1572,the year of FF8.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

What MaxGrin said was true, but im gonna use his meteor thing for another problem I have with this.In different eras there would have been different events that happened that would change the earth's mass (thus using MaxGrin's examples) of that area but only affects that era because it is in a different time. But since every era has different events that do change the mass of the earth, wouldn't this throw off the earth entirely?

[Omnislash07]

You misunderstood.
There weren´t two Earths on space.
It is an holographical illusion.
On space they are on T+B era.

Are you saying that even in space the moon is holographic? If that is so how the heck is that possible.

Is it just me or is everything in FE's FF8 world holographic. Holographic walls, holographic ceilings, holographic windows, holographic moons...


Since the world is round,the DSRC era includes probably all the area outside of the hexagon.

After all the rectangular boards are irrelevant.

What are you talking about rectangles? On your map thing it is a hexagon and your hexagon just happens to be perfectly aligned so that no one can cross the lines on foot but if you rotate it so that the bottom of the hexagon is parralel to the bottom of the map i bet you could cross the lines.

Also does anyone else find it strange that on his world map thing the blue line where the holographic wall is supposed to be can be crossed but according to FE the red line is where it actually is because Adel was reshapping the planet or somethin. And not suprisingly the red line cannot be cross on foot because it mostly runs over water.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/Futuresthar/Worldmapandhexagonredblue.jpg

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

I think he's trying to say that the holographic walls aren't really lines, but that is the general area that they are in. I think by the red line he is showing what the real holographic wall loks like and that Adel keeps changing the holographic walls so that no one can cross overe them. I still think he should answer my question from my previous post also.

[Future Esthar]

Are you saying that even in space the moon is holographic? If that is so how the heck is that possible.

Is it just me or is everything in FE's FF8 world holographic. Holographic walls, holographic ceilings, holographic windows, holographic moons...


I don´t know whether the "moon" was holographic or the "Earth" but at least one of them must be holographic.


What are you talking about rectangles? On your map thing it is a hexagon and your hexagon just happens to be perfectly aligned so that no one can cross the lines on foot but if you rotate it so that the bottom of the hexagon is parralel to the bottom of the map i bet you could cross the lines.

It is not required for my theory to stablish an orientation.That´s irrelevant.
What I said was that the drawing can fit the world map at a certain angle.The coincidence is not lost just because of an angle shift.
It is stil a coincidence that it fit the world map and the topology is equal of that of the picture(External or internal angles don´t matter).


What MaxGrin said was true, but im gonna use his meteor thing for another problem I have with this.In different eras there would have been different events that happened that would change the earth's mass (thus using MaxGrin's examples) of that area but only affects that era because it is in a different time. But since every era has different events that do change the mass of the earth, wouldn't this throw off the earth entirely?

Don´t forget Hyne is behind WOTC and the Lunar Cries.
Which means these events were artificial and not random.
Hyne knows exactly how to change the geography of the planet.
He knows exactly what geological catastrophes to enable.
He understands physics and geology(which isn´t really a surprise).

[Omnislash07]

It is not required for my theory to stablish an orientation.That´s irrelevant.
What I said was that the drawing can fit the world map at a certain angle.The coincidence is not lost just because of an angle shift.
It is stil a coincidence that it fit the world map and the topology is equal of that of the picture(External or internal angles don´t matter).

But it doesnt really fit you had to adjust one line to make it fit. So the way u origionally had it doesnt work which means that there is no coincidence.

[Future Esthar]

One has to understand the context to understand the meaning of that red line.
What we saw on the panel was a strategical MODEL which Adel couldn´t follow because Laguna sent the Pandora to the sea.

[Omnislash07]

I know what ur talkin about i read the WOTC thread but what im saying is that if the line is there then you can walk through it and the big thing with your whole theory is that people cant go through it on foot. So that would not be an "ideal" position for the wall like you said in the other thread.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/Omnislash07/proof.jpg
You see that little black line FE? The one that crosses the red line marking where your holographic wall is at. The red line that only vehicles made to time travel can cross. Well i crossed it on a chocobo. How do u explain that. Chocobos do not have internal GPS that tell them how to time travel.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Wait, is Hyne still alive throughout this whole thing making the artificial events and such?

[Future Esthar]

You can find him on the future where he resides(and suposedly never time travelled).

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

ooohhh, that makes sense a bit.

[Christmas]

But we also see the column over Galbadia.How do you explain that.

WHAT COLUMN?

[Discord]

WHAT COLUMN?

I think he's talking about the shot from the space, where it heads somewhere looking like Galbadia. I suppose. Don't ask me.

[Emery]

You can find him on the future where he resides(and suposedly never time travelled).

But umm do you actually get to see him ? can you post a pic of him if you actually do see him ?

[Future Esthar]

We actually see him.
And he looks really odd should I tell you.

A very odd Hyne.

[Emery]

We actually see him.
And he looks really odd should I tell you.

A very odd Hyne.

Are there any pictures of him ? could send a link perhaps, if you have any.

[Future Esthar]

Just when I decide to reveal.Keep looking at the "Evangelic view on the occult" thread.

He is not called Hyne.
That was the way that Vascaroon spelled his name.


You see that little black line FE? The one that crosses the red line marking where your holographic wall is at. The red line that only vehicles made to time travel can cross. Well i crossed it on a chocobo. How do u explain that. Chocobos do not have internal GPS that tell them how to time travel.

Yes,I know about that problem.
That is a big one.
In fact one can go from the sacred chocobo forest to Edea´s house.
Let´s think a little.Were are the only places were we find a chocobo not riding by anyone?
Its Winhill and the seven chocobo forests.
The chocobo forests looked artificial from the outside.The chocoboys treated these forests and decided to perform experiments on them.Genetic manipulation was made on some animals to create mutations.The time traveling and GPS orientation characteristics were implement genetically on these animals.
The GPS probably become some innate pattern on the Chocobo´s brain.
All of the chocoboys had the same appearance.That´s because they were all shumi´s who became possessed by the same person-Hyne.And they look like Hyne.
Maybe the sacred forest was the firsst place.Hidden by a deep forest it is perfect to develop hidden experiments.

[Discord]

Just when I decide to reveal.Keep looking at the "Evangelic view on the occult" thread.

He is not called Hyne.
That was the way that Vascaroon spelled his name.

Pff... can't you just post your theories instead of ending every sentence half finished with an intrigue.

This kind of reminds me a Soap Opera:



Jack: Simon, there's something very important I need to tell you?

>>>ADVERTISEMENTS>>>>

Jack: Simon, there's something very important I need to tell you?
Simon: What is it, mate?
Jack: Your pants are open.
Simon: O, thanks man.
...

[Future Esthar]

Post 266 edited.

[Discord]

Thank you.

[Omnislash07]

The chocobo forests looked artificial from the outside.The chocoboys treated these forests and decided to perform experiments on them.Genetic manipulation was made on some animals to create mutations.The time traveling and GPS orientation characteristics were implement genetically on these animals.
The GPS probably become some innate pattern on the Chocobo´s brain.

Where is your proof or even a reason that would make you think that the chocobos were being genetically manipulated? I mean unless you have some proof then there is no reason to believe you.


All of the chocoboys had the same appearance.That´s because they were all shumi´s who became possessed by the same person-Hyne.And they look like Hyne.

As for the choco boys all looking the same, its because they are the same person. There is just 1 choco boy and he travels between the chocobo forests using chocobos so he isnt some shumi he is just a normal person.

Plus how can Hyne possess like 10 different people at the same time? I mean if you are in 1 persons mind how do you go and get into another persons. There is no way to simultaneusly possess multiple people.

What was post 266

[Discord]

What was post 266

FE just added more info to nr. 266.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

That chocobo forest being artificial thing is a crok. I'm gonna have to side with Omnislash here. The belief that chocobos were genetically manipulated is completely absurd. There is no possible reason either. I don't think Hyne would've even thought of that.

[Future Esthar]

As for the choco boys all looking the same, its because they are the same person. There is just 1 choco boy and he travels between the chocobo forests using chocobos

That´s irrelevant.
Chocoboy is a Shumi possessed by Hyne.

Now can you post other counter arguments to WOTC please?


That chocobo forest being artificial thing is a crok. I'm gonna have to side with Omnislash here. The belief that chocobos were genetically manipulated is completely absurd.

Why?Argue,please.


I don't think Hyne would've even thought of that.

That´s because you don´t know him.

[Omnislash07]

No because you still havent given any proof that the chocobos are genetically enhanced and you also havent explained how Hyne (1 person) can simultaneusly posses about 10 people or more.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

FE, u are telling us to give u proof when it is urself that must have the arguments since u obviously are not even giving reasonable statements.

[Future Esthar]

Maybe you are right,there is one Chocoboy.But he is a Shumi possessed by Hyne.


FE, u are telling us to give u proof when it is urself that must have the arguments since u obviously are not even giving reasonable statements.

Don´t wanna proof.Just explain why it is unreasonable to you.

[Omnislash07]

I wasn even talking about how he posses all the chocoboys because i knew there was only 1. I mean how he can posses Ulti, Aldel, Elone, Rinoa, and all of the human/shumi's that you say created the Balamb underground train tunnel.

[Future Esthar]

That´s a problem about multiple consciousness.
Since this wasn´t never experienced one our world I don´t know what it looks like or if it can be proved.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

dude all ur saying is unreasonable! the chocobos being genetically manipulated, the chocobo forests being fake, that Hyne can possess so many ppl. they can happen but the fact that Hyne was able to think or even be able to do all this isn't right! u got some explainin to do.

[Omnislash07]

Okay lets use actual game information: When squall and company are in the minds of Laguna and company their bodies are asleep because their minds are inside of Laguna and com. If Hyne was possessing someone it would work like that and so he would be unable to possess multiple people at a time.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

that clears one thing up. (FE, no more about the possession thing now).

[Future Esthar]

Don´t forget Hyne knows more about possessiong capabilities than Elle.
He knows things about Elle´s powers that she didn´t know.

But please start yourself explaining why the genetic manipulation thingy was unreasonable.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

ok, i'd like to know why and how he would think of it. if this is unable to be asnwered without something having more questions to it that be questionable then the genteic thing just doesn't work. pls give ur insight to this.

[Omnislash07]

It doesnt matter how much he knows about possession. If he is possessing them then he is sending his mind into their bodies so he can make them do as he wishes. Since he has only one mine he cannot simultaneusly control more than 1 person.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

ok, this is why i would like to take the multiple possession thing out of the rest of the conversation. we have proven it invalid to Hyne's capabilities so it should be dropped.

[Omnislash07]

Ill drop it as soon as FE accepts that it is invalid.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

i know, i decided to want it dropped since u proved it invalid.

[Future Esthar]

All right,I admit.I have to rethink my theory here.
Let´s start with the axiom "Just one person can be possessed at a time".

We know that a shumi evolves to what is on their hearts.

