Oh Great Forums Readers...

[Rase]

Oh denizens of the Final Fantasy VII Forum, tell me, however you want, WHY Sephiroth is the Best Villian Ever in your opinion, because I just can't seem to grasp this notion. So I came seeking "help". :D

[Sepho]

I can't do that.

The thing about Sephiroth is that he isn't evil, or sinister in the least bit. He's almost content with anti-hero status; he believes he's bringing divine justice to the planet. He has a goal, and death at the hands of Sephiroth only happens under the circumstance that someone gets in the way of that goal.

Now Kefka, there's an insidious guy. There's no rhyme or reason for the things he does other than he feels like doing these things. "Hmm... poisoning the drinking supply of an entire community sounds fun."

"Sure, I'll try try to destroy the world just as every FF villain before and following me has attempted. What's my reason? Bah, don't need one! And I'll actually succeed to an extent!"

[Skyblade]

I actually feel a bit sorry for Sephiroth. He winds up being driven mad by his father, who has been totally crazy for a good few decades (and whom I really hate). Sephiroth thinks that he is the last remaining Cetra (besides Aeris), and that therefore he will rightfully inherit the world and destroy the pitiful creatures who stole it from his mother. The truth is that he was the child of Hojo and Lucrecia, with Jenova cells added to his genetic makeup. Even if he had been Jenova's son, he wouldn't have been the last (again, other than Aeris) of the Ancients, because Jenova was not an Ancient. This is quite clearly stated in the game (I can't give you the exact quote right now, but I will as soon as possible). Not only was Jenova not an Ancient, but he/she/it was an object of fear for the Ancients. Jenova, the calamity from the sky... I still wonder what would have happened if Sephiroth had learned the truth (say, from Professor Gast), instead of getting the twisted version of things that was the way Hojo saw the events. First he is deceived about his true family, then he stumbles upon Hojo's monster making project... What would have happened if he knew the truth? I think he could've been an awesome good guy. As it is, he became one of the most incredible RPG villains in existance. Sephiroth is always doing what he believes is right. Yes, he is insane to the point that he thinks that the right thing to do is to make himself a god, but it's still what he believes is right. He's not simply an insane villain. He's an insane villain who stands by his principles (however warped, twisted, insane, deluded, etc... they may be). I think this is a major point in his favor. Villains are all too often either insane to the point that they don't care what they're doing, or they are purposely being evil. Sephiroth is totally insane, but he does care about what he's doing. He's dishing out a heaping helping of Apocalyptic justice, and reclaiming his rightful place in the world as he's doing so. It's sad that he never learned who his real family was, or how he really came to be. He is a great character, in my humble opinion.

...Oh, yes, a couple things more. He dresses all in black, wears long white hair in such a way that it looks cool, and has a sword that can be used for pole-vaulting. Those (combined with my previous points) should be enough to firmly place him in the "RPG Villain Hall of Fame".

[Subtle]

I agree with the above poster on every count.

[Trumpet Thief]

chaos: He isn't the best.

[Rase]

chaos: He isn't the best.

Ya know, I'm thinkig this makes since to me. :D. Bt=ut I also figured, if so many people think he's "Greatest Villian Ever!!!" I must be missing something, since I haven't played FFVII since 1999.

[sephiroth9006]

whoever thinks that sephiroth is not the greatest is not very observant on RPG games or have played other RPGs that noone else likes in my opinion sephiroth is the greatest i think my user name kinda gives that away although someone else stole plain sephiroth so i had to use my msn name.

and the quote i'm using as my sig is a quote from sephiroth that i found some where (I can't quite remember where :p ).

sephiroth is one of the best thought out "villans" in an RPG ever mainly because he didn't go uncontrollably mental while trying to achive his goal.

kefka-I don't really know too much about him as i couldn't be bothered to buy FF6 for myself so i borrwed it and soon got bored of it but he seemed to be completly mental (as my mate who completeFF6 before i did told me everything and completly spoiled the ending for me)

sephiroth-always keeps saying about how he intends to free the planet and never goes completly mental and on top of that the fact that the sephiroth that you fight at the end of FFVII is only one of the 2 that where on the game makes you wonder what the one you didn't kill is doing.

seifer-Need i say anything

kuja-Was cool but went kinda insane after discovering that he was only a genome and he had aweaired dress sense what was with dressing like a woman.

seymour-*Ahum* Well you don't need to be told about seymour it was obvious when you found out that he killed his father that he was a complete loony and only ever went on about how hewas goingto be the new sin got very annoying after the first 3times you heard him.

well there my views not sure what everyone else thinks but sephiroth is the best and in my opinon will be the best for years to come as well.

[Ultima Shadow]

whoever thinks that sephiroth is not the greatest is not very observant on RPG games or have played other RPGs that noone else likes.

kefka-I don't really know too much about him as i couldn't be bothered to buy FF6 for myself so i borrwed it and soon got bored of it.

*laughs like a madman* :lol:

Well... if you want the villain to be a nice dude who just wants to achive his goal, then I would rather pick Saturos from GS1. he's more like a "villain" than Sephiroth, yet... his goal is to save his hometown and all his friends.

However... villains are SUPPOSED to be cruel bastards who you'll learn to hate. :cool:

I agree with TT and Dark_Paladin_Cecil. Sephiroth is just another "good" villain and far from being the "best" one.

[Cuchulainn]

I believe Sephiroth's strength of character came because he was the first (please correct me if I'm wrong) FF opponent, indeed one of the first video game opponents, that was not just 'Evil Because I AM Evil'. He had a humanity & reasons. He had a past, he actually had certain good points. You were able to see WHY he became your enemy. At one point, and this was a first for me, where I thought 'Poor Guy'.
Kefka was just an evil Shi because he he wanted to, therefore he didn't really stand out as a character & just became 'the evil guy you had to kill to complete the game'.
FFVII was the first to show that there isn't really 'an evil villain', George Bush should play this game actually, maybe he'd quote 'Evil-Dooers' a little less. People's views & actions get warped at a certain point in their lives that makes them do the unthinkable at times, there is no black & white, good & bad, evil & good. Life truely is not that simple, put the bible down & open your eyes.

[Ultima Shadow]

I believe Sephiroth's strength of character came because he was the first (please correct me if I'm wrong) FF opponent, indeed one of the first video game opponents, that was not just 'Evil Because I AM Evil'. He had a humanity & reasons. He had a past, he actually had certain good points. You were able to see WHY he became your enemy. At one point, and this was a first for me, where I thought 'Poor Guy'.
Kefka was just an evil Shi because he he wanted to, therefore he didn't really stand out as a character & just became 'the evil guy you had to kill to complete the game'.
FFVII was the first to show that there isn't really 'an evil villain', George Bush should play this game actually, maybe he'd quote 'Evil-Dooers' a little less. People's views & actions get warped at a certain point in their lives that makes them do the unthinkable at times, there is no black & white, good & bad, evil & good. Life truely is not that simple, put the bible down & open your eyes.
Correction: Kefka wasn't just evil because he wanted to be evil. He was a failed experiment and he had his "reasons". And anyone who thinks Kefka didn't stand out as a character must have been asleep when he/she played trough FFVI... if he/she ever played it at all.

Also... there IS evil. But exactly WHAT that's evil may be more of a matter of opinion. However... in my opinion, war is evil, torture is evil, rape is evil and eggs are evil etc. Yes, eggs ARE evil... and hotogs. Hotdogs and eggs are very, VERY evil!!! :cool: In a war there's no evil or good sides, that's true. But the war itself is evil (in my opinion).

