PDA

View Full Version : The Paradox of Girly Entertainment



Forsaken Lover
06-24-2016, 12:50 PM
So let's start with something everyone on an FF board knows: Final Fantasy X-2. Guys will swear it's a girly game and they can't be seen playing it. Yet, I don't think they included the hot springs scene or designed the Dresspheres for girls. Well...most girls.

Yet this is hardly an isolated incident. There was another popular thing around the time of X-2 I was just reminded of.
-_rMO2ycwUo

A comment with a ridiculous number of likes - something like 500 - on a TS video says "I can never admit to my guy friends I watched this."

But why? Did you see what the girls were wearing? Did you ever see how obviously Clover was intended to be crush material for boys? (mission accomplished for young me,BTW)

It's just really bizarre. I suppose the latest example is something like MLP but I never watched that. But it feels like there are so many of these fictional franchises that are "oozing girliness" yet are clearly also steeped in blatant appeal to boys and men.

Bubba
06-24-2016, 01:00 PM
I suppose this is related but MissH and myself were pushing our ten-month-old son around a discount shop the other day and we picked up a cheap pair of pom-poms and started shaking it in his face. He absolutely loved it and laughed his head off! We bought them obviously but it was only when we got to the counter that it said in big pink letters at the top "For Girls".

Well smurf that, if my boy wants to play with pom poms then he's damn well gonna play with pom poms.

Fynn
06-24-2016, 01:19 PM
Yeah, gendered toys and cartoons are bullshit. Let people watch and play with what they want.

Fox
06-24-2016, 02:03 PM
Follow @LetToysBeToys on Twitter for kindred spirits around the world (although primarily the UK).

The thing that got me over the idea of 'girly' stuff was watching K-On! At first I was like "this is my guilty pleasure". Then I thought about it and realised that feeling guilty about watching an anime I like is the stupidest thing ever. Then I watched Lucky Star and REALLY got over it, and now I am a big fan of many things some would consider 'girly'. Because, as it turns out, girls don't just automatically have trout taste in entertainment just because they're girls!

Pike
06-24-2016, 08:17 PM
this is the same reason why I don't understand why so many guys are so up in arms about a female Thor. Like have you seen her? Super hot super blonde lady who could snap you in two like how do guys not like this.

Fynn
06-24-2016, 08:21 PM
Well, if you wanna approach it from a gender studies standpoint, the ultimate root cause of this is that we are all taught in more or less direct ways that everything feminine is worse and everything girls touch can't be used by boys anymore (like names). So yeah

Skyblade
06-24-2016, 08:45 PM
this is the same reason why I don't understand why so many guys are so up in arms about a female Thor. Like have you seen her? Super hot super blonde lady who could snap you in two like how do guys not like this.

Ok, spin off topic here: The big problem is that it doesn't fit the lore. Thor has always been Thor. It's not a title, it's his name. Other people have carried the hammer before. The get the costume, they get the powers, they do not become Thor.

I advise you to read this reddit post if you are further interested:
https://archive.is/pNCE2

In short: Female Thor runs against the entirety of the Thor comics lore.




That said, I've enjoyed plenty of "girl shows", and never really cared what people thought. The closest thing I have to guilty pleasures are programs or games which I believe are objectively bad, but which I enjoy anyway.

Slothy
06-24-2016, 08:56 PM
Yes, Thor is the Odinson's name, but there's nothing stopping Thor from letting her use his name, particularly when he views himself as both unworthy of the hammer and unworthy of the respect, responsibility, and adulation that comes with it. Which is basically what he did.

There's also the fact that no one knew who the new Thor was so what do you call her? "hey you with the hammer?"

I can see where people are coming from with the name Thor not technically being a title, but it is a name that's come to represent something over time and him letting someone else honour his name by doing the things he no longer can makes total sense to me.

Pike
06-24-2016, 10:32 PM
The big problem is that it doesn't fit the lore.

Yeah, nah, I still don't get it. Comics get revamped and retconned all the time anyway. Like Spidey has had how many origin stories now? I'm huge into the lore aspects of several fandoms (Warcraft, TES, Dragon Age, Star Trek to name a few) and stuff gets retconned all the time and you live with it. I think comics probably retcon a lot more than most. No idea why people still get mad about it. Retcons come with the territory.

That's all super offtopic though, haha. So I'll shut up now :)

MLP is funny because even though it's very "girly", all the ponies fit anime "waifu" sterotypes. The athletic one, the smart one, the shy one, etc. I think that's part of why it attracts a lot of guys. I say this as someone who likes MLP (even though I haven't watched it in years.)

Ayen
06-24-2016, 11:06 PM
It makes sense for media to do this since they're trying to cater to as many people as possible. If you can get all genders watching your show, then that's just a bigger overall audience you can reach, and therefore more profit.

