New theories

[Future Esthar]

1-I start to believe there is dimensional travel on FF8.I refused to believe it during many time despite Gilgamesh´s lines.
But I can see a better picture of FF8 now.Time is not set in stone.
I always believed that our characters were supposed to fuse to
be turned into sorceress Adel.It is supposed to happen at the prision but they managed to escape.So how can Adel exist on the future?
That is because Esthar is a future on a different dimension than the other eras.It is a "lost" future.Let´s call that dimension the A dimension (A from Adel).This is also Ulti´s dimension.You can access it on the beach on Edea´s house.Now that I think about it,wasn´t there a small light on the floor?
Or maybe Ulti´s timeline is a third dimension?
Let´s call it U dimension.And the standard dimension will be the S dimension.
2-I wonder whether Rinoa is a clone of Ellone or the other way around?I believe the first thing.
She was meant to save our characters at the prision by sending Zell´s consciousness to the past.That way,dimension S came to exist.
Which means I don´t believe on the cyborg thing anymore.

[ReloadPsi]

What evidence is there to support any of that?

[jammi567]

There is evidence, but it's been twisted so much that it's unrecognisable.

[Future Esthar]

I will answer that when I have enough votes for my poll.

3-I allways thought Ulti has been possessed.

She was freed when our characters defeat her.However she doesn´t have the time to explain herself because they keep hitting her thinking she is still mad.After all they don´t remember her like they remembered Matron.

[Tallulah]

Not to be rude, but... what the hell are you talking about?!

[Future Esthar]

In the end of the game we see Ulti´s last form.Ulti is seen upside down with her body hanging from Griever.Familiar?
Yeah,this is like Schala and the Time Devourer.Since both games are so similar in many points we can safely assume that it was intended for Ulti to be possessed.
However part of her would still be good.

[Serapy]

Squall may be a descendant, husband, mind, true knight of Ultimecia. Why and how? -
Squall has expressed his sadness, anger, loneliness and non-ambitious acts through out the entire story. Ultimecia has the kind of the same behaviours as Squall execpt being more ambitious and anger, she's still lonely.
Ultimecia has created mind (Griever) at the end, Squall doesn't seem so surprised because he knew it was going to happen.
The past/present/future timelines seem to be affected at some point, for example: Squall knew something from the future timeline was going to happen but he was so totally unsure and therefore, lacked his insecurities, that's why he became surprised when that "something" (Griever) being appeared. This theory has a benefit of doubt: why did Ultimecia creat Griever from Squall's mind as the only one thing to appear in those characters' views but not something else? Why only from Squall? Why not someone else too? Anyway, Rinoa looked a lot surprised when she was asking Squall in the middle of the game about his Griever Ring, at that moment, the tune has changed to a beautiful song to represent something, I don't know what exactly. So at the end, Griever showed up, I can't tell if any of this was Squall's intention but why? It could be either Squall, Rinoa or Ultimecia (both Squall and Rinoa).

The Ultimecia Castle is located to Eden house, know why? It's because Squall has grew up living from Eden's house with Matron and spent most of times in that house thinking about things, could be bad things, so that's how the castle appeared next to it, I don't think Matron (or Edea) is involved.

Here's another theory but kind of relevant to the first theory (above). Squall has insecurities and Rinoa is more... of beauty? Therefore, Squall and Rinoa are combined into one form aka Ultimecia as they loved each other and shared love with each other and became corrupted, since sorceresses and humans aren't exactly the same so when they shared love, they exactly became corrupted. Ultimecia's mind is Squall because of her behaviours similar to Squall, and Ultimecia's body is probably Rinoa because of beauty. When they combined, Ultimecia became worser, expressing more anger and full of changes, wanting to rule the whole world, etc.

Some say that Rinoa may be a descendant of Ultimecia, but if Squall is indeed another descendant as well, so then basically both of em are incests which made them combined into Ultimecia because it became corrupted! Ultimecia could be parted of Rinoa and Squall together

Ultimecia's goal was to rule everything, that's exactly how Squall and his team successed in fighting wars and battles, leading to Ultimecia's timeline... but for some reason Ultimecia became corrupted and tried backfired Squall and Rinoa

Oh I wanna share few more theories.

The Zell's Face Scar or rather Tattoo

http://www.ffcompendium.com/art/8-zell-c.jpg

Comparing to Ultimecia's face scar or rather Tattoo

http://www.squarehybrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/ultimecia.jpg

Weird, eh? Both of thier face scars or tattoos look quite similar (not exactly same but very similar), I'm guessing this is because that Zell's face scars or tattoo is located in the present timeline which means the tattoo is new and well, the tattoo or face scar of Ultimecia from the future looks a bit changed and bigger, as timeline is contiuning, these tattoo or face scars grow to change a bit different.

However, Zell doesn't have same tattoo/face scar on his right side of face, I'm guessing this is because Ultimecia is as twice as powerful than Zell, therefore, she have both sides of tattoo or face scars (both right and left sides of face).

As far as I tried to recall that there's indeed none of other characters that have the same/similar tattoo/face scars as Ultimecia or Zell.

If Zell's tattoo is actual tattoo, then maybe he's interested in some part about Ultimecia? He would have thought once that if he wore same tattoo on his left/right sides of face, things would be very suspicious (for example: don't want Squall or someone else to notice the familiarity between Ultimecia and Zell) which means.... there could be many reasons why he took kind of same tattoo as Ultimecia.

If Ultimecia and Zell have those face scars, not actual tattoo then maybe that have to do with thier genes which means that Zell may be a descendant of Ultimecia since nobody else have those smiliar face scars.
Or maybe those face scars give some special power, Zell is good at fighting, Ultimecia is good at fighting either.
Too bad Zell doesn't know about this in the game, but of course the whole game is presented, in future he probably will find out.

