The Nature of Kingdom Hearts

[PuPu]

I still say that the KH of World and KH of Men are two separate things. The evidence is in 358/2, since the KH outside TWTNW only appears after Roxas starts collecting hearts for Org. XIII. Were the hearts of men simply added to KH of Worlds, then KH would have always been visible from the Grey Room, but it wasn't.

The KH of Worlds was locked away in KH1, so Xemnas needed to KH of men in order for him to get the KH of worlds. After all, if he could already see the KH of worlds, he'd be fusing with it already.

Also, KH is definitely a place, since that is where the final battle in KHII occurs.

The part between entering the door and defeating Chair Xemnas 1 is not inside Kingdom Hearts. It is inside a world that Xemnas created using the power of Kingdom Hearts, similar to how when Sora fought Xemnas one-on-one, the Memory Skyscraper wasn't the actual one in TWTNW, it was just a place that Xemnas created.

Then you are back in the "real" TWNTW again after defeating Chair Xemnas 1, and then you go to the Realm of Nothing for Zebra Xemnas.

Xenmas takes control of the power of KH, that's how he "became one" and had power over it. I don't think it is inside him, the power yes not the physical KH.

That's not what "become one with" means. See: Roxas becomes one with Sora, Xion becomes one with Roxas, Naminé becomes one with Kairi, etc.

You might not want to call it a "world" but it is a place. Just because KH, whichever one you want, is the "Proof of Life" doesn't prevent it from being a place as well. As the final battle of KHII clearly indicates.

I'm sorry, but did you just say "A heart is a place"? Not that it matters, because if it isn't a world, then it doesn't have the barriers around that all the other worlds have.

The last battle in KHI happens in the Realm of Darkness, somewhere. Just a random place in the Realm of Darkness.

Uh, no. It was in a place in the Realm of In-between that was close to the Realm of Darkness. Riku and Mickey were the ones actually in the Realm of Darkness.

As for the barriers Wolf is mentioning it is the barriers between the worlds, not the one between the realms. To travel between realms you either use DTD, Door to Light or Dark Corridors, at least that is the only way they have shown so far. Apparently Twilight Town is close enough to the Realm of Light that you can just Gummi it.

What? SDG have easily been able to travel between Realm of In-between Worlds and Realm of Light Worlds in both KH1 and KH2.

The whole point of KH1 was to seal the world and prevent the Heartless from interfering and destroying the Heart of these individual worlds. One of Sora's missions in KH2 is creating pathways of light between the World's in the Realm of Light. How then can two separate worlds openly interfere with each other at the end of KH2 when its has been stated time and agin that the world's are separate by a barrier, not to mention the hell you have to go through to get from Twilight Town to The World That Never Was which was only accomplished by going through a Corridor of Darkness.

As Yen Sid said, the pathways that Sora made in KH2 were made specifically for him, not the Heartless, Org13, or anyone else. After all, the Heartless and Org13 were using their own paths, Dark Corridors.

You are basically saying the rules don't always apply. I mean if it was that easy to get from the Realm of Light to the Realm of Darkness by going through the In-Between Worlds what the smurf was Xehanort's Heartless even bothering with the DTD in KH1?

The DTD led him to the specific part of the Realm of Darkness with Kingdom Hearts, the thing which he thought was full of dark energy.

Seeing as how Heartless can still get into world's after they have had their Heart's sealed away shows that locking has limitations. They prevent the flood of Darkness into the Realm of Light but it still can't prevent entities from interacting between both worlds if they use Corridors of Darkness. Riku only made it to Castle Oblivion cause "his heart led him to Sora".

Xemnas didn't go to Kingdom Hearts. He made the KH of worlds go to him, by using his KH of men.

I don't mean to create confusion by saying its a world in the sense that KH series defines a world, I just mean to imply it is a physical place and not a philosophical abstract thought like VII's "Promised Land". The fact of the matter is you can journey and get there cause its a place you can travel to.

Are you also saying a heart is a place? And guess what? I can journey my way over to my TV, but I wouldn't call my TV a place.

It is partially contradicting or at least bad writing as Xehanort's Heartless as well as the Disney Villains bust there asses to create the Final Keyhole and open the DTD to reach Kingdom Hearts whereas Organization XIII simply forms one in there backyard.

Are you joking? It took ~10 years since Birth By Sleep for Xemnas and the Organization to create Heartless out of people and then collect all of those hearts in order to make the KH of men. It took nearly just as long for XH and Maleficent & friends to find the Princesses of Hearts as well.

having easy access to it despite Maleficent and Xehanort's Heartless having the same powers to travel to the Realm of Darkness.

