This game is awful

[Shadow8017]

Nominus, your response reeks of arrogance. Particularly at points you're giving me alternative explanations as to why I personally dislike a certain point, and then proceeding to sell it as fact. it's humerous, but I'm going to refrain from explaining to you how this is arrogant and unproductive for argument's sake. If you don't understand why ... then sorry.


..On to your arguments.

yes the new battle system is good. But seriously have you ever picked up a new rpg thinking to yourself "damn I hope the battle system is good."

You don't, and never have?
I have, on many accounts, decided to look into it further than just the back cover.

Its not the defining feature of an rpg and never was and never will be. All a good battle system does is make the dungeon crawling more tolerable

So this would explain why many RPGs are constantly trying to add innovations that are notable in their battle mechanics, and publicize such things heavily.

People tire of the same thing. Change gives way to novelty, and in turn, gives way to a level of interest and excitement.

I believe you're misunderstanding what I'm saying about the battle system here at a very fundamental level. Let me break it down for you. What I'm saying is something I know without a doubt that the rpg gaming community as a whole can agree on and thats that generally STORIES have sold rpgs ... actually the focual points are a combination of story/music. ( both which FFXII were lacking of course, more on that later ) Take Final Fantasy VII for example. Perhaps the most popular console rpg ever. Time and time again, people will cite their reasons for remembering back on it so fondly as being the intriguing story, interesting characters, and an amazing masterfully attuned musical composition. Music that seemed to fit each and every moment so perfectly. NOT and I repeat NOT the battle system. Perhaps the reason you see franchises extolling over their new and super-duper battle mechanics is because they're trying to lure NEW gamers into the genre. However we "true' rpg gamers know better. We know that in each and every rpg we play we're going to be treated to battle after battle after battle and its just too inherently repititive to gloat over. YES the traditional battle system of Final Fantasies was due for an overhaul, and yes I believe they succeeded in creating something fresh and worthwhile with the new one however.... It's simply not the "selling" point of an rpg and if you want to argue with me on this than I suppose we can just "agree to disagree" however you're going to have to explain yourself to many others besides just myself.

however its not praiseworthy when the rest of the game sucks.

[You have yet to give a solid argument as to why FFXII is an awful game.

And you've achieved mountaneous things in defending it. Look around, others are agreeing with me. I'll do my best in explaining why I found this game to be so hideously sub-par and if you still can't agree with me than I assure you it's not my problem. Perhaps we have different tastes, I can't say everyone will have the same experience. However as someone whos been playin FF since the release of III (US) and countless other rpgs I'm confident my sentiment will resonate with many others so you be the judge.

In an RPG, one travels, commonly through various environments that may range from dungeons to grand spires, most - if not all - are infested with fiends that wish to harm you. In FFVII on up, upon every attack, you are taken to another screen, and there and then, you fought whatever random encounter decided to "attack" you.

lol

If you can possibly give a valid argument as to how FFXII's seamless transition between dungeon crawling and battling is somehow more time-consuming or invasive in concerns to the story's pacing than that of previous FF's... I will be surprised.

Sure. The lack of involvement due to the abusing of gambits definately made it feel more time-consuming. Sure I could cast a spell here and there, however more often than not it just isn't necassary. All that's required of you is getting from point A to point B while letting your gambits do the all the work so you're essentially playing a game thats in auto-pilot. The boss fights, being as random as they often were, were really the only times I felt engaged. To make matters worse, there's rarely ... if ever that I can recall a point in which any actually interesting dialogue is going on between your party during these dungeon sloughs. Its usually only tidbits of information exchanged relevent to your task at hand, I guess to remind you why you're there in the first place just incase you forgot. Furthermore, in rpgs past, the monotony of dungeons is usually offset by obtaining treasure that actually contain something worthwhile. The inclusion of chests in FFXII is really suspect, as 90% of the time they never really contain something of more value than a couple of hundred gil, or a gambit that I typically already possess. That and tack on some very pointless trivial puzzle-solving and you got yourself a guaranteed 1 hour or more snoozefest upon entering a dungeon or new area. Afterwards in which you'll be treated with nothing more than what to do next or at best how the political tides of Ivalice have shifted. Rarely ever learning anything actually new about your party that depthens them, especially if its not Ashe, Balthier, or Basche, who I'd argue are really the only characters in your party relevent to the story. Speaking of which..

