Unrealistic dialogue...

[Peter_20]

Don't get me wrong here, I do think this is one of the best games ever created, but am I the only one who think that the dialogues and conversations between characters were kinda dry?
I mean, the chars talk way too little, and they act really strange during many events, and at least for me, it hurt the overall experience.
Here are some examples:


#1:
Edgar meets Sabin on Mt. Kolts.
It's been ages since they last saw each other.
In spite of that, all that happens is that Locke comes in there and says "The brothers are reunited!"... and that's it!

#2:
Cyan has just lost his family in the Doma event.
At first he acts very believable, but five minutes later he starts making jokes with Sabin and laughing at stuff.
Where's the grief?

#3:
You rejoin with the other characters after the Leo event in Thamasa.
Edgar tells Cyan what had happened to Leo, and he goes like "Did Leo die?! Damn it, he was a good man. Oh well, now let's go, guys."

#4:
You find Locke in the Phoenix Cave in WoR.
Instead of getting surprised and start posing questions like "YOU'RE ALIVE?! But how...?" he just has this attitude "HELLO, everyone! Look at this: MAGICITE! I rock!"

Didn't you ever think that stuff like this was kinda annoying?
Cuz I do.

[boys from the dwarf]

its odd but you have to be a huge FF6 fan and critic to actually care.

[Big D]

FFVI's script is generally quite good - I mean, the main characters usually speak like educated adults, even though there are 'odd' patches, like those you quoted. The script is mercifully free of 'kiddy talk' of the kind that plagued FFIX.

With a bit of refinement, FFVI would have a near-perfect script. Just a few tweaks to clean up the errors, like those mentioned earlier in this thread, and inconsistencies like Terra's remark to Sabin, "you look like a bodybuilder who's escaped from his gym". This particular line has always bugged me, since Terra's (1) got amnesia and (2) from a world populated by magical spirits, so I'd question the likelihood of her knowing what either a bodybuilder or a gym actually is.

[TheAbominatrix]

I definitly agree with D (big surprise there).

I wonder if those strange patches of poor quality dialogue are more from translation than anything else... I'd put money on that being the case. I think the GBA port of VI will have a re-translation, so we shall see.

[Strider]

Well, wouldn't cartridges have not had so much room for more dialogue?

[Destai]

Actually I like that Locke quote you mentioned. It showed his personality. Made him as cool as he is and all.

[theundeadhero]

I generally find that to be a problem in all RPGs. I always find myself rephrasing the words on the tv screen to sound cooler and match the personality better.

[boys from the dwarf]

also have you guys read all of "ah,the power of cheese." its like this in FF4 and probbably in a lot of other FFs.

[Flying Mullet]

What is this "power of cheese" that you speak of?

[theundeadhero]

The moons gravitational pull of the tides.

[boys from the dwarf]

What is this "power of cheese" that you speak of?
its a FF4 spoof that necronopticous wrote.

[TurkSlayer]

The lines you mentioned do seem strange, but it really isn't that important. Though how little grief Cyan seemed to show always bugged me. I would think that someone who just lost their family would grieve a bit more.

[Daryl]

Big D said it best, so, what he said.

[Dr. Casey]

At first Cyan was sad because he lost his family, but then he realized that being a father and a husband was hard work, so he decided to be thankful and go bang some random girls with Edgar and Gau.

[Starboard Regulator FlareNUKE]

Feral Children prefer apes over humans...

[Peter_20]

At first Cyan was sad because he lost his family, but then he realized that being a father and a husband was hard work, so he decided to be thankful and go bang some random girls with Edgar and Gau.
Then why didn't he bang the hottie in Nikeah? :p

[Big D]

Can we please drag this discussion out of the gutter?
Thanks.

[Flying Mullet]

What is this "power of cheese" that you speak of?its a FF4 spoof that necronopticous wrote.
[/sarcasm]

[DocFrance]

Wait, you're saying that Cyan didn't grieve enough? Puh-leeze! The majority of his lines revolved around his dead family. He was so mopey throughout the game, he was just one Linkin Park song away from posting about it on LiveJournal and slitting his wrists!

[TurkSlayer]

Wait, you're saying that Cyan didn't grieve enough? Puh-leeze! The majority of his lines revolved around his dead family. He was so mopey throughout the game, he was just one Linkin Park song away from posting about it on LiveJournal and slitting his wrists!

I seem to have missed a LOT of lines in my three playthroughs...

