent and thrashing. For that matter, had the Tree not been undone, we would be left to wonder why Gaia's assimilation by Terra was never completed, seeing as how Kuja said that the assimilation was nigh at hand before the final battle with him.

Necron being the core mechanism of the Tree would account for the Tree's demise, whereas Necron not being so would leave us to question why the Tree died for seemingly no reason, first going into violent spasms immediately after Necron was defeated, then being dead shortly thereafter.

Something else possibly worth consideration is what Garland says concerning the radiance of Gaia and Terra:

Garland
"That is the center of the planet. The end and the beginning of the cycle of
souls."
"The light remains Gaia's, for now, but when the blue changes to crimson, all
will belong to Terra, and its restoration will be complete."


The radiance of Gaia is blue, whereas the radiance of Terra is red. Necron is blue, yet when casting certain Spells, changes its color to red.

Yet another point of consideration is the similarity between the faces seen in Oeilvert and Necron's face:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...erranFaces.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ecronsFace.jpg

This suggests that Terran technology was employed in Necron's creation.

One final point of consideration is that the Iifa Tree theme and the Final Battle theme -- consisting of the music heard on the Hill of Despair and during the battle with Necron -- follow the same theme, with the two pieces being variations of this theme. A similar example would be the reuse of the Prelude theme throughout the Final Fantasy series, the same theme always being used though in a new variation.

In summary, with Garland and Necron expressing similar views on life, and Necron's own words showing that it was testing a theory involving that view of life before concluding that the view was accurate (which would make sense for it to do if Garland were its creator), we can possibly conclude the same point of origin for this belief. Further, with Garland suggesting that the true form of the Iifa Tree did not lie on the physical plane, and with Zidane and the others being killed in battle by Kuja only to find themselves confronted by a creature spouting views similar to Garland's and changing into the two colors of the Planets that the Iifa Tree served as a gateway between (blue for Gaia and red for Terra), as well as Necron sharing the same theme as the Iifa Tree, we can assume a possible connection to the Iifa Tree on Necron's part.
The death of the Tree following Necron's defeat allows us to confirm this."

Theory 2 - Necron is a cosmic being that appear out of nowhere:

He said that he is the darkness of eternity and is immortal.



SoS theory make MUCH more sense and have MUCH more evidences that suport it, than your silly theory.

Both of them are valid theories, but until now, SoS one is more valid, because of the number of evidences presented.

[Elpizo]

I believed the Necron = Iifa Tree, but I have ONE problem with it. Mainly: Its desire to return everything to zero, instead of sorting out the souls like Garland wanted the Iifa Tree to do. Why would the tree suddenly change its mind? Why would it even want to face Zidane and co instead of just sorting out their souls?

It was created to sort out souls. Why would it suddenly go a Neo Exdeath?

[jammi567]

Because it was a being which could think on it's own, just like Kuja and Zidane. And it followed Kuja around, and watched Kujas actions, and so decided that that's what all of humanity wanted.

[The Crystal]

I believed the Necron = Iifa Tree, but I have ONE problem with it. Mainly: Its desire to return everything to zero, instead of sorting out the souls like Garland wanted the Iifa Tree to do. Why would the tree suddenly change its mind? Why would it even want to face Zidane and co instead of just sorting out their souls?

It was created to sort out souls. Why would it suddenly go a Neo Exdeath?

This is in SoS FFIX FAQ

"*Point: Garland says he wanted to place all creatures into a world in whichlife was combined with death, while Necron spoke of returning all life into aworld without life. That wouldn't suggest similar goals.

*Response: Once again, not necessarily. This is what Garland says concerning his ultimate goal for living beings:

"To live is to give life meaning, yet one must take others' lives to
survive..."
"A mature civilization becomes aware of this paradox..."
"Terra's souls will sleep until they forget such nonsense. They will begin a new life in a new dimension."
"It's a world in which life and death become one..."
"That is the dimension in which we are meant to live, as beings that
transcend life and death!"


This is what Necron says concerning its intentions:

"I exist for one purpose..."
"To return everything back to the zero world, where there is no life and no crystal to give life."
"In a world of nothing, fear does not exist. This is the world that all life
desires."


Necron speaks of placing life in a dimension of no life, with no Crystal to give life. Does that necessarily mean that all things are non-existant? Would souls cease to exist simply because they weren't inhabiting living vessels?
Or would they be without life, and, thus, without death, as well? Would they not have transcended life and death, as Garland sought to accomplish?
Granted, this is only speculation, but to transcend life and death would mean to be beyond both, and from my own interpretation, for there to be no life would also mean there would be no death. To exist without either, but beyond their reach.

However, I believe that the true nature of this matter is this:

Recall that Final Fantasy IX is a game that pays tribute to past Final Fantasy games and that its final boss battle is already paying heavy tribute to Final Fantasy IV's final battle. It's also paying tribue to V's, however, in that the concept of the Darkness of Eternity (also Necron's Japanese name) is akin to the concept of the Void from Final Fantasy V's final battle with Neo Ex-Death, and the manner in which they introduce themselves is also very similar (as will be pointed out further in the next section).

Supposing that Necron essentially became the same as the Void of Final Fantasy V -- keeping in mind that the Void itself was a manufactured entity only 1,000 years old and not simply a being that always was -- Necron, aware of Garland's view of life (that it exists hand-in-hand with death and that life is death itself as life must cause death in order to endure) due to Garland being his maker, chose to test the validity of Garland's hypothesis, and so it chose to observe Kuja, another of Garland's creations, and the one that Garland had intended to work in rapport with the Tree, Kuja inciting war and death, rendering souls free of their bodies, with the Iifa Tree then intercepting those souls and preventing them from being added back to Gaia's collective.

After witnessing Kuja's self-destructive actions that took place on a cosmic scale, Necron would have concluded that Garland's theory was correct ("...Now, the theory is undeniable." "Kuja's action proves it. All things live to perish.") and then took the purpose for which Garland had created it further than was ever intended, choosing to expand its range of negation beyond just Gaia's souls and to the universe itself, deciding to -- like the Void -- end all existance, quite possibly including its own, the same as the Void had intended. If ever a being that existed for the purpose that the Iifa Tree had been given were to expand its range of function further, this would be the logical form of expansion: Extending its sights beyond Gaia and to the universe at-large. This is even arguably the only logical evolution that Necron could deterine for the purpose for which it had been created.