[Rase]

Also, if you read all that's said about him, Zemus from FFIV had his own reasons for possessing Golbez and wanting to wipe out humanity. He believed that Lunarians, who had come to "Earth" long ago but had left to allow humans to advance more, were the rightful rulers of "The Blue Planet". Therefore he possessed Golbez, because he had Lunarian blood in him and also because he was more "evil" than Cecil, and had him gather the Crystals and activate the Giant of Babil to wipe out humanity and such.

Don't get me started on how many vidoegame villians before Sephiroth as a whole weren't "Evil Because They ARE Evil".

[ljkkjlcm9]

I believe Sephiroth's strength of character came because he was the first (please correct me if I'm wrong) FF opponent, indeed one of the first video game opponents, that was not just 'Evil Because I AM Evil'. He had a humanity & reasons. He had a past, he actually had certain good points. You were able to see WHY he became your enemy. At one point, and this was a first for me, where I thought 'Poor Guy'.
Kefka was just an evil Shi because he he wanted to, therefore he didn't really stand out as a character & just became 'the evil guy you had to kill to complete the game'.
FFVII was the first to show that there isn't really 'an evil villain', George Bush should play this game actually, maybe he'd quote 'Evil-Dooers' a little less. People's views & actions get warped at a certain point in their lives that makes them do the unthinkable at times, there is no black & white, good & bad, evil & good. Life truely is not that simple, put the bible down & open your eyes.

I don't care what happened even if he started as a good guy, I don't feel sorry for someone who wants to destroy the planet... it's really that simple.

Sephiroth wasn't that great in my opinion... I mean honestly, because he had a reason behind his actions he is the best villian. I don't agree with that. I mean, in that case the villian/villians in Tales of Symphonia were awesome because they all had their reasons too. I mean, everyone was doing what they thought was right in that game, and their ended up being THREE opposing groups. SO this whole, oh I feel bad for the guy cause he was tricked, thing isn't working for me.

Kefka, was definitely evil, and the thing was, he even knew he was evil. I mean honestly, how evil must you be to be able to wake up in the morning, being able to destroy any village or thing on the planet with this huge beam, and say, "Nope, not evil enough." HONESTLY PEOPLE!

THE JACKEL

[Skyblade]

Fine. So he's not the only villain to hold to their standards. But that only addresses part of the points I made. He is the only villain to have long white hair in a way that looks cool, wear all black, and have a sword that can be used for pole vaulting. Ha! :D (I'm kidding, BTW)

[Chris]

No one here has been slighty objective, everybody who likes FFVI the most is goin' to say that Kefka is the best and vice versa with FFVII.

[Rase]

Actually, I like both of those and think that neither is the best villian ever. :D

[Chris]

How dare you be so sneaky :mad2:

[ljkkjlcm9]

No one here has been slighty objective, everybody who likes FFVI the most is goin' to say that Kefka is the best and vice versa with FFVII.

Did I say kefka was the best? NO i don't think so. I was just stating that he is more evil than Sephiroth and personally a better villian. I actually do like the villians in Tales of Symphonia more, due to some of them fighting and knowing they're just trying to gain power, and others being manipulated and fighting with said person, thinking they're doing it for everyone...

THE JACKEL

[Rase]

Did I say kefka was the best? NO i don't think so. I was just stating that he is more evil than Sephiroth and personally a better villian. I actually do like the villians in Tales of Symphonia more, due to some of them fighting and knowing they're just trying to gain power, and others being manipulated and fighting with said person, thinking they're doing it for everyone...

*nods*

[Sepho]

No one here has been slighty objective, everybody who likes FFVI the most is goin' to say that Kefka is the best and vice versa with FFVII.

If TheAbominatrix were here, she would say that was a cop out answer. And she'd be right.

To make it clear, FF7 was the first FF I played, so I don't have a "First FF bias." I'm not sure hot that is relevant to the topic at hand, but I'm just using it as a disclaimer. So, going by your logic, seeing as how I like FF8 better than 7, I surely like Ultimecia better than I like Sephiroth? Not the case.

To be fair, I understand there's more to the Kefka vs. Sephiroth argument than the that. But to say that one can't possibly like FF6 better as a game and favor Sephy (and vice versa), is rubbish.

Do I think everyone is innocent of your accusation? No way. But it's still a generalisation. Personally, though I won't lie that I like FF6 better, I believe that Kefka is a better villain because I believe he's a better villain - it's that simple. I've given reasons in my first post as to why I think this way, and it seems that many people like Sephiroth more for the exact same reasons that I favor Kekfa (ie. Kekfa is evil without a cause, while Sephiroth believes he's being just). I have to admit that I never thought fans liked Seph for his lack of evilness, so I guess I learned something new today.

You also have to take into consideration that each villian is a major contributing factor to the players liking the game in the first place. Many fans like FF7 because they like Sephiroth, and the same can be said about Kefka and FF6. Although, I'd make the argument that there's much more in FF6 to keep the gamer happy in case they don't find the villain favorable.

[Cuchulainn]

I was merely stating things from how I seen them, it has been quite some time since I played VI, maybe 10 years so I deliberately stood myself to be corrected about Kefka being 'Evil because he WAS evil'. Maybe then I just didn't see it any.
As to the person complaining about there being no objectivity, isn't that what this whole post is about? YOUR opinion on a chacacter? It wouldn't work any other way. I seen it as someone who doesn't really like Sephiroth asking people and/or 'fanboys' why THEY do. I fail to see where Objectivity has a place here.
And lastly, to me, the word 'evil' to me is a cop out used to describe anything powerful that opposes you & you don't understand. It's a word coined by the bible a lot to describe anything opposing it. Hilter was 'Evil', Bin Laden is 'Evil', Stalin is 'Evil' etc etc. It's how we are able to pigeon-hole things & make our objectives easier on our conscience, 'We're killing these Germans to stop the Evil' or 'Killing these Iraqi's to stop the Evil'. So no Evil only exists because of our belief in it, there is only right choices & wrong choices, good Judgement & bad. If tested, you would have found that the most 'evil' of the world's populous were infact suffering from come sort of psychosis. Is a mentally ill person 'Evil'? I'll leave that up to your better judgement.

[m4tt]

Kefka > Sephiroth on all levels. Come on.

He killed almost everyone in a castle with poison, he betrayed his leader and killed his former general. He destroyed the entire world and wreaked havoc for over a year before he was finally stopped!


whoever thinks that sephiroth is not the greatest is not very observant on RPG games

I'm sorry but I have to do this: LOL You call other people unobservant of RPG games and you don't even know anything about Kefka. Way to include yourself in your own insult. :)

[Chris]

If TheAbominatrix were here, she would say that was a cop out answer. And she'd be right.

To make it clear, FF7 was the first FF I played, so I don't have a "First FF bias." I'm not sure hot that is relevant to the topic at hand, but I'm just using it as a disclaimer. So, going by your logic, seeing as how I like FF8 better than 7, I surely like Ultimecia better than I like Sephiroth? Not the case.

To be fair, I understand there's more to the Kefka vs. Sephiroth argument than the that. But to say that one can't possibly like FF6 better as a game and favor Sephy (and vice versa), is rubbish.

