The Aeris's Ghost Appearance [Spoilers]

[Serapy]

in the Church... is no longer a glitch, it was definitely intended by the programmer.

How?

The Zack's Ghost in AC:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/Squall_of_Seed/FamilyPhotographs.jpg

For those who can't see Zack in the photo.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1954/deepzackpv5.gif

There, it should prove that it definitely is Zack.

After I have been spending some time thinking about why Zack appeared in the photo. There has to be a logical reason for him to appear in the photo because there are so few unanswered questions left. Actually it could be because of Cloud's mentally stability - he's a clone, cloned by Zack. And Zack was Aeris's girlfriend. Cloud's flashbacks contained Aeris and Zack most of the time. Those two were very special moments for Cloud, I mean Cloud has special bonds between Aeris and Zack, obviously. So in Cloud's mind, he can see Zack or Aeris sometimes.

However, I now believe that the Aeris appearance inside the Church of the Final Fantasy 7 game is no longer a glitch to some extent. I believe that the appearance in the Chruch was indeed Aeris's ghost as intended by the programmer.

Although, the Aeris's Ghost appearance has occurred before she died, but perhaps that was meant to be a prediction for Cloud because like what I said, Cloud was cloned and has special bonds with Aeris and Zack, Aeris is very special OR only that part is glitched (Aeris's ghost appearing before she died) BUT I don't think the whole part of that appearance is glitched because FF7 is ALMOST flawless, why only the ghost that was glitched? So, Aeris being a ghost in the Church after she died and Zack being a ghost in the photo makes it perfectly sense. If I believe this theory, then the ghost of Aeris is not a glitch ;) I'm pretty much convinced about this.

Oh, another evidence - Cloud saw Aeris and Zack in the light near the end of AC.

I know you would get scared if you see a Ghost.
Cloud didn't get scared when he saw Aeris's Ghost in the Church, he would have said something like "Whoa, Aeris! Where did you go!? What... she disappeared" but he didn't, which would increase the proof that it was a 100% glitch. BUT he didn't get scared when he saw Aeris and Zack's ghosts near the end of AC either. So that should prove that maybe it wasn't a glitch after all.

[Elly]

grasping for straws much? the so-called ghost in the game is a glitch and nothing more unless Nomura says otherwise... when making the game i don't think the play-testers went back to the church and if they did i'm sure many if not all missed it as the "ghost" dissapears so fast it's difficult to actualy see it let alone tell it's Aerith... only through the wonders of screenshots did we ever get a good view of the ghost to confirm it's identity, i myself have never been able to see more than a quick blur everytime i try to visit it at the times ppl claim it shows up, if it was infact a ghost i'm sure it would have lingered for a bit longer than the 1/4 of a second we have to see it, all other Zack & Aerith ghosts last long enough to actualy see them, though i'm still not convinced on that Zack in the photo in AC (could be a reflection)... also clone is used incorrectly in the game Cloud was not a clone of Zack or Sepheroth, Hojo cloned (read coppied) his research from the Sephiroth portion of the Jenova Project to attempt to turn Cloud and Zack into Super Soldiers like Sephiroth, but of course like the Sephiroth project it was doomed to failure... now when they say Cloud is a clone of Zack that is also untrue as cloud only cloned (read copied/mimicked) Zack because of Zacks constant talking to Cloud while he was under the influence of Mako Poisioning trying to keep his friend from going under and possibly never waking up again, unfortunatealy all the things Cloud took in while under the poisoning is what screwed up his head and caused his identity problems, he felt like a failure and would have rather been a hero like his friend Zack, that along with the before mentioned poisoning and infomation influx from Zack really messed the poor guy up... in short bad translation is to blame for the misuse of the word clone throughout the game...

[Serapy]

You can't prove that the ghost is a 100% glitch though, I can't either. But the Zack's Ghost being appeared in AC makes it more plausible for Aeris's Ghost to appear in the game that it's not a glitch to some extent because all the stuff are there, go figure. Also, like I said, the game is almost flawness (almost no glitches) so it's kind of fishy to point at Aeris's Ghost and declared it as a glitch.

[Aerisfanatic]

when i visited the church the ghost didnt disapear till i steped forward, i stood still for a while to examine the ghost and it indeed looked like aeris... i even called my brother down to see for himself and it didnt disapear till i took one step forward. oh and intresting to see they included the entire main characters there... including zacks ghost, and the flowers representing aeris.... i would have liked to saee a ghost image of her as well the zacks in the picture.

[Elly]

i can never get her to stay, as soon as i'm through the door she's gone, only thing i can think it's prolly cuz i always have my chars set to run by default and therefore run into the church, guess i'll try it again later after setting the chars to walk by default, don't remember if that can be done in VII or not, guess i'll find out... still it's a glitch till Nomura says otherwise... it is odd that with all the fan attention this particular "ghost" gets you would have figured he would have said something about it's relevance if indeed it was a ghost of Aerith, as far as i know he hasn't but if someone has a link to an atricle where he talks about it i'd love to see it, it would be cool if it was an official ghost, but till then i'll remain skeptical about it as no one speaks of acidents, only accomplishments and if the ghost was indeed intended i'm sure it would have been important enough to mention officialy, it seems important enough to the fans weither it be ghost or glitch...

[Captain Maxx Power]

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1954/deepzackpv5.gif

There, it should prove that it definitely is Zack.

Er no, that proves nothing. I've had a look at the original and the bit you've highlighted and can see only a slight blob that may be mistaken for a human face at best.

[Aerisfanatic]

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1954/deepzackpv5.gif

There, it should prove that it definitely is Zack.

Er no, that proves nothing. I've had a look at the original and the bit you've highlighted and can see only a slight blob that may be mistaken for a human face at best.ya i see what you mean since there is another buttress on the other side... but thie white spot by clouds shoulder, looks like shoulderpad... and i still dont think th ghost is a glitch cause glitches usually come in one type of form... but the ghost comes in diferent positions.

[Serapy]

There's a reason for ghosts to disappear all of a sudden - they don't want you to notice them, that's why they disappear.

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9439/z2wa1.gif

This picture, you see both lighter and darker substances (both in half) on the Ghost area, that's how you started having doubts but since I have a very bright monitor, I could see the area very clearly.

- Why is the Ghost next to Cloud?
- Why is the Ghost's hair black?
- Why are the Ghost's shoulders/arms naked? Just like Cloud. Zack doesn't wear full suit covering shoulders and arms. Just like Cloud. He wears almost exactly the same as Cloud, both of them also have the same swords, go figure. I'm a fan of Zack, I have seen his sights quite a lot recently.

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9648/10492230rt9.gif

The answer is Zack, obviously.

Unbelievable.

[Seal Evil]

I believe that the picture in AC undoubtedly shows Zack's 'ghost'. *Nods*

However, in the FF7 game, I strongly feel that the 'ghost' appearing in the church before Aeris dies, is definitely a glitch! There are quite a few glitches in the game.

[Serapy]

That part is maybe a glitch or a prediction. But if it's glitched, then the whole part (same effect after she died) is not glitched. There are evidences in AC.

[Raebus]

If you look on the picture of the gang (in serapy's post) then you see another "figure" behind Cid. All this points to one conclusion, Zack was cloned before he died and whilst one became a soldier the other opened up his own flower store and ended up travelling the world. He eventually died at that point and any photo that gets taken there, he's in.

Oh my god guys, its like...the ring, where it shows their face distorted whenever they've rung the phone and I'm seeing comparisons between the other ghost Zack and the girl from the ring here, they're in cahoots! Look at A) The link between games and films, they're both media so they're bound to be connected and B) The way I type this confusingly which confuses you, you'll see the light.

I should become the new wacko who posts theories about ff7 instead of ff8.

[Captain Maxx Power]

The answer is Zack, obviously.

Unbelievable.

I bet you also think psychic mediums are legit to boot? Seriously, there's nothing there man. Let it go.

[Bolivar]

I really don't see a reason to say it's not Zack.

