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Viator

06-26-2006, 09:10 AM

I will try my best to explain what the meaning of "The Process of Time Compression".
Before that I want to say something.It’s about perspective.
It’s only the matter of someone’s perspective.The perspective is the way we can understand things. And if we talking about someone’s perspective it will end up with “It’s none of your business”.
So it’s the matter of perspective to make us understand something the way we want.

This thread has connection to Rev of the Truth thread because in that thread you can find many explanations which are true. Time Compression is not really a mystery to Me.
The mystery to Me is Time Decompression.
If we can say Time Compression < > Time Decompression.
But I am sure it’s more than that because The Way Time Decompression works is not only different from Time Compression but also almost impossible to understand.

Time Compression is a word same as shoothing stars,we know that is not star we see fall BUT meteor.So the meaning of Time Compression is Absorbing Time and Space NOT Compresseng Time and Space.
You CANNOT compress Time because Time is infinite.
You CAN absorb Time even Time is infinite.

Scan Ultimecia it said Absorbing Time and Space NOT compressing.
This is the proof that TC is absorbing NOT compressing.

I will tell you the Truth now.
What IF The Process of Time Compression IS The Achievement of Time Compression,why? Because Time is Infinite;this is the fact.If Time is finite that means Our lives are meaningless.

Time IS infinite hence from the proof that we still alive and always alive.Time IS infinite.
Compression is wrong,the right word is 'Absorb'.
There's different between compress and absorb.
How can you compress something infinite?
But you can absorb something infinite.

Why Squall and Co can go through TC to the future inside Lunatic Pandora and why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic Pandora?
The answer is because Ultimecia cast TC and because of Ellones power.
No 2 is the most important part because that is the event Squall and Co go to the future.
Then why ONLY in Lunatic Pandora;Squall and Co can go through TC and go to the future?
It's because the 'effect' of Ellone sends Rinoa back to the present IN Lunatic Pandora will make only Squall and Co can go through TC when they inside Lunatic Pandora,while everyone else CANT.Because Lunatic Pandora is the place Ellone use her power and her power affected with TC then make ONLY Squall and Co can go to the future(The source of Ellones power at that time is inside Lunatic Pandora)That's why ONLY Lunatic Pandora is the ONLY way Squall and Co can go inside TC.That's why we can see the effect of TC.
You see when Rinoa is back to present in Lunatic Pandora Squall and Co get to Time Compression.
Why Laguna and Ellone dont get to TC too?
It is because they already out from that room
(The room when we fight Adel)
So that room is the connection to get inside TC.
Because Laguna and Ellone already out of that room they dont get inside TC,that's why ONLY Squall and Co alone can get inside TC and nobody else.

Now I realized there’s somethig more about TC.Actually there’s 2 phases of TC.
The first phase is when Squall and Co go through TC and end up in Ultimecia’s Castle in future.At this phase 1 we see the effect of TC,but after Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle in future we don’t see any effect of TC again,why?It because The phase 2 is not happen yet.What I mean is this phase 2 needs TIME to happens,that’s why we don’t see any effect of TC when Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle.Ultimecia uses this phase 1 to get back to the future to possess Her own body(If you read Rev of the Truth thread,you must know what I am talking about).
So TIME between after the Phase 1 and before the Phase 2 is the time Squall and Co kill all Ultimecia’s servant.When Squall encounter Ultimecia,She said the world was
on the brink of that ever-elusive 'time compression'.That means the phase 2 is almost begin.The phase 2 begin when we fight Ultimecia at that Final Battle. That’s why we see the effect of TC.

Now I already fully explain why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic and in the Final Battle.I realized this when I remember Squall said I don't know what's going on. But since we're still here, I think we still have “some time” to finish our job.

I will make a diagram to make you understand.

7--------------------8-----------------------9-------10----------11
|**********************************|\*** ***********/
|**********************************|*\** **********/
|**********************************|**\* *********/
|6*********************************|***\ 13******/ 14
|\*********************************|**** \******/
|*\********************************|**** *\****/
|**\*******************************|**** **\**/
|***\2*****************************|**** ***\/
|****\*****************************|**** ** / 15
|*****\****************************|**** /
|******\ **************************|***/
5*******>1------------12-----------------| /
|******/
|*****/
|****/ 3
|***/
|**/
|*/
|/
4

* = NOTHING (I just put them to make the diagram perfect).
So actually there’s NO “*” in that diagram)
1 = Rinoa (PRESENT)
2 = The way Squall and Co go through TC
3 = The way Rinoa back to the present
4 = Young Adel (past)
5 = The way Ultimecia back to the future
6 = The commencement Room
7 = Ultimecia’s Castle (Future)
8 = Time Compression
9 = Time Decompression
10 = The way Squall go to the past (Ending Event)
11 = The Ending Event (You know what I am talking about)
12 = The way Quistis,Selphie,Irvine,Zell back to present from Time Decompression
13 = The way Rinoa end up in garden BUT still in Time Decompression
14 = Squall all alone in Time Decompression World
15 = Rinoa found Squall and after that back to the present

7 - 8 = Time after Phase 1 and before Phase 2
2,4,5,6,7 = Phase 1
8-9 = Phase 2

Time between 7 and 8 not affected by TC because Phase 1 is over and phase 2 is not happen yet.

Take into account the fact that you travel through TC and LEAVE TC before ending up in Ultimecias world, before seemingly entering TC again in Ultimecias battle. Prerably, it should explain why Odine makes it sound like you couldn't actually end up anywhere BUT Ultimecias time, when the error margin are VERY slim(considering how close Ultimecia comes to full time compression).

Actually Squall and Co never leave TC, when they arrived at Ultimecia's Castle they still inside TC.
They can ONLY leave TC when Time Decompression.
When TC start there's no more past,present or future again.
There's only the "NOW" time.
So when they arrived at Ultimecia's Castle they're not in past,present or future.They only in the "NOW" time.
Yeah I know we can see they arrived in future but like I said When TC start there's no more past'present or future.There is only the "NOW" time

PS:Special thanks to Lychon for the "NOW" time.

Explain why Squall and Co were not affected by TC(ie. why weren't their own individual lines of time also compressed?)

Emotions,ect affectes with Squall and Co when they in 'The Process of Entering TC' but when they arrived inside TC emotions,etc do not affected again because 'Inside TC',emotions,etc had nothing to do with'The Process of TC'.
But after TC was over the next thing happens is Time Decompression.Time Decompression affected with emotion,ect.why?Because TD is the contrary of 'The Process of Entering TC'.
So emotions,ect only affected in 'The Process of Entering TC and 'The Process of out TC / Time Decompression

So they can survive inside TC because they are not part of Time and Space.Actually Time Compression ONLY absorb Time and Space.
Actually Human is NOT part of Time and Space.
They just exist in Time and Space.
So when Time Compression starts it only absorb Time and Space not human,Squall and Co is an EXCEPTION.

Why Time Compression had to do with love,friendship,thought,memory,emotions, etc?

Because Time Compression created by sorceress and sorceress has emotions,etc.
If Time Compression created by machine(Time Compression Device)emotion,etc wont affected because machine dont have emotions.

Now I want to talk about how Rinoa can find Squall in that place.(you know what I mean)?Rinoa can find Squall because Rinoa still in Time Decompression.When we see Rinoa running around in the garden and searching for Squall,actually she is still in Time Decompression,why?The answer is very simple.If you remember about TC event in Lunatic Pandora there’s conversation between Rinoa and Squall.

Quistis: Where are we supposed to go!?

Squall: To Edea's house!

Rinoa: I'll... Probably disappear...

Squall: Quistis: Where are we supposed to go!?

Squall: To Edea's house!

Rinoa: I'll... Probably disappear...

Squall: Just stay by my side. I won't let you disappear!!!

Rinoa said she will disappear,why? Because The Party wants to go to Edea’s House,but Rinoa doesn’t have good memory about that Edea’s House because she just go to that place once.She afraid she will disappear if she cant imagine that place but then after that Squall said just stay by my side. I won't let you disappear!!!
So Rinoa can make it together with everybody else to that place because she was with Squall.But after Squall and Co defeated Ultimecia,Rinoa doesn’t have Squall in her side, she just end up with Quistis,Selphie,Irvine and Zell.But even without Squall Rinoa still trying to imagine that garden in the orphanage but Rinoa cant make it back to that garden without Squall,so Rinoa just end up in the garden in Time Decompression World.So rinoa keep searching for Squall and finally she can find Squall because Squall in Time Decompresiion World too.When Rinoa found Squall at that place Rinoa thought Squall is death,she start thinking about The Promise they made at “that garden”,So when Rinoa hold Squall they finally can go back to “that garden” at the orphanage in the present.Because like I said Time Decompression affected with emotion,ect.So Rinoa can go back to that garden at the present because she was with Squall this time and Her emotion about The Promise at “that garden” make her back to that garden with Squall to the present time.
I hope you can imagine that.

When Squall and Co through TC they have to arrived in Commencement Room first before they can go to Ultimecias Time and Place,why is that?

Commencement Room or you can call it Genesis Room or Genesis Space(This is only what I call it).
Squall is not only arrive at Commencement Room/Genesis Space but also in Genesis Time(This is only what I call it so don’t need to argue about this Genesis Time)
This Time (Genesis Time) and Space (Commencement Room) is the first place Squall and Co arrive in TC before Squall and Co can go to Ultimecia’s Time and Space (Center of Time Compression).
The meaning of TC is absorbing Time and Space NOT compressing Time and Space.
So when this TC/Absorption starts it always absorbs the nearest Time and Space.
Squall and Co is not in the nearest Time and Space (Center of Time Compression) when they get inside TC, they are far from nearest Time and Space (Center of Time Compression) so they need to get through this Genesis Time and Genesis Space (outside part of nearest Time and Space) first before they can enter Ultimecia’s Time and Space or you can call it the center of Time Compression.

The hardest question about Time Compression is :
Why Ultimecia needs to go to the past to perform Time Compression?
Actually this is not a question, this question was only tricked us. We were tricked by this question for a long time and we were confused by this question, why? because this is not the right question.
The right question is : HOW Ultimecia performs Time Compression?
The answer is :
Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression.

We were always tricked by the fact Ultimecia go to the past, that’s why we always think she needs to go to the past to perform Time Compression.
Ultimecia doesn’t need to go to the past to perform Time Compression She ONLY needs Ellone’s Power to perform Time Compression.
Ellone’s Power can send someone's consciousness to the past.
So Ultimecia go to the past is INEVITABLE if She wants to perform Time Compression because that is how Ellone's Power works(send someone's consciousness to the past).
Ultimecia uses Ellone’s Power when she go to the past and cast Time Compression Magic to make Time Compression happens.

Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression.

The Truth is The Process of Time Compression is The achievement of Time Compression.

Addition:

Edeas initial powers = A
Adels powers = B and then after that Rinoa recieved Adels powers.
Rinoas powers = B
Ultimecias powers = (C) ; Her power is He life

Edeas powers after Ultimecia possess her = A + (C) = A(C).
Ultimecias and Edeas powersdo not added up because you can see there's "( )" ;boundary between their powers.So Ultimecia only use her own powers / (C)

I already PROVE that Rinoa only has Adels powers NOT Edeas.If you cant accept this truth you cant/wont find the answer.

Now I will tell My argument about "Time"

Time is one of the world's deepest mystery.No one can say exactly what it is. time has primarily been perceived as a virtual entity.Yet, the ability to measure time makes our way of life possible.Most human activities involve groups of people acting together in the same place at the same time.People could not do this if they did not measure time in the same way.

One way of thinking about time is a world without time.This timeless world would be at a standstill.But if some kind of change took place, that timeless world would be different "now" than it was "before".The period-no matter how brief-between "before" and "now" indicates that time must have passed.Thus,time and change are related because the passing of time depends on changes taking place.In real world,changes NEVER STOP HAPPENING,that means TIME IS INFINITE.Some changes seem to happen only once,like the falling of a particular leaf.Other changes happen over and over again,like the breaking of waves against the shore.

Any change that takes place again and again stands out from other changes.The rising and setting of the sun examples of such change.The first people to keep time probably counted such natural repeating events and used them to keep track of events that did not repeat.

Now I will use formula to determine Time compression and Time Decompression.

Space = Time : Energy

Space = Total space caused by Time Decompression.
I think it infinite because time never stop.

Time = Time after Ultimecia defeated;after Time Decompression began
We will never know how much time it takes.
But I believe it infinite.

Time = Space : Energy(gravity)

Energy = Energy that produced after Ultimecia defeated;Time Decompression Energy.

I will use Gravitation's Formula to get Energy's formula.

Gravity = Energy : Space

With this we can get Energy's Formula.

Energy = gravitation : Space(cm3)

Gravitation is UNKNOWN because we cant predict the gravity in Time Decompression Condition.

In Time Decompression quant space the energy in cm3 declines but the total quant energy is maintained constants.
That means energy always constants.