Do I think everyone is innocent of your accusation? No way. But it's still a generalisation. Personally, though I won't lie that I like FF6 better, I believe that Kefka is a better villain because I believe he's a better villain - it's that simple. I've given reasons in my first post as to why I think this way, and it seems that many people like Sephiroth more for the exact same reasons that I favor Kekfa (ie. Kekfa is evil without a cause, while Sephiroth believes he's being just). I have to admit that I never thought fans liked Seph for his lack of evilness, so I guess I learned something new today.

You also have to take into consideration that each villian is a major contributing factor to the players liking the game in the first place. Many fans like FF7 because they like Sephiroth, and the same can be said about Kefka and FF6. Although, I'd make the argument that there's much more in FF6 to keep the gamer happy in case they don't find the villain favorable.

I guess your right. I was a little fast with my statement.

[Sepho]

I wasn't trying to prove anything, and just in case it came off that way, I didn't mean to be harsh, and I had no ill feelings.

I'm only trying to express that there's no right or wrong when it comes to the subject of opinion, and no one should be prompted to justify their reasoning. Although, I guess that's kind of what forums are for. On the other hand, posters should want to express their opinions instead of being called on them.

EDIT: OMG Brigitte Nielson.

[Masamune·1600]

Yes, Sephiroth is the best villain ever. This does not mean he is the most evil villain ever. This goes to Kefka, with a couple FFT characters sharing second place. However, as a character, Sephiroth is far superior to Kefka. He has more depth to his story than virtually any villain, yet remains incredibly enigmatic. Was he evil, manipulated, or insane? I think most people would tend toward the third, although I feel that he is a fusion of all three elements. Sephiroth's story was complex and engrossing, and one can't but help feel some pity for what happened to him. The essence of it, really, depends more on Jenova than on Hojo. I've always felt the most loaded line of the game was Jenova's only one: "You are a puppet." While this finished Sephiroth's statement to Cloud at the end of the first disc, I like to think that it was directed at Sephiroth as well as Cloud. The insidious influence of those cells....who knows, we might not have had a story if Shinra had a bioethics division to crack down on Hojo. ;)

Okay, ramblings aside, Sephiroth motives were at once completely lucid and totally opaque. He had a deeply involved and moving backstory, and a goal at once diabolical and understandable. He manipulated behind the scenes, yet may have been manipulated himself by two very different forces. Thus, in some ways, he mimics Shakespeare's Macbeth; you never can really decide how much of it was his fault.

Oh, yeah, and then there was that incident at the end of Disc One at the Water Altar. That might have had something to do with the "best villain" designation. Just a little bit.

[Doomgaze]

They're all sexually attracted to him. Even the guys.

...Especially the guys.

[Rostum]

Sephiroth, a tragic hero, perhaps?

[Yuffie514]

both Kefka and Sephiroth are madmen :chuckle: -- cool ones at that :D . every game has one of them :razz: , these ppl who can't let go of their grudges :chuckle: and they need to be punished :chop: .

[ravenzero2000]

Sephiroth is the greatest villan in FF. Don't question this divine rank!

[DocFrance]

Oh denizens of the Final Fantasy VII Forum, tell me, however you want, WHY Sephiroth is the Best Villian Ever in your opinion, because I just can't seem to grasp this notion.
Sephiroth, the greatest villain EVAR? Clearly, none of you have played Suikoden II. Luca Blight even gives Kefka a run for his money.

[Doomgaze]

Luca does Kefka better than Kefka ever could, and Yuber does Sephiroth better than Sephiroth ever could :)

[ravenzero2000]

All I'm hearing from DocFrance and Doom...dude (sorry, forgot your name) is nothing more than BLASHPHEMY!! IF YOU DO NOT THINK SEPHIROTH IS THE GREATEST VILLAN IN FF THEN YOU MUST BE EXILED TO THE FAR REACHES OF KNOWN SPACE! :mad2: ....sorry..i just think you guys are wrong....<.<...>.>...

[Rase]

Sephiroth, the greatest villain EVAR? Clearly, none of you have played Suikoden II. Luca Blight even gives Kefka a run for his money.

I'm guessing that was directed at me, due to the quote, but apparently you either didn't read it all or I didn't make it clear. I believe I said "I just can't seem to grasp this notion", which is true for me. It's just that he is so popular/liked that I was curious about why people like him so much if I don't see anything to great about him. I was hoping to see how they based thier opinions.

If it wasn't directed at me, just ignore all of that.

[Wiegrahf42]

Meh, I felt that Id from Xenogears was an evolved version of Sephy.

[DocFrance]

I'm guessing that was directed at me, due to the quote, but apparently you either didn't read it all or I didn't make it clear. I believe I said "I just can't seem to grasp this notion", which is true for me. It's just that he is so popular/liked that I was curious about why people like him so much if I don't see anything to great about him. I was hoping to see how they based thier opinions.

If it wasn't directed at me, just ignore all of that.
Nah, that wasn't directed at you. It was more directed at all the drooling Sephiroth fanboys out there (not that Luca Blight fanboys are much better) like this one:


All I'm hearing from DocFrance and Doom...dude (sorry, forgot your name) is nothing more than BLASHPHEMY!! IF YOU DO NOT THINK SEPHIROTH IS THE GREATEST VILLAN IN FF THEN YOU MUST BE EXILED TO THE FAR REACHES OF KNOWN SPACE! ....sorry..i just think you guys are wrong....<.<...>.>...

And you're right, there is nothing great about him. Most fans just drool over him because he has a really big... sword.

[Rase]

Ahh, okay, thanks for the clarification. Fanboys in general are usually not to enjoyable.

[Monol]

Sepherioth is an amazing villan....not the best though..cant say kefka is either...havent played suikoden II yet but i have played 1 and 3 and must say Yuber and luc are amazing but anyways....X death is by far the greatest villan...he has the most incredible back story and personality...its truly amazing how somone can be that deep in such a cruel way...(this is sarcasim by the way...except the suikoden part :p ) yes X death definatly villan of the centuary

[ravenzero2000]

Very funny DocFrance, but you just assume the reason that everyone likes Sephiroth is that he has a big sword. The reason I like him is because he is 1. Evil, 2. always so eeriely calm, and 3. he is one tough S.O.B., now ive played most every RPG out there and i have to say that Sephy takes the cake. You're just trying to be differant just to be one that does not conform, well doing what you want is not conforming to anyone but you. Does that help any?

[DocFrance]

I see my humor is lost on you.

[Doomgaze]

(not that Luca Blight fanboys are much better)

READ: Aaron sucks.


I'm just saying Luca's far better at playing the deranged lunatic than Kefka is. His, erm, brother-in-law was a better antagonist, in my opinion. So was the, uh, Masked Bishop.

Kefka was still a good villain though, just not as good as Suikoden's villains. FF7 had its share of good ones too, but they were in Rufus and the Turks, not that overrated prettyboy Sephiroth.

[ravenzero2000]

I see my humor is lost on you.

I said "Very funny" in my last post...yea it was sarcastic, but still.

P.S. BREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


overrated prettyboy Sephiroth. ?

Overrated? No, everyone just recognizes that he is a great villan.

HAHA! GO NADER!

Please use the edit/delete button. ~ Leeza

[Ultima Shadow]

The reason I like him is because he is 1. Evil, 2. always so eeriely calm, and 3. he is one tough S.O.B., now ive played most every RPG out there and i have to say that Sephy takes the cake. You're just trying to be differant just to be one that does not conform, well doing what you want is not conforming to anyone but you. Does that help any?
Evil?

Well, atleast 90% of the other FF villains are much more evil than Sephiroth.