If they were just some art creator's imagination that have nothing to do with the story, etc, then no comment about that one...

[Tallulah]

I think it is more likely that Rinoa is a descendant of Ultimecia, rather than Squall, though that would also explain how Ulti came to be in possession of the Griever GF, hidden in Squall's ring. However, I feel that it would be more symbolic if Rinoa was responsible, her becoming a sorceress and all. And Squall gave her the ring.

As for the Zell/Ultimecia similarity thing... I think that's just pure coincidence. But interesting thought...

Uh.. FE... are we playing the same game? :confused: :tongue:

[Bolivar]

When Gilgamesh talked about the dimensional interval, I think that was there because he was sealed in the N-Zone, and presumably zantetsuken was so sharp it cut it open. I didn't see anything else about dimensions in FFVIII.

[Tallulah]

Perhaps Ultimecia's Realm (which our intrepid characters have to go to in Disc Four) is another dimension, or at least an alternate reality. As a former enemy in previous Final Fantasies, perhaps Gilgamesh comes from this dimension because he is evil, or against Squall and co. Transiting from that dimension to the present, or Squall's reality, gives him a new perspective, thus he chooses to side with Squall and pwnz Seifer... Kinda choosing the winning team. :D

Just a thought. :p

[Serapy]

I think it is more likely that Rinoa is a descendant of Ultimecia, rather than Squall, though that would also explain how Ulti came to be in possession of the Griever GF, hidden in Squall's ring. However, I feel that it would be more symbolic if Rinoa was responsible, her becoming a sorceress and all. And Squall gave her the ring.

As for the Zell/Ultimecia similarity thing... I think that's just pure coincidence. But interesting thought...

Uh.. FE... are we playing the same game? :confused: :tongue:

Rinoa is a part of Ultimecia (not saying Ultimecia is 100% Rinoa though) because like what you said, Squall gave her the ring, Rinoa felt the power and eventually Ultimecia spawned Griever at the end. It seems to make more sense than Rinoa being a descendant of Ultimecia because I don't think that all descendants of Ultimecia would gain to have the same power as Rinoa (gaining Griever GF power), unless Rinoa gave her ring to all of the descendants but I don't think that did happen. If Ultimecia created Griever from someone's mind, but why only Griever, why not something else? Griever GF is probably the only one thing Ultimecia has created, but why?

So I tend to believe that Squall could be more of a part of Ultimecia because of Griever, you know when a GF is equipped, nobody else can't use it. Well squall used it for a long time, but maybe Ultimecia wore the ring as a GF and Griever eventually showed up, but where is Squall from the future (the ring is still alive)? He's probably dead, his ring has fallen to Ultimecia but how did that happen? All I guess is... Rinoa is probably the closest person to Squall to have possession of Griever ring, so thus, Rinoa is Ultimecia or a part of it or you're probably right, each descendant following to the future from the past gave Griever ring to next one, and so on, until ultimecia but idk.


If Gilgamesh went through dimensional travel, then Rinoa may have the chance to do that since she has some power of a sorceress, maybe it's not true but who knows. Adel held Rinoa, was that when Gilgamesh showed up? Would make sense if Rinoa was involved with Gilgamesh.

[Future Esthar]

Perhaps Ultimecia's Realm (which our intrepid characters have to go to in Disc Four) is another dimension, or at least an alternate reality.
Exactly.It is the U dimension.
Edea is called Ultimecia on this dimension.
She married Seifer and gave birth to Rinoa.
Rinoa married Squall and gave birth to Zell.
Zell married Quistis and gave birth to Selphie which married Irvine.
They were a Dinasty of Centra Kings which came from another planet.
Seifer is the sun of Raijin and Fujin.


Uh.. FE... are we playing the same game?

Schala and the Time Devourer are from a game named Chrono Cross.I was just making a comparison.

[Serapy]

Rinoa married Squall and gave birth to Zell.

No wonder Zell's face scar or tattoo looks almost the same as Ultimecia, this explains that all of them are in relation to Ultimecia from the future.

[Discord]

FE! You're back! http://www.smileyarena.com/emoticons/Packs/Tinted/faint.gif Life is good again!:tongue:

Any chance that you're confusing the Chrono series with the FF though?

[ragnosica]

She married Seifer and gave birth to Rinoa.
Rinoa married Squall and gave birth to Zell.
Zell married Quistis and gave birth to Selphie which married Irvine.
They were a Dinasty of Centra Kings which came from another planet.
Seifer is the sun of Raijin and Fujin.


ok now that's just plain silly:D

[Serapy]

Everybody in that timeline are descendants of ultimecia

[Bolivar]

If Gilgamesh went through dimensional travel, then Rinoa may have the chance to do that since she has some power of a sorceress, maybe it's not true but who knows. Adel held Rinoa, was that when Gilgamesh showed up? Would make sense if Rinoa was involved with Gilgamesh.

Gilgamesh shows up in one of the final battles with Seifer on Disc 3. If you have Odin, he shows up in the beginning of the battle as if he's about to provide an instant kill, but Seifer slays the legendary summon. Zantetsuken flies out of his hand and slices through the sky, and I believe it cut an opening in the dimensional interval, creating an opening in the N-Zone, where Gilgamesh was banished in FFV, allowing him to come into Squall's world.

I don't think there are different dimensions, the closest thing would be alternate futures, as in the past's future (before the final battle) Ultimecia is a threat, whereas after that point, the timeloop is broken and that is no longer happening. Although she does go and enter Edea after that is done, the whole series of events is locked into the past.
All that being said, how could Rinoa be Ultimecia's descendent if Ultimecia lives in a time far in the future from Rinoa's?

