Can someone's moral beliefs be stupid?

[Roto13]

If someone believes something is ethically wrong for the wrong reasons, does that make that belief a stupid belief?

Side topic: Do you believe religion is a valid excuse for moral beliefs (say being against women wearing pants instead of dresses or burkas) without any logic behind them?

[Flying Mullet]

Since everyone's morals and ethics are relative, I don't think it makes them stupid.

[Roto13]

They're not relative. Morals aren't just a set of rules you live by. They're what you believe to be right or wrong. If you believe pre-marital sex is morally wrong, it doesn't just mean you don't want to have sex before marriage, it means you think people who do have sex before marriage are doing something bad.

[Flying Mullet]

Fine, I'll bite. Religious people believe homosexuality is wrong because of the code of conduct, morals and such that their religion lays out. Does this make them stupid? No. Does it make them ignorant? Yes. I don't think stupid and ignorant are the same thing.

[Aerith's Knight]

If someone believes something is ethically wrong for the wrong reasons, does that make that belief a stupid belief?

Side topic: Do you believe religion is a valid excuse for moral beliefs (say being against women wearing pants instead of dresses or burkas) without any logic behind them?

That is something very strange to say. If you have a belief.. and the belief says something, how can there be no logic behind them?

If it says: "Do not kill"

Is there any logic behind it? to ask that question is just stupid in itself.. the logic behind it is that you dont kill, so there is always logic behind it.. as the logic behind a rule is that you dont break it. why dont you kill.. because people die otherwise.. Why cant women wear pants in some religion.. i dont know, why dont you google it instead of making this thread, and actually learn something.

what you want to say is whether you see any logic behind it.. and without proper understanding and knowledge, which you obviously dont have.. you cant.

[blackmage_nuke]

OOC--Im against the logic behind neck ties - theyre completely useless and you wear them to look "formal". They make it seem like if you dont wear a tie you look unprofessional, same thing with long hair and facial hair, "lets judge people by their appearance besides what theyre like as people", its like an accepted form of racism, it makes no sense!

Oh and i believe people can believe and do what they want as long as they dont hurt anyone try to force it on others. If the belief makes stupid and restricts them from ever wearing pants then so be it

[Randgris]

Well everyone is entitled to his/her own set of beliefs and no single person is right enough to question that. I think what those people really need to do is to understand other people's beliefs, regardless of it being morally right or wrong based on their own's beliefs.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

They're not relative. Morals aren't just a set of rules you live by. They're what you believe to be right or wrong. If you believe pre-marital sex is morally wrong, it doesn't just mean you don't want to have sex before marriage, it means you think people who do have sex before marriage are doing something bad.

*deep breath* Morals and ethics are technically two different things. Long story short: morals are more or less decided by the community and your background. Thus if you were raised in a community where pre-martial sex is wrong, your morals include pre-marital sex as wrong. Yet, if you from a personal stance decide that pre-martial sex is right and have pre-martial sex, you are making an ethical choice. This would make your choice immoral but ethical.

So yes, you can be moral but unethical; moral and ethical; immoral and unethical; or immoral but ethical.

[/tangent]

[Roto13]

That is something very strange to say. If you have a belief.. and the belief says something, how can there be no logic behind them?

If it says: "Do not kill"

Is there any logic behind it? to ask that question is just stupid in itself.. the logic behind it is that you dont kill, so there is always logic behind it.. as the logic behind a rule is that you dont break it. why dont you kill.. because people die otherwise..

Oh, look, the logic behind the belief that killing is (generally) wrong. You just proved that there's a sensible reason to believe that it's wrong to kill people. Congratulations. Even though it appears to be a total fluke.

what you want to say is whether you see any logic behind it.. and without proper understanding and knowledge, which you obviously dont have.. you cant.

Go ahead and try to justify something like masturbation being wrong. Go ahead and outline why it's a bad thing that people shouldn't do. I know enough about it to know there's no good reason to be against it if done in the privacy of your own home with nobody around to be affected by it. If the people against it have had since the dawn of time to come up with a reason against it without lying (ie: claiming it makes you go blind) but the best they can do is "because I said so", odds are there is no good reason and therefor the belief that masturbation is wrong is stupid.

[The Summoner of Leviathan]

That is something very strange to say. If you have a belief.. and the belief says something, how can there be no logic behind them?

If it says: "Do not kill"

Is there any logic behind it? to ask that question is just stupid in itself.. the logic behind it is that you dont kill, so there is always logic behind it.. as the logic behind a rule is that you dont break it. why dont you kill.. because people die otherwise..