Also, as Seal Evil pointed out, the only glitch about the ghost thing is aeris showing up before she dies. To say that one of your main characters, especially the dead one, shows up like that simply from a coding error is a very unplausible idea. I don't understand how that's even believable.

[prayzer]

yes, I saw Aeris in the church afterwards as well. I actually started a thread about it a couple of years ago and people told me that I was crazy and that it must have been a glitch in my game. But now that others have seen it, I know it wasn't just my game. Glitch or not, Aeris is still there until you walk farther into the church.

[Raebus]

I wonder, has their ever been such a thing as glitches in the same game across many discs? Oh your right, its just foolish to think that.

[Elly]

it's a glitch in the games coding, not just on some ppls disks, it's on all disks ever pressed, it's what's called in the industry "a sprite error", fortunatealy unlike some sprite errors it does not have adverse effects like freeszing or crashing the game, it's harmless, prolly another reason why they didn't notice it in play-testing...

[~Death~Stalker~910]

no its not a glich its aeriths lil hangout if i could choose where 2 stay when i died i would stay on tha couch :)

neways y would they put zack AND aerith in the same picture it dont make any since 2 b a glitch so it would hav 2 b on purpose

[Seal Evil]

yes, I saw Aeris in the church afterwards as well.
Afterwards? As in, after she died? You're supposed to. When you visit revisit Midgar, the ghost of Aeris is there, kneeling by the flowers. And I'm sure she looks up at Cloud before quickly disappearing again.

When you first meet Aeris, however, a flickering figure of her shows up in the aisle behind her, while you are talking to the actual Aeris who is standing in front of you, on the flowers. The flickering thing is a glitch. Not some... silly... 'Cloud could see what was gonna happen in the future' thing. I actually noticed the flickering thing during my very first game play & knew it was a glitch.

[prayzer]

[When you first meet Aeris, however, a flickering figure of her shows up in the aisle behind her, while you are talking to the actual Aeris who is standing in front of you, on the flowers.


I never paid that much attention when I first met her, so I didn't see that one. I only saw it when I revisited Midgar and went into the church later in the game.

[Serapy]

The answer is Zack, obviously.

Unbelievable.

I bet you also think psychic mediums are legit to boot? Seriously, there's nothing there man. Let it go.

So, are you implying that the figure in the photo is just meaningless? I'm just trying to invent more fun into everything about the game/movie. It's nothing meaningless about that. Everything about the theory are there, they are not subtle, there you go.


If you look on the picture of the gang (in serapy's post) then you see another "figure" behind Cid. All this points to one conclusion, Zack was cloned before he died and whilst one became a soldier the other opened up his own flower store and ended up travelling the world. He eventually died at that point and any photo that gets taken there, he's in.

Apparently, the figure next to Cloud doesn't seem subtle, it's actually more clear. This proves that Square Enix wanted to add a real meaning to the figure, by brightening the figure's visibility because they wanted to give hints about the mystery.


Oh my god guys, its like...the ring, where it shows their face distorted whenever they've rung the phone and I'm seeing comparisons between the other ghost Zack and the girl from the ring here, they're in cahoots! Look at A) The link between games and films, they're both media so they're bound to be connected and B) The way I type this confusingly which confuses you, you'll see the light.

That has nothing to do with the debate. It's quite, if not, 100% unusual to see ghosts in the game/movie. It's only Zack and Aeris. In ring, you see many ghosts, that's not unusual. The whole thing about Zack and Aeris is different, that's why.


I should become the new wacko who posts theories about ff7 instead of ff8.

Yeah, you should, but remember to bring reliable evidences and that will be fun :D


it's a glitch in the games coding, not just on some ppls disks, it's on all disks ever pressed, it's what's called in the industry "a sprite error", fortunatealy unlike some sprite errors it does not have adverse effects like freeszing or crashing the game, it's harmless, prolly another reason why they didn't notice it in play-testing...

How do you know that it's a glitch in the coding? You can't prove that, unless you have the programming source. But look at the circumstance of the appearance of Aeris's ghost in the game and the appearance of Zack's ghost in the photo, both of them match, proving that the Aeris's ghost is not a glitch, despite the effect of her ghost before she died though, unless that was meant to be a prediction for Cloud. You know what's funny? He doesn't seem surprised when she died, but then again, that could be his personality [trauma casued by his mother death] but who knows.

Also, the game is almost flawness (only few glitches, but most of them are applied if you used a gameshark), so pointing at Aeris's Ghost and declaring it as a glitch is just fishy.

[Super Sepiroth]

How do you know that it's a glitch in the coding? You can't prove that, unless you have the programming source. But look at the circumstance of the appearance of Aeris's ghost in the game and the appearance of Zack's ghost in the photo, both of them match, proving that the Aeris's ghost is not a glitch, despite the effect of her ghost before she died though, unless that was meant to be a prediction for Cloud. You know what's funny? He doesn't seem surprised when she died, but then again, that could be his personality [trauma casued by his mother death] but who knows.

Well just because you see Zack's ghost doesn't prove it wasn't a glich, it could have been and when making AC they decide to make the glich into something. I don't think Square planned that far ahead to be honest. But thats my opinion though!

[Skyblade]

When you spot Aeris's ghost, it is the Aeris sprite. Completely identical to her overworld sprite, IIRC. A solid, fully colored sprite. Zack, on the other hand, is appearing as a mostly translucent phantasm. Why would Aeris's ghost be a solid, fully colored form while Zack's is merely hinted at with lighting effects? If a ghost in FFVII are solid, Zack's ghost should be as solidly defined as all the other people in the picture, which he clearly is not. Similarly, if ghosts are more phantasmal, than Aeris's ghost should be a semitransparent version of the sprite (and they could have done that if they had meant to, because both Sephiroth's sprite and Cloud's sprite were shown as semitransparent many times in the game). I can see one of the two of them being on purpose, or neither of them, but I can't see both being intentional.

[Carl the Llama]

I wonder, has their ever been such a thing as glitches in the same game across many discs? Oh your right, its just foolish to think that.

did you know that the entire game was placed on all three disks and that the only difference between 1 2 and 3 is the fmv sequences that are placed on it? if the glitch/ghost of Aerith is on one disk then it will be on all three, how do I know this you ask? well I heard about it once and decided to try playing on disk three with disk 1 so I loaded up the game on disk 3 and while the game was running, I opened the PS and swapped the disks and played it without a single fault untill I saw one of the FMV's.

As to the "evidence" (I use the term losely) of Zack in the picture that is a complete load of smeg, as (being in property maintenence I spotted it) the "head" that you see is no more then support holding the floor, wall above.

and finally iv always wondered, why on earth does it matter? im not ownly asking this to the "picture" of Zack but the glitch of Aerith, seriously whats the big deal?

[Seal Evil]

and finally iv always wondered, why on earth does it matter? im not ownly asking this to the "picture" of Zack but the glitch of Aerith, seriously whats the big deal?
Yeah, I know what you mean. It seems like people need answers. Kinda scary.

[Serapy]

Alright, let's say, Aeris in that Church (FF7) was a glitch, but do you still agree that there's really an existence of ghosts in the whole FF7 universe?

[Cloudane]

Hang on, how does a decision in the writing of AC several years later, prove anything about decisions made during the writing of FF7?

I find it more likely that it *was* a glitch, and if the AC picture really is supposed to show a ghost of Zack (big IF), they put it there as a nod to the hardcore of FF7 fans who have been obsessing over that glitch for a decade ;)

i.e. if you accidentally create such a glitch, you can always ad-lib an explanation for it later on. You know, kind of like how they muddle their way through the play on the Cloud/Aeris date even if you make Cloud act completely retarded.