Most of the persons possessed by Hyne remain stopped when we talk with them.
Maybe a shumi takes a long time to get back to normal when they weren´t possessed.
Hyne uses a circular device to possess people which works as some kind of comm. tower.It also works as a clock to syncronize the time (and maybe space also) factor.The era to which the wave is sent.
Hyne´s pigtail works as the clock pointer.
So to change the person to be possessed he only needs to be as fast as turning his head around (to the possible extent).
So maybe he quickly changes the possessed person.


ok, i'd like to know why and how he would think of it.

Imagine the implications.
Even if the citizens of FF8 discover the WOTC system and the time travelling vehicles they would deny it by using the chocobo argument.It is more clever to use an animal as a time traveller than a man made vehicle.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

ur not telling me why and how he would think of it though. ur just using a possible reason.

[Future Esthar]

I explained the why.To be more efficient on the WOTC deception.

[Emery]

Hahaha, this is pointless IT WILL NEVER !!! But you know, you guys can try :D . Ill just sit back and be entertained. ;)

[Omnislash07]

Hahaha, this is pointless IT WILL NEVER !!! But you know, you guys can try :D . Ill just sit back and be entertained. ;)

Dude ur right, this is comepletly hopeless because as soon as we come up with a problem in FE's fanfic he just makes up something new to get around that problem. So im gonna just say screw it and not even pay attention to his posts anymore.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

alright that could be the why, but what about the how? he's human and open to mistakes too u know.

[Emery]

alright that could be the why, but what about the how? he's human and open to mistakes too u know.

True he has a point there. Ill just stick around a while longer to see what happens here.

[Future Esthar]

I am not a biologist.
But the better explanation is that there would be some celullar pattern on Chocobo´s brain which enables it to time travel.The information about the map is innate on the Chocobo´s memory.


Dude ur right, this is comepletly hopeless because as soon as we come up with a problem in FE's fanfic he just makes up something new to get around that problem. So im gonna just say screw it and not even pay attention to his posts anymore.


I see no problem with that.One should learn with one´s errors and enhance one´s theory.Never said I am perfect.Thanks for showing me the flaw.

[ThePheonix]

FE:

Hyne faught the humans he created and was able to flee by leaving half of its body behind to the humans (fled with the other half, which was stronger).

Humans studied their half of hyne in the underwater research center (aka Ultima weapon) and developed paramagic.

The other half escaped, and is found when time began to compress, the stronger half aka Omega weapon.


And about the Chocobos, I guess it's possible that they are genetically engineered chickens for all we know!

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

ur saying they have a map on their brain, that's not what im asking. im asking for how would Hyne think of it? i mean, don't u think the chocobos just know their way around the world of FFVIII, and since they are before Hyne ever existed and the different eras on one planet were created they should be able to go to different continents without jumping to a new era (i just thought this up, makes sense to me, unlike that Hyne brain implant chocobo thing).

[Future Esthar]

Time loops.Chocobos exist before Hyne because he sent his consciousness inside the chocoboy on the past and created them there.
And there is no reason to think Chocobo´s exist before WOTC.Hyne created WOTC first and then the Chocobos.

[Neco Arc]

Time loops.Chocobos exist before Hyne because he sent his consciousness inside the chocoboy on the past and created them there.
And there is no reason to think Chocobo´s exist before WOTC.Hyne created WOTC first and then the Chocobos.

Hyne, or the choco boy, did not create the chocobos... Squaresoft did when they made Final Fantasy II...

[Christmas]

Are there any humans left in the game?

And:

WHAT COLUMN?

[Future Esthar]

I will give you an aproximate list of the names of the persons possessed by Hyne.


Hyne, or the choco boy, did not create the chocobos... Squaresoft did when they made Final Fantasy II...




Since all the games are related maybe the most ancient era (Centra) is before the times of all FFs.After all it has a medieval touch.

[Discord]

I will give you an aproximate list of the names of the persons possessed by Hyne.

Since all the games are related maybe the most ancient era (Centra) is before the times of all FFs.After all it has a medieval touch.

Ok, FE, before you come back to your own little world and start being different, let me remind you that all the FFs are not related. They happen in different places and different times. Quoting:


Final Fantasy was made in 1987 by Hironubu Sakaguchi and was actually made as a farewell "present" to Square Co., Ltd. He felt that the gaming world was going in circles and that no-one wanted to take any chances with a new type of game. So he decided to quit the buisness and start a new career doing something completely different, maybe become a fisherman. But before he could do this he needed to prove to both himself and the rest of the world that the age of groundbreaking games were not over. He sat down and worked over a long period in secret on his last project ever. His last dream. His Final Fantasy. And so the name was created. Final Fantasy was a single man's last wish for proving that new things could still be made. And so far every single FF game has improved the gaming world in ways no-one could imagine. Every game has introduced something new, either in terms of graphic, gameplay, voices & music, engine... You name it, Final Fantasy has always been the first to go new ways. And that is how it should be. The moment Hironubu Sakaguchi feels the games are copying themselves he is going to quit and become a fisherman.

Now this might seem irrelevant to you, but the game are different as are their worlds. Clearly, FF6 and FF:Spirits Within are different worlds. One takes place on the Earth, the other in a fictional world. Though the planet might have come through various era's the landscape would still look similar, which is not the case in any off the FFs. Compare the maps:

4:
http://www.ffonline.com/1_ff4gfx/map-world.gif
5:
http://www.ffonline.com/1_ff5gfx/map-world3.gif
6:
http://www.returnergames.com/worldbooks/ff6/ff6wor.jpg
7:
http://www.ffward.net/images/7/7map.jpg
8:
http://www.galbadiax.com/ff8/ff8map.jpg
9:
http://www.kristasalter.com/gamesguru/ffix/worldmap_general.jpg

Now a map of our Earth and thus FF:SE:
http://www-us.ebsco.com/home/images/earth-map-servers.gif

Now please, tell me that they all look similar? Or maybe you want to say that the earth has changed during that time and that the periods between the games are so long. Well:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Plate_tectonics_map.gif/600px-Plate_tectonics_map.gif

What you see on the picture are continental plates. No matter at what age of the development of earth you go, you'll be able to more or less see them on the map. Now, all FFs have different maps and the plates tend to be different as well, so no, I do not think that it is the same planet.

No ideas of interplanetar training has been introduced in either of FFs, but FF:ENDLESS NOVA, which is not made by SquareEnix, and thus cannot be counted as evidence. Thus, your wrong.

[Christmas]

Since all the games are related maybe the most ancient era (Centra) is before the times of all FFs.After all it has a medieval touch.

FF VII took place 1000 years after FF VIII right?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Time loops.Chocobos exist before Hyne because he sent his consciousness inside the chocoboy on the past and created them there.
And there is no reason to think Chocobo´s exist before WOTC.Hyne created WOTC first and then the Chocobos.
wtf?! are u saying that Hyne was here at the beginning of the world for this game and had all the intelligence to do all this? I don't think so!

[Discord]

And Jesus spoke, I shall give you free food and free drinks, and I shall be in your chocoboys when thy shall need me. Oh please, this is too much.

To summarise:

All FFs take place in the same, very unfortunate world
Everybody is has been created by the almighty, omniscient God Hyne*kneels down and prays*
The Earth has been divided into time warping walls, without anyone ever noticing. Yeah, I mean, the scientists never look at things like climate, light and atmosphere
The Earth has a nifty high-tech roof which for a to us unknown purpose projects a picture of a moon, who is the earth in one of it’s other eras. Maybe God Hyne was bored and though that there could be no Romeo & Juliet without a moon or it was too dark for him to sleep and he set up a night-lamp, which he called the moon
Ellone is in really a killed-robot send from some more progressive FF, which is still to come out, in order to play around with Squally-Poo
Erosion is a myth; the landscape just shuffles every century
Evolution is a myth; humans never develop
Bigs and Wedge are time travellers, responsible for humour in the world
Everyone is mad, but FE, who is certainly right with his theories


You know, the one problem I have with your theory is that I don’t know where we are compared to the other FFs. I mean, clearly FF:Spirits Within takes place very close to our time. 2100 was the date or something. Now what comes first, FF:SE or FFVII. Both have quite progressive technologies, however, FFVII is clearly quite a bit behind FF:SE, plus the landscape looks a bit different but that’s ok with point 6. Now FFVII cannot happen before our time, since it’s not in our history(would be cool if it was:p), thus it must have happened either a long time ago before dinosaurs since we don’t have any fossils of Cloud and Tifa. Now this means that it happens after our world, which means that humanity did die out and fell to a very low tech level after FF:SE. I think this is messed up.

EDIT:
Since all the games are related maybe the most ancient era (Centra) is before the times of all FFs.After all it has a medieval touch.


A look, your wrong, the most ancient era are the ancients for FFVII. Plus, medieval = medieval, not ancient. Ancient comes first.

[Future Esthar]

Yes I am.



What you see on the picture are continental plates. No matter at what age of the development of earth you go, you'll be able to more or less see them on the map. Now, all FFs have different maps and the plates tend to be different as well, so no, I do not think that it is the same planet.

No ideas of interplanetar training has been introduced in either of FFs, but FF:ENDLESS NOVA, which is not made by SquareEnix, and thus cannot be counted as evidence. Thus, your wrong.


But meteorites coming from space and the Lunar Cries would change the plates,I bet.

You are misunderstanding things.
Hyne is not a God but a human being.

Ellone is not a cyborg.
I just said there is a cyborg which imitates Ellone.
This cyborg is big Ellone.
The true Ellone is the little one we see and for those who don´t know I think it is Rinoa.


The Earth has been divided into time warping walls, without anyone ever noticing. Yeah, I mean, the scientists never look at things like climate, light and atmosphere.


On my theory,wind making devices exist on the walls.

[BG-57]

You know, I'm surprised that Hollow Earth theories haven't been mentioned yet.


http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/images/Hollow%20Earth%20theory.jpg

[Discord]

On my theory,wind making devices exist on the walls.


You know how idiotic the idea of wind making devices sounds? Ok, and how about light polarisation, moisture, erosion, material integration and intersection and, my all time favourite, birds? Do you also have some bird making devices on those walls?

Esthar, where do you have a slightest notion on any sort of walls in the game, except from a window that with a bunch of imagination fits the map?

[Future Esthar]

There is an interesting FMV about birds on the game.It actually seems to show there is a wall there.Ask old members.I already posted it.

[Christmas]

Since all the games are related


Someone here is getting new ideas from our friend here.



All I know is that FVIII is set 1000 years after FFVII...



The FFs are in order except for X and X2. Square have said this



There are also hiddens things DISSPROVE the R=U theroy but PROOVE the J=U Theroy concidering Jenova gets "Imposed" many times in FFVIII You can't tell me that was an acident.

I dun really know what theories you two had discussed but judging from our friend's past history:


I'll prove it in a later post.




But all will be revield in another post.

Those posts he promised never appear and I strongly doubt whatever he said nor do I had any faith in what you said in the first place anyway. But it is really terrifying if you two fuse together.


maybe the most ancient era (Centra) is before the times of all FFs.After all it has a medieval touch.

