Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Hell the three most abusive spells (Magic Hammer, White Wind, and Mighty Guard) are openly used by their monsters, so it doesn't take long to figure out who you need to manipulate.
I just have to say that's not true, well sorta. On the first disc, White Wind is only available (pretty sure) on the first continent, and you can only get it after obtaining manipulate on the second. Alot of players probably don't know you can boat back to the first, much less think about going there.

Anyway, good post Wolf Kanno. Nice to see more intelligent points raised about the game
Thank you, its nice to see more well thought out debates. I'm certain, Bolivar and The Crystal are bored with me and my cynical view.
Not at all, your posts at least bring up debatable material and some actual insight (every now and then of course )


Quote Originally Posted by WK
Statistics? Weapon Class? In VII? Seriously, I found the statistics in VI were far more important than VII. Materia never seemed to create major changes in my parties stats. I've played this game half a dozen times and I never noticed major changes. Its not that I don't believe they exist but I just never felt they made any difference either for the better or for the worse. The only obvious change was hp and mp and with the mediocre difficulty I never felt low hp was a serious threat since very few enemies can do serious damage until the end of the game. Cloud and Aerith are the only two characters with significant stat differences and the rest have such minor changes its like debating about the statistical difference of your party in VIII which most would agree is irrelevant. Hell stats don't mean anything once you get the Ultimate weapons.

Weapons? If you are talking about long range, it rarely had any tactical advantage except in two boss fights, which I don't consider a very compelling use of its versatility. IV made better use of long range weapons than VII did. The only person who had a gimp weapon was Aerith but its obvious she was designed to be a traditional mage character.
I never said the stat meanings/effects were stellar. I simply said they are there, and it is indeed noticeable, however minor, that you will hit for less and have less hp if magic materia is equipped. And likewise, Barret and Tifa will never become as good mages as Cloud or Red XIII. That's not really debatable.

In VI, however, the first espers you get have the opportunity to (permanently) teach your characters -ara class spells. To even use your own example - I usually give Cyan Ramuh for the +1 Stamina bonus. Despite your assurance that giving such characters magic is pointless, it doesn't change the fact that for a good point in the game Cyan tears through multiple enemies at a time with Thundara.

The only point I made about weapons was that it distinguished characters, each one had their own distinct weapon class, while many of them, such as swords and daggers overlap in VI. And there are more than "rare" instances when ranged weapons make a difference - we could go down the list of fliers, or settle for the fact that such a large quantity of battles have front and back rows of enemies.

Outside of giving Cyan buff spells and healing magic, he's a lousy mage. Hell if VI didn't have the three uber broken weapons, Terra would be a lousy warrior. If Locke didn't have the Valiant Knife he would be all but useless cause he's an ok fighter and a mediocre mage at best. Course VI does smurf it all up with character specific super weapons but not everyone got one.
I gotta flip your own argument on you on this one. Not only did I provide the -ara example, but at the end of the game, any character with -aga spells are going to do some damage, simple and plain. And, ironically, in VI the stat differences are not big enough to hinder Terra's ability as a warrior. Give her any sword as it becomes available and she'll probably rock with it. Not as much as Edgar, but still. And Locke does get a good flux of unique weapons all throughout the game - I know this is getting a little too technical, just thought I'd throw it in

Outside of long range the party weapons offer little in special ability (mostly cause the materia system made it pointless to do so) occasionally you get a weapon that changes materia growth or one that powers up when an ally dies but that's it.
Actually, there are plenty of weapons throughout the game that calls for the player to make a choice, whether it be little to no materia slots for higher ATK, or the growth issue. Just because you only remember the Yoshiyuki doesn't mean they're not there.

As for the stat growth, it is powerful and quite deep.
While I agree with, and definately use, the principles of comparative advantage you talk about on every playthrough, I have to say you're really exaggerating here. Maybe you honestly believe this, but I've played VI plenty of times, and I just can't agree at all. Cyan and Edgar will be killer tanks throughout the game, no matter what espers you give them.

Not monotonous? it still requires grinding to get anywhere, and if your silly enough to want high level magic, that's even more grinding.
I was simply referring to the casual gamer being able to play through it without having to focus too much on numbers or dragging him/herself through boring dungeons which look exactly like the last one (It got old really fast in VI). Of course VII is hardly the most in-depth RPG battle system, but the quest for efficiency is there if you desire it, and I myself fine tune my strategy, even just a little, each time I play.

In earlier games, certain parties or job classes work better than others, in VII it only matters what your materia is.
Dude, that's like saying only jobs matter in III or V, or only equipment and spells matter in II, since the characters are even less distinct in those games than they are in VII. Actually, that's exactly what it's supposed to be, and I think all of those games have interesting systems, so it's hardly a fault at all. Just another cop out to bash the game.

Word.