Lost Season 5 - Spoilers EVERYWHERE! :p

[The Man]

starts in four days. In preparation I re-watched the entire fourth season, since I'd forgotten certain aspects of the plot, and a few things stood out to me on a second watching that I didn't notice the first time around.

Ben appears in Tunisia after moving the island; one can tell because he's wearing the same jacket in both scenes. That's where Charlotte found remains of polar bears as well, which, as you may recall, wore collars bearing the insignia of the Hydra, the large station where Jack, Sawyer, and Kate were held prisoner. From what Many-Named Asian Guy's video about the Orchid said, I gather that it has some kind of property that propels organic material through time if the right electrical current is applied, but how the polar bears wound up buried in Tunisia is anybody's guess.
In the flash-forwards, Kate is looking after Sawyer's daughter for him; that's what he requested for her to do before he jumped off the helicopter. I don't know why this wasn't obvious to me the first time I saw it.

Feel free to use this thread to speculate on any mysteries you think will be addressed in the upcoming season.

Spoilers will be inevitable, so I don't think anyone needs to continue marking spoilers as I've done, except for the most recent episodes as those take awhile to become viewable in PAL regions iirc. If you haven't caught up, don't read further :monster:

If you haven't seen the teaser for Season Five, by the way, it came out a few weeks ago (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=index). I think there was other promotional material out by now as well, but I haven't saved the bookmarks.

[Del Murder]

Let's get our Lost on!

Where did it show Kate taking care of Sawyer's daughter?

[The Man]

It never explicitly says that she's taking care of Sawyer's daughter, but it's pretty easy to fill in the gaps. That would be the identity of the person she keeps talking to on the phone whom Jack doesn't know; when pressed she admits she's doing something for Sawyer. That's the most logical thing for her to be doing for him, unless someone else has a better explanation.

[Del Murder]

Oh, yes.

[Craig]

i read a good theory as to why polar bears ended up in tunisia and I'm 99% sure it is correct. it goes something like this:

ok so ben turned the wheel, transported the island and was teleported to tunisia in doing so.

the cave place with the wheel is very cold and ben had trouble pushing it

whoever turns the wheel is transported and is unable to return as ben said

the polar bears are clearly property of the dharma initiative

put all those together and you can come to the conclusion that the dharma initiative brought polar bears to the island because theyre strong and can stand cold, so they could get the bears to push the wheel. that way the bear would be transported and they wouldnt have to sacrifice a member of their team from the island.

since there are bear remains in tunisia it makes sense that their plan worked and the island has been moved more than once

[charliepanayi]

Can't wait for this, starts on the 25th in the UK :)

Is Jin dead or not then? Though I can't see how he got off the boat in time, he wasn't shown really just before it blew up (unlike Michael), so there's some doubt there.

Look forward to seeing further battle-lines drawn between Ben and Charles Whidmore.

[Levian]

If a corpse isn't shown, they're most likely alive! :p It's always like that

I'm not as thrilled about this show as I used to be, but I still need to know what happens to everyone in the end!

[The Man]

i read a good theory as to why polar bears ended up in tunisia and I'm 99% sure it is correct. it goes something like this:

ok so ben turned the wheel, transported the island and was teleported to tunisia in doing so.

the cave place with the wheel is very cold and ben had trouble pushing it

whoever turns the wheel is transported and is unable to return as ben said

the polar bears are clearly property of the dharma initiative

put all those together and you can come to the conclusion that the dharma initiative brought polar bears to the island because theyre strong and can stand cold, so they could get the bears to push the wheel. that way the bear would be transported and they wouldnt have to sacrifice a member of their team from the island.

since there are bear remains in tunisia it makes sense that their plan worked and the island has been moved more than onceOh wow, that makes a lot of sense.

And Levian: In this show you can't even accept them as dead if a corpse is shown, as demonstrated by Nikki and Paolo. Then again, they were buried alive so they probably are dead now

[The Last Oath]

CAnt wait till it starts in australia. That polar bear theory sounds about right.

[charliepanayi]

The Man - haha I loved the way they bumped off Nikki and Paolo, clearly realising how pointless they were (well I hated them anyway!) and thus getting rid of them in the cruellest way possible. That's one of my favourite Lost episodes as well.

[black orb]

>>> Wow, I thought this show was over..

[Craig]

The Man - haha I loved the way they bumped off Nikki and Paolo, clearly realising how pointless they were (well I hated them anyway!) and thus getting rid of them in the cruellest way possible. That's one of my favourite Lost episodes as well.

it was a shame really that it didnt work out. given that the show is about 40 odd crash survivors it makes sense that others it would make sense that other people would join in on all the adventures, instead of the same people over and over again.

the writers had a chance to add some awesome likeable characters to the show without having to give an explanation, its just a shame nikki and paolo sucked so much

[The Man]

Yeah, if they'd been given more likeable portrayals I think the idea would've worked fairly well. As it was there weren't any real redeeming qualities to their characters, so it was pretty difficult to care about them.

[charliepanayi]

One Shannon and Boone was bad enough after all! We didn't need another...

I hope we get some good Sawyer one-liners/nicknames in this series :)

[Moon Rabbits]

i read a good theory as to why polar bears ended up in tunisia and I'm 99% sure it is correct. it goes something like this:

ok so ben turned the wheel, transported the island and was teleported to tunisia in doing so.

the cave place with the wheel is very cold and ben had trouble pushing it

whoever turns the wheel is transported and is unable to return as ben said

the polar bears are clearly property of the dharma initiative

put all those together and you can come to the conclusion that the dharma initiative brought polar bears to the island because theyre strong and can stand cold, so they could get the bears to push the wheel. that way the bear would be transported and they wouldnt have to sacrifice a member of their team from the island.

since there are bear remains in tunisia it makes sense that their plan worked and the island has been moved more than once

I like this explanation.


One Shannon and Boone was bad enough after all! We didn't need another...

I hope we get some good Sawyer one-liners/nicknames in this series :)

I enjoyed Shannon and Boone ... the only thing I liked about Paolo and Nikki was how they died - that was pretty cool :skull::skull::skull::skull:.

edit: New Alternate Reality Game (http://www.ajiraairways.com/) starting for Season 5.

[sdm42393]

Time travel, eh? I smell more plot holes.

[The Man]

I thought it was handled well enough. They seem to be going for the angle that it's impossible to alter the course of history, which substantially reduces the possibility of plot holes.

That said, they constantly keep surprising me. Every time I think the plot can't get any weirder, it gets weirder.

[Miriel]

I love love love that Lost is actually adhering to the rules of time travel. Does any other show do that? Heroes definitely doesn't, and it's such a huge pet peeve of mine.

[The Man]

Yeah, I like the fact that they're not doing the multiple universe thing that most sci-fi stories do. Most of the times that's just handled awkwardly and leads to time paradoxes.

Am I the only one who thinks Locke isn't really dead? If he is dead, he's going to resurrect as soon as they get back to the island. The fact that the producers won't directly address whether he's dead or not leads me to suspect that there's more to this particular issue than meets the eye.

I'm also kind of curious about Alpert. Sometimes I'm led to suspect that he has knowledge of the future or exists somehow out of time, but then he says things like "the next time I see you I won't recognise you" to John which directly contradict that implication. He definitely seems to have a lot more knowledge than any other character on the island. It's also worth noting that his name is derived from the birth name of Ram Dass, who wrote a book entitled Be Here Now. Given how insightful his character has turned out to be, I'd say that has pretty strong implications about the central philosophy of Lost.

[McLovin']

The weirdest unexplainable thing I think is that freakin old woman. First she's in a flash, then in a picture with some monk and now here??

And the stuff happening on the island is awesome. It could explain some things like who these hostiles were, the whispers (could be the losties themselves watching events happen!!!) and the 2 dead bodies found in the caves.

[Del Murder]

The time travel angle is ok but I wish it was something they had planned from the beginning rather than in the last two seasons. It would have been a total mindsmurf if weird crap from the first two seasons was explained by the Losties doing stuff when they travel in time this season.

Odd question: if the hatch had a back door how did they not find that in the first place?

I am sadly disappointed in the lack of smoke monster during the premiere. Need more smoke monsta! The Ben/smoke monster relationship is the most well developed relationship on the show.

Locke probably is dead but the island will revive him somehow.

[The Man]

Mrs. Hawking obviously has some connection to the island; she knew Desmond's destiny was on the island and obviously has some form of precognition. What exactly remains to be seen.

And I think the hatch's back door was obscured by something or other originally. It was addressed in the second season somewhere iirc.

The producers have said that Adam and Eve (the two bodies they found in the first episode of the first season) will, once the entire series has concluded, make it clear that they were planning everything from the beginning.

It's entirely possible that weird crap from the first few seasons will be explained by time travel stuff; we don't know for sure yet. It's entirely possible they'll do something like the Prisoner of Azkaban's angle on time travel, where the actions of the time travellers influence actions of their original selves.

[Laddy]

My head hurts.

[chionos]

I'm also kind of curious about Alpert. Sometimes I'm led to suspect that he has knowledge of the future or exists somehow out of time, but then he says things like "the next time I see you I won't recognise you" to John which directly contradict that implication. He definitely seems to have a lot more knowledge than any other character on the island. It's also worth noting that his name is derived from the birth name of Ram Dass, who wrote a book entitled <I>Be Here Now</I>. Given how insightful his character has turned out to be, I'd say that has pretty strong implications about the central philosophy of <I>Lost</I>.

I've been trying to figure out his character for several seasons. I thought I had him figured out toward the beginning of the premiere, but that line that you quoted destroyed my theories. Thanks for the info about where the name came from, Be Here Now seems to be exactly the concept of the character, if not the show as a whole.

I still want to know what's up with the freakin numbers that surround Hurley. And is he really seeing these dead people?(I loved the way they brought it in in this episode) I mean, is he just crazy or is this part of his relationship with the island, that he is able to commune with the dead?

I hope they're able to pull off the whole time travel aspect. It's incredibly hard to pull off, and pretty much nobody ever does it well. But I'm still hopeful; the show's full of genius and they had a plan so I'm going to keep up hope that they can keep from being bogged down by trying to make sense of time travel.

[sir helix]

iv found so many simularitys between the show and the book lord of the flys.

jack = ralph
locke = jack

and so on and so forth, iv also come to the conclusion that Hurley takes the role of simon (the christ like charecter) so iv come to beleive hes gonna die.

Locke cant be dead, and with the healing powers of the island once they return, he shouyld be able to get back up just like he did when Ben shot him. Alpert is screwin with my head with his not aging trick. And also there has tobe survivors on the frieghter, the C4 blew up in the middle right? so every one ran to the stern (manly jin) and with a combustion blast from it, itsnt it possable that he along with others were simply thrown into the water.

and has anyone else noticed that the dharma intiative guy on the film has a different name for each film he send to the stations

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

well that was the craze..

i think i need to lie down! Liked the first hour slighty better...its soo weird seeing Sun soo...scary-like lol!

[The Man]

I really don't think the creators are going to do such a direct ripoff of any pre-existing story. For example, who would Ben's analogue be in Lord of the Flies? Not to mention that Locke doesn't really share that many personality traits with Jack (Lord of the Flies); he's more motivated by a desire to protect the island and the people living on it than LotF's Jack, who was mostly motivated by his own self-interest. There are much more notable similarities between Jack and, say, Keamy. There are parallels between Lord of the Flies and Lost, but by far the most notable is that both are survival stories that take place on an island.

As far as Hurley and dead people, I think it's the island's way of communicating with him. It's worth noting that Hurley's not the only person who sees dead people; Jack, Claire, and Locke all have seen Christian Shephard, who's supposed to be dead, and Mr Eko saw his dead brother, among other people who have seen dead people. (The creators confirmed that Eko's vision was created by the smoke monster). Then again, Jack's father may not actually be dead, in which case Jack's vision of him in LA would just be a case of the island manifesting presences where they're not supposed to be (it also did that with Walt).

As far as the freighter goes, I do think it possible that Jin's not really dead. I doubt anyone else survived though.

Edit: Apparently Lindelof has said Hurley's the only one who can see the dead (http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b80289_losts_hurley_next_ghost_romancer_on_abc.html). So apparently Christian... isn't dead?