If you had just played FF VIII and FF VII, you are really in no position to said or made this assumption regardless if you gotten any twisted information from your new friend.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

FE, u are coming up with new reasons just at an attempt to keep ur old original theory questionable. That's messed up. Tell us about the birds. Did Hyne gentically maipulate them too? :rolleyes2

[Omnislash07]

NO NO NO NO NO!! You've got it all wrong, the birds are shumis possesed by hyne with little gps sticking out of their heads. Duh!
That is obvius from in game information that i will soon make up with another theory that is almost inpossible to proove wrong because it is so comepetly retarded.

(FE I hope u catch the small amount of sarcasim in that post)
And I hope you catch on when I say that if you can't post without throwing a flame at someone, veiled or not, don't post. ~ Leeza

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

lol! :lol: but seriously, i'd like to know so i can come up with an easily thought up counter.

[Noj_R]

These "theories" are ludicrous. All the FF games are COMPLETELY different games. They are NOT connected whatsoever ( except same game designers ).

These theories are the most idiotic thing I have ever heard :eep:

I like FF8 but not in an sick obsessive way...

[Neco Arc]

Ellone is not a cyborg.
I just said there is a cyborg which imitates Ellone.
This cyborg is big Ellone.
The true Ellone is the little one we see and for those who don´t know I think it is Rinoa.

Once again. What the Smurf?

[Future Esthar]

These theories are the most idiotic thing I have ever heard


Interesting enough these idiotic theories are probably true.It´s difficult to believe them but I put my hand on fire for them.



FE, u are coming up with new reasons just at an attempt to keep ur old original theory questionable. That's messed up. Tell us about the birds. Did Hyne gentically maipulate them too?


Actually these birds are normal.
So far I had seen no one passing through an holographic wall on FF8.
The opposite happens.

[MJN SEIFER]

Christmas... These threads WILL appear one day when I can gather the proof. And also when it's died down. A bit


Some people are getting sick of me stating that FFs are related so I'm taking a break until I can get the proof uploaded. (I do have it - sort of)

[Future Esthar]

Midgar is FH,Deling City and Garden.
That´s obvious.

[Noj_R]

Interesting enough these idiotic theories are probably true.It´s difficult to believe them but I put my hand on fire for them.

I'd stick my hand in a Quiznos oven for this theory too...

::Ahem:: Ultimecia is the only REAL human in the game :eek: Everyone else is an illusion in her mind caused by a more powerful being ( Will reveal later ). Ultimecia's mission to compress time was so she could expose the being and end its terror on her mind...

Dont tell me that isnt a relevant theory I came up with just now. Why else is she compressing time but for that reason!?

YES! It all makes sense! Ultimecia is the main character in the game, Square you are so sly and tricky, making us think the whole time Squall and Rinoa were the good guys and Ulti was bad.

The ironic thing is that Ulti was defeated...And she never escaped the powers of the evil being, she became enslaved by it...

I am calling this the U = ORH theory!

Ulti = ( only real Human ) theory makes the most sense in my mind after all the FFVIII is not a love story about a young man who is taught to love again by a beautiful young woman... Its about birds, cyborgs, and smurfs.

[Future Esthar]

[FFVIII is not a love story about a young man who is taught to love again by a beautiful young woman... .

Of course it is.This concept is not out of my theories.

You didn´t use the binary or quasi-binary association method of argumentation on your theories.
This is a method I use.I consider this is the method which gives the best results and must be the base of an axiomatic theory(One which can´t be proved and along with other ones gives the evidence for non axiomatic ones).

[Noj_R]

.

Of course it is.This concept is not out of my theories.

You didn´t use the binary or quasi-binary association method of argumentation on your theories.
This is a method I use.I consider this is the method which gives the best results and must be the base of an axiomatic theory(One which can´t be proved and along with other ones gives the evidence for non axiomatic ones).

Doesnt matter, all you do is prove your theories WITH other theories of yours. None of your theories make sense without the others. Thats why you keep making new ones up, to cover your ass.

Its like evolution, they dont have any proof, so they just make up new hypothesises and theories to "prove" the other ones.

You cant give me three times in FF8 where your theories prove themselves.

And when it is all over, they will be proven wrong because they have no relevance to the game. YOu said yourself " IT IS a love story between a man and a woman " BUT these theories destroy the story themselves, so how can they be true?

[Future Esthar]

Nothing can be proved on an RPG.

But there were axiomatic theories which can be obtained through the binary/quasi-binary association method.The other theories can be obtained from these but these can not be obtained from any other.



BUT these theories destroy the story themselves,

No,they don´t.Prove me they do.No one has ever.
My theories are to the game what Relativity is to Newtonian physics.
They don´t contradict each other.Newtonian physiscs is just an approximation on Relativity.Of course this one sounds farfetched.

[Omnislash07]

Midgar is FH,Deling City and Garden.
That´s obvious.

Actually no its not. Midgar cannot be three different cities in the future because it was destoyed at the end of 7 and never rebuilt.


Its like evolution, they dont have any proof, so they just make up new hypothesises and theories to "prove" the other ones.

Dude dont even compare evolution to FE. Evolution is true, maybe not on the scale of everything coming from single celled organisms but everything does slowly evolve. If you disagree with this you need to take a basic Biology class.

[Future Esthar]

Rumors has that on FF7 DOC it still remains.

[Omnislash07]

Yeah its ruins remain. Its ruins are still there 500 years after 7 as seen in Red XIII's little scene at the end. But they dont rebuild it, they leave it in ruins forever.

[Noj_R]

Nothing can be proved on an RPG.

Thats a lame excuse for your theories. Everything I witnessed during the time I played FF8 through twice is proof. Not once did I ever witness any of your theories in action or even in question.


But there were axiomatic theories which can be obtained through the binary/quasi-binary association method.The other theories can be obtained from these but these can not be obtained from any other.

Axiomatic theories are theories that are self evident or self proving. So give us an example.

You have gone on about theories for weeks now without any self proving evidence, everyone who listened deserves to hear some real proof. Everyone would respect you more if you gave us some. But like I said, I bet you couldnt even give us three examples of your theories proving themselves.

Seems I was right...:eep:


Dude dont even compare evolution to FE. Evolution is true, maybe not on the scale of everything coming from single celled organisms but everything does slowly evolve. If you disagree with this you need to take a basic Biology class.

Actually, Evolution is not proven truth. If you have taken a biology class than you should know that the "proof" you call evolution are just genetic defects and are mutating the creature. Evolution states that the creature should get stronger and fitter, but all these mutations do is hinder the animal or do nothing at all.

Mutations are not evolution in action because no NEW information is being created ( a 5 legged cow has not evolved, it already has information for a leg, but a genetic defect has caused it to copy the leg a fifth time by mistake ). And there has never been a time in history that a creature has EVER been observed creating new genetic information on its own.

So evolution IS a theory and has no proof ( like FE's theories ), thus we should treat it as a theory ( as I was ) and not state it as true. And yes I have taken biology. :rolleyes2 And the way the evidence looks, I believe evolution to be a false theory.

[BG-57]

I'm not sure how evolution got involved in this, but at least I agree that it is a theory, in the sense that it is always possible that a newer better theory will be developed to replace or modify the existing one.

However evolution does not happen within single organisms, although mutations do. Evolution involves populations of organisms, some who are more and some who are less fit. Not all mutations are helpful, although the harmfulness or helpfulness depends a lot on the environment.

For example, genes that cause sickle cell anemia can be useful in tropical countries, where one copy of it can actually help to protect you from malaria. In colder climates, it's merely harmful.

Once a mutation develops that is helpful within an given environment, it increases the odds of survival of those that have it. So they would be more likely to reproduce. Gradually the mutation would spread to more and more of the population until the entire population has it. Given enough time and mutations, new species would arise.

So harmful mutations are the price individuals pay in order for a species to have genetic variation.

Anyways, it's apples and oranges. Future Esthar is using the term theory in a very different context.

[Noj_R]

Anyways, it's apples and oranges. Future Esthar is using the term theory in a very different context.

No he's not. Like evolution ( which has NEVER been observed, ever ) which proves theories with new theories, he does the same thing with his own. He proves them with "proof" that is not proven.

I hope you can follow that last line...:rolleyes2

[BG-57]

I agree with you that Future Esthar's theory here doesn't have a solid basis in the game.

But evolution is not in the same category. It's a critical part of biology and has been supported by a lot of direct evidence.

For an observation of evolution in action, how about the development of antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria?

[Noj_R]

For an observation of evolution in action, how about the development of antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria?

No, what you are observing is natural selection in action...

Humans developed this strain of bacteria through a process of elimination by killing the weak bacteria and upholding the resistant ones. Thus, those with the stronger immunity survive and the strain improves generation after generation.

Thats why doctors want you to take your medicine for the whole duration because there might be bacteria left that is strong and you need to take it all to eliminate them.

That is not evolution in action though. The bacteria did NOT create new genetic material to counter the antibiotics. Humans interfered and did the process themselves.

But that is not evolution either. Evolution is the process of nature causing the natural selection and nature growing the new genetic material.

Evolution has NEVER been observed in nature EVER and has yet to produce ANY real proof...

And like evolution, Future Esthar's theories have NEVER been observed in the game EVER and have yet to produce any real proof...

[BG-57]

Nothing creates new genetic material anyways. Mutations are random changes in DNA. Some bacteria have mutations that make them resistant and some don't. It's not a useful mutation unless that antibiotic is present.

I take it that you don't find the fossil record, characteristics of lower vertebrates (like gill slits) in fetuses and nonfunctional genes in noncoding DNA segments convincing evidence.

At any rate, I don't think we're going to settle this issue on this thread.

On that note, good night all.

[Noj_R]

Nothing creates new genetic material anyways. Mutations are random changes in DNA. Some bacteria have mutations that make them resistant and some don't. It's not a useful mutation unless that antibiotic is present.

I take it that you don't find the fossil record, characteristics of lower vertebrates (like gill slits) in fetuses and nonfunctional genes in noncoding DNA segments convincing evidence.

At any rate, I don't think we're going to settle this issue on this thread.

Yes, nothing creates new genetic material ( even though thats whate evolution teaches ), but mutations are not random CHANGES they are random DEFECTS. The DNA has not changed it has simply made an error in the constructing process.

The gills in the fetus evidence was used years ago, like 1950s...

The so called " gill proof " has since been disproven. The "gills" are in fact pouches that develop important organs such as the Thymus gland and the Parathyroid glands. You can look up the evidence in the book "Medical Embryology".

The "gill proof" was made up by a evolutionist fraud named Ernst Haeckel, who in fact confessed his evidence ( such as the gills ) as false before he died...

The evidence you have cited is indeed false ( if you dont believe look it up in the book I refrenced above ).

Evolution does not have ANY proof at all, and the gill fraud was a desperate attempt to deceive people who are not too familiar with our pharyngeal...

Good night to you :)

Future Esthar where are you...