As for the AC photo... it does look like Zack now that you mention it, but the human brain is trained to recognise faces and quite often sees them in patterns. That's why you often see "faces" in clouds, flames, smoke, and even things like your curtains and wallpaper. So I'm sceptical. Also his "face" is part of the wall structure, which is symmetrical - there's another blob on the opposite side. His "shoulder" seems to be a reflection of a light fitting as the photo seems to have glass in front of it (see a reflection of what looks like a door or something to the left of Cid)

[Serapy]

Yes, the human brains are trained to recognise faces and whatever else, it's what usually happen in real life but this is a movie created by designers, so it's kind of the opposite. I mean it's quite unsual, the pixels in a good video game are usually more perfect than seeing real life things in such situations, I hope you know what I mean as it's hard to explain better. I have watched so many movies/games and I assure that FF7 only surprised me.

Since I was bored, I had fun doing this.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9274/x1di7.jpg

Copied the area of Tifa, the reason why I chose her is because she has the same hair, clothes and skin colour as Zack.
I dragged the copied Tifa area onto the exact same wall structure where the ghost of Zack is located.
(Zack's face is on the stoke, his body is under the stoke)
(Copied Tifa's face is on the stoke, her body is under the stoke)
I tried my best to make the copied Tifa area's opacity the same as the ghost of Zack. So far I think they are the same.

Let's pretend that the copied area of Tifa was intentionally placed by a AC designer. Now, come to conclusion, do they look not so clear to you? It's all because of the opacity, making it difficult to see them clearly.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7060/x12kd9.jpg

I tried to make the ghosts look more clear.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3082/x13yf2.jpg

Now, you can see the faces (because the stroke is brighter than the black wall (under the stroke). Which face is more clear? You tell me. The copied face of Tifa actually look like Yuffie, lol but it's really Tifa.

I always have had the impression that the designer added a 100% opacity image of Zack into the photo, then changed the opacity to like 25% or less.

You know the story about FF7's producer (I forget his name, sorry)? During the development of FF7, his mother has died. This is why he changed his mind and wanted to make FF7 as a little sad story by the death of Aeris to remind players about something, something about beauty or something like that. If his mother didn't die, the death of Aeris would have never happened.
He did mention that he always think about his mother (seeing his mother in real life, kind of like a ghost to remind himself how she's proud of him, etc etc). He also mentioned that he knew his mother was going to die...

So this true story makes the whole idea of Aeris being a glitch in the Chruch and the ghost in that photo (wasn't zack, just your imagination), etc etc less plausible.
I'll try to explain better why it was maybe not supposed to be a glitch after all:

He knew his mother was going to die = You'll be seeing Aeris in the Chruch before her death to remind you that she will die sooner.

His mother's ghost appearing (his imagination but in a good way) in his life = You and Cloud seeing the ghost of Aeris after her death.

In Chruch, maybe she WASN'T supposed to be flashing and disappearing because I have two theories: at that time, the designers of FF7 couldn't find out (might take them awhile to find out) how to make Aeris's opacity lower equaling the idea of being a ghost, but since they don't know how, they just have made Aeris flashing and disappearing. Flashing might not be convincing to equal the idea of being a ghost but what's the great part about it.. is that making Aeris flashing more interesting than just lowering Aeris's opacity. I believe that the designers wanted us to think whether it's a glitch or not.

Since the true story and the Aeris's ghost in FF7. Now think about the Ghost in that AC photo and the appearances of Aeris and Zack in the end of AC (Cloud seeing them near the pool in the Church).

Hah, now I have another theory. You know that the appearance of Aeris in the Chruch in FF7? Well, then why did Aeris show up again in the Chruch where everybody else were celebrating in the end of AC? That might even make the idea of Aeris's appearance in FF7 not being a glitch more plausible!

[Cloudane]

I know what you're saying, kinda, but you do see faces/illusions in games sometimes because a pattern is a pattern whether it's computer generated, human generated or natural.

A while ago I remember spotting what looked like faces and even a figure that looked like Quina from FFIX, in Everquest. However they were just random patterns in stone walls, and as they'd joined some textures with symmetry that also enhanced some of the illusions. (At the time everyone told me I was barking mad lol). So it does happen.

Your mockup looks more like Squall from FFVIII :whoa: FF's answer to the Emo has come back to haunt us :mad: hehe

The thing about her death being based on Sakaguchi's mother was an old rumour that keeps coming back. It's been debunked on these forums a good few times now :) His mother actually died in 1988, long before FFVII's development, and it's been stated by him somewhere that Aerith's death didn't come from that (use the search thingy to find out more)

I find it most likely that they changed when she was going to die, and originally there would've been some game content within the church. They then didn't quite take her sprite out properly. They certainly didn't have AC in mind back then as at the time it hadn't even been thought of.

However, IIRC in the finale of AC you get to see her tending to the flowers with the 2 kids (from the game glitch) before she stands up and looks at Cloud? Maybe not, I can't remember... will have to re-watch sometime. Again, I think this is most likely a nod to their fans who remember the glitch from the game.

P.S. You have way too much time on your hands ;) :p

[Aerith's Knight]

stop making up theories.. you see the ghost/memory/spirit of earis.. and even the kids look up when she disappeared.. wondering where she went

this is a prelude for the intervals in AC.. where cloud and Aeris talk

and no its not a glitch.. they prob had to put some more stuff in midgar then just to get tifa's ultimate weapon

[Raebus]

Right, so they did a prelude to the sequel film they didn't know they were going to make at the time of creating ff7? If your not being serious, I forgive you but if not, you shouldn't be telling anyone to stop making up theories.

[Aerith's Knight]

Right, so they did a prelude to the sequel film they didn't know they were going to make at the time of creating ff7? If your not being serious, I forgive you but if not, you shouldn't be telling anyone to stop making up theories.

lolz yeah i know.. but i still dont think it was a glitch.. why would those kids reference her?.. why wouldnt they fix it in the platinum version?

[demondude]

Because one of the game producers said it was a glitch perhaps?

[MJN SEIFER]

Listen guys and girls. I don't know if someone’s already mentioned this in this thread yet (I know I've mentioned it on other threads countless times!), but if it hasn't then here it is. If it has then I'm sorry.


Aeris appearing in the church is (IMO) a ghost and a glitch. It is a ghost as it is (presumably) only meant to appear after her death, but is also a glitch as it can and does appear too early.

I believe that Square either created the ghost for symbolism and made appear too early, or (less likely) a physical purpose, that was later abandoned, and they failed to remove the scene completely.

[Big D]

The only reason "Zack's ghost" is visible in that picture is because of the markings on the metal arch the team is standing in front of. That's not a face, it's a pair of rivets and a shadow. The arch is symmetrical, you can see the same features on the other side.

It's possible the animators did this deliberately - they drew in details that'd give the impression of Zack being there. However, it sure as hell isn't meant to imply that Zack was truly in ur photos, bein ur ghost.

[ReloadPsi]

You're all going to kill me, but...

I actually find this slightly believable. Remember the immensely vague chocobo cameo in Spirits Within?

[Big D]

Remember the immensely vague chocobo cameo in Spirits Within?No, I don't. Do tell!:D

Wasn't it a chocobo mascot on someone's epaulet or something?

[Serapy]

The thing about her death being based on Sakaguchi's mother was an old rumour that keeps coming back. It's been debunked on these forums a good few times now :) His mother actually died in 1988, long before FFVII's development, and it's been stated by him somewhere that Aerith's death didn't come from that (use the search thingy to find out more)

Ah, that probably makes more sense.
Yeah, I understand but I meant that Aeris's death wasn't exactly because of the producer's mother death but the feeling/emotion/whatever what he had due to his mother's death, made him thought about putting a character death in FF7.

It's a scary thought.


I find it most likely that they changed when she was going to die, and originally there would've been some game content within the church. They then didn't quite take her sprite out properly. They certainly didn't have AC in mind back then as at the time it hadn't even been thought of.

It'd be like a premonition if Aeris started appearing and disappearing before her death, too bad Cloud never has done anything about it. Maybe he thought it was probably nothing, just his imagination.

[arcanedude34]

I don't know why it's so hard to believe that the figure in the picture is Zack. And also, why is it so hard to believe that Aeris WAS supposed to appear in the church in FFVII? The only glitch there that I can think of is that MAYBE they had the ghost only appear when Aeris isn't in the party (which is only one time before she dies) and then forgot to make it so you couldn't see it when she was still alive but not in the party.