[Griever Zero]

I find the scenes where Sabin and Cyan are meeting up with Gau to be especially annoying...when they're making fun of Cyan and such...it drags out horribly...

They just didn't do that crap with FFVII and VIII...not as often, anyway.

[Kawaii Ryûkishi]

A game with a cast as big as FFVI's doesn't have time to place a great deal of focus on the twists and turns and drama of each character's circumstances. Everyone just gets a handful of key scenes, and it works out fine, really.

[Flying Mullet]

I find the scenes where Sabin and Cyan are meeting up with Gau to be especially annoying...when they're making fun of Cyan and such...it drags out horribly...

They just didn't do that crap with FFVII and VIII...not as often, anyway.
"Mr. Thou" is some of the best dialogue in the game. :cry:

[Nightmare X]

I don't see what's wrong with "Mr. Thou", and saying FF6's script is inferior to FF7 makes me want to stab you.

Sure, FF6's script was a bit unrealistic in some parts, but it wasn't horribly butchered like FF7's.

[Social Moon Firesky]

horribly butchered like FF7's.

Typos...*Shudders*

[kikimm]

I generally find that to be a problem in all RPGs. I always find myself rephrasing the words on the tv screen to sound cooler and match the personality better.

I agree with all of this.

It makes me sad. :( But dialogue is a big part of liking a game for me, and not for a whole bunch of other people maybe? Oh well.

[?????]

I don't see what's wrong with "Mr. Thou", and saying FF6's script is inferior to FF7 makes me want to stab you.

Sure, FF6's script was a bit unrealistic in some parts, but it wasn't horribly butchered like FF7's.

In terms of typos, I'd believe that. Dear Force, somebody was asleep at the wheel on that one.

Typos aside, FFVII's script just barely edges out VI's in terms of quality. Had Kefka had lines more befitting a villain instead of Blue Collar TV, they'd be equal. But the lines and behavior they gave Kefka made me utterly unable to take him seriously as a villain, even though "Son of a submariner!" makes a great catchphrase.

[MoonZapdos]

Indeed some FF6 dialogues are incredibly stupid ^^

[Roto13]

Is the Game Boy Advance version going to have new dialogue? I finished the game, like, 20 times and I'd buy the GBA remake for new dialogue. Oh, who am I kidding? I'll buy it anyway.

[DJZen]

Typos aside, FFVII's script just barely edges out VI's in terms of quality.

I wish Mark Twain were still alive so he could come up with a scathing remark or two about your lack of ability to determine good writing, and then write a work of satire to illustrate his point.

[Big D]

FFVII may have many bits of dodgy translation, but when it's good, it's good. The characters' voices are more individualised - in general, they each have a distinctive tone and style which makes them stand out, and adds a great deal of colour. In FFVI, however, it's often pretty generic. Most of Terra's lines are in a style identical to that of Celes or Locke; the only really unique voices belong to Gau, Umaro, and occasionally Mog. Cyan has the occasional token word of "olde worlde" language to make him sound grandiose, but it doesn't really fit - it's like something that's been deliberately shoehorned into an otherwise mundane sentence.

Basically, FFVI has a superior degree of consistency to its translation, while FFVII reaches greater heights with the way it gives unique voices to the main characters. As a result, FFVII's profound moments are further enhanced - like Cid's "someone's gotta defend the Planet, and that someone is us" speech. There's plenty of similar dialogue in FFVI, but it's usually so generic it doesn't stand out.

[?????]

I wish Mark Twain were still alive so he could come up with a scathing remark or two about your lack of ability to determine good writing, and then write a work of satire to illustrate his point.

Dude, get the hell over yourself. VI is good. But it isn't VII. Very few things are VII.

Of course, we all know that the best Final Fantasy is Chrono Trigger.

[ThroneofDravaris]

….Wait, what? Chrono isn’t…name different….battle system…

*head explodes*

[Roto13]

Well, for most of the game, FFVI uses actual generic lines for most of the dialogue (re: no matter what characters you have with you, they all say the same thing). You can't really argue that it's not generic, when it fits the definition perfectly.

[DJZen]

Dude, get the hell over yourself.

The funny thing is that I wasn't talking about myself at all, I was talking about how offensively lame FFVII's script is. I'm not sure how that makes me have an overinflated ego, but whatever.

[?????]

Well, the way you put it certainly sounded like you're one of the people who praises VI to high heaven just because they hate VII, who usually hate it simply because it's popular. These people usually are "nonconformists" who can't do anything that other people do because they have to "be an individual." And that's really, really retarded. Maybe you're one of those people and maybe you're not; the "get over yourself" served as a pre-emptive insult.