[Serapy]

All that being said, how could Rinoa be Ultimecia's descendent if Ultimecia lives in a time far in the future from Rinoa's?

Rinoa gave birth to someone, and that someone gave birth to someone else, so on and on using some special bonds, until Ultimecia (giving birth from past ------> future (Ultimecia) :p. I mean ultimecia can't just exist unless someone gave birth to her, but I don't know who, that's why I mentioned Rinoa is a descendent of Ultimecia.

Rinoa's wings are white, Ultimecia's wings are black, what was the point of that? The white ones were to represent love, etc, and the black ones were to represent evil, etc, but I don't see the point in that, so I thought I'd safety assume that they are involved in something, thus, either Rinoa is a part of Ultimecia or Rinoa = Ultimecia.

As for Zell, I don't know... there should be a big plot between Zell and Ultimecia, I can't just find it, apart from thier similarity.

[Future Esthar]

Everybody in that timeline are descendants of ultimecia

Exactly, Ragnosica.

This is as silly as Viper and Company dying on the Dead Sea.
But we know why this isn´t silly, right?


Any chance that you're confusing the Chrono series with the FF though?


Considering the obvious similarities like the weapon upgrading system,the 3D realistic rendering on the field,the time travel team,etc,we can safely assume both games are related.


I don't think there are different dimensions, the closest thing would be alternate futures, as in the past's future (before the final battle) Ultimecia is a threat, whereas after that point, the timeloop is broken and that is no longer happening. Although she does go and enter Edea after that is done, the whole series of events is locked into the past.


Square don´t wanna spoil the secret storyline of FF8.That´s why the concept is not heard in the game.But they are trying to give us more clues on Chrono Cross.


All that being said, how could Rinoa be Ultimecia's descendent if Ultimecia lives in a time far in the future from Rinoa's?

There is no evidence Ulti lives on the future even though some people tells us that.I can safely assume she lives on the furthest past were the dimensions split.

[licence]

Exactly.It is the U dimension.
Edea is called Ultimecia on this dimension.
She married Seifer and gave birth to Rinoa.
Rinoa married Squall and gave birth to Zell.
Zell married Quistis and gave birth to Selphie which married Irvine.
They were a Dinasty of Centra Kings which came from another planet.
Seifer is the sun of Raijin and Fujin.

...No...just no...I mean, send some of what you're smoking over here.

[Future Esthar]

The game happens on the K dimension.It was just at the end that they traveled to the U dimension.

[licence]

What is your evidence for that?

[Future Esthar]

There is a little light on the beach of Edea´s house when our characters go to Ulti´s reign.
Did you ever note how the house is on the southwestern tip of the Centra Continent?Familiar?

[Ramza Beoulve]

Future Esthar, sorry, but you have been playing a little TOO much Chrono Cross, and I actually love that game.

The beach light? you took it from before the fight with the time devourer. The clon thing? Schala and Kid. Dimensions? Home dimension and Another dimension from Serge perspective. The control of Ultimecia by Griever? the fusion of the time devourer with Schala. This game was developed by a completely different team because it was being developed nearly AT THE SAME TIME than FFVIII, and it was made to answer the question of WHERE SCHALA WENT after the awakening of Lavos in 12,000 bc in Chrono Trigger, having noting to do with the FFVIII universe. It wasn't made to answer questions from FFVIII because I think the developers didn't have the time to analyze them first, you know, the developing of videogames takes a lot of time, and you have to focus in that. MAYBE they could have similar things, like some time and space theories, the developing of weapons, the 3D rendering, but it is because the publisher company was Square, for the 3D rendering and the weapons, and because the Chrono series are made around "Time and space theories".

Oh, and another thing... VIDEOGAMES ANYONE?

[ReloadPsi]

Just answer me one question: How many forums, online communities and message boards were you laughed out of before coming here?

[Dr. Acula]

Everyone's a descendant of Ultimecia? Hmm, makes TOTAL sense, considering Ultimecia lives in the FUTURE and the FF8 team live in the PRESENT. Maybe you got "descendants" and "ancestors" mixed up?
And also, Rinoa is in no way a clone to Ellone. She didn't get the people out of prison by sending Zell to the past (Ellone did that... and Zell pretty much mentioned that even though he was Ward in the dream he still didn't know his way around, so it didn't help them at all). Rinoa got them out of prison by going in and showing our FF8 team the way out.
And if all the FF8 team fused to become Adel, they'd be fighting themselves, no? Wouldn't that mean they either would drop dead after defeating her, or feel pain if they attacked her or something?

Hey, here's an idea... all the characters in FF8 could be unrelated unless stated so in the game or stated by Square.
Sorry if that post sounded nasty but I don't see any evidence to back up your claims, FE or Serapy.

[Serapy]

Just answer me one question: How many forums, online communities and message boards were you laughed out of before coming here?

Uhh, I don't think I'm laughing at him nor not everybody has laughed at him. He has made very very interesting theories, he's the only one who made me play FF8 again, I love that game already.

[ragnosica]

the only thing that could convince me to play FF8 again would be a time machine:p

[licence]

I think you're wrong Serapy and most people who have seen these theories are currently lying on the ground in fits of laughter. Come on, Propagtors ruling Centra....

[Rocket Edge]

First of all, I want to welcome you back FE, the VIII forum has been boring without you.

2-I wonder whether Rinoa is a clone of Ellone or the other way around?I believe the first thing.
She was meant to save our characters at the prision by sending Zell´s consciousness to the past.That way,dimension S came to exist.
This bit is interesting. I'm not too sure on the whole story, but from what I can interpret, this could make sense.