Oh and you think you've played almost every RPG out there? Well then... please, name the ones you've played. I really doubt that you've even been close to playing all RPGs out there. :greenie:

Exactly what is the last lines suposed to mean? I don't really get it... :greenie:

[Rase]

You're just trying to be differant just to be one that does not conform, well doing what you want is not conforming to anyone but you. Does that help any?

Why, if someone doesn't agree with yuo or some other people, must they be non-conformist? People DO have different opinions ya know? They is almost never a right answer to every question. Just cause a bunch of fanboys like someone doesn't mean those who don't are doing so to be different. Granted, that is a possibility, but the majority just DON'T THINK HE'S THAT GREAT.

[ravenzero2000]

the majority just DON'T THINK HE'S THAT GREAT.

What are you talking about? Most everyone loves Sephiroth and think he is the greatest and this ive heard from literally hundreds of people.

As for you Ultima Shadow, to list all the RPG's ive played would take forever. But I'm on it.

[Rase]

Sorry, I must have not worded that correctly, I meant that the majority of people who DO NOT think Sephiroth is that great think that for thier own reasons, not because they want to be different and non-conformist. Is it clear now?

[DocFrance]

Luca Blight is the badass that Square wishes Sephiroth could be but isn't. You only need to see the "Die, pig!" scene to know what I mean. Luca Blight killed thousands of people without remorse, and it takes an entire army just to kill him. And he doesn't have anything like magical abilities or Jenova cells to unnaturally enhance him. He's just that badassed.

[Palindrome]

Kefka was the worst villain ever. His theme music sucked @$$. Now One Winged Angle is the best final boss music ever. I don't think anything could beat that. It is true that Kefka did succeed in destroying most of the world and turned himself into the focal point of all magic in the world and even had a cult worshiping him. And he had a 17 minute long boss theme song that was darn good for SNES. But Seph attacked you with calculus. How many villains attack you with math?

[Dormos]

Ah, math... the greatest evil of them all...

Raven, if someone with a different opinion was non-conformist, would someone with the same opinion be a mindless sheep/poser/jumping on the bandwagon/etc., by the same token?

And I don't think that Sephiroth was the best villain ever, but he was a darn good character. He had a great story, heck, FFVII had one of the best stories in a video game, but that really revolved mostly around Sephiroth. I think that if you trace it enough, Sephiroth's character and backstory could be considered as the element that made FFVII stand out from a lot of other RPG's.

And just a half-random thought, I think it'd be a cool idea if they did make a game where Sephiroth found out the truth about his parents, but after summoning Meteor or something, so you could play him, trying to stop it.
Or just a totally different story. I'd just like to play as Sephiroth.

[Ultima Shadow]

Kefka was the worst villain ever. His theme music sucked @$$.
Incorrect. He's a great villain and his theme music is great in every way.

Oh, and I agree with Dormos at most points.

[ravenzero2000]

Raven, if someone with a different opinion was non-conformist, would someone with the same opinion be a mindless sheep/poser/jumping on the bandwagon/etc., by the same token?

I LIKE SHEEP!! YAY! SHEEPY SHEEPY SHEEPY!

And I wasnt calling everyone with a differant opinion a stupid person trying to be a non-conformist...just that guy I called a non-conformist.

[Ultima Shadow]

I still don't belive that you've played most RPGs out there. :)

[Flamethrower]

No one here has been slighty objective, everybody who likes FFVI the most is goin' to say that Kefka is the best and vice versa with FFVII.

I liked FFVII more than FFVI, but Kefka is a much better villain than Sephiroth.


Kefka was the worst villain ever. His theme music sucked @$$.

Kefka had the best villain theme music ever. It was so sinister sounding.

[DocFrance]

Also, Kefka definitely had a better laugh than Sephiroth...

Wopwopwopwopwop!!!

[ravenzero2000]

I still don't belive that you've played most RPGs out there.

I have no life and love RPGs, why is it so hard to believe?

[Doomgaze]

Because you still think Sephiroth is the best. Clearly your horizons are not very broad :)

[Ultima Shadow]

I have no life and love RPGs, why is it so hard to believe?

Because you still think Sephiroth is the best. Clearly your horizons are not very broad :)
Especially the fact that one of the reasons you liked Sephiroth is because you think he's evil when he's, in fact, one of the nicest villains I've seen in an RPG so far.

Even thinking that you've played almost all RPGs just means that you "probably" don't know what an awful load of RPGs that actually exists. I've played "many" RPGs but not even half-way to being close to have played what could be considered almost all RPGs that exists. There's more of them than you think, really. :greenie:

And the sad part is that some of the most genious RPGs are extremely underrated and not-so-well known.

I don't think that Sephiroth is a bad villain. Really. But I've seen MANY who are much better.

[Camanche]

To me, the difference between Sephiroth and Kefka, when it comes to being 'vilians', is that Sephiroth wasn't much of a villian by what most people consider a villian to be.

Sephiroth did not do most of the 'evil things' he did in the game by his own free will and choice. If I smacked you across the face with a bat, does that make the bat evil, or me? :D

While I must agree that Kefka was a better villian when it comes to doing 'villainous stuff' but I think Sephiroth was better when it came to being a living, breathing, fleshed out character. He was a real person and a real human being- one many could actually sympathize with.

On the other hand, some could say that you could sympathize with Kefka as well. I see it on this level: If someone was forced to take part in an experiment that had negative effects on their sanity, and caused them to kill people without ryhme or reason, then, yeah, sure, you could feel bad for them. But I think your predominant concern would be to kill or subdue the crazy bastard who's killing other people.

Kefka was stark, raving mad and had no human motivations behind his truly evil actions. Before Sephiroth was taken over by Jenova, he had motivation behind most of his actions. (Though the killings of Nibelheim could be considered a result in his loss of sanity before Jenova took over his mind. I'm not sure if Jenova was effecting Sephiroth at this time.)

[Rase]

But how often do people want to sympathize with the villian in a game? I, for one, like a villian who has a lot of character and style, but still does stuff in the game that makes me think "Okay, you, you need to die". But maybe that's just me.

[Ultima Shadow]

But how often do people want to sympathize with the villian in a game? I, for one, like a villian who has a lot of character and style, but still does stuff in the game that makes me think "Okay, you, you need to die". But maybe that's just me.
I completely agree. The problem with Golden Sun is that you actually like the villain more than the main character. In the end, you may actually feel bad for killing the villain (I did). And that's just... wrong. I love the Golden Sun serie, but it's missing something... a true villain. Really... there's none you could actually call "villain" in that game.

[ravenzero2000]

Before I say anything else about anything I have to ask...Ultima Shadow...what the hell is with you and Ruby wearing underwear?...that just weird and wrong.

[Camanche]

But how often do people want to sympathize with the villian in a game? I, for one, like a villian who has a lot of character and style, but still does stuff in the game that makes me think "Okay, you, you need to die". But maybe that's just me.

Heh, true. Hence Kefka portraying the 'model villian' better than Sephiroth does, in my opinion. Sephiroth had a lot of character and style, but once you understand the whole plot, you may not want to kill him as much anymore because it is possible to sympathize with him (and because another villian has been shown to be the true initiator of all the 'evil actions'). But then again, I like Sephiroth a lot because I like games that make you look at who you are hunting down or trying to stop, and wonder how much they really deserved to be skewered atop a rather pointy stick.