When space grows time also expands and energy decreases inversely in cm3 proportion, hence the energy per cubic cm decreases but total quantum energy is preserved (constants).

Energy that get absorbed inside TC is equal with Energy emited after TC ended;when Time Decompression began.

Energy TC < = > Energy TD

I can only show the formula but I cant carculate it because we will never know the physics law in Time Decompression Condition.Even though these formulas is absolute in any universe (I think).

According to wave theory, time, space, and energy, are the three media that are woven together, (quant, wave formation). Wave theory shows how each has its own properties and behaviors, but one can not exist without the others, more over, each proposes explanation for the others, time alone do not exist, time shows some energetic activity in some space.

This theory shows us that time,space and energy are one entity.

In Newton's absolute universe, time — as well as energetic matter and space — have neither a beginning nor an end as a main dimension. On the other hand, Einstein's relative time does contain a beginning and end together with the appearance of a formation and disperse, again to the universe's, (to main dimensions) to form new energetic formations (relative time) . Absolute time cannot exist without relative time and vice versa. Newton's absolute time is allied to universal dimension and Einstein's time (relative time) is allied to energetic matter formations.

Summary:

Time, as space and energy is a dimension of the universe.

Without "Energetic Activity" and space time would not exist.

This "Energetic Activity" in FF8 is "Energy" caused by Time Decompression Energy.
Einstein’s theories of general and special relativity can be used to actually prove that time travel is possible.

Originally Posted by autonomy principle:
The proposal of time travel is backed by scientific theory, but that is not enough to make it realistically possible. Numerous arguments are proposed that that prevent time travel into the past. Both common sense and scientific fact construct serious obstacles. A major argument against time travel into the past is called the autonomy principle, better know as the grandfather paradox. This paradox is created when a time traveler goes back in time to meet his or her grandfather. Now upon their introduction it would be possible to change the course of events that lead up to your grandfather and grandmother marrying. You could tell him something about a family secret to convince him you are who you say you are, and he may proceed to tell his soon to be wife. She may in turn doubt his sanity and have him committed. Thus your grandparents would never have your mother, and therefore you couldn’t be born! But then how could you have ever existed to travel back in time if you don’t exist? You would have had to have been created via autonomy. The next question would be, if your mother was never born, then when you return to the future would anything you did in your life exist? Or would you, your friends, your home etc. never have existed? This is clearly an inconsistency paradox that would rule out time travel, yet interestingly enough the laws of physics do not forbid such excursions. The multiverse concept eradicates the problem of the autonomy principal, because it allows time travel to the past, but to a different universe. You would meet the person who was your grandfather in your universe, but never married your grandmother in his universe. In the universe that you traveled to, you never existed.

Originally Posted by chronology principal:
Another argument of impossibility is called the chronology principal. This principal states that time travelers could bring information to the past that could be used to create new ideas and products. This would involve no creative energy on the part of the "inventor." Imagine that Pablo Ruiz y Picasso, the most influential and successful artist of the 20th century, were to travel back in time to meet his younger self. Assuming he stays in his correct universe, he could give his younger self his portfolio containing copies of his paintings, sculptures, graphic art, and ceramics. The young version of Picasso could then meticulously copy the reproductions, profoundly and irrevocably affecting the future of art. Thus, the reproductions exist because they are copied from the originals, and the originals exist because they are copied from the reproductions. No creative energy would have ever been expended to create the masterpieces! 3 This chronology principal rules out travel into the past.

This is just another problem about time Travel BUT in FF8,time travel will not change anything because what happened had happened and cant changed the past,present or future (this time travel only to completed the past NOT to changed the past).The effect of time travel in FF8 is nessecary to make FF8 universe like the way we see in the game happens!!!.

A notion that was once nothing more than science fiction, is now a concept that’s becoming reality. Einstein’s theories of general and special relativity can be used to actually prove that time travel is possible, and research has shown that fast moving craft can travel into the future. Time dilation is the easiest method because it merely requires high velocity motion to experience time travel.3 Phenomena known as wormholes and closed timelike curves are possible means of time travel into the future and the past.4 Traveling into the past is a task which is much more difficult however. Its theory involves complicated scenarios of tears in four dimensional space-time, energy equivalent to that of an exploding star, and traveling near the speed of light. Both common sense and scientific fact can be used to paint scenarios that become serious obstacles. Yet even these hindrances can be explained away! If the multiverse concept is reality, then most present ideas of time travel are based on a false reality. If time travel is completely impossible then the reason has yet to be discovered.

multiuniverse actually exist but human only MISUNDERSTAND with universe's theories,that's why they still cant find the answer.TIME TRAVEL IS POSSIBLE IN REALITY WITHOU CREATING NEW UNIVERSE (YOU CAN SEE IT IN FF8) IT ONLY HARD/ALMOST IMPOSIBLE TO EXPLAIN IT BY WORDS.

Time travel is possible in real life according to Einstein’s theories of general and special relativity.

But in FF8 time travel caused by magic that means Einstein's theories is NOT valid to explain time travel in FF8.
So we have to make new theory to explain this phenomena.(I will tell you this new theory in another episode,so stay tuned)

When TC happens it's not only absorb time and space but also energy because according to wave theory, time, space, and energy, are the three media that are woven together, (quant, wave formation). Wave theory shows how each has its own properties and behaviors, but one can not exist without the others, more over, each proposes explanation for the others, time alone do not exist, time shows some energetic activity in some space.

This theory shows us that time,space and energy are one entity.

The proof TC absorb energy is sorceresses' powers.
Sorceress' power is some kind of energy.
ThaT's why Ultimecia can absorb all soeceresses' powers when TC happens.But when TD happens all sorceresses's power back to the owners on their time and space.Ultimecia only has her powers when TC is over.

Special Law of Time Compression.

1.Energy
Energy that get absorbed inside TC is equal with Energy emited after TC ended;when Time Decompression began.
In Time Decompression quant space the energy in cm3 declines but the total quant energy is maintained constants.
That means energy always constants.
Energy TC < = > Energy TD

2.Time
Time needed in the process of TC is the same with the time needed in the process of TD but time that get absorbed inside TC is not equal with time that out of TC/after TC over because Time is Relative but equal with total space that out of TC/after TC over.

Maybe this is the reason why Squall end up in the past.

3.Space
Total space that get absorbed inside TC is more solid than Space outside of TC/space that have not get inside TC.

Maybe this is the reason why Rinoa,Quistis,Zell,Selphie and Irvine end up in that Void/White Space.

-- ----> Space <---- -- = ----> Time : Energy <----

Time Compression's Formula

<---- -- Space -- ----> = <---- Time : Energy ---->

Time Decompression's Formula

Total space that get absorbed inside TC is not the same with total space that out of TC/after TC is over because space always changing and expand but equall with total time that out of TC/after TC over.

-- ----> Space <---- -- = ----> Time : Energy <----

Time Compression's Formula

<---- -- Space -- ----> = <---- Time : Energy ---->

Time Decompression's Formula

Time has many infinite time dimensions
The number of time dimensions is infinite. This means that you cannot count how many time dimensions as it goes on forever.
Time has intervals. This means that the time dimensions have intervals between each other. In other words, it is the time difference between each time dimension. But really, there isn’t any because the difference is so small, a time dimension could equal that difference which again has interval difference that just goes on for infinity but gets smaller in difference each time.
Time force relies on itself to keep it going. This means that every time dimension there are, they are all needed to rely on each other to keep time itself going. If this is true, then time is infinite which is true and so this is true.
If time relies on itself to be infinite, then that must mean there is a loop of time.
Time is always everywhere. Wherever anything is, there will always be time.
If time exists anywhere, then in a black hole where they say there is no time, there has to be time, or everything is nothing. It only slows it down so much it hardly moves but still does move.
Time is something that passes uniformly without regard to whatever happens in the world.Time is a measure of the cycles of change within the world.
Absorbing time will make A New Dimension of Time where Any Dimension of Time (past,present,future and whatnot) exist together in That New Dimension of Time.
This New Demension of Time will keep contain All Time (past,present,future and whatnot) because time is infinite the process of absorbing time will go on forever, that's why there's 2 Ultimecias, The First Ultimecia will keep absorbing time to make The New Dimension of Time and The Second Ultimecia Ultimecia will/can reign in That New Dimension of Time.

V1470R

Outer Heaven

06-26-2006, 09:41 AM

Hey dude not trying to be a dick or anything but......Who's going to read all that?

Viator

06-26-2006, 09:46 AM

Hey dude not trying to be a dick or anything but......Who's going to read all that?

The one who want to find the Truth

Zeromus_X

06-26-2006, 09:47 AM

Isn't Time Compression time...compressed? I don't need to go through formulas to figure that out. :p Thanks for writing it up, at least.

Viator

06-26-2006, 09:54 AM

Isn't Time Compression time...compressed? I don't need to go through formulas to figure that out. Thanks for writing it up, at least.

TC is actually absorb NOT compress.

Christmas

06-26-2006, 10:32 AM

Maybe there's connection with PUPu.
Remember PuPu gives us something(PuPu card)
PuPu card can be refined into Aegis Amulet.
Aegis Amulet can be used as Eva-J or Speed Up
Maybe because of Aegist Amulet Squall and Co can survive at TC
Maybe this is the answer,maybe not,who knows...

Indeed. So if we dun do the PuPu sidequest ALL YOUR CHARACTERS will be wiped up in Disc IV in regardless of age and sex.

Viator

06-26-2006, 10:34 AM

Maybe there's connection with PUPu.
Remember PuPu gives us something(PuPu card)
PuPu card can be refined into Aegis Amulet.
Aegis Amulet can be used as Eva-J or Speed Up
Maybe because of Aegist Amulet Squall and Co can survive at TC
Maybe this is the answer,maybe not,who knows...

I will stay with this answer until I find better explaination.

Sir Bahamut

06-26-2006, 11:00 AM

Great. Viator has been sending me PM's full of this stuff for quite some time now, and obviously is not content with the fact that I don't bother answering them anymore. Now, Viator, I won't be altering the FAQ because of any of this, but will answer just those points which make some sort of sense.

I already explain it that TC effect with all of time the reason why we see it in that event was because we ONLY play the game.I hope you accept this answer if not you wont find the Truth.TheOnionKnight's explanation is NOT valid and wrong because there's no way to fully explain the effect of TC even with what we have seen in the game.This is still a mystery yet unsolved.But I wil try to solved this mystery

It's true that Onion's theory along with the rest of the time theories in the FAQ do not satisfactorily explain everything concerning TC. Specifically, as you point out, it does not fully explain why we see the effects of TC in the Lunatic Pandora but nowhere before that. But what about your later explanation of it:

Then why ONLY in Lunatic Pandora;Squall and Co can go through TC and go to the future?
It's because the 'effect' of Ellone sends Rinoa back to the present IN Lunatic Pandora will make only Squall and Co can go through TC when they inside Lunatic Pandora,while everyone else CANT.Because Lunatic Pandora is the place Ellone use her power and her power affected with TC then make ONLY Squall and Co can go to the future(The source of Ellones power at that time is inside Lunatic Pandora)That's why ONLY Lunatic Pandora is the ONLY way Squall and Co can go inside TC.That's why we can see the effect of TC.

Well, as neat as it sounds, this is not satisfactory either. All you say is "Ellone's powers affected TC to the extent that TC only appeared in that very room" but this is not backed up by anything at all. It's pure assumption on your part that her powers have this effect on TC.

So although it's a nice idea, it doesn't solve anything. The ,ystery of why we see TC where we do is unsolveable, I would say.

Scan Ultimecia it said Absorbing Time and Space NOT compressing.
This is the proof that TC is absorbing NOT compressing.

That does not constitute a proof at all. The scan can be interpreted as meaning that as time is now being compressed, Ultimecia is absorbing it bit by bit (ie. it is being compressed with Ultimecia as the centre, hence she absorbs time as it is compressed towards her). Ultimecia's compression and absorbtion are two different matters.

Your proof that time must be finite because if not our lives would be meaningless is also nonsensical.

This explanation is wrong the one who picked Irvine is Martine and NOBODY else.
Cid never know about this mission.

I did not write this text, so I cannot really answer for it, but the author said that some luck was involved (ie. Irvine was the only wildcard), and also, Cid may have assembled that team not because he knew of the sorceress assasination plan, but because he knew that's what they'd be doing sooner or later.

Now, as for the answers to my questions from year back, I believe I have answered them as best as I can already in my FAQ.

The rest of your reply I do not find serious enough to answer.

But again, not mine to answer for I'm afraid.

Serapy

06-26-2006, 11:44 AM

Remember what Laguna said after Adel defeat that he said use strong emotions (love and strong bonds) to achieve TC but Squall didn't do what Laguna said, all what Squall did was blaming himself that's why Squall didn't achieve TC and ended up on a stone land, his OP affected by Squall.. that explains why they all didn't achieve TC too. However, Rinoa wasn't affected by Squall, because Rinoa is on the other side (Ulteimca) and she came to wake Squall to end the TC.

