is Sephiroth the best bad guy in the series?

[chrisfffan]

I think that’s a good thing about sephiroth he doesn’t really have any big magic powers apart from at the end, sure he has got normal magic like fira spells, lightning and other ones but he is usually strong enough with his sword I think another great thing about him is he doesn’t really use anyone he doesn’t really give orders theirs a lots of things he could of done better sure I mean all the villains in this series should of done better they all get defeated in the end! but in terms of looks and his speech he’s cool.




and another point I want to make is how can Kuja possibly be the best bad guy if I remember right he gives up and turns good in the end doesn’t he?

Edit by Kishi: Don't double-post.

[The Crystal]

Well, glad we can all agree after this very lenghty and intriguing topic that Sephiroth is far from the best, and is behind Kuja and Kefka in some categories.

Fixed for you.

So, we're 4Chan now, eh? Better go prepare for the invasion of the /b/tards.

Evidence would be appreciated. Non-vague, non-made up evidence, this time, please. Kitase saying Sephiroth is the strongest character in FF7 (in some undefined category) does not grant him superpowers we've never seen him use. Substantiate your arguments, please. Non sequitors will not be tolerated.

Oh yes- Concession accepted on what you did not address. If you wish to resume arguing these claims, please begin from square one.

Wrong! If Kitase say that Sephiroth is the strongest is because he is. Sorry kid, but you don't know more about FFVII than Kitase and SE.

[Forsaken Lover]

And when SE say that he is the most powerfull being in FFVII universe, that means that he is more powerfull than beings like Omega Weiss and Omega Weapon itself.

"Producer Kitase decided that they couldn’t make any other character stronger than Sephiroth in the world of FFVII."-Found in the AC director's commentary from the JP DVD

Just thought I’d clear that up. Not being. Character. Omega Weapon is a thing. Not a character.

Anyway, I’m gonna make my final note now. I might reply after this out of need but this is what really needs to be said. There is difference best and favorite. Favorite is completely subjective, based only on your pure opinion and yours alone. However, when you start saying something is the “best” it is no longer just your pure opinion. It is a statement decarling it to be superior to all other things in most if not all categories. This is not just pure opinion. It is debated opinion which requires facts and reasoning to back it up. Sephiroth may indeed be your “favorite” villain but saying he is the “best” means you have to prove his superiority somehow. Character, appearance, dialogue, impact, etc.

I feel Kuja is a better villain than Sephiroth and I’ve shown why many times with facts from the game to support everything I say. If a topic came up where it was just “Who’s Your Favorite” you wouldn’t need that sort of thing because it’s just your opinion.

[NeoCracker]

and another point I want to make is how can Kuja possibly be the best bad guy if I remember right he gives up and turns good in the end doesn’t he?

No, no he doesn't.

[Forsaken Lover]

and another point I want to make is how can Kuja possibly be the best bad guy if I remember right he gives up and turns good in the end doesn’t he?

Not so much going good as he regretted what he did. When you lie broken and on the brink of death, you rethink a lot of things in your life. it's very natural and not to have regrets is more a mark of stupidity than anything.

[The Crystal]

Just thought I’d clear that up. Not being. Character. Omega Weapon is a thing. Not a character.

A thing can be a character. A living being with a will(objective) that "fight" against you(this is OW), can be considered a character. And even if OW isn't one, that doesn't mater, because Omega Weiss was using the power of it, and he is a character.

Anyway, I’m gonna make my final note now. I might reply after this out of need but this is what really needs to be said. There is difference best and favorite. Favorite is completely subjective, based only on your pure opinion and yours alone. However, when you start saying something is the “best” it is no longer just your pure opinion. It is a statement decarling it to be superior to all other things in most if not all categories. This is not just pure opinion. It is debated opinion which requires facts and reasoning to back it up. Sephiroth may indeed be your “favorite” villain but saying he is the “best” means you have to prove his superiority somehow. Character, appearance, dialogue, impact, etc.

I feel Kuja is a better villain than Sephiroth and I’ve shown why many times with facts from the game to support everything I say. If a topic came up where it was just “Who’s Your Favorite” you wouldn’t need that sort of thing because it’s just your opinion.