Sure, Sephiroth did a lot of terrible deeds (The War of Wutai and Nibelheim), but other than those two instances, he's being used as Jenova's puppet. (Heck, the Wutai War is about orders given and objectives that need to be completed, not necessarily evil deeds. We don't know a lot about Sephiroth's actions during the war, and he was born to be a soldier his whole life anyway.) So my 'bat analoy' is the only way I can really think describe it. Is the bat evil, or me? :D

[Rostum]

I like to think of Sephiroth as a tragic hero, rather than the greatest villian. I'm not sure what the greatest villian would be, as I don't play loads of RPG games, just Final Fantasy and those others that hang outside it.

Tragic hero, I think, because he was born into his fate unwillingly - still considered a hero to many until he went insane. IMHO

[Raistlin]

All I'm hearing from DocFrance and Doom...dude (sorry, forgot your name) is nothing more than BLASHPHEMY!! IF YOU DO NOT THINK SEPHIROTH IS THE GREATEST VILLAN IN FF THEN YOU MUST BE EXILED TO THE FAR REACHES OF KNOWN SPACE! ....sorry..i just think you guys are wrong....<.<...>.>...
(I'm saying this a lot today) Oh...my...god...


Very funny DocFrance, but you just assume the reason that everyone likes Sephiroth is that he has a big sword. The reason I like him is because he is 1. Evil, 2. always so eeriely calm, and 3. he is one tough S.O.B., now ive played most every RPG out there and i have to say that Sephy takes the cake. You're just trying to be differant just to be one that does not conform, well doing what you want is not conforming to anyone but you. Does that help any?
1. How is he evil? You want to see pure evil, try Luca Blight or hell, even Kefka. Now, as Doomy and Doc said, Luca Blight(or Kefka) fanboys aren't much better than Sephiroth fanboys, but at least the former were actually evil. The reason I, personally, like Sephiroth is that he's a sympathetic villain. You're meant to feel pity towards him, if you actually have a freakin' clue what's going on during the game. You're also supposed to be somewhat in awe of him, not because of his "evilness," but because of his apparent limitless knowledge.

2. He's eerily calm because he's INSANE. He literally lost his mind. He doesn't bottle his emotions; he's just quite literally incapable of them. Remember when he tells Cloud "stop pretending that you're sad"? That's because he literally doesn't think sadness is a plausible emotion. Again, you're meant to pity him for that.

3. Tough S.O.B.? He's one of the eesiest bosses in any RPG ever.

You're just a fanboy who likes him because of his looks. Yes, Sephiroth is very much an "overrated prettyboy."



I'm just saying Luca's far better at playing the deranged lunatic than Kefka is. His, erm, brother-in-law was a better antagonist, in my opinion. So was the, uh, Masked Bishop.
Agreed. Luca's much better than Kefka. Luca, admittedly, is the best "pure evil" villain in any RPG. However, there are much better overall villains(especially from Lunar SSSC).

EDIT:


Because you still think Sephiroth is the best. Clearly your horizons are not very broad
Absolutely. Do yourself a favor and play Suikoden II and Lunar SSSC. Hell, and FFT.

[Luthien Rogue]

Remember when he tells Cloud "stop pretending that you're sad"? That's because he literally doesn't think sadness is a plausible emotion. Again, you're meant to pity him for that.

He was trying to convince Cloud that he wasn't the real Cloud. Telling him that he was a puppet and therefore has no emotions:


Sephiroth
"Ha, ha, ha...... Stop acting as if you were sad."
"There's no need to act as though you're angry either."

(He rises into the air, looking down at Cloud.)

Sephiroth
"Because, Cloud. You are..."

(He rockets, spinning, high up into the air. His body becomes a tiny green
sphere, which lands at Cloud's feet. The screen glows red. Cloud covers
his eyes.)

(Boss battle with Jenova-LIFE)

(The screen goes black.)

Jenova
"Because, you are...... a puppet."

Cloud
"I'm...... a puppet?"

Sadness not a plausible emotion? Sephiroth has felt sadness many times before. Like the time he found the notes in the mansion's basement. I'd say he was pretty upset, and angry...

Anyway, you people need to stop telling each other what to think. :P Explain why you like or dislike a certain character but don't tell someone that the don't like the right character or that their opinion is wrong. O_o That's just weird. o_O

[DocFrance]

Absolutely. Do yourself a favor and play Suikoden II and Lunar SSSC. Hell, and FFT.
I didn't know Hell was a RPG. Sounds pretty bitchin'.

[Monol]

[QUOTE=Doomgaze]READ: Aaron sucks.

Who!! harsh :( was that directed to me?

[Doomgaze]

Yes. I may not have even the foggiest idea who you are and have never seen a single post by you, but yes, I was referring to you.

[Raistlin]

He was trying to convince Cloud that he wasn't the real Cloud. Telling him that he was a puppet and therefore has no emotions:
No, he thought that Cloud was "created" the same way he thought that he, himself was, and therefore couldn't feel real emotions. I know what was said; I've played the games literally over a dozen times. Sephiroth viewed himself as incapable of sadness, and consequently thought Cloud was also incapable of such a display of emotions.


Sadness not a plausible emotion? Sephiroth has felt sadness many times before. Like the time he found the notes in the mansion's basement. I'd say he was pretty upset, and angry...
Anger is hardly sadness. You said "many times." Name one time in the game that Sephiroth was actually saddened. Psycopathic anger does not even remotely construe sadness. And notice also that after he consigned himself to Jenova, he stopped displaying even anger.


Anyway, you people need to stop telling each other what to think. :P Explain why you like or dislike a certain character but don't tell someone that the don't like the right character or that their opinion is wrong. O_o That's just weird. o_O
All opinions are not equal. Some opinions are based on logic and rational thought; others are based on fanboyish charms.


I didn't know Hell was a RPG. Sounds pretty bitchin'.
First off, I hate you. Secondly, it doesn't make sense - notice the comma after "Hell?" :p

EDIT: Doomy, now now, be nice. Newbies don't know that anybody at a message board of 8,000 or so members could have the same first name.

[Monol]

Yes. I may not have even the foggiest idea who you are and have never seen a single post by you, but yes, I was referring to you.


ohhh well when ya put it that way :D as long as i now know the truth.....my this world is so cruel...yet so beautiful :cool: *mexican music plays*

[Ultima Shadow]

Before I say anything else about anything I have to ask...Ultima Shadow...what the hell is with you and Ruby wearing underwear?...that just weird and wrong.
You have absolutely no good taste when it comes to sexy girls. Ruby is so HOT that she even lives in a desert. :cool:

[Luthien Rogue]

No, he thought that Cloud was "created" the same way he thought that he, himself was,

I know... I never said he didn't. O_o


and therefore couldn't feel real emotions. I know what was said; I've played the games literally over a dozen times. Sephiroth viewed himself as incapable of sadness, and consequently thought Cloud was also incapable of such a display of emotions.

But Sephiroth had felt sadness before. Sephiroth would've been in his late 20s to early 30s before going crazy. :mad: Are you telling me that he never felt sad during that time? It was AFTER the Nibelheim http://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gifhttp://forums.eyesonff.com/images/smilies/rpg_009.gife that Sephiroth started to believe that he was incapable of those emotions.


Anger is hardly sadness. You said "many times." Name one time in the game that Sephiroth was actually saddened. Psycopathic anger does not even remotely construe sadness. And notice also that after he consigned himself to Jenova, he stopped displaying even anger.

I'm talking about BEFORE the the game.