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

OK, for some of u, take biology again. I agree that evolution is a theory because u can't actually se it happen because it is soooo slow (natural selection is part of evolution). Also, when an organism gets stronger and fitter, those are not mutations. As u should know from biology genes that are past into offspring are combined and the genes that carry the similar trait are combined and change into a dominant(stronger for some genes) and recessive (weaker for some genes). No mutations, sry! And no, evolution is not saying that new genetic material is produced. Just so u know, I think God just made evolution to give something for ppl to think about. God does all by His will and is the Most High!


Actually these birds are normal.
So far I had seen no one passing through an holographic wall on FF8.
The opposite happens.


wtf?! u've been saying that chocobo's and vehicles pass through holographic walls and now ur saying that with birds the walls pass through them?! no, no, no, no, no! ur making new theories to try to back up ur old ones! STOP IT! :mad:

[Discord]

Its like evolution, they dont have any proof, so they just make up new hypothesises and theories to "prove" the other ones.


No, no. That's religion. You prove the existance of god with bible, which is also fictive.

[Future Esthar]

and now ur saying that with birds the walls pass through them?

By opposite,I mean,birds don´t pass through hol walls nor hol walls through them.
I don´t mean opposition but negation.That´s what I mean by "The opposite happens".

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

So...ur sayin they can't? :confused:

[Discord]

By opposite,I mean,birds don´t pass through hol walls nor hol walls through them.
I don´t mean opposition but negation.That´s what I mean by "The opposite happens".

Good one. Now let's try figuring that out. Ok, could you please say that in a different phrase, since I'm having a problem with comprehending the one above. Silly me:rolleyes2.

[Future Esthar]

So...ur sayin they can't?

yes.

[Noj_R]

Quit avoiding my questions FE, you DO prove your theories with new ones! And you have yet to show any of them that can stand on their own...

Your bird theory makes NO sense either, try using your binary/quasi mediocre method to prove it WITHOUT ANOTHER THEORY TO BACK IT UP!

And about evolution, YES, it does say new genetic material is made. How could they say dinosaurs evolved into birds without bird genes? The dinosaurs "made new material to grow wings", dinosaurs did not have wing genes in their DNA at any point ( and scientists have dinosaur DNA, and they do not have any extra genes ). And evolution cannot be said to be true because its sssslllooowwww... thats a lame excuse, science must be able to be observed to be science, and evolution cannot be observed because it doesnt exist...

[Future Esthar]

What bird theory?I made no bird theory.

Bynary association method.

This method consists of making an association between two similar events being these events the only two ones on the game.It also relates to the recognition of patters between two related events(unique ones).This method has flaws but give the best and most accurate results.


Quasi binary

like the binary but more than two events appear.More flawed than binary.

[BG-57]

http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/images/Article_pics/2003_feb/Pterodactyl%202.jpg

http://www.urweltmuseum-neiderhell.de/dinos/images/Pteranodon.jpg

[Shin Gouken]

Quit avoiding my questions FE, you DO prove your theories with new ones! And you have yet to show any of them that can stand on their own...

Your bird theory makes NO sense either, try using your binary/quasi mediocre method to prove it WITHOUT ANOTHER THEORY TO BACK IT UP!

And about evolution, YES, it does say new genetic material is made. How could they say dinosaurs evolved into birds without bird genes? The dinosaurs "made new material to grow wings", dinosaurs did not have wing genes in their DNA at any point ( and scientists have dinosaur DNA, and they do not have any extra genes ). And evolution cannot be said to be true because its sssslllooowwww... thats a lame excuse, science must be able to be observed to be science, and evolution cannot be observed because it doesnt exist...



Dude chill out :greenie:



edit: Who said anything about dinosaurs evolving into birds :s Evolution can be as simple as growing an extra finger. For example, Men have nipples but do not use them like women. By having them, it suggests that once we perhaps did use them. And have evolved because as the male of the species (and the hunter/supplier) we have left this part of parenting to the female. I realise ive spun into a theory of my own, but this would strongly suggest that evolution at least exists, even if you refuse to believe it

[MJN SEIFER]

Cristmas. Why did you include the "Jenova = Ultimeicia" in you're Quotes from me? that's irellovent if what you were trying to was point out my obsession with conecting the FFs.

Also I'm sorry (Kishi) To bring up the subject again but thoese maps have given me MORE evidense that the FFs might be connected.


FF1 is NOT set on "Earth".

[Discord]

Cristmas. Why did you include the "Jenova = Ultimeicia" in you're Quotes from me? that's irellovent if what you were trying to was point out my obsession with conecting the FFs.

Also I'm sorry (Kishi) To bring up the subject again but thoese maps have given me MORE evidense that the FFs might be connected.


FF1 is NOT set on "Earth".

Your theory is legitimate, now state your arguments and explain how the maps connect the FFs.

FE, please, could you give a detailed explanation of the bird-dilemma? What did you mean?

[MJN SEIFER]

The maps look similar but Evolved. (Of course It's not just the LOOK of The world that helps me - Storyline does too.)

[Discord]

The maps look similar but Evolved. (Of course It's not just the LOOK of The world that helps me - Storyline does too.)

Well, could you explain the storyline similarities?

About the maps, no, they aren't evolved. Geologically speaking they are completely different; no common heights, no similar tectonic plates, nothing. They tend to have sharp edges, but that doesn't have anything to do with evolution of the landscape. It's nothing but the love to sharp edges of the artist who drew them(relating to "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"), maybe he wanted to win a competition.:)

[Future Esthar]

The map of FF7 is actually very similar to Centra era if you look at it.


FE, please, could you give a detailed explanation of the bird-dilemma? What did you mean?


The birds are normal,that´s it.

[Noj_R]

OK, ill "assume" your theories are relevant... Now, show us some facts to back up your theorys, and I mean in game facts/occurances that are relevant to your stand...

and I would like to see some proof by your binary association method...:eep:


Who said anything about dinosaurs evolving into birds :s Evolution can be as simple as growing an extra finger. For example, Men have nipples but do not use them like women. By having them, it suggests that once we perhaps did use them. And have evolved because as the male of the species (and the hunter/supplier) we have left this part of parenting to the female. I realise ive spun into a theory of my own, but this would strongly suggest that evolution at least exists, even if you refuse to believe it


And about the evolution sub-topic... We started this topic on a couple of things: Antibiotic resistant starins of bacteria - those were man induced immunities, evolution? no. The gill in fetus proof - a fraud made up by a dead evolutionist those "gills" are pouches that develop important organs ( that is fact ), evolution? no. A simple thing like an extra finger? no, no new genetic material is created, it was simply a genetic mistake ( and mistakes are not evolutionary ). Evolution? no.

You see... There is no evidence for evolution. We have been taught to believe it through our school biology classes. But everyone can figure out that evolution isnt even science because it CANNOT be observed ( that is science 101, for something to be scientific it must be able to be observed ).

And how do you think evolution works without creating new genetic material? Is it possible for a single celled organism to grow into a human and a dog and a cat over millions of years of evolution without new genetic material being made? You know the answer to that...

You guys arent dumb, you can think for yourselves and see that every evolutionary theory has no proof to back it up and is not scientific without observation ( of which there has been none )...:)

[Future Esthar]

Thank you.
I will do it tomorrow.Time to sleep.

[BG-57]

Future Esthar, what are the walls made of if birds don't run into them?

Noj_R, I did a websearch for material on gill slits. So far every one that I've read that claims gill slits were a myth are Creationist sites. Make of that what you will.

I do admire your convictions and the passion with which you defend them. But we'll have to agree to disagree here.

[Noj_R]

Future Esthar, what are the walls made of if birds don't run into them?

Noj_R, I did a websearch for material on gill slits. So far every one that I've read that claims gill slits were a myth are Creationist sites. Make of that what you will.

I do admire your convictions and the passion with which you defend them. But we'll have to agree to disagree here.

Thanks for the compliment, did you check out the book " Medical Embryology ", and the evolutionist who claimed this as proof confessed it ( amongst other things ) as false before he died.

I am goin to bed :)

I shall be back tomorrow...Count on it...

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

hey! if ur going to start an arguement on evolution, start ur own thread.
also, if ur going to start talking about how FF games can be set on the same planet, again, start ur own thread pls.

yes.
that can't be right. If birds can't pass throught the walls then they'd hit it going at high speeds and then fall in the water and die. there would be a line of dead birds in the sea somewhere in the game, but there isn't so u have failed to prove that and ur syaing they don't because u can't say that they were possessed by Hyne.


What bird theory?I made no bird theory.

Bynary association method.

This method consists of making an association between two similar events being these events the only two ones on the game.It also relates to the recognition of patters between two related events(unique ones).This method has flaws but give the best and most accurate results.


Quasi binary

like the binary but more than two events appear.More flawed than binary.

stop using that method as an excuse for making theories that do not make sense. that method is completely irrelevant to the subject as well. give reasons for evidence pls.

[Shin Gouken]

OK, ill "assume" your theories are relevant... Now, show us some facts to back up your theorys, and I mean in game facts/occurances that are relevant to your stand...

and I would like to see some proof by your binary association method...:eep:




And about the evolution sub-topic... We started this topic on a couple of things: Antibiotic resistant starins of bacteria - those were man induced immunities, evolution? no. The gill in fetus proof - a fraud made up by a dead evolutionist those "gills" are pouches that develop important organs ( that is fact ), evolution? no. A simple thing like an extra finger? no, no new genetic material is created, it was simply a genetic mistake ( and mistakes are not evolutionary ). Evolution? no.

You see... There is no evidence for evolution. We have been taught to believe it through our school biology classes. But everyone can figure out that evolution isnt even science because it CANNOT be observed ( that is science 101, for something to be scientific it must be able to be observed ).

And how do you think evolution works without creating new genetic material? Is it possible for a single celled organism to grow into a human and a dog and a cat over millions of years of evolution without new genetic material being made? You know the answer to that...

You guys arent dumb, you can think for yourselves and see that every evolutionary theory has no proof to back it up and is not scientific without observation ( of which there has been none )...:)



W/e tbh. How do you suggest we got here then smartarse? I suppose you think god made us eh? Well don't give me that god bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif because that is simply faith and has no evidence whatsoever

Fact is, Theories on evolution make perfect sense. And yet you refuse to believe them. maybe you are not the best person to be arguing with FE on his theories tbh

[Future Esthar]

stop using that method as an excuse for making theories that do not make sense. that method is completely irrelevant to the subject as well. give reasons for evidence pls.

That´s the best we can get.That´s the method Square enables us to make theories about non explicit things.They almost allways create similar events to give hints to players.
It´s IMPOSSIBLE to make theories about things that weren´t expliciting on the game script without using this method.


that can't be right. If birds can't pass throught the walls then they'd hit it going at high speeds and then fall in the water and die. there would be a line of dead birds in the sea somewhere in the game, but there isn't so u have failed to prove that and ur syaing they don't because u can't say that they were possessed by Hyne.