Another theory is that, perhaps, the ghost was originally going to have more of a purpose instead of just flickering off, but due to the time constraints (FFVII was already shipped out later than planned) they scrapped the whole idea, but forgot, ran out of time to, or opted not to remove her from the church.

Of course, it also may be a glitch, we may never know, but that is obviously Zack in the church in AC, and was probably intended as a quick little freeze-frame easter egg for those with a sharp eye (or pathetic social life with nothing to do but look for these things). It probably has no deep significance.

Leave it to Square to do something like this to get everyone all worked up. ^_^

[jammi567]

Why are you people still debating this, clearly obvious, glitch? Why can't you discuss another mysyery of the game, instead of discussing one that's been picked to bits millions of times?

[cloud21zidane16]

Why are you people still debating this, clearly obvious, glitch? Why can't you discuss another mysyery of the game, instead of discussing one that's been picked to bits millions of times?

Its just that gripping:D

[jammi567]

It's booooooooring, though.

[cloud21zidane16]

It's booooooooring, though.

joking:D

[MJN SEIFER]

Why are you people still debating this, clearly obvious, glitch? Why can't you discuss another mysyery of the game, instead of discussing one that's been picked to bits millions of times?

Are you refering to Zack's "Ghost" or Aeris's "ghost"?

[jammi567]

Both.

[MJN SEIFER]

Both.

Well I don't know about Zack, but I know (and have proof) That the Aeris "ghost" was at least meant to be a ghost, but is definatly a glitch now.

[Cloudane]

I know (and have proof) That the Aeris "ghost" was at least meant to be a ghost, but is definatly a glitch now.

Cool.... *awaits proof*

[MJN SEIFER]

Cool.... *awaits proof*

I actually said this before, but the FF VII Debug Room (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3kAZzt9bAEM&feature=related) says that the ghost is meant to appear after Aeris dies, and also shows that she was meant to hang around longer, rather than just "flicker" and vanish. Since this is a programme created by Square to test the game, I say it pretty good proof.

I still don't know why they tried to remove the ghost though. But I have a couple of theories.

[Serapy]

Yes, it's true. She was MEANT to appear as a ghost after her death, that's the whole point.

If Aeris was MEANT to appear as a ghost after her death
Then that would make the theory more sense that Zack was MEANT to appear as a ghost in the AC framed photo as well.

[Cloudane]

Cool.... *awaits proof*

I actually said this before, but the FF VII Debug Room (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3kAZzt9bAEM&feature=related) says that the ghost is meant to appear after Aeris dies, and also shows that she was meant to hang around longer, rather than just "flicker" and vanish. Since this is a programme created by Square to test the game, I say it pretty good proof.

I still don't know why they tried to remove the ghost though. But I have a couple of theories.

Interesting, thanks for that. I must've missed it earlier in the thread.

Okay, so having watched the "correct" scene in the debug video, it's pretty clear that it was intended to be a ghost. This is further supported by her appearance in the same place at the end of AC. In which case, the glitch was that she disappeared too early, as the debug version makes a lot more sense.

Even still I'm not convinced about the Zack theory. I really do think that's just a coincidence/illusion caused by the support structure and one of the globe-shaped lights being reflected by the glass on the picture frame. But I guess there's no way to say for sure either way unless someone from Square gives an official answer.

[jammi567]

If Aeris was MEANT to appear as a ghost after her death
Then that would make the theory more sense that Zack was MEANT to appear as a ghost in the AC framed photo as well.
But why the hell would he appear after he had effectivly said his goodbyes, along with Aerith, at the end of the movie.

[Serapy]

If Aeris was MEANT to appear as a ghost after her death
Then that would make the theory more sense that Zack was MEANT to appear as a ghost in the AC framed photo as well.
But why the hell would he appear after he had effectivly said his goodbyes, along with Aerith, at the end of the movie.

The shot of the AC photo took place before their goodbyes, I think. But them saying goodbyes don't mean they won't appear as ghosts, I guess.

Cloudane, is your monitor a bit darker? Maybe that's the reason why you can't see the area more clear?

[Cloudane]

My monitor is one of the brightest you can get (iMac), and yes I can see the area and I can see that it kind of looks like Zack. I just don't believe that it was intended to be him, I think it's an optical illusion.

Nor do I believe that pic where you can see "the devil" coming out of the twin towers smoke, and hold exactly the same theory there.

[Dr. Acula]

My copy of FF7 showed Cloud falling through the roof of the church everytime you enter it, which is weird, since I'm pretty sure you don't actually see Cloud falling through the roof when that actual scene occurs.:confused:

[Serapy]

My monitor is one of the brightest you can get (iMac), and yes I can see the area and I can see that it kind of looks like Zack. I just don't believe that it was intended to be him, I think it's an optical illusion.

Nor do I believe that pic where you can see "the devil" coming out of the twin towers smoke, and hold exactly the same theory there.

If the "optical illusion" thing on the photo seems to be generally relevant to FF7 then it's obvious that it was intentionally created by a designer. BEFORE I saw the ghost in the AC photo, I HAD no knowledge about FF7 ghosts then when I saw it, Zack came to my mind in like a 100% sec flat.

The devil thing on the tower doesn't seem to be relevant. But no way nobody can create the image like that. FF7 is completely different because it's a video game.

[Heath]

I didn't think it looked like Zack in the small cut-out you posted, let alone in the main photo frame picture. It just looks like a blob of light to me, not Zack or anybody else.

[Serapy]

I wonder if SE will adapt the Aeris appearance in the Chruch in the remake version of FF7?


I didn't think it looked like Zack in the small cut-out you posted, let alone in the main photo frame picture. It just looks like a blob of light to me, not Zack or anybody else.

Oh well, too bad. Even though the Zack's photo isn't the main concern.

[Seal Evil]

Mmm... I've always thought it was Zack in that photo, but after I read Health's post, I thought I'd have another look.

It seems that one of the 'blocks' on the overhead thingy (didn't word that too well) gets mistaken... maybe... for the face of Zack. (See red circles.)

But I think the makers try to play with our minds by putting in what looks like a shoulder; Zack has them bare, like Cloud. (See blue arrow.) Plus, I think the right 'block' looks slightly wider than the left, making it look like a face. Which leads me to think it really is Zack.

[Slothy]

Mmm... I've always thought it was Zack in that photo, but after I read Health's post, I thought I'd have another look.

It seems that one of the 'blocks' on the overhead thingy (didn't word that too well) gets mistaken... maybe... for the face of Zack. (See red circles.)

But I think the makers try to play with our minds by putting in what looks like a shoulder; Zack has them bare, like Cloud. (See blue arrow.) Plus, I think the right 'block' looks slightly wider than the left, making it look like a face. Which leads me to think it really is Zack.

I saw that thing on the left as well, but as you said, Zack's arm is fairly visible beside it, and right where it should be if that were his face. It actually makes me wonder if it's supposed to be Aeris on the left as the archway seems to continue on unobstructed behind these apparitions. There definitely aren't any separate blocks there in the corners from what I can see.

[Serapy]

I saw that thing on the left as well, but as you said, Zack's arm is fairly visible beside it, and right where it should be if that were his face. It actually makes me wonder if it's supposed to be Aeris on the left as the archway seems to continue on unobstructed behind these apparitions. There definitely aren't any separate blocks there in the corners from what I can see.

Exactly, if the area of his arm isn't visible and if he's more blurry, I would have never made this thread in the first place.

From my previous post with the photo I editted, I added a copied photo of Tifa (but as a ghost) onto the photo and she and Zack quite looked the same (same opacity, etc). From what I did to the photo, it obviously shows that I have done the same job as the designer who put Zack on there.

Vivi22, that left side is very unclear, there's nothing suspicious next to the arch thing (just black pixels between the arch thing), but yes it quite looks like a unclear face (Cloudane is correct on this one).
But the Zack area, it's WAY more clear.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7577/83864561xi2.jpg

The line pointed at his chest has to be his chest cloth.