This assumption makes sense for me, I guess.

Lychon

06-26-2006, 08:05 PM

Relax Viator...I'm writing an official FAQ that proves the possibility and plausibility of the R= U theory which I will post on GameFAQS and other websites. This FAQ will nullify Sir Bahumut's sophisms in his own FAQ, and will also put to rest your own attempts to disprove the R=U theory.

-LYCHON

P.S. The amount of paradoxes and incorrect physics I found in your FAQ Sir Bahumut was staggering....:eek: :eek: :eek: However, I support your assertion that time compression centers on Ultimecia's coordinates in the space/ time dimensional continuum. I've written and defended a similar premise. Also, don't expect my FAQ any time soon...I have too much schoolwork at the moment. :hourglas:

Sir Bahamut

06-27-2006, 12:15 AM

Hambone

06-27-2006, 12:19 AM

Hey dude not trying to be a dick or anything but......Who's going to read all that?

Zeromus_X

06-27-2006, 03:12 AM

Okay, do any of you honestly listen to yourselves? (Or, look at yourselves?) Type? You're using mothersmurfing formulas and figures and conspiracy theories to prove how a fictional plot element in a video game works physically. Do you not find that strange in the least? At any rate, from what I understand in the game, TC is just all of Time Compressed into one instant. (It's what Odine said.)

BardTard

06-27-2006, 05:17 AM

I already PROVE that Rinoa only has Adels powers NOT Edeas.If you cant accept this truth you cant/wont find the answer.

That's not true, they said in the game that "Matron passed on her powers to Rinoa" or something like that. They did! I played disc 3 like a million times cus I love it so much! So I know!

But yeah... umm interesting stuff. And if their powers just keep building up within the loop... I say they should kill Rinoa. Solution to all the problems.

Don't ask. :tonberry:

Ryushikaze

06-27-2006, 09:20 AM

Parsimonious solution to all this nonsense about power build up: ULTI DID NOT GIVE ALL HER POWER TO EDEA. Thank you. That is all.

Viator

06-27-2006, 09:21 AM

Well, as neat as it sounds, this is not satisfactory either. All you say is "Ellone's powers affected TC to the extent that TC only appeared in that very room" but this is not backed up by anything at all. It's pure assumption on your part that her powers have this effect on TC.

That room is the connection to get inside TC
The source of Ellones power at that time is inside that room.That's why only that room Squall and Co can get inside TC.

Why Laguna and Ellone dont get to TC too?
It is because they already out from that room
(The room when we fight Adel)
So that room is the connection to get inside TC.
Because Laguna and Ellone already out of that room they dont get inside TC,that's why ONLY Squall and Co alone can get inside TC and nobody else.

Ellones power is formula to make TC works.
That's why her power affected with TC.

So although it's a nice idea, it doesn't solve anything. The ,ystery of why we see TC where we do is unsolveable, I would say.

It's only the matter of perspective how you look at my explanation.
And My explanation already solved that mystery.

That does not constitute a proof at all. The scan can be interpreted as meaning that as time is now being compressed, Ultimecia is absorbing it bit by bit (ie. it is being compressed with Ultimecia as the centre, hence she absorbs time as it is compressed towards her). Ultimecia's compression and absorbtion are two different matters.

The meaning of that scan is Ultimecia is in process of absorbing Time and Space NOT compressing.How can you compress something infinite.TIME IS INFINITE.

Your proof that time must be finite because if not our lives would be meaningless is also nonsensical.

I said TIME IS INFINITE.

I did not write this text, so I cannot really answer for it, but the author said that some luck was involved (ie. Irvine was the only wildcard), and also, Cid may have assembled that team not because he knew of the sorceress assasination plan, but because he knew that's what they'd be doing sooner or later.

Seifer left Balamb Garden and go to Timber and then Quistis after him is a coincidence.Cid only assembled Squall,Zell and Selphie.Then Quistis come along with Squall and Co is the work of Fate.

Now, as for the answers to my questions from year back, I believe I have answered them as best as I can already in my FAQ.

You answer is wrong,so just accept my explanation.

The rest of your reply I do not find serious enough to answer.

You dont need to answer My explanation because My explanation is not a question.You just need to ask question.

that explains why they all didn't achieve TC too. However, Rinoa wasn't affected by Squall, because Rinoa is on the other side (Ulteimca) and she came to wake Squall to end the TC.

What do you mean THEY didnt achieve TC?
You have to know that,there is 2 process.
First = Time Compression
Second = Time Decompression.
After Squall and Co defeated Ultimecia TC is ended.
All we see after that is The Process of Time Decompression.

That's not true, they said in the game that "Matron passed on her powers to Rinoa" or something like that. They did! I played disc 3 like a million times cus I love it so much! So I know!

What the game said is wrong.You have to read Rev of the Truth thread.

Parsimonious solution to all this nonsense about power build up: ULTI DID NOT GIVE ALL HER POWER TO EDEA. Thank you. That is all.

ULTIMECIA DID GIVE ALL HER POWER TO EDEA.
If not where did it go the rest of her power(the one she doesnt give to Edea like you said)?

Odine said he doesnt know anything about the influence of TC but then after that he told Squall,You will keep moving toward TC to the future.After you are out of TC that will be Ultimecia's WorldSo Odine only make an assumption about how TC works.(Assumption is the thing can be right and wrong)

Qurange

06-27-2006, 09:51 AM

Viator

06-27-2006, 09:55 AM

Right, only Squall and company made it through Time Compression. That's why we saw a bunch of other people, including the Queen of Cards, Chocoboy, and the CC Club in Time Compression.

I know you've said before 'that's irrelevant because it doesn't fit with my theory', but it is a valid point against your assumption.

I already said that Queen of Cards, Chocoboy, and the CC Club had nothing to do with storyline at that time.Square makes them so we can finish Card Quest,that's all.

Qurange

06-27-2006, 10:20 AM

But, they're still there--if you're going to make a theory on the game, I think it's best to try to do it from within the game, taking into account the elements present--whether they were 'gameplay' elements or not.

Viator

06-27-2006, 10:24 AM

I already said to you many times that you have to seperate truth and lie.And I already explain why they exist at that time.

I already said that Queen of Cards, Chocoboy, and the CC Club had nothing to do with storyline at that time.Square makes them so we can finish Card Quest,that's all.

Qurange

06-27-2006, 10:31 AM

Yes, but saying 'they exist for out of storyline reasons' isn't good enough; it's sloppy.

G SpOtZ

06-27-2006, 10:33 AM

It would have been just as good to keep them out of Disc 4 when TC takes place anyway... They're not gonna put the characters in there if it disrupts the storyline, because you could just as easily finish the card sidequests in disc 3.

Viator

06-27-2006, 10:40 AM

G SpOtZ

06-27-2006, 10:47 AM

Yes, but saying 'they exist for out of storyline reasons' isn't good enough; it's sloppy.

No matter how you look at it,that's only the explanation.
Alright let's say they exist at that time.
If they exist at that time why they dont help Squall and Co instead just playing card like maniac.So it shows us their existance at that time made by Square so we can finish Card Quest.
You haven't responded to my post about that, btw.

Anywho, they wouldn't help Squall and Co because they don't know anything about that, and they're only card players, not fighters. Squall and Co are SeeDs and fighters, they know how to handle their own journey. Why can't cardplayers just play cards in Time Compression? Nobody's bothering them or trying to take their cards!

OMG. Maybe cards are the answers to surviving Time Compression! I'VE FIGURED IT OUT!

Viator

06-27-2006, 10:50 AM

They study at Balamb Garden,so they are fighters.

OMG. Maybe cards are the answers to surviving Time Compression! I'VE FIGURED IT OUT!

That's very funny.But not the answer.

G SpOtZ

06-27-2006, 10:53 AM

They study at Balamb Garden,so they are fighters.

OMG. Maybe cards are the answers to surviving Time Compression! I'VE FIGURED IT OUT!

That's very funny.But not the answer.
Why can't it be the answer?

And besides... the Queen of Cards wasn't a fighter.

Viator

06-27-2006, 10:57 AM

We were talking about CC Group,they are fighters.

Why can't it be the answer?

Because that is wrong answer.
I think the right answer is

Maybe there's connection with PUPu.
Remember PuPu gives us something(PuPu card)
PuPu card can be refined into Aegis Amulet.
Aegis Amulet can be used as Eva-J or Speed Up
Maybe because of Aegist Amulet Squall and Co can survive at TC
Maybe this is the answer,maybe not,who knows...

because they kept focused on one another, and where they needed to be.

G SpOtZ

06-27-2006, 10:59 AM

I think PuPu is a slave of Ulti... because when you see PuPu's UFO carrying the little statue thing across the screen, I'm pretty sure you see that somewhere in Ulti's castle, you should go look for it.

Viator

06-27-2006, 11:04 AM

Good thinking,but I think you are wrong.
I think Chrismas will answer this.

G SpOtZ

06-27-2006, 11:06 AM

I like how you're so cluelessly optimistic.

PuPu's UFO can also be seeing carrying a strange symbol across the screen. I think you can find that on Ulti's final form. You should look for that too. Seriously, go look for it.

Sir Bahamut

06-27-2006, 11:07 AM

Viator

06-27-2006, 11:10 AM

Actually, it is even more parsimonous to merely assume that Ellone is correct when she says "You can't change the past". This would solve the 'problem' of powers building up instantly, as well as provide a very elegant explanation to the time travelling phenomena in the game.

I already solved that powers thing.

Edeas initial powers = A
Adels powers = B and then after that Rinoa recieved Adels powers.
Rinoas powers = B
Ultimecias powers = (C) ; Her power is He life

Edeas powers after Ultimecia possess her = A + (C) = A(C).
Ultimecias and Edeas powersdo not added up because you can see there's "( )" ;boundary between their powers.So Ultimecia only use her own powers / (C)

I already PROVE that Rinoa only has Adels powers NOT Edeas.If you cant accept this truth you cant/wont find the answer.

So it doesnt matter you look at it as static or dynamic time.

I hope someone ask questions.

Zeromus_X

06-27-2006, 11:27 AM

Care to explain how you get these letters, and how in hell you're making a formula? Nobody's taking you seriously yet.

Viator

06-27-2006, 11:31 AM

It's only the matter of time and it also about someone's perspective to look at My explanations

Lychon

06-27-2006, 07:33 PM

Parsimonious solution to all this nonsense about power build up: ULTI DID NOT GIVE ALL HER POWER TO EDEA. Thank you. That is all.

Actually, it is even more parsimonous to merely assume that Ellone is correct when she says "You can't change the past". This would solve the 'problem' of powers building up instantly, as well as provide a very elegant explanation to the time travelling phenomena in the game.

If you are to utilize advanced vocabulary, please refrain from word misinterpretation. Arguably, the use of "parsimonious" here is incorrect. Parsimonious usually applies to frugality, especially in context of fiscal subjects. Why would you use unwonted vocabulary when arguing with someone like Viator who has proven to have a language capability not surpassing the vernacular? It only goes to confuse others and show your own vainglory.

In this case, "Insufficient" is perhaps a more proper and better choice for the word "parsimonious."

Thank you for considering this post.

-LYCHON :D

Serapy

06-27-2006, 08:22 PM

There is no such as Time Decompression in the game, they never mention that.

Squall and his party defeated Ultemica during TC, so when Ultemica is defeated... the TC didn't end, it was still processing for a short period. Because TC can't be ended in 1 sec, that sounds.. impossbile anyway. Meanwhile, Ultemica had to give her powers onto someone else (you know who). Rinoa woke Squall up and bingo, few minutes later.... the TC ended (like i said... TC alives for a short period). If Rinoa didn't wake Squall, you will know what will happen to Squall (bye bye to Squall in TC)

You tell me how Rinoa got to Squall's stone land? Squall and Rinoa have to connect together using by their strong emotions to meet each other but somehow Rinoa got to Squall's land? It should explain some things... rinoa got some nice powers

Of course Ellone can't change the past UNLESS she know you.

Ryushikaze

06-27-2006, 09:18 PM

Sir Bahamut

06-27-2006, 10:38 PM

There is no such as Time Decompression in the game, they never mention that.

It's not mentioned, but it is logically necessary to make the game consistent. If time did not decompress after Ultimecia's death, time in FF8 would constantly remain in a state of near compression, which is obviously not true, since the Garden Party can be seen to be quite normal. Hence time must have decompressed back to it's normal state.

Of course Ellone can't change the past UNLESS she know you.

This doesn't make sense. Ellone knew all the people she sends to the past when trying to get Laguna to go back to Raine, yet she discovered that nothing she did could change the past. I don't understand what you're trying to say here at all...

If you aren't accepting the static timeline, then the simplest assumption Ulti simply spread her power out, instead of assuming it all builds up, then creating explanations to wave away the buildup.

