scary retouching

[Anaisa]

Except that the standard for beauty is a hell of a lot more subjective than that for intelligence. My god, you must have a sad life, looking at all the REAL people you see every day and seeing nothing but disgusting malformed freaks.

I don't have a problem with my perspective. I'd prefer to see humans for what they are, than believe their wonderful just because I am one. Although the opinion of what's beautiful is more subjective, an people are free to describe who they want as beautiful, that doesn't mean everyone IS beautiful. The opinion amongst people doesn't even vary enough for there to be no standard.

Second Picture; Hey, I think it's great that she can wear her underwear in a picture like that. I'd like to see you do this , I know I couldn't and I'm not even overweight.

I'm a classy lady, I'm not going to post pictures of myself in my underwear on the internet!

Third Picture: What? I agree with Xander on this one.

She's old an wrinkly! I can't believe any of you think that woman is beautiful.

We obviously just have a different opinion on what the word beauty means then (which I guess is fine, no one person can say what it is by fact anyway).
But I don't agree with your "some look better than others". What is "better"? So you have yourself some set standard for beauty, doesn't mean it's the same for others. Women who may pass this "beauty" thing, who may not be TOO overweight, or not have cellulite or flab or whatever you say, why does that make them beautiful? I know a lot of people who wouldn't find those "perfect" looking people attractive, and actually more guys who prefer some curves.

I wasn't talking about my standards. I was talking about the general opinion. An I don't think curvy figures are unattractive, I think overweight figures are unattractive. An I assume when most men say they prefer curvy women, they mean they prefer an hourglass type figure, not an overweight woman.

And yes, personally I think all people are beautiful, because I think life is a beautiful thing and if you have a good soul that makes you beautiful. I don't think a perfect figure makes you instantly beautiful.

I don't think having a perfect figure alone makes someone beautiful either. An although I do think the nicer someone is as a person the more physically attractive they appear, an vice versa. Not knowing somebody an just looking at a picture of them, you can't actually tell what they're like as a person, so surely you wouldn't just assume they were good people, an think they were beautiful based on that?

And yeah if you think beautiful is some perfect in between then, you can't see too many beautiful people from day to day >_>

Well I don't find many people beautiful.

Saying old people are hideous is just... well.. good luck getting old. xD

My parents are 43, an people still guess they're in their twentys, so I've got good genes for looking youthful. I don't want to be old anyway though, so I don't have to worry about that.

[Megami]

She's old an wrinkly! I can't believe any of you think that woman is beautiful.

I don't want to be old anyway though, so I don't have to worry about that.

Bad news lady, you are going to be old one day.

The beauty you "believe" is the beauty that media and society teach us, how can that be a "general" view of beauty, when it's obvious that each one has their own standards?

What I am going to say is far from original but the true beauty lies within your actions and attitudes, some people may not impress you at first sight but you can notice later how beautiful they are.

Physical beauty and youthness will be lost through years, your intelligence, perception and personality not.

[Jojee]

I agree with Anaisa that in the second picture ( http://media.apn.co.nz/webcontent/im...0sideswipe.JPG ), the woman looks like her weight could be fairly unhealthy for her. I think it's great that Dove wants to campaign that you should be happy with who you are For people who are overweight, I'm happy for them if they feel good about themselves, but it shouldn't be advocated in the sense that very overweight and obese people shouldn't be concerned about losing weight at all, because that's simply unhealthy.

[Madame Adequate]

It's pretty hard to judge how healthy someone is by their appearance, unless it's really profound. I know big girls who are far healthier than I am, and whilst I used to think I was underweight, the way most people are today (Like Jojo and Anaisa) I'm probably larger than I should be - you can only see my ribs when I'm stretching. :rolleyes2

Whilst weight can cause health problems, I think we need to get away from this notion that weight = health problems. I can't even begin to imagine how the woman in that second picture might be too big to be healthy, she looks fine to me.

I don't have a problem with my perspective. I'd prefer to see humans for what they are, than believe their wonderful just because I am one. Although the opinion of what's beautiful is more subjective, an people are free to describe who they want as beautiful, that doesn't mean everyone IS beautiful. The opinion amongst people doesn't even vary enough for there to be no standard.

Uh, what? "Beauty is subjective, but that doesn't mean it's subjective!" And a large number of believers doesn't make something true. There is no standard for beauty except what you [general you] think is beautiful. Case in point: One of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen had clearly suffered severe burns to her face when she was younger. I thought she was absolutely gorgeous.