[ThroneofDravaris]

You mean that actually exists?! I thought I came up with it out of spite...

[eestlinc]

I thought the dialogue in ff6 was lame, not so much in the translation, but in the fact that the script itself is lame. Kefka is right, the main characters do sound like some pathetic self-help book.

[?????]

You mean that actually exists?! I thought I came up with it out of spite...

What, the pre-emptive insult? Nah, I came up with that. You just implemented it on the forum first.

[bipper]

Well, the way you put it certainly sounded like you're one of the people who praises VI to high heaven just because they hate VII, who usually hate it simply because it's popular. These people usually are "nonconformists" who can't do anything that other people do because they have to "be an individual." And that's really, really retarded. Maybe you're one of those people and maybe you're not; the "get over yourself" served as a pre-emptive insult.

omg! Don't labe us 'NONCONFORMISTS'! We may have to change our views again!

Djzen is mostly genuine, I assure you. Just don't mention dragonball around... yeah. I do agree with him though. While FFVI was sort of short on character at some points, FFVII managed to make me feel like I was watching an episode of sock puppet theatre - or a porn with decent acting. IT was just bad.

Bipper

[?????]

Well, at least we can all agree that Dragonball sucks.

[Roto13]

Well, at least we can all agree that Dragonball sucks.

I used to be a big fan of that show...

[Vyk]

My two favorite Final Fantasys. I will not choose between them. They are both good! But I still prefer Xenogears. But really, that was ages ago. What did you expect? It was better than any of its competition at the time. I'm sure if they made the game now, it'd have much deeper and more believable conversations.

[ThroneofDravaris]

What, the pre-emptive insult? Nah, I came up with that. You just implemented it on the forum first.
No, I mean the whole “People like FFVI because they’re too much of a git to admit they like FFVII” thing.

[?????]

It's not necessarily that they're too much of a git to like VII. Some people just plain don't like science fiction, or fantasy, or the two mixed together. But seriously, hating a game for the sole reason that it's popular is just retarded. It's /xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif like this that makes rational, normal people hate emos, and discriminatory elitist badasses such as myself beat them up.

[Roto13]

Emo isn't really popular....

*drifts away from topic*

I didn't like VII because I found it boring. Story, battle system, pacing and everything.

[Vyk]

Trendy = Popular. I've noticed too, hating FF7 is more trendy than liking it. People just say they don't like it just to look hardcore for some reason. They want their RPGs to remain in a niche, and FF7 was mainstream. They think the only games that deserve praise are the sleeper hits and more underground community games. Niche games. *Shrug* I like FF7, not because I want to join the crowd or be trendy. I just enjoyed the game.

[?????]

Trendy = Popular. I've noticed too, hating FF7 is more trendy than liking it. People just say they don't like it just to look hardcore for some reason. They want their RPGs to remain in a niche, and FF7 was mainstream. They think the only games that deserve praise are the sleeper hits and more underground community games. Niche games.

Exactly, because they're complete and total retards with no social skills.

[DJZen]

porn with decent acting.

My brain just exploded.


People just say they don't like it just to look hardcore for some reason. They want their RPGs to remain in a niche, and FF7 was mainstream. They think the only games that deserve praise are the sleeper hits and more underground community games. Niche games.

No offense, but you're way off the mark. I just didn't feel moved by FFVII the way I did by other games such as FFVI (which I would NEVER call a niche game). When I go back and play it now, I feel like it's an okay game with a lame storyline tacked onto it.

Also, the word you want to use to describe me is "iconoclast".

[Sasquatch]

No offense, but you're way off the mark. I just didn't feel moved by FFVII the way I did by other games such as FFVI (which I would NEVER call a niche game). When I go back and play it now, I feel like it's an okay game with a lame storyline tacked onto it.

Ditto.

The FFVII junkies just don't get it. It's not that we don't like FFVII because a lot of people do. We just don't like FFVII. Probably because we've started out with the older, better games. True, the fanatics are annoying, like the "OMG I cried when Aeris died!" -- extremely annoying -- and they do tend to push people away from it, but there are plenty of reasons in the game not to like it.

[Roto13]

Ditto.