[McLovin']

They said Christian is a special case.

[The Man]

Oh, I must have missed that. That said, I'm still not abandoning my "The island has brought Christian back to life" crackpot theory just yet.

[McLovin']

About Locke's death. Ben seems to know something. And I find it odd that they mentioned Expose during this episode. Could be just an easter egg or a clue for us to remember what happened to Nikki and Paulo. (the spider venom) and that Locke could just be under its affects (a large dose).

[The Man]

That's one of my favourite crackpot theories I've heard yet. That would really make a lot of sense. Though I wouldn't put it past the island to be able to bring people back to life. (The creators have said that pretty much anyone who dies on the island is going to stay dead - however, they took a particular amount of care to emphasise the "on the island" bit).

[Slothy]

Ok, I like the direction the series seems to be going after watching the premiere. I have no problem with time travel and all that jazz, but, am I the only one who thought the last scene with the old women didn't fit the feel of the show at all? I'm fine with her knowing more about what's going on than she's telling anyone, but the pendulum and the hood? Struck me as being something that'd fit a Harry Potter movie better than Lost. Seemed pretty cheesy and out of place to me.

[Psychotic]

I don't really know how much of this is spoilers but what the hey, I'll mark 'em up.
Am I the only one who thinks Locke isn't really dead? If he is dead, he's going to resurrect as soon as they get back to the island. The fact that the producers won't directly address whether he's dead or not leads me to suspect that there's more to this particular issue than meets the eye.I think Ben's actions with regards to him have all but said that that is the case.
The time travel angle is ok but I wish it was something they had planned from the beginning rather than in the last two seasons. It would have been a total mindsmurf if weird crap from the first two seasons was explained by the Losties doing stuff when they travel in time this season.Absolutely, that would've been great.

Still, why doesn't Ethan recognise Locke when he first joins up with the survivors after the plane crash? I mean sure, I guess there's no proof that he didn't, but you'd expect something I suppose.

Also bahahahaha at Neil, total redshirt. He even had a red shirt I think.

I still want someone to explain the damn whispers. :monster:

[Del Murder]

Did Locke and Ethan ever have any scenes together?

[Psychotic]

According to Lostpedia, "While posing as a survivor, he accompanied Locke on some of his hunts".

I think the creators regret killing Ethan, from the way they keep putting him in various scenes at every opportunity.

[Slothy]

I don't think it really matters whether Ethan recognized Locke or not. Even if he did, he couldn't, and wouldn't, have let on. There's also the possibility that the two of them meeting in the past was long enough before the crash that he didn't really remember what he looked like, though I think him not letting on is more likely.

[The Man]

According to Darlton, the whispers are a sign that a character is in danger.

[sir helix]

during the first flash forward jack was being harrased about being drink or something, and he said call my father down here blah blah blah (cant remember what was said), so christian isnt dead.

[Del Murder]

That was more for the audience to think that this was another flashback, than a flash forward. I think in the context of the show we were later supposed to realize it was a joke.

[Gilghamut]

Regarding the whispers:

It could be the Losties that are shifting through time witnessing events unfolding in their past, but can't do anything about it. But the characters in their past hear whispers.

[Flying Mullet]

Ok, I like the direction the series seems to be going after watching the premiere. I have no problem with time travel and all that jazz, but, am I the only one who thought the last scene with the old women didn't fit the feel of the show at all? I'm fine with her knowing more about what's going on than she's telling anyone, but the pendulum and the hood? Struck me as being something that'd fit a Harry Potter movie better than Lost. Seemed pretty cheesy and out of place to me.
The pendulum had a piece of chalk on the tip and was marking some spot on the floor to coordinate with a "time/energy event" or whatever was shown on the computer screen when she sat in front of it. And she works/lives in a church/abbey/monastery of some sort, hence the hood. My guess is she's researching a spot and time where the mainlanders can get back on the island.


during the first flash forward jack was being harrased about being drink or something, and he said call my father down here blah blah blah (cant remember what was said), so christian isnt dead.

That was more for the audience to think that this was another flashback, than a flash forward. I think in the context of the show we were later supposed to realize it was a joke.
And I took it to mean that Jack was loosing his grip on reality and his pills and booze were taking a toll on him. Hence why all of the people looked at him like he was nuts in the hospital when he was saying all of that stuff. And as Del said, to fool the audience into thinking it was a flashback.

[Slothy]

The pendulum had a piece of chalk on the tip and was marking some spot on the floor to coordinate with a "time/energy event" or whatever was shown on the computer screen when she sat in front of it. And she works/lives in a church/abbey/monastery of some sort, hence the hood. My guess is she's researching a spot and time where the mainlanders can get back on the island.

I'm not saying there aren't logical reasons for what she was doing and the other things going on in that scene. I'm just saying the feel of it wasn't right to me. I know that's a pretty subjective issue with it. It feeling wrong isn't necessarily a knock against the show. I was just wondering if anyone else thought it was weird.

[Moon Rabbits]

Still, why doesn't Ethan recognise Locke when he first joins up with the survivors after the plane crash? I mean sure, I guess there's no proof that he didn't, but you'd expect something I suppose.


That was before the survivors crashed on the island, isn't it? Since Locke sees Yemi's plane crash just before Ethan sees him ... and that plane was there before the survivors' crashed, so it's only logical that Ethan doesn't knooooooow him.


Regarding the whispers:

It could be the Losties that are shifting through time witnessing events unfolding in their past, but can't do anything about it. But the characters in their past hear whispers.

I hope this is what it is.



The pendulum had a piece of chalk on the tip and was marking some spot on the floor to coordinate with a "time/energy event" or whatever was shown on the computer screen when she sat in front of it. And she works/lives in a church/abbey/monastery of some sort, hence the hood. My guess is she's researching a spot and time where the mainlanders can get back on the island.

I'm not saying there aren't logical reasons for what she was doing and the other things going on in that scene. I'm just saying the feel of it wasn't right to me. I know that's a pretty subjective issue with it. It feeling wrong isn't necessarily a knock against the show. I was just wondering if anyone else thought it was weird.

Yeah, that whole scene really threw me off. I knew it was going to be Mrs. Hawking under the hood (that was pretty obvious, imho), but something about the scene just didn't jive with the series . . . but whatever.

My favorite part of the premier was Sayid's total ownage of that guy with the dish washer. Awwwwwwesome.

[Psychotic]

That was before the survivors crashed on the island, isn't it? Since Locke sees Yemi's plane crash just before Ethan sees him ... and that plane was there before the survivors' crashed, so it's only logical that Ethan doesn't knooooooow him.Nah, I know that. I meant why doesn't Ethan know him when he goes to live with them after the Oceanic 815 (or whatever the flight number is) plane crashes. Does Ethan know about the time travel of the island? It's possible, but Juliet was part of that group and she didn't have a clue. And it's not like you'd send out someone really important on a suicide mission like that, right?

[Moon Rabbits]

That was before the survivors crashed on the island, isn't it? Since Locke sees Yemi's plane crash just before Ethan sees him ... and that plane was there before the survivors' crashed, so it's only logical that Ethan doesn't knooooooow him.Nah, I know that. I meant why doesn't Ethan know him when he goes to live with them after the Oceanic 815 (or whatever the flight number is) plane crashes. Does Ethan know about the time travel of the island? It's possible, but Juliet was part of that group and she didn't have a clue. And it's not like you'd send out someone really important on a suicide mission like that, right?

Oh oh I get what you mean now. I don't think Ethan knows about the time travel (tbh, I think only Alpert really knows what's going on) ... although, he is a different case than Juliet since she was brought in from off the island.

Anyway, doesn't the Lost world have a way of "course-correcting" itself ... maybe that's one of those instances where Locke just wasn't meant to meet Ethan and so it was corrected.

Aside: Frogurt's death = wicked cool. I'm assuming that the people shooting the arrows were just the Others? It seems like the only logical explanation for them ... like they were in the past or something and the Others stumbled upon them. Why they were armed to the teeth with fire and arrows I don't know, but whatever.

edit: Does anyone else think that Sawyer and Juliet might hook up? I hope so. Kate and Jack should go be lame whiney faces together while Sawyer and Juliet wander off and do badass things like being awesome.

[Craig]

i dont get something. maybe im being dumb but why did the island disappear? from what i understand the losties are being teleported around in time, not the island. richard said to locke "i didnt go anywhere you did " or something so i took that to mean that after the first flash locke and the losties got teleported to another time while richard and everyone else just stayed normal, so whyd the island disappear? maybe ive got my facts wrong?

[scrumpleberry]

idk maybe the first time it moved in time and space? who knows? Also I think it may have been the island moving in time with the losties isolated and staying in the same state just perched on the moving island, if that makes sense.

Also Richard yes you are wonderful <3 Also Kate quit being a drama llama you're still bloody annoying >( Also daniel thinks that desmond is speshul how schweet x) Also hatch paranoia Desmond is a very deranged Scawtish psycho and I forgot this long ago

[Moon Rabbits]

Am I the only one who thinks Daniel Faraday is 100x hotter than any other male lead on this show?

[The Man]

I get the impression that the island was intended to move forward in time and elsewhere in space as well, but that due to the absence of the Oceanic Six it went poorly. That said I'm not going to think about it too much; I'm sure it'll be explained in due course.

[PeneloRatsbane]

Am I the only one who thinks Daniel Faraday is 100x hotter than any other male lead on this show?

i dunno about that as there is a whole load of fine male tail on this show. but yeah there is something very sexy about Daniel Faraday, can't put my finger on it but i'm liking him more and more

[Loony BoB]

If you really want to get a lot of information about the whispers, go to Lostpedia and look up the whisper transcripts. Basically all the whispers can be decoded and people have established what is being said. I enjoy this sort of thing - they aren't massive spoilers as they're all fairly jumbled and random but it's amusing to know what is being said.

Be warned, though: Lostpedia is full of spoilers and other such things.

[Del Murder]

How can you say Faraday is hotter than Sawyer?

[Psychotic]

Sawyer is the only man I would go gay for.

Except maybe Fernando Torres. :love:

[Flying Mullet]

How can you say Faraday is hotter than Sawyer?
Faraday leaves his shirt on. The mystery is titillating.

[Moon Rabbits]

If you really want to get a lot of information about the whispers, go to Lostpedia and look up the whisper transcripts. Basically all the whispers can be decoded and people have established what is being said. I enjoy this sort of thing - they aren't massive spoilers as they're all fairly jumbled and random but it's amusing to know what is being said.

Be warned, though: Lostpedia is full of spoilers and other such things.

Yeah, I've read those before ... they seemed like just a bunch of nonsense (which could just disprove the time travel theory altogether, since I don't really understand why the Losties still on the island would say half the stuff the transcripts claim they do). The whispers were apparently just supposed to be the Others, originally, but apparently the writers changed their minds.

edit: I'd also like to throw this out there: Mrs. Hawking = Daniel Faraday's mother.

[Flying Mullet]

Here's some parental theories that have been floating around:


Faraday's mother is Mrs. Hawking or whomever the older lady under the hood and from the jewelry store is.
Miles' father is the Dharma Initiative guy in all of the videos and Miles is the baby at the beginning of the season premier.


Also, since we're on time travel, as Desmond was going to die when he was on the freighter because he wasn't "grounded", will the same thing happen to the island Losties?

[Miriel]

Also bahahahaha at Neil, total redshirt. He even had a red shirt I think.


Most blatant red shirt, EVER! And he totally was wearing an actual red shirt. :p

Also, bitch slapped, yo!

http://i39.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/1zvfiab.jpg

Sawyer >>>>> Faraday

[Levian]

eh starting to lose interest now. I'm ready to see who lives, who dies and who hooks up with Kate.

[Moon Rabbits]

Also, since we're on time travel, as Desmond was going to die when he was on the freighter because he wasn't "grounded", will the same thing happen to the island Losties?


That's already happening, I think. Remember how Charlotte's nose kept bleeding? That's what happened to the guy on the Freighter before he died from being "unstuck."

[Miriel]

eh starting to lose interest now. I'm ready to see who lives, who dies and who hooks up with Kate.

Me too. Trying to figure out Lost is just draining and not fun anymore. I'm really not interested in theories and continuity or the questions and nonexistent answers anymore. I just don't care. Don't really care.