"Best" is very subjective too. You can think that a character is better than the other, and give proves about it, but another guy can give proves that his character is better than yours. In the end, this is all about opinions.
And i never said that Sephiroth was the better villain. If you read my other posts, you will see that i'm ONLY talking about his powers. I know that Sephiroth's motives aren't good, and i know that he don't have any personality at all. BUT his clothes are cool, his music(and all the different versions of it) are cool, he is the most badass villain in FF series, and he is very powerful(he is behind Kefka and Kuja, but not by miles). But this is only my opinion though.
And then, we enter in another topic. Opinion. Something that you and Ryu have to understand, is that your opinion is not a fact. You have good motives to think that Kuja is better, but the others have good motives to think that the other villains are better. This is only your opinion. Not a fact.

[Avarice-ness]

I think that’s a good thing about sephiroth he doesn’t really have any big magic powers apart from at the end, sure he has got normal magic like fira spells, lightning and other ones but he is usually strong enough with his sword I think another great thing about him is he doesn’t really use anyone he doesn’t really give orders theirs a lots of things he could of done better sure I mean all the villains in this series should of done better they all get defeated in the end! but in terms of looks and his speech he’s cool.

and another point I want to make is how can Kuja possibly be the best bad guy if I remember right he gives up and turns good in the end doesn’t he?

He doesn't give orders because he's doing everything solely on his own. But then again he did try to control Cloud like 9 MILLION TIMES in the game. But I know what you mean.
And Jeez, not to be mean or anything, But there's an edit button in the corner. It's alot easier than double posting.

[chrisfffan]

for some reason that edit button doesnt work for me sorry to be a pain but i really wantead to add that point about Kuja.

[Ryushikaze]

Well, glad we can all agree after this very lenghty and intriguing topic that Sephiroth is far from the best, and is behind Kuja and Kefka in some categories.

Fixed for you.

So, we're 4Chan now, eh? Better go prepare for the invasion of the /b/tards.

Evidence would be appreciated. Non-vague, non-made up evidence, this time, please. Kitase saying Sephiroth is the strongest character in FF7 (in some undefined category) does not grant him superpowers we've never seen him use. Substantiate your arguments, please. Non sequitors will not be tolerated.

Oh yes- Concession accepted on what you did not address. If you wish to resume arguing these claims, please begin from square one.

Wrong! If Kitase say that Sephiroth is the strongest is because he is. Sorry kid, but you don't know more about FFVII than Kitase and SE.

Your dodge impresses no one. No one is doubting that Sephiroth is "the strongest". What is now in question is what category he is strongest in, and why him being "strongest" means he can use the abilities you claim he can use that he's never even been hinted at having.

[The Crystal]

Your dodge impresses no one. No one is doubting that Sephiroth is "the strongest". What is now in question is what category he is strongest in, and why him being "strongest" means he can use the abilities you claim he can use that he's never even been hinted at having.

Don't exist a "category". "Strongest" means that he is stronger than anyone else, simple as that. What Kitase said was clear like water.
Now, about the "abilities that i claim he can use that he's never even been hinted at having". I said that he can corrupt the Lifestream, and the name of this is Geostigma. This is in the movie, just watch it.
I said too, that he can use the corrupted Lifestream to directly corrupt the pure one. You said that this isn't stated in the RF. Little Ryu, you know what is the main reason of the RF existence? To explain to us, things that weren't showed or weren't explained in the movie. So, why the hell the RF would explain something, that is already explained in the movie?!

Sephiroth: "The soul of the dead who carried the Geostigma...
That, and with the Lifestream, controls the flow of the planet.
Eventually it'll corrupt it...
What i really want, Cloud...
Is to travel the Darkness of cosmos using this planet as my vessel.
As Mother did before me...
One day we will discover a new world.
We will create the future on that ground."

After this, he summon the corrupted one to cover the sky, and with a wave of his hand(one second before attacking Cloud) "order" the corrupted one, to descend(in form of "tentacles") to destroy everything(because is very obvious that, to transform the planet in a vessel, he have to destroy all life in it first).

All of this is very clear. Everyone that i know(that readed the UOG, RF, etc.) agree with me. You are the only one that disagree.

But even if you choosed to ignore the official words of SE, quotes of the movie, logic and common sense, you still can create your own explanation of why Sephiroth is the strongest. Because he is, and this is not a topic of discussion anymore.

[Forsaken Lover]

Who really cares if he's the strongest? That quote only applies to FFVII. If Square ever says he's the strongest villain in all Final Fantasy, then it's time to blow their HQ up. Because he's not. Kuja and Kefka smoke him. As does Neo Ex-Death and Cloud of Darkness and most of the other villains.