Birds travel with little speed.They would not fall because:
1-They would immediately gain flight again should they stomp on the wall.After all wings would not be broken.
2-They had good memory so they would not make the same mistake .And the best:
3-Birds can perceive they surroundings using non visible electomagnetic waves(or something like that).
That didn´t happen:

Balamb-There are birds there but they never get out of the region.In fact there were times were it seems that they touched something because they suddenly changes direction.

Balamb Garden FMV-The same happens.But people think they change direction because of garden.

[Omnislash07]

Dude birds fly into windows...
Dont even say that they can avoid invisible walls but not windows.

[Discord]

That´s the best we can get.That´s the method Square enables us to make theories about non explicit things.They almost allways create similar events to give hints to players.
It´s IMPOSSIBLE to make theories about things that weren´t expliciting on the game script without using this method.


FE, get over it. FF is made for entertainment, i.e. having good time. It’s a theatrical production with many elements of… theater in it. Theater is based upon conventions, thus what is no in script doesn’t exist.

If you’d see a whole in the textures of Cloud model in FF7:AC, would you tell me that a part of his brain has been actually magically warped away?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

That´s the best we can get.That´s the method Square enables us to make theories about non explicit things.They almost allways create similar events to give hints to players.
It´s IMPOSSIBLE to make theories about things that weren´t expliciting on the game script without using this method.



Birds travel with little speed.They would not fall because:
1-They would immediately gain flight again should they stomp on the wall.After all wings would not be broken.
2-They had good memory so they would not make the same mistake .And the best:
3-Birds can perceive they surroundings using non visible electomagnetic waves(or something like that).
That didn´t happen:

Balamb-There are birds there but they never get out of the region.In fact there were times were it seems that they touched something because they suddenly changes direction.

Balamb Garden FMV-The same happens.But people think they change direction because of garden.
no, birds fly at high speeds and they go even faster because of the wind speed (birds do not fly into wind just so u know). They may not make the same mistake because they're dead the first time they try. and the perceiving surroundings by using electromagnetic waves has already been disproven by the fact that they run into windows. and with the next sentences about it seeming that birds touched something, that's another one of ur theories. and no ur method isn't the only option.

[Future Esthar]

and the perceiving surroundings by using electromagnetic waves has already been disproven by the fact that they run into windows.

Closed windows? I had birds and everytime they scape from the cage and hit a wall they never died(with or without wind).

[Fatal Impurity]

okay this thread is getting WAY too confusing for me!!! there is theories flying around left, right and center! its INSANE!!! *runs outside slams the door and screams!*

[Discord]

Closed windows? I had birds and everytime they scape from the cage and hit a wall they never died(with or without wind).

How are close windows related to birds crashing to death? I've heard no theories from any leading research groups, about birds having any of those senses. Electromagnetic waves sensing birds? Birds do not sense anything similar. They are sensitive to touch. Some species, hawks for example, have good sight, some don't, like hens. But they do not sense electromagnetic waves, which are actually in debate of being waves.

Now if some smart-ass will think of saying that bats sense electromagnetic fields, and I feel that someone is just thinking about that, no they do not. They just send ultra-waves and receive a feedback from the object. Similar to radars.

Now FE, if you want to support your position on the birds vs. non-existent hol walls, do so and explain exactly what happens to them? I mean exactly. Quit saying, "post you tomorrow!" Think through it and give a full response. If you choose not to support the theory any longer, state it openly, here and now. This discussion has been pointless from it's start, people see it, and if you want to save your argument by any possible way, do as I advised above.

[MJN SEIFER]

Actually no its not. Midgar cannot be three different cities in the future because it was destoyed at the end of 7 and never rebuilt.



If you look at the end of FFVII you can see part of Midgar being rebuilt during the 500 years clip.

And it's entirly possible for a city to be devided. concidering what happens at the end of FFVII A lot of place get sepperated. And If you look you can see obvious evidense these places WERE Midgar at one point (Deling and FH is obvious)

[Fatal Impurity]

for gods sake!!! none of the ffs are EVER in the slightest related!!! how could you ever dispute this when everyone on the production team openly says this!!!

[Desert Wolf]

for gods sake!!! none of the ffs are EVER in the slightest related!!! how could you ever dispute this when everyone on the production team openly says this!!!

Seriously guys.This was old after the first 200 hundered posts.Forget it.

[dante the demon prince]

well ffx and x2 are realated i think maybe

[Desert Wolf]

Have you any proof to back up that ridiculess statement?

[Fatal Impurity]

yeah but that is the OBVIOUS exception! but none of the other ffs are related! and concerning desert wolfs comment: its their fault for getting their hopes up! i dont like argueing with people but they are quite obviously WRONG!!!

[Desert Wolf]

Why its fun.j/k:D

[dante the demon prince]

acutaly all the ffs that have gfs sommons exct......... are all realated just because they have gfs sommons ecxt...........

[Future Esthar]

If it´s not electromagnetic waves it is radiation.
What matters is that birds has non-light sources of detection.And the hol walls use just light.

for gods sake!!! none of the ffs are EVER in the slightest related!!! how could you ever dispute this when everyone on the production team openly says this!!!


The production lied to add a surprise efect to the FFs.

[Desert Wolf]

If you can give me complete proof that they lied then i will never bother you again.

[dante the demon prince]

shut up dude your annoying

[Future Esthar]

Look at this story I developed.It´s about a city that explodes when someone go eat some cookies.

Stephanie says to Philip:

What the hell is that on your hand?

Philip says:

It´s a red cylindrical box with some cookies inside.Can´t you see?
I am gonna eat them now.

Stephanie:
Oh,I see.
(there was a guy with a paint brush on his hands near Philip).

Some minutes later the city explode with a nuclear explosion.

[Desert Wolf]

ROFL!What the hell whs that!?!LMAO!

[Future Esthar]

Do you believe me?

[dante the demon prince]

it funny yup yup

[Desert Wolf]

About what?Cookies causing disasters?

[Future Esthar]

When I said "someone go eat some cookies."

[dante the demon prince]

duh dumb ass

[xancithus]

MMM cookies.... :D

[dante the demon prince]

shut up

[Desert Wolf]

When I said "someone go eat some cookies."

Couldnt have just said it no?

[Future Esthar]

why?

[MJN SEIFER]

If it´s not electromagnetic waves it is radiation.
What matters is that birds has non-light sources of detection.And the hol walls use just light.


The production lied to add a surprise efect to the FFs.

I'm not ACTUALLY alowed to say this anymore but I have heard Square say that FFs are related. (Sorry admins)

[Omnislash07]

If you look at the end of FFVII you can see part of Midgar being rebuilt during the 500 years clip.

And it's entirly possible for a city to be devided. concidering what happens at the end of FFVII A lot of place get sepperated. And If you look you can see obvious evidense these places WERE Midgar at one point (Deling and FH is obvious)

I guess you havent read On the Way to a Smile (the story about Denzel) because it clearly states that after it was destoyed Midgar was deserted and then a NEW city was built somewhat nearby using the scraps of Midgar. The new city is called Edge. Also how is it obvious that FH is Midgar? FH is a city built on a net thing over an OCEAN. Midgar was built on the ground.

[dante the demon prince]

yo is day which it

[Future Esthar]

Ok,it is Edge then.

[dante the demon prince]

what

[Omnislash07]

Ok,it is Edge then.

That makes no sense. Why would the people decide to change the name of the city? Also Edge doesnt look like Midgar so your argument that the cities in 8 look like it wont work.

[MJN SEIFER]

Also how is it obvious that FH is Midgar? FH is a city built on a net thing over an OCEAN. Midgar was built on the ground.



I will post the apropriate pictures when I can.

I already explained that Midgar(d) was divided. So FH isn't Midgar it's PART of it.

And FH isn't bulit ON an ocean that's impossible it would SINK!

It's built on an Island type area.


As You've probly guessed I'll post more later.

[Noj_R]

FE, get over it. FF is made for entertainment, i.e. having good time. It’s a theatrical production with many elements of… theater in it. Theater is based upon conventions, thus what is no in script doesn’t exist.

This statement is true, and I agree ;) . If its not in the script it has absolutely NO relevance, it is simply fluff to fill in the gaps. There is no real "inner game" called " Hyne Possession VI " hidden underneath the cover up game Final Fantasy VIII...

Of course the game has " deep " stuff in it. But Hyne possession, birds that dont die when they fly into a timewarp forcefield thing ( but people can ie. ragnarok ), amongst other perverse ideas are REALLY off the rocker ( Im not dissin you FE ), it just doesnt feel quite right...


W/e tbh. How do you suggest we got here then smartarse? I suppose you think god made us eh? Well don't give me that god bull/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif/xxx.gif because that is simply faith and has no evidence whatsoever

Fact is, Theories on evolution make perfect sense. And yet you refuse to believe them. maybe you are not the best person to be arguing with FE on his theories tbh

I didnt say anything about God, that has about as much evidence as evolution ( which is none ). They both have one thing in common though, they are both faith based. Evolution has never been observed before and neither has creation, thus they are both proofless theories.

Theories on evolution dont make sense, I just shot down three evolution instances of "proof" ( see earlier posts ).

Im not indoctrintating or forcing anyone to believe anything, I'm simply showing you something they dont teach in biology at the high school...At school they only give you half truths and lies, evolution is NOT a fact and NOT a science, but is a theory and should be taught as such ( but they dont ) It's just as relevant the theory of intelligent design because they both have no evidence, are not science, and must be believed with faith...:eep:


well ffx and x2 are realated i think maybe

That was funny:p

Hey Future Esthar, I told you I would assume your theories are relevant. Now give me some cold hard proof. Proof that is present in the game and is actually meritable...

[xancithus]

What? How does evoulotion have no proof. The finches in the galapagos islands evolve every year to suit their food source thats proof.

I have to agree that FF is only a game. It is made to provide us entertainment and square money.

[Omnislash07]

No FH is built in the middle of the ocean, there are no islands in the area. It is just a small town built off of the Horizon Bridge going across the ocean.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

If it´s not electromagnetic waves it is radiation.
What matters is that birds has non-light sources of detection.And the hol walls use just light.

bull! for one, birds have good sight. things that are see through they can't see because with their eyes they see only air in the area of the clear thing. no radiation, no EMW. they'll hit the holo walls and fall into the sea and die! no excuses! :mad:

[Noj_R]

bull! for one, birds have good sight. things that are see through they can't see because with their eyes they see only air in the area of the clear thing. no radiation, no EMW. they'll hit the holo walls and fall into the sea and die! no excuses! :mad:

Exactly, birds do not possess such capabilities. Bats have sonar equipment, not birds. I have birds fly into my/others windows all the time. I guess they may be experiencing technical difficulties with their sixth sense?:confused:

And that does not explain why Squall and co. can commute through the portal by walking and/or vehicle ( ie the raganorok anyone ) without the wall zapping or blocking them.

Why in hell would there be holographic, time warping, force field whatevers in the middle of the continent in the first place??? It is just NOT logical...