The FFVII junkies just don't get it. It's not that we don't like FFVII because a lot of people do. We just don't like FFVII. Probably because we've started out with the older, better games. True, the fanatics are annoying, like the "OMG I cried when Aeris died!" -- extremely annoying -- and they do tend to push people away from it, but there are plenty of reasons in the game not to like it.

I wanted to say that yesterday, but I didn't have the energy.

[Vyk]

Well, unlike Question Marks, my comment wasn't directed at anyone personally. And also unlike Question Marks, I don't care if anyone really doesn't like Seven. I'm just stating what I've noticed. Or what seems to be. If you're not part of that, that's cool. On the flip-side I also know some people LIKE Seven because it's trendy. Even if you like Sephiroth, he's admittedly not nearly as cool as they all make him out to be.

[Nightmare X]

I don't see where would you get the idea that the only reason to dislike FFVII is it's (not deserved) fanbase, sure, it's annoying, but that sure as hell is not the reason for me (or a lot of other people) to dislike it.

Not only did FF7 suffer of a storyline that is, to be honest, incredibly boring (Multiple plot holes and uninteresting characters made it barely bearable). But it also suffered of multiple gameplay flaws, such as the fact there's very little to tell characters from each other, since the overwhelming ammounts of customization (Materia system) allow you to pretty much create character clones to the point in which stats don't matter anymore.

Plus I never really liked the FF7 cast, pretty much all of the characters are bland japanese clichés with barely anything unique to them (No, big swords aren't unique), I felt like I was playing a crappy anime while playing FF7, to be honest.

But whatever, that's just my rant.

[Doomie]

I find the scenes where Sabin and Cyan are meeting up with Gau to be especially annoying...when they're making fun of Cyan and such...it drags out horribly...

They just didn't do that crap with FFVII and VIII...not as often, anyway.

Scenes that drag out? I can give an example for each game, and a REALLY BIG AND USELESS ONE too.

FFVII:

Cloud: Okay boys, we got the Black Materia, but we lost that friend or spy in the process. Oh noes!

Cait Sith: I'm alive!

Cloud: Oh yay, now I won't be seeing you until you help Barret escape from prison because you suck! *shakes* Oh NOES, Sephir0th! FUshufuhsufhuhsufh *gives black materia*

Tifa: OMGZ, Cloud, r u ok?

Cloud: Damn, I did it again. Now time to waste another 3 hours of the gamer's life on a useless quest.

Also, FFVIII has quite possibly the GREATEST amount of useless scenes.

1.

*MB level or something*

Norh: Fushushushuhsurhunsuhruhsuhrushudhurhyushurhuhsurhuhsuhurhrurururururururu

As it turns out what happened so far in this game is completely wrong, and now the lengthy explanation before we fight because I want to take you to hell before I take you to...uhh. HELL!

2.

Irvine: We were all at the orphanage.

Qusitis: OMG, yeah, I remember!

Selphie: Yeah!

Zell: Stupid GFs!

Quistis: Yeah!

Selphie: Tee Hee!

Irvine: But what about...

Squall: Me too...

Quistis: Yeah!

Selphie: Rock on!

Zell: Iay!

Irvine: Whoo Hoo!

Squall: Yippee!

:p

[Halenite]

Sure, FF6's script was a bit unrealistic in some parts, but it wasn't horribly butchered like FF7's.

Aeris: "This guy are sick." Enough said. FFVI does not have the worst dialog.

[Sasquatch]

I find the scenes where Sabin and Cyan are meeting up with Gau to be especially annoying...when they're making fun of Cyan and such...it drags out horribly...

They just didn't do that crap with FFVII and VIII...not as often, anyway.

Didn't notice this earlier. The "Mr. Thou" scene wasn't long at all, really. And even if it was, it's not like it was as annoying and tedious as some of the scenes in VII -- which, by the way, had many drawn-out scenes, seeming to rely more on scinema than on gameplay and plot.

[Peter_20]

Scenes that drag out? I can give an example for each game, and a REALLY BIG AND USELESS ONE too.

FFVII:

Cloud: Okay boys, we got the Black Materia, but we lost that friend or spy in the process. Oh noes!

Cait Sith: I'm alive!

Cloud: Oh yay, now I won't be seeing you until you help Barret escape from prison because you suck! *shakes* Oh NOES, Sephir0th! FUshufuhsufhuhsufh *gives black materia*

Tifa: OMGZ, Cloud, r u ok?

Cloud: Damn, I did it again. Now time to waste another 3 hours of the gamer's life on a useless quest.

Also, FFVIII has quite possibly the GREATEST amount of useless scenes.