All I expect from Lost now is just to be entertained for 45 minutes, regardless of whether what I'm watching makes sense or not. The only thing I want is to know what the island is, but aside from that, I don't care to keep up with the various plot twists anymore.

[Loony BoB]

Regarding the whispers again: Apparently Miles talked in the same 'language' when he talks to Naomi's dead body in the previous seasons.

[Psychotic]

Yeah the island is filled with a bunch of dislikable new characters (Faraday's okay I guess) and it's just hard to give a :skull::skull::skull::skull: about what happens to any of them.

Apparently there's a bunch of high-frequency whispers that are going on all the time in the show's audio track and some people have decoded them. It's interesting reading if you see the transcripts.

[Craig]

Here's some parental theories that have been floating around:


Faraday's mother is Mrs. Hawking or whomever the older lady under the hood and from the jewelry store is.
Miles' father is the Dharma Initiative guy in all of the videos and Miles is the baby at the beginning of the season premier.


Also, since we're on time travel, as Desmond was going to die when he was on the freighter because he wasn't "grounded", will the same thing happen to the island Losties?



yeah does anyone else thing that miles and pierre chang (the guy in all the videos) both look very similar? or is it just me

[McLovin']

That's racist. :(

[PeneloRatsbane]

not as racist as my mum who said "what! why is Sun in bed with that dharma science man." to be fair she did just have a quick glance at the woman but still, we all gave her disgusted looks

[Loony BoB]

That's on par with saying you hate certain types of dogs just because you don't know the names of different breeds. People think it's racist to not know the exact characteristics of every ethnicity in the world, but really it's just a case of not being knowledgeable on such things.

[Flying Mullet]

Innocent ignorance versus racist ignorance.

[Loony BoB]

I suppose in some way it's like people assuming I'm Australian when they hear my voice, but I don't get upset at that, as I think it would be silly. I can understand that people can get such things easily confused.

[Croyles]

not as racist as my mum who said "what! why is Sun in bed with that dharma science man." to be fair she did just have a quick glance at the woman but still, we all gave her disgusted looks

Im actually guilty of that too.

[Craig]

That's racist. :(

no its not racist. it would be racist if i was saying they look similar just because theyre both asian, which im not. i genuinely believe they have similar facial features

[McLovin']

im just joking xD wipe that srsface off.

[Craig]

im just joking xD wipe that srsface off.

haha ok my bad. xx

[Spiffing Cheese]

Also, bitch slapped, yo!

http://i39.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:/1zvfiab.jpg

Sawyer >>>>> Faraday

Sawyer >>>>> anyone in the entire world, ever. :D

Y'know, I really don't care how freaking ridiculous the show gets, I love it anyway. No matter how much it bugs me, I still get insanely excited about it.

Do we know what's happened to Claire?

[scrumpleberry]

We think she's dead, or at least in the same situation as Jack's dad, Kate's horse and all the other creepy illusion thingies. Her house caught fire, remember?

Also yeah all of the new characters suck enormously, even Faraday a little bit. I could shoot that ginger.

[Spiffing Cheese]

We think she's dead, or at least in the same situation as Jack's dad, Kate's horse and all the other creepy illusion thingies. Her house caught fire, remember?

Also yeah all of the new characters suck enormously, even Faraday a little bit. I could shoot that ginger.

Oooh yeah, I totally forgot about that.

Charlotte? She needs to die.

[charliepanayi]

Charlotte seems pretty neutral really for me, Miles is meant to be a git so I quite like him, and I think Daniel is great, he's one of my favourite characters in the show now.

Nothing beats Sawyer when he's in full rant and nicknames mode though.

And Claire is dead, or the Island has her or something. A rocket launcher to the house you're in will usually do that to someone.

[Loony BoB]

I dunno, I love Miles because he's a different type of character, a snarky rotten bastard. Most of all though, I love how he seems to be able to do fancy things, and understands how to do it (so it's not just another guy going around freaking out saying "omg i hav ability can't undrstand!!!"). Daniel just has an awesome name, but he's also got a nice quirk to him that is rather endearing.

Charlotte? Another hard-nosed cow? Urgh, enough of that, please.

Sawyer was never my preferred character, personally. Seems to over-the-top with the "insanely super mega macho man on the outside, sensitive guy deep-deep down who just needs the right girl to get that out of him..." thing. Such a typical American character designed to make the chicks flock to the show. Still, at least he's not miserable as often as Jack is, I suppose. I prefer all the other characters. Sawyer's too unrealistic and Jack's too mopey. The rest have more depth to them in my eyes. Jin is the best of the lot, though.

[scrumpleberry]

Kate annoys me now as well. She's perpetually dealing with TRAGYK INNER TURMOIL and it's just like, shut up.

[Moon Rabbits]

And Claire is dead, or the Island has her or something. A rocket launcher to the house you're in will usually do that to someone.

Sawyer saved her from the house, didn't he? Last I remember of Claire, she left Aaron and wandered off following Christian ... she was in Jacob's cabin after that. I don't think she's dead, though.


Jin was* the best of the lot, though.

[charliepanayi]

And Claire is dead, or the Island has her or something. A rocket launcher to the house you're in will usually do that to someone.

Sawyer saved her from the house, didn't he? Last I remember of Claire, she left Aaron and wandered off following Christian ... she was in Jacob's cabin after that. I don't think she's dead, though.


Jin was* the best of the lot, though.

Sawyer pulled her out the wreckage of a house, one which it's unlikely someone could have survived being buried under it. And there was the fact that Miles just let her walk off without doing anything, he would have maybe known if she was dead.

[Moon Rabbits]

And Claire is dead, or the Island has her or something. A rocket launcher to the house you're in will usually do that to someone.

Sawyer saved her from the house, didn't he? Last I remember of Claire, she left Aaron and wandered off following Christian ... she was in Jacob's cabin after that. I don't think she's dead, though.


Jin was* the best of the lot, though.

Sawyer pulled her out the wreckage of a house, one which it's unlikely someone could have survived being buried under it. And there was the fact that Miles just let her walk off without doing anything, he would have maybe known if she was dead.

Yeah, but she was evidently alive when she was pulled from the wreckage. She interacts with Sawyer and others before wandering off.

[Del Murder]

I don't think Claire or Jin are dead.

[Flying Mullet]

Jin was* the best of the lot, though.
Jin's alive. Not only did most people suspect that he jumped from the freighter when it exploded, but in the recap of Lost before the season premier last week, one of the producers said something to the effect of Sun's missing husband instead of Sun's dead husband.

[PeneloRatsbane]

Charlotte? Another hard-nosed cow? Urgh, enough of that, please.
.

thats what i thought at first, but i rewatched s4 and watched the first s.5 episodes and changed my mind.

1.first, she does tht cool flipy getting out of the tree into the water thing.
2.then shes all bright eyed towards Locke and tht lot and they take her captive,
3.she does come across as a bit bitchy but why should she care about a bunch of people who treat her badly and didn't she get shot by someone.
4. I love Juliet and Kate but Charlotte kicked there asses!! she really knows how to kick some butt.
5. She speaks Korean, which is helpful if Jin turns up.
6. She looked genuinely concerned when Jin threatens to break Daniel's fingers, she is quick to defend him which is sweet.
7. lots of mystery surrounds her, and she found that cool Dharma relic in the desert, again looking all bright eyed.
8. at first i thought she was a bit of an unattractive gal, but she's pretty in a weird way.
9. Her recent troubles have given her an air of vulnerability, i actually felt scared when Faraday see's that her nose was bleeding.
10. the advert playing on Sky 1 in the uk at the mo, if u've seen it you'll know to what i'm refering maybe i just feel bad for Faraday, cos he looks really upset, but i think i love Charlotte a bit, its weird it litterally just occurred to me today when i thought about the character

[sdm42393]

Am I the only one who thinks Daniel Faraday is 100x hotter than any other male lead on this show?

:D

[Spiffing Cheese]

Sawyer was never my preferred character, personally. Seems to over-the-top with the "insanely super mega macho man on the outside, sensitive guy deep-deep down who just needs the right girl to get that out of him..." thing. Such a typical American character designed to make the chicks flock to the show. Still, at least he's not miserable as often as Jack is, I suppose. I prefer all the other characters. Sawyer's too unrealistic and Jack's too mopey. The rest have more depth to them in my eyes. Jin is the best of the lot, though.

Jack is the most fail-worthy character in the entire show, and always has been. Even in his flashbacks he is full of total fail. He's just like, "...insert emo whining here, I-am-leader, I LEAD YOU ALL, whine whine whine *cries*..." in every episode.

Sawyer, however, is awesome, and his storylines are so much more interesting than Jack's. Plus, he doesn't, y'know, have tear-filled eyes every six seconds, which is a plus.

What was UP with Sawyer's obsession with his shirt, anyway? He was just like "OH. YOU. Give me your shirt!" to EVERYONE. It was bizarre.

[Moon Rabbits]

Widmore is an Other ??

[Flying Mullet]

Widmore is an Other ??
My guess is that Charles and Ben had some power struggle over who should be the next leader of the Others and when Ben killed off the Dharma Initiative, including his father, he proved he was the next leader, just like Locke was supposed to kill his father. Richard said that they have a very special selection process for their leaders, and either Charles didn't have his father available to kill or he couldn't go through with it, so Ben became the leader and Charles was kicked off of the island, vowing to find it and return one day.

[NeoCracker]

Well, this thread has inspired me to watch this show. :p

That and my intense boredom....

[Levian]

Daniel Faraday is just annoying, he takes forever to speak. When he's not pausing for dramatic effect, he's speaking sloooowly. The show is only 40 minutes dammit!

[PeneloRatsbane]

Daniel Faraday is just annoying, he takes forever to speak. When he's not pausing for dramatic effect, he's speaking sloooowly. The show is only 40 minutes dammit!

aww i love him, he's so weird, and what was up with his hair when Desmond visited him at oxford, it was genius

[scrumpleberry]

Charlotte? Another hard-nosed cow? Urgh, enough of that, please.
.

thats what i thought at first, but i rewatched s4 and watched the first s.5 episodes and changed my mind.

1.first, she does tht cool flipy getting out of the tree into the water thing.
2.then shes all bright eyed towards Locke and tht lot and they take her captive,
3.she does come across as a bit bitchy but why should she care about a bunch of people who treat her badly and didn't she get shot by someone.
4. I love Juliet and Kate but Charlotte kicked there asses!! she really knows how to kick some butt.
5. She speaks Korean, which is helpful if Jin turns up.
6. She looked genuinely concerned when Jin threatens to break Daniel's fingers, she is quick to defend him which is sweet.
7. lots of mystery surrounds her, and she found that cool Dharma relic in the desert, again looking all bright eyed.
8. at first i thought she was a bit of an unattractive gal, but she's pretty in a weird way.
9. Her recent troubles have given her an air of vulnerability, i actually felt scared when Faraday see's that her nose was bleeding.
10. the advert playing on Sky 1 in the uk at the mo, if u've seen it you'll know to what i'm refering maybe i just feel bad for Faraday, cos he looks really upset, but i think i love Charlotte a bit, its weird it litterally just occurred to me today when i thought about the character


Doesn't stop her being annoying though.

[Spiffing Cheese]

Ha. See ya, Charlotte. :p

[Del Murder]

Too much of a filler episode, but it was cool to see Whitmore as a young man on the island. Only cool part of the episode I think!

The girl that was holding Faraday was really annoying. She didn't open her mouth when she talked.

Also did anyone notice the way Charlotte fell? It looked really funny.

[Flying Mullet]

Charlotte's the only one that's been affected by the time travel yet. Does this mean that the island hates gingers?

[PeneloRatsbane]

she's not going to die for a while tho, cos there are too many questions surround her, i don't want her to die at all tho, its nice to have a brainy girl on Lost ( apart from Juliet of course) who can also fight like a legend. As far as i'm aware shes the only ginger thats been on lost, is that right? they need to keep her to keep the diversity up :D

[McLovin']

Oh wow major spoiler theory:

The girl called Ellie (blonde chick with the gun) is familiar to Daniel. And we know that Ms. Hawkings has not had her first name revealed soooooo...Ellie is his mom. Mogod.

and going off that, couldn't widmore and ellie have got it on and made a child? dun dun dun

or maybe 2...one called Penny and one called Daniel...