Seifer is the sun of Raijin and Fujin.
I don't know the point being made from that segment, but based on religious facts, that is true.

I'm not too sure on this whole theory yet, i'll have to read back over it al before I can pass judgement.

[MJN SEIFER]

Just answer me one question: How many forums, online communities and message boards were you laughed out of before coming here?

Psi, please stop talking to yourself...

[atlanteay]

FE is back!! EoFF is 'normal' again :p

these theories. I must praise you on your creativity and ability to find enough clues and come up with them. You just didn't put in enough evidence to prove your theories. I'd like to see the reasoning behind them.

[ReloadPsi]

Just answer me one question: How many forums, online communities and message boards were you laughed out of before coming here?

Psi, please stop talking to yourself...

Welcome to StockComebacks.com. Please enjoy your stay.

[Future Esthar]

This game was developed by a completely different team because it was being developed nearly AT THE SAME TIME than FFVIII

Maybe they talked to each other.If it was at nearly the same time then the evidence is higher don´t you think?I heard the team of CC was involved on FF8´s FMV.

And,PSI,I was banished from FFgurus.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Actually, two teams working at the same time have less time to talk about their games, maybe one or two points about graphics, but about GRAPHICS, or technical data, not the history, not the theories in the game, not the actions in them. Theories and technical development are completely different things.

Take out the development things like 3D graphics, music, anything that has noting to do with the history in the videogame, because those things are based around the technology of the time in videogames.

Anyways, the Chrono team have been working in the space-time theories since Chrono Trigger, four years before FFVIII.

Hironobu Sakaguchi, producer of a lot of square games, father of the Final Fantasy series, and one of the co-founders of Square Co., participated in FFVIII AND in Chrono Trigger, but NOT in Chrono Cross. Sakaguchi, also, loves to work with different theories and situations in his games, as everyone can see, but Chrono Cross was developed to continue on the Chrono series, not the Final Fantasy ones. Maybe FFVIII has something to do with the theories managed in Chrono Trigger, but they are Theories that everyone can use for anything, even fan fiction.

[Hambone]

1-I start to believe there is dimensional travel on FF8.I refused to believe it during many time despite Gilgamesh´s lines.
But I can see a better picture of FF8 now.Time is not set in stone.
I always believed that our characters were supposed to fuse to
be turned into sorceress Adel.It is supposed to happen at the prision but they managed to escape.So how can Adel exist on the future?
That is because Esthar is a future on a different dimension than the other eras.It is a "lost" future.Let´s call that dimension the A dimension (A from Adel).This is also Ulti´s dimension.You can access it on the beach on Edea´s house.Now that I think about it,wasn´t there a small light on the floor?
Or maybe Ulti´s timeline is a third dimension?
Let´s call it U dimension.And the standard dimension will be the S dimension.
2-I wonder whether Rinoa is a clone of Ellone or the other way around?I believe the first thing.
She was meant to save our characters at the prision by sending Zell´s consciousness to the past.That way,dimension S came to exist.
Which means I don´t believe on the cyborg thing anymore.
How many hours on this game do you have? How many files do you have?

[ragnosica]

Actually, two teams working at the same time have less time to talk about their games, maybe one or two points about graphics, but about GRAPHICS, or technical data, not the history, not the theories in the game, not the actions in them. Theories and technical development are completely different things.

Take out the development things like 3D graphics, music, anything that has noting to do with the history in the videogame, because those things are based around the technology of the time in videogames.

Anyways, the Chrono team have been working in the space-time theories since Chrono Trigger, four years before FFVIII.

Hironobu Sakaguchi, producer of a lot of square games, father of the Final Fantasy series, and one of the co-founders of Square Co., participated in FFVIII AND in Chrono Trigger, but NOT in Chrono Cross. Sakaguchi, also, loves to work with different theories and situations in his games, as everyone can see, but Chrono Cross was developed to continue on the Chrono series, not the Final Fantasy ones. Maybe FFVIII has something to do with the theories managed in Chrono Trigger, but they are Theories that everyone can use for anything, even fan fiction.

*tip hat*

[Ramza Beoulve]

Oh yeah, and something I nearly forgot. Sakaguchi was working in Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within at the time. That caused that Yoshinori Kitase had to be asigned as the leader of the FFVIII team, and Sakaguchi worked only sometimes with the team, making the possibilities of employing Sakaguchi's time theories to go really down, and later Shinji Hashimoto was assigned in Sakaguchi's Executive Producer post half the way in the creation of FFVIII, changing some of the script and the history of it in the process.

Also, Yusuke Naora, the art director of FF VIII, used motion caption in the FMV's, and didn't work with Yasuyuki Honne, the art director of Chrono Cross. Oh, yeah, and this has noting to do with the history and the situations in the games.

[Future Esthar]

I must open a thread on similarities to convince you

[Mirage]

Just do it here. I'm dying from anticipation.

[Future Esthar]

too late now.tired.

[Mirage]

Aw, damn. Please show me later. I've been reading thought most your threads lately. Though some parts seem bizarre, it's all starting to make sense now. You just gotta have a different approach to it, and be more open minded.

[Fatal Impurity]

I think it is more likely that Rinoa is a descendant of Ultimecia, rather than Squall, though that would also explain how Ulti came to be in possession of the Griever GF, hidden in Squall's ring. However, I feel that it would be more symbolic if Rinoa was responsible, her becoming a sorceress and all. And Squall gave her the ring.

As for the Zell/Ultimecia similarity thing... I think that's just pure coincidence. But interesting thought...

