Lost Season 5 - Spoilers EVERYWHERE! :p

[Craig]

My wife's following the theory that Locke is actually dead and Jacob inhabits or borrows dead bodies to interact with the inhabitants of the island. This is why Locke, Christian, Claire and Mr. Eko's brother's characters all act differently and omnipotent after they are dead. This is also why no one has ever seen Jacob, as he doesn't have a tangible form. Currently Jacob is using Locke's body and he is testing Richard and Ben when he told Ben that they are headed off to kill Jacob.

At first, I thought this was a very likely answer to the whole "Locke is alive" mystery, but ... (SPOILER)They've cast an actor for Jacob, so he does have a corporeal form - in fact, spoilers say that Jacob will be visiting the remaining survivors at pivotal moments in their lives: Sawyer's parents' funeral, Sun and Jin's wedding, Nadia's (Sayid's love) murder, and outside Athony Cooper's suite after Locke is thrown from the window. I'm assuming he appears to Hurley while he is in jail and helps him escape, since Hurley's journey back to the Island has yet to be explained. I haven't read anything about Jacob interacting with Kate, which sort of makes me think she either: a) is the one who dies in the finale, or b) the black horse is Jacob appearing to Kate.

ANYWAY - Same goes for Jack. No spoilers about Jacob appearing to him. Why? Because Jack is Jacob . More than likely, the reason Locke is going to kill Jacob is because of he and Jack's longstanding rivalry, since their whole dynamic has been slowly turning them against each other. I think Locke has some special knowledge of the future / past since dying ... Jacob, if he is Jack, seems like he exists 'outside' of time, so in killing Jacob perhaps Locke is going to be the one who truly changes the past, not Jack. What I mean is that Jacob has obviously been around for a long time, so my theory is that Jacob is Jack trapped in a giant time loop that never ends (ie. at the end of time, Jacob is sent back to the beginning), and by killing Jacob (at any point in time) messes this loop up and just smurfs up in general. Whatever happened, happened ... but the future hasn't /technically/ happened yet, so it's changeable from Locke's point in time (the present).

Maybe Jack causes the Incident by taking the explosive parts of the H-Bomb to the Swan Site hence emulsifying the pocket of energy which originally discharged. Just a thought.

Though all of DHARMA are gone and its pre-Purge so maybe they did change things?

I'd wager that Jack is definitely the cause of the Incident. Likewise, he is also responsible for the loss of Dr. Chang's arm in the fray. Jack thinks the drilling causes the Incident, so he's gonna blow up to stop it. In reality, what I think is going to happen, is the H-Bomb causes the Incident and releases the electromagnetic force (wherein the only way to fix it is encasing it in cement, setting up the button ...). So, in actuality, Jack is the cause of the very thing he seeks to prevent. If that doesn't make him believe in destiny, I don't know what will.

Also why would detonating an a-bomb cause everything to get 'fixed'? Jack's lost it and I'm pretty sure Sayid went along to stop him.

(SPOILER)Naw, previews of the finale show Sayid more or less taking charge of the whole operation. He has personal stake in changing the timeline, too, since it would stop Nadia from dying.

Oh, and I'm really confused about the entire third and second season now. If Richard (and, presumeably Ben) knew Jack and Co. time traveled to the past, why were they so antagonistic towards them? Were they trying to truly hurt (or kill) them in an attempt to change the past? On Ben's part, this seems likely. Or, were they trying to nudge the survivors in the right direction? Making sure they follow their destiny? Evidently, the Others do have some way to predict or see the future, since they built the landing strip for flight 316 to land on and Eloise has remarked that she is unsure what is going to happen "for the first time in a long time." I don't know. The whole behavior of the Others in the previous seasons just confuses me now, since they obviously knew that Oceanic 815's crash was more than just a random occurence.

it could be a case of the writers not having decided time travel at the time.. it could be a case of "course correction" who knows

i think the reason eloise no longer knows what will happen is that the oceanic 5 returned. she knew she had to get daniel to go to the island and she knew that she had to get the oceanic 5 to return so events would play out as she remembered. now theyve returned, shes fulfilled what she had to do (and ultimately what she knew would happen anyway because she experienced in the past therefore knew itd happen) and now doesnt know what will happen next, just like anyone else

as for the runway, maybe the others knew 316 would crash so built a run way.. or maybe they just had other reasons for their run way and it was a spot of luck that 316 was near it

[McLovin']

Oh, and I'm really confused about the entire third and second season now. If Richard (and, presumeably Ben) knew Jack and Co. time traveled to the past, why were they so antagonistic towards them? Were they trying to truly hurt (or kill) them in an attempt to change the past? On Ben's part, this seems likely. Or, were they trying to nudge the survivors in the right direction? Making sure they follow their destiny? Evidently, the Others do have some way to predict or see the future, since they built the landing strip for flight 316 to land on and Eloise has remarked that she is unsure what is going to happen "for the first time in a long time." I don't know. The whole behavior of the Others in the previous seasons just confuses me now, since they obviously knew that Oceanic 815's crash was more than just a random occurence.