[scrumpleberry]

She's not a very good ginger or brainy representative though BECAUSE SHE'S SO BLOODY ANNOYING. She's a wannabe Lara.

[Flying Mullet]

Oh wow major spoiler theory:

The girl called Ellie (blonde chick with the gun) is familiar to Daniel. And we know that Ms. Hawkings has not had her first name revealed soooooo...Ellie is his mom. Mogod.

and going off that, couldn't widmore and ellie have got it on and made a child? dun dun dun

or maybe 2...one called Penny and one called Daniel...
Good stuff.

[Moon Rabbits]

Oh wow major spoiler theory:

The girl called Ellie (blonde chick with the gun) is familiar to Daniel. And we know that Ms. Hawkings has not had her first name revealed soooooo...Ellie is his mom. Mogod.

and going off that, couldn't widmore and ellie have got it on and made a child? dun dun dun

or maybe 2...one called Penny and one called Daniel...

I've thought that Mrs. Hawking was Daniel's mother ever since he told Desmond to find her. Your theory is interesting, though - it explains why Widmore would be funding that comatose girl's health care.

My friend had an interesting point when we were watching it last night. What if Jacob is Locke? Maybe Locke dies in the past and his ghost inhabits ye old cabin?

[Kirobaito]

Oh wow major spoiler theory:

The girl called Ellie (blonde chick with the gun) is familiar to Daniel. And we know that Ms. Hawkings has not had her first name revealed soooooo...Ellie is his mom. Mogod.

and going off that, couldn't widmore and ellie have got it on and made a child? dun dun dun

or maybe 2...one called Penny and one called Daniel...
Actually, This theory is indisputably correct. Well, the first part. Mrs. Hawking's first name has been revealed, as it was during the "enhanced" version of "The Lie" that got shown immediately before this one. They identify her as Eloise Hawking. So, yeah, I don't know why they dropped the ball and verified this theory. Though I was pretty sure of it, anyway. The way they characterized Mrs. Hawking had her share a lot of mannerisms with Daniel in that last scene of "The Lie." No idea about Widmore being the father, though.

Also... obviously, Locke speaking to Richard right now in 1954 is what leads him to visiting Locke at his birth and then in the early 60's to test him for that school. According to what we saw, Locke failed that test by choosing the knife instead of the compass. Maybe, that sealed Richard's conclusions. The compass wasn't Locke's. Therefore, Richard had to give Locke the compass in the future, which validates everything that Locke told him in 1954.

[Moon Rabbits]

Oh wow major spoiler theory:

The girl called Ellie (blonde chick with the gun) is familiar to Daniel. And we know that Ms. Hawkings has not had her first name revealed soooooo...Ellie is his mom. Mogod.

and going off that, couldn't widmore and ellie have got it on and made a child? dun dun dun

or maybe 2...one called Penny and one called Daniel...
Actually, This theory is indisputably correct. Well, the first part. Mrs. Hawking's first name has been revealed, as it was during the "enhanced" version of "The Lie" that got shown immediately before this one. They identify her as Eloise Hawking. So, yeah, I don't know why they dropped the ball and verified this theory. Though I was pretty sure of it, anyway. The way they characterized Mrs. Hawking had her share a lot of mannerisms with Daniel in that last scene of "The Lie." No idea about Widmore being the father, though.

Also... obviously, Locke speaking to Richard right now in 1954 is what leads him to visiting Locke at his birth and then in the early 60's to test him for that school. According to what we saw, Locke failed that test by choosing the knife instead of the compass. Maybe, that sealed Richard's conclusions. The compass wasn't Locke's. Therefore, Richard had to give Locke the compass in the future, which validates everything that Locke told him in 1954.

Yeah, I'm assuming this theory is fact. Also, Faraday's rat was named Eloise.

Oh, and wtf@Jughead? So the American military knows about the Island? Were they actually ON the Island, or did they just happen to fire a nuke at it (which, I assumed the Island froze so the Others could suspend it)?

[Kirobaito]

Oh wow major spoiler theory:

The girl called Ellie (blonde chick with the gun) is familiar to Daniel. And we know that Ms. Hawkings has not had her first name revealed soooooo...Ellie is his mom. Mogod.

and going off that, couldn't widmore and ellie have got it on and made a child? dun dun dun

or maybe 2...one called Penny and one called Daniel...
Actually, This theory is indisputably correct. Well, the first part. Mrs. Hawking's first name has been revealed, as it was during the "enhanced" version of "The Lie" that got shown immediately before this one. They identify her as Eloise Hawking. So, yeah, I don't know why they dropped the ball and verified this theory. Though I was pretty sure of it, anyway. The way they characterized Mrs. Hawking had her share a lot of mannerisms with Daniel in that last scene of "The Lie." No idea about Widmore being the father, though.

Also... obviously, Locke speaking to Richard right now in 1954 is what leads him to visiting Locke at his birth and then in the early 60's to test him for that school. According to what we saw, Locke failed that test by choosing the knife instead of the compass. Maybe, that sealed Richard's conclusions. The compass wasn't Locke's. Therefore, Richard had to give Locke the compass in the future, which validates everything that Locke told him in 1954.

Yeah, I'm assuming this theory is fact. Also, Faraday's rat was named Eloise.

Oh, and wtf@Jughead? So the American military knows about the Island? Were they actually ON the Island, or did they just happen to fire a nuke at it (which, I assumed the Island froze so the Others could suspend it)?
Well, the US military was on the island. Miles walked over fresh graves, the army knife Ana Lucia finds in season 2, and Richard said the Others killed 18 of them. They could have used the Island for storage, perhaps. I doubt they actually fired Jughead at the Island.

[The Man]

I can't be the only one afraid Penny's going to become a target once they reach LA, can I?

[Moon Rabbits]

I can't be the only one afraid Penny's going to become a target once they reach LA, can I?

Ben is in LA. Ben wants to kill Penny. Penny will be in LA soon.

Yuuuuuup~ I see it coming.

[Flying Mullet]

I can't be the only one afraid Penny's going to become a target once they reach LA, can I?

Ben is in LA. Ben wants to kill Penny. Penny will be in LA soon.

Yuuuuuup~ I see it coming.
And it all magically coincides with February sweeps! :monster:

[PeneloRatsbane]

Not Penny, lovely Penny, if they kill of Penny it would possibly the cruelest Lost death of all

[scrumpleberry]

^ This is true :( I don't want her to die, her and Desmond need to skip off into the sunset and live happily ever after. I think he deserves to escape the lost curse/tragedy stuff more than anyone.

[Del Murder]

Yeah killing off Penny would be smurfed up.

[Flying Mullet]

I just realized that if this show was set a couple of thousand years ago and Penny belonged to a sultan or such, that sultan could say, "A Penny for your thoughts". ;)

[The Man]

My new crackpot theory after reading the thread on westeros.org (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=30608&st=380) is that Widmore has turned the frozen donkey wheel and that's why he left the island. You know it makes sense.

[PeneloRatsbane]

/\ i've been thinking that since seeing the s4 finale,

[Madame Adequate]

My new crackpot theory after reading the thread on westeros.org (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=30608&st=380) is that Widmore has turned the frozen donkey wheel and that's why he left the island. You know it makes sense.

That does actually makes a heck of a lot of sense.

Anyway yeah I'm happy with Lost again, the recovery of Season 4 seems to be continuing, and it's been huge win so far to watch. Jack and Kate continue to be fairly large fail but otherwise Lost :up:

[Del Murder]

Jack and Kate weren't even in the last episode which was a plus.

[LunarWeaver]

I really like this season so far. They're handling it all very well. Just needs more Sayid now.

I don't feel one way or another about Jack, but I actually like Kate :aimblush: I am such a minority. I don't particularly dislike any of them, actually...

[The Man]

I don't really mind Jack or Kate, although I can see why other people do. I do find both of them to be very silly people at times, but that helps keep the show realistic, I think.

[Kirobaito]

My new crackpot theory after reading the thread on westeros.org (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=30608&st=380) is that Widmore has turned the frozen donkey wheel and that's why he left the island. You know it makes sense.
I don't really think it's a question of if, but when and why. I think Widmore woulda gone back to the island a long time ago if he had left any other way. He left in the 80's some time (Someone has said he's been trying to get back to the Island for 20 years). Why did he turn the wheel? I think he feels that Ben usurped his power in some way. Perhaps Widmore was in line to be the next leader of the Others, but Ben got in the way of that. But what crisis would lead him to need to turn the FDW in the mid-80's, before Ben had even joined up completely with the Others? Dharma had already been on the island awhile.

[The Man]

Maybe he had to turn it after Ben killed all of them off so they wouldn't be able to find the island again.

[Levian]

I like Evangeline Lilly.. I mean Kate. :mog:

[Spiffing Cheese]

I really like this season so far. They're handling it all very well. Just needs more Sayid now.

I don't feel one way or another about Jack, but I actually like Kate :aimblush: I am such a minority. I don't particularly dislike any of them, actually...

Yes, Sayid is made of win. Especially when he has his L'oreal - I'm Worth It Too hair. xDD

I like Kate, too. Most of the time. Her character has gone waaay downhill, though, and her bitch-fests to Sawyer are lame. Sawyer is lovely. :(

[Croyles]

Oh snap I knew it!
Real spoiler:
Jin is alive!

[McLovin']

Hey this is something I saw a good connection with. In season 1 Locke and Boone went to the Cargo plane and suddenly Locke couldn't walk. What if at THAT moment was when the time traveling Locke was shot by Ethan so that is why Locke in S1 could not walk. Just a theory.

[The Man]

Ethan would've recognised Locke if it had been at that exact time, since he would've already met him at least once.

Anyway, the last episode was a good one.

[Moon Rabbits]

FINALLY THE FRENCH PEOPLE.

I hope they plan on explaining what exactly they are doing there / why they died / etc. etc. etc. The frenchies have been one of the most intriguing parts of Lost for me ever since Roussau's distress signal in season 1. Also, Jin is alive, yey.

Also, Sun going crazers next episode looks awesome. I like what they're doing with Sun's character so far - I don't know if she's doing good or evil things ... she seems to want to genuinely help Kate, but at the same time I was always thinking she was going to run off with Aaron (at first I though kill but then I remembered that was socially taboo >_>).

WTF@the Ajira airlines bottle? That has something to do with the new Alternate Reality game they launched for this season (Ajira Airlines has a website and stuff) ... but do they have anything to do with Widmore or what? Was it them who was chasing Sawyer and co. on the boat? Whaaaaaaaaat what what.

I want Miles and Charlotte to die already.

Why would Ben tell Kate that he was the one looking to get a blood sample from Aaron? I thought it made sense at first - he was using it as a scare tactic to convince Kate to go back to the island ... but why did he tell her? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of EVERYTHING? I thought it was a much more exciting plot twist when it was Claire's mother doing the investigation (which I'm still not completely sure is untrue).

[Slothy]

Why would Ben tell Kate that he was the one looking to get a blood sample from Aaron? I thought it made sense at first - he was using it as a scare tactic to convince Kate to go back to the island ... but why did he tell her? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of EVERYTHING? I thought it was a much more exciting plot twist when it was Claire's mother doing the investigation (which I'm still not completely sure is untrue).

Honestly, I'm pretty sure the people trying to kidnap everyone are all Ben's doing. He's on a tight deadline so he probably is hedging his bets. Convince the people he can to come back, kidnap the others. It just so happens he can try to get Aaron through semi-legal means without resorting to kidnapping. Doesn't really explain why he'd tell her but he may think that convincing her Sawyer will die if they don't go back is enough.

Don't know if theories really fall under spoiler tag territory, but I figured I'd use them anyway in case people don't want to see theories flying around like crazy.

[Madame Adequate]

I think Ben used that to get Kate to pay attention to Jack and thus to him. I expect he has some other case to make or blackmail to threaten, and just needed to actually get to Kate to make it. After all even if Kate feels the need to bail out with Aaron to keep him, there are hundreds if not thousands of places which would be preferable for her than the Island. If it was just the pressure of losing him she'd be more likely to head to Mexico or something.