Anyway, it depends on how you interpret things:


Sephiroth
"It's your first time back to your hometown in a long time,
right?"
"So how does it feel?"
"I wouldn't know because I don't have a hometown..."

I would say Sephy's being sympathetic, and during the last line is showing sadness.


All opinions are not equal. Some opinions are based on logic and rational thought; others are based on fanboyish charms.

Come on... telling someone they what character from a video game they should like? :P So they like a character 'cause he's a pretty boy? So? I think we will all survive. :P

[ravenzero2000]

You have absolutely no good taste when it comes to sexy girls. Ruby is so HOT that she even lives in a desert. a desert.

And I thought George Bush was stupid...that comment just creeps me out....i can see it now...Ruby with horribly mutated kids with Ultima Shadow..<shudder>



Absolutely. Do yourself a favor and play Suikoden II and Lunar SSSC. Hell, and FFT.

Okay, Suikoden II wasn't all that great and the storyline was weak with not so cool characters...Now Lunar SSSC, that freakin ruled. But it fails to produce a better villan than Sephiroth. And FFT just plain sucked.



You're just a fanboy who likes him because of his looks. Yes, Sephiroth is very much an "overrated prettyboy."

Really? Well hows about you actually think about what you say before you say it. Yes, I am a boy...and i like Sephiroth (not in that way that some perverted people are thinking of), but i do not like him for his looks. I mean cmon people, he is hands down just the greatest villan of all time and has the biggest fan base to prove it.

Just because I think he is a better villan than all the rest, doesnt make me a "fanboy".

[Ultima Shadow]

And I thought George Bush was stupid...that comment just creeps me out....i can see it now...Ruby with horribly mutated kids with Ultima Shadow..<shudder>
Bah, like I said... you've got a bad taste for girls! :rolleyes2 *searches the web for Ruby Weapon hentai.*


Okay, Suikoden II wasn't all that great and the storyline was weak with not so cool characters...Now Lunar SSSC, that freakin ruled. But it fails to produce a better villan than Sephiroth. And FFT just plain sucked.
Now, how should I put it? It seems like you've got a pretty... "different" RPG taste as well. But whatever... :greenie:


I mean cmon people, he is hands down just the greatest villan of all time and has the biggest fan base to prove it.

Well, can you just tell me clearly once again... WHY is Sephiroth "the best"? You said he was "evil"... and this (and the stuff in the quote above) really makes me wonder if you actually pay attention to and really understands the story of the RPGs you play?

Like Raistlin said:
"1. How is he evil? You want to see pure evil, try Luca Blight or hell, even Kefka. Now, as Doomy and Doc said, Luca Blight(or Kefka) fanboys aren't much better than Sephiroth fanboys, but at least the former were actually evil. The reason I, personally, like Sephiroth is that he's a sympathetic villain. You're meant to feel pity towards him, if you actually have a freakin' clue what's going on during the game. You're also supposed to be somewhat in awe of him, not because of his "evilness," but because of his apparent limitless knowledge.

2. He's eerily calm because he's INSANE. He literally lost his mind. He doesn't bottle his emotions; he's just quite literally incapable of them. Remember when he tells Cloud "stop pretending that you're sad"? That's because he literally doesn't think sadness is a plausible emotion. Again, you're meant to pity him for that.

3. Tough S.O.B.? He's one of the eesiest bosses in any RPG ever."

Are you able to counter this, or can you, please, tell me some other reasons to "why" he's the best villain? :greenie:

Edit: Sorry, ravenzero+numbers but I just wanted to ask you another thing... do you have any sense of humor?

[Erdrick Holmes]

What the hell? Flik and Viktor from Suikoden II were awesome. How can it have a weak story? It had the best one in the series.

[Destination0]

Sephiroth this...Sephiroth that...whatever...
he is one of the coolest character but not the best villain by any means...
lucka blight was nice...kefka was awesome...so was kuja...
moreover xenogears had whole collection of the best villains in one game...

[Erdrick Holmes]

I wouldn't call any of the antagonists in Xenogears villians (except for Miang) but you won't find out until the end of the game.

[Raistlin]

But Sephiroth had felt sadness before. Sephiroth would've been in his late 20s to early 30s before going crazy. Are you telling me that he never felt sad during that time? It was AFTER the Nibelheim e that Sephiroth started to believe that he was incapable of those emotions.
He was approximately 30. And whether he did or did not was irrelevent - after he went insane, he thought that those emotions, for those like him anyway, were illusions.


I would say Sephy's being sympathetic, and during the last line is showing sadness.
First off, that's extremely subjective. Also, it's completely irrelevent since the scene you quoted was before he lost his mind.


Come on... telling someone they what character from a video game they should like? :P So they like a character 'cause he's a pretty boy? So? I think we will all survive. :P
I couldn't care less who they like. It's people who deny the fact that they adore Sephiroth for his looks and instead claim because "He's evil!" that get on my nerves.


Okay, Suikoden II wasn't all that great and the storyline was weak with not so cool characters...Now Lunar SSSC, that freakin ruled. But it fails to produce a better villan than Sephiroth. And FFT just plain sucked.
You have lost all respect from me as far as RPGs go. Your opinion no longer counts. Ghaleon was the best villain in any RPG ever, and Luca Blight's a helluva lot better than Sephiroth.


I mean cmon people, he is hands down just the greatest villan of all time and has the biggest fan base to prove it.
Following that logic, Internet Explorer is the best internet browser.

[Camanche]

I always assumed that Sephiroth told Cloud to "stop acting as if he's sad" because he thought that Cloud was a puppet, so therefore didn't consider CLOUD to be capable of emotion.


Sephiroth: Stop acting as if you were sad. There's no need to
act as though you're angry either. Because, Cloud. You are...

Jenova: Because, you are...... a puppet.


So I really don't think Sephiroth reprimanding Cloud for showing emotion has anything to do with how Sephiroth himself feels emotion, or a lack of. It's because he thinks of Cloud as a puppet, not a being capable of emotion.

And for the sake of arguement, assume Sephiroth truly thought himself incapable of saddness. Okay fine. I still don't get how that relates to what he said to Cloud. Sephiroth's an intelligent being. Why would he assume because he doesn't feel saddness that no one else feels sad as well? :-/ Just doesn't seem to make sense to me at least...

[Erdrick Holmes]

Sephiroth is way too overrated. He barely does anything besides Destroy Nibelhiem Kefka was much cooler then him, he actually is evil. Best villian ever is probably Bison from Street Fighter, he's literally an evil that wouldn't die.

[Raistlin]

So I really don't think Sephiroth reprimanding Cloud for showing emotion has anything to do with how Sephiroth himself feels emotion, or a lack of. It's because he thinks of Cloud as a puppet, not a being capable of emotion.
What did Sephiroth think he was? A test-tube baby from Jenova. What did Sephiroth think Cloud was? A weaker test-tube baby from Jenova. Sephiroth thought of himself just as incapable of emotion as he thought Cloud was. It doesn't take much of a leap of logic to realize this.


And for the sake of arguement, assume Sephiroth truly thought himself incapable of saddness. Okay fine. I still don't get how that relates to what he said to Cloud. Sephiroth's an intelligent being. Why would he assume because he doesn't feel saddness that no one else feels sad as well? Just doesn't seem to make sense to me at least...
Argh, read what I've posted. He thought that he and Cloud were both nothing remotely human. He told Cloud to "stop pretending like you're sad" and was surprised by the display of emotion because he didn't think that CLOUD could feel emotions(not relating this to anyone else, just Cloud and Sephiroth.

