The Cardinal Sins of Game Design

[Ultima Shadow]

Almost any racing game. Absurd rubber band AI. This is why I stopped caring about Mario Kart.

Have you ever played Crash Team Racing? You don't have to worry about rubber band AI there. Of course, I stopped playing CTR because I can win every stinkin' time.

This. One of the many reasons I love CTR and even CNK much more than Mario Kart.

I also think the weapons are more balanced, except those stupid N.Throphy Clocks when fully charged. Those are kinda broken... unless you can jump off a cliff right as someone activates one (yes, you actually save time by doing that).

They soooooooo need to do a remake with online play.



Back on topic, another thing that bugs me is quests or whatever in RPGs related to finding a specific rare monster... combined with random encounters. It sucks to run around in circles for hours, hoping for that stupid 4% chance monster to show up during the next random encounter etc.

[Roto13]

Back on topic, another thing that bugs me is quests or whatever in RPGs related to finding a specific rare monster... combined with random encounters. It sucks to run around in circles for hours, hoping for that stupid 4% chance monster to show up during the next random encounter etc.

I quit the Dragon Quest IX post game for that. Too many side quests depended on that.

See also: Finding the necessary items to save Calca and Brina in Final Fantasy IV TAY.

[GhandiOwnsYou]

So you had a blast playing this game right? I mean really, you've played all the way through to the last level, you MUST enjoy the gameplay here. So we're going to shake things up a bit, and make the last bit of the game COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than the game you've been playing so far. Have fun dying repeatedly, turning your dramatic escape into a cavalcade of trial, error, and rote memorization. Notable Abusers: Devil May Cry, Halo, Portal

While I agree with the sentiment here, I disagree with your using Portal as an example. Every part of Portal up until the escape is meant to train you to use the Portal gun. To get you to learn what it can do, gradually build on what you learn, and get you to recognize situations and surfaces where it can be used, and how it can be used. The escape doesn't change anything except that you now have one long interconnected area to get through instead of smaller test chambers, and the visuals are different. But all of the situations that you encounter are ones you've already seen, and while there is more to see and do, that's the point. You're now an expert at using the Portal gun and it's time to throw you into an unfamiliar situation so you can really show off your skills.

I can see the argument behind Portal, and I actually typed and deleted it once or twice before I decided to stick it on there. I had ZERO issue with the escape, I thought it was handled rather brilliantly actually. My contention was with the show down against GLaDOS. The escape was the culmination of everything I think. You're running and blasting and dimension hopping all over the place, and even if it wasn't always time critical, you FELT like you had to be moving with a purpose. Boss fights just seemed like the type of thing that just didn't fit the vibe of the rest of the game. I felt like I was just manically trying to figure out WHERE the next personality core WAS, rather than using the skills I had developed thus far to get to it. I could definitely understand arguments for it, but for me, personally, it just seemed at odds with the play style of the rest of the game. Devil May Cry is really the worst offender on the list. NOW FLY THIS PLANE TROLOLOLOL. So much hate.

[Raistlin]

Back on topic, another thing that bugs me is quests or whatever in RPGs related to finding a specific rare monster... combined with random encounters. It sucks to run around in circles for hours, hoping for that stupid 4% chance monster to show up during the next random encounter etc.

Similar to that, having to find a super rare item that does not involve a quest or boss fight or any challenge, but just fighting the same simple random encounters over and over again. I'm looking at you, FFXII, Suikoden II.

[GhandiOwnsYou]

How about Water = Death. Seriously, the hero can topple elder gods, destroy entire cities, eliminate entire crime syndicates by their self, and take fifteen shotgun shells to the face at point blank range but auto-magically be okay by finding a first aid kit in a bathroom, but homie can't swim? That kinda drives me nuts. I understand we need to have reasons why you can't fall off a platform, or set borders on levels, but really. Can't we come up with some other reason other than the savior-warrior-adventurer-god character never learned to doggy paddle?

[Alpha2099]

How about Water = Death. Seriously, the hero can topple elder gods, destroy entire cities, eliminate entire crime syndicates by their self, and take fifteen shotgun shells to the face at point blank range but auto-magically be okay by finding a first aid kit in a bathroom, but homie can't swim? That kinda drives me nuts. I understand we need to have reasons why you can't fall off a platform, or set borders on levels, but really. Can't we come up with some other reason other than the savior-warrior-adventurer-god character never learned to doggy paddle?

Agreed. It amazes me how many games incorporate water as a death device.

[Roto13]

Eh. Water deaths are just different-looking bottomless pits. Mechanically, they're the same thing.

[VeloZer0]

I would be fun to have a quick cut scene of your armor dragging you down to the bottom and drowning every time you enter water.