[The Man]

I had guessed Sun was the one seeking the blood sample, but that obviously fell through, unless Ben's lying. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he still were.

I'm still not sure whether Aaron is meant to come back to the island or not. The fact that his grandmother is in L.A. is convenient, though.

Looking forward to the next episode.

[Flying Mullet]

WTF@the Ajira airlines bottle? That has something to do with the new Alternate Reality game they launched for this season (Ajira Airlines has a website and stuff) ... but do they have anything to do with Widmore or what? Was it them who was chasing Sawyer and co. on the boat? Whaaaaaaaaat what what.
I'm assuming that this scene was in the future. It looks like the beach camp had been deserted for a while due to all of the empty beer cans and the dilapidated state of the camp. I was hoping Sawyer would check for an expiration date on the water bottle to get a ballpark idea of what time they were in.

I want Miles and Charlotte to die already.
I used to really dislike Miles, but he's grown on me. I loved his snarky/sarcastic one-liners in this episode.

[McLovin']

Noone thought that when Ben said "I'm the client" he looked like he was making it up on the spot in order to manipulate her for some reason?

[Flying Mullet]

So we suspect that Miles is the son of the Dharma doctor showing up in all of the videos, which explains why his nose started bleeding, according to Daniel's theory. So then what is Charlotte's connection to the island? If Faraday is correct, it means that she's spent more time on the island than Miles.

Here's a theory my wife read on another message board today:

I read a theory that the person who is actually trying to get Aaron back and who got the lawyers after Kate is not really Ben. Ben might have just said that to get Kate and Aaron back on the island. It could be Claire's boyfriend. If you remember in season 1 he was an artist and some of the artwork that is in Widmore's office is similar to the artwork that her boyfriend did.

[The Man]

I want Miles and Charlotte to die already.
I used to really dislike Miles, but he's grown on me. I loved his snarky/sarcastic one-liners in this episode.I honestly can't see why people mind either of them. The fact that Charlotte is rather nice to look at helps in her case though.


Noone thought that when Ben said "I'm the client" he looked like he was making it up on the spot in order to manipulate her for some reason?I definitely got the impression that that might be the case; Ben likes to give off the impression that he's in control of everything, and since he's good at improvising, he usually manages to pull it off. That said, it's impossible to tell these days; it could credibly be any of a number of people. Personally I think the most likely suspects are Sun, who would just want to rattle Kate, and Claire's mother, who would have the most obvious reason to do it (her denial could have been a lie).


So we suspect that Miles is the son of the Dharma doctor showing up in all of the videos, which explains why his nose started bleeding, according to Daniel's theory. So then what is Charlotte's connection to the island? If Faraday is correct, it means that she's spent more time on the island than Miles.
Charlotte was apparently born on the island as well; she made some comment about "returning home" either earlier in this season or towards the end of last season.

[PeneloRatsbane]

Charlotte is a tricky one, she definately has a particular connection to the island, but what it is i dunno, she said to Faraday that she was looking for where she was born. I like her tough girl attitude, she says she's fine with a face smeared in blood, she ain't no whiner, just gets on with it, i mean she has a full on fit then treks with the rest and rows like a trooper. but she also has a softer side, she looked so cute when she remembered Daniel, eyes all a light.

AND thank goooooooddddd for Jin, i just knew it, and it was such a cool twist to have Rosseu to find him.

Miles really grew on me in this episode. and i think Faraday is right, cos Charlotte starts with the nose first, then Miles and then Juliet, that seems like the right order.

Sawyer is such a cutie in this episode, i loved his exhasperation after the flash into the storm.

i don't think i'll ever be able to decide between kate/sawyer or jack/kate

[Croyles]

Im a bit more for kate/sawyer than kate/jack, even though i still kinda like jack. I dont find him as annoying as most people here seem to.

[Spiffing Cheese]

i don't think i'll ever be able to decide between kate/sawyer or jack/kate

Kate and Sawyer is clearly where it's at. Jack is such a loser he'd probably cry every time they had sex.

[PeneloRatsbane]

i was always a kate/sawyer, fiercly almost, but then the episode "something nice back home" changed me, and when i re-watched the whole series over i couldn't decide, except for s3 when it was Jack/juliet. I kinda want him to be with her as well. too tricky

[Moon Rabbits]

I am still hoping for it to wind up being Juliet + Sawyer.

[Psychotic]

Personally, I am rooting for Sawyer to punch Ben's bug-eyed head so hard that it explodes, then to bang Juliet and Kate at the same time.

In fact just an episode full of Sawyer punching things would be pretty great.

[LunarWeaver]

Kate should hook up with Sayid if she wants to be satisfied.

[Psychotic]

She should've jumped Michael while she had the chance.

[PeneloRatsbane]

In the first series i kind of liked her (kate) with Sayid a bit, the way they were always up for an adventure or two.
I have mixed feelings about Sawyer and Juliet, on the one hand they seem to have a nice dynamic and they can comfort each other, but on the other she is the only option really, Cos the only other girl around is Charlotte and Faraday has pretty much staked his claim there.
I wouldn't want them to hook up for the sake of hoooking up, and sawyer was talking about Kate in a romantic way to Juliet. i dunno

[Flying Mullet]

Holy crap, this thread deteriorated into a 13 year-old girl's <i>Lost</i> love-fest blog. :barf:

I hope Sawyer comes in here and punches all of you! :p

[scrumpleberry]

In fact just an episode full of Sawyer punching things would be pretty great.

It would be perfect! Also I think Kate and Jack because they annoy me equally atm. Yeah Miles is becoming fairly cool now. He's such an arse, I love him. Charlotte rather nice to look at :lol: good one. No but it's the terrible terrible accent and bad writing that does it for me, I just can't stand her. I don't care for the character at all, I whoop every time she gets a headache or nosebleed.

Fairly obvious, but who thinks black column of smoke that Rosseau talked about ages ago might be time travel shiz happening? And who wants to bet time travel shiz scares her into thinking her crew are sick and killing them?

[PeneloRatsbane]

hmm did become a bit of a love-fest, but it is a big aspect of the show so it was bound to come up eventually.

I disagree, I think Charlotte *IS* hot, just in an unconventional way, which i like even more
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o297/Steffrox/hotrebeccamader.jpg
Grrrrrrooooooooowwwwlllll, but everyone is entitled to there opinion, i personally adore her,
and whats wrong with her accent? thats her normal talking voice, the actress actually sounds like that. she sounds fine to me.
the only thing that i wondered about is that she was born in Essex uk and doesn't speak....well...like someone from essex. I guess she must have picked up the posher accent at oxford or something


yeah i think you are right about Rosseau and her crew, it really was cool to have her and her gang turn up

[Spiffing Cheese]

Hahaha, Kate in the last episode; "I've always been with you, Jack... (except, y'know, when I was boning Sawyer three tents away from you)."

Kate really is made of epic fail, but I love her anyway. That's the only problem with her relationship with Sawyer; that he is far, far too good for her.

lol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEMgnSleD1w)

[Flying Mullet]

lol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEMgnSleD1w)
:love:

[Moon Rabbits]

spoilers ahoy!

Locke is starting to lie to people and Ben is starting to almost seem sincere. The scene in the van when Ben swerves and has his little freak out was awesome. Also - Charlotte grew up on the island? Lol, and then died. So I'm thinking that Dan goes back in time (remember the season premier where he's in the Dharma outfit) and finds Charlotte and tells her never to come back because he knows she dies right there and everything. But she dies anyway!

I really like Jin's character now. I wanted more of the Frenchies. So the monster didn't kill the guys? Did it really infect them or is Danielle just crazy? Why doesn't she remember Jin when she meets him again after the crash?

I'm assuming the Temple that was talked about near the end of season 4 was the monster's little house thinger.

And is it just me, or is Lost getting more graphic when it comes to blood and gore? I know it's always had some, but the ripping off of arms and bones popping out is all pretty rad.

[The Man]

Dan definitely goes back in time, I think the season première made that explicit. It also seems likely that Danielle is just crazy, although I suspect we're probably going to get more exposition about the Frenchies in the future because there are too many questions about them that still haven't been answered. As for why she didn't remember Jin, my guess is that she assumed that he couldn't be the same person as he'd have appeared sixteen years older. Either that or she just figured no one would believe her if she brought it up.

Also, that's probably my favourite episode this season so far. I really like the way Ben basically did everything Locke promised Jin he wouldn't do; I wonder if they prearranged that when they met. Also, poor Charlotte. :(

[Craig]

very weird but good episode. first of all id just like to point out that christian scolded locke for not turning the wheel himself. this basically means that jacon planned for locke to be kicked off the island which is very intriguing, so why did ben do it himself??

and another question, if locke turned the wheel would the flashes still be happening and why does bringing back the oceanic 6 mean saviour?

EDIT: id also like to point out that i dont like desmonds storyline. when faraday speaks to him in the past he only seems to remember it 3 or whatever years in the future. that annoys me. there is no reason for him to suddenly remember faraday's message at that point, other than the fact that the writers want his and the oceanic 6 adventures to be at the same point. and another thing, what was with their reunion? first of all, what are the chances of desmond just so happening to arrive at the same time as ben and sun? ridiculous. i also dont like the way they reacted to eachother. at least jack and sun are old friends with desmonds and no one bothers to freak out or greet eachother, its just a case of "what u doin here? oh, ok. well lets continue as if we bumped into eachother all the time as if its normal.. sorry rant over

[The Man]

The most likely interpretation is that Ben just misinterpreted Jacob. Either that or Ben still has hidden motives that we still don't know about, which is also possible.

Also, I watched the episode a second time and I think it more likely that there really is a sickness. Danielle is still crazy though.

[Craig]

The most likely interpretation is that Ben just misinterpreted Jacob. Either that or Ben still has hidden motives that we still don't know about, which is also possible.

Also, I watched the episode a second time and I think it more likely that there really is a sickness. Danielle is still crazy though.

makes sense. and what do you think of my whole desmond argument? im finding it very irritating

[The Man]

Ben looked pretty shocked when Desmond said "You're looking for Faraday's mother, too?" I think there was just too much stuff going on at once for any of them to register much reaction. Also, it's worth noting that Ben and Desmond had never been depicted as speaking to each other onscreen before, so it's not like they ever had much interaction. As for Desmond not remembering the conversation, I just got the impression that it just didn't make any sense to him at the time and he didn't think about it until he had the dream about it.

[Moon Rabbits]

Ben looked pretty shocked when Desmond said "You're looking for Faraday's mother, too?" I think there was just too much stuff going on at once for any of them to register much reaction. Also, it's worth noting that Ben and Desmond had never been depicted as speaking to each other onscreen before, so it's not like they ever had much interaction. As for Desmond not remembering the conversation, I just got the impression that it just didn't make any sense to him at the time and he didn't think about it until he had the dream about it.

*I* got the impression that Faraday actually changed time, which is why Desmond only remembered in that instant.

edit: Also, wtf@Charlotte speaking in tongues and etc.

[The Man]

Well yeah, Faraday obviously changed time. Then again the fact that Desmond wasn't on the island at the instant in Faraday's consciousness when he did so might have to do with why he had no recollection at the time of it - I see what you're getting at there.

And Charlotte had come unstuck in time, ergo why a lot of what she said didn't make sense.

[Madame Adequate]

I has a theory.

They are completely wrong about the fact that they can't change time. I can bring to mind several instances where the ability to change fits more than the idea that they can't. Rousseau didn't remember Jin because she never met him. Desmond didn't remember meeting Faraday because he hadn't. etc. Some things did seem to have already happened though, such as Locke meeting Alpert.

[sdm42393]

Am I the only one who's happy that Charlotte "died?"

[Kirobaito]

I has a theory.

They are completely wrong about the fact that they can't change time. I can bring to mind several instances where the ability to change fits more than the idea that they can't. Rousseau didn't remember Jin because she never met him. Desmond didn't remember meeting Faraday because he hadn't. etc. Some things did seem to have already happened though, such as Locke meeting Alpert.
Neither of your instances apply, though. 1) Dan acknowledged that Desmond COULD change time because his consciousness had shown the ability to exist in two different times - he was "special." 2) Jin and Rousseau were rarely, if ever, in the same scene together, and never spoke - the closest would be the season 3 finale when they were choosing shooters to blow up the dynamite. She's also messed up in the head, though.