It's not like you can just go to the Realm of Darkness and randomly search for it. That's like a one in infinity chance of finding something in an entire dimension, not to mention that knowing KH, it probably isn't just going to let people get near it to absorb its power.

I would say the End of the World is a real location, temporary but hardly random. It also a place that cannot be accessed openly without the Final Keyhole, I would say that constitutes a "specific location".

I'm sorry, did you just call a giant door, a place?

Considering the nature of the Heartless and the End of the World as well as their correlations to the Realm of Darkness

What does this even mean?

I can't see the DTD opening anywhere else in the KH universe.

But you did, and you can't just go "nu-uh, it's only supposed to open in one place by this one method in KH1!"

If it appeared in the World That Never Was, Xehanort's Heartless could just pluck KH out of the sky

KH didn't appear in TWTNW.

...that makes the first game seem retarded and a waste of time since KH can be down the street...

...which could only be accessed by collecting several billions of hearts...

No, KH is magically in the World That Never Was that is in the In-between Realm. Yes, its close to the Realm of Darkness but its still stated by Nomura to not be a direct part of the Realm of Darkness.

In this quote, made up lies. At this point, I shouldn't even bother continuing until you show me the actual evidence.

The Major error comes from the simple fact that this World, stated to be specifically in the Realm of In-Between by the creator, can freely access the Realm of Darkness.

Lol, no. Xemnas didn't go to KH in the Realm of Darkness. He made KH come to him, in TWTNW. Notice that after you defeat Chair Xemnas 1, you're right back in TWTNW.

Even after beating Xemnas, Sora and Riku find themselves at the dark coastline which is stated by Nomura to still not be a part of the Realm of Darkness but as close as you can get. Between the In-Between World and the Realm of Darkness

They never went to the Realm of Darkness during the battle with Xemnas, so I don't see your point.

Once again, how can Xemnas and Org. XIII interact with a KH in an In-Between World when it is stated to be in the Realm of Darkness and there is a clear dividing line between this world and that realm?

Xemnas and the Org never went into the Realm of Darkness, the Hearts did. And once again, the KH of men is not in TWTNW.

Yes, KH forms in the Realm of Darkness, World That Never Was is not part of the Realm of Darkness, yet KH forms in this Wolrd no less. Thank you for proving this inconsistency.

There's just one little problem with what you said. That it's wrong.

XH believed KH true nature was darkness... I would say he cared about the whole package since he believed KH to be darkness.

And the difference is that Xemnas cared about specifically the entire power of hearts, whereas XH only cared about the darkness that happens to come from hearts.

I'm also curious to know where you came up with Xemnas' plan to combine the Hearts of World with the Hearts of Men since I don't remember him ever stating such a grandiose plan nor do I remember Saix saying anything like that, even the quote above simply refers to Hearts returning to darkness and forming KH which is something stated more or less in KH1. Is this another reference to 358/2?

I can see why that post is somewhat confusing. Saix didn't say that Xemnas combined the two, but he did say that Xemnas made the KH of men. But again, if you remember that Ansem the Wise blew a huge hole into KH, and Xemnas said that he'll needed to "start all over again" and then told the Keybladers to "bring him more hearts" obviously his KH of men got ruined and started raining hearts. But he still managed to absorb KH's power, the KH of World's power that is.

No, because it disagrees with its own metaphysics stated by the creator. As I said, he states worlds are separate, forces the player through hoops to overcome these basic rules of the game universe and then turns around and has the villains break all the rules yet never explain how they did.

-The pathways created in KH2 were for Sora only.
-Villains use Dark Corridor hax.

He even has one set of villains go through hell and back to reach it and another set have the easiest time getting it and are only restricted by minor details.

Finding 7 Princesses in an entire dimension vs. collecting billions of hearts

Yeah, real difference in difficulty there.

and create what appears to be a new KH in their own world despite players knowing that the original KH is somewhere in the Realm of Darkness.

And the players should know that they are looking at the KH of men that Xemnas created in the Realm of Darkness, since it's easy to see the Realm of Darkness from TWTNW. I'm still not getting how you think the KH of men is in TWTNW and not the Realm of Darkness.

If KH can be artifically created, how did Xemnas do it?

...by taking billions of hearts and having them cluster together. You literally see him do it in KH2.

How could he stop hearts from returning to the KH in the Realm of Darkness?

They don't normally return to KH, they return to their original bodies, as said in the DSR13.