[Wolf Kanno]

I've mellowed out over the years, I'm not as easily annoyed by some things anymore. Rare item drops crap just means I don't bother, because I stopped being anal about being a completionist and I like that they do give me some incentive to come back to a game.

My cardinal sins:

This is for JRPGs specifically, though Final Fantasy/Squenix are easily the sole offenders on the market. Building gameplay around the post game. I am sick and tired of having the main storyline quest be incredible easy and downright tedious just because all the best equipment and abilities are designed to be used for all the super hardcore bosses that unlock around the time the final dungeon opens up. It makes the story part feel like a chore, it also makes it feel super linear cause often there is nothing to do until the end of the game, and the main storyline is usually ridiculously easy cause the leveling system is designed for those end game creatures and I can still get access to those infinity +1 swords before I ever run into the ultimate monsters. It doesn't help that the post-game is also mainly a giant grindfest to face off against stronger monsters and nothing more. FFX and FFXIII are easily the biggest offenders.

Creating a game around a specific gameplay mechanic, but then clumsily throwing in another gameplay mechanic to make it appeal to a larger audience. I'm looking at you Mirror's Edge, you have a great FP platforming experience and the challenge is just trying to get the right rhythm to keep going continuously. Then you decided we had to have some unskippable forced combat sequences, except you poorly designed it and it really runs counter to the game's story and characters, for what? So Little Bobby Boy can get an FPS fix? smurf you.

The Action Stealth genre - You don't exist. You're always one, with a few elements of the other, but you have never been able to balance both. I'm sad that stealth seems to have lost the relevance battle and seems to be dead. Not to mention you spend so much time balancing one aspect you once again leave the other horribly unbalanced. Old Snake is a literal one man army in MGS4, so who needs stealth? Altair and Ezio are murdering machines, who have become even more overpowered in combat with each new entry in the franchise. I just miss the days when stealth actually meant something and victory actually hinged on it instead of success just meaning I don't get to do a 10 minute one sided killing spree. Granted AC does give you missions where stealth is imperative and being discovered means auto-failure, so it might be making a comeback, I'm just sad my favorite series has trivialized it after they were the ones that put the genre on the gaming map.

[krissy]

The Action Stealth genre - You don't exist. You're always one, with a few elements of the other, but you have never been able to balance both. I'm sad that stealth seems to have lost the relevance battle and seems to be dead. Not to mention you spend so much time balancing one aspect you once again leave the other horribly unbalanced. Old Snake is a literal one man army in MGS4, so who needs stealth? Altair and Ezio are murdering machines, who have become even more overpowered in combat with each new entry in the franchise. I just miss the days when stealth actually meant something and victory actually hinged on it instead of success just meaning I don't get to do a 10 minute one sided killing spree. Granted AC does give you missions where stealth is imperative and being discovered means auto-failure, so it might be making a comeback, I'm just sad my favorite series has trivialized it after they were the ones that put the genre on the gaming map.

yes! the only time you really needed to be stealthy in mgs4 was that first part of the prague mission...
although in deus ex it is a fun way to go through the game...you don't have to, but you have the option.

[Slothy]

I've mellowed out over the years, I'm not as easily annoyed by some things anymore.

I find that funny because I find that as I've gotten older I've become more bitter and hateful when it comes to things I consider bad game design. Stuff I used to tolerate all the time even 10-15 years ago pisses me off to the point that I abandon some games entirely.

Creating a game around a specific gameplay mechanic, but then clumsily throwing in another gameplay mechanic to make it appeal to a larger audience. I'm looking at you Mirror's Edge, you have a great FP platforming experience and the challenge is just trying to get the right rhythm to keep going continuously. Then you decided we had to have some unskippable forced combat sequences, except you poorly designed it and it really runs counter to the game's story and characters, for what? So Little Bobby Boy can get an FPS fix? smurf you.

I agree with the general sentiment, but I disagree mostly with using Mirror's Edge as your example. Only because there are very few combat sequences which aren't avoidable if you really want to just run, and even less which involve being in combat for more than 10-20 seconds at a time. It does get quite bad towards the end, but I actually found that almost a welcome change of pace as combat is introduced quite gradually in the game. The only part that really annoyed me was the fight with the masked runner on the ship. That was absolutely an unwelcome pain in the ass.

[VeloZer0]

This is for JRPGs specifically, though Final Fantasy/Squenix are easily the sole offenders on the market. Building gameplay around the post game. I am sick and tired of having the main storyline quest be incredible easy and downright tedious just because all the best equipment and abilities are designed to be used for all the super hardcore bosses that unlock around the time the final dungeon opens up. It makes the story part feel like a chore, it also makes it feel super linear cause often there is nothing to do until the end of the game, and the main storyline is usually ridiculously easy cause the leveling system is designed for those end game creatures and I can still get access to those infinity +1 swords before I ever run into the ultimate monsters. It doesn't help that the post-game is also mainly a giant grindfest to face off against stronger monsters and nothing more. FFX and FFXIII are easily the biggest offenders.