Uh.. FE... are we playing the same game? :confused: :tongue:

Rinoa is a part of Ultimecia (not saying Ultimecia is 100% Rinoa though) because like what you said, Squall gave her the ring, Rinoa felt the power and eventually Ultimecia spawned Griever at the end. It seems to make more sense than Rinoa being a descendant of Ultimecia because I don't think that all descendants of Ultimecia would gain to have the same power as Rinoa (gaining Griever GF power), unless Rinoa gave her ring to all of the descendants but I don't think that did happen. If Ultimecia created Griever from someone's mind, but why only Griever, why not something else? Griever GF is probably the only one thing Ultimecia has created, but why?

So I tend to believe that Squall could be more of a part of Ultimecia because of Griever, you know when a GF is equipped, nobody else can't use it. Well squall used it for a long time, but maybe Ultimecia wore the ring as a GF and Griever eventually showed up, but where is Squall from the future (the ring is still alive)? He's probably dead, his ring has fallen to Ultimecia but how did that happen? All I guess is... Rinoa is probably the closest person to Squall to have possession of Griever ring, so thus, Rinoa is Ultimecia or a part of it or you're probably right, each descendant following to the future from the past gave Griever ring to next one, and so on, until ultimecia but idk.


If Gilgamesh went through dimensional travel, then Rinoa may have the chance to do that since she has some power of a sorceress, maybe it's not true but who knows. Adel held Rinoa, was that when Gilgamesh showed up? Would make sense if Rinoa was involved with Gilgamesh.


The reason Griever is summoned by Ultimecia at the end of FF8 is because as its stated all through FF8 (by multiple character's) "Griever, the most powerful/ultimate GF".

Plus i mean how is it possible to scan the mind of somebody or something your a part of? You would instinctively know!

What i want to know is why you never get to summon or see Griever summoned in FF8 until the end? Is it because Squall was unable to summon the GF or was it because he WOULDN'T? Could it of been fear that unleashing Griever could cause unrivaled destruction? Is Griever just a personification of Squall's wild/rebellious/dark side? Or is Griever an entity in and of itself like other GF's? Either way Squall and Griever are unmistakably linked by some force maybe Squall himself is Griever and maybe Griever is his true most powerful form, or maybe it's just the form that Squall's unleashed power takes...

Another thing is how can someone (I.E. Ultimecia in the final fight) junction themselves to a GF? I mean the only things can be junctioned are GF's right? Unless of course Ulti is a GF or maybe Griever isnt a GF but rather an actual independant being...? Or alternatively they are both GF's and it is possible to junction GF's together but with the price of them becoming permanently fused together, which is probably why no one does it in the game ...afterall most people never get more than one GF and thsoe that do probably dont want to screw thier GF's big style.

Anyway all of this speculation/and or theorising...none of it is probably even remotely true but it does get you thinking about the true purpose of Griever within FF8 afterall what reason is there for him to be in the story when for most of the story he either not mentioned or just plain not really important (other than being the most powerful GF).

[Serapy]

Hmm that's interesting :)

So what do you guys think about the similarity of Zell and Ulti's face scars or tattoos >_> What do they exactly show? It's really weird because none of other characters have those tattoo/face scars, apart from Zell and Utli..

[Ramza Beoulve]

I must open a thread on similarities to convince you
Sure, pick a try.

Anyways, the only similarities I see between them is the technical development, and you can find those similarities in a lot of games at the time. In the situations, they aren't similar, but as you aren't going to convince me, I'm not going to convice you either.

I have stated what I think and that's the only thing I'll do. I will not plead anyone to believe me. This things are like religious and cientific facts. Anyways, they complete themselves, showed here in that Chrono Cross and Final Fantasy VIII are videogames made to be enjoyed by us.

I don't need to convince anyone, because they are free to believe whatever they want, and this include you. But to my eyes, those theories are out of place, but that doesn't matter.

Believe whatever you want, I have said more than enough to prove my facts, and if you want to prove them, just check pages specialized in this games, like chronocompendium.com, where a lot of persons worked in the theories around the Chrono series. And in that page I didn't see anything to do plot-wise with Final Fantasy.

Chrono Cross wasn't made to answer FFVIII plotholes, was made to ANSWER Chrono Trigger plotholes.

[Fatal Impurity]

I must open a thread on similarities to convince you
Sure, pick a try.

Anyways, the only similarities I see between them is the technical development, and you can find those similarities in a lot of games at the time. In the situations, they aren't similar, but as you aren't going to convince me, I'm not going to convice you either.

I have stated what I think and that's the only thing I'll do. I will not plead anyone to believe me. This things are like religious and cientific facts. Anyways, they complete themselves, showed here in that Chrono Cross and Final Fantasy VIII are videogames made to be enjoyed by us.

I don't need to convince anyone, because they are free to believe whatever they want, and this include you. But to my eyes, those theories are out of place, but that doesn't matter.

Believe whatever you want, I have said more than enough to prove my facts, and if you want to prove them, just check pages specialized in this games, like chronocompendium.com, where a lot of persons worked in the theories around the Chrono series. And in that page I didn't see anything to do plot-wise with Final Fantasy.

Chrono Cross wasn't made to answer FFVIII plotholes, was made to ANSWER Chrono Trigger plotholes.

Heheh soooooooooo true...i think most if not all of these theories are completely nutty and the only thing i'm interested in is discovering Griever's true place/purpose/origin/character within the story of FF8 none of the other stuff even seems possible!

[Future Esthar]

go there when I open.

[Ramza Beoulve]

go there when I open.I'll be waiting

[Future Esthar]

I think my vacances start tomorrow so,Keep watching.