1.

*MB level or something*

Norh: Fushushushuhsurhunsuhruhsuhrushudhurhyushurhuhsurhuhsuhurhrurururururururu

As it turns out what happened so far in this game is completely wrong, and now the lengthy explanation before we fight because I want to take you to hell before I take you to...uhh. HELL!

2.

Irvine: We were all at the orphanage.

Qusitis: OMG, yeah, I remember!

Selphie: Yeah!

Zell: Stupid GFs!

Quistis: Yeah!

Selphie: Tee Hee!

Irvine: But what about...

Squall: Me too...

Quistis: Yeah!

Selphie: Rock on!

Zell: Iay!

Irvine: Whoo Hoo!

Squall: Yippee!

:p
I love these kinds of "quotes". :love:

[Butz]

:D it's not a big deal.. :D

[Dr. Casey]

The funny thing is that I wasn't talking about myself at all, I was talking about how offensively lame FFVII's script is. I'm not sure how that makes me have an overinflated ego, but whatever.

I think it's mainly because you had the "snobby intellectual who throws his opinions around as fact" thing going on. Quite common amongst those in College.

[Ishin Ookami]

FFVI may have had a juvenile translation at some points, I wont deny that. But man when the game stepped up with the melodrama, it really brought it. I mean whats up with people in this thread saying Cyan didnt mourn? they guy was pissed at the world and wanted nothing more then anyone who ever had anything to do with the empire to die, preferably with his sword in their gut. He was initially ready to start with celes the first time he met her, and his only reason for sticking with the group was to get in as much payback as possible. After they all got their butts handed to them, cyan was so distraught that he wanted to die, and you had to work your way through his effed up nightmare in order to do it.

As for FFVII, Its not so much the dialogue, as the story and characters that sucked. I'll never understand what the hell people see in sephiroth. All I see is the other half of gamings ambiguously gay duo, What with the cross dressing, big sword fascination, and V-neck leather, and inability to leave cloud the hell alone.

But the part of FFVII that really kills me is the whole "Cloud is a loser" epiphany. Like we really needed to spend those thirty minutes learning about how big a looser he's been his whole life. Then he's like, "yah, because I understand how much I suck now, I am a god among men". :mad:

I dont beat up on FFVII because its trendy, I give it its knocks because It has more flaws then it does good points. I mean after the greatness of FFVI (epic, multi party dungeons and battles, super deep magic and battle system, every character is unique and brings something specific to battle, great villain) they gave us FFVII (incompetent villain, shallow materia system, all characters fight the same, only multi-party battle is impossible to lose and lasts all of 2 minutes). Sure FFVII isnt an awful game, its really quite... decent overall. Its just an inferior one in its franchise.

Still, as contrived as FFVII was at some points, it was miles better then the mess of a story that was VIII. At least the 32-bit era had the greatness of IX to fall back on in terms of a good final fantasy title, but VI remains the best due to its dark, brooding, and dramatic story that actually made sense all the way throughout, despite a somewhat dippy translation at some points.

[DJZen]

I think it's mainly because you had the "snobby intellectual who throws his opinions around as fact" thing going on. Quite common amongst those in College.

Well Mark Twain DID like to make fun of bad writing, that much is a fact. Also, I don't exactly consider FFVI to be a great literary work. I'm sure Twain would have more than just a thing or two to say about that if he saw it. Doubtlessly he'd make fun of Woolsey's attempts at Elizabethan English in Cyan's dialogue.

That said, I still think Woolsey did a better job with FFVI's script than the translators of FFVII did with that game's script.


And tangentally, disliking something just because other people like it is just as stupid as liking something because other people like it. Coming from an iconoclast that means a lot.

[Roto13]

Well Mark Twain DID like to make fun of bad writing, that much is a fact.

Yeah, I wonder what he would have said about the last third of Huckleberry Finn. It's almost like the author was sloshed the whole time. Oh, wait..... ;)

Both games have crappy scripts, really. If you want to debate which one has a crappier story, make another thread for it.

[DJZen]

Don't even get me started on Huck Finn...

I wonder what Twain would say about Square's Tom Sawyer?

[Memoria]

Okay, with Cyan's event!

Cyan's heart is hurt so much. If he even thinks about what makes him ache so, he just might break down and commit sepuku. He laughs and jokes to try to make him not so sad, and not to bring down the others. He's a warrior, he thinks about the well being of his comerades, and that's just how I feel that he would try to keep them upbeat.