As for the rest, yes, as boys we're basically taught that all things feminine are bad and if you like girly things you need to hand in your man card. This is dumb as there's more to being a man (and a woman, and any gender period) than what kind of media you consume. If my masculinity is only defined by something so trivial then here:

http://i.imgur.com/e8G5XeJ.jpg

Take it. It wasn't that good to begin with.

Fox
06-24-2016, 11:33 PM
It makes sense for media to do this since they're trying to cater to as many people as possible. If you can get all genders watching your show, then that's just a bigger overall audience you can reach, and therefore more profit.

As for the rest, yes, as boys we're basically taught that all things feminine are bad and if you like girly things you need to hand in your man card. This is dumb as there's more to being a man (and a woman, and any gender period) than what kind of media you consume. If my masculinity is only defined by something so trivial then here:

http://i.imgur.com/e8G5XeJ.jpg

Take it. It wasn't that good to begin with.

Honestly they never issued me one in the first place because I... I...

I CAN'T GROW A MOUSTACHE THERE I SAID IT :cry:

Skyblade
06-24-2016, 11:46 PM
It makes sense for media to do this since they're trying to cater to as many people as possible. If you can get all genders watching your show, then that's just a bigger overall audience you can reach, and therefore more profit.

As for the rest, yes, as boys we're basically taught that all things feminine are bad and if you like girly things you need to hand in your man card. This is dumb as there's more to being a man (and a woman, and any gender period) than what kind of media you consume. If my masculinity is only defined by something so trivial then here:

http://i.imgur.com/e8G5XeJ.jpg

Take it. It wasn't that good to begin with.

Honestly they never issued me one in the first place because I... I...

I CAN'T GROW A MOUSTACHE THERE I SAID IT :cry:

I'm the full-beard + mustache type, myself. Would prefer to go clean shaven to just a 'stache.

Wow, we cannot keep this thread on topic.

Forsaken Lover
06-25-2016, 06:46 AM
As someone who grew up with pro wrestling, I think I'm in a weird position about my man card. I mean, what can be more manly than big, beefy, sweaty man grappling each other?

No seriously, this is "okay." Contrast with someone like Shawn Michaels who was pretty girly-looking as far as pro wrestlers go and frequently danced pretty flamboyantly. That was part of his thing.

It's all very weird.

And I know Totally Spies was good, Pumpkin.

Fynn
06-25-2016, 07:03 AM
It makes sense for media to do this since they're trying to cater to as many people as possible. If you can get all genders watching your show, then that's just a bigger overall audience you can reach, and therefore more profit.

As for the rest, yes, as boys we're basically taught that all things feminine are bad and if you like girly things you need to hand in your man card. This is dumb as there's more to being a man (and a woman, and any gender period) than what kind of media you consume. If my masculinity is only defined by something so trivial then here:

http://i.imgur.com/e8G5XeJ.jpg

Take it. It wasn't that good to begin with.

Honestly they never issued me one in the first place because I... I...

I CAN'T GROW A MOUSTACHE THERE I SAID IT :cry:

I thought I couldn't either, but look! Here I am with a mustache and beard! Anything is possible! Follow your dreams!

Mirage
06-28-2016, 03:40 PM
Who should I sue for not giving me my man card?

Ayen
06-28-2016, 05:04 PM
Who should I sue for not giving me my man card?

Harrison Ford, naturally.

Pumpkin
06-28-2016, 07:05 PM
People should watch/play/read what they want and other people should get over it.

And that's my contribution for today, thank you for coming

Shauna
06-28-2016, 07:06 PM
Part of the problem is referring to things as "girly" probably

sharkythesharkdogg
06-29-2016, 03:52 PM
I never watch girly shows. I find men who do to be truly, truly outrageous.

DMKA
06-30-2016, 01:31 AM
I've been a huge Sailor Moon fan for the bigger half of my life, and I never really felt the least bit emasculated or ashamed by it, even though it clearly is a franchise with a young female audience in mind. Actually I find that when it comes to anime I've always been way more interested in the "LOVE AND FRIENDS AND MAGIC AND PRETTY AND SPARKLES" stuff for girls than the stuff intended for boys. The same applies for Disney movies. Nearly all my favorites are singing princess films.

I think the primary reason for your aforementioned "paradox" is the fact that Totally Spies and many of these other girly franchises are created and controlled by men. It's kind of the same as when you're watch a show aimed squarely at young kids and then suddenly there's some joke or reference that no one under the age of 30 would possibly get. Partly because they want to throw a bone to those outside their main audience, and partly because they're adults and they want to stick something that appeals to themselves in their work, even if their demographic isn't the target of said work.