[Ramza Beoulve]

I think my vacances start tomorrow so,Keep watching.I'll be watching

[eestlinc]

Just answer me one question: How many forums, online communities and message boards were you laughed out of before coming here?

Psi, please stop talking to yourself...

Welcome to StockComebacks.com. Please enjoy your stay.

Let's stay on topic and stop insulting people.

[Future Esthar]

my vacances started today after all

[Ramza Beoulve]

my vacances started today after all
I'm still waiting...

[Rocket Edge]

my vacances started today after all
I'm still waiting...

[Goldenboko]

Just answer me one question: How many forums, online communities and message boards were you laughed out of before coming here?

Psi, please stop talking to yourself...

I kind of agree with Psi... so many of these theories are absolutely ridiculous. Your taking a game far too literately, bending things to fit, these theories are more fanfiction then anything.

[Serapy]

I must open a thread on similarities to convince you
Sure, pick a try.

Anyways, the only similarities I see between them is the technical development, and you can find those similarities in a lot of games at the time. In the situations, they aren't similar, but as you aren't going to convince me, I'm not going to convice you either.

I have stated what I think and that's the only thing I'll do. I will not plead anyone to believe me. This things are like religious and cientific facts. Anyways, they complete themselves, showed here in that Chrono Cross and Final Fantasy VIII are videogames made to be enjoyed by us.

I don't need to convince anyone, because they are free to believe whatever they want, and this include you. But to my eyes, those theories are out of place, but that doesn't matter.

Believe whatever you want, I have said more than enough to prove my facts, and if you want to prove them, just check pages specialized in this games, like chronocompendium.com, where a lot of persons worked in the theories around the Chrono series. And in that page I didn't see anything to do plot-wise with Final Fantasy.

Chrono Cross wasn't made to answer FFVIII plotholes, was made to ANSWER Chrono Trigger plotholes.

Heheh soooooooooo true...i think most if not all of these theories are completely nutty and the only thing i'm interested in is discovering Griever's true place/purpose/origin/character within the story of FF8 none of the other stuff even seems possible!

Then why don't you make your own theories to prove that they are not as nutty as other theories? This statement is very nonsense.

When you're making your own theory, it will be just the same as other theories because all the theories are based on the same purpose; whenever you sense true facts from the game and then make your own explanations about such facts to prove that something is involved and what not because you would think that whatever you are explaining makes sense. However, not everybody will buy your theory that's why people like you think that some theories are nutty (in your own words), but in fact that all the theories remains the same purpose so it's pretty stupid to call theories nutty anyway.

[Ryushikaze]

Then why don't you make your own theories to prove that they are not as nutty as other theories? This statement is very nonsense.

He doesn't have to make his own theory to see that there is jack all that is evidenced or parsimonious in another man's theory.


When you're making your own theory, it will be just the same as other theories because all the theories are based on the same purpose; whenever you sense true facts from the game and then make your own explanations about such facts to prove that something is involved and what not because you would think that whatever you are explaining makes sense. However, not everybody will buy your theory that's why people like you think that some theories are nutty (in your own words), but in fact that all the theories remains the same purpose so it's pretty stupid to call theories nutty anyway.

No. Not at all. Because some theories are parsimonious. Some theories follow the evidence to the conclusion, instead of following the conclusion to the evidence.
Then there are nutty theories. Theories with no empirical backing, which can and have been knocked down with a feather touch, and yet which the creator still insists have some sort of validity.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Guys, just let this thread die and be forgotten.

[ragnosica]

making fanfiction or dedicating your time to finding out the deepest secrets of a VIDEO GAME plot means wasting your time. Games are made to have fun with, not to be contemplated about. Ppl who do these things either have nothing better to do yet or they basically have no life. (no offense FE)

[Mirage]

protip: Saying "no offence" doesn't magically counter offensive statements.

[ragnosica]

i know that, i'm just trying to be nice while being realistic at the same time...a very hard thing to do these days

[Tallulah]

Guys, just let this thread die and be forgotten.

Hear, hear. :)


making fanfiction or dedicating your time to finding out the deepest secrets of a VIDEO GAME plot means wasting your time. Games are made to have fun with, not to be contemplated about. Ppl who do these things either have nothing better to do yet or they basically have no life. (no offense FE)

Well maybe making fanfiction (which is basically what these theories are to me... an FFVIII/CC crossover imo) is fun, and that's what FE, God bless him, is trying to do.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Guys, just let this thread die and be forgotten.

Hear, hear. :)
You haven't read his others threads, do you? :)

For FE, that theories aren't fanfiction.

[ragnosica]

Actually yeah, FE sees things from his own point of view. For him all these theories are as real as the sun above him. So we should probably let him live in his own little world.:greenie:

[Future Esthar]

Guys,it didn´t matter what you think.I just want you to not refrain from discussing:)

[MJN SEIFER]

Actually yeah, FE sees things from his own point of view. For him all these theories are as real as the sun above him. So we should probably let him live in his own little world.:greenie:

There are people who believe his theorys, me being one.

[Ramza Beoulve]

Actually yeah, FE sees things from his own point of view. For him all these theories are as real as the sun above him. So we should probably let him live in his own little world.:greenie:

There are people who believe his theorys, me being one.And there are people who doesn't believe in his theories, me being one. Also, he says "don't refrain from discussing", but as everyone has seen until now, it looks like anyone will hear the opposite.

[Discord]

A theory! This is all a huge prank, or an experiment, performed in order to check if the readers will actually start believing in not-to-realistic-theories once they were been told a certain number of times. *smells the scent of a conspiracy*

[Ramza Beoulve]

A theory! This is all a huge prank, or an experiment, performed in order to check if the readers will actually start believing in not-to-realistic-theories once they were been told a certain number of times. *smells the scent of a conspiracy*
October 30, 1938 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_%28radio%29)? :rolleyes2

But I don't really care enough for this. Believe whatever you want, all of you. I get out of here.