I agree completely. These are basically the only two reasonable explanations of the apparent build-up in powers.

Lychon

06-28-2006, 02:06 AM

In this case, "Insufficient" is perhaps a more proper and better choice for the word "parsimonious."

No, because I'm using parsimony in the scientific sense. To quote the American Heritage dictionary, "Adoption of the simplest assumption in the formulation of a theory or in the interpretation of data, especially in accordance with the rule of Ockham's razor". If you aren't accepting the static timeline, then ithe simplest assumption Ulti simply spread her power out, instead of assuming it all builds up, then creating explanations to wave away the buildup.

And though you probably are correct about big words being too much for Viator here, I did not use it merely to show off.

Perhaps. The main confusion arises from the unwonted, secondary use of the word. You applied the word parsimonious in the phrase “parsimonious solution,” which primarily denotes a solution that is frugal, penurious, or tenuous, which makes little sense in the context of your argument.

The all-new 4th edition of the American Heritage Dictionary defines parsimony primarily as follows: “unusual or excessive frugality; stinginess.” The definition I just provided is exactly what a good, practical definition should be: concise and informative. As I stated previously, the definition of parsimonious suggests that it be applied in the context of fiscal matters and although it is very possible to get away with using the word as you did, “insufficient” is probably a much better choice. Just saying, you know?

And let's not forget the famous words of W.K. Clifford: "It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for any one to believe anything up on insufficient evidence...."

Since in FFVIII there is insufficient evidence to support any of the absolute statements that Sir Bahamut, you, and Viator are making, all of your arguments are practically worthless. That is why I originally set out to prove only the plausibility and possibility of the R=U theory, not actual belief in this theory or the truth of this theory. :D

-LYCHON:D :D :D

daggertrepe

06-28-2006, 03:59 AM

Uh-oh. Not more rants...:(

G SpOtZ

06-28-2006, 04:01 AM

Yuna_wannabe

06-28-2006, 04:39 AM

Hey dude not trying to be a dick or anything but......Who's going to read all that?

...yea

Ryushikaze

06-28-2006, 05:05 AM

So, basically Lychon, you're trying to deny the equally valid, and arguably more used definition of parsimony in a game of one up manship and nitpicking. The definition quoted was ALSO from the fourth edition.

Parsimony is parsimony. If something is most parsimonious- in the sense of the second definition- it is the most frugal in regards to additional terms. As a solution between the two extremes, my proposed sequence was extremely parsimonious considering given evidence.

Insufficient is not synonymous with the scientific usage of parsimony, and it is not an acceptable substitute.

Christmas

06-28-2006, 07:57 AM

Looks to me that we are trying to make something out of nothing,

Viator

06-28-2006, 08:55 AM

STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE!

There is no such as Time Decompression in the game, they never mention that.

Even the game never said Time Decompression,TD happens after Ultimecia defeated.

Squall and his party defeated Ultemica during TC, so when Ultemica is defeated... the TC didn't end, it was still processing for a short period. Because TC can't be ended in 1 sec, that sounds.. impossbile anyway. Meanwhile, Ultemica had to give her powers onto someone else (you know who). Rinoa woke Squall up and bingo, few minutes later.... the TC ended (like i said... TC alives for a short period). If Rinoa didn't wake Squall, you will know what will happen to Squall (bye bye to Squall in TC)

TC ended after Ultimecia defeated,after She defeated what happen next is Time Decompression NOT TC.When Ultimecia give Her power to Edea that is the process of Time Decompression NOT TC,got that?
I think TD ended after Rinoa wake up Squall.

You tell me how Rinoa got to Squall's stone land?

You should ask Rinoa.

If you aren't accepting the static timeline, then the simplest assumption Ulti simply spread her power out, instead of assuming it all builds up, then creating explanations to wave away the buildup.

I agree completely. These are basically the only two reasonable explanations of the apparent build-up in powers.

I already explain this 'build-up powers' things.

Edeas initial powers = A
Adels powers = B and then after that Rinoa recieved Adels powers.
Rinoas powers = B
Ultimecias powers = (C) ; Her power is He life

Edeas powers after Ultimecia possess her = A + (C) = A(C).
Ultimecias and Edeas powersdo not added up because you can see there's "( )" ;boundary between their powers.So Ultimecia only use her own powers / (C)

I already PROVE that Rinoa only has Adels powers NOT Edeas.If you cant accept this truth you cant/wont find the answer.

So it doesnt matter you look at it as static or dynamic time.

I want to tell you that my explanation on second mistake has connection with fifth explanation on fifth mistake so just read them both at the same time.

Alright if you dont want to read all my explanation because it's too long just read this explanation.

Why Squall and Co can go through TC to the future inside Lunatic Pandora and why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic Pandora?

The answer is because Ultimecia cast TC and because of Ellones power.
No 2 is the most important part because that is the event Squall and Co go to the future.
Then why ONLY in Lunatic Pandora;Squall and Co can go through TC and go to the future?
It's because the 'effect' of Ellone sends Rinoa back to the present IN Lunatic Pandora will make only Squall and Co can go through TC when they inside Lunatic Pandora,while everyone else CANT.Because Lunatic Pandora is the place Ellone use her power and her power affected with TC then make ONLY Squall and Co can go to the future(The source of Ellones power at that time is inside Lunatic Pandora)That's why ONLY Lunatic Pandora is the ONLY way Squall and Co can go inside TC.That's why we can see the effect of TC.
You see when Rinoa is back to present in Lunatic Pandora Squall and Co get to Time Compression.
Why Laguna and Ellone dont get to TC too?
It is because they already out from that room
(The room when we fight Adel)
So that room is the connection to get inside TC.
Because Laguna and Ellone already out of that room they dont get inside TC,that's why ONLY Squall and Co alone can get inside TC and nobody else.
Now I realized there’s somethig more about TC.Actually there’s 2 phases of TC.
The first phase is when Squall and Co go through TC and end up in Ultimecia’s Castle in future.At this phase 1 we see the effect of TC,but after Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle in future we don’t see any effect of TC again,why?It because The phase 2 is not happen yet.What I mean is this phase 2 needs TIME to happens,that’s why we don’t see any effect of TC when Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle.Ultimecia uses this phase 1 to get back to the future to possess Her own body(If you read Rev of the Truth thread,you must know what I am talking about).
So TIME between after the Phase 1 and before the Phase 2 is the time Squall and Co kill all Ultimecia’s servant.When Squall encounter Ultimecia,She said the world was
on the brink of that ever-elusive 'time compression'.That means the phase 2 is almost begin.The phase 2 begin when we fight Ultimecia at that Final Battle. That’s why we see the effect of TC.

Now I already fully explain why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic and in the Final Battle.I realized this when I remember Squall said I don't know what's going on. But since we're still here, I think we still have “some time” to finish our job.
So the right diagram is

7--------------------8-----------------------9-------10----------11
|**********************************|\*** ***********/
|**********************************|*\** **********/
|**********************************|**\* *********/
|6*********************************|***\ 13******/ 14
|\*********************************|**** \******/
|*\********************************|**** *\****/
|**\*******************************|**** **\**/
|***\2*****************************|**** ***\/
|****\*****************************|**** ** /
|*****\****************************|**** / 15
|******\ **************************|***/
5*******>1------------12-----------------| /
|******/
|*****/
|****/ 3
|***/
|**/
|*/
|/
4

* = NOTHING (I just put them to make the diagram perfect).
So actually there’s NO “*” in that diagram)
1 = Rinoa (PRESENT)
2 = The way Squall and Co go through TC
3 = The way Rinoa back to the present
4 = Young Adel (past)
5 = The way Ultimecia back to the future
6 = The commencement Room
7 = Ultimecia’s Castle (Future)
8 = Time Compression
9 = Time Decompression
10 = The way Squall go to the past (Ending Event)
11 = The Ending Event (You know what I am talking about)
12 = The way Quistis,Selphie,Irvine,Zell back to present from Time Decompression
13 = The way Rinoa end up in garden BUT still in Time Decompression
14 = Squall all alone in Time Decompression World
15 = Rinoa found Squall and after that back to the present

7 - 8 = Time after Phase 1 and before Phase 2
2,4,5,6,7 = Phase 1
8-9 = Phase 2

When Squall and Co through TC they have to arrived in Commencement Room first before they can go to Ultimecias Time and Place,why is that?

Commencement Room or you can call it Genesis Room or Genesis Space(This is only what I call it).
Squall is not only arrive at Commencement Room/Genesis Space but also in Genesis Time(This is only what I call it so don’t need to argue about this Genesis Time)
This Time (Genesis Time) and Space (Commencement Room) is the first place Squall and Co arrive in TC before Squall and Co can go to Ultimecia’s Time and Space (Center of Time Compression).
The meaning of TC is absorbing Time and Space NOT compressing Time and Space.
So when this TC/Absorption starts it always absorbs the nearest Time and Space.
Squall and Co is not in the nearest Time and Space (Center of Time Compression) when they get inside TC, they are far from nearest Time and Space (Center of Time Compression) so they need to get through this Genesis Time and Genesis Space (outside part of nearest Time and Space) first before they can enter Ultimecia’s Time and Space or you can call it the center of Time Compression.

The hardest question about Time Compression is :
Why Ultimecia needs to go to the past to perform Time Compression?
Actually this is not a question, this question was only tricked us. We were tricked by this question for a long time and we were confused by this question, why? because this is not the right question.
The right question is : HOW Ultimecia performs Time Compression?
The answer is :
Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression.

We were always tricked by the fact Ultimecia go to the past, that’s why we always think she needs to go to the past to perform Time Compression.
Ultimecia doesn’t need to go to the past to perform Time Compression She ONLY needs Ellone’s Power to perform Time Compression.
Ellone’s Power can send someone's consciousness to the past.
So Ultimecia go to the past is INEVITABLE if She wants to perform Time Compression because that is how Ellone's Power works(send someone's consciousness to the past).
Ultimecia uses Ellone’s Power when she go to the past and cast Time Compression Magic to make Time Compression happens.

Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression.

The Truth is The Process of Time Compression is The achievement of Time Compression.

hb2

06-28-2006, 10:19 AM

I never thought about it as this complicated. I just thought that the TC spell needed ellone's power just to be used, like MP in other final fantasys, and that ulti will compress time with the compression point at herself, then absorbing it. you will say it cant be because time is infinite, but what if it can be, i mean, ulti would really be someone who would want infinite power,

time=infinite
time compression, it will keep happenening cause it's infinite
absorbing, she'll become like, ultimate, because she will keep absorbing the power of time.

Viator

06-28-2006, 10:25 AM

I never thought about it as this complicated. I just thought that the TC spell needed ellone's power just to be used, like MP in other final fantasys, and that ulti will compress time with the compression point at herself, then absorbing it. you will say it cant be because time is infinite, but what if it can be, i mean, ulti would really be someone who would want infinite power,

Now I want to ask you,how can you compress something infinite?
Of course that is imposible BUT you CAN absorb something infinite.

time=infinite
time compression, it will keep happenening cause it's infinite
absorbing, she'll become like, ultimate, because she will keep absorbing the power of time.

The Process of Time Compression IS The Achievement of Time Compression,why? Because Time is Infinite.

hb2

06-28-2006, 10:15 PM

basicly that's my point. Time compression will keep happening when the spell is cast. because time is infinite.
i see the compression as put into one point. and that point is ulti, that's how she probably absorbs it then, by compressing time to herself

i don't think it's necasary to take this too far. it can be seen very simple with as a last resort "it's a fantasy game"
i respect your research though but i hope you're not someone who will become a "so how can i junction a gf in real life" person, if you know what i mean ;)

Viator

06-29-2006, 12:10 PM

Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression

I will try to describe this explanation.

Ultimecia's TC Magic = Car and Ellone's Power = Fuel

Car + Fuel = Car moves.

So they need each other to make it(TC) happens.
Now I realized there’s somethig more about TC.Actually there’s 2 phases of TC.
The first phase is when Squall and Co go through TC and end up in Ultimecia’s Castle in future.At this phase 1 we see the effect of TC,but after Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle in future we don’t see any effect of TC again,why?It because The phase 2 is not happen yet.What I mean is this phase 2 needs TIME to happens,that’s why we don’t see any effect of TC when Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle.Ultimecia uses this phase 1 to get back to the future to possess Her own body(If you read Rev of the Truth thread,you must know what I am talking about).
So TIME between after the Phase 1 and before the Phase 2 is the time Squall and Co kill all Ultimecia’s servant.When Squall encounter Ultimecia,She said the world was
on the brink of that ever-elusive 'time compression'.That means the phase 2 is almost begin.The phase 2 begin when we fight Ultimecia at that Final Battle. That’s why we see the effect of TC.

Now I already fully explain why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic and in the Final Battle.I realized this when I remember Squall said I don't know what's going on. But since we're still here, I think we still have “some time” to finish our job.