[Aerith's Knight]

im sorry seraphy my friend.. but thats a smudge or a pillar.. i have raised my gamma and resolution as high as it would go.. and no.. there is nothing there

OMG ITS ALL IN YOUR HEAD.. OPEN IT! SO WE CAN GET IT OUT

*gets powerdrill*

[Serapy]

im sorry seraphy my friend.. but thats a smudge or a pillar.. i have raised my gamma and resolution as high as it would go.. and no.. there is nothing there

OMG ITS ALL IN YOUR HEAD.. OPEN IT! SO WE CAN GET IT OUT

*gets powerdrill*

I guess this is another post of yours, wanting me to stop making up theories again as you implied.

Smudge from where? The shoulder doesn't seem to be a pillar because a pillar isn't supposed to be a round. If it was a smudge, it would be very visible very next to the area of a thing. The zack's shoulder substance is white, and the wall is black, most of them are grey, so it can't be a smudge either.

Like I said, if I was sure that it was probably nothing then I would have never made this thread in the first place.

o_O

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9738/huh2bf2.png

Assuming the grey wolf is a represention of Zack.
Maybe it was that same grey wolf (inside that circle) with Zack on the top of it :p :p :p

[MJN SEIFER]

If Aeris was MEANT to appear as a ghost after her death
Then that would make the theory more sense that Zack was MEANT to appear as a ghost in the AC framed photo as well.

Well first we need to find out whether Square meant for it too look like Zack in a first place.

When I first saw the Aeris Ghost, I instantly wrote it off as completely a glitch, and having no relation to her death in the slightest - just a coincidence. But after seeing what I showed you, I realized I'd made a mistake, and it was indeed a ghost at least originally.

I have nothing against theories - but I don't see Zack, at all but I'm sure others will disagree that's fine.


Anyway back to Aeris, these are theories of what the ghost was for in the first place, as well as it being taken out.


Why it was there


It was part of an abandoned method of reviving Aeris (doubtful, as so much has proved that Aeris was not meant to get revived, ever, at all.)
It was part of another undisclosed secret, that was either abandoned or simply given a new method. (more likely, but why use Aeris's ghost, unless relevant to Aeris? Logically, the secret must have had some connection the her, or maybe the Cetra?)
It doesn't do anything, and is merely a "respect" that Square wanted to include. (this is actually pretty likely, the ghost could have slowly faded as Cloud tries to talk to her. This has no effect on anything but ads emotion to the game. A similar thing was done in FFVIII.



Why it was (badly) removed


The Aeris revival was abandoned, so the Ghost had to go (doubtful for reasons, I explained above)
Square simply decided that it wasn't needed, and removed it (possible, but why do a similar thing the very next game?)
It kept appearing too early (It's on disk 1 remember?) so Square were forced to remove it to avoid spoilers (Pretty likely, as I said it's on disk 1, and seeing as Square obviously failed to remove it completely, it's not too unbelievable that they had difficulty stopping it appearing too early)
The secret did not work correctly, so Square deleted it. (Probably, it doesn't explain why a split seconded of it got left though)


Hope that wasn't too long for one post.

[Serapy]

Nice, nice. But I still have a different opinion:

Why did the Aeris's ghost appear before her death (on disk 1)?

a) That part is ONLY glitched. Her ghost appearing after her death is not glitched as it's intended. When SE added the code, it was intended but apparently the code actually worked on all disks (supposed to be disk 4 only), counting as a glitch. It was intended, but her appearing before her death is the only thing that is glitched.

b) Some sort of premonition. Cloud, Aeris and Zack are related. Cloud then acknowledged that Aeris will die sooner when premonition occured, even though he hasn't done anything about it to stop Aeris from dying. Now in AC, as you see, he always ask for forgivenesses with his full desires, I wonder why. I mean, after her death in FF7. Time passed by (2 yrs) and yet Cloud still ask for forgivenesses.

c) Not intended, it was a glitch.. blah blah.

I'd choose between A and B, not C because it doesn't make sense. Many other things (if not, 98%) are perfect flow'd in the game, why only apart from the Aeris's ghost? Her ghost being a glitch is very hard to believe. It actually requires a NEW programming code for her to appear/disappear.

There are evidences to back it up that it wasn't a glitch. I can assume say that because there is no evidence that it was 100% glitched.

I doubt SE will enlighten us for a while because they want us to keep enjoying debate and serects, and those feelings for the replay value. I mean if they have enlightened us, next day we will forget about FF7.

I really can't wait to see the remake version (I hope that will happen) anyway.

[Cloudane]

I wonder if SE will adapt the Aeris appearance in the Chruch in the remake version of FF7?

Remake? Yet another rumour, and one that they've denied.

They've said they wouldn't rule it out, but nothing is currently in development... so basically, keep dreaming :D (Don't get me wrong, I'd love a remake too. I'd get a PS3 despite my loathing of Sony for that one purpose... I just don't think it's likely)

--

As for Aerith's ghost, after seeing the debug version I'm a lot more confident that it was intentional, and that the debug version was what we were supposed to see. But some random bug made her disappear too early. I find it very unlikely that they'd break it and then fix it in the debug version but not the full game.

Whether there was to be anything more to it, I don't know... we know that she was never meant to be revived, as I'm sure the developers have said that before (can't find the source sorry). FF7's style in some areas, especially the secret ones (perhaps because it was rushed out the door) seemed to match this, things would happen but it would be up to the player to interpret it. You don't get to see Cloud going "OMG was that..." etc.

[Mr Cactuar]

Just for the earlier posters: You keep saying that Cloud is a clone of Zack. He is not. They call it clone but not in the western sense that we interpret it (direct cloning). He was infused with Jenova cells and Mako/Lifestream to become a Sephiroth clone (again, not direct clone, but powerful like him). But as we all know, Zack and Cloud escaped the Nibelheim Mansion and Zack was gunned down while Cloud was left for dead. It is because of this that Cloud has memories of Zack and Aerith. He wanted to fulfill Zack's life, and give meaning to his own life.

And, I hope this doesn't start a massive argument, but there will definitely be a remake of FFVII. Square would make too much money of it for them not to make it and considering their 20 year plan for the FFVII universe, I predict it will be the last game in the project. Hasn't been announced yet, obviously, but sometime in the next 7 years at most, it will.

Oh and I can see Zack's ghost. But I have no copy of FFVII currently to see Aerith's and I don't remember it. I feel that the Aerith ghost would definitely be a glitch.

[Cloudane]

I wouldn't rule out a remake, but given how incredibly long they take to make FF games these days, they'd better get started so we get to see it before we die / Duke Nukem Forever is released / whatever :D

[Serapy]

I wonder if SE will adapt the Aeris appearance in the Chruch in the remake version of FF7?

Remake? Yet another rumour, and one that they've denied..

Nope.

[Cloudane]

I wonder if SE will adapt the Aeris appearance in the Chruch in the remake version of FF7?

Remake? Yet another rumour, and one that they've denied..

Nope.

Kind of. (http://playstation3.wordpress.com/2006/05/24/square-says-no-to-ffvii-remake-on-ps3/)

I suppose they didn't absolutely rock-solid deny it, which is why I wouldn't rule it out. But it doesn't sound to me like they're doing anything just yet.

Basically they released a "technical demo" and said from the outset that it was only a technical demo and not intended to constitute a remake, and then responded to the rumours with no further commitment for or against. So IMO there's a net negative. Like I said though, I hope they do make a remake, and look forward to seeing it in 5 years time if so.

[Serapy]

BBC NEWS | In Pictures | In pictures: Final Fantasy XII launch (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6398411.stm)
Click 4

If they said it's a possbility, then they will do it. They already know that if they lied in the future, the fans will feel let down.

I'm quite anxious about this though, it's very hard to tell if the Aeris appearance is all true.

In that Debug mode, you know there's something which will somehow show you that Aeris will say "I'm sick of this" after her death. I'm not exactly sure, it could be because of your data being changed but I don't recall any other character saying I'm sick of this in the game, only Aeris said that.

