Did you like FINAL FANTASY XII?

[Shin Gouken]

This is the ultimate cop out excuse that I hear time and time and time and time and time and time and time again. Story is not just a personal opinion. Yes to a degree it certainly is, but when there are real flaws and real gaps and bad pacing and much less actual dialogue and substance (all of these can be demonstrated), to say that "it is only opinion if you don't like that" is just a major cop out for the flaws.

Yes if you liked the story that is an opinion, however, if I can demonstrate that FF7,8,9,10 and 13 have much more going on and much more character devlopment (and they do, this is a FACT), then yes the statement that "The character devlopment was very poor" is completely true when comparing these games.

It isn't a flaw. FFXII was designed to focus less on the characters and story and more on exploration and gameplay. Basically the opposite to FFXIII. The characters in XII are the least developed in the series, but that is only a problem if you thrive on character development, which means that this IS a personal preference and matter of opinion.

What was realistic about searching for nethecite (sp?)? What was realistic about fighting a random boss who had nothing at all to do with the main plot (see 7,8,9,10 where you are always coming across main plot battles, Rufus, Palmer, Edea, Seifer to name a few of dozens)? This plot was pseudo Political, it gives great orgasms to people who think they are intellectual if they enjoy it and anyone who doesn't isn't "deep enough". Well sorry, the story was poor, the pacing was a joke, the development was extremely poor and thus I don't think I am being unfair calling it crap overall.

What actually happens in XII? Well, the game manual actually tells you almost everything without you having to play the game. Yes it really does. A wannabe sky pirate called Vaan ends up in a quest to save a place from a take over. That is it. We learn nothing more about Vaan than "I want to be a sky pirate" Please tell me what else we learned about him during the course of the game that we didn't know from the first hour of play?

*Sigh* Did you play the game? The empire are manufacturing a weapon that can destroy their enemy in a single blow. They spend alot of time trying to manouver Rozzaria and the Insurgance into combining their might and launching a full frontal assault, which would allow the empire to destroy them both. Knowing this, your party are desperatley trying to avert war.

Vaans character is irrelevent, he is the eyes that we see events unfolding from, why should we be bombarded with useless information about him? If you like character development, you're playing the wrong game.

We have characters in this game that have absolutely no reason to be in your party. Fran and Balthier just tag along and so does Penelo. Penelo being the one who also has less character development than Gogo from VI. Ultimate insult coming with the pathetic narration job she does at the end of the game. Don't make me LAUGH.

Then we come to Ashe. And again we can sum her entire existence and plot up by "Her Kingdom is in disarray and she needs nethecite"

is any of this following a pattern yet? It sure as hell is with me.

Then we have Vayne Solidor...who is supposedly the baddie. He has less lines than an NPC (Hyperbole). And then at the end he suddenly turns into a big bad monster. We have no idea of his aspirations, his wants, his drives. Except of course "I want to take over X kingdom" and ...well that is it...

is this pattern becoming clearer?

Vayne is power hungry. How are his motives any less defined than Kefka's or Sephirophs. I wouldn't compare Vayne to either Kefka or Sephiroph of course because he does indeed fall short of those more memorable characters, but why are you so obcessed with FFXII mimicing every other FF.

and we learned all of this from the character summaries. This IS NOT CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. It is a brief summary which we learn in the first hour or from the game manual. Just READ BACK WHAT YOU HAVE JUST WROTE. IT IS ALL THERE IS TO SAY ABOUT THEM. WHAT MORE DO YOU LEARN? PLEASE TELL US ALL!

Actually the points i made that got this response were aimed at why party members are in your party, NOT as an arguement to back up character depth.

You find lack of plot and development refreshing for a story.....can you run me through this immense logic?

Sure, i'll help you understand my logic. In many previous FF's to date, character development is overpowering and suffocating. So much so that the plot is hindered to support it. In FFXIII nothing happens in chapters 2-8, it's all character focused. In FFVII, nothing happens regarding plot on disc two, again, it's all character focus. FFV and FFXII are my favorite FF's because they don't waste so much of my time on unessesary rubbish i could care less about. This is another example of each to their own, not a flaw in the game, because as i said before, the game was intended to be this way with it's focus on the gameplay.

Exceptions do not alter rules.

This was the most obvious example. Go visit the Nabreus deadlands or the Necrohol of Nabudis.

The main bulk of the game I used cure and Attack. And at the end I learned about a monster which you could just leave your game machine on all night. Do you think I was stupid enough to level up by watching my character hack and slash needlessly for 20 hours? I would rather pull my teeth out with pliers! I think that is the biggest joke about this game, you could actually go bed overnight and let the machine fight for you without any interaction. That is how we best sum up this ridiculous little battle system.

The prepartions and knowledge you need to set up against this flaw would have required you to source this information online. If you went through the trouble of locating and spawning said enemy and arranging the complex gambit set up needed then it is a clear example of you abusing the system.

The battle system (again) is for the player to decide how he/she wishes to use it. Organize it to suit your playing style. It gives you the choice to do so which makes any arguement regarding it redundent.

Which leaves you at a severe disadvantage and makes the game even more painful. So no it isn't an option. It is forcing you.

I thought you only used attack and cure? You can't be arsed playing through the entire game just using attack and cure, you had to make the game do it for you? How lazy are you?

Again, switch off gambits, problem solved. Having trouble keeping up with the pace of battle, lower the battle speed. Try arranging a few less gambits, or perhaps try utalizing the system a little more. The system isn't flawed. People abuse it and complain after doing so.

No, it is called bad/lazy planning and design and a step backwards.

FFXII allows you to designate "Jobs" or "Classes" to your characters. Again, you want it done for you which is another case of you being too lazy to play the game.

I said the sound quality, not the acting.

So we're at least agreed the voice acting was good.

No, I didn't forget about it, that was a 1 off, and you can't use exceptions to break the rule. EX.II was a quest to complete the game in 12 hours, it was nothing at all to do with the main quest of ultimate weapons. And in XII as I said, all you do is find it by grinding. There is nothing clever to it like having to beat the game in 12 hours. That was a challenge, this was an excuse to make you buy a guide so you knew which chests not to open. That isn't the same thing.

It isn't a one off. There is a thread somewhere where someone was nice enough to detail pretty much the same flaw in most every FF.

Which generally gave you a few gil and was an awful idea. Why on earth would it be good to have a few poxy gambits and gil out of chests and nothing of real merit?

This is another case of you being lazy and wanting everything handed to you.

I didn't insult anyone, I am afraid. I INSULTED THIS WORTHLESS GAME. It seems you took the attack on the game...personally. A typical flaw. But you can take this post for free and I won't be back to reply again as I feel my 3 posts stand up to scrutiny more than the usual and useless "he wants to be a sky pirate and has a bad brother" kind of responses....

I didn't take it personally, but your attitude is very unfair. Your arguements are mostly a matter of opinion and are not genuine faults, simply things you personally dislike. I apreciate you have no love for the game, but lots of us do and we'll happily argue it's case.