As for the character development being "fair and decent" ... Well really I dont know how you could come to that conclusion, Vaan's persepective never deviates from "I hate the empire cus my brother was killed and I wanna be a sky pirate!" Its laughable .. 50 hours into the game nearly having beaten it and he still is no different. We learn nothing of him. All this while hes supposed to be the "main character" ... wtf?

If you look at it more closely, Vaan is not the main character.

Unlike many other FF's or RPGs, FFXII did not have a "one" hero character, but was rather a story of political intrigue and conflict that these characters are caught up in.

Look at Ashe, Baltheir, Fran.... Every character is dynamic to a degree, so saying that they are completely static is rash. Additionally, complaining that a character holds onto a set motive seems... strange to me, as there are particular things that motivate people/characters for their entire lives, and justifiably so.

First you start off playing as Vaan, he's also the character featured in front of everyone on the box. While it is true he is not the typical "main character" we have been given in games past, it seems as if it is atleast implied he is a feature character ... and thats shocking when considering the story could have gotten by just fine without him. His role in this game can be reduced to arbitrarily asking "what is this? what is that? You mean to tell me ___" and many many equally asinine variations whos mode is merely to advance the story in an all-too predictable manner. sigh... Ok lets see.. Penello, well not much to say here, shes along for the ride to save the world cus she wants to be around Vaan. Even "wildcard" characters in the past such as Cait Sith had atleast good REASON to be along with your party, despite them not receiving much development, which in FFXII's case was the norm rather than the exception. Fran and Balthier. Fran's pretty funny cus we really never learn why she is travelling alongside Balthier other than just some vague "do-goodery" intentions that seems to prevail with everyone in the party. We're "treated" to some rather dull and brief bits about her past (SPOILER)and seperating herself from the wood and the Vierra and we get the idea shes the outcast of her society but still ... thats barebones crap, she has some real potential but they just didn't bother to flesh it out. 60 hours of gameplay down the dumper and still ... why is she Balthier's companion? Who the hell is she really?.. Balthier is refreshing cus his personality and manner of speach isn't so god damn robotic like all the others, and he seemingly has ties with the story (SPOILER)because his father being the head researcher of the draclore labaratory so atleast that puts him above the competition. Ashe and Basche. Again I think these characters are more victim to the theme of this game's focus on the grand scheme of the political spectrum ( which was overral trite and predictable evil empire oppressing smaller weaker nations crap with not a whole lot inbetween ) rather than the characters themselves. They had potential but when I examine Ashe I just dont properly feel her sense of urgency and responsibility, its just the vague do-goodery stuff that she wishes to protect and liberate her country but with her character being so 1-dimensional its almost like it doesn't allow me to relate. and why does she have to be so flat, can't her attitude change ... at all to keep things interesting if anything else. Basche is eh well just victim of more of the same flaws.

I think what we're looking at here is exploiting these characters just as a vehicle to progress their CGI-bound story and thats it. Which is both a waste and a radical departure from any "good" rpg I've ever played. It's as if they thought that we would be so engrossed in their "epic" story and all the pretty graphics we wouldn't stop to notice. Ultimately if you dont give your characters proper attention, the story itself becomes somewhat null and void. Final Fantasies in the past understood this and it showed, (SPOILER)we cared when Aeris died, we cared when Vivi was reconciling his fear with his finite lifespan, we cared when Tidus dematerialised at the end. The characters in FFXII are so soulless compared to this.

and then, theres the music. Oh god it makes me miss Nobuo Uematsu so bad. After having beaten it I dont think I could remember a single track from the game let alone like it. They are that forgettable.

You complain because it is different, not because it is sub-par.

Music's role in an rpg is paramount, it's what really captivates you and draws you in the moment. An example we often hear is Aeris music (SPOILER)after she dies - perfect, but in a well composed OST even the town music will be "fitting" to that particular environment. In FFXII I found it to be dull, unimpressionable, and pretty generic to me but then again maybe it doesn't matter since that usually sums up my feelings about any given moment in the game. Props to you if you actually like it. It just all sounded so plain and uninspired ... like the composer wasn't really working as closely with the game devs on what exactly he was composing for other than "generic happy town theme" ... the game did go through a few of management overhauls as I understand it so that might explain it. As for me not liking it cus its "different" .. nice try but no. I've run the gamut of rpgs with my favorite OSTs being Chrono Cross, FFVI, and FFVII ... all of which sound quite different from eachother - one being on the snes and the other two composed by different people.