[Sephitachi7]

I read about this a while back, and if I remember correctly it is because Aeris was meant to die at the "Great Cave" instead of the Forgotten Capital. The Great Cave is the one where the weapons come out of and Cloud gives Sephiroth the Black Materia. This is why there is a cave in the Debug that is called the Great Cave and has Aeris' Song playing in the background. For reasons unknown they changed her death place to the forgotten capital. You can kind of see in the clip of Aeris' murder when Sephiroth comes from the top you can kind of tell it looks like the Great Cave before (and he no gloves) and then when angles are changed you can see a it's the Forgotten Capital (now he has gloves). Because the gloves mistake you can see that they probably didn't make it in sequence and it could mean that it was at one point changed.

BTW before anyone says anything I don't remember the source and I could be wrong. I read it a long time ago but I'm pretty sure it went something like this.

[Cloudane]

(I know this is quite an old thread, but it's only on page 2 so it'd seem silly to make a new one)

Just been re-playing. Out of curiosity, as soon as I escaped from Reno in the church, I went straight back there with Aeris in the party. Her "ghost" still appeared. Guess that blows the not-a-glitch theory eh :D

[Jessica_wohoo]

Yeah, I noticed that too

[Elly]

that could only mean Aerith had a premonition of her own death with Cloud, nah not really just kidding but i had to say it before one of those silly CxA fans did...

[Serapy]

(I know this is quite an old thread, but it's only on page 2 so it'd seem silly to make a new one)

Just been re-playing. Out of curiosity, as soon as I escaped from Reno in the church, I went straight back there with Aeris in the party. Her "ghost" still appeared. Guess that blows the not-a-glitch theory eh :D

Premonition, so it doesn't matter if the real being of Aeris was there or not.

"Guess that blows the not-a-glitch theory eh :D"

That's still not justified as to why Aeris and Zack appeared in the end of AC.

[Elly]

the appearance of Zack and Aerith in the church at the end of AC can be justified with two words "Fan Service"... but really is it so far-fetched to think that maybe Cloud was fondly remembering his lost friends? it's common in some anime for the hero/main char. to chase what they think is someone they recognize just to have the apparition dissapear and it's usualy explained as the characters chasing a memory, maybe something simmilar is happening here, Cloud sees his friends then they fade into the ether as they walk away...

[Serapy]

the appearance of Zack and Aerith in the church at the end of AC can be justified with two words "Fan Service"...

Huh, Fan service? That doesn't make sense. I don't recall that a lot of FF7 fans have told SquareEnix to make scenes of Aeris and Zack appearing in the movie. SquareEnix did it because it's part of the story, no way is it for fan service. If it's really for fan service, then SquareEnix would have already told interviewers that the scenes of Aeris and Zack in the movie are not part of the story.



but really is it so far-fetched to think that maybe Cloud was fondly remembering his lost friends? it's common in some anime for the hero/main char. to chase what they think is someone they recognize just to have the apparition dissapear and it's usualy explained as the characters chasing a memory, maybe something simmilar is happening here, Cloud sees his friends then they fade into the ether as they walk away...

Since Cloud is the only person who can see Aeris and Zack, nobody else can see them.

So if what you said is true, then it's also not far-fetched for Cloud to see Aeris before her death at the Church (premonition).

There's still no actual proof (unless one of you give proof otherwise) that the Aeris appearance at the Chruch is a glitch. There's a huge doubt on this assumption - FF7 is almost 100% glitch-free, execpt the Aeris one, so please explain why.

[Jessweeee♪]

I couldn't be bothered to read three pages of this mess, so I don't know if it's been brought up, but this site is definitely worth looking at!

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel (http://www.ff7citadel.com/)

The Secrets & Mysteries and Rumor pages especially n.n

It'll clear up some things, and make you wonder about others.

[Serapy]

I couldn't be bothered to read three pages of this mess, so I don't know if it's been brought up, but this site is definitely worth looking at!

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel (http://www.ff7citadel.com/)

The Secrets & Mysteries and Rumor pages especially n.n

It'll clear up some things, and make you wonder about others.

I've seen the website before, the mystery about the Aeris's ghost at the church on the page doesn't really prove that the whole thing is a glitch. I'm surprised that the website didn't add anything about the Aeris/Zack appearances in the AC version because at some point, they are mysterious.

[Goldenboko]

I couldn't be bothered to read three pages of this mess, so I don't know if it's been brought up, but this site is definitely worth looking at!

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel (http://www.ff7citadel.com/)

The Secrets & Mysteries and Rumor pages especially n.n

It'll clear up some things, and make you wonder about others.

I've seen the website before, the mystery about the Aeris's ghost at the church on the page doesn't really prove that the whole thing is a glitch. I'm surprised that the website didn't add anything about the Aeris/Zack appearances in the AC version because at some point, they are mysterious.

Not really. AC was all about Cloud's guilt. Guilt about what? Aerith and Zack's death. So if you take their appearances metaphorically they make a lot of sense.

[Jessweeee♪]

Well, personally I didn't really think that was Zack's ghost in the picture at first :p

To me it was just a glare by Cloud's shoulder and the texture of the formation behind them.

[Serapy]

I couldn't be bothered to read three pages of this mess, so I don't know if it's been brought up, but this site is definitely worth looking at!

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel (http://www.ff7citadel.com/)

The Secrets & Mysteries and Rumor pages especially n.n

It'll clear up some things, and make you wonder about others.

I've seen the website before, the mystery about the Aeris's ghost at the church on the page doesn't really prove that the whole thing is a glitch. I'm surprised that the website didn't add anything about the Aeris/Zack appearances in the AC version because at some point, they are mysterious.

Not really. AC was all about Cloud's guilt. Guilt about what? Aerith and Zack's death. So if you take their appearances metaphorically they make a lot of sense.

He has been like that for what, two whole years? I don't think so. He smiled at the end when Zack and Aeris faded into the white background. Guilt? No.
In the game, when Zack died, there wasn't any slightly guilt seen by Cloud.
Explain why Zack appeared in the photo, but not Aeris?

[Goldenboko]

When Zack died Cloud ended up completely shutting it out, which was why at first he couldn't even remember him, you can't feel guilty of what you can't remember.

Yes, he probably did feel guilty for the whole two years after the game. Which isn't really hard to believe, people go on their entire life feeling guilty over deaths they felt the caused, or could've stopped.

Oh your talking about that "Zack". Thats not Zack. Here look at my own picture to explain...
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z291/GoBosMacros/Debunk.jpg

The movie was riddled with symbolic and metaphoric scenes on Cloud's guilty. The wolf that appeared in the beginning but disappeared by the end, one could argue the entire geostigma struggle was a huge metaphor for his internal, seeing as he couldn't won until Cloud overcame his guilt.

[Big D]

He has been like that for what, two whole years? I don't think so. He smiled at the end when Zack and Aeris faded into the white background. Guilt? No.
In the game, when Zack died, there wasn't any slightly guilt seen by Cloud.
Explain why Zack appeared in the photo, but not Aeris?The grey wolf that appears throughout the movie is a symbolic representation of Cloud's guilt. This has been confirmed by the writers. The wolf appears at the church, the Forgotten City, and Zack's grave. Cloud didn't show guilt at Zack death during the game because Cloud didn't have a complete mind when Zack died. It was hours, or maybe days, before he was a fully conscious individual again. During AC, Cloud comes to forgive himself for what happened in the past; Aerith and Zack are a part of that. While Aerith's not in the photo at the end, there's a bunch of flowers on the desk next to it, which could be interpreted as a reference to her.

[Elly]

wow Seraphy, no need to blow a fuse, fan service was said in jest i figured it was obvious from the context... oh and there's no law that says weird glitches can not apear in what would normaly seem like a glitch-free piece of software... and honestly there's no such thing as 100% glitch-free, and if you believe there is i have this beautifull ocean-front property in Arkansas i'd like to interest you in...

[Goldenboko]

f you believe there is i have this beautifull ocean-front property in Arkansas i'd like to interest you in...