[Camanche]

Sephiroth knew he was created by fairly artificial means, yes, but he also sees himself as the "chosen one", and an up-and-coming god, not some mere puppet to Jenova. He sees himself as the offspring of Jenova, and for some time, a Cetra as well.

Sorry, I wasn't aiming my post at you in particular, I just honestly do not think Sephiroth sees himself as incapable of emotion. The only impression that I got from the game concerning this was that Sephiroth saw Cloud as useless, and inferior. I didn't see what he said as an indication on his state of emotional receptiveness or what not.

Gahhh, I can see how I'm being a little frustrating. I'm honestly having trouble explaining what I mean at the moment for some reason. :O_O:

[Raistlin]

Sephiroth knew he was created by fairly artificial means, yes, but he also sees himself as the "chosen one", and an up-and-coming god, not some mere puppet to Jenova. He sees himself as the offspring of Jenova, and for some time, a Cetra as well.
I agree...just what does that have to do with anything?


Sorry, I wasn't aiming my post at you in particular, I just honestly do not think Sephiroth sees himself as incapable of emotion. The only impression that I got from the game concerning this was that Sephiroth saw Cloud as useless, and inferior. I didn't see what he said as an indication on his state of emotional receptiveness or what not.
...The part where Sephiroth questions Cloud's ability to feel sadness doesn't blatantly scream that fact out to you?

[JayDee]

As long as a villian is better than Golbez it doesn't really matter.

Sephiroth is the best because of his story.

[Squall of SeeD]

Sorry, I wasn't aiming my post at you in particular, I just honestly do not think Sephiroth sees himself as incapable of emotion. The only impression that I got from the game concerning this was that Sephiroth saw Cloud as useless, and inferior. I didn't see what he said as an indication on his state of emotional receptiveness or what not.

...The part where Sephiroth questions Cloud's ability to feel sadness doesn't blatantly scream that fact out to you?

To me it doesn't. The only time we find Sephiroth speaking of his emotions, he's saying he doesn't have a reason to be sad and seems elated, something that certainly qualifies as an emotion:


Cloud
"What about MY sadness!? My family... friends... The sadness of
having my hometown taken away from me!?"
"It's the same as your sadness!"

(Sephiroth stands by Jenova, his arms raised, holding his sword high.)

Sephiroth
"Ha, ha, ha... my sadness? What do I have to be sad about?"
"I am the chosen one. I have been chosen to be the leader of this Planet."
"I have orders to take this planet back from you stupid people
for the Cetra. What am I supposed to be sad about?"

What the Sephiroth form says to Cloud in the City of the Ancients only seemed like one of many attempts at taunting him to me and setting him up for the massive assault of self-doubt he/she/it would render unto him later. Granted, that's only my interpretation of that particular event, but the words that the Sephiroth form within the Northern Crater uses against Cloud suggests that he was telling him that he was something inferior and couldn't feel emotions as a result of that:


Cloud
"Sephiroth! I know you're listening! I know what you want to say!"

(He shakes his head)

Cloud
"That I wasn't in Nibelheim five years ago."
"That's it, isn't it?"

(A blink of white, a gong of a church bell, and Sephiroth is there.)

Sephiroth
"I see you finally understand."

Cloud
"What you are trying to say is that you want to confuse me,
right?"
"But... even making me see those things won't affect me."
"I remember it all. The heat of the fire... the pain in my
body... and in my heart!"

(Sephiroth shakes his head grimly.)

Sephiroth
"Oh, is that so?"
"You are just a puppet... you have no heart... and cannot feel
any pain..."
"How can there be any meaning in the memory of such a being?"
"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is
the illusion."

(Cloud shrugs. He walks right up to Sephiroth.)

Sephiroth
"...Do you understand?"

Cloud
"I don't want to understand."

(He turns away from him.)

Cloud
"But, I want to ask you one thing. Why... why are you doing
this?"

(A blink of white. Sephiroth appears in front of Cloud, between Tifa and
Cid, his arms raised. They run to stand beside Cloud.)

Sephiroth
"Ha, ha, ha......"
"I want to take you back to your real self."
"The one who gave me the Black Materia that day..."
"Who would have ever thought a failed experiment would prove so useful?"
"Hojo would die if he knew."

(Cloud steps forward)

Cloud
"Hojo!? What does he have to do with me!?"

(Sephiroth lowers his arms.)

Sephiroth
"Five years ago you were..."
"...constructed by Hojo, piece by piece, right after Nibelheim
was burnt."
"A puppet made up of vibrant Jenova cells, her knowledge, and the power of Mako."
"An incomplete Sephiroth-clone. Not even given a number. ...That is your reality."
(Bolded for emphasis.)

Now let's examine what Sephiroth says of himself in Nibelheim and what the Sephiroth form seen in the Temple of the Ancients says concerning itself:

(In the Mt. Nibel Mako Reactor.)

Sephiroth
"Ha, ha, ha... my sadness? What do I have to be sad about?"
"I am the chosen one. I have been chosen to be the leader of this Planet."
"I have orders to take this planet back from you stupid people
for the Cetra. What am I supposed to be sad about?"
(Bolded for emphasis.)

(In the Temple of the Ancients.)

"I'm far superior to the Ancients."
"I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients."
"I also gained the knowledge and wisdom of those after the
extinction of the Ancients."
"And soon, I will create the future."
(Bolded for emphasis.)

Derogatory, inferior terms were used by the Sephiroth forms to describe Cloud, whereas Sephiroth in Nibelheim and the Sephiroth form in the Temple of the Ancients speak highly of himself/itself. The Sephiroth forms' points in saying those things to Cloud seem to be to be intended to convey a sense of inferiority to him concerning himself, and certainly not to suggest that he was the same as Sephiroth.

[Camanche]

I agree...just what does that have to do with anything?

It has to do with the fact that Sephiroth sees himself differently then how he sees Cloud. He sees himself as better, not inferior, like he believes Cloud to be. He sees Cloud as one of those 'created' beings, that were lesser than himself, and not even capable of emotions because they were puppets- something to be used- not something that could have their own emotions and feelings.



...The part where Sephiroth questions Cloud's ability to feel sadness doesn't blatantly scream that fact out to you?

Not, really.... no. The only thing it screams out to me is that Sephiroth thinks little of Cloud; not of his own ability to feel emotions. I've always thought Sephiroth had shown a wide array of emotions throughout the game, and I never recall him denying his ability to feel them.

EDIT: I just kind of thought of somethine else. The Sephiroth we speak to throughout the game is just one of his projected 'forms'. Now, I'm a little iffy on this whole concept, but is the projected forms of Sephiroth consciously controlled by Sephiroth, Jenova, or both?

Because if the forms are controlled by Jenova, than technically, none of things that Sephiroth says have much truth to them- they are more of what Jenova thinks and tells Cloud to screw with his mind and what not. As far as I know, that only time we truly get to speak to the 'real' Sephiroth is after we drop his crystalized body into the Northern Crater upon giving him the Black Materia. So, basically, at the final showdown at the end of the game. And, well, in the flashback as well we see the real Sephiroth, even though he's gone loony in the last part of it.

[LastCetra]

Sephiroth is the greatest because people could relate to him. With Kefka, it was just "look, he's destroying the world. Cool." With Sephiroth it was like "look, he gonna destroy the world, he's gone mad! SEPHIROTH! NO!"
Bit dramatised but I think you get my drift. It's not really about hating Sephiroth, it's about loving the fact of the actions that made him pure evil. I heard a quote once that said "People hate a good villian, but love a great one." I think it's very true in this case.