FE you still have yet to give us proof, you said you would last night, so...where is it? All ive read so far is more theories, the newest one being Hyne is Dr. Odine ( evangelical thread ), which makes no sense at all...

I demand an explanation.


What? How does evoulotion have no proof. The finches in the galapagos islands evolve every year to suit their food source thats proof.

I have to agree that FF is only a game. It is made to provide us entertainment and square money.

While I agree that FF8 is only a game, we disagree on the finches proof...

Ah, the lovely finches of the famous Galapagos. Many think that the finches evolve to suit their needs, but of course they do not. First off, you say they evolve every year, but evolution is supposed to take millions of years to occur, does it not... The finch world is like so, one year there are many edible seeds, all finches eat freely and are happy. In the next few years there is a shortage of seeds, but many bugs hide in the tree bark, the finches with longer beaks can reach them to eat. The finches with shorter beaks cannot quite reach the bugs, so they starve and die. The longer finches thrive and now there are lots of long beaked finches.

A zoology professor Peter Grant held an 18 year study of the finches, he estimated at the current rate of generational changes ( the info gleaned from the beak incident ), that it would take only 1200 years to transform the medium ground finch into the cactus finch , to convert to a larger ground finch only 200 years.

No, this does not qualify as proof for evolution. The finches have not created new genes, they have simply gotten bigger/smaller through process of elimination. Evolution states that it should take millions of years for such events to occur, yet they only take place in a few hundred years and have not evolved.

The theory of evolution could be as stated as this: any creature that develops into a different superior creature by growing new genetic material over a period of millions of years has evolved. The finches have shown no such behavior, thus it is not evolution.

The finches show no signs of new genetic material ( the foundation of evolution ), thus they have not evolved.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

actually, it does. evolution is the longer process of natural selection practically. through natural selection animals use what they need to survive and is then strengthened. after a couple thousand years or even millions the animal looks quite different than it was before. evolution is again a theory, i agree, but it does explain why animals have many different looks. also, evolution does not state anything about new genetic material. it is only enhanced.

[Noj_R]

actually, it does. evolution is the longer process of natural selection practically. through natural selection animals use what they need to survive and is then strengthened. after a couple thousand years or even millions the animal looks quite different than it was before. evolution is again a theory, i agree, but it does explain why animals have many different looks. also, evolution does not state anything about new genetic material. it is only enhanced.

New genetic material is the foundation of evolution, the main argument being a single celled organism evolved into mankind. A single celled organism MUST aqcuire new genetic material to make that leap, right? No? Then how else? Evolution's "goal" is to continually improve itself and it has to acquire the new genetics to make the extra leap.

Yes, the animals will look different, but that isnt evolution. No new genetic material is present they simply improve upon what they have ( like the finches ) . Chihuahuaas and Saint Bernards do LOOK different, but they are still dogs nonetheless. Black people and white people are still human...:greenie:

Where did FE go...?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

I never heard evolution say we came from single celled organisms. I'm pretty sure it said we came from primates. Another thing, no, evolution is not based off of new genetic material forming. as i said before, it's just natural selection but waaaaay longer. by the way, new genetics? all organisms have the same genes but are different in a sense that their genes make what they look like and our genes make what we look like.

[BG-57]

I know I'm going to regret this. :greenie:

Organisms actually can aquire new genetic material but that process is transformation, not evolution. Frederick Griffith and Oswald Avery did a series of experiments that indicated that one strain of bacteria (smooth) was able to transmit some of it's DNA to another strain (rough), and some of those rough cells transformed into smooth cells.

Evolution is a process where existing DNA in populations gradually accumulate small changes in base sequences, some beneficial, some not, depending on the conditions. Existing DNA is being modified, not new DNA that is being created. What you call mistakes are certainly unintended, at least from the point of view of the organism, but that does not mean they are purely destructive. We would all be the same if not for these mutations.

[Omnislash07]

I never heard evolution say we came from single celled organisms. I'm pretty sure it said we came from primates. Another thing, no, evolution is not based off of new genetic material forming. as i said before, it's just natural selection but waaaaay longer. by the way, new genetics? all organisms have the same genes but are different in a sense that their genes make what they look like and our genes make what we look like.

Exactly, if everything came from the same single celled organisms then every creature has the same genes. Different parts of DNA are used for different organisms.

[BackRoomKid]

this thread went off on a tangent

[BG-57]

It's what happenes when Future Esthar's theories are compared to the theory of evolution.

It's bound to be controversial. :eep:

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

I know I'm going to regret this. :greenie:

Organisms actually can aquire new genetic material but that process is transformation, not evolution. Frederick Griffith and Oswald Avery did a series of experiments that indicated that one strain of bacteria (smooth) was able to transmit some of it's DNA to another strain (rough), and some of those rough cells transformed into smooth cells.

Evolution is a process where existing DNA in populations gradually accumulate small changes in base sequences, some beneficial, some not, depending on the conditions. Existing DNA is being modified, not new DNA that is being created. What you call mistakes are certainly unintended, at least from the point of view of the organism, but that does not mean they are purely destructive. We would all be the same if not for these mutations.
wait...tell me how that strain got from one strand to another. if it was that frederick guy and the oswald guy then that was just an experiment and does not provide any proof for evolution cuz that wouldn't have happened naturally and that is not part of evolution. what u say about the small changes in DNA is true. that is what i said. natural selection is what causes these changes.


Exactly, if everything came from the same single celled organisms then every creature has the same genes. Different parts of DNA are used for different organisms. actually, we use all of our DNA. we use each part of information on it to make who we are. every organism has the same number of codes on their DNA. so we pretty much have the same genes just really different information.

[Future Esthar]

This should really be moved to evc forums(kidding):D :D :D

It´s impossible to give proofs of my theories.
If one can not even find them for R=U and Squall=Laguna+Raine´s sun (SLR) theories how can we find for my more farfetched ones?

[BG-57]

A more detailed explanation:

Griffith found smooth cells caused pneumonia in mice. The rough strain of the same species didn't. After heating cultures of smooth cells over flame to kill them, they no longer caused infections. But rough cells that were incubated with heat killed smooth cells eventually included cells that were smooth and capable of causing pneumonia. He suggested some factors were crossing from the dead smooth cells to the living rough cells. He couldn't pin down what factor it was though.

Avery picked up years later with the same setup, but using two batches of dead smooth/living rough cells; one batch with enzymes that destroyed protein, fats, and sugars, the other that destroyed just DNA. When the DNA was destroyed, transformation did not occur. When the molecules other than DNA were destroyed, transformation occured. The implication was that DNA from the dead smooth cells crossed through the cell membranes of the rough cells.

Mechanisms by which DNA can cross between bacterial cells is now well documented.

I was not suggesting that transformation is evolution, but it is a way for organisms to get new DNA and genes.


This should really be moved to evc forums(kidding)

It´s impossible to give proofs of my theories.
If one can not even find them for R=U and Squall=Laguna+Raine´s sun (SLR) theories how can we find for my more farfetched ones?

I have never agreed with you more. Well, except for SLR.

[Leeza]

Dante the demon prince: Do not tell any member on this site to shut up or call them a dumb ass. You are getting a warning for the posts that you have made in this thread.

Anyone elso who posts in this thread to diss or insult or flame will also be getting a warning.

FE: I suggest you start to back up your claims or your threads will start to get closed.

[Omnislash07]

actually, we use all of our DNA. we use each part of information on it to make who we are. every organism has the same number of codes on their DNA. so we pretty much have the same genes just really different information.

No parts of our DNA are selected to be used to contruct us not the entire thing. Thats why we look similar to primates but not exactly, we have the same DNA we just use different parts of it.

[Noj_R]

This should really be moved to evc forums(kidding):D :D :D

It´s impossible to give proofs of my theories.
If one can not even find them for R=U and Squall=Laguna+Raine´s sun (SLR) theories how can we find for my more farfetched ones?

You said there was proof through your binary/ quasi association method ( i think i said it right:rolleyes2 ). Well... Where is it?

The R=U has no proof.

But the Squall = Laguna's son has surpringly lots of evidence:

1. Kiro's comment to Squall about him looking like his Mother
2. Laguna has the Squall Triple Triad Card...kinda suspicious...
3. Raine died around the same time Squall's Mother did, another "coincidence".

There are others but those are the main ones. I'm not saying I believe it, but there IS very strong evidence supporting this theory.

The R = U has zero evidence, as does FE's theories...FE how about giving us some in game evidence supporting your stand like the example above. We would then understand a little...well maybe not...But anyway. how bout it? SOUNDS GREAT! :D

[Future Esthar]

Raine died around the same time Squall's Mother did, another "coincidence".

How do you know when Squall´s mother died?



Kiro's comment to Squall about him looking like his Mother


I am sure there were lots of woman on FF8 who looks like Squall.


Laguna has the Squall Triple Triad Card...kinda suspicious...

Ma Dincht also has Zell´s card.That´s because she meet him.
Maybe Squall´s parents lived on Winhill and meet Laguna.No one can say it didn´t happen.

So these things prove nothing.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

No parts of our DNA are selected to be used to contruct us not the entire thing. Thats why we look similar to primates but not exactly, we have the same DNA we just use different parts of it.
yes, every part of our DNA is used to make us. we look similar to primates because they have similar information contained on their DNA. oh and FE, don't be so ignorant. u know that the evidence he gave is pretty reasonable. Kiros wouldn't hae made that comment unless if he knew who Squall's mother was very well, and the only female u see in the game that Kiros ever actually has a conversation with is Raine.

[Omnislash07]

I cant really remember about the whole DNA thing cause its been a few years since Bio II but im pretty sure there was something about how part of the DNA strand is just useless information. But im not sure so think what you want. We really should move the whole evolution thing to a new thread if we are gonna keep talkin about it.


Ma Dincht also has Zell´s card.That´s because she meet him.

Ma Dincht has Zell's card because he was adopted by her not just because they met one time. So it stands to reason that if Zell's mom has his card then Squall's dad would have his because his mom is dead.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

i don't think we can make an evolution thread unless if it deals with FF. also, i agree with Omnislash and Noj_R on the whole thing.

[Future Esthar]

Ma Dincht has Zell's card because he was adopted by her not just because they met one time.
Of course.But she isn´t his mom.
As I said,Laguna might have meet Squall´s father on Winhill.
I think JUlia was a queen on Ulti´s castle.
I say that because we see a picture of a queen with black hair and red clothes on the castle.
That alone was a better evidence to my theory than the ones to support Squall=L+R.
I used the binary association method on this case.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

u only had one example of evidence and that is a coincidence unless if they said in the game(which they didn't). and he knows that Ma Dincht isn't Zell's mom because he said she adopted her. And u can't say that Laguna could have met Squall's father as an excuse because there is no proof, but there is evidence that laguna can be his father.

[Noj_R]

How do you know when Squall´s mother died?

