Grinding

[Wolf Kanno]

Had this amusing video recommended to me:



So what are your thoughts on Grinding? Good? Bad? The Great Equalizer?

[Psychotic]

Hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it!

[Fynn]

I don’t hate it

[Del Murder]

Haha, that Fire Emblem comment is so true. I was Classic all through Awakening and doing the 'reset if someone dies' approach. Then I realized...that's just forcing Casual mode on myself. I've been Casual all the way after that and I don't regret it!

I think there is a line between doing things to level up or get stronger and grinding. I would not call all repetitive actions to get stronger 'grinding'. 'Grinding' is the negative term I would use to only describe it when it becomes cumbersome. Like if the drop rate is 1% on an essential item or if it takes 2 hours to gain a level. Fine to require some effort to do things, but that's just excessive.

[Vincent, Thunder God]

It was an OK video, but I take issue with him joining the online bandwagon of people who use the term "autism" so flippantly. It's become a catch-all descriptive/insult without people understanding what it actually means, and is pretty insensitive to people who may have that diagnosis. I see it a lot and it pisses me off. People with developmental or mental health issues are the next group that deserve to be heard/respected and not made into a punchline or discriminated against so casually. Sorry to get serious, but I'm tired of this trend online.

[Jessweeee♪]

Sometimes grinding is fun. I mean, 50% of why we play video games is to trigger that nice "I reached a goal post" dopamine. MMO grinding to farm rare drops can be a bit much though. Like, relic quests in FFXIV. At one point you had to farm 12 unique types of something that dropped at a 1% rate each. And that was just one step of a few dozen like it. The stat difference just isn't worth it to me and while a skilled player with it does more DPS than an equally skilled player without it, skill level varies enough to render the point moot. It's really for completionists or because you like how it's glowy enough to blind the whole planet. Every now and then a patch comes out with more crazy quests to work on the weapon to make it stronger, or to make the next relic weapon. Inevitably a patch came out where it wasn't the best weapon and everyone just lost their trout because of all the work they put in, even though, of course, a patch would come out at a later time expanding it further and it was the best weapon again.

I like it when games like FFVIII give you more than one path to "grind" on. You could wait for monsters/draw points to come along with the magic you needed and spend several turns drawing magic from them, or you could play cards for a bit and have more deaths and quakes than you will ever need for all of your characters for the entire game several times over before the end of disc 1.

[Zora]

I'm confused... what did this video have to do with autism? IDK, that comment just confused me. Is he trying to imply the repetitive motions/behaviors characteristic of autism is comparable to grinding, because oh boy that's a loaded stereotype he's using if that is.

That said, I have complicated and ambivalent feelings about grinding.

First and foremost, I feel the platform matters a lot. I can tolerate, or maybe even enjoy, grinding on handheld. Maybe I'm watching a show and I want something to 'fidget' with or maybe I have 20 minutes left on my lunch and want to do something quick, accessible, and doesn't require a lot of energy--and grinding is all those things. What feels nice is there's payoff later. But for consoles, the situation is different; often I don't get a lot of time with consoles and want that time to matter; required grinding feels disappointing.

But a new model that's emerged among JRPGs and that I really enjoy is tying character progression to sidequests. Instead of doing the same battle x times over, you instead pull up your questlog and find quests to do. Xenoblade Chronicles took this approach, and even something as simple as finding a vista could reward you with bucketloads of EXP; plus, there's incentive to go off the beaten path. For console games, I really enjoy this approach.

The related question is also about character progression systems--are they good or bad? Your typical shooter doesn't have progression--you're basically as strong on first level as the final level. I actually like character progression systems because I'm honestly pretty bad at games; so having a Plan B (i.e. grinding) does help me out. However, as games are embracing thorough difficulty settings, this is becoming less of an issue.

[maybee]

Stopped listening to the video when he started being a dick towards those who play on a easier mode when it comes to Fire Emblem. Love playing the harder modes all you want, but don't be a dick towards those who prefer to play on easy.

On topic, I don't mind grinding if the battle system is fun enough. Something like FFVII it can get tedious fast, but something like FFX could grind all day.

[Depression Moon]

I hate it majority of the time. I've recently been stuck on the Fire Gym in Pokemon Zeta. I just beat it the other day, but I had to grind to do so. Yeah, I always go for strategy first before I resort to grinding, but Miranda just had an overwhelming advantage. My Pokemon were at the level 62/61 level while all of hers were at least 68 with her Volcarona at 70. It was a double battle and your rival brought Pokemon at level 58 and all of his pokemon were weak to hers in some way. The battle has Sunny Day set up, all of her pokemon have coverage moves, she uses Life Orbs, leftovers, a mega stone, and trout.

I taught my Kingdra Rain Dance, flew back to an old town to change my Rotom to a water type used items to, but I was still getting my ass beat constantly because eventually the fight is going to be 2 on 1 since your rival only brings 3 pokemon and you can't fill the gap after your rival loses. I got so close one time after grinding up one level, but his Volcarona pulled Weakness Policy. I didn't even know Volcarona can even have that ability and it was a wrap after that. I only beat her after not resetting the game keeping all of my experience and grinding up my Kingdra up to level 66. I legit believe there was no way for me to beat her when I fought her the first time with a level 61/62 party. Not to mention grinding in pokemon takes a while since you have 6 pokemon to level up and they gain levels individually and not as a party like in FF.

[Sarisa]

Hate it with a passion. I usually end up beating games a good 10-20 levels below what's recommended because I get tired of grinding random encounters for exp and gold needed to buy better gear. If i'm going to be fighting a battle it should mean something; repetitive "kill X number of these monsters" quests are just stupid.

[Christmas]

I think the Koreans really love it. Maplestory is really a great example.

Grinding is only good if the balance is there. The reward vs the effort committed must be worth it.

[BG-57]

I'm fine with grinding if:

1) It's a game that really enjoyable to play.

2) There is a system of unlockable abilities (Materia, License Board, Magicite, Sphere Grid, Jobs) that you can get more of by grinding.

3) They can be unlocked through experience gained as opposed to minigames, platforming, target shooting or random drops.