[ravenzero2000]

Sorry, ravenzero+numbers but I just wanted to ask you another thing... do you have any sense of humor?

Yes I do, but its a very dry sense of humor...like people suffering and bleeding, thats funny...so is horrible destruction...and as for your little comments, 1. He is a differant kind of evil than you are used to odviously, but your little incomprehenible mind cant...comprehend that from what I can see. 2. Yea, he's insanse...what's not great about that? I mean what villan is complete without insanity...AND..as Aerostotale once said "There can be no great genius without a mixture of madness." Making Sephiroth even cooler. 3. He is one tough son of a bitch, it took me 6 months to beat him without the Knights of the Round materia...DAMN CHOCOBO BREEDING!...and just play the game and you'll find out how bad he really is. (but you have to pay attention too, not ADD all over the place).


Internet Explorer is the best internet browser.

Yea right, most viruses and hackers are targeted specifically at Internet Explorer...unless you have a dozen virus protection files that update constantly...CONSTANTLY...but if you want a good internet...thingy...go with FireFox. That thing rules.


You have lost all respect from me as far as RPGs go. Your opinion no longer counts.

Okay...fine...dont really care about respect...DEATH TO THE FLYING OOMPA LOOMPA MONKIES!!

[DocFrance]

Yea right, most viruses and hackers are targeted specifically at Internet Explorer...unless you have a dozen virus protection files that update constantly...CONSTANTLY...but if you want a good internet...thingy...go with FireFox. That thing rules.
Wow, you really lost that analogy. I'm not even going to bother explaining it because it should be pretty obvious.

[Raistlin]

ravenzero2000: go back to my post, and reread the part about Internet Explorer. Maybe then you'll get it.

[Ultima Shadow]

Yes I do, but its a very dry sense of humor...like people suffering and bleeding, thats funny...so is horrible destruction...
Ummm... ok... that's a... "weird" sense of humor. :eyebrow:


and as for your little comments, 1. He is a differant kind of evil than you are used to odviously, but your little incomprehenible mind cant...comprehend that from what I can see. 2. Yea, he's insanse...what's not great about that? I mean what villan is complete without insanity...AND..as Aerostotale once said "There can be no great genius without a mixture of madness." Making Sephiroth even cooler. 3. He is one tough son of a bitch, it took me 6 months to beat him without the Knights of the Round materia...DAMN CHOCOBO BREEDING!...and just play the game and you'll find out how bad he really is. (but you have to pay attention too, not ADD all over the place).
Well... if YOUR little incomprehenible mind don't even understand what Raistlin meant by the IE thing... like I said... :rolleyes2 And even though Sephiroth may be a "different kind" of evil, he's still not even close to being as evil as most villains are and should be. I'v never said that Sephiroth is a bad villain though. He's indeed a very good villain... but there's ALOT of villains who are much better at playing the role as villains. If you think Spehiroth is the best because he's evil and insane... then I really don't understand how you can think he's better than Kefka. Kefka is much more evil and insane in every way... and not even Kefka is the most evil and insane villain.
And finally... it took you 6 months? Mind if I laugh? :)
I guess you'll refuse to belive this but I defeated Sephiroth with solo Vincent at level 72, first and crappiest equippment + no materia at all equiped in 1 day. Now... if I could beat him that way, it doesn't really makes him seem all that hard, does it? And on top of that, this battle was very EASY compared to many other battles I've tried out.

I mean cmon people, he is hands down just the greatest villan of all time and has the biggest fan base to prove it.



Following that logic, Internet Explorer is the best internet browser.


Yea right, most viruses and hackers are targeted specifically at Internet Explorer...unless you have a dozen virus protection files that update constantly...CONSTANTLY...but if you want a good internet...thingy...go with FireFox. That thing rules.
*NO COMMENT* :greenie:


Okay...fine...dont really care about respect...DEATH TO THE FLYING OOMPA LOOMPA MONKIES!!
:rolleyes2

[Sepho]

Let's, uh, settle down, guys :p.

[Rase]

Nah, this is pretty interesting, and it IS going along with the topic. :)

[lordblazer]

I like to think of Sephiroth as a tragic hero, rather than the greatest villian. I'm not sure what the greatest villian would be, as I don't play loads of RPG games, just Final Fantasy and those others that hang outside it.

Tragic hero, I think, because he was born into his fate unwillingly - still considered a hero to many until he went insane. IMHO
NAw Dagoth Ur and the goddess Alexmaxia were greater RPG villians than Sephiroth is.

[ravenzero2000]

Well... if YOUR little incomprehenible mind don't even understand what Raistlin meant by the IE thing

DOES IT REALLY LOOK LIKE I'VE PAYED ANY ATTENTION TO ANYTHING ANYONE HAS SAID IN THIS FORUM!? anyway, I am right about IE being a virus filled piece of crap. If you disagree, *holds out a slip of paper* here's your pass to go to Hell. :D

[Squall of SeeD]

DOES IT REALLY LOOK LIKE I'VE PAYED ANY ATTENTION TO ANYTHING ANYONE HAS SAID IN THIS FORUM!? anyway, I am right about IE being a virus filled piece of crap. If you disagree, *holds out a slip of paper* here's your pass to go to Hell. :D

Just to give you a hand here, raven, when Raistlin mentioned Internet Explorer being the best browser, they didn't mean that they think it is. It was a response to this Post by you:


I mean cmon people, he is hands down just the greatest villan of all time and has the biggest fan base to prove it.

They said "By that logic," Internet Explorer is the best browser," meaning "If whatever the majority goes with is the best, then Internet Explorer would be the best browser, but that's obviously not the case."

[Ultima Shadow]

DOES IT REALLY LOOK LIKE I'VE PAYED ANY ATTENTION TO ANYTHING ANYONE HAS SAID IN THIS FORUM!?
Hmmm... you're right. :) I guess that's why you never seemed to relise what others are telling you. Well, if you don't pay attention to what anyone else is saying, it's pretty pointless to discuss with you at all. :rolleyes2

I use Firefox by the way. Man, I hope you read what Squall of SeeD just wrote and actually get the point. :greenie:

[DMKA]

But Internet Explorer is the best browser. :D

[Camanche]

But Internet Explorer is the best browser. :D

*bangs head on desk*

Firefox saved me.

[Rostum]

NAw Dagoth Ur and the goddess Alexmaxia were greater RPG villians than Sephiroth is.

I never said Sephiroth was the greatest villian.

[DK]

You all need to recognise that the greatest game villian is Dr. Robotnik. So there.

[ravenzero2000]

They said "By that logic," Internet Explorer is the best browser," meaning "If whatever the majority goes with is the best, then Internet Explorer would be the best browser, but that's obviously not the case."

Well, the flying monkies will be in the evil circus of doom looking for oompa loompas.

[Rase]

Yeah......

[FallenAngel411]

This thread is WAY too long for me to read the whole thing.

Anyways, I like a lot of villains, I could never choose one and say it is the definitive baddie. All my fave villains are different in many ways, and can't be compared to each other...not really. So, Sephiroth ranks pretty high for me, but it would be extreme to call him the greatest villain ever. He's pretty cool though.

[Del Murder]

Let's, uh, settle down, guys :p.
Good call. No reason for you guys to be bullies. There are ways to debate with someone without belittling them.

I think this one is done.