:lol:

[Serapy]

wow Seraphy, no need to blow a fuse, fan service was said in jest i figured it was obvious from the context... oh and there's no law that says weird glitches can not apear in what would normaly seem like a glitch-free piece of software... and honestly there's no such thing as 100% glitch-free, and if you believe there is i have this beautifull ocean-front property in Arkansas i'd like to interest you in...

Since I have knowledge of programming concepts, it's not impossible to make a thing 100% glitch free, especially for a console. Not all games aren't 100% glitch free, though.
In the debug room, explain why there's an existence of the specific event - when you select one of the options, you get spawned into the church room and sees the ghost of Aeris. That does tell you something.
Anyway, if it was a glitch, then it could easily get fixed, it's not hard to do. if (AerisGetsKilledl==true) } AerisModelAppearanceInDisc1,2,3,4 = false. So it doesn't make sense if they leave it alone knowing that it was an easy thing to fix.


Oh your talking about that "Zack". Thats not Zack. Here look at my own picture to explain...
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...ros/Debunk.jpg

That's your speculation. The problem is.. look at the colour of his shoulders compared to the background of the bridge, they look completely different.

I know Cloud has had a guilt, but that wasn't the entire point because I was merely basing on my theory.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9738/huh2bf2.png

k?

Big D, this one?

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4623/huhig3.png

[Big D]

There's an entire bunch of flowers - yellow ones, like in the church - on the desk next to the pictures. It's visible at the end of the film, by the photo with the entire group and the "Zack ghost".

[Jessweeee♪]

He has been like that for what, two whole years? I don't think so. He smiled at the end when Zack and Aeris faded into the white background. Guilt? No.
He smiled at the end of the movie because he'd forgiven himself, I mean...it's the end! Happy happy!
Of course they'll be a part of his life forever, whether he feels guilty or not.


In the game, when Zack died, there wasn't any slightly guilt seen by Cloud.
When Zack died in the game, Cloud didn't understand what was going on because he was still messed up from what Hojo did.


Explain why Zack appeared in the photo, but not Aeris?


As Big D just said before me the flowers from the church are right in front of the photo, also you could easily argue that Zack isn't in the photo at all. Though looking at it now, I think they meant for the block and the glare to look like Zack :p


EDIT:

Also that purpley photo looks kinda like RedXIII

[Aerith's Knight]

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/3/3/f_stupidm_8284192.png (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/3/f_stupidm_8284192.png&srv=img34)

the empire strikes back!!

whats that walker doing there? =)

[Rinoabella]

This is my opinion. That picture that you see the 'ghost of Zack' in (between Barrett and Cloud), I think is not him. If you look on the opposite side of the picture, there is a rectangular section of the stone roof that is identical, 'face' and all. They are merely texturized structures of the building. I just feel that if there was any intention of putting a ghost of Zack in this particular spot, it would have been made more obvious. Especially since it's a moving picture and it's harder for the audience to spot these things.

[Raebus]

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/3/3/f_stupidm_8284192.png (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/3/f_stupidm_8284192.png&srv=img34)

the empire strikes back!!

whats that walker doing there? =)

You've opened my eyes to something I never thought possible, final fantasy and Star wars are related to one another. In Return of the Jedi when Luke's father is killed, he isn't dead and goes to the after life. The after life isn't what he expects because it is in fact the world of Final fantasy 7. Once there though he became the shadow behind everything and secretly built walkers but you can't see them because they're invisible. They can only been KIND of seen through a reflection of a certain sword which is that sword!

[Serapy]

I think this is a Ghost Face.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6982/faceal0.gif

Does it look like a deformed face to you?

Jenova is deformed.
The Ghost (or reflected?) face is deformed.
I think they are connected in some way.

Ok, I hope this proves something:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5219/23768687ym8.gif

Some of you guys have assumed that the right side from the original picture looks the same as the left side. Well, I've enchanted this picture to make it look more clear. What does it tell you? The 1st side and the 2nd side look absolutely different (not the same colour). ;)

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7551/77586533tr9.gif

The colour of the background behind the white dot is different than other areas. It looks like a round of his right shoulder.

[Raebus]

I don't see any deformed face.

[Serapy]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2037/30220768ay3.gif

I wonder who is it? The face looks like Vincent.
I'm not sure what is the meaning of all that red stuff on the chest.

Big D, I understand. Yellow roses = representation of Aeris, and Zack being in the photo. That seems perfectly make sense.

[Avarice-ness]

I got bored.

http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i1612507_zomgnowai.png

First one's just showing the dominate 3D outlines and one dominate line that runs straight through the middle.
Second one is outlines and such, with that you can CLEARLY see that what some thing is his "head" is part of the architechture behind. You can even see the 3d shape of a rectangle that is -clearly- not the shape of a head unless they decided to go back to polygons for some reason. And the last is the original for comparision.

The end.

[Serapy]

I believe that the graphic designer has intentionally put the Zack's face onto the bridge's block, making it more debatable for us to agrue whether it's our brains are fooling us or not. The designer didn't change the colour of Zack's body, just the opacity that he changed.

It's the colours what mostly count, look at the enchanted image I've posted. The colour of each block of the bridge are slightly different, plus the colour comparison of his right shoulders and the bridge's background.

[Raebus]

Yes, the graphic designer intentionally did that. This is quite a fun "theory" though, entertaining.

[Aerith's Knight]

see! SEE!!

clearly darth vader

http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/4/3/4/f_77586533tr9m_3609e52.gif (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/4/f_77586533tr9m_3609e52.gif&srv=img36)
http://img36.picoodle.com/img/img36/4/3/4/f_faceal0m_3081fcd.gif (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/4/f_faceal0m_3081fcd.gif&srv=img36)

[Raebus]

AK, you reveal more and more each post. Keep going and we'll crack this theory!

[Aerith's Knight]

now the coup de gras!

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/4/3/4/f_30220768ay3m_11cc9e0.gif (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/4/f_30220768ay3m_11cc9e0.gif&srv=img34)

[Serapy]

You know the FF7 PC version also has the Aeris's flashy appearance at the Chruch. The position of the Ghost Aeris is different in both PC and PSX, meaning the developers has changed that bit without removing the Ghost Aeris intentionally.
Sqaure released FF7 for PC way after they have released FF7 for PlayStation.
So if the Aeris appearance at the Chruch was a glitch as you all think, then why didn't Square fix it before releasing the game for PC?

Anyway, regarding the theory, I think I have found something related in AC. During fighting against Sephiroth, you will see this first scene:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7991/a1dj8.gif
^ The church.

And a few later second, you will see this second scene:

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/6609/a2xj3.gif
Aeris was praying.

Those scenes seem similar to the FF7 event (Aeris being in the Chruch after death).

Those scenes are connected! It makes sense! :p

---------

Aerith's Knight, how about this one?

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7601/face2yj0.gif

What does it look like to you?

[Aerith's Knight]

OMG! yes how did i miss it.

http://img26.picoodle.com/img/img26/4/3/4/f_face2yj0m_99e745f.gif (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/3/4/f_face2yj0m_99e745f.gif&srv=img26)

[Serapy]

There's more evidence!

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7057/a3wf8.gif

Compared to the event in FF7, Aeris also was seen to be with two childs after her death.

[Aerith's Knight]

can everybody totally see obi-wan and yoda standing next to zack?

[Avarice-ness]

I think what AK is trying to say is that you're reaching for straws.

Also, all your evidence is open for interpretation. The clearly rubble of a building is rubble of a building. Aeris talking to kids, I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure IRL and most likely in this game *due to spiritual ties this game has* the kids can prolly see her. Why? Because kids are more intune with things such as spirits and such.

the pressence of Zack and Aeris is purely symbolic and I don't see how anything other than that can support any argument here.

[Goldenboko]

You know the FF7 PC version also has the Aeris's flashy appearance at the Chruch. The position of the Ghost Aeris is different in both PC and PSX, meaning the developers has changed that bit without removing the Ghost Aeris intentionally.
Sqaure released FF7 for PC way after they have released FF7 for PlayStation.
So if the Aeris appearance at the Chruch was a glitch as you all think, then why didn't Square fix it before releasing the game for PC?