Oh, look, the logic behind the belief that killing is (generally) wrong. You just proved that there's a sensible reason to believe that it's wrong to kill people. Congratulations. Even though it appears to be a total fluke.

Actually, if you look at the socio-historical aspect of the Ten Commandments, there is logical reasons behind them.

[Flying Mullet]

Very true. They were derived to promote harmony amongst the tribe/clan which allowed them to prosper. If there was rampant killings, adultery or stealing then the tribe would fall apart and they would be easy pickings for rival groups.

[Aerith's Knight]

That is something very strange to say. If you have a belief.. and the belief says something, how can there be no logic behind them?

If it says: "Do not kill"

Is there any logic behind it? to ask that question is just stupid in itself.. the logic behind it is that you dont kill, so there is always logic behind it.. as the logic behind a rule is that you dont break it. why dont you kill.. because people die otherwise..

Oh, look, the logic behind the belief that killing is (generally) wrong. You just proved that there's a sensible reason to believe that it's wrong to kill people. Congratulations. Even though it appears to be a total fluke.

what you want to say is whether you see any logic behind it.. and without proper understanding and knowledge, which you obviously dont have.. you cant.

Go ahead and try to justify something like masturbation being wrong. Go ahead and outline why it's a bad thing that people shouldn't do. I know enough about it to know there's no good reason to be against it if done in the privacy of your own home with nobody around to be affected by it. If the people against it have had since the dawn of time to come up with a reason against it without lying (ie: claiming it makes you go blind) but the best they can do is "because I said so", odds are there is no good reason and therefor the belief that masturbation is wrong is stupid.

Something you might not know, as you are getting personal now. The pope is the one who says that.. There might be something in the bible, but alot of it is interpretation.. and as i dont follow the pope, i dont believe mastrubation is wrong. And you still havent gotten my point.. you obviously dont know the reason behind the morals(or ethics as i should say) that people have, and therefore just say its stupid.

*snip*
[mulley]This may not be EoEO, but we still treat each other with respect. - Flying Mullet[/mulley]

*cough*

that will be all.

[Roto13]

That is something very strange to say. If you have a belief.. and the belief says something, how can there be no logic behind them?

If it says: "Do not kill"

Is there any logic behind it? to ask that question is just stupid in itself.. the logic behind it is that you dont kill, so there is always logic behind it.. as the logic behind a rule is that you dont break it. why dont you kill.. because people die otherwise..

Oh, look, the logic behind the belief that killing is (generally) wrong. You just proved that there's a sensible reason to believe that it's wrong to kill people. Congratulations. Even though it appears to be a total fluke.

Actually, if you look at the socio-historical aspect of the Ten Commandments, there is logical reasons behind them.

Yeah. And for the most part, they make a lot of sense. I think we can all agree that "Do not kill unjustly" has some pretty solid reasoning behind it.

That is something very strange to say. If you have a belief.. and the belief says something, how can there be no logic behind them?

If it says: "Do not kill"

Is there any logic behind it? to ask that question is just stupid in itself.. the logic behind it is that you dont kill, so there is always logic behind it.. as the logic behind a rule is that you dont break it. why dont you kill.. because people die otherwise..

Oh, look, the logic behind the belief that killing is (generally) wrong. You just proved that there's a sensible reason to believe that it's wrong to kill people. Congratulations. Even though it appears to be a total fluke.

what you want to say is whether you see any logic behind it.. and without proper understanding and knowledge, which you obviously dont have.. you cant.

Go ahead and try to justify something like masturbation being wrong. Go ahead and outline why it's a bad thing that people shouldn't do. I know enough about it to know there's no good reason to be against it if done in the privacy of your own home with nobody around to be affected by it. If the people against it have had since the dawn of time to come up with a reason against it without lying (ie: claiming it makes you go blind) but the best they can do is "because I said so", odds are there is no good reason and therefor the belief that masturbation is wrong is stupid.

Something you might not know, as you are getting personal now. The pope is the one who says that.. There might be something in the bible, but alot of it is interpretation.. and as i dont follow the pope, i dont believe mastrubation is wrong. And you still havent gotten my point.. you obviously dont know the reason behind the morals(or ethics as i should say) that people have, and therefore just say its stupid.

What makes you assume that I don't know the reasoning behind it? I wasn't born yesterday. These aren't new ideas by any means. The anti-masturbation thing was to keep followers horny and making babies and increasing the ranks. It's still dumb.

[Aerith's Knight]

that comment.. thats how i know you dont know.

Self-contradiction, thy name is Roto13

Ive had enough of this now.. have fun in your own little world.

[Roto13]

Like I said, feel free to explain it if you think you know the answer and it's not that.