[Moon Rabbits]

And Charlotte had come unstuck in time, ergo why a lot of what she said didn't make sense.

I was thinking that. I couldn't tell if she was making some crazers prophecy when she told Jin not to let Sun come back or not. "This place is death" seemed a little dramatic o_o

[PeneloRatsbane]

most of the stuff she said seemed like stuff she remembered from her past, except, well as far as we are aware "what would mum think of me marrying an American" that seemed like it was her own thoughts about Faraday.
It was so sad when she died, her last words were "im not allowed to eat chocolate before dinner" just so sad, i bet she would have had so much more to say if she could have :( :'(

Desmond yay!!! i love him so much, and Christian wtf, this episode was absolutely epic. just the dead Charlotte thats bumming me out

also enjoyed the love look on Jack's face when he saw Desmond, he's back for some more sugar lol

[Loony BoB]

Why are we marking spoilers when this whole thread is effectively a spoiler? With this in mind I'm renaming the thread after this post. :p Going forward, only mark spoilers if they are about future episodes rather than ones that have already aired in America.

Regarding why Ben turned the wheel himself: He's just all "me me me" and wants to be Jacob's buddy buddy and do all the cool stuff or... something. Alternatively, Ben was supposed to do it then, and Jacob knew fully well that John was to do it the second time.

Regarding Charlotte's accent: It doesn't matter where she's born, it matters where she grows up and her parents' accents. But more importantly, it matters that this is something made for Americans and they wouldn't know a London accent from a Geordie accent. 'sall English to them!

I found it interesting that they could just walk down into the monster's lair and come out 'okay', although I do wonder just how okay they were. They didn't seem sick so much as they seemed to have changed in attitude, like they were wanting to kill her or capture her for some reason. Others? I mean, remember there were a lot of Losties that were snapped up by the Others and are now happily living with them and seemingly okay with locking them up etc. Alternatively, it's possible that they wanted to get her to the island in the first place. I'm almost positive it's something to do with Alex though, rather than Danielle.

Jin's back. This is all that I need to keep me happy. I :<3: Jin.

[PeneloRatsbane]

yeah ur right, it just would have been funny to have her with an essex accent. lol, but i grew fond of listening to her accent, just a shame we never got to see her crack out some Klingon, that amused me

[Miriel]

I have never heard "Korean" butchered so badly as when Charlotte was speaking it. Korean is in quotes because if it hadn't been made explicitly clear that she was speaking Korean, I NEVER would have thought that that was the language she was speaking. Or attempting (and failing) to speak. It didn't sound like any language that I know.

I still have no idea what she was saying to Jin in Korean before she died. I assume she just repeated what she said in English, but I honestly have no clue. I watched it over a few times and I just can't decipher it.

Sun on the other hand, omg so cute when she was talking to her daughter! Interesting how they translated it though. It was a ton more affectionate in Korean than the English translation of the conversation.

Really happy Charlotte is dead. What a dumb character and a waste of screen time. Everything else on the show is slightly irritating. Blah blah, back to the island! Blah blah, JACOB SAYS THIS! Blah blah blah.

[PeneloRatsbane]

god i dunno wots wrong with me, its been a week and i'm still feeling sad that they killed of Charlotte, i NEVER care usually so much about tv shows, but i dunno its gotten under my skin. weirding me out. 0_o'''''
probably covering an under lying issue but man to i miss that character

[Del Murder]

If you're this upset about Charlotte I wonder how you reacted when they killed Charlie. Or Eco. Or that guy who knew about explosives. Or a tree.

[scrumpleberry]

Oh mr. Eko >: ( he hasn't been in nearly as many visions and hallucinations as he deserves.

[PeneloRatsbane]

i wasn't that bothered, i was bummed obviously, but they had centric episodes and Eko's death was well dramatic and he was a naughty boy. Charlie's death was epic, he died being a hero it showed his character growth, he also had the awesome wrapping up episode with the "greatest hits list"
Charlotte died in a flurry of agony and madness, with her back story explored in a rambling, without getting to be with Faraday properly and leaving him, they had a great dynamic, she protected him and now he's all alone. I just felt sad that her live ended after being sheltered by her w<b><u>ei</u></b>rdo mum and commiting to her job (implied) felt like a sad waste to a bright character. I know u probably disagree but thats just how i saw it. just felt bummed, I guess i felt connection to the character

LOL tho ur right i'm being overly sensitive, but i'm a girl, hormones and all that crap lol, not that girls can't control themselves, ergh watever i just feel sad, dumb i know

[Moon Rabbits]

I found it interesting that they could just walk down into the monster's lair and come out 'okay', although I do wonder just how okay they were. They didn't seem sick so much as they seemed to have changed in attitude, like they were wanting to kill her or capture her for some reason. Others? I mean, remember there were a lot of Losties that were snapped up by the Others and are now happily living with them and seemingly okay with locking them up etc. Alternatively, it's possible that they wanted to get her to the island in the first place. I'm almost positive it's something to do with Alex though, rather than Danielle.


Danielle's crew being infected reminded me of JENOVA and the Cetra because sometimes I am that lame. Anyway, what interests me is why her ex-lover tried to kill her if he was working for the Others. I mean, Danielle is pregnant with babeh, and the Others can't get preggo on the Island because it kills them - so if ex-lover-frenchman was swayed by the monster to be part of the Others, you'd think he wouldn't try and blow Danielle's face clean off. HOWEVER, I've always sort of thought that maybe the Others aren't always working in the best interest of the Island - imho, the Island itself is what is killing of the pregnant women.

[Del Murder]

Smokey makes you hallucinate. Remember Eko. So conceivably her lover could have been hallucinating and think she was the monster. They probably all went crazy.

Somkey is probably independent from the Others in that he has his own agenda. Still waiting for the smoke monster flashback episode.

[scrumpleberry]

Still waiting for the smoke monster flashback episode.

This would be so wonderful.

[Del Murder]

Smoke monster and Ben are my two favorite characters on Lost right now.

[Moon Rabbits]

Ooooooooooooh I've been doing spoiler huntings. The following is ALLLLLLLL spoilers for upcoming episodes (nothing big, really, just episode synopses and some casting calls, etc. read at own risk!!):


316:
So, it looks like everyone at the Church is going back to the island this episode. Neat. Jin is traveling around time wearing a Dharma jumpsuit (see LaFleur).
Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham:
Tells all about Locke's death. Apparently Matthew Abbadon and Locke go to a graveyard to have a chat, with Locke in a wheelchair, but when they are going to leave Abbadon gets shot :o
LaFleur:
This episode is apparently about the survivors currently on the Island (ie. Jin + Sawyer + Juliet etc.) going back in time to right some epic wrong in the past (like 1970s Dharma past). I was looking at episode stills, and it shows Sawyer in an Dharma outfit with the name "LaFleur" on it. Juliet is attending to a pregnant woman (possibly "Amy," who a casting call was put out for. 35 - 40 year old woman, complicated love life, but other than that very level headed etc. etc. Apparently she will be appearing in at least four episodes). Horace Goodspeed will also be returning this episode. Supposedly, this was to air before the L&DoJB episode.

[The Man]

Well that episode was pretty weird. I'm sure we'll get a lot more exposition next episode; I want it now :S

Crackpot theory alert, coming from the lostpedia boards (http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?p=1286520#post1286520).
Jack is Jacob? Of course. Here’s some (circumstantial) evidence, broken down by category, and in no particular order:<br /><br />Character analysis: Jack is wiley and is playing Ben for a fool. Jack of the kidney sac bait-n-switch. Jack of the “I know the Others are coming, but I’m not going to tell you until I have a plan.” Jack of the “Ben, you’re my ally – until Locke gets here.”<br /><br />Character and story analysis: Jacob almost surely is someone we know. If Jacob is just Jacob, why introduce a new and important character more than 75 percent of the way through your story? Because you don’t. We’ve already been introduced to Jacob. He was the first person we ever saw. <br /><br />Character and story analysis: The man of science and the man of faith must come together to save the island. (They’re the yin and yang, after all). Think about it ... Jack and Locke have a contentious relationship. Locke has pleaded for Jack’s help throughout the series. “Jack don’t do this.” “Jack, you’re not supposed to do this.” And so forth. Isn’t it time for Jack to ask for Locke’s help? Oh wait, he already did, when he was a time-leaping phantom named Jacob (trapped in a time-shifting cabin no less).<br /><br />Symbolic: Jack is the son of Christian Shepherd (a Christian shepherd?), which might suggest that he's a messianic figure. Perhaps at the end of the series Jack seemingly sacrifices his life to save his friends (and the island and the world).<br /><br />Symbolic: As a messianic and mythic figure, Jack must sacrifice himself and be reborn. Once Jacob can leave the cabin, who wants to bet that an older, exhausted Jack steps out the door? Sort of like another character whose name begins with a “J” stepped out of a tomb after he was dead.<br /><br />Suggestive: If you needed help, who would you enlist? Family, right? Who has Jacob enlisted? Christian and Claire Shepherd. Jack's father and half-sister. Ben even says, at one point, "What wouldn’t a father do for his son?" Why wouldn’t Christian help his time-leaping, trapped, foolish son?<br /><br />Suggestive: What does Christian Shepherd hand to Jack in the webisode “The Watch.” A watch. Hmmm, time references?<br /><br />Suggestive: Jacob’s eye is brown.<br /><br /> <img src="http://ncjl.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/jacob-02.png" alt="" border="0"><br /><br />Jack’s eyes? Brown. <br /><br /><img src="http://photogallery.longlostlist.net/albums/userpics/10007/lost_pilot_a003.jpg" alt="" border="0"><br /><br />Suggestive: Jack is not on Jacob’s list. We don’t know what the list is, per se. But why put yourself on your own list?<br /><br />Suggestive: Room 23 indoctrination. "Only fools are enslaved by time and space." Suggests that someone is enslaved by time and space. Most likely character? Jacob. And who has been our biggest “fool” (in that he’s tried to fix things, but has only made things worse, time and again)? Jack.<br /><br />Suggestive: Jack’s tattoo. Translation, “he who walks among us, but is not one of us." What’s the one character that is among all others on the Island, but does not commune with anyone? Jacob. <br /><br />Suggestive: Tattoo artist’s insight into Jack. She can peer into your soul and tell you your true identity (there's a clue there – why is she discerning Jack's "true identity" in the first place?). She refers to Jack as "a great man, a leader." Now, how does Mikhail describe his "leader" to John? He calls him a "magnificent man". Or better, there’s Ben. How does Ben describe Jacob? "The man in charge—he's a great man, John, a brilliant man." <br /><br />Suggestive: Jack’s books in his office (from “A Tale of Two Cities”): Fire in the Mind: Faith and the Search for Order, Pale Horse Coming, Redemption, Valhalla Rising (in which Dirk Pitt discovers he has twin 23-year-old children raised by another – a love who he assumed was dead – if those aren't Lost themes, what are?), No Place Like Home (a Mary Higgins Clark title that plays off “The Wizard of Oz”), and my favorite Prisoner of Azkaban (in which the vile and terrifying Sirius Black turns out to be the heroic godparent of Harry Potter, imprisoned by the forces of evil, eventually freed to help battle the forces of evil – Sounds like Jacob could be Sirius Black.)I'm sold. Note also that Matthew Fox is apparently the only cast member who knows the ending to the series. If true, this would explain why.

Of course it could all be one gigantic red herring as well, wouldn't be the first time that's happened in this series :monster: What really sells me on this, though, is the fact that it would fit Jack's character arc perfectly - from being completely sceptical about anything supernatural relating to the Island, to becoming the main apparently supernatural force directing events on the Island. I can't realistically imagine it being anyone else now.

[Del Murder]

That episode was weird and I didn't like it. The process to get these people back to the island felt rushed. I guess we'll see more of it later, like with the next episode being about Locke's part.

Interesting theory about Jack that The Man posted. Sounds believable.

This show has gone on such a tangent from its original premise and style. :o

[Moon Rabbits]

I really liked 316. I would like to be the first to put forward that the random Indian man who talked to Jack in line / was the only one in the private section of the plane aside from the police woman is going to appear later in the series. In fact, I think he had something to do with the boat and the people who shot at Juliet+Sawyer and co. a few episodes back. Oui et non?