Raine died when Laguna went looking for Ellone she died. Julia was already married to Callaway when this happened, Rinoa was probably already born. I'm assuming that 17 years ago this happened because Rinoa ( and Squall ) were babies...Squall also states that his parents died when he was young ( he was orphaned after all )...


I am sure there were lots of woman on FF8 who looks like Squall

Really, I didnt see any who resembled Squall ::coughRainecough:: Kiros knew Raine personally and evidence points toward this being the reason for his comment. I believe he mentions something about his father too, but I cant remember. Most of this is off the top of my head...


Ma Dincht also has Zell´s card.That´s because she meet him. Maybe Squall´s parents lived on Winhill and meet Laguna.No one can say it didn´t happen. So these things prove nothing.

Prove nothing eh? At least I presented evidence, your one to talk about proving nothing :mad: Laguna never says anything about Squall's parents, Kiros did. I didnt say I believed it, I was presenting some evidence for a theory like you should be doing.

4. The moogle smelled Squall's blood and said "Laguna!" hmm...Parents and children share the same DNA...:eep:

Im not pressing anything, but like I said earlier, you should be the one presenting evidence for your theories since your thread is about YOUR theories...


i don't think we can make an evolution thread unless if it deals with FF. also, i agree with Omnislash and Noj_R on the whole thing.

What part? Where did the monkeys come from if we evolved from monkeys? They didnt start as monkeys, they must have evolved too according to your guy's theory?

[Future Esthar]

So you are saying that if I post evidence as good as the ones behind SLR you would be convinced (or nearly convinced)?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

The moogle smelled Squall's blood and said "Laguna!" hmm...Parents and children share the same DNA...
don't u mean moomba?


What part? Where did the monkeys come from if we evolved from monkeys? They didnt start as monkeys, they must have evolved too according to your guy's theory?
what are u talking about? i just said that if they made a thread on evolution it should have to deal with FF.

[Noj_R]

So you are saying that if I post evidence as good as the ones behind SLR you would be convinced (or nearly convinced)?

Of courese! The reason no one believes you is that you NEVER post any explanations to your theories.

Even the admins shut down your threads because we all gang up on you, the reason we do is because you fail to present ANY evidence. Its always another thread another theory except you dont work on the ones you already started.

So...We are all giving you a chance to defend your theories now, gow for it!:)

EDIT: Oh yeah, it was a moomba...Too much FF:CC, I hate that game...

[Omnislash07]

Actually you could put it in the General Forums. The stuff in there doesnt have to be FF related. I think i saw one about religion in there or it could have been in the Eyes on Each Other forums. Either way you could probably post the evolution thread in either of those. Im not gonna do it cause i really dont care what other people think on the subject but if anyone else wants to go ahead.

[Future Esthar]

Thanks.I will do.I already started.
Let me just finish FF8 to put some screenshots.
I lost the saved games when I upgraded my O.S.

[Omnislash07]

I meant that the evolution thread could be put there. Not your proof. Put your proof here because this is where we are talking about it. You dont need to make an entirely new thread to post your proof.

[Fatal Impurity]

okay im gonna say this one....more.....time.....THEY ARE NOT RELATED!!! there is no timeline there is no "sons of tidus" or any other ff character (except wakka) so just leave the damn theories alone!!!

[Shin Gouken]

okay im gonna say this one....more.....time.....THEY ARE NOT RELATED!!! there is no timeline there is no "sons of tidus" or any other ff character (except wakka) so just leave the damn theories alone!!!



dude, chill out

people are entitled to believe what they want, and by you typing your opinion repeatedly and in capitals isnt going to change that

[Fatal Impurity]

i know it just infuriates me when ppl come out with obviously wrong "theories" that make no sense and are just COMPLETELY impossible such as the "relation" between the ff games!

[Discord]

Ok, I do not think that it is worth wasting my time on this anymore. The post is as empty as my stomach. Message me if this will start making sense.

[Shin Gouken]

i know it just infuriates me when ppl come out with obviously wrong "theories" that make no sense and are just COMPLETELY impossible such as the "relation" between the ff games!



haha i completley disagree with them being related too :greenie: There does seem to be a huge lack of anything that supports these theories (well......anything given so far doesn't support their theories much in my opinion) If their was something which made me go "hmmmm that's makes sense" i'd at least give them credit even if i didn't change my view :greenie:


maxgrin this will never start making sense :)

[Future Esthar]

I was replying to Noj_R

[Noj_R]

I was replying to Noj_R

Sounds good :) , looking forward to some real stuff...

[Jessweeee♪]

Ok i am NOT going to read five more pages of this. Look, the storylines are ALL different (with the exceptions of DoC and FFX-2). Yes, there will be some simalarities among the games, seeing as they are made by the same company, and are part of the same series, but the characters are different, the worlds are different (though shaped similarly), and the cultures are different. Accept it.

You were right about the year though, I'll give you that.
Um...aren't we getting just a teensy bit off-topic?

[Future Esthar]

Can´t the same company made tottaly different games?If they were similar it´s because they are the same world after geological disasters.People somehow forgot memory between the games.

[Zanius]

There are some similarities in the world map of each game, the GF names, Chocobos (like the kind of greens), the money name, items and magic...

The world landscape is marked after some big collapse or something like that... it's possible that all the Final Fantasy series can be connected. Or maybe I am wrong...

[Future Esthar]

That´s it

[Discord]

That´s it

Nay, it isn't. You can have FF:SE, our world in hightech era, connected with FFV, where you have chocobos, magic and demons.

[Zanius]

That´s it

Was it something that I just said? :confused:

[Future Esthar]

what is FF:SE?

[Discord]

what is FF:SE?

My pardon, FF:SW it is. Spirits Within, the film.

[Future Esthar]

You can have FF:SE, our world in hightech era, connected with FFV, where you have chocobos, magic and demons.

I don´t see where this contradicts what Soul Hunter said

[Zanius]

My pardon, FF:SW it is. Spirits Within, the film.

Well in the FF7 Advent Children there wasn't Chocobos, but it doesn't mean that they aren't there...

As for those FF V and the FF SW are mentioned the high tech time, like the FFX before the big war between Zanarkand and Bevelle (at this time it wasn't mentioned the Chocobos, but it doesn't mean that they don't exist...).

I'm just giving the example, facts that weren’t mentioned; it doesn't mean that they don't exist...

[Discord]

Because those are two absolutely different worlds. One realistic world, a tragic world, of SW. People dies in masses in that world. It's a world of science, with Gaya and Spirits. FFV on the other hand is not scientific at all. It's a pure fantasy and a fairy tale. You have chocobos and wizards. The worlds are just completely different, do you see it.

[Neco Arc]

There are some similarities in the world map of each game, the GF names, Chocobos (like the kind of greens), the money name, items and magic...

Not necessarily. There were chocobos in Final Fantasy Adventure and other titles not directly related to the numbered final fantasy, and those games have no relevance to the numbered series. Moogles also appeared in other Seiken Densetsu games such as Secret of Mana and Seiken Densetsu 3 and Kingdom Hearts. As you can see the appearance of these show nothing of the fact that the final fantasys are connected. It is more generated towards the popularity and consistency that these creatures should appear. (These also include some weapons, magic, items, etc...)

[Zanius]

Well there are a lot of similarities between the Spirits Within and also the FF X, because of their scientific advance and other details.

For example the tragedy you mention on the FF SW with the death of a lot of people, it does happened in FF X, with the big war. And Zanarkand is the land marked with the tragedy as well.

Now not going off topic, I'm only saying that there are only similarities. They are not equal.


Not necessarily. There were chocobos in Final Fantasy Adventure and other titles not directly related to the numbered final fantasy, and those games have no relevance to the numbered series. Moogles also appeared in other Seiken Densetsu games such as Secret of Mana and Seiken Densetsu 3 and Kingdom Hearts. As you can see the appearance of these show nothing of the fact that the final fantasys are connected. It is more generated towards the popularity and consistency that these creatures should appear. (These also include some weapons, magic, items, etc...)

You're missing the point, I didn't say that they are connected; I only mention the similarities about the FF series.

In the other hand they could be connected: and I mean it could be which means could be connected or not. It's different at that point.

[Discord]

Well there are a lot of similarities between the Spirits Within and also the FF X, because of their scientific advance and other details.

For example the tragedy you mention on the FF SW with the death of a lot of people, it does happened in FF X, with the big war. And Zanarkand is the land marked with the tragedy as well.

Now not going off topic, I'm only saying that there are only similarities. They are not equal.



You're missing the point, I didn't say that they are connected; I only mention the similarities about the FF series.

In the other hand they could be connected: and I mean it could be which means could be connected or not. It's different at that point.

Never cancelled out the possibility that they could be connected, though I doubt it.

[Zanius]

One thing is right; no one can cancel or confirm such speculations. Only the people of Square can give us the proper explanation. Although I don’t believe that someday this might happen.

[Discord]

One thing is right; no one can cancel or confirm such speculations. Only the people of Square can give us the proper explanation. Although I don’t believe that someday this might happen.

Correct. Though due to the various differences in the FFs, the probability that they are not connect is a bit higher. However, you cannot be definite about either of the answers.

[Future Esthar]

What should we talk about now?

[Discord]

What should we talk about now?

Give us a theory.:)

[Zanius]

Give us a theory.:)

Yeah! ;)

[Discord]

What should we talk about now?

Or, you could try explaining the part about little mashines making wind on those holographic walls. I don't think I get it yet.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

Wow. a lot happened when i was gone. final fantasies that are not numbered, i don't think those can connect to anything. As for the numbered FFs i think they can. I don't look at it as in terms of what was there or not(even though there are chocobos in every one and moogles, Gil, items and such, but i think those are just trademarks of Square)i look that they are connected by how their technology is different. u could sort of arrange them in a timeline if u do that. it looks like u guys are done talking about this so u don't have to say anything about it.

[Discord]

FE's question is still valid. What do we talk about now?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

how about u wait until he says something. in the mean time, check out some other threads. :D

[Zanius]

Or, you could try explaining the part about little mashines making wind on those holographic walls. I don't think I get it yet.

Yeah, it's good question. ;)

[Future Esthar]

Do you remember the windmills on FH?
The wind making machines are devices like that but instead of moving by wind force it moves by electricity producing air currents.

[Zanius]

Do you remember the windmills on FH?
The wind making machines are devices like that but instead of moving by wind force it moves by electricity producing air currents.

Sort of a force field that's similar to the Esthar technology to produce a camouflage, right? Was it constructed by Hyne?

So in that way, nothing could pass on these walls...

[Future Esthar]

Common vehicles don´t achieve the necessary speed to pass this field.
However time traveling vehicles were created to achieve astounding speeds which enables them to win the wind force.

[Zanius]

Common vehicles don´t achieve the necessary speed to pass this field.
However time traveling vehicles were created to achieve astounding speeds which enables them to win the wind force.

Sounds like one of Einstein theories if you ask me. I mean to have enough speed to archive the time itself.

When you mentioned about the time travelling vehicles , could be the Ragnarock or the Lunatic Pandora?