[Jojee]

It's pretty hard to judge how healthy someone is by their appearance, unless it's really profound. I know big girls who are far healthier than I am, and whilst I used to think I was underweight, the way most people are today (Like Jojo and Anaisa) I'm probably larger than I should be - you can only see my ribs when I'm stretching. :rolleyes2

I'm disappointed and rather hurt that you would take digs at my appearance when I'm trying to civily state what I think.

[Madame Adequate]

It's pretty hard to judge how healthy someone is by their appearance, unless it's really profound. I know big girls who are far healthier than I am, and whilst I used to think I was underweight, the way most people are today (Like Jojo and Anaisa) I'm probably larger than I should be - you can only see my ribs when I'm stretching. :rolleyes2

I'm disappointed and rather hurt that you would take digs at my appearance when I'm trying to civily state what I think.

... I don't know what you look like? All I said was how I look, and that whilst I've tended to consider it too thin, the way a lot of people (Not just on here) act, I'm not too thin at all, despite the fact that my bones show quite easily.

[Jojee]

... I don't know what you look like? All I said was how I look, and that whilst I've tended to consider it too thin, the way a lot of people (Not just on here) act, I'm not too thin at all, despite the fact that my bones show quite easily.

I see your comment could have been taken two ways and I must have misunderstood. However, your apparent sarcasm and your assumptions are still unwarranted, as it was in this case:

There is a standard for beauty, just like there is a standard for intelligence for example. We're not all geniuses, an we're not all beautiful.

Except that the standard for beauty is a hell of a lot more subjective than that for intelligence. My god, you must have a sad life, looking at all the REAL people you see every day and seeing nothing but disgusting malformed freaks.

We all know that just because you do not find someone beautiful, it does not mean you find them a "disgusting, malformed freak."

I never stated that I endorsed being underweight; that can be just as unhealthy as it can be to be overweight. I'm surprised that you would assume that I would think only people who are walking skeletons can be beautiful or that you should lose weight when I have no idea what you are like. Especially when all I said was that unhealthiness should not be endorsed; I never even commented on your whole beauty argument. I'm happy for people who feel good about themselves. Some of the most beautiful people I know are larger people, because their personality shines from within and that makes them more beautiful than their appearance alone ever could.

You're right, it's hard to judge how healthy someone is by their appearance. Muscle mass and genetics and a variety of other factors could come into play. Perhaps that girl in the picture is healthy - but I can tell you that the gross amount of very overweight or obese people in this country (and many other developed countries) are not. There's a reason that doctors don't advocate obesity or being overweight.

Don't judge me. Thanks.

[VengefulRonin]

I knew they touched up people...but jesus, that first girl O_O

[Madame Adequate]

I never stated that I endorsed being underweight; that can be just as unhealthy as it can be to be overweight. I'm surprised that you would assume that I would think only people who are walking skeletons can be beautiful or that you should lose weight when I have no idea what you are like. Especially when all I said was that unhealthiness should not be endorsed; I never even commented on your whole beauty argument. I'm happy for people who feel good about themselves. Some of the most beautiful people I know are larger people, because their personality shines from within and that makes them more beautiful than their appearance alone ever could.

You are right, I dragged you into my comments against Anaisa based on basically a single comment of yours, which was that the woman looks too big to be healthy. Happen I disagree with that, but you presented your views in a reasonable way and I should have been a lot more considered in responding to what you said. My apologies. And further apologies if anything I said caused you offense because of how you look, all I know is a few vague things people have occasionally said, most of which were some time ago - it didn't occur to me that I knew anything at all until just now. I can see that what I said could be taken badly, and I'm sorry that it was.

You're right, it's hard to judge how healthy someone is by their appearance. Muscle mass and genetics and a variety of other factors could come into play. Perhaps that girl in the picture is healthy - but I can tell you that the gross amount of very overweight or obese people in this country (and many other developed countries) are not. There's a reason that doctors don't advocate obesity or being overweight.

Ah, yes, and I certainly think it's unwise to be so overweight it's actually bad for you - the difference is that I seem to consider that, at least in visual terms, to be quite a bit larger than many other people do. So whilst we'd probably say much the same thing to someone overweight, we consider who is overweight to be different (I grew up with a severely obese family member, that may have desensitized).

[Anaisa]

Bad news lady, you are going to be old one day.

Well aren't you assumptious! How do you know I'll live to old age?

The beauty you "believe" is the beauty that media and society teach us, how can that be a "general" view of beauty, when it's obvious that each one has their own standards?

Again, you're assuming. There are very few people I'd consider beautiful. That doesn't apply to the media. As I already said: The opinion amongst people doesn't even vary enough for there to be no standard.

What I am going to say is far from original but the true beauty lies within your actions and attitudes, some people may not impress you at first sight but you can notice later how beautiful they are

Well yes. But when you're looking at a picture of a total stranger, that doesn't come into account.