[Hyperion4444]

How about Sephiroth Final Fantasy VII and Lloyd Legend of Dragoon resemblance?
1-He's pretty strong in the begining and you can't compete with him then.
2-You cross the world in shearch to destroy him to stop his evil plans.
3-You never seem to arrive on time before he escapes.
4-The Final Boss on disk 3.
5-Platinum Blond Hair.
6-Used to be a hero for his cause.
7-Dress in Black.
8-More than human.
9-Has a deadly sword.
10-Kills off one important character in the game...
11-...mostly at the end of disk one.
12-Is being controlled by someone else.
13-Uses a Masamune as standart sword.
14-Wants to destroy the world...
15-... With one big rock! (Planet)

yeah.. well theses are accutally facts, not opinions.

[Ryushikaze]

Actually yeah, FE sees things from his own point of view. For him all these theories are as real as the sun above him. So we should probably let him live in his own little world.:greenie:

There are people who believe his theorys, me being one.

Which means you have no sense of skepticism or gradation of outrageousness of claims. FE's theories are in extreme violation of parsimony at every turn.


A theory! This is all a huge prank, or an experiment, performed in order to check if the readers will actually start believing in not-to-realistic-theories once they were been told a certain number of times. *smells the scent of a conspiracy*

If only it were so. FE seems to honestly believe what he spouts.


How about Sephiroth Final Fantasy VII and Lloyd Legend of Dragoon resemblance?
1-He's pretty strong in the begining and you can't compete with him then.
2-You cross the world in shearch to destroy him to stop his evil plans.
3-You never seem to arrive on time before he escapes.

Difference- You aren't following Sephiroth, but his Jenova puppet, and fight the cast of body parts thereof.


4-The Final Boss on disk 3.
5-Platinum Blond Hair.
6-Used to be a hero for his cause.
7-Dress in Black.
8-More than human.
9-Has a deadly sword.
10-Kills off one important character in the game...
11-...mostly at the end of disk one.
12-Is being controlled by someone else.

Correction- Sephiroth was in charge. There is no arguing with this, as it was handed down by writer fiat.

[Future Esthar]

There is a Baptist Church on USA called Landover.They have a website.
It´s a very strict and weird church I must say.

[daggertrepe]

Squall may be a descendant, husband, mind, true knight of Ultimecia. Why and how? -
Squall has expressed his sadness, anger, loneliness and non-ambitious acts through out the entire story. Ultimecia has the kind of the same behaviours as Squall execpt being more ambitious and anger, she's still lonely.
Ultimecia has created mind (Griever) at the end, Squall doesn't seem so surprised because he knew it was going to happen.
The past/present/future timelines seem to be affected at some point, for example: Squall knew something from the future timeline was going to happen but he was so totally unsure and therefore, lacked his insecurities, that's why he became surprised when that "something" (Griever) being appeared. This theory has a benefit of doubt: why did Ultimecia creat Griever from Squall's mind as the only one thing to appear in those characters' views but not something else? Why only from Squall? Why not someone else too? Anyway, Rinoa looked a lot surprised when she was asking Squall in the middle of the game about his Griever Ring, at that moment, the tune has changed to a beautiful song to represent something, I don't know what exactly. So at the end, Griever showed up, I can't tell if any of this was Squall's intention but why? It could be either Squall, Rinoa or Ultimecia (both Squall and Rinoa).

The Ultimecia Castle is located to Eden house, know why? It's because Squall has grew up living from Eden's house with Matron and spent most of times in that house thinking about things, could be bad things, so that's how the castle appeared next to it, I don't think Matron (or Edea) is involved.

Here's another theory but kind of relevant to the first theory (above). Squall has insecurities and Rinoa is more... of beauty? Therefore, Squall and Rinoa are combined into one form aka Ultimecia as they loved each other and shared love with each other and became corrupted, since sorceresses and humans aren't exactly the same so when they shared love, they exactly became corrupted. Ultimecia's mind is Squall because of her behaviours similar to Squall, and Ultimecia's body is probably Rinoa because of beauty. When they combined, Ultimecia became worser, expressing more anger and full of changes, wanting to rule the whole world, etc.

Some say that Rinoa may be a descendant of Ultimecia, but if Squall is indeed another descendant as well, so then basically both of em are incests which made them combined into Ultimecia because it became corrupted! Ultimecia could be parted of Rinoa and Squall together

Ultimecia's goal was to rule everything, that's exactly how Squall and his team successed in fighting wars and battles, leading to Ultimecia's timeline... but for some reason Ultimecia became corrupted and tried backfired Squall and Rinoa

Oh I wanna share few more theories.

The Zell's Face Scar or rather Tattoo

http://www.ffcompendium.com/art/8-zell-c.jpg

Comparing to Ultimecia's face scar or rather Tattoo

http://www.squarehybrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/ultimecia.jpg

Weird, eh? Both of thier face scars or tattoos look quite similar (not exactly same but very similar), I'm guessing this is because that Zell's face scars or tattoo is located in the present timeline which means the tattoo is new and well, the tattoo or face scar of Ultimecia from the future looks a bit changed and bigger, as timeline is contiuning, these tattoo or face scars grow to change a bit different.

However, Zell doesn't have same tattoo/face scar on his right side of face, I'm guessing this is because Ultimecia is as twice as powerful than Zell, therefore, she have both sides of tattoo or face scars (both right and left sides of face).