The funny thing is this would be super easily fixed with a few triggers thrown in to strengthen the last boss/dungeon based on what post game you had accomplished. FF7 even had shades of this by giving Sephiroth more HP the more characters you have at level 99 or if you used KotR earlier on Jenova. This is so easy to do.

[Jessweeee♪]

Inconsistent camera controls. Ideally, first person is normal, third person is inverted. First person you are moving the head. Third person you're moving a camera swinging around the character. Bonus points if a game let's me adjust for both POVs. If I can't have this, okay fine, but I at least want it to be consistent. Both axes are normal or they are both inverted. If one axis is inverted and the other isn't I will scream

How about Water = Death. Seriously, the hero can topple elder gods, destroy entire cities, eliminate entire crime syndicates by their self, and take fifteen shotgun shells to the face at point blank range but auto-magically be okay by finding a first aid kit in a bathroom, but homie can't swim? That kinda drives me nuts. I understand we need to have reasons why you can't fall off a platform, or set borders on levels, but really. Can't we come up with some other reason other than the savior-warrior-adventurer-god character never learned to doggy paddle?

My favorite was drowning in a fountain in Assassin's Creed.

[Wolf Kanno]

Creating a game around a specific gameplay mechanic, but then clumsily throwing in another gameplay mechanic to make it appeal to a larger audience. I'm looking at you Mirror's Edge, you have a great FP platforming experience and the challenge is just trying to get the right rhythm to keep going continuously. Then you decided we had to have some unskippable forced combat sequences, except you poorly designed it and it really runs counter to the game's story and characters, for what? So Little Bobby Boy can get an FPS fix? smurf you.

I agree with the general sentiment, but I disagree mostly with using Mirror's Edge as your example. Only because there are very few combat sequences which aren't avoidable if you really want to just run, and even less which involve being in combat for more than 10-20 seconds at a time. It does get quite bad towards the end, but I actually found that almost a welcome change of pace as combat is introduced quite gradually in the game. The only part that really annoyed me was the fight with the masked runner on the ship. That was absolutely an unwelcome pain in the ass.

I disagree that it wasn't a deal breaker. The combat system is just awful in this game and while I can appreciate trying to find effective ways to not engage the enemy and escape as being fun, the actual sequences where you are forced to stand your ground and fight are just so frsutrating, with awful controls, with your character being incredibly ineffective in a fightcause most guards can pistol whip you once and have you almost dead, and some of the most awkward counter timing controls I've ever encountered in a game, it's like they purposely made them troutty cause they didn't want you to win. These segments are so atrocious I stopped playing the game, especially since as I said, even from a story perspective, it's out of character for the MC to be fighting directly and using guns to gun down people. It is the most glaring fault in an otherwise, good game. You have no idea how much I hate these sequences.

This is for JRPGs specifically, though Final Fantasy/Squenix are easily the sole offenders on the market. Building gameplay around the post game. I am sick and tired of having the main storyline quest be incredible easy and downright tedious just because all the best equipment and abilities are designed to be used for all the super hardcore bosses that unlock around the time the final dungeon opens up. It makes the story part feel like a chore, it also makes it feel super linear cause often there is nothing to do until the end of the game, and the main storyline is usually ridiculously easy cause the leveling system is designed for those end game creatures and I can still get access to those infinity +1 swords before I ever run into the ultimate monsters. It doesn't help that the post-game is also mainly a giant grindfest to face off against stronger monsters and nothing more. FFX and FFXIII are easily the biggest offenders.

The funny thing is this would be super easily fixed with a few triggers thrown in to strengthen the last boss/dungeon based on what post game you had accomplished. FF7 even had shades of this by giving Sephiroth more HP the more characters you have at level 99 or if you used KotR earlier on Jenova. This is so easy to do.

I mostly agree, though I feel it would only solve part of the problem. I'm also talking about just having fun side-quests and stuff that don't unlock until the end game. If you don't like FFX and XIII's plot, you are so screwed until you get to the end part of the game and the game finally remembers its suppose to have more content. I'm actually surprised cause playing through Xenoblade Chronicles right now, I've had a whole wealth of side-quests available from the moment I could control the character. The entire opening part of the game from a story perspective could be finished in less than an hour before it finally told you to leave the starting town and explore the world, yet I've clocked in over 11 hours because I've had tons of side-quests to do, and the starting area is pretty huge with tons of secret places and rare monsters to fight. This is incredibly refreshing for a JRPG where most other titles would basically throws you into a roller coaster ride of the plot until the very end.

[VeloZer0]

Once again we have to agree to disagree about the virtues of mid-game sidequests in RPGs.