So the right diagram is

7--------------------8-----------------------9-------10----------11
|**********************************|\*** ***********/
|**********************************|*\** **********/
|**********************************|**\* *********/
|6*********************************|***\ 13******/ 14
|\*********************************|**** \******/
|*\********************************|**** *\****/
|**\*******************************|**** **\**/
|***\2*****************************|**** ***\/
|****\*****************************|**** ** /
|*****\****************************|**** / 15
|******\ **************************|***/
5*******>1------------12-----------------| /
|******/
|*****/
|****/ 3
|***/
|**/
|*/
|/
4

* = NOTHING (I just put them to make the diagram perfect).
So actually there’s NO “*” in that diagram)
1 = Rinoa (PRESENT)
2 = The way Squall and Co go through TC
3 = The way Rinoa back to the present
4 = Young Adel (past)
5 = The way Ultimecia back to the future
6 = The commencement Room
7 = Ultimecia’s Castle (Future)
8 = Time Compression
9 = Time Decompression
10 = The way Squall go to the past (Ending Event)
11 = The Ending Event (You know what I am talking about)
12 = The way Quistis,Selphie,Irvine,Zell back to present from Time Decompression
13 = The way Rinoa end up in garden BUT still in Time Decompression
14 = Squall all alone in Time Decompression World
15 = Rinoa found Squall and after that back to the present

7 - 8 = Time after Phase 1 and before Phase 2
2,4,5,6,7 = Phase 1
8-9 = Phase 2

Time between 7 and 8 not affected by TC because Phase 1 is over and phase 2 is not happen yet.

Explain why Squall and Co were not affected by TC(ie. why weren't their own individual lines of time also compressed?)

Maybe there's connection with PUPu.
Remember PuPu gives us something(PuPu card)
PuPu card can be refined into Aegis Amulet.
Aegis Amulet can be used as Eva-J or Speed Up
Maybe because of Aegist Amulet Squall and Co can survive at TC
Maybe this is the answer,maybe not,who knows...

I think I already have better explanation than that.
Emotions,ect affected with Squall and Co when they in 'The Process of Entering TC' but when they arrived inside TC emotions,etc do not affected again because 'Inside TC',emotions,etc had nothing to do with'The Process of TC'.
But after TC was over the next thing happens is Time Decompression.Time Decompression affected with emotion,ect.why?Because TD is the contrary of 'The Process of Entering TC'.
So emotions,ect only affected in 'The Process of Entering TC and 'The Process of out TC / Time Decompression

So they can survive inside TC because they are not part of Time and Space.Actually Time Compression ONLY absorb Time and Space.
Actually Human is NOT part of Time and Space.
They just exist in Time and Space.
So when Time Compression starts it only absorb Time and Space not human,Squall and Co is an EXCEPTION.
I already explain why they can get inside TC.

No 2 is the most important part because that is the event Squall and Co go to the future.
Then why ONLY in Lunatic Pandora;Squall and Co can go through TC and go to the future?
It's because the 'effect' of Ellone sends Rinoa back to the present IN Lunatic Pandora will make only Squall and Co can go through TC when they inside Lunatic Pandora,while everyone else CANT.Because Lunatic Pandora is the place Ellone use her power and her power affected with TC then make ONLY Squall and Co can go to the future(The source of Ellones power at that time is inside Lunatic Pandora)That's why ONLY Lunatic Pandora is the ONLY way Squall and Co can go inside TC.That's why we can see the effect of TC.
You see when Rinoa is back to present in Lunatic Pandora Squall and Co get to Time Compression.
Why Laguna and Ellone dont get to TC too?
It is because they already out from that room
(The room when we fight Adel)
So that room is the connection to get inside TC.
Because Laguna and Ellone already out of that room they dont get inside TC,that's why ONLY Squall and Co alone can get inside TC and nobody else.

Ryushikaze

06-29-2006, 07:13 PM

Viator, the LP is totally uninvolved. The card quest folks, also not in the room, also manage to travel through time compression.

Viator

07-01-2006, 01:31 PM

Now I realized there’s somethig more about TC.Actually there’s 2 phases of TC.
The first phase is when Squall and Co go through TC and end up in Ultimecia’s Castle in future.At this phase 1 we see the effect of TC,but after Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle in future we don’t see any effect of TC again,why?It because The phase 2 is not happen yet.What I mean is this phase 2 needs TIME to happens,that’s why we don’t see any effect of TC when Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle.Ultimecia uses this phase 1 to get back to the future to possess Her own body(If you read Rev of the Truth thread,you must know what I am talking about).
So TIME between after the Phase 1 and before the Phase 2 is the time Squall and Co kill all Ultimecia’s servant.When Squall encounter Ultimecia,She said the world was
on the brink of that ever-elusive 'time compression'.That means the phase 2 is almost begin.The phase 2 begin when we fight Ultimecia at that Final Battle. That’s why we see the effect of TC.

Now I already fully explain why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic and in the Final Battle.I realized this when I remember Squall said I don't know what's going on. But since we're still here, I think we still have “some time” to finish our job.

Now I want to talk about how Rinoa can find Squall in that place.(you know what I mean)?Rinoa can find Squall because Rinoa still in Time Decompression.When we see Rinoa running around in the garden and searching for Squall,actually she is still in Time Decompression,why?The answer is very simple.If you remember about TC event in Lunatic Pandora there’s conversation between Rinoa and Squall.

Quistis: Where are we supposed to go!?

Squall: To Edea's house!

Rinoa: I'll... Probably disappear...

Squall: Quistis: Where are we supposed to go!?

Squall: To Edea's house!

Rinoa: I'll... Probably disappear...

Squall: Just stay by my side. I won't let you disappear!!!

Rinoa said she will disappear,why? Because The Party wants to go to Edea’s House,but Rinoa doesn’t have good memory about that Edea’s House because she just go to that place once.She afraid she will disappear if she cant imagine that place but then after that Squall said just stay by my side. I won't let you disappear!!!
So Rinoa can make it together with everybody else to that place because she was with Squall.But after Squall and Co defeated Ultimecia,Rinoa doesn’t have Squall in her side, she just end up with Quistis,Selphie,Irvine and Zell.But even without Squall Rinoa still trying to imagine that garden in the orphanage but Rinoa cant make it back to that garden without Squall,so Rinoa just end up in the garden in Time Decompression World.So rinoa keep searching for Squall and finally she can find Squall because Squall in Time Decompresiion World too.When Rinoa found Squall at that place Rinoa thought Squall is death,she start thinking about The Promise they made at “that garden”,So when Rinoa hold Squall they finally can go back to “that garden” at the orphanage in the present.Because like I said Time Decompression affected with emotion,ect.So Rinoa can go back to that garden at the present because she was with Squall this time and Her emotion about The Promise at “that garden” make her back to that garden with Squall to the present time.
I hope you can imagine that.

So the right diagram is

7--------------------8-----------------------9-------10----------11
|**********************************|\**************/
|**********************************|*\************/
|**********************************|**\**********/
|6*********************************|***\ 13******/ 14
|\*********************************|****\******/
|*\********************************|*****\****/
|**\*******************************|******\**/
|***\2*****************************|*******\/
|****\*****************************|****** /
|*****\****************************|**** / 15
|******\ **************************|***/
5*******>1------------12-----------------| /
|******/
|*****/
|****/ 3
|***/
|**/
|*/
|/
4

* = NOTHING (I just put them to make the diagram perfect).
So actually there’s NO “*” in that diagram)
1 = Rinoa (PRESENT)
2 = The way Squall and Co go through TC
3 = The way Rinoa back to the present
4 = Young Adel (past)
5 = The way Ultimecia back to the future
6 = The commencement Room
7 = Ultimecia’s Castle (Future)
8 = Time Compression
9 = Time Decompression
10 = The way Squall go to the past (Ending Event)
11 = The Ending Event (You know what I am talking about)
12 = The way Quistis,Selphie,Irvine,Zell back to present from Time Decompression
13 = The way Rinoa end up in garden BUT still in Time Decompression
14 = Squall all alone in Time Decompression World
15 = Rinoa found Squall and after that back to the present

7 - 8 = Time after Phase 1 and before Phase 2
2,4,5,6,7 = Phase 1
8-9 = Phase 2

Time between 7 and 8 not affected by TC because Phase 1 is over and phase 2 is not happen yet.

There’s mystery in that (My) explanation,if you can solved that mystery you will find The Truth,I mean Absolute Truth. I knew this Truth.
Dont tell to anybody about this Truth.
If you can find that Truth please PM Me immediately because I need you…

Levian

07-02-2006, 12:36 AM

You're really making a mountain out of molehill here. This game ain't really that deep. Go write some Science Fiction novels or smething.

Christmas

07-02-2006, 03:55 AM

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-02-2006, 04:46 AM

You're really making a mountain out of molehill here. This game ain't really that deep. Go write some Science Fiction novels or smething.
x2

G SpOtZ

07-02-2006, 05:28 AM

There’s mystery in that (My) explanation,if you can solved that mystery you will find The Truth,I mean Absolute Truth. I knew this Truth.
Dont tell to anybody about this Truth.
If you can find that Truth please PM Me immediately because I need you…

Seems like there are a lot of TRUTH, but I choose to believe mine.
I didn't know we were playing Nancy Drew's Mysteries!

I feel the presence of Future Esthar.

Is your truth that Winhill will be called Samhill in the future? =P Ahh, good times.

Viator

07-02-2006, 09:28 AM

Serapy

07-03-2006, 01:40 AM

Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression

I thought ultimecia casted time compression without ellone, because ellone wasn't even there at the end.

I remember, during the game. Squall talked to Ellone, Squall asked Ellone if she can bring Squall back to the past but Ellone said she can't because she doesn't know him. I dunno why though. So I assumed if she doesn't know any person then she can't send them back to the past or ellone lied.

Qurange

07-03-2006, 03:17 AM

Actually, Ellone was necessary to send Ultimecia back to a past Sorceress, in order for her to be able to cast Time Compression. So, she didn't need Ellone's power exactly, but Ellone's power was the only way for her to be in control of the three sets of powers in three different times at once.

Lychon

07-03-2006, 04:20 AM

And let's not forget the famous words of W.K. Clifford: "It is wrong, always, everywhere, and for any one to believe anything up on insufficient evidence...."

Since in FFVIII there is insufficient evidence to support any of the absolute statements that Sir Bahamut, you, and Viator are making, all of your arguments are practically worthless. That is why I originally set out to prove only the plausibility and possibility of the R=U theory, not actual belief in this theory or the truth of this theory. :D

-LYCHON:D :D :D
Yet, you PHAIL'D! =D

Actually, I succeeded in proving the possibility and plausibility of the R=U theory. This is also why the FFVIII FAQ in this forum was altered. It no longer reads "not possible" in regards to the R=U theory. Therefore, you are grossly incorrect. I succeeded, but nice try. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

So, basically Lychon, you're trying to deny the equally valid, and arguably more used definition of parsimony in a game of one up manship and nitpicking. The definition quoted was ALSO from the fourth edition.

Parsimony is parsimony. If something is most parsimonious- in the sense of the second definition- it is the most frugal in regards to additional terms. As a solution between the two extremes, my proposed sequence was extremely parsimonious considering given evidence.

Insufficient is not synonymous with the scientific usage of parsimony, and it is not an acceptable substitute.

Incorrect, "Ryu-shi-ka-ze". The word "insufficient" is not only an adequate synonym, but it also completes the meaning and intention of the phrase to a much greater degree than "parsimonious." If you think I'm playing a game of "nitpicking," then you are sorely mistaken. You are also mistaken in your statement regarding the primary use of the word "parsimonious." The primary definition and the primary use of this word denote excessive frugality, as opposed to the rather obscure, secondary definition that is used in a scientific context. Try again. :D

-LYCHON

Ryushikaze

07-03-2006, 12:49 PM

Rocket Edge

07-03-2006, 01:37 PM

Lychon

07-04-2006, 04:45 AM

Obscure? Hardly. As for 'primary usage', the usage of the 'first' definition is falling into desuitude- sorry, disuse, since you have trouble with big words- and the 'secondary' scientific definition is used quite often in, wouldn't ya know it, scientific contexts, or in other words, quite often.

Seriously, Lychon, you have no point to make. The definition I used was correct, ESPECIALLY since we are dealing with theories, the situation in which it is meant to be invoked.

Next, no, insufficient does not fit the meaning of the existing sentence at all, seeing as it means the inability to suffice, and my original phrase was about a an explanation that was sufficient without needless additional terms.

Lastly, yes, you are being a nitpicker.

Once again, you cannot be more wrong, my good sir. Your usage of the word was both unwarranted and unwelcome in the context of use. Now, if you have had a difficult time mastering “big” or “difficult” words and wish to pin your insecurities on me, then that is entirely your own prerogative. But spare me your ranting in regards to the application of the word “parsimonious.” Its secondary meaning is only rarely used, and it was completely inappropriate for the situation at hand. As I stated before, “insufficient” would have been a much better, much more sophisticated alternative to the grandiloquent and downright turgid ‘parsimonious.’