Because they didn't know it was the same people at first and then what would they do once they finally made certain it was the same time travelers? "Oh hi you need to stay on this island for some time until this wheel is turned and you go back to 1977 to do the stuff you were meant to do. Have a nice day"

[Moon Rabbits]

Oh, and I'm really confused about the entire third and second season now. If Richard (and, presumeably Ben) knew Jack and Co. time traveled to the past, why were they so antagonistic towards them? Were they trying to truly hurt (or kill) them in an attempt to change the past? On Ben's part, this seems likely. Or, were they trying to nudge the survivors in the right direction? Making sure they follow their destiny? Evidently, the Others do have some way to predict or see the future, since they built the landing strip for flight 316 to land on and Eloise has remarked that she is unsure what is going to happen "for the first time in a long time." I don't know. The whole behavior of the Others in the previous seasons just confuses me now, since they obviously knew that Oceanic 815's crash was more than just a random occurence.

Because they didn't know it was the same people at first and then what would they do once they finally made certain it was the same time travelers? "Oh hi you need to stay on this island for some time until this wheel is turned and you go back to 1977 to do the stuff you were meant to do. Have a nice day"

How would they not be sure? Richard, at least, obviously knew a plane was going to crash in 2004 since he met Jack and Co. in 1977. And they obviously do have some future-telling capacity, what with the runway and all. Unless it was 316 that was supposed to crash originally, and never 815 - maybe the Others were waiting for Ilana and her shadow people all along?

[sdm42393]

Holy crap... how did Juliet survive that fall, and all of that debris? And how did the bomb not explode when Jack dropped it but did when Juliet hit it with a rock a few times?

... Wait, it's LOST. Should I expect it to make coherent sense?

[Moon Rabbits]

I AM SO PISSED OFF THEY KILLED JULIET.

Her death was the best one in the show, though.

[Shadowdust]

Who knows if Juliet is truly dead. Who knows how this will play out. It simply comes down to the question of whether they were fulfilling their roles in the time line or if they were really variables that could bend time to their wills. The ending certainly didn't leave room for an answer. And if what they did worked, Jacob has nothing to worry about.

[Paro]

I believe the events on the island symbolically represent a game of chess between two sides: dark and light, black and white, evil and good. The game is played between two stances, who use their pieces to prove their stance. One side believes in the cooperative nature of humanity, while another believes in the destructive nature of humanity.

After tonight's episode, these two sides have been clearly illustrated...

On the Light side belongs Jacob as the leader, who uses his pieces and arranges them to prove his point: Humanity has a chance to avoid destruction, since everything before destruction "is progress".

Jacob's pieces include: Richard, Ilana, Bram and the other "shadow of the statue crew", and probably the majority of the Losties.

The leader on the Dark side is the unnamed guy at the beginning of the finale episode, in the black shirt, speaking to Jacob, in the white shirt; I would also go as far as to say this man is the Smoke Monster. He is the guardian of the underworld (of sorts), and does not seem capable of directly interfering with human affairs; instead, he manifests himself through various dead characters, and uses influence to change the course of events.

Dead character's he has manifested himself as: Christian, Alex and Locke DEFINITELY. (Perhaps Yemi). He has also, most recently, influenced Ben.

I feel this is definitely evidenced. At the beginning of the episode, the man in black told Jacob he would find a loophole and kill Jacob, who then responded by pretty much saying, "You know where to find me."

... Centuries later, the man in black animates himself as John Locke, which instills a sense of faith in Ben once again. Ben seeks judgment from the Smoke Monster. Once in the Cavern, Ben falls through the floor, and Locke leaves to find help. Coincidentally, the Smoke Monster appears, and judges Ben. Once the Monster disappears, he animates himself as Alex, who tells him to follow everything John Locke (the man in black/the Smoke Monster/Reanimated Alex) says. This obviously sets Ben up once again, when he is faced with the the choice to listen to Locke, or leave. Having been threatened by the Smoke Monster, and being what felt like betrayed by Jacob, Ben stabs him.

Although Ben is being used, I still contend he will turn out to be on the right side at the end of it all.

All these characters are pawns, rooks and bishops in a large game of chess being played on (and off) the island; this "game" is indicative of the ultimate nature of humankind, and the Valenzetti Equation is suggestive that the dark side wins so far. Inevitably, the good side will overcome the odds, and change the numbers before the end of the series.