Uh, what? "Beauty is subjective, but that doesn't mean it's subjective!" And a large number of believers doesn't make something true. There is no standard for beauty except what you [general you] think is beautiful. Case in point: One of the most beautiful girls I've ever seen had clearly suffered severe burns to her face when she was younger. I thought she was absolutely gorgeous.

That's not what I said. Although there are varying degrees of what people find beautiful, there isn't enough variation for there to be no standard at all. Just like with anything else, you can disagree with the majority, but they're setting the standard. You can disagree with the standard, but it doesn't make it any less existent. An you yourself will surely not find all people equally attractive, so they can't all be beautiful to you.

It's pretty hard to judge how healthy someone is by their appearance, unless it's really profound. I know big girls who are far healthier than I am, and whilst I used to think I was underweight, the way most people are today (Like Jojo and Anaisa) I'm probably larger than I should be - you can only see my ribs when I'm stretching.

If most people shared our same opinion, there would not be as many overweight people as there are. An it's not just an opinion that they're overweight, you can tell by looking at them that they are overweight. I think if everyone here was offered £100 to guess correctly whether those women were the weight they should be, or overweight, everybody would surely be betting they were overweight. An if they weren't, they'd be getting no money!

Whilst weight can cause health problems, I think we need to get away from this notion that weight = health problems. I can't even begin to imagine how the woman in that second picture might be too big to be healthy, she looks fine to me.

I don't think either of those women are big enough to suffer serious health problems due to their weight, but they're not healthy. Being healthy requires a certain amount of physical activity, an they're obviously not getting enough of that. If they were, they wouldn't be overweight in the first place.

[DarkLadyNyara]

I don't think either of those women are big enough to suffer serious health problems due to their weight, but they're not healthy. Being healthy requires a certain amount of physical activity, an they're obviously not getting enough of that. If they were, they wouldn't be overweight in the first place.

I'm not touching most of this arguement, but that is untrue. You can be chubby and active, and you can be a skinny couch potato. There is always more than one factor in weight.

[Anaisa]

I don't think either of those women are big enough to suffer serious health problems due to their weight, but they're not healthy. Being healthy requires a certain amount of physical activity, an they're obviously not getting enough of that. If they were, they wouldn't be overweight in the first place.

I'm not touching most of this arguement, but that is untrue. You can be chubby and active,and you can be a skinny couch potato. There is always more than one factor in weight.

I didn't say chubby, I said overweight. You can be active an chubby, but if you're chubby, you're obviously not exercising to the degree that you should be. A skinny couch potato will also not be physically fit. More physically fit than an overweight couch potato, but not actually physically fit.

[Megami]

Well aren't you assumptious! How do you know I'll live to old age?

But if you do, you'll have to live with that :/

Again, you're assuming. There are very few people I'd consider beautiful. That doesn't apply to the media. As I already said: The opinion amongst people doesn't even vary enough for there to be no standard.

I didn't say your personal tastes applied to the media but the image of a good looking girl was created by society. If when you were born, you were taught that "beauty" was an obese person, your standards would be completly different now.,of course that's out of possibility because that's the world we live in.

It's pretty hard to judge how healthy someone is by their appearance, unless it's really profound. I know big girls who are far healthier than I am, and whilst I used to think I was underweight, the way most people are today (Like Jojo and Anaisa) I'm probably larger than I should be - you can only see my ribs when I'm stretching.

Well I think the person who talked about that subject first was meaning that overweight is a cause for a variety of health problems, which is true...altough some people have problems of weight because health problems, other people can prevent it , having a better life style..

Diabetes, cholesterol...are some examples...

[Anaisa]

But if you do, you'll have to live with that :/

I'd rather be dead than really old. I'll never be a pruny looking frail old woman. The mere thought of it makes me feel sick.

I didn't say your personal tastes applied to the media but the image of a good looking girl was created by society. If when you were born, you were taught that "beauty" was an obese person, your standards would be completly different now.,of course that's out of possibility because that's the world we live in.

My thoughts an opinions are certainly not dictated to by the rest of society. Most people that are considered beautiful by your average person wouldn't be beautiful to me. There are people that are considered beautiful, that I think are very ugly.

[Megami]

I'd rather be dead than really old. I'll never be a pruny looking frail old woman. The mere thought of it makes me feel sick.

I am not even going to discuss this one...speechless.

My thoughts an opinions are certainly not dictated to by the rest of society. Most people that are considered beautiful by your average person wouldn't be beautiful to me. There are people that are considered beautiful, that I think are very ugly.

This is what we call "personal tastes". But the basic idea is still the same.