The point I have to make is that your semantics are faulty to the core, and I have demonstrated this point quite proficiently. Not only that, but your insecurity about your own linguistic capabilities has come gushing out of you as if I had inflicted you with some mortal wound. I meant you no such harm, and I beg your forgiveness for my transgressions. Nevertheless, your initial inaccuracy and blatant defense of your word-choice is a problem you may wish to address.

Finally, “insufficient” is actually the best possible word to be used in place of the abstruse “parsimonious.” It competes the meaning of the phrase to a greater degree and better conveys the concept that the theory in question is inadequate in supporting or proving a certain point.

I await your response, but it seems you have now become what you have been accusing me of being: a nitpicker. You have had a history of name-calling on these forums when you begin to fail in an argument, so hopefully you will be able to control yourself this time. :tongue:

-LYCHON

P.S. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Ryushikaze

07-04-2006, 08:11 AM

Viator

07-04-2006, 08:24 AM

I remember, during the game. Squall talked to Ellone, Squall asked Ellone if she can bring Squall back to the past but Ellone said she can't because she doesn't know him. I dunno why though. So I assumed if she doesn't know any person then she can't send them back to the past or ellone lied.

You misunderstand,Squall ask Ellone to bring him back to Rinoa's past,but Ellone said she cant because she doesnt know her (Rinoa).

Actually, Ellone was necessary to send Ultimecia back to a past Sorceress, in order for her to be able to cast Time Compression. So, she didn't need Ellone's power exactly, but Ellone's power was the only way for her to be in control of the three sets of powers in three different times at once.

Ellone's power is the formula to make TC happens.

I've changed My post no 1.
I think talking about the mistake of that FAQ only make things complicated.So I've changed My post no 1,just read it again to make things clear this time.

Lychon

07-05-2006, 05:53 AM

Actually, I have a history of name calling- and not much of one at that- when my opponent refuses to debate properly, regurgitates the same argument or claim at me again and again, refuses to offer proof, or make appeals as to my motives. But no, I feel no need to insult you Lychon. I feel pity. That this is even important enough to pursue, this far, to the point of telling me I am wrong about a definition I have already quoted for you, and attempting to put all sorts of spin on the matter just to try and claim a victory, it's just plain sad. I'm going to begin ignoring anything in this vein- as I should have awhile ago, it is terribly off topic and I think it's scaring off other people- from now on, but I will say this. You are wrong. Insufficient is insufficient in context.

Well, I’m glad that you admit to having a serious psychological problem which manifests itself in the form of verbal abuse (step one is realizing the problem). Now, let’s move on to the pith of your argument, if we can even call it an “argument” at all. You have accused me of being a nitpicker when in fact I have made a quite valid, quite legitimate point in regards to your linguistics. Your most recent post paints a portrait of a most desperate and illogical person, one who strives to secure victory in the face of futility while delving into the nether realms of hypocrisy. To disprove your entire stance, let us first take a gander at the definition of both “parsimonious” and “parsimony,” provided to us by the good people over at Merriam-Webster.

par•si•mo•ni•ous: exhibiting or marked by parsimony; especially : frugal to the point of stinginess

par•si•mo•ny: 1 A : the quality of being careful with money or resources : thrift B : the quality or state of being stingy
2 : economy in the use of means to an end; especially : economy of explanation in conformity with Occam's razor

I trust you were able to understand the above definitions. As you may already be aware, “parsimonious” is the adjective that derives from the noun “parsimony.” As I have already stated in my previous posts, “parsimonious,” and even the noun it derives from, apply primarily to fiscal or economical matters, and are used overwhelmingly to denote economic simplicity or economic frugality. In an attempt to mask your blunder, you attempted to portray the use of “parsimonious” as deriving from an alternate definition, one that is predominantly reserved for scientific inquiries into subjects such as cladistics or penology. Given the nature of your original argument, it is evident that you fail to demonstrate any kind of substantial scientific disquisition. On the contrary, you are merely remarking on the qualities of a certain theory, and in essence stating that it is insufficient in proving or securing consideration for its ultimate proposal. Hence, although your use of the word “parsimonious” can be understood to some degree, in the context of the referred application it is quite obscure and unwonted.

Now, if you wish to continue your denial of plain evidence, I will be more than happy to sustain this discussion with you. Per your recent post, however, I fear that you will abandon our quaint little tête-à-tête, so I say in a perhaps premature conclusion that you are most definitively in error here, good sir. You cannot be more wrong: insufficient is a better and wholly sufficient substitute for the rather obscure “parsimonious.”

In regards to your condescending “pity,” I assure you that it is entirely misplaced. If you believe that the expression of sarcastic commiseration provides an adequate defense mechanism against insurmountable attacks of logic and rationale, then by all means, use it. Unfortunately, it only serves to make your own arguments and ideas seem all the more incredible.

Insufficient means 'not sufficient'. This meaning is directly opposite the scientific definition of parsimony- which, despite your unsupported claims to the contrary is an equally valid and contextually appropriate way to use the word- and my intended meaning of the phrase- that the explanation I gave was a workable explanation without any needless fluff, or in other words, it sufficed. Now, you may disagree with my explanation being sufficient, but that is a whole other kettle of fish.

Insufficient is by no means “directly opposite” the scientific definition of parsimony- in fact, it can be quite similar, particularly in the case to which we are referring. Even though I have already established the improper use of the obscure, scientific definition of “parsimonious,” I will indulge you in an elucidation of why insufficient and “parsimonious” are not opposites. When a certain parsimony is considered as a possible solution to a given complication, it is meant (by definition) to be the simplest explanation amongst other possible explanations. However, for any benefit to be derived from said parsimony, the concepts of pragmatism and practicality must inevitably be consulted, especially if the subject matter is scientific in nature. Scientific and philosophical studies over the centuries are testimony that the first or simplest solution to a problem is not sufficient to explain natural phenomena (e.g. Earth being flat, Sun revolving around the Earth, etc…). Hence, the parsimony turns out to be INSUFFICIENT. Therefore, choosing the word “parsimonious” in your original post was not only a blunder when considering the person you were communicating with, but it was also too obscure and unspecific in your contextual application. Next time, instead of being so preoccupied with defending false logic, try doing a little thinking with the old noggin, eh? If I were you, I would edit your original post and replace “parsimonious” with “insufficient.”

You are also wrong about the scientific definition being rarely used. Do a google search on parsimony. You'll find the vast majority of entries that aren't simply dictionary sites are using it in the scientific/ Ockham's Razor sense, not the frugal.

Now then, back to the conspiracy theories.

If you candidly believe that you can use the popularity of sites such as Google or Wikipedia to back up false generalizations, then my good sir, you are in for disastrous disappointment. Not only have I cited the definition of “parsimonious” and “parsimony” by Merriam-Webster up above, but I have also proved your original and improper utilization of these words. You are plainly wrong to state that the primary definition of “parsimonious” is of a scientific nature. Every dictionary I have ever owned or have ever browsed defines “parsimonious” first and foremost in the context of economic frugality, and only thereafter mentions Occam’s Razor. In fact, if you reread the Merriam-Webster definition up above, you’ll see that even the secondary definition, which mentions Occam’s Razor, is in the context of economic simplicity. So please, spare me your dances around the rosebush and start using proper English. If you do not have this ability, then I recommend you take some time out of your day to visit a library.

I look forward to your response.

-LYCHON

P.S. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

G SpOtZ

07-05-2006, 08:44 AM

Children, children... cat fights outside please.

Okay, do any of you honestly listen to yourselves? (Or, look at yourselves?) Type? You're using mothersmurfing formulas and figures and conspiracy theories to prove how a fictional plot element in a video game works physically. Do you not find that strange in the least? At any rate, from what I understand in the game, TC is just all of Time Compressed into one instant. (It's what Odine said.)

Exactly. Time Compression is when past, present, and future is mixed together, nuff said.
I think we've just figured out the mystery of Time Compression. Let's have a tea party!

Viator

07-05-2006, 09:57 AM

Zeromus_X

07-05-2006, 10:24 AM

G SpOtZ

07-05-2006, 10:29 AM

Well let's see. We know that the world of FF8 has laws different than our world. That also probably means, different math, sciences, and other things. Therefore, any math and science from our world may most definitely be invalid in the FF8 world. Therefore, Time Compression is compressed time, with no thorough explanation in the game.
I think of Time Compression as just a strong magic, a strong form of sorcery... because, well, that's what it is. Ulti is a sorceress, using sorcery to compress time. If you want to figure out Time Compression so bad, can you figure out the rest of the magic spells in the game?

Fantaseh.

Viator

07-05-2006, 10:35 AM

What truth? You've pulled all of these formulas and theories out, and expected us to just believe you like you're the all-knowing expert on Time Compression. All I'm doing is taking what was said in the game, which already makes sense and doesn't need to be discussed any further. I'll honestly never understand what is up with you theory people. >_>

I am talking about "The Process of Time Compression" not only TC.
I never expected you to believe Me,I expected you to ask question regarding to My explanation but so far nobody really ask that question that's why this thread become boring.ASK QUESTION PLEASE!

Well let's see. We know that the world of FF8 has laws different than our world.

Who knows,maybe yes maybe no.

Time Compression is compressed time
No,TC is absorbing Time and Space.
How can you absorb something infinite;Time IS infinite.

In the game many character said TC is compressing Time(past,present and future)
How can they know TC is compressing time if TC not happens yet;they never know anything about TC at that time,so they just make a speculation about TC.(compressing Time;past,present and future mixed together)

Ryushikaze

07-05-2006, 12:20 PM

I think we've just figured out the mystery of Time Compression. Let's have a tea party!

Not really...

I dont tell all the explanation about TC.
That's why I say that you have to solve that mystery.
If you can solved that mystery you can find that missing explanation.(Truth)

So, in short, you have no evidence, you can't prove your claim, and expect us to do your work for us. Not how it works.

Now then, how about that Tea Party?

Levian

07-05-2006, 01:51 PM

I'll bring a cake

hb2

07-05-2006, 09:14 PM

People, let's chill ok, he makes some points which are to be taken in consideration. This topic could also be seen as a clear-up for people who played the game but still think it's vague in that aspect.
We have concluded (we did right?) Time Compression is actually Time absorbing (with lack of a better name).
The process however is still clouded into mysteries. The proces of time compression. Because time is infinite, the proces would keep happening.
It's is said in the game that only Ultimecia would be able to live in a Time Compressed world. But Squall and co. can go to her time and fight her. This proves that the time is not compressed as that it's gathered in one point. It's more of a symbolic way which (by scanning the final form of U) By the process of absorbing the powers of time and space into one being

The last sentance is the most important in this post. (and the explanation is in the rest of the text)

Time compression = The process of the powers and space being absorded by a single entity which would become all powerfull.

This is not speculation. It's pure logic, if anything isn't, please reply with what and i (or viator or someone else) will try to explain it.

-Hb2

Shin Gouken

07-05-2006, 09:33 PM

This stuff confuses me and im so not the person to attempt to theorize on it but this is how i see it....

22535

In my little home-made diagram (which i'm very proud of :)) i tried showing how time can be compressed to achieve time travel. Squall and co are represented by the red dot, the red square represents squalls time and the blue square represents ultimecia's time. When the two points are compressed to each other, squall can simple step forward into Ultimecia's time and the when time is uncompressed he remains there. So time compression has been used to enable squall to arrive in ultimecia's time...

To achieve ultimate time compression, i can only imagine that ultimecia chooses two points in time to compress and everything before and after is wiped. I don't know how she would do this and i don't have evidence (im not saying this actually happens before you start ripping it out of me) just a possible idea

Sir Bahamut

07-05-2006, 10:13 PM

In an attempt to bring some logic back into here:

The assumption that time is infinite is purely baseless (whoever disagrees can by all means try and explain Viator's argument here); in fact, we should rather assume the opposite, because if time were infinite, TC would never be possible. Why? Because TC works at a finite speed, and would thus never be able to finish compressing everything. Thus the whole "TC is really time absorbing" argument goes out the window, which is good, because it didn't make any sense to begin with. TC compresses time, but Ultimecia also happens to transform into her "True Ultimecia" form which allows her to also absorb everything being compressed (as well as space), hence the scan info.

Now, the reason Squall and Co can fight Ultimecia is because time is not yet fully compressed. If it were, they would be unable to exist (only Ultimecia can exist in TC). They are however able to avoid being absorbed by Ultimecia by using sheer willpower and having belief in eachother, like Laguna says in the Ragnarok on beforehand ("It's all about friendship, love and courage etc.").

Now, fully compressed time would be like splitting up the line of time into a finite/infinite (we don't know if time is infinitely divisible in FF8 or not) amount of singular 'events', and then merging all those 'events' into one single event. That'd be TC. However, the actual process of getting there, as well as the oddities regarding it's effects (eg. why we see the effects in the Lunatic Pandora and nowhere before that, when the spell was cast before the game starts) seem to be impossible to explain satisfactorily.

For more on time and TC in FF8, refer to the "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ" found here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197343.html

which Viator tries to negate in the beginning of this topic. Unfortunately, he doesn't make enough sense to require any arguments.

Viator

07-06-2006, 10:41 AM

The assumption that time is infinite is purely baseless (whoever disagrees can by all means try and explain Viator's argument here); in fact, we should rather assume the opposite, because if time were infinite, TC would never be possible. Why? Because TC works at a finite speed, and would thus never be able to finish compressing everything. Thus the whole "TC is really time absorbing" argument goes out the window, which is good, because it didn't make any sense to begin with. TC compresses time, but Ultimecia also happens to transform into her "True Ultimecia" form which allows her to also absorb everything being compressed (as well as space), hence the scan info.

I think saying time is infinite is logic and make sense.
Why dont you explain it yourself Bahamut.
TC still possible even time is infinite.(The Process of TC is The achievement of TC).TC works at finite speed to absorb Time,so this "finite speed" will go on forever and never stop because time is infinite.Now I want to ask you how can you absorb something infinite?

Now, the reason Squall and Co can fight Ultimecia is because time is not yet fully compressed. If it were, they would be unable to exist (only Ultimecia can exist in TC). The reason why Squall and Co can fight Ultimecia inTC because TC only absorb time and space NOT human.I already explain how Squall and Co can get inside TC.

[QUOTE]Why Squall and Co can go through TC to the future inside Lunatic Pandora and why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic Pandora?
The answer is because Ultimecia cast TC and because of Ellones power.
No 2 is the most important part because that is the event Squall and Co go to the future.
Then why ONLY in Lunatic Pandora;Squall and Co can go through TC and go to the future?
It's because the 'effect' of Ellone sends Rinoa back to the present IN Lunatic Pandora will make only Squall and Co can go through TC when they inside Lunatic Pandora,while everyone else CANT.Because Lunatic Pandora is the place Ellone use her power and her power affected with TC then make ONLY Squall and Co can go to the future(The source of Ellones power at that time is inside Lunatic Pandora)That's why ONLY Lunatic Pandora is the ONLY way Squall and Co can go inside TC.That's why we can see the effect of TC.
You see when Rinoa is back to present in Lunatic Pandora Squall and Co get to Time Compression.
Why Laguna and Ellone dont get to TC too?
It is because they already out from that room
(The room when we fight Adel)
So that room is the connection to get inside TC.
Because Laguna and Ellone already out of that room they dont get inside TC,that's why ONLY Squall and Co alone can get inside TC and nobody else

Rinoa said only Ultimecia can exist in TC because only Ultimecia inside TC and nobody else.But than there's something going on,because Squall and Co can get inside TC that means whorvre can get inside TC can exist.

They are however able to avoid being absorbed by Ultimecia by using sheer willpower and having belief in eachother, like Laguna says in the Ragnarok on beforehand ("It's all about friendship, love and courage etc.").

This friendship,etc only neccesary when they get inside TC and out of
TC.They dont get absorbed inside TC because

So they can survive inside TC because they are not part of Time and Space.Actually Time Compression ONLY absorb Time and Space.
Actually Human is NOT part of Time and Space.
They just exist in Time and Space.
So when Time Compression starts it only absorb Time and Space not human,Squall and Co is an EXCEPTION(I already explain why Squall and Co can exist in TC).

Now, fully compressed time would be like splitting up the line of time into a finite/infinite (we don't know if time is infinitely divisible in FF8 or not) amount of singular 'events', and then merging all those 'events' into one single event. That'd be TC.

Fully compressed time is not logic because Time is infinite.

However, the actual process of getting there, as well as the oddities regarding it's effects (eg. why we see the effects in the Lunatic Pandora and nowhere before that, when the spell was cast before the game starts) seem to be impossible to explain satisfactorily.

I already explain it very well why we see the effects in the Lunatic Pandora and nowhere before that, when the spell was cast before the game starts)

Why Squall and Co can go through TC to the future inside Lunatic Pandora and why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic Pandora?
The answer is because Ultimecia cast TC and because of Ellones power.
No 2 is the most important part because that is the event Squall and Co go to the future.
Then why ONLY in Lunatic Pandora;Squall and Co can go through TC and go to the future?
It's because the 'effect' of Ellone sends Rinoa back to the present IN Lunatic Pandora will make only Squall and Co can go through TC when they inside Lunatic Pandora,while everyone else CANT.Because Lunatic Pandora is the place Ellone use her power and her power affected with TC then make ONLY Squall and Co can go to the future(The source of Ellones power at that time is inside Lunatic Pandora)That's why ONLY Lunatic Pandora is the ONLY way Squall and Co can go inside TC.That's why we can see the effect of TC.
You see when Rinoa is back to present in Lunatic Pandora Squall and Co get to Time Compression.
Why Laguna and Ellone dont get to TC too?
It is because they already out from that room
(The room when we fight Adel)
So that room is the connection to get inside TC.
Because Laguna and Ellone already out of that room they dont get inside TC,that's why ONLY Squall and Co alone can get inside TC and nobody else

For more on time and TC in FF8, refer to the "Time/Ultimecia Plot FAQ" found here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/game/197343.html

which Viator tries to negate in the beginning of this topic. Unfortunately, he doesn't make enough sense to require any arguments.

Come on Bahamut,you admit it yourself that your FAQ has one big mistake.I already pointed out your mistakes(well it only the matter of perspective).You tried to explain about TC in simple way but your explanation always end up with question which can destroy you explanation.I already ash you the question regarding your explanation about TC but you dont answer it,why because you can find the answer and because you cant find the answer that means your explanation is wrong

Sir Bahamut

07-06-2006, 10:57 AM

Definitely, the explanation of TC in the FAQ isn't perfect, like you say, but that's because the game isn't perfect. Your theories here however are wildly baseless and irrational.

Human beings aren't part of time and space, they only exist in it, hence they aren't compressed? Ellone powers somehow influence TC to make the effects only visible in the Lunatic Pandora? It is possible to absorb something infinite but not compress something infinite?

Sorry, but it's only painfully obvious that your explanations are quite illogical.

Viator

07-06-2006, 11:03 AM

Definitely, the explanation of TC in the FAQ isn't perfect, like you say, but that's because the game isn't perfect. Your theories here however are wildly baseless and irrational.

Actually the game can perfect if you have HIGH IMAGINATION.
My theory can explain what happens in The process of TC,you just dont want to admit it.

Human beings aren't part of time and space, they only exist in it, hence they aren't compressed? Ellone powers somehow influence TC to make the effects only visible in the Lunatic Pandora? It is possible to absorb something infinite but not compress something infinite?

Exactly

Sorry, but it's only painfully obvious that your explanations are quite illogical.

My explanation is logic,it only the matter how you look at that explanation.

Christmas

07-06-2006, 11:28 AM

Actually the game can perfect if you have HIGH IMAGINATION.

Indeed, you really need a lot of imagination to twist come out with stuff like this and actually understand it.

And ya, it is good that you base all this on your IMAGINATION.

My theory can explain what happens in The process of TC,you just dont want to admit it.

Mine can too, you just don't want to admit it too.

Viator

07-06-2006, 11:36 AM

Indeed, you really need a lot of imagination to twist come out with stuff like this and actually understand it.

And ya, it is good that you base all this on your IMAGINATION.

I think every single theory or work all come up with imagination.
(If you know what I am talking about).

Mine can too, you just don't want to admit it too.

Show it to Me.

hb2

07-06-2006, 11:40 AM

When i read/post in this thread i always have in mind that TC can be viewed form 2 points

And both points can't be proven

1)time is finite
2)time is infinite

Sir Bahamut, Squall of SeeD and TheOnionKnight did a great job on the FAQ, but you guys must admit, it's mostly based on the Assumption that time is finite (from what i've read). Viator on the other hand tries to explain and discuss it from the viewpoint that time is Infinite. (at least, i think so, if i'm wrong i'd better leave this topic :eep: )

Definitely, the explanation of TC in the FAQ isn't perfect, like you say, but that's because the game isn't perfect. Your theories here however are wildly baseless and irrational.
They are based mostly on the assumption that time is infinite, just as your faq is based on the assumption that time is finite.
So far i found it very enlighting reading this thread and also your faq, since they explain point of the time compression both in different ways, but they also both work in theory. (for as far as the game goes, i mean, not like in reallife)

Viator

07-06-2006, 11:46 AM

Actually their explanation always come up with question that will always destroy their explanation.

hb2

07-06-2006, 11:54 AM

can you prove that? sorry but that is a statement you post because you are somehow mad at those authors because they dont support your theory. at that's what i think.

Discussing this subject remains fun though :P

Viator

07-06-2006, 11:56 AM

Actually I already ask that question in post no 1 but I delete it because it only make things look complicated.Bahamut dont even tries to answer that questions he just ignore it.

hb2

07-06-2006, 11:59 AM

You havent answered my question, to prove that "Actually their explanation always come up with question that will always destroy their explanation."

i understand you can become frustated because of people arguing so much, but this is probably one of the things that makes Sir B. ignore you.

Viator

07-06-2006, 12:08 PM

So here is the mistakes:
Red is Me
-----------------------------------
SORCERESS POWERS + THE TIMELOOP
-----------------------------------

Scanning Ultimecia in the final battle reveals that she intends to become
all-powerful by taking all the sorceress powers through time. This directly
implies a basic fact about sorceress powers, namely that they are additive.
Sorceress power A + Sorceress Power B = Sorceress Power AB, which is a
greater power than A or B by themselves. The reason this is relevant to the
discussion, is that the main part of the loop involves a power transfer. To
visualise this, we will make a simple diagram tracing who gets what powers
in the game. If you wonder who the "unknown sorceress" is, you must remember
that Edea is a sorceress before Ultimecia gives her her powers, but since we
are never told anything about this sorceress, we label her thus.

|----------------------------------|
| |
Unknown sorceress--->Edea--->Rinoa--->Unknown Era--->Ultimecia

---
NOTE: As you can see, I have not included Adel giving powers to Rinoa here.
The reason is that Adels powers are not an essential part of the loop,
meaning it would merely complicate the diagram.
---

As you can see, since sorceress powers are additive, it would seem that the
powers of each sorceress from Edea to Ultimecia increases for each span of
the loop! The dynamic time theory allows this to happen, but the static time
theory does not. Does this mean that the static time theory is ultimately
wrong? The answer is no. This is no more a flaw than the term "SeeD" having
no meaningful origin. To see this, we'll look closer into the powers being
transferred.

Edeas initial powers = A
Adels powers = B
Ultimecias powers(which include A and B) = C

But since we see that Edea gets Ultimecias powers, we could say that

A = A + C.

Such a 'formula' for Edeas powers works in the dynamic time theory,
because that would simply express the fact that Edeas powers increase for
each loop. It would of course for this reason be more accurate to write that:

A-->A + C-->(A + C) + C--> etc.

In other words that A BECOMES A + C, not that it IS A + C. But what about
the static time theory? Powers are forbidden from adding up within the loop
because that would mean that you can change the past. How do we then account
for this seeming paradox? Well, remember the analogy of rewinding the video
I used earlier? It applies here too: the events in which the powers transfer
happens once, and only once. This means that thinking of the loop as
transpiring more than once is as silly as thinking of the events in a video
as happening more than once depending on how many times you look at it!
We fall into this paradox because we are literally letting our eyes trace
around the loop more than once, which creates the illusion that powers must
increase each time we come full circle, but as explained above, this is quite
flawed and incorrect. The fact is that within the static time theory, any
event happens once and only once, which means the power transfers happen
once, and only once, meaning asking if the powers 'add up' for each loop is
a meaningless question.

That Explanation is wrong and I will make it right.
Edeas initial powers = A
Adels powers = B and then after that Rinoa recieved Adels powers.
Rinoas powers = B
Ultimecias powers = (C) ; Her power is He life

Edeas powers after Ultimecia possess her = A + (C) = A(C).
Ultimecias and Edeas powersdo not added up because you can see there's "( )" ;boundary between their powers.So Ultimecia only use her own powers / (C)

So it doesnt matter if you look at it as static or dynamic time.

I already PROVE that Rinoa only has Adels powers NOT Edeas.If you cant accept this truth you wont find the answer.You will only stuck in your wrong perspective.(just read Rev of the Truth thread)

Second mistake :
If you view the ULOT from the outside, and picture it as being a film
consisting of slides, you'd find one slide which we could apptly label the
'TC-slide'. This slide would, if TC were fully completed, contain the entire
ULOT. But it is not that the TC event creates a seperate ULOT; it doesn't
form duplicates of all the events on the ULOT. To understand what Onion has
proposed, think of one of those odd 'picture in a picture' pictures. For
example, imagine you have a picture of a man watching television, from such
an angle that you can see what he is watching. Then imagine that the image
you see on the television screen is the exact same picture as the 'original'
picture. In theory, this picture would extend for ever inside the picture,
because each 'layer' would have another television in it. Onions idea is that
TC acts in the same way; the TC event would be like the television of the
above example. But remember, as I said before, TC creates no duplicates!
Instead, the ULOT we see inside the TC event IS the ULOT which the TC event
is situated on. What this means, is that once the TC event contains more and
more events, those same events on the ULOT will essentially be compressed.
In a fully compressed time, the TC event would thus be seen to contain the
entire ULOT, so the entire ULOT would be compressed. The idea is then that
Ultimecia could shape the events within the TC event as she finds suiting,
and in doing so shapes the ULOT which the TC event is on. To make a diagram
of the TC event on the ULOT:

<---------------A--TC-B-----C

A is the event in which Squall defeats Adel.
TC is, you guessed it, the TC event.
B is Squalls return from the future.
C is the Garden party in the ending.

This astounding idea seems overly complicated at first, and it took me(Sir
Bahamut) quite a while to fully appreciate it, but it works incredibly well.
TC would merely be another fated event on the ULOT, just as set in stone as
the rest. Furthermore, the events contained in the TC event would be a
'fated' set of events, which would not actually be ALL of the events. This
rids us of the problem of TC lasting for a finite amount of time while
keeping up with the basic ideas of TC. But it was realised that there was one
problem in any view of TC which caused all sorts of debates. The problem is
this:

We have already established that TC is cast in the past, and that it works
at a finite speed. But why do we only see the effects of TC after Adels
defeat? To make an image which should make the question clear:

Why Squall and Co can go through TC to the future inside Lunatic Pandora and why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic Pandora?
The answer is because Ultimecia cast TC and because of Ellones power.
No 2 is the most important part because that is the event Squall and Co go to the future.
Then why ONLY in Lunatic Pandora;Squall and Co can go through TC and go to the future?
It's because the 'effect' of Ellone sends Rinoa back to the present IN Lunatic Pandora will make only Squall and Co can go through TC when they inside Lunatic Pandora,while everyone else CANT.Because Lunatic Pandora is the place Ellone use her power and her power affected with TC then make ONLY Squall and Co can go to the future(The source of Ellones power at that time is inside Lunatic Pandora)That's why ONLY Lunatic Pandora is the ONLY way Squall and Co can go inside TC.That's why we can see the effect of TC.
You see when Rinoa is back to present in Lunatic Pandora Squall and Co get to Time Compression.
Why Laguna and Ellone dont get to TC too?
It is because they already out from that room
(The room when we fight Adel)
So that room is the connection to get inside TC.
Because Laguna and Ellone already out of that room they dont get inside TC,that's why ONLY Squall and Co alone can get inside TC and nobody else

Past<---------------A----------------B----------------->Future

A is the event in which Ultimecia casts the spell.
B is the event in which Adel is defeated.

Now, TC would by all logic have to affect the events inbetween A and B
before affecting B, since it works at a finite speed, and is cast in a point
before B. This is all nice until we realise with startling realisation that
the events between A and B include, among other things, the events we play
in the game! We see that TC is cast long before event B, yet for some
mysterious reason we see no effects anywhere before event B, when common
sense would dictate that the events inbetween should experience the same
kind of "Hippie weirdness"(a joke term by Onion which caught on) that we see
after Adel is defeated(ie. the room melting away, big bubbles of memories
floating around, falling up into the sea etc.). But for some odd reason, we
don't! Why not?

Several attempts were made to explain this, ranging from the idea that
Ultimecia casts TC in more than one point in time to new elaborate theories
on TC, but no good explanation could be found. As it turned out, the answer
eluded explanation because of the image of the ULOT. We had already realised
that the ULOT was an incomplete picture, but despite knowing this, we were
all too set in the old ways. The answer, which now seems ridiculously
obvious, did however come to me in the end, but only after a long day of
completely re-evaluating the static time theory...

Actually We cant see the effect of TC,the reason why we can see the effect of TC after Adels defeat because of Ellone's power.
just read the explanation no 5
Third mistake :

Firstly, there is the fact that Squall and Co never actually seem to try and
affect Laguna and Co in any way. Surely, as Ultimecia has shown us, such
manipulation of people using Ellones magic is very possible, but while
Ultimecia uses this left and right, Squall and Co never do anything other
than seemingly give them added power in battle(remember the 'fairies' Laguna
and Co speak of, and how they imply battles are a walk in the park when
they're around).

That explaination is wrong Ultimecia never do such manipulation thing because Her life is Her power.Just read Rev of the Truth thread

forth mistake :

Squall then makes another attempt at getting back, but yet again fails, and
gets stuck in some sort of timewarp; a mixture of various times, ssemingly
reacting to his own thought, emotions and memories. As said above, he ends
up alone in a barren wasteland because he is still stuck in his 'lone wolf'
attitude. As he tries to simply walk his way out of this place, he realises
eventually that he's not getting anywhere, and that he's stuck. Affected by
these thoughts, the time warp now alters, and when Squall turns around, he
finds that he is literally stuck on a tiny island in the middle of nowhere.
Collapsing, he starts thinking about Rinoa, and yet again, the time-warp he's
in reacts to that, but since his emotions are full of despair and
hopelessness, what he sees is inevtiably tainted by just that. Because of
this, he sees his memories all twisted, and even sees things which haven't
happened(like Rinoas helmet shattering in space). Finally, he collapses from
the strain. There is some dispute whether or not Squall dies here or not, but
either way, what happens next is the same: Rinoa, through her love for
Squall, is able to make her way to him and save him(remember that emotions
were the key in this situation). As they embrace, they both break free from
the time warp, and can proceed to the Garden, where a big party awaits.

your explanation is nonsense and wrong.If Squall still dont leave his aloof attitude how can he made it through TC to the future with everybody else.
The reason why he all alone is ... you dont need to know.

fifth mistake :
But what about the problem of the "hippie weirdness"? The solution lies in
the idea of the PLOTs having the same boundaries and existing side by side
as in the diagram above. If we consider Ultimecias PLOT and Squalls PLOT as
unfolding next to eachother, we realise what is clearly shown to us in the
game: the event on Ultimecias PLOT in which she casts TC is adjacent to the
event on Squalls PLOT in which he has just defeated Adel! To make a picture:

Ultimecias PLOT: Birth---------------A------------------>
Squalls PLOT: Birth---------------B------------------>

A is the event in which Ultimecia casts TC.
B is the event where Squall has just defeated Adel.

The event A, though far in the past as seen from Squalls PLOT, is adjacent to
the event B on the PLOT-sheet! Bringing in TheOnionKnight's theory on TC, we
have that the TC event is established on every PLOT-event adjacent to event
A. That's why we only see "hippie weirdness" after Adels defeat and nowhere
else. In the words of TheOnionKnight, "TC happens where it happens because
that's where it happens!"

You make Ultimecias PLOT adjacent with Squalls PLOT
to make conclusion why we see effect of TC after Adels defeat.Using 'adjacent' thing cant/wont explain that question.Then why you dont explain the effect of TC in Final Battle.So this explaination is wrong.

Why Squall and Co can go through TC to the future inside Lunatic Pandora and why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic Pandora.
The answer is because Ultimecia cast TC and because of Ellones power.
I will make a diagram to make you understand.

I will make a diagram to make you understand.

7--------------------8-----------------------9-------10----------11
|**********************************|\*** ***********/
|**********************************|*\** **********/
|**********************************|**\* *********/
|6*********************************|***\ 13******/ 14
|\*********************************|**** \******/
|*\********************************|**** *\****/
|**\*******************************|**** **\**/
|***\2*****************************|**** ***\/
|****\*****************************|**** ** / 15
|*****\****************************|**** /
|******\ **************************|***/
5*******>1------------12-----------------| /
|******/
|*****/
|****/ 3
|***/
|**/
|*/
|/
4
* = NOTHING (I just put them to make the diagram perfect).
So actually there’s NO “*” in that diagram)
1 = Rinoa (PRESENT)
2 = The way Squall and Co go through TC
3 = The way Rinoa back to the present
4 = Young Adel (past)
5 = The way Ultimecia back to the future
6 = The commencement Room
7 = Ultimecia’s Castle (Future)
8 = Time Compression
9 = Time Decompression
10 = The way Squall go to the past (Ending Event)
11 = The Ending Event (You know what I am talking about)
12 = The way Quistis,Selphie,Irvine,Zell back to present from Time Decompression
13 = The way Rinoa end up in garden BUT still in Time Decompression
14 = Squall all alone in Time Decompression World
15 = Rinoa found Squall and after that back to the present

7 - 8 = Time after Phase 1 and before Phase 2
2,4,5,6,7 = Phase 1
8-9 = Phase 2

Time between 7 and 8 not affected by TC because Phase 1 is over and phase 2 is not happen yet.

No 2 is the most important part because that is the event Squall and Co go to the future.
Then why ONLY in Lunatic Pandora;Squall and Co can go through TC and go to the future?
It's because the 'effect' of Ellone sends Rinoa back to the present IN Lunatic Pandora will make only Squall and Co can go through TC when they inside Lunatic Pandora,while everyone else CANT.Because Lunatic Pandora is the place Ellone use her power and her power affected with TC then make ONLY Squall and Co can go to the future(The source of Ellones power at that time is inside Lunatic Pandora)That's why ONLY Lunatic Pandora is the ONLY way Squall and Co can go inside TC.That's why we can see the effect of TC.

This (My) theory explains everyhing about what happened in Lunatic Pandora.I hope you peruse this theory until you understand.

Now I realized there’s somethig more about TC.Actually there’s 2 phases of TC.
The first phase is when Squall and Co go through TC and end up in Ultimecia’s Castle in future.At this phase 1 we see the effect of TC,but after Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle in future we don’t see any effect of TC again,why?It because The phase 2 is not happen yet.What I mean is this phase 2 needs TIME to happens,that’s why we don’t see any effect of TC when Squall and Co arrived at Ultimecia’s Castle.Ultimecia uses this phase 1 to get back to the future to possess Her own body(If you read Rev of the Truth thread,you must know what I am talking about).
So TIME between after the Phase 1 and before the Phase 2 is the time Squall and Co kill all Ultimecia’s servant.When Squall encounter Ultimecia,She said the world was
on the brink of that ever-elusive 'time compression'.That means the phase 2 is almost begin.The phase 2 begin when we fight Ultimecia at that Final Battle. That’s why we see the effect of TC.

Now I already fully explain why we see the effect of TC in Lunatic and in the Final Battle.I realized this when I remember Squall said I don't know what's going on. But since we're still here, I think we still have “some time” to finish our job.

The Process of Time Compression = The Achievement of TC. This is the Truth.

I want to add something about Lunatic Pandora.
You see when Rinoa is back to present in Lunatic Pandora Squall and Co get to Time Compression.
Why Laguna and Ellone dont get to TC too?
It is because they already out from that room
(The room when we fight Adel)
So that room is the connection to get inside TC.
Because Laguna and Ellone already out of that room they dont get inside TC,that's why ONLY Squall and Co alone can get inside TC and nobody else.

There's the mistakes I find so far
You see that is very long.I dont want to read it again this time.I will add another question next time.
If you dont understand just ask that one by one

i understand you can become frustated because of people arguing so much, but this is probably one of the things that makes Sir B. ignore you.

He ignore Me because he cant answer My questions.

Sir Bahamut

07-06-2006, 01:09 PM

Sir Bahamut, Squall of SeeD and TheOnionKnight did a great job on the FAQ, but you guys must admit, it's mostly based on the Assumption that time is finite (from what i've read). Viator on the other hand tries to explain and discuss it from the viewpoint that time is Infinite. (at least, i think so, if i'm wrong i'd better leave this topic )

That's all well and good, except his theories rely on the baseless assumption that time compression is actually time absorbtion. Not only is this not suggested by the game, he hasn't actually made any arguments as to why it should be possible to absorb an infinite timeline but not compress it.

The rest of his theories are all based on bad foundations. He assumes Ellones powers have an influence on TC, ignoring the fact that the Ragnarok make it to the future even though they were never in the Lunatic Pandora. He assumes TC is made up of two phases, even though this is not either suggested by the game.

He's correct that our explanation of TC still has one central flaw, which we obviously acknowledge, but Viator's apparent 'solution' requires a load of baseless assumptions and strange logic which just aren't plausible. Just read the edited first post of this thread, and this quickly becomes apparent (just look at that diagram for crying out loud!). The sad truth is that Square didn't give us enough information to satisfactorily explain TC completely.

He ignore Me because he cant answer My questions.

Nah, it's got more to do with you making statements such as "The reason why he all alone is ... you dont need to know." etc as well as being generally making arguments which generally don't require any sort of rebuttal in order to make the flaws apparent.

07