As far as I tried to recall that there's indeed none of other characters that have the same/similar tattoo/face scars as Ultimecia or Zell.

If Zell's tattoo is actual tattoo, then maybe he's interested in some part about Ultimecia? He would have thought once that if he wore same tattoo on his left/right sides of face, things would be very suspicious (for example: don't want Squall or someone else to notice the familiarity between Ultimecia and Zell) which means.... there could be many reasons why he took kind of same tattoo as Ultimecia.

If Ultimecia and Zell have those face scars, not actual tattoo then maybe that have to do with thier genes which means that Zell may be a descendant of Ultimecia since nobody else have those smiliar face scars.
Or maybe those face scars give some special power, Zell is good at fighting, Ultimecia is good at fighting either.
Too bad Zell doesn't know about this in the game, but of course the whole game is presented, in future he probably will find out.

If they were just some art creator's imagination that have nothing to do with the story, etc, then no comment about that one...

*GASPS*

...so zell is Ultimecia???

[atlanteay]

oh, i've seen that theory somewhere! it's even more far-fetched than R=U IMO.

so it's true that when you name the ring 'Bob' then Ultimecia summons 'Bob' in the end of the game for you to fight instead of griever?

[daggertrepe]

oh, i've seen that theory somewhere! it's even more far-fetched than R=U IMO.

so it's true that when you name the ring 'Bob' then Ultimecia summons 'Bob' in the end of the game for you to fight instead of griever?

I lol'd.

[atlanteay]

omg i gotta try that!



Ultimecia
"The most powerful GF..."

"...You shall..."

"...SUFFER...!"

"HAHAHA..."

"The GF's true power..."

"Allow me..."

"To show you...!"

"Bob! Make them bleed!"


Ultimecia

"I shall junction myself..."

"...Unto Bob!"

[Hyperion4444]

How about Sephiroth Final Fantasy VII and Lloyd Legend of Dragoon resemblance?
1-He's pretty strong in the begining and you can't compete with him then.
2-You cross the world in shearch to destroy him to stop his evil plans.
3-You never seem to arrive on time before he escapes.

Difference- You aren't following Sephiroth, but his Jenova puppet, and fight the cast of body parts thereof.


4-The Final Boss on disk 3.
5-Platinum Blond Hair.
6-Used to be a hero for his cause.
7-Dress in Black.
8-More than human.
9-Has a deadly sword.
10-Kills off one important character in the game...
11-...mostly at the end of disk one.
12-Is being controlled by someone else.

Correction- Sephiroth was in charge. There is no arguing with this, as it was handed down by writer fiat.

13-You actually found out it was something else all along that is the evil.
(This basically prooves everything)
And euh.. how the hell can you actually say they are not different?

5-Platinum Blond Hair.
6-Used to be a hero for his cause.
7-Dress in Black.
8-More than human.
9-Has a deadly sword.(Masamune)

Theses and all of them are facts that you simply can,t deny since you can see thoses one.

While other facts like:

12-Is being controlled by someone else.

... Didn't you just said that Jenova controlled Sephiroth?
Next time, read the whole god damn post, and stop humiliating yourself:



Difference- You aren't following Sephiroth, but his Jenova puppet, and fight the cast of body parts thereof.

Correction- Sephiroth was in charge. There is no arguing with this, as it was handed down by writer fiat.
Jenova puppet or Sephiroth in charge?:confused:

I though the real one died ages ago.



omg i gotta try that!



Ultimecia
"The most powerful GF..."

"...You shall..."

"...SUFFER...!"

"HAHAHA..."

"The GF's true power..."

"Allow me..."

"To show you...!"

"Bob! Make them bleed!"


Ultimecia

"I shall junction myself..."

"...Unto Bob!"

You should try something else I'm not going to post here...

[Ryushikaze]

13-You actually found out it was something else all along that is the evil.
(This basically prooves everything)

No. It doesn't. Sephiroth was in charge the entire time.


And euh.. how the hell can you actually say they are not different?

5-Platinum Blond Hair.
6-Used to be a hero for his cause.
7-Dress in Black.
8-More than human.
9-Has a deadly sword.(Masamune)

Theses and all of them are facts that you simply can,t deny since you can see thoses one.

But they're hardly important. The Platinum Bishy in Black with a sword is a cliche for a reason. Without your big points, they're just interesting similarities. And your big points are not true.


While other facts like:

12-Is being controlled by someone else.

... Didn't you just said that Jenova controlled Sephiroth?

No. I said (the proper grammar for what you said is 'just say' BTW) that you were following Sephiroth's Jenova Puppet. Sephiroth controls, Jenova is the puppet.


Next time, read the whole god damn post, and stop humiliating yourself:

Right back atcha, he who thought I said Jenova was in charge.


Jenova puppet or Sephiroth in charge?:confused:

I though the real one died ages ago.

Sephiroth is in charge, and Jenova is his puppet. Sephiroth did not die 5 years ago, everyone simply thought he did. He has been sitting pretty in the crater for five years absorbing power and knowledge.

[atlanteay]

omg i gotta try that!



Ultimecia
"The most powerful GF..."

"...You shall..."

"...SUFFER...!"

"HAHAHA..."

"The GF's true power..."

"Allow me..."

"To show you...!"

"Bob! Make them bleed!"


Ultimecia

"I shall junction myself..."

"...Unto Bob!"

You should try something else I'm not going to post here...
then don't.

[Serapy]

-LOOP-
Everybody are descendants of *** during the timeline
+
*** is folding the paper of universe
=
Time Compression
-/LOOP-

*** = Ulti at the moment.

Whenever Ulti dies, the loop will always be resetted when someone else has the same power as Ulti, *Rinoa* for example.

:love: