The JENOVA-theory (SPOILERS AHEAD)

[Flashback007]

Ok, this is one of my theory's. I have thought of it myself, but it can be that other people also believe in this theory, so if so I didn't steal it from you, it's just a coidcidence.

Ok, first of all, let's look at the facts.

A few years before everything in FFVII happened Cloud, Sephiroth and Zack went to Nibelheim. There Sephiroth discovered that Shinra had used him and that Sephiroth actually believed that he was the child of JENOVA, who had crashed into the Nothern Crater. He turned into a rage set fire on Nibelheim, killed people and dissapeared. After that there wasn't heard of him anymore. Shinra moved JENOVA from Nibelheim to Midgar.

Those are the facts that are 100% sure.

Then what all happens in FFVII: "sephiroth" breaks JENOVA out and kills president Shinra. "Sephiroth" travels towards Junon, goes on the boat, where an encouter takes place between him and the party. "Sephiroth" travells futher Temple of Ancients, City of Ancients etc. And ends up killing Aeris. that is the second time that the party really stands against "Sephiroth". Again they have to fight with JENOVA. "Sephiroth" travells futher towards the Nothern Crater, also everyone parcipating in the Reunion is also going there. During the travell to the Nothern Crater, the party encouters "Sephiroth" one more time. And again JENOVA is the one they have to fight. After that Cloud gives the black materia to someone, but "Sephiroth" lures that one into a trick so that. Cloud who's mind goes crazy for the second time can give it to Sephiroth. But, the Sephiroth Cloud gives the materia to is frozen and misses is legs. It also seems he has been hanging there for a while.

Now, how is that possible then? My explantion for that is, that the party and Shinra isn't chasing Sephiroth no, they are chasing JENOVA. It's JENOVA who did all those things. Killing president Shinra, the encouters with Sephiroth and the killing of Aeris. Why do I think that? There are different reason:
- Sephiroth is frozen and misses his legs when you see him in the icecube in the Nothern Crater. Plus the ice-cube is stucked towards some hard plants.
-Everytime you get very near to Sephiroth, you encouter JENOVA. How is it that you never see JENOVA when you are chasing Sephiroth, but do encouter her.
-Both Cloud and Sephiroth are infected with JENOVA-cells by Hojo. Both are suddenly acting wierd.

How does JENOVA do this? I shall take Sephiroth and Cloud first. Sephiroth was the first "experiment" of Hojo, which he infected with JENOVA-cells. As soon as Sephiroth got curious and saw JENOVA in Nibelheim, he got mad. JENOVA somehow (telepatic, maybe) controlled Sephiroth. That way she forced Sephiroth in creating a chaos in Nibelheim, hoping that she was able to escape. Unfortunatly she was captured by Shinra. And they brought her to Midgar. Meanwhile Cloud was infected with JENOVA-cells. Then suddenly when Cloud, Barrett and Tifa were in the Shinra-building to free Aeris, JENOVA remembered the JENOVA-cells. Hojo also tried the cells on him and with the help of Hojo JENOVA escaped. Hojo (the father of Sephiroth) used the sword of Sephiroth to kill everyone. That way the chaos was created so that JENOVA escaped. This time it worked. Probarly because the prisoners escaped. In the temple of Ancients JENOVA used her power so that Cloud (telepaticly instructed by JENOVA) could and over the Black Materia and that also happened in the Nothern Crater when Cloud handed over the Black Materia to the frozen Sephiroth and so to JENOVA
Then what about the others? According what I just said, those JENOVA cells have the power to control someone. Maybe JENOVA is able to spread a kind of poison, that messes with the mind of people. They see things that are not really there. But sometimes (the three close encounters) JENOVA wasn't able to use her poison anymore and got in to trouble and had to show herself. But most of the time she was able to fool people.

Is the Sephiroth in the end of the game then the real Sephiroth? Maybe, but I don't believe so. I think JENOVA somehow managed to get the Black Materia in to her, maybe by consuming the frozen Sephiroth and she growed in her powers. That way she could control Hojo to destroy the barrier around the Nothern Crater. She was also able to summon the meteor. She couldn't control Cloud anymore, because he healed somehow from the JENOVAcells. By falling the Mako-energy. The last bosses are all illusions from JENOVA and the last one, is maybe the ultimate form of JENOVA. And she looked like Sephiroth maybe be cause she consumed him or maybe an other illusion. But she got defeated. A last bit of life of her confronted Cloud one more time with his JENOVA-cells. But Cloud saw Sephiroth as his ultimate enemy and defeated him and so the JENOVA-cells in his head.

I hope you understand my theory and maybe it's wrong or maybe it's right I don't know that. Maybe everything will be cleared out in Advent Children. We shall see. But for now, I believe in this theory.

[MistaCloudStrife]

Alright... i sort of agree with your theory BUT... not all of it...

I think Sephiroth actually did all that on his own... not JENOVA... theres no reason for JENOVA to take his form... i think every since before in Nibelhiem Sephiroth became influenced by JENOVA and did whatever she said, since she was his "Mother" or whatever... BUT Cloud killed Sephiroth before he tried to leave and JENOVAs head was lost as well...

Now, if you notice... the Sephiroth with no legs... hes in the area with the WEAPONs if i remember correctly... IMO he was being re made in that substance similar to how the WEAPONs are being made... of course it takes a long time... years to be exact... so hes actually been there the whole time... but he projects himself to other places like what he did in Shinra Headquarters... thats how he can fly all over the place and everything... and disappear and stuff....

Now in Advent Children... the Brothers Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo... they supposedly have the head of JENOVA... and they are planning to have another reunion... which makes me think.. that Sephiroth with no legs... I think he is now complete and the only thing needed now is... the reunion...



Thats what i think... if anyone thinks otherwise tell me.. ^_~

[BudSoda02]

You're both on the right track but a little off. Sephiroth spent all that night in Niblihem (Cloud's flashback) looking up information on Jenova. Seeing this information caused him to go insane. He tore the 'Jenova' door open in the reactor, trying to 'set' her free. Fortunately Cloud & Zack intervened, preventing him from this. More later kay?
Thanks- BudSoda02 BudSoda02@yahoo.com

[Raistlin]

My explantion for that is, that the party and Shinra isn't chasing Sephiroth no, they are chasing JENOVA.
'Tis what Kishi and I have been saying for a while now. However, unlike him, I don't think the theories conclusive, just most probable.

[feioncastor]

Hojo (the father of Sephiroth) used the sword of Sephiroth to kill everyone

I agree with you, except for this one line. Hojo couldn't have used the Masamune to do anything because it is made abundantly clear that only Sephiroth is mighty enough to wield the sword.

I know what you're all thinking. If only he could do it, then it must've been him that killed Shin-Ra, and so forth, but that's not true. Why was Sephiroth able to wield such a great sword? Because he was injected with Jenova cells while in Lucrecia's womb. So naturally, if it was Jenova's strength that strengthened Sephiroth, then Jenova herself would easily be able to do it, even if taking on the form of Sephiroth.

My questions:

When you go back to Nibelheim, it is not burned down. If Sephiroth burned it down, why is it still there? And why does no one there know Cloud, if he grew up there? And if he didn't grow up there, then why does Tifa remember the promise he made her at the well?

Feion

[Heath]

Why would Hojo want to kill Shinra, what would he gain from it? He'd already been given the go ahead for his experiment with the Ancients and the Promised Land so he was a happy chappy as far as his research was concerned.

Also, note the fact that Sephiroth was the only person to be able to effectively use the Masamune, Tifa takes it and struggles with Sephiroth over it and never actually uses it, one could assume she wanted to use it but was unable to, otherwise why would she have picked it up?



My questions:

When you go back to Nibelheim, it is not burned down. If Sephiroth burned it down, why is it still there? And why does no one there know Cloud, if he grew up there? And if he didn't grow up there, then why does Tifa remember the promise he made her at the well?

Feion

That's explained quite clearly in-game that the Shinra rebuilt the town and hired actors to live in the rebuilt Nibelheim so no one would be the wiser about the whole Sephiroth ordeal. Hence why no one remembers the incident in Nibelheim other than Tifa and Cloud.

[Raistlin]

Ok, I actually bothered to read through the whole theory this time.


Is the Sephiroth in the end of the game then the real Sephiroth? Maybe, but I don't believe so. I think JENOVA somehow managed to get the Black Materia in to her, maybe by consuming the frozen Sephiroth and she growed in her powers. That way she could control Hojo to destroy the barrier around the Nothern Crater. She was also able to summon the meteor. She couldn't control Cloud anymore, because he healed somehow from the JENOVAcells. By falling the Mako-energy. The last bosses are all illusions from JENOVA and the last one, is maybe the ultimate form of JENOVA. And she looked like Sephiroth maybe be cause she consumed him or maybe an other illusion. But she got defeated. A last bit of life of her confronted Cloud one more time with his JENOVA-cells. But Cloud saw Sephiroth as his ultimate enemy and defeated him and so the JENOVA-cells in his head.
That's a little out there. It's MUCH more simple and just as logical to say the last boss really was Sephiroth, who had been contained in the frozen mako in the North Crater for the past five years. Actually, it's more logical: why would Jenova get rid of Sephiroth, who could be very useful to her?

[auron_790]

The whole theory seemed very complicated but it took up most of the game. I think the whole concept of this theory was vital to the game but did we actually find out the true meaning of Jenova? Many people had their own views. Will we find out a real answer?

[peelfish]

I think an important piece of evidence for this theory that is often overlooked is the role of meteor. Jenova created Northern Crater when it landed from space. this wounded the planet in the same way as meteor would have. In the tapes in Icicle Ifalna says that after this event the Cetra helped heal the planet. If the Cetra had not intervened I believe Jenova would have taken control of the Lifestream at that time. However she was defeated and trapped. 2000 years later the events in the game happen and I think the focus of VII is this second attempt of Jenova to take over the Lifestream even though it is deeply hidden.
Also on the point of "Sephiroth" being Jenova there is a quote by Tifa following the fight with Jenova death when J-cells appear on the ground along the lines of, you mean we've been following Jenova all this time. Anyway thats a bit of my view on the issue for those interested

[xxspawnerxx]

Ok, this is one of my theory's. I have thought of it myself, but it can be that other people also believe in this theory, so if so I didn't steal it from you, it's just a coidcidence.

Ok, first of all, let's look at the facts.

A few years before everything in FFVII happened Cloud, Sephiroth and Zack went to Nibelheim. There Sephiroth discovered that Shinra had used him and that Sephiroth actually believed that he was the child of JENOVA, who had crashed into the Nothern Crater. He turned into a rage set fire on Nibelheim, killed people and dissapeared. After that there wasn't heard of him anymore. Shinra moved JENOVA from Nibelheim to Midgar.

Those are the facts that are 100% sure.

Then what all happens in FFVII: "sephiroth" breaks JENOVA out and kills president Shinra. "Sephiroth" travels towards Junon, goes on the boat, where an encouter takes place between him and the party. "Sephiroth" travells futher Temple of Ancients, City of Ancients etc. And ends up killing Aeris. that is the second time that the party really stands against "Sephiroth". Again they have to fight with JENOVA. "Sephiroth" travells futher towards the Nothern Crater, also everyone parcipating in the Reunion is also going there. During the travell to the Nothern Crater, the party encouters "Sephiroth" one more time. And again JENOVA is the one they have to fight. After that Cloud gives the black materia to someone, but "Sephiroth" lures that one into a trick so that. Cloud who's mind goes crazy for the second time can give it to Sephiroth. But, the Sephiroth Cloud gives the materia to is frozen and misses is legs. It also seems he has been hanging there for a while.

Now, how is that possible then? My explantion for that is, that the party and Shinra isn't chasing Sephiroth no, they are chasing JENOVA. It's JENOVA who did all those things. Killing president Shinra, the encouters with Sephiroth and the killing of Aeris. Why do I think that? There are different reason:
- Sephiroth is frozen and misses his legs when you see him in the icecube in the Nothern Crater. Plus the ice-cube is stucked towards some hard plants.
-Everytime you get very near to Sephiroth, you encouter JENOVA. How is it that you never see JENOVA when you are chasing Sephiroth, but do encouter her.
-Both Cloud and Sephiroth are infected with JENOVA-cells by Hojo. Both are suddenly acting wierd.

How does JENOVA do this? I shall take Sephiroth and Cloud first. Sephiroth was the first "experiment" of Hojo, which he infected with JENOVA-cells. As soon as Sephiroth got curious and saw JENOVA in Nibelheim, he got mad. JENOVA somehow (telepatic, maybe) controlled Sephiroth. That way she forced Sephiroth in creating a chaos in Nibelheim, hoping that she was able to escape. Unfortunatly she was captured by Shinra. And they brought her to Midgar. Meanwhile Cloud was infected with JENOVA-cells. Then suddenly when Cloud, Barrett and Tifa were in the Shinra-building to free Aeris, JENOVA remembered the JENOVA-cells. Hojo also tried the cells on him and with the help of Hojo JENOVA escaped. Hojo (the father of Sephiroth) used the sword of Sephiroth to kill everyone. That way the chaos was created so that JENOVA escaped. This time it worked. Probarly because the prisoners escaped. In the temple of Ancients JENOVA used her power so that Cloud (telepaticly instructed by JENOVA) could and over the Black Materia and that also happened in the Nothern Crater when Cloud handed over the Black Materia to the frozen Sephiroth and so to JENOVA
Then what about the others? According what I just said, those JENOVA cells have the power to control someone. Maybe JENOVA is able to spread a kind of poison, that messes with the mind of people. They see things that are not really there. But sometimes (the three close encounters) JENOVA wasn't able to use her poison anymore and got in to trouble and had to show herself. But most of the time she was able to fool people.

Is the Sephiroth in the end of the game then the real Sephiroth? Maybe, but I don't believe so. I think JENOVA somehow managed to get the Black Materia in to her, maybe by consuming the frozen Sephiroth and she growed in her powers. That way she could control Hojo to destroy the barrier around the Nothern Crater. She was also able to summon the meteor. She couldn't control Cloud anymore, because he healed somehow from the JENOVAcells. By falling the Mako-energy. The last bosses are all illusions from JENOVA and the last one, is maybe the ultimate form of JENOVA. And she looked like Sephiroth maybe be cause she consumed him or maybe an other illusion. But she got defeated. A last bit of life of her confronted Cloud one more time with his JENOVA-cells. But Cloud saw Sephiroth as his ultimate enemy and defeated him and so the JENOVA-cells in his head.

I hope you understand my theory and maybe it's wrong or maybe it's right I don't know that. Maybe everything will be cleared out in Advent Children. We shall see. But for now, I believe in this theory.

I think your absolutly right so the voices in clouds head is jenova?

[Raistlin]

I think your absolutly right so the voices in clouds head is jenova?
The voices don't really matter. Could be Jenova, could be the real Sephiroth up in the North Crater. Who knows?


Jenova created Northern Crater when it landed from space. this wounded the planet in the same way as meteor would have.
Hardly. Jenova made a crater. Meteor was meant to destroy the Planet. Meteor's about 57349205 times the size of Jenova.


If the Cetra had not intervened I believe Jenova would have taken control of the Lifestream at that time. However she was defeated and trapped. 2000 years later the events in the game happen and I think the focus of VII is this second attempt of Jenova to take over the Lifestream even though it is deeply hidden.
I honestly believe that Jenova doesn't give a damn about the Lifestream. I think she just wanted to destroy the Planet(Meteor was meant to destroy the Planet, and the whole Lifetsream theory was just meant to further manipulate Sephiroth to do her bidding). She, being an alien, can't manipulate the Lifestream like Sephiroth - otherwise, she could've just summoned Meteor herself, and not needed Sephiroth.

[novarta]

i think that jenova controls the first sephiroth clone, be cause sepiroth is son of lurceria(or what is her name) and that why jenova can´t have so strong control to original sepihroth<-- and if that is true jenova is using sepiroth for her own good or sepiroth is using jenova for his own good.
what was that about when hojo said that cloud was the only succesful sepiroth clone.

[Raistlin]

what was that about when hojo said that cloud was the only succesful sepiroth clone.
He called Cloud a failure clone. Several times.

[feioncastor]

i think that jenova controls the first sephiroth clone, be cause sepiroth is son of lurceria(or what is her name) and that why jenova can´t have so strong control to original sepihroth<-- and if that is true jenova is using sepiroth for her own good or sepiroth is using jenova for his own good.
what was that about when hojo said that cloud was the only succesful sepiroth clone.
Cloud was definitely not a succesful clone, which is which is why he doesn't have a tatoo, right? All of the Sephiroth clones got a tatoo of what number they were.

So I gotta know, was Cloud really a failed experiment? And if not, was he really injected with Jenova cells? And if so, then why would they inject some guy with Jenova Cells if they weren't experimenting on him?

This game is so complicated.

Feion

[nihowma buffet]

here's my two cents.

in the shinra mansion, i believe jenova merely cohersed sephiroth. she probably egged him on a bit more than he would have normally, but i believe that it was mostly sephiroth until he died in the mt. nibel reactor. i believe that it was at this point that jenova "assimilated" sephiroth and "became" him.

i've always thought it was curious that after the events at the north crater, sephiroth has NO lines. none. the only times he speaks in game time/not in a flashback are very cryptic. i think bits and pieces of sephiroth's personality show through, but i believe that's all jenova. even when you fight him at the end of the game, "sephiroth" says nothing. he just sits on top of holy and attacks you.

and based on his transformation at the end of the game, i believe that was jenova as well. even when hojo mutated himself with jenova cells, his mutation wasn't nearly the level of sephiroth's. i think it would take jenova herself to do that to an organism.

those are just my thoughts.

[novarta]

as well as i remember hojo tought that cloud was a a failure clone first. but before the killing hojo he said that cloud was succesful.
but didn´t cloud realise in the lifestream that he couldn´t be in the better soldier class because he really wasn´t a clone, but zack was in the upper soldier class because he was an sepiroth clone experiment.

[Doors]

To be honest, after killing all the Jenovas under 5 minutes(the death one under 3), I dont understand what kind of "power" it might have. :P

[nihowma buffet]

lol!

i agree.... but in the story she's powerful. :tongue:

[Doors]

lol!

i agree.... but in the story she's powerful. :tongue:
Cant argue with that.
But think Diablo 2...if Andariel can destroy a country,how cant she and her 1000 minions destroy one amock-running adventurer

[Raistlin]

here's my two cents.
but i believe that it was mostly sephiroth until he died in the mt. nibel reactor.
Sephy didn't die there. He was swept by the mako up towards the North Crater, where his body was frozen until Cloud neatly handed him the Black Materia to summon Meteor.

[feioncastor]

Sephy didn't die there. He was swept by the mako up towards the North Crater, where his body was frozen until Cloud neatly handed him the Black Materia to summon Meteor.

But the Mt. Nibel reactor scene took place before the start of the game, so I guess, the Mt. Nibel scene would be a flashback. Later, you see Sephiroth stil frozen in Mako in the Northern Crater. So it couldn't have been the real Sephiroth that you follow from Midgar to Junon and so forth, because the real Sephy was thrown into the Mako by Cloud before Cloud ever met Barret, and hooked up with AVALANCHE and all of that.

Therefore, the Sephiroth that killed Shin-Ra, the Midgar Zolom, and even Aeris isn't really Sephiroth, but rather is someone posing as Sephiroth, which I believe must be Jenova. I understand Sephiroth, and who he is, but I dont' get Cloud. Was Cloud really a clone? Was he injected with Jenova cells? What happened to Nibelheim? Why didn't they all know Cloud? I know someone said that Shin-Ra rebuilt the town and hired actors, or repopulated with other people, but I mean.... I dont' know.... Now I'm all confused.

Seriously, if someone feels up to doing a lot of typing, they should explain Cloud's REAL life, in chronological order, at least, up till he joins Barret at the beginning of the game.

Feion

[Raistlin]

But the Mt. Nibel reactor scene took place before the start of the game, so I guess, the Mt. Nibel scene would be a flashback. Later, you see Sephiroth stil frozen in Mako in the Northern Crater. So it couldn't have been the real Sephiroth that you follow from Midgar to Junon and so forth, because the real Sephy was thrown into the Mako by Cloud before Cloud ever met Barret, and hooked up with AVALANCHE and all of that.
That's exactly what I said.


Therefore, the Sephiroth that killed Shin-Ra, the Midgar Zolom, and even Aeris isn't really Sephiroth, but rather is someone posing as Sephiroth, which I believe must be Jenova.
That's also what I said.


Was Cloud really a clone? Was he injected with Jenova cells?
Yes, he was a "clone." Yes, he was injected with Jenova cells.


What happened to Nibelheim? Why didn't they all know Cloud?
In Nibelheim, read that note on Tifa's desk. Explains everything. Yes, Nibelheim was burned down/killed, and Shinra actors(mostly Sephiroth clones) were hired to do the part of the citizens.

[feioncastor]

In Nibelheim, read that note on Tifa's desk. Explains everything. Yes, Nibelheim was burned down/killed, and Shinra actors(mostly Sephiroth clones) were hired to do the part of the citizens.
Is that why you see so many guys in the black robes wandering around Nibelheim talking about the reunion?

And if Cloud is a Sephy clone, then wouldn't they have kept him in a lab or something rather than putting him in Nibelheim to grow up?

Feion

[Juke]

This is how it all went down. Jenova is not sephiroths mother, that lady luceria is, that lady that vincent talks to in disk two in that cave. Hojo is sephiroth's daddy which means those two did the dirty dirty. When he was born hojo experiemented on a bunch of people including sephiroth with the jenova cells. cloud was also part of the experiment when he so called joined SOLIDER. When Nibeleim burnt down, sephiroth found out he was part of a experiement and flipped out. He goes to mount nibel to free jenova, because he know feels she is his mother, maybe by manipulation, because it happens to could when he buggs out so it muts happen to him as well. Cloud ends up defeating sephiroth but obviously didnt kill him and five years later cloud ends up in midgar confused.

[Raistlin]

Is that why you see so many guys in the black robes wandering around Nibelheim talking about the reunion?
Yeppers.


And if Cloud is a Sephy clone, then wouldn't they have kept him in a lab or something rather than putting him in Nibelheim to grow up?
Well, it's debated that "Sephiroth clone", in the FF7 world, means nothing more than having been injected with Jenova cells(hence Red XIII's tatoo, and he obviously wasn't a real clone).
There's also the alternative and much less-supported theory that Cloud was a literal Sephiroth clone, and was considered a failure, possibly being abandoned on a Nibelheim doorstep.


cloud was also part of the experiment when he so called joined SOLIDER.
There's no in-game evidence for Cloud being injected with Jenova cells before Hojo captured him after the Nibelheim Reactor incident.

[Maxico]

There is no way that cloud is a clone. What so ever.

He is called a failed experiment because he and zack were experimented on in nibleheim after they were stabbed with sharp stabby things. Zack was the successful experiment and cloud was the failed one. On that occasion there were only two so Im assuming that he didnt nead to tattoo them for identification.

[Raistlin]

There is no way that cloud is a clone. What so ever.

He is called a failed experiment because he and zack were experimented on in nibleheim after they were stabbed with sharp stabby things. Zack was the successful experiment and cloud was the failed one. On that occasion there were only two so Im assuming that he didnt nead to tattoo them for identification.
Nope. They both failed.

[BudSoda02]

This is pretty confusing. :confused: Well Zack & any other SOLDIER there is has Jenova cells injected in him/her. (Or I'm wrong maybe they get showered with mako, Cloud got the 'shower' after being injected.) Cloud, Sephiroth & Sephiroth's 'clones' all have such a high amount of Jenova cells in them that it can cause histerics. Like Cloud fading in & out of the world (blacking out even) because of the Jenova cells & Sephiroth somehow manipulating them to cause Cloud to follow him & in Disc 2 give him the Black Materia. Sephiroth went nuts after reading the 'Jenova Files' & discovering Jenova's presence in the Niblihem Reactor. The black caped numbers just kind of went nuts when Sephiroth manipulated them. Jenova was manipulating Sephiroth, but there was no need to do too much, as Sephiroth went REALLY nuts & promised Jenova to eliminate the planet & all who stood in the way. This included Shinra, Sephiroth's former employer.
____________________________________________________________

Also you discover that Cloud used Zack's identity when Tifa's in the Lifestream with him. Also it goes into further detail in disc 3, when you examine the tubes in the Shinra Mansion (which never burnt when Sephiroth set the town on fire.) & you'll see a flashback between Zack & Cloud going to Midgar, that's how Cloud got to Midgar. Zack got killed by the Shinra troops after a brave fight & Cloud was thought to be dead, because of his state at the time. He grabbed Zack's sword & ended up moving toward the train station in the sector 7 slums.
**** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** **** ***
I'll tell you more later I've spent a long time typing (and remembering) this. It's bought back a lot of memories of my first time going through the FFVII world completely, doing ALL of the sidequests. Those were the good ole' days.
Thanks- BudSoda02 BudSoda02@yahoo.com :cry:

[finalheaven]

ok im confused too..ppl say that cloud is a clone or hes not...ectect ...hojo did make clones of sephiroth...and he used cloud and zack to experiment on. as soliders...i think they all had somehting injected into them..mako.was it..??..as 'the soliders all have those eyes' yes cloud was a failed experiment..but he was mentally stronger then zack. so when he woke up after being experimented on...he took zack sword and took his memories...wait was zack killed??..ok u know what im gonna re -read all this ...btw thanks Budsoda02 for ur time..^_^

[BudSoda02]

SOLDIERS are all 'showered with Mako. I think Cloud got more than the others (although he wasn't actually a SOLDIER) as part of the experiments on him when he first went to Midgar to join SOLDIER when he was 16 I think... Zack was also seen as a major potential 'great', so they poured as much Mako on him as they did on Cloud. You see Zack's parent's i that town of the ruined reactor, they ask you If you've seen their son or not, I think if you go back during disc 3, something happens... but I'm not 100% sure. It's really cold here & I'm tired, so forgive me... I'll remember later. Anyway, there's a bunch of secrets about them later in the game... Taking on real SOLDIERS after escaping Junon is even harder. Well I'll have more later.
Thanks- BudSoda02 BudSoda02@yahoo.com :D

[EmperorLopez]

Let's see what I understood of the game:

Cloud's Life:

-He pass the beginning of his life with Tifa on Nibelheim, desiring to join SOLDIER.

-He gows up and try to join SOLDIER, but he doesn't pass the test, wich is being strong enough to being injected with JENOVA cells and doesn't getting insane. Because of that he becomes these normal blue pattetically weak soldiers of shin-ra.

-He goes on a mission with Sephirot and Zack to Nibelheim.

-There Sephirot goes insane and burns the city. Cloud defeats him and goes insane, confusing his life with Zack's life, in part because of his shame for not becoming a SOLDIER, in part for JENOVA cell influence.

- Tifa founds him near the train station.

*some of it at the end may not be correct because I didn't saw this part on disc3.

JENOVA Cells:

They are injected on the ones trying to enter SOLDIER, if he pass the test he eners SOLDIER, if not he becomes that stupid blue guys.
Sephirot was the first and the strongest SOLDIER, so they injected JENOVA cells on him.

About Sephirot's:

I read a long time ago a theory that says that he got killed in the reactor and his body frost on northern cave, BUT that doesn't happened with his will, wich was so powerfull that transcended trought his body and could even materialize herself. (I like that idea more than the one of chasing JENOVA, and surely explains a lot about him).

*VERY IMPORTANT: I'm Brazilian, as you can see near my avatar, so DON'T make fun of me if there are engish mistakes above, it's NOT the language I speak every day.

[Carnage]

wow im not understanding any of this i gotta replay this game.

[Dante WolfWood]

First of all, if you havent seen the optional zack movie and the optional Lucrecia movie, LOOK IT UP IN A FAQ, bc you'll never understand.

ok:

Cloud and tifa are born and live beside each other in Nibelheim, and either a few years b4 or after, Zack is born in Gongaga. Cloud, is umm, how do I say it, "weird" to the three-some that tifa hangs out with, so cloud thinks he is different and considers them all immature (except for Tifa bc he has a crush on her) During this Time, Tifa barely knows he exist. Ok, here we go that starts the real story:

Tifa mother dies and Tifa runs up Mt. Nibel, where her friends chickin out, so cloud follows her and they both fall and tifa is gravely injured while cloud gets away with skinned knees. Cloud is blamed for takin Tifa up there and is Ashamed of his weakness to save her. So Cloud starts to get into fights and gradually becomes an EXCEPTIONAL fighter (counters the theory of him being completely weak). As time goes on, him and tifa become good friends and Cloud calls her to the well, and tells her hes going to go join soldier to be like Sephy so he can impress her, so Cloud leaves for Midgar.

MIDGAR:
Cloud makes to midgar and joins shinra's army and meets Zack there as well. (at some time while trying to join soldier) Cloud is recognize as an exceptional fighter and tries to do what he came for: join soldier. But unfortunetely for cloud, he fails the mako showers and the small dosage of jenova cells bc his body rejects it and is forced to stay in the shinra army ranks. At this time, Zack makes it to 1st class Soldier. (obviously he passed the Jenova and mako showers)

ashamed for his failure, cloud never writes back to nibelheim where Tifa worries about him everyday, causing her love to grow over-time.

NIbelHeim: There is a mission where Sephy and Zack must investigate why monsters are coming from the reactor. Cloud another soldier is chosen to go with them. While at NibelHeim, Tifa hears some soldiers are coming and she happily choses to be the guide for which she hopes to see cloud. But to her dissapointment Cloud never shows up. The reason is, he is to ashamed to let the people know that he failed so he doesnt reveal himself to anyone there.

phew, I'm tired already, but I'll try to continue:

Ok, so they all travel to the Mt.Nibel reactor. (Zack, Sephy, Tifa, and the two soldiers (which one is cloud)) and they make it. Cloud is ordered to guard Tifa from entering the reactor. OK, so in there, Zack and sephy discover that HoJo is making monsters by OVERshowering soldiers, which is where Sephy goes berserk and runs to the mansion. So, everyone heads back towards the mansion after him to see whats wrong.Zack finds Sepyh who just discovers that he was created with Jenova cells within him. So Sephy starts declaring her Mother and burns Nibelheim calling all Humans Traitos BC he thinks Jenova is a cetra. so Zack, Tifa, Tifa's father, and Cloud (still under uniform) chase after him towards the reactor where Sephy is heading to reclaim his "Mother". Tifa's father gets there first and is killed by sephy. Tifa appears next and attacks him and is cut deeply. Next, Zack comes and fights sephy and loses and is knock almost unconsious. Last, Cloud shows up, looks at the situation, and takes Zack's 2000000 ft long buster sword and stabs sephy in the back while sephy is taking jenova. This injury was very deep only allowing Sephy to take Jenova's head bc of the injury. Cloud runs back and picks up tifa and puts her somewhere safe. Zack, barely consious tells Cloud to kill sephy. So cloud runs after sephy and yells at him and tries to attack him bare-handed.(for some reason) there, Sephy stabbed him (well thought he did) but actually cloud had grabbed the sword and threw him over the walkway into the reactor. (yes, the reason cloud one was bc he was injured, IMO anyway).

Phew,ok ,here I go with my theory about the "failed experiments"

Right after this, Cloud picks up tifa and takes her to a hospital somewhere (or somehow tifa gets out of there) and cloud goes back for Zack. (or there could be some other way) the point is, Zack and Cloud is captured by the shinra army. HoJo decides to make another Ultimate soldier: sephiroth. So, HoJo shower Cloud and Zack with maki and give them heavy doses of Jenova injection daily. Zack is able to take the showers and injections, but cloud cannot, so he loses his mind. Cloud is considered a failure.(I'm not sure about Zack, no in-game text or events can lead up a theory in either way)

alright, after the injections and the showers, Zack finds an opportunity to excape so he takes it and nabbs Cloud while hes at it. Zack finds an old guy to take them to midgar where Zack decides he will take care of cloud and wants them to become Mercenaries after cloud gets better. While cloud seems to be still F-ed up, Zack talks to him about joining soldier and the conversation he had with sephy. Cloud can only answer with a nod or a "uhhh" (which to me, was signs of improving)

So on the outskirts of midgar, the guy drops them off Zack carries cloud and heads for Midgar, but are spotted by shinra troops. Zack defeates the first wave and runs back to check up on Cloud, but is then Pierced by a hail of bullets, killing him. After this, the soldiers leave cloud bc they consider him dead anyway. So, after they leave, cloud takes Zacks buster sword and walks towards midgar train station and where he meets Tifa, who is over excited. While she tries to talk with him, Tifs's memories, Zack's Memories, and what is left of his memories, merge together forming the ex-soldier mercenary Cloud. Then the game starts with clouds first mission as a mercenary for Avalanche.

PHEW!!! enough of that! if you want to hear about Sephy's parents and vincent and how they tie together, you have to wait for someone else to post or for me to feel like it again. phew..

Also, to let you know, Tifa could tell there was something drasticly wrong with him, but she was scared to say something for the fear of losing him again.

so the answers:

is Cloud a clone: no, that is the real cloud

did cloud take Zack's memories bc hes a loser: no, cloud was having "Mental" problems

is Jenova Sephy's Mother: NO, but I'll let someone else explain that or I will LATER

does cloud go insane after defeating Sephy: NO, cloud goes insane after the EXPERIMENT!

about Soldier requirements:
You must be in shinra army or a turk to join.
You will be showered with Mako and revieve small injections of Jenova
If you fail, you return to your former duty.

Was Sephy killed at the reactor 5 years ago: NO, he was NOT, his body drifted to the north crater where he was kept frozen. This is why I believe the sephy that they were chasing after, was really jenova inside sephy's will, sephy wanted to become the ruler of the planet but the Meteor was really Jenova's plan to destroy the planet. Jenova manipulated sephy into thinking he was doing something for self-gain; just like she manipulated Cloud to think he was chasing sephy, but in reality he was being drawn to give sephy the black materia.

PHEW, No I am OFFICIALLY DONE! if there are any questions, Plz go ahead, and ask....

[Raistlin]

Cloud makes to midgar and joins shinra's army and meets Zack there as well. (at some time while trying to join soldier) Cloud is recognize as an exceptional fighter and tries to do what he came for: join soldier. But unfortunetely for cloud, he fails the mako showers and the small dosage of jenova cells bc his body rejects it and is forced to stay in the shinra army ranks. At this time, Zack makes it to 1st class Soldier. (obviously he passed the Jenova and mako showers)
The test for SOLDIER is purely physical, and they are later injected with Jenova cells. Zack failed to react when Hojo injected him with Jenova cells.


Zack finds Sepyh who just discovers that he was created with Jenova cells within him.
He goes insane because he thinks he was created in a test tube.


This injury was very deep only allowing Sephy to take Jenova's head bc of the injury.
I don't think the injury affected what he took of Jenova.


Last, Cloud shows up, looks at the situation, and takes Zack's 2000000 ft long buster sword and stabs sephy in the back while sephy is taking jenova. This injury was very deep only allowing Sephy to take Jenova's head bc of the injury. Cloud runs back and picks up tifa and puts her somewhere safe. Zack, barely consious tells Cloud to kill sephy. So cloud runs after sephy and yells at him and tries to attack him bare-handed.(for some reason) there, Sephy stabbed him (well thought he did) but actually cloud had grabbed the sword and threw him over the walkway into the reactor. (yes, the reason cloud one was bc he was injured, IMO anyway).
This sequence of events is wrong. After Tifa is knocked out, Cloud immediately picks her up and sets her aside. Then he runs after Sephy and stabs him. Sephiroth bitch slaps him and Cloud is knocked down. Sephiroth walks out. Cloud runs after him, goes to attack, and Sephy runs him through. Cloud grabs his sword, throws him over the edge.


Right after this, Cloud picks up tifa and takes her to a hospital somewhere (or somehow tifa gets out of there) and cloud goes back for Zack. (or there could be some other way)
Or, y'know, Cloud just collapses since he was RUN THROUGH.


Zack is able to take the showers and injections, but cloud cannot, so he loses his mind. Cloud is considered a failure.(I'm not sure about Zack, no in-game text or events can lead up a theory in either way)
Zack's body does not respond to the injections, and he is considered a failure. Cloud's body does react somewhat, but later doesn't develop more, so he's also considered a failure. The reason Cloud goes nuts is because of the Jenova cells developing within him.


about Soldier requirements:
You must be in shinra army or a turk to join.
You will be showered with Mako and revieve small injections of Jenova
If you fail, you return to your former duty.
The Jenova cell injections happen after one joins SOLDIER, otherwise Zack wouldn't have made it.


Other than those few(relatively minor) discrepancies, your tale is pretty accurate.

[sayen]

The voices don't really matter. Could be Jenova, could be the real Sephiroth up in the North Crater. Who knows?


Hardly. Jenova made a crater. Meteor was meant to destroy the Planet. Meteor's about 57349205 times the size of Jenova.


I honestly believe that Jenova doesn't give a damn about the Lifestream. I think she just wanted to destroy the Planet(Meteor was meant to destroy the Planet, and the whole Lifetsream theory was just meant to further manipulate Sephiroth to do her bidding). She, being an alien, can't manipulate the Lifestream like Sephiroth - otherwise, she could've just summoned Meteor herself, and not needed Sephiroth.

Wrong Jenova was the clamity from the sky as descrbed in the game. She then went round killing all the cetra with a virus. She then got stuck in some kind of event like a vocanic eruption and survived but was also trapped in the ground. You only see the real sephiroth 3 times. In clouds storey in that town then in the materia in north crater then when you defeat him in the final battle. Jenova Is using the clones as puppets to draw cloud to find the black materia and then give it to sephiroth. Jenova was probibly not an achent but could controll the life stream if there where no achents left on the planet.

[Raistlin]

Wrong Jenova was the clamity from the sky as descrbed in the game. She then went round killing all the cetra with a virus. She then got stuck in some kind of event like a vocanic eruption and survived but was also trapped in the ground. You only see the real sephiroth 3 times. In clouds storey in that town then in the materia in north crater then when you defeat him in the final battle. Jenova Is using the clones as puppets to draw cloud to find the black materia and then give it to sephiroth. Jenova was probibly not an achent but could controll the life stream if there where no achents left on the planet.
You didn't read anything I posted.

No duh Jenova was the calamity from the skies. I said she made the crater, which, if you remember correctly, was caused by the "calamity from the skies."

The rest of what you said barely makes any sense and doesn't seem to have any relevance at all to your point. But Jenova was NOT an Ancient and could not control the Lifestream.

[Dante WolfWood]

The test for SOLDIER is purely physical, and they are later injected with Jenova cells. Zack failed to react when Hojo injected him with Jenova cells.

hmm, maybe you're right about the Jenova cells, I do know for a Fact that Soldiers Were Showered with mako and cloud Failed bc of that.


He goes insane because he thinks he was created in a test tube.

I didnt say anything that lead anyone to believe he went crazy bc Jenova was his mother. Sorry if i wrote it that way, never been to good at writing for a long term of time.


I don't think the injury affected what he took of Jenova.

Sorry, my fault again, I meant to put, that was the reason he was only able to grab her head, not the whole reason he grabbed her; he was meaning to take her with him, but the injury wouldnt let him.


This sequence of events is wrong. After Tifa is knocked out, Cloud immediately picks her up and sets her aside. Then he runs after Sephy and stabs him. Sephiroth bitch slaps him and Cloud is knocked down. Sephiroth walks out. Cloud runs after him, goes to attack, and Sephy runs him through. Cloud grabs his sword, throws him over the edge.

....No, I'm sure I'm right. Cloud saw Zack and Tifa, was furious, and grabbed Zack's sword. He ran after sephy and stabbed him in his back the room. He ran out and took care of tifa and then sephy walked out. Then Zack told him to kill him, so cloud ran after him. I do believe I am right on this one, I saw this scene about a week ago for the 3rd time.


Or, y'know, Cloud just collapses since he was RUN THROUGH.

Sorry, I wasnt sure about this part.


Zack's body does not respond to the injections, and he is considered a failure. Cloud's body does react somewhat, but later doesn't develop more, so he's also considered a failure. The reason Cloud goes nuts is because of the Jenova cells developing within him.

oh ok, so Zack WAS a failure. sorry about that


The Jenova cell injections happen after one joins SOLDIER, otherwise Zack wouldn't have made it.

oh ok, wasnt sure about that either


Other than those few(relatively minor) discrepancies, your tale is pretty accurate.

thks, I tried, kinda hard writing for such a long time.

[Raistlin]

hmm, maybe you're right about the Jenova cells, I do know for a Fact that Soldiers Were Showered with mako and cloud Failed bc of that.
Did you go ask someone from Square? Because in the game it just says the he "didn't have what it took" to get into SOLDIER. All Shinra guards were given mako, so that wouldn't make sense to be the reason.



....No, I'm sure I'm right. Cloud saw Zack and Tifa, was furious, and grabbed Zack's sword. He ran after sephy and stabbed him in his back the room. He ran out and took care of tifa and then sephy walked out. Then Zack told him to kill him, so cloud ran after him. I do believe I am right on this one, I saw this scene about a week ago for the 3rd time.
So he entered the area, saw Tifa fall, ran after Sephy, ran back out with Sephiroth only wounded, took care of Tifa, then ran back to deal with Sephy? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

[ShunNakamura]

I think more how Dante is seeing that scene is Cloud stabs Sephrioth believes he his finished then goes back to tifa to administer what ever first aid he could.

Sephrioth then walks out, at which point zack tells cloud to kill sephrioth which cloud goes out to do. Cloud is wounded but manages to toss sephrioth. That is how I understand what Dante is saying.

Continue posting away, I like reading this topic even if I generally don't have anything to add.

[Raistlin]

Quoted from a game script at GameFAQS


Tifa attempted to snatch and slash Sephiroth with the Masamune but Sephiroth
took the sword from her and slashed her and Tifa fell down the stairs. Then
Sephiroth went inside the room with Jenova. Cloud helped Tifa who was seriously
wounded.

Tifa: ...You promised... You promised that you'd come...... when I was in
trouble...

Cloud picked her up and placed her to safety. Cloud then goes inside the room
with Jenova.

Sephiroth: Mother, let's take this planet back together. I've thought of a great
idea. Let's go to the Promised Land.

Cloud: Sephiroth... My family! My hometown! How could you do this to them!?

Sephiroth: Ha, ha, ha...... They've come again, mother. With her superior power,
knowledge, and magic, Mother was destined to become the ruler of the Planet.

We watch a movie of Sephiroth and his lines.

Sephiroth: But they... Those worthless creatures are stealing the Planet from
Mother. But now I'm here with you so don't worry.

He took off Jenova.

Cloud: What about MY sadness!? My family... friends... The sadness of having my
hometown taken away from me!? It's the same as your sadness!

Sephiroth: Ha, ha, ha... my sadness? What do I have to be sad about? I am the
chosen one. I have been chosen to be the leader of this Planet. I have orders to
take this planet back from you stupid people for the Cetra. What am I supposed
to be sad about?

Cloud: Sephiroth... I trusted you... No, you're not the Sephiroth I used to
know!

Cloud draw his sword and start's a dual with Sephiroth (showing Cloud and
Sephiroth one at a time and faster). flashback ended

That was from the flashback. I scrolled down to try and find the full version from the flashback from disc 2 in Mideel, but it's a crappy game script and only says "Zack replaces Cloud for all events" and isn't complete. But that shows that he helped Tifa first.

[ShunNakamura]

That I wouldn't know too much about, my PS went on the fritze early on... I was just translating his words as I saw it. it may be contradictory but it could make sense.

[Destai]

I think where alot of the questions about the Sephiroth clones and Cloud arise from is WHAT exactly IS a clone. Its not people who were grown in test tubes in the shinra building or whatever. What they did was shower soldiers with Mako (a cheap knock off of Jenova cells as far as the shinra could see). This was seen in the flashback in the basement of the shinra mansion in Disc 3 or late disc 2. If Im not mistaken thats what was done to the black caped men. A succesful cloan was someone who relatively began mumbling about Sephiroth and the reunion. Thats probably why there were so many cloans in Nebelheim. People who were showered with mako (or cloaed) In the basement of the shinra mansion as Cloud and Zack were. So to say Cloud was cloaned isnt exactly right but not exactly wrong either. Its just a misunderstanding of the word cloaned. Thats my theory anyway.

[Shoden]

give it a rest people theres evidence to say that cloud is a human not a clone you see Tifa knows him from CHILDHOOD and they didnt clone sephiorth till around the start of the game, the supposed sephiorth clones are in fact survivors of the nibelheim incident who were captured and forced into similar experiments sephiorth was.
ok all SOLDIERs are injected with mako which is mixed with a tiny piece of jenova cells, cloud survived it and so did zack. if cloud had all them memories then how could he be a clone. he and Tifa know eachother well, she remembers his promise and etc.this is enough evidence to say that cloud is NOT a clone. Hojo calls cloud an experiment and failure to manipulate his mind since it was unstable he was a schizo untill his wounds were healed in the lifestream with Tifa.

i know some of you wil shout on saying im full of crap but ive made a point examplified and explained the true facts the game sometimes makes you get the wrong idea like the sephiroth father incident involving vincent and hojo. if you go through the game and pay attention to the tricky parts that can give you wrong ideas you'll see what i mean and that cloud isnt a clone

[Destai]

Spoilers from here on out-

....Slow to catch on?Let me explain again. Cloud was sprayed with Mako. That makes him a Clone. If you know half as much of the game as you seem to think you yourself saw the hidden flashback where both Cloud and Zack were in Mako filled tubes in the basement of the Shinra mansion. That was the cloning process. Now pay attention. This will seriously mess with your head. Cloud went through the cloning process-This makes Cloud a Clone. This isnt theory. Its fact. If you dont agree you havent played the game. If you'd even bothered to read my post properly (if you read it at all) you'd see that Cloud lived a normal life in Nibelheim, Joined Shinra, Failed to become a soldier like sephiroth, got sent on a mission with sephiroth and a soldier named Zack, Completed the mission and witnessed Sephiroth go crazy, defeated Sephiroth , Him and Zack got put in Mako tubes and went through more Mako than average members of soldier but managed to escape before it had serios effects. THAT WAS THE CLONING PROCESS. Cloud was affected worse than Zack and couldnt remember Zack being killed around the gates of Midgar or many of the events before hand (defeating Sephiroth etc.)

Tifa and Clouds memories did happen but being sprayed with Mako makes him a clone of Sephiroth.

[Shoden]

well all SOLDIERS are put through the mako process but they arent just enfused with mako energy its also jenova cells. you got the term of clone wrong as cloud lived a life and didnt look exactly like sephiroth. the so called clones were infact people who were captured and experimented on till they became a sephiroth look alike they were more of a clone than cloud was, cloud underwent the same experiments all members of SOLDIER did and if he survived he was recruited into SOLDIER.

a clone is an exact copy created from scratch from cells of the subject. Cloud already existed and doesnt look like sephiroth therefore he isnt a clone.


i dont want to argue but cloud is human and the shinra people make SOLDIERS as close to sephiroth as possible without changing the subjects which is why they use a small amount of jenova cells in the bath. it just seems logical you see

[Destai]

Thats very true, a clone is an exact look alike but in the world of FFVII a Sephiroth clone is someone seen as being as strong and having abilities equal to that of Sephiroth. Dont believe me? Then open your copy of FFVII and start playing. When Clouds past is uncovered in the lifestream they hold a meeting on the Highwind. He then says that the cloning process was just spraying normal members of soldier with Mako. Like I said before, and again before that. Its a misunderstanding of what exactly is a clone. While you may be correct on what a clone is in real life this is Final Fantasy. The sephiroth clones were kids injected with jenova cells? No, as far as the FF storyine was concerned Sephiroth was the only one who received Jenova cells as a child and if you pay attention Im pretty sure he received them through his mother while he was in the womb. This was a private experimentation on Hojos behalf because ..well he was crazy. Trust me there wasnt a bunch of pregnant woman being injected with jenova cells. The whole process of spraying every member of soldier with Mako was to make them Sephiroth clones. Yes thats right, what Im saying is Shinra wanted to breed an army of Sephirots.

Are you suprised? How exactly did you work out the Seph clones were all kids? True thats how Sephiroth was created but Shinra used a different method. Which pretty much didnt work except for the black cloaked men and they werent between five and seven years old when they received the mako. The clones you saw in the game were Soldiers who were all injected with Mako as adults. They were not Nibelheim townsfolk because they were majority (or all) killed in the fire.

Again, check the part in the game on the highwind, after the lifestream. Cloud says that the cloning process was just spraying soldiers with mako. In different levels of mako, having different effects.

[Shoden]

it's just obvious that these guys arent proper clones ( i mean real Life) by the evidence i gathered i asked myself what happened to the survivors of nibelheim well they were captured for experimentation so no one would know what happened.

well Sephiroth may not of had mako in him but if he did fair enough.
well i refer to cloud as a human not a clone as he hasnt got the same genetic codes as sephiroth nor finger prints etc.
Cloud was a strange one as he and zack escaped before the cloning process was completed therefore in technical words he aint a clone but very close to one as he escaped.


in some ways we are both right and wrong therefore no one can win this arguement

[Destai]

Id have said we both won :D

[Shoden]

yeah but we did cover alot of ground of ff7 even though i never finished it i kept going on sites and learning about it.
it's really interesting and if only my game would work id go back on it but hey theres always the future PS2 version same with 8. dont spread it ok since some people will go belistic and call you retarded and that

[Destai]

Um...thanks for the warning.

[Shoden]

the reason i know alot is because i help my friend with his game and i watch him go through ff7 technically it's our file he named a character Spyke after me and you can guess lmao.

the warnings ok as ive gone through it

[Raistlin]

Ok. *wades through it all*


I think where alot of the questions about the Sephiroth clones and Cloud arise from is WHAT exactly IS a clone.
In the FF7 world, a Sephiroth clone is anyone injected with Sephiroth/Jenova cells in the hope that they will be more like him.


give it a rest people theres evidence to say that cloud is a human not a clone you see Tifa knows him from CHILDHOOD and they didnt clone sephiorth till around the start of the game, the supposed sephiorth clones are in fact survivors of the nibelheim incident who were captured and forced into similar experiments sephiorth was.
1. Hojo's been trying to clone Sephiroth for years and years and years.
2. There were no survivors of Nibelheim. More like, the failed Sephiroth clones were paid to act as normal Nibelheim citizens.


Cloud was sprayed with Mako. That makes him a Clone.
Nope. Jenova cell injections made him a clone.


If you know half as much of the game as you seem to think you yourself saw the hidden flashback where both Cloud and Zack were in Mako filled tubes in the basement of the Shinra mansion. That was the cloning process. Now pay attention. This will seriously mess with your head. Cloud went through the cloning process-This makes Cloud a Clone. This isnt theory. Its fact. If you dont agree you havent played the game. If you'd even bothered to read my post properly (if you read it at all) you'd see that Cloud lived a normal life in Nibelheim, Joined Shinra, Failed to become a soldier like sephiroth, got sent on a mission with sephiroth and a soldier named Zack, Completed the mission and witnessed Sephiroth go crazy, defeated Sephiroth , Him and Zack got put in Mako tubes and went through more Mako than average members of soldier but managed to escape before it had serios effects.
All Shinra guards are given mako - Zack and Cloud had already been through that. In the Shinra Mansion, they were being given Jenova cell injections.


you got the term of clone wrong as cloud lived a life and didnt look exactly like sephiroth. the so called clones were infact people who were captured and experimented on till they became a sephiroth look alike they were more of a clone than cloud was, cloud underwent the same experiments all members of SOLDIER did and if he survived he was recruited into SOLDIER.
Did you see the faces of any of the other clones? How do you know they were Sephy look-alikes?
Cloud was a clone, by the FF7 definition.


well Sephiroth may not of had mako in him but if he did fair enough.
Sephiroth definitely had mako in him.

[but2002]

>.<

Sephiroth saw JENOVA and realized he was created out of a DREADFUL expirement and began to hold as grudge against the Shin-ra. then later the world. He tried to destroy the world with meteor and JENOVA DID infuse with him but Sephiroths grudge was a LOT stronger than JENOVAS so he used JENOVAS power to control the other 'Brothers, Some of these "Brothers" Try to find their "Mother" two years AFTER the beating of sehiroth.

Two years later..... The Shin-Ra go to the northern crater in hope to find something and find nothing....then they run into a gang.. Names are Kadaj Loz and Yazoo. They are also brothers but they yearn for their mother. Jenova. And they take all people infected with Geostigma, (decendants of those infected with Jenova Cells.), totake revenge on the planet. Later Kadaj finds Jenovas head and infuses with it, now he didn't becoma a slave, He bacame Sephiroth, Remember, his will took over jenova.

He then says to Cloud, "I want to use this planet a a ship to travel to the darkness of this universe. To make a new planet, just like "Mother" did long ago.'

Cloud: "What will happen to this planet?"

Sephiroth: "Who knows?"

This answers the question on who was cloud chasing in the game.

It was REALLY Sephiroth.

[cloud_doll]

Cloud was definitely not a succesful clone, which is which is why he doesn't have a tatoo, right? All of the Sephiroth clones got a tatoo of what number they were.

So I gotta know, was Cloud really a failed experiment? And if not, was he really injected with Jenova cells? And if so, then why would they inject some guy with Jenova Cells if they weren't experimenting on him?

This game is so complicated.

Feion
What I think is that yes, cloud was a failed experiment. He and Zach were near death after the reacter, and were injected with Jenova cells to try to replace Sephiroth. But they escaped before anything worse happened.

[Shadow The Red XIII Thing]

Hers what I know.
1 All soldiers are infused with Mako and go through various things to be considered Soldier
2 Cloud was to weak to make it into soldier so he was amde a ShinRa grunt
3 As a grunt he met Zach and I dolized Sephiroth
YADA YADA YADA
4 Cloud and Zach are expiremented on By hojo
5 Zach shows no signs of reaction to the Jenova Cells while cloudgets sicka and such and such
Sorry if I reposted stuff

[rubah]

Hey kids--

We don't post in threads that are over a year old.

It just isn't done.

(you can restart this topic though if you like, but mang, let's let this topic slide into oblivion)