Ajira Airlines seem awfully suspicious. The stewardesses all seemed to know Ben.

The Man's theory seems very very very plausible. Actually, I am going to assume it is true until proven otherwise.

My favorite part was Ben calling Jack, what with the being covered in blood and all. I knew immediately when he said he "was going to do a favor for a friend" that he was off to kill someone (or someones). I am waiting for the episode that explains how everyone (other than Sun and Jack) were convinced to return to the Island. Ben had some part to play in that, I'm sure.

[Del Murder]

Yeah, I can't wait for the Ben episode when he goes all hardcore on the rest of the Oceanic 6. You know it's coming.

[The Man]

I'm pretty sure Ben paid a visit to Desmond and Penny. What occurred is, of course, only a matter of conjecture at this point, but I strongly suspect that it's going to provide an incentive for him to return to the island.

[Psychotic]

That episode was weird and I didn't like it. The process to get these people back to the island felt rushed.Yeah, I agree with it feeling rushed.

I was reading on Lostpedia that they think the woman with a badge who was with Sayid was supposed to be recreating Edward Mars's role. More like Ana Twocia amirite or amirite. (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Image:5x06_Ilanna.jpg)

[The Man]

Yeah I thought that was pretty obvious as soon as I saw her. No idea what the dude who talked to Jack's deal is though, but I strongly suspect we'll be seeing him again.

[Moon Rabbits]

Yeah I thought that was pretty obvious as soon as I saw her. No idea what the dude who talked to Jack's deal is though, but I strongly suspect we'll be seeing him again.

No, I'm positive he'll be in later episodes. Why else would he talk to Jack, and then be the only person in the part of the plane that Hurley bought out? He was emphasized for a reason. He's also Indian, and I definitely think Ajira Airlines is just a front for some other organization (remember the Ajira Airlines waterbottle?) ... everyone involved seemed to know something was up. I think Ben sneaked Aaron on board somehow, too. I mean, everything had to be the same, didn't it? They all had to go back. Is Aaron an exception because he wasn't born at the time? I don't think so.

Frank Lapidus' "we're not going to Guam, are we?" killed me. It was hilarious <3.

It also seems very plausible that Ben went to see Des and Penny, like the Man said; iirc he called Jack from a payphone on a dock - Penny and Desmond live on a houseboat :o

Was anyone else weirded out about Eloise actually explaining something? I mean, this show has been on for 4 years and that was the first time that they actually flat out EXPLAINED something. I agree with Del Murder's comment about the premise and style - the pacing of the show has totally changed. I like it, but it feels like a totally different show now.

[The Man]

No, I'm positive he'll be in later episodes. Why else would he talk to Jack, and then be the only person in the part of the plane that Hurley bought out? He was emphasized for a reason.Yeah hence my strong suspicions.

As for Ajira being front to something else, possible. Actually I'm going to class it as likely given that their people were apparently shooting at the Lostaways a few episodes ago.

re: explanations, I wouldn't say this is the first time that's happened, but this season has definitely had a lot more of that than previous years.

[Miriel]

God I can't believe how dumb this show has gotten. Having the characters themselves talk about how ridiculous it all is just makes it worse. It's like a indirect plea to the audience to bear with them even though everyone acknowledges how dumb it all sounds.

Poop I say. POOP.

And I'm just wondering, did we ever find out why Desmond was pushing buttons?

[scrumpleberry]

Uh, to disperse the freaky electromagnetism I think. But that wasn't really explained it just kind of happened.

[Madame Adequate]

Yeah it was that electromagnetism buggery. Not that it actually seemed to do very much when he stopped, aside from be a beacon to Penny.

Did the Island just teleport everyone off the plane then? No crash, no wreckage, just the blinding light and then there they are.

Also I had presumed that Hurley had bought the seats up to save the lives of other people - but only First Class was actually bought out (Mostly). Did he have some other motivation in doing this?

Lapetus is still awesome and still one of the best reasons to watch the show so I am megaglad he's back.

[The Man]

The button-pushing was helping to protect the island from outsiders' prying eyes. That was the most important factor of it, I think. That said, had Desmond not turned the key after everything went haywire it probably would've been a lot more disastrous.

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

Did the Island just teleport everyone off the plane then? No crash, no wreckage, just the blinding light and then there they are.



yeah i just assumed that they needed to be within the 'radius'!

[The Man]

I suspect that only a select few people actually saw the white light. It would be one of the typical bastard twists of fate if Sun and Jin turned out to be separated by a period of fifteen years or whatever.

[PeneloRatsbane]

i liked this weeks episode but it wasn't as great as the first 5. it seemed a little cold to me, but some interesting questions arose;
Who built/created the Lamp Post? Eloise said it was a clever man
Who are those two mildly annoying new characters (are they Ilana and Ceaser?)
WTF happened with Aaron?
Was its Desmond that beat the shiz out of Ben?
Where are Sun, Ben, Sayid and possibly Frank (yay he's back)?
And whats with the Guitar Hurley? did Charie tell him to bring it?

[McLovin']

Obviously they are gonna come back to this episode to tell us what happened to Kate, Sayid, Hurley and Ben.

They showed Jack's grandpa, which is really strange since its yet another Shepherd! And he sat in that rocking chair almost like a certain Jacob.

[Flying Mullet]

Do we know his grandfather is a Shepherd?

[Del Murder]

Why would he have Christian's shoes if he wasn't?

[Flying Mullet]

Because I forgot that when I made my post. :p

[The Man]

There's actually a crackpot "Jack's grandfather is Jacob" theory too, but I don't buy that one.

As far as Ben being beaten up, yep, almost certainly Desmond, and I think it's pretty much a given that Charlie told Hurley to bring the guitar as well. As far as the others, for all we know they may be in a completely different time period, :monster:.

[McLovin']

Wouldn't it be cool if Locke arrives in like 2004 and has to kidnap Anthony Cooper to send him to the island? Ben: "You brought him here."

[Moon Rabbits]

Wouldn't it be cool if Locke arrives in like 2004 and has to kidnap Anthony Cooper to send him to the island? Ben: "You brought him here."

That would actually be a very satisfying explanation for "the Magic Box."



Who built/created the Lamp Post? Eloise said it was a clever man

I assume it was Alvar Hanso or Widmore she was talking about here. Hanso's descendants existed on the Island (the Black Rock); it's obvious why Widmore would be looking.

[Flying Mullet]

Wouldn't it be cool if Locke arrives in like 2004 and has to kidnap Anthony Cooper to send him to the island? Ben: "You brought him here."

That would actually be a very satisfying explanation for "the Magic Box."
I love it! :D

[sdm42393]

Well, I can't say I was surprised that Ben killed Locke.

[Moon Rabbits]

Well, I can't say I was surprised that Ben killed Locke.

Is that what happened there? My satellite of course cut out just after Ben convinced Locke not to kill himself and when it came back it was showing the scene with Ben cleaning down the apartment.

[sdm42393]

^ Mhm. He chocked him with the cord.

[The Man]

Good episode. Answered a lot of questions while introducing a number of new ones.

[Kirobaito]

When Ben first entered the apartment, I was like "Ben will kill him." Then when Ben convinced him not to, I was like "why would he do all this if he was going to kill him?" But as soon as Locke started talking about Hawking, I knew that Ben had gotten the information he wanted.

So, is Widmore now a good guy? Good gosh.

[The Man]

I don't trust either of them; I'm thoroughly convinced that both of them care more about their own power than they do about the island, and that either of them will do whatever it takes to further their own ends, regardless of the consequences. I'd been leaning that way for awhile anyway, but this episode solidified it for me.

Basically, Jacob/Christian wouldn't have told them to move the island if Widmore weren't a threat to it. At least, I can't think of any conceivable reason why they'd do that.

[Del Murder]

Yeah I'm sure Ben and Widmore are both evil, just evil against each other as well.

This episode was meh. It answered some things but I don't like when there isn't a lot of action on the island.

[McLovin']

What building was Ceasar in at the beginning? If they are on the island I don't remember there being a place with a desk oO

[Moon Rabbits]

What building was Ceasar in at the beginning? If they are on the island I don't remember there being a place with a desk oO

Everything had the Hydra symbol on it - I'm assuming they are on the Hydra island.

[Flying Mullet]

I've grown tired of the "Ben double crossed someone!" plot line. When he strangled Locke last night I groaned.

I'm in agreement with others in that I've come to the conclusion that Whitmore and Ben are both evil and using everyone and the island for their own selfish means. Perhaps this is why the island reached out to Locke, as he's pure and truly cares for the island above his own interests, even his life. Plus the island hooked him up with a new pair of legs so he probably feels he owes the island now.

[McLovin']

Btw, since the plane landed on Hydra Island it would be safe to assume that it landed on that runway that they were building in season 3!!!

[The Man]

Regarding why Ben killed Locke, I have a number of conflicting ideas. First of all it's quite likely that he knew Locke would actually try to fulfil his promise to Jin not to bring Sun back if he remained alive. Secondly, after watching the scene twice, it looks like he has no idea how to get back to the island until Locke tells him. One possibility is that Hawking is actually being employed by Widmore to help the O6 get back to the island, with no idea that Ben is supposed to be kept away from it. However, the real change in his mood seems to come when he learns that Jin is still alive. It is possible that these two tidbits of information combine to cause him to decide to kill John, although I am still uncertain as to why this would be.

I don't think he expected Locke to be resurrected, however.

As for Widmore's claim to have protected the island "in a non-violent way", that's obviously bull:skull::skull::skull::skull: given his order to chop off Juliet's hands. I wouldn't trust anything either Ben or Widmore says; both of them are pretty clearly more interested in their own power than in telling the truth.

The labyrinthine twists and turns of this show really are coming to match those of the Illuminatus! trilogy, an acknowledged influence on the series. It's also where the number 23 comes from, although the creators haven't explicitly acknowledged that part yet.

[Kirobaito]

We also must remember, from "The Shape of Things to Come," that Widmore says very matter-of-factly, "That Island's mine, Benjamin... It will be again." It's plain to me now that Widmore has no intention of letting Locke lead anything.

[The Man]

Good call; I had forgotten about that

[Moon Rabbits]

Btw, since the plane landed on Hydra Island it would be safe to assume that it landed on that runway that they were building in season 3!!!

I wish! That would be a good way to explain away that loose end. But no, the plane is visible just chillin' on top of a tree bough in one scene of the last episode. I'm still pretty damned sure that runway is for aliens . . . aliens like Mrs. Hawking (dun dun dun).


Regarding why Ben killed Locke, I have a number of conflicting ideas. First of all it's quite likely that he knew Locke would actually try to fulfil his promise to Jin not to bring Sun back if he remained alive. Secondly, after watching the scene twice, it looks like he has no idea how to get back to the island until Locke tells him. One possibility is that Hawking is actually being employed by Widmore to help the O6 get back to the island, with no idea that Ben is supposed to be kept away from it. However, the real change in his mood seems to come when he learns that Jin is still alive. It is possible that these two tidbits of information combine to cause him to decide to kill John, although I am still uncertain as to why this would be.


Yeah, I don't think Ben was planning on killing John. I think he realized he had to after John was all "no man Sun is just staying here."

Locke's mention of Mrs. Hawking also had something to do with Ben's motivation.

So I don't think he went to John with the explicit intention of killing him - after he does, he's pretty remorseful ("I'll miss you John, I really will.").

[Flying Mullet]

My wife read a theory somewhere that Kate is pregnant with Jack's baby, thus recreating Claire's pregnancy on the flight. Since Kate and Jack "landed" on the island in the 70s, the theory suggests that Kate has the baby while in that time and we know/knew the baby as an adult "Other" in the present time.

[The Man]

Not a bad theory; I could see it being true.

[Moon Rabbits]

My wife read a theory somewhere that Kate is pregnant with Jack's baby, thus recreating Claire's pregnancy on the flight. Since Kate and Jack "landed" on the island in the 70s, the theory suggests that Kate has the baby while in that time and we know/knew the baby as an adult "Other" in the present time.

Richard Alpert?