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

uber pissed..so confused (and not in a good way), absolutely cant stand Kate now (I probably shouldnt have been surprised that she'd change her mind when she saw Jack)!

i dont know people wtf went down tonight...good season but something felt really "off" about the payoff that usually happens in Lost finale's!

[McLovin']

That's because this finale didn't answer much...We are still left at the end with "did this cause the Incident or not." and as well with who Illana's group is. This ending wasn't a gamechanger like Walt being taken, the Swan imploding, flashforwards, or the island moving. It was just a bomb going off and Jacob dieing...

If you noticed, Jacob explicitly touched each character in their flashbacks. Even for a casual viewer it was pretty apparent.

From a logical point of view (lol), Nemesis wanted to kill Jacob but couldn't do it himself so it needed someone who would do it for him. But not just anyone could waltz up to where Jacob resided and so Nemesis (who I would say is the smoke monster) used different characters to manipulate them to find the one person it needed that could do the job...John Locke. It made him look like the leader of the Others in order to finally be able to get to Jacob and use Ben to kill him.

The Jacob thing is cool and I believe he knew he would die. His behavior at the end only proved that he foresaw his death. Perhaps with his death he will pull an Obi-Wan and help our Losties somehow.

And the white flash at the end was a time flash in my opinion. The Losties fulfilled their purpose of creating the Incident and will teleport to 2007 and the story will continue about stopping Nemesis.

[Moon Rabbits]

I believe the events on the island symbolically represent a game of chess between two sides: dark and light, black and white, evil and good. The game is played between two stances, who use their pieces to prove their stance. One side believes in the cooperative nature of humanity, while another believes in the destructive nature of humanity.

[...]

All these characters are pawns, rooks and bishops in a large game of chess being played on (and off) the island; this "game" is indicative of the ultimate nature of humankind, and the Valenzetti Equation is suggestive that the dark side wins so far. Inevitably, the good side will overcome the odds, and change the numbers before the end of the series.

Yeah, Jacob believes in the "goodness" of humanity, the other guy doesn't. He even mentions something about that when they're watching the Black Rock come toward the Island (which, it is apparent, Richard (Ricardos?) was an inhabitant of). I'd also say that the other guy is the smoke monster.

>D This episode made my theorizing about Jacob vs. Esau even more plausible.

That's because this finale didn't answer much...We are still left at the end with "did this cause the Incident or not." and as well with who Illana's group is. This ending wasn't a gamechanger like Walt being taken, the Swan imploding, flashforwards, or the island moving. It was just a bomb going off and Jacob dieing...

If you noticed, Jacob explicitly touched each character in their flashbacks. Even for a casual viewer it was pretty apparent.

[...]

And the white flash at the end was a time flash in my opinion. The Losties fulfilled their purpose of creating the Incident and will teleport to 2007 and the story will continue about stopping Nemesis.

Yeah, except Jacob didn't appear to Juliet. I knew right then she was going to die. If the whiteness WAS a flashforward, I'll be pissed, because that means Juliet is going to be dead even though EVERYONE else in that blast radius would be smurfed but miraculously alive anyway.


OH, and "What lies in the shadow of the statue?" is "He who will save us all."

[Psychotic]

Sawyer kicking Jack in the groin will never, ever, be topped.

Also I like that this show went right into answering the "Who is Jacob?" question by showing him buying a New Kids on the Block lunchbox.

[Kirobaito]

Man, Mullet, your wife was pretty close to being right on Jacob. It just wasn't Jacob she was talking about.

[Psychotic]

Okay, callin' it: Juliet was pregnant, and her involvement with the Incident is why women can't have babies, which, given that's the reason she was on the island in the first place, is incredibly ironic.

[McLovin']

Or the Incident released a small amount of radiation that disallowed pregnancies

[Moon Rabbits]

Or the Incident released a small amount of radiation that disallowed pregnancies

Yeah, I'm thinking that the radiation is responsible for all that sort of stuff. Since, obviously, Dharma could have behbehs (Ethan) and it wasn't miraculous. I also think it is the cause of Danielle's crew getting "sick" - perhaps they got radiation poisoning!!

I'm still really pissed Juliet had to be the one to do it though. Really, I would have been much more satisfied with Kate being the one who dies. I mean, seriously! The producers have been hinting at Sawyer and Kate getting back together next season, and if that happens, I'll be even more upset that Juliet died like this. I mean, there's really nothing they can do with Sawyer's character that won't anger me anymore >( If he goes back to Kate, that totally makes Juliet's death meaningless. If he doesn't go back to Kate, his character is useless in the drama of the show and he might as well be killed off. They should have killed both Juliet AND Sawyer.

Though, I'm still holding on to the hope that the giant "shocker" death of the finale was in fact NOT Juliet's - it could've been Jacob. Or, for all we know, Sayid is dead!