Seriously. He's oen weak god.

[Ryushikaze]

Don't exist a "category". "Strongest" means that he is stronger than anyone else, simple as that. What Kitase said was clear like water.

And yet, it isn't, because "Strongest" doesn't prove your other claims.

Now, about the "abilities that i claim he can use that he's never even been hinted at having". I said that he can corrupt the Lifestream, and the name of this is Geostigma. This is in the movie, just watch it.
I said too, that he can use the corrupted Lifestream to directly corrupt the pure one. You said that this isn't stated in the RF. Little Ryu, you know what is the main reason of the RF existence? To explain to us, things that weren't showed or weren't explained in the movie. So, why the hell the RF would explain something, that is already explained in the movie?!

Child, I have been incredibly patient with you. Stop testing me before I lose my patience. Yes, Sephiroth is corrupting the lifestream. He is NOT, as you claimed prevously, using the tainted stream to direct corrupt the untainted. There is also no reason to believe the boy can restrict the use of magic by other people, as you also tried to claim he could.

Sephiroth: "The soul of the dead who carried the Geostigma...
That, and with the Lifestream, controls the flow of the planet.
Eventually it'll corrupt it...

KEY WORD: Eventually. Do you know what eventually means? Over a significant period of time.

What i really want, Cloud...
Is to travel the Darkness of cosmos using this planet as my vessel.
As Mother did before me...
One day we will discover a new world.
We will create the future on that ground."

After this, he summon the corrupted one to cover the sky, and with a wave of his hand(one second before attacking Cloud) "order" the corrupted one, to descend(in form of "tentacles") to destroy everything(because is very obvious that, to transform the planet in a vessel, he have to destroy all life in it first).

Or he's trying to spread more Jenova Cells via the clouds. Or he just thinks they make a nice atmosphere. Can you please show evidence that this IS the lifestream? Especially since all official sources just refer to them as dark clouds? And since they wind up not doing a gorram thing to the ground in any of the incedental shots we do get to see? Or evidence that shows he has such control over the lifestream, when he doesn't even have enough control to create an unfragmented Shinentai?

All of this is very clear. Everyone that i know(that readed the UOG, RF, etc.) agree with me. You are the only one that disagree.

Just because something is 'clear' does not make it so. It is 'clear' to a child that it is the sun that moves around, not the earth, when the reality is the opposite. If you wish to convince people of your claims, then actually provide evidence.
And please, in the future, avoid such blanket statements that "everyone" agrees with you. This very thread- yes, other than me- is proof of the disagreement.

But even if you choosed to ignore the official words of SE, quotes of the movie, logic and common sense, you still can create your own explanation of why Sephiroth is the strongest. Because he is, and this is not a topic of discussion anymore.

No, this isn't about Sephiroth's relative strength compared to other FF7 characters anymore. This is about YOU providing some gorram evidence of the :skull::skull::skull::skull: you've been spouting.
Though where you're applying logic and common sense escapes me. I see lots of wild claims and conclusion jumping though.

[Avarice-ness]

Who really cares if he's the strongest? That quote only applies to FFVII. If Square ever says he's the strongest villain in all Final Fantasy, then it's time to blow their HQ up. Because he's not. Kuja and Kefka smoke him. As does Neo Ex-Death and Cloud of Darkness and most of the other villains.

Seriously. He's oen weak god.

I agree with what you just said.

Here's how I see Squeenix's logic. Sephiroth is the 'most liked' villain because he's in FFVII, FFVII has become Squeenix's new money play thing. So they say he's the strongest.

I draw a picture of a chicken, I say "This is the best chicken drawing ever" does that make it the best chicken drawing ever? No, because Best is an opinion word and just because I say it's the best doesn't mean it is the best chicken drawing ever, regardless if I created it or not.

[chrisfffan]

Originally posted by corncracker

No, no he doesn't.

are u taking the Mickey? if I remember right after defeating him at the end hes saved by Zidane, okay so they are sought of brothers but thats not the point! and as for the fight it was so easy! compared with Sephiroth it was a walk in the park.

[NeoCracker]

Saving one person doesn't make you a good guy. If Hitler stopped a little girl from dying I still think peoples opinions of him wouldn't change.