[Flying Mullet]

I think Richard is some immortal manifestation of the island, as he's appeared the same age from the 1950's through present time, but you never know.

[The Man]

More interesting theories from the asoiaf board

I'm thinking Faraday is going to warn young Ben about the island and it's properties - probably something to do with warning him that should some things happen at the island (like a nuclear explosion) there would be a rip in the space/time continuum that would, as Hawking said, kill us all. Probably Jughead has something to do with the hatch, and probably Desmond hitting the failsafe kept it from going happening.

Maybe the island should normally be able to move through space/time (or normally just space?) using the wheel, but because the O6 had left, it now has some kind of constant problem that will hopefully be restored shortly after the return of the O6 to the island, although possibly the wheel has to be turned yet another time - maybe by Widmore?

Who knows? Because of the Locke/Bentham dichotomy we got last week, I have to think that both Ben and Widmore are both aiming at some greater good, and think that the good that they are trying to create justifies the means they are using, since Bentham is famous for inventing Utilitarianism. This approach has it's advantages, but often the people acting this way lose site of the good that they were aiming at, and take ever more drastic steps ever more removed from that goal, and eventually see keeping themselves in control as the most important thing. I have no idea what they're after - maybe Widmore wants to use the island-as-time-machine to try and improve the state of humanity, and Ben - as told by Faraday - understands that this would destroy the world? I really couldn't say. I do think, though, that they are clearly after something more than their own control of the island, something that justifies everything they've done.

Locke, OTOH, is named after John Locke, a natural law theorist - people who never see the ends as justifying the means. The advantage is that these people hardly ever become immoral in their means in their quest toward the greater good, but often sacrifice the chance to ever reach that end because of their inability or unwillingness to use whatever means necessary. Locke's just too much of a good person to understand who's playing him, and why, and what to do about it. He's very easily manipulated. I don't think it's a writing flaw, I think it must be intentional.

I have no idea where this is ultimately going, but it looks like they're setting up a big thematic paradox/moral dilemma for the next season, and I would guess that Locke is still the sacrifice. And that Ben and Widmore will destroy each other. And that the Island will get what it needs (that is, Jack, to be Jacob) in the end.

Also, I now think the cave people really might be Rose and Bernard.

[Moon Rabbits]

I think Richard is some immortal manifestation of the island, as he's appeared the same age from the 1950's through present time, but you never know.

Yeah, that's what I think too ... although, by KatexJack+Baby theory I think it could be him. He could be hoppin around through time n' all.

[McLovin']

The reason Richard is ageless seems pretty obvious. I mean he probably can't age in a time where he hasn't been born so he can't age till he catches up with his real timeline.

[The Man]

Either that or he's just undead like Christian and now Locke are.

[Kirobaito]

OK, seriously:

Where the hell are Rose and Bernard?

[The Man]

smurf knows. My crackpot theory is that they're the people who become Adam and Eve, which, if true, probably means that it'll be awhile until we know for certain.

Two weeks until the next episode. FFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[Flying Mullet]

After seeing the statue and rewinding and pausing to get a closer look, my wife and I decided that it looked like an Egyptian god from the back. Now I'm wondering if the island "lived" in the Mediterranean during ancient Egyptian times and was moved at some point. When the Oceanic 6 watched it "move", it looked like it sank, and this could be the show's explanation of where the Atlantis legend comes form.

[Kirobaito]

After seeing the statue and rewinding and pausing to get a closer look, my wife and I decided that it looked like an Egyptian god from the back. Now I'm wondering if the island "lived" in the Mediterranean during ancient Egyptian times and was moved at some point. When the Oceanic 6 watched it "move", it looked like it sank, and this could be the show's explanation of where the Atlantis legend comes form.
Definitely an Egyptian God. It was just one of the many Egyptian symbols that we got from this episode (and others). The statue is holding ankhs in each hand, and Paul had the ankh, as well. We also have the prominence of Horace (Horus). Remember the timer in the hatch went to hieroglyphics after it hit 0 in Season 2.

[Moon Rabbits]

After seeing the statue and rewinding and pausing to get a closer look, my wife and I decided that it looked like an Egyptian god from the back. Now I'm wondering if the island "lived" in the Mediterranean during ancient Egyptian times and was moved at some point. When the Oceanic 6 watched it "move", it looked like it sank, and this could be the show's explanation of where the Atlantis legend comes form.
Definitely an Egyptian God. It was just one of the many Egyptian symbols that we got from this episode (and others). The statue is holding ankhs in each hand, and Paul had the ankh, as well. We also have the prominence of Horace (Horus). Remember the timer in the hatch went to hieroglyphics after it hit 0 in Season 2.

The temple of the smoke monster was also covered in Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Overall I enjoyed that episode, especially Sawyer and Alpert's interaction. I love how Richard Alpert is totally just running into people all over time who are like "yeaaaaah, so uh I'm from the future."

So the Hostiles and Dharma had a truce? I wonder what actually broke it, if anything, to cause Alpert to seek Ben to cause the Purge.

Also:

SAWYERxJULIET FTW.

edit: Oh, and a baby was born on the Island! Sawyer told Juliet that whatever caused the baby deaths may not have happened yet - maybe it was something that Dharma did that caused the baby dying?

edit again: And Charlotte is alive again! But a child. So obviously Dan is going to threaten her not to return to the Island and fail.

[Flying Mullet]

So obviously Dan is going to threaten her not to return to the Island and fail.
Absolutely. I figured that was a given when she told him that she recognized him as that scary man who told her to stay away from the island as she was dying. Plus the season premier showed Faraday on the island working with Dharma during the 70's, so it wasn't so much "if" as "how".

[McLovin']

What if the baby is Jacob? Jacob is special apparently since he was born but shouldn't have been presumably (Amy was supposed to die?). And Horace is shown building Jacob's cabin...maybe they see that their son is something else and needed to lock him away or something.

[Kirobaito]

What if the baby is Jacob? Jacob is special apparently since he was born but shouldn't have been presumably (Amy was supposed to die?). And Horace is shown building Jacob's cabin...maybe they see that their son is something else and needed to lock him away or something.
Doubtful. In 1954, Locke tells Richard that "Jacob sent me," and that got Richard to listen. Jacob is already known by that time, so unless we have more time travel, Jacob is far older than that little boy.

[Psychotic]

I can't be the only one who was waiting for this conversation to happen:

"We need to go back."
"Back where?"
"Back...to the future!"

[Del Murder]

This show is too weird for me these days. So is everyone from the original crash besides the main cast dead? Where are Rose, Bernard, and Claire?

[The Man]

Rose and Bernard are MIA. Claire was last seen with Christian Shephard, which leads me to suspect that she was simply immune to the time jumps. I'm sure we'll see her again.

Also yeah, the creators are definitely strongly implying that the island has some connection with Egypt. There's even a crackpot theory that the island is actually Atlantis, though I'm not sure I buy that.

[Psychotic]

I read somewhere on these fine inter-connected tubes that the actress who plays Claire (I think her name is Emilie de Ravin? Something like that) didn't sign on to do Season 5 and only has a bit part role, but she will return as a regular for Season 6.

[McLovin']

Yea they said she will be back in season 6.

[scrumpleberry]

KATE YOU WILL RUIN EVERYTHING GTFO ALREADY >(

[Levian]

Everything? Do you mean the 41 minutes Sawyer and Juliet have been dating? :D

they're probably saving her for jack anyway and need someone else to tame sawyer.

[Del Murder]

I bet Kate and Juliet hook up before the show's end.

[The Man]

That's an ending I could get behind

[scrumpleberry]

naw but I mean she's been messing around Jack and Sawyer since the first episode and it's getting tired and boring and she needs to make her goddamn mind up and stop ruining their everything else >(

[PeneloRatsbane]

edit again: And Charlotte is alive again! But a child. So obviously Dan is going to threaten her not to return to the Island and fail.

he was wittering to himself that he wasn't going to do it, he wasn't going to tell her.
but he has gone a bit of the hinges and was shaken up by seeing her again, who knows
he was breaking my heart tho while he was crying in the jungle. I love that he's so broken up about it and they didn't fluke out like they sort of did with Claire/charlie.

I was dreading Sawyer and Juliet, but goddammit, i love it. They are so cute together

[Kirobaito]

edit again: And Charlotte is alive again! But a child. So obviously Dan is going to threaten her not to return to the Island and fail.

he was wittering to himself that he wasn't going to do it, he wasn't going to tell her.
but he has gone a bit of the hinges and was shaken up by seeing her again, who knows
he was breaking my heart tho while he was crying in the jungle. I love that he's so broken up about it and they didn't fluke out like they sort of did with Claire/charlie.

I was dreading Sawyer and Juliet, but goddammit, i love it. They are so cute together
We do know that he'll tell her, because we know that he does. That's the wonders of having a time travel mythos that makes sense. :p

[Del Murder]

Why did it show last week's episode instead of a new one?

[Moon Rabbits]

Why did it show last week's episode instead of a new one?

There won't be a new episode until the following Wednesday.

[sdm42393]

There won't be a new episode until the following Wednesday.

Blasphemy!

[The Man]

I already knew there would be no episode this week, but yeah it sucks.

[McLovin']

little Ben is back :D

[Flying Mullet]

They said there would be a new Lost in two weeks at the end of last week's episode.

That's the problem with Lost, you work so hard on paying attention during the show that you have nothing left after it's over. :p

[Del Murder]

I assumed that since it started in January that there wouldn't be any reruns.

[sdm42393]

How in hell did Ben know there was a boat there?

[The Man]

Ben knows everything.

Awesome episode. I especially liked Sawyer telling Jack off towards the end. That was priceless.

Crackpot theory of the now (again from the asoiaf boards (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=34944&view=findpost&p=1724867)):


Sayid shoots kid Ben.

You heard it here first, people. He has no idea about the "rules." He may think he's saving everyone in the future...but that shot of him with the gun, and him saying "I know now what I have to do..." I think that may have something to do with why Ben goes all...sociopath leader in his future. Also thinking that Jack is going to have to save him (again), but perhaps covertly? Since he is a workman, and all. (:p)Also, I can't have been the only one that saw the smoke monster when Sun and Frank returned to the main island. I'm pretty sure I also heard it right before the turbulence started as well. No idea what either of those signifies, though.

[sdm42393]

Also, I can't have been the only one that saw the smoke monster when Sun and Frank returned to the main island. I'm pretty sure I also heard it right before the turbulence started as well. No idea what either of those signifies, though.

I caught that too...

[Moon Rabbits]

Sayid shoots kid Ben.

You heard it here first, people. He has no idea about the "rules." He may think he's saving everyone in the future...but that shot of him with the gun, and him saying "I know now what I have to do..." I think that may have something to do with why Ben goes all...sociopath leader in his future. Also thinking that Jack is going to have to save him (again), but perhaps covertly? Since he is a workman, and all. (:p)Also, I can't have been the only one that saw the smoke monster when Sun and Frank returned to the main island. I'm pretty sure I also heard it right before the turbulence started as well. No idea what either of those signifies, though.

Yeah, I was thinking that Ben was going to get killed and :bou::bou::bou::bou: was gonna get fucked up ... because I think Sun and Frank are in "present" time on the Island, because the Dharma Initiative symbols were still up all over the barracks. The others took the barracks over after the Purge, so they would have (presumably) taken down the Dharma symbols. So, maybe the future was changed?

Either that, or Hurley tells Horace that Ben is going to kill everyone with the poison gas ... he mentioned it in this episode, didn't he?

Miles is totally Pierre Chang's son.

[*ETERNAL FANTASY*]

Awesome episode. I especially liked Sawyer telling Jack off towards the end. That was priceless.



here here! Sawyer saved their ass and all he got was "what are you gonna do next" or "i got people off the island" line! Jack got schooled lol!

[The Man]

I really doubt the past is actually going to be changed. Sayid won't know that though, which could strongly screw :bou::bou::bou::bou: up :monster:

Anyway yeah, Sun, Frank and the others are definitely in 'present' time. Also, I doubt Ben dies as a result of an encounter with the monster, though he does seem to be in a bad way at the end of The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham. The writers did say they were going to kill off one major character this season though, and I suppose Ben is a possibility. I'd kind of hate it if it were him though; Michael Emerson brings so much to the series.