The fact that she moved actually makes me more determined it was a giltch. They probably tried to fix it, but where only able to make it move, they gave up, and released it anyway.

[Big D]

I remain convinced that she was meant to appear in the game as a 'ghost', but there's simply some bug that makes her appear before her death. The way the ghost flickers and disappears when Cloud tries to approach is just too... programmed.

Her and Zack's spirits actually appearing at the end of AC add weight to that, I think (I mean, their obvious appearance there, not the silly "this picture looks like a face" thing). There are ghosts and spirits throughout FFVII, so Aerith showing up at her church is to be expected.They probably tried to fix it, but where only able to make it move, they gave up, and released it anyway.Seems unlikely... if they wanted to remove it entirely, that'd be quite simple I'd think. The bit where the image 'jumps' momentarily is surely a bug, but having her appear there briefly only to fade away seems deliberate.

[Serapy]

You know the FF7 PC version also has the Aeris's flashy appearance at the Chruch. The position of the Ghost Aeris is different in both PC and PSX, meaning the developers has changed that bit without removing the Ghost Aeris intentionally.
Sqaure released FF7 for PC way after they have released FF7 for PlayStation.
So if the Aeris appearance at the Chruch was a glitch as you all think, then why didn't Square fix it before releasing the game for PC?

The fact that she moved actually makes me more determined it was a giltch. They probably tried to fix it, but where only able to make it move, they gave up, and released it anyway.

No, that's not true because it's a very easy thing to fix, they didn't fix it because it's part of the story.
Plus, her event is in the debug room where you get the opportunity to see her ghost at any time.
However! During gameplay, you see her before death, so maybe that only part is a glitch, BUT if it's due to "spiritual" reasons, then the part (her ghost before death) might not be a glitch.

[Cloudane]

LOLz @ AK, some people might actually believe you, you know :p

As for the 'ghost's positioning, it seems to change in the PSX version too. I usually saw her tending the flowers, but when I tried it just recently by backtracking after the escape from Reno, she was stood in the aisle. Strange indeed.

I suppose it's plausible that it was intentional and her appearance before her death is the glitch. I'm highly skeptical though.

What we do know pretty much for certain was that lots of things surrounding her death changed at the last minute. There's very good evidence in one of the links posted a page or two back that she was meant to die at the northern cave. This would make more sense, as following that you have the meteor misery, the temporary loss of Cloud and general gloomy atmosphere, which fits the situation much better than cheerfully running off snowboarding before her body's even cold. But I digress... the point being that lots of things changed at the last minute. I personally think they just messed up the removal of a church related scene.

[Dr. Acula]

Perhaps there was going to be an extra scene with Aerith in the church but it was later deleted and it glitched up??? I dunno.

[Serapy]

Perhaps there was going to be an extra scene with Aerith in the church but it was later deleted and it glitched up??? I dunno.

Well, since the PSX and PC versions have different events of Aeris's Ghost appearance, so I don't think they hinted any plan for adding more scenes. Like I said, if it glitched up, it's a very easy thing to fix.

Yes, Cloudane. One of those maps have Aeris's song, which may indicate the death of Aeris down there because of the song, why did that song exist inside the map? It sounded very irrelevant but maybe it could be due to one of the developers have added the wrong song accidently?

[Sephitachi7]

I think there is no ghost in the picture. Like Big D said, there ARE ghosts at the end of AC in the church, so the programmers leaving the sprite there for a single frame was probably intentional. The true glitch is this appearing before her death. And as for the part where you see her and the she flickers and disappears that was definitely intentional.

A few posts back (I think in page 2, but too lazy to actually look) I believe Serapy said the game is flawless. This is just not true. Many glitches have been discovered therefore it is not flawless. Also many translation errors and spelling mistakes. 'This guy are sick'. Also I think that 'clones' weren't meant to be clones at all but a mistranslation or misinterpretation. The clones, as many have pointed out before, are not clones at all but just people who have been injected with JENOVA cells.

[Cloudane]

Some of the translation is atrocious :p

"Hmmmmm so that's how you'll fool them"
"Hmmmmmmmm so that's how you fooled them"
(eh?)

"Here, take this. I wish you'd take care of it."
(what? But I haven't been careless with it, I've never seen it before!)

Continue?
"Off course!"
(I don't want to be off course! I want to be on course.. for victory and about 10000 BP preferably!)

But yeah, getting off topic I guess.

I've likely said this before, but I suspect having the spirits appear in the church at the end of AC was probably a nod to the fans because of the glitch (or whatever it was) rather than being planned 11 years ago.

[MJN SEIFER]

Some of the translation is atrocious :p

"Hmmmmm so that's how you'll fool them"
"Hmmmmmmmm so that's how you fooled them"
(eh?)



I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how that's a translation error, and what it's a mistranslation of.

[Cloudane]

Simple - it's so badly translated you can't tell what it originally meant!

I mean, why would they just put some random meaningless lines in there?

[MJN SEIFER]

But...

It's not nonsensical.

[Elly]

i loaded up a gamesave before the Honeybee Inn on the PC version and the dialogue exchange in the PC version goes...

Cloud:
"Looks like i need to go inside to complete my disguise."

Aerith:
"...Hmmmm. Sure, Good excuse..."

Cloud:
"See ya!"


so yeah the PSX is poorly translated and nonsensical during that scene...

[MJN SEIFER]

Ok, fine then it was something changed. I stand corrected.

However, am I the only one who thinks that the "fooled them" lines make perfect sense?

[Elly]

because "That's how you fooled them" is in the past tense therefore makes no sense, since they're planning for the near future...

[Cloudane]

It just.... doesn't make any sense to me in the context of the situation. Fooled who? The crowd gathered outside? The doormen? Barret and Tifa? The people playing the game? What did he do to fool them and why?

You could... sort of read between the lines and get their meaning, as you probably would if it was actually in Japanese, but I certainly wouldn't call it a good translation!

Anyway yeah, they did fix many of the translation issues in the PC version. Even the rather roughly translated "I don't care." "That's it, you're coming with me" bit (approximately) near the beginning. I.e. why would Cloud's indifference to the situation make Barret decide to walk into him and join his party in battle, and if so why didn't he say "I'm coming with you". I can't remember what the PC version said, but it made better sense.

Ironically, I don't think they fixed the infamous "attack while its tail's up!" line.

[MJN SEIFER]

It refers to the people outside, notice how they gather around Aeris?

"That's how you'll fool them" = That's how you'll make yourself atractive enough to get in.

"That's how you fooled them" = You're evidently atractive enough.

[Cloudane]

I would call that more of an interpretation than an actual translation. A reasonable enough interpretation (the PC one is better), but it still shouldn't be required if it was written properly :p

[MJN SEIFER]

I would call that more of an interpretation than an actual translation. A reasonable enough interpretation (the PC one is better), but it still shouldn't be required if it was written properly :p

Ok, fair enough.

A lot of times when something isn't fully stated, I may often automatically make my intpretations and concider them as true fact. I should probably stop that...

[Aerith's Knight]

obviously cloud just used a jedi mind trick.. duuh

[Cloudane]

Cloud: Damn! How are we going to find Tifa?
Aerith: Use the Force, Cloud.
Cloud: Hmmmmm good idea! Right I'm going in!
Aerith: No no, not the force in your pants! The other one! Come back here!
Cloud: See ya!

[trancekuja]

No

[Fortinbross]

Actually if you have the Green Label edition of this game or the PC version or the PSN download, Aerith appears tending the flowers above the two children, then she begins to flash as if returning to the planet, then disapears. She stays around much longer than the 1/4 of a second one that appears by the door. Here is a link.

The Final Fantasy VII Citadel: Secrets & Mysteries (http://www.ff7citadel.com/secrets/sa_church.shtml)

[Rye]

Please don't revive threads older than two months, thanks.