So, the areas that are divided by these walls are sort of time barrier, and each area belongs to different age.

So Hyne picked up each area (with their own time) and made the WOTC, and the result was the present world map that we have now?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

no, we have discussed this already with FE, pls do not tempt him to discuss it again.:D

[Zanius]

Sorry, I was trying to understand his theory...

[G SpOtZ]

It's rather... hard... to fully understand his theories, as they are only theories and usually don't give enough back-up. ^_^

It's interesting though, I like you how think, FE. It's just... tiresome, every once in a while, know what I mean?

[Noj_R]

Do you remember the windmills on FH?
The wind making machines are devices like that but instead of moving by wind force it moves by electricity producing air currents.

what windmills are we talking about here?


Common vehicles don´t achieve the necessary speed to pass this field.
However time traveling vehicles were created to achieve astounding speeds which enables them to win the wind force.

What field are we talking about here too?

There is no problem assuming such things as long as there is some evidence supporting it, but where is the proof supporting these theories?

[MJN SEIFER]

It's rather... hard... to fully understand his theories, as they are only theories and usually don't give enough back-up. ^_^

He does. It's just hard to see someties (I may not have even see it all yet) He just puts things on seperate post so certain "Dimensional" readers won't read it.

I on the hand am NOT demensional so Ii have ago.

[Christmas]

Common vehicles don´t achieve the necessary speed to pass this field.
However time traveling vehicles were created to achieve astounding speeds which enables them to win the wind force.

Nonsense. We all know all time machines are inside Nobita's school desk. It is proven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doraemon).

[Future Esthar]

So, the areas that are divided by these walls are sort of time barrier, and each area belongs to different age.

So Hyne picked up each area (with their own time) and made the WOTC, and the result was the present world map that we have now?

Exactly.


what windmills are we talking about here?


English is not my first language.
I am referring to these helixes who rotates with wind force.

The field is the wind field.


Sounds like one of Einstein theories if you ask me. I mean to have enough speed to archive the time itself.

When you mentioned about the time travelling vehicles , could be the Ragnarock or the Lunatic Pandora?



No,I am talking about wind here,not time travelling.
These winds are created to prevent common vehicles to touch the walls.
It prevents people to discover the walls.
TT vehicles don´t need this because they "pass through" the walls.

The TT vehicles and propolents I know of in the game are:

Lunatic Pandora,Balamb Garden,the chocobos,Garden vessels,Galbadian missiles,Lunar Gate rockets,Ragnarok,Advanced Galbadian trains,Ultimecia´s castle,Galbadia Garden and maybe the White Seed ship.
There would probably be more.Those who pass through the walls are certainly TT vehicles.
However I believe Galbadia´s common trains,cars and the vessels on the crystal pillar excavation site to be common.

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

we've already proven that Hyne couldn't have screwed with the chocobos to make them time travel. u haven't given proof of it yet either.

[Future Esthar]

we've already proven that Hyne couldn't have screwed with the chocobos to make them time travel. u haven't given proof of it yet either.

Where?Why?

Yesterday I fought Oilboyle.
It´s body is full of oil(fuel of Garden).
The Garden is a Time travelling device.

So,what if the chocobo is a mutation of Oilboyle?
A brain and body mutation?

[Christmas]

Where?Why?

Yesterday I fought Oilboyle.
It´s body is full of oil(fuel of Garden).
The Garden is a Time travelling device.


Best one yet.

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/xoa/haha.jpg

[Zanius]

Where?Why?

Yesterday I fought Oilboyle.
It´s body is full of oil(fuel of Garden).
The Garden is a Time travelling device.

So,what if the chocobo is a mutation of Oilboyle?
A brain and body mutation?

Sorry Future Esthar, if the Oilboyle was a mutation from the Chocobo, it could have some similarities between the two species.

So the windmills are kind of security system only to give illusion to people. But these walls were made by Hyne?

And by the way, I don't consider that Chocobos are some kind of vehicle for time travelling. I would love to read your explanation about this subject...

[Noj_R]

Ok, let me get this straight, the helixs ( windmills ) create a synthetic wind so people dont know there is a city in front of them.

What proof is there that Garden is a time traveling device and what relevance does it have in the game. It never time travels in the game, so how do you know it is?

Oilboyles are really mutated chocobos...hmm...you must be joking. Good one! :D You had me goin for a sec, ok half a sec...

[Jessweeee♪]

I'm trying so hard not to read this but I can't stop! like watching a train wreck...

[Zanius]

What proof is there that Garden is a time traveling device and what relevance does it have in the game. It never time travels in the game, so how do you know it is?

Good question... indeed...

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

yeah. u know the bridge on the garden? that is open space. nothing coevering it! if there was a wind being generated from the walls then they would have felt it and there would have been like a puzzlement or something among them and would've been mentioned in the game(like: every time they go through certain areas they feel wind so they like say something while driving the garden like "i feel a breeze").

[six underground]

that blown-up picture of Raine's grave is scary.

[Future Esthar]

Ok, let me get this straight, the helixs ( windmills ) create a synthetic wind so people dont know there is a city in front of them.

And this is supposed to be an argument against...?

I admit there were no similarities between Oilboyles and Chocobos.
But there were probably transitional mutations between them.

yeah. u know the bridge on the garden? that is open space. nothing coevering it! if there was a wind being generated from the walls then they would have felt it and there would have been like a puzzlement or something among them and would've been mentioned in the game(like: every time they go through certain areas they feel wind so they like say something while driving the garden like "i feel a breeze").

Not necessarily.


What proof is there that Garden is a time traveling device and what relevance does it have in the game. It never time travels in the game, so how do you know it is?


It time travels every time it passes through an holographic wall.
Proof?
Look at this screenshot and explain to me what is that ring black thing around the Castle.The answer will surprise you (old members,be quiet please).

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/Futuresthar/UltisCastle.jpg.
This is the beggining of the proof.

[Zanius]

Lunatic Pandora,Balamb Garden,the chocobos,Garden vessels,Galbadian missiles,Lunar Gate rockets,Ragnarok,Advanced Galbadian trains,Ultimecia´s castle,Galbadia Garden and maybe the White Seed ship.
There would probably be more.Those who pass through the walls are certainly TT vehicles.
However I believe Galbadia´s common trains,cars and the vessels on the crystal pillar excavation site to be common.

I see...

[Desert Wolf]

Well i still dont agree with your theories but at least your trying to give some proof for once.

[Future Esthar]

yeah.

[Zanius]

The Castle's area represents another different time... I guess... if we pass this wall it will be like a time travelling...?

[Heero Yuy NWZC]

hey, wait a minute. u said we can't see the holo walls, and now we can see this one! ur kinda contrdicting urself here.

[Emery]

I think he's saying that you cant see the holo walls that are seen when your in the actual world, and land. But if his theory were true why would Hyne care to hide the holo walls around his castle or Ultimecia's, I doubt he ever actually expected anyone to actually get there, so he probably didnt hide them...Errr probably something like that lol. :rolleyes2

[Emery]

Also, do you guys remember those huge sorta dimensional portals, when your running on that big chain to Ultimecias castle. Maybe the holo walls are like those, just invissible and no one can see it. Why am i even trying lol ? :laughing:

[Future Esthar]

Wrong answer.

And the holo walls were solid walls.It´s the vehicles themselves who time travels.

Well,can you guess what will become of the castle on Trabia-Balamb era?
If you can it will help you see what the black thing is.
Also look at the weird shape of the castle´s floor near the edge.What did it resembles?
Note that the black thing seems to move like wind(it has nothing to do with the helixes theory).

[Zanius]

If you can it will help you see what the black thing is.
Also look at the weird shape of the castle´s floor near the edge.What did it resembles?
Note that the black thing seems to move like wind(it has nothing to do with the helixes theory).

The Balamb/Galbadia Garden. It creates a kind of circle wall that "breaks" the time barrier and then this vehicle can make a time travel…

[Future Esthar]

The Balamb/Galbadia Garden.

Exactly.

So,what is the black thing?

[Zanius]

The Garden's base which is used to keep the vehicle planning in the air?

[Future Esthar]

The Garden´s gauge.That´s correct.

[Christmas]

Those are black clouds to create a sinister effect on the castle.

[Future Esthar]

Time to post some screenshots!(Finish the game first).

[Christmas]

Take your time, you can alway come back ten years later or something, there is no hurry.

[Emery]

The Garden´s gauge.That´s correct.

Ahhh I see, that makes sense at least. :D

[Future Esthar]

By the way,yesterday I went to Trabia Garden for the flashback scene.
I noted something interesting.The missiles destroyed the Gauge.It was cut in half.And the gauge is black.It can fit the castle´s black wind very well.

[Christmas]

That is when it is burnt.

[Future Esthar]

I think even before the missiles hit the garden it looked as ancient as that.

[Zanius]

By the way,yesterday I went to Trabia Garden for the flashback scene.
I noted something interesting.The missiles destroyed the Gauge.It was cut in half.And the gauge is black.It can fit the castle´s black wind very well.

So the Trabia Garden will be transformed into the Castle in some far away future...

[Future Esthar]

I don´t know the meaning of that.
It´s hard to believe that Ulti´s time is after Trabia+Balamb time.

[Zanius]

Well you could admit that Ultimecia really belongs to the future instead from the past...

Like you said before the time order is irrelevant because the WOTC mixed up all time line from each area.

There are too many coincidences here...

[Christmas]

I think even before the missiles hit the garden it looked as ancient as that.

That is when you can actually see Trabia Garden when it is not destroyed.

[Future Esthar]

That is when you can actually see THE SECRET GAMEOVER FMV IN WHICH THE MISSILES HIT THE GARDEN AND IT REMAINS COLORFUL.
There were only pieces breaking up.It remains colorful,looking modern and recognizable.

One can clearly see it was ancient.The ancient look is not the result of a missile hit.

That very concept is plainly ridiculous.


Like you said before the time order is irrelevant because the WOTC mixed up all time line from each area.


No.Time order is relevant when you consider each era independently.For instance Winhill era is 1572 for example.
Nothing can be said about the exact dates of the other eras.

[Zanius]

That is when you can actually see THE SECRET GAMEOVER FMV IN WHICH THE MISSILES HIT THE GARDEN AND IT REMAINS COLORFUL.
There were only pieces breaking up.It remains colorful,looking modern and recognizable.

One can clearly see it was ancient.The ancient look is not the result of a missile hit.

How can you get this secret gameover FMV? :confused:


No.Time order is relevant when you consider each era independently.For instance Winhill era is 1572 for example.
Nothing can be said about the exact dates of the other eras.

Ok, I agree with you.

[Future Esthar]

You aren´t forced to.:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :D :D :D

The secret gameover screenshot appears if you choose to fight the soldiers soon and then stop the missiles without setting the error ratio(that´s what I remember).

[Fatal Impurity]

secret gameover fmv? yeah right thats bulls**t!

[Future Esthar]

That´s the name I give it.It´s the one in which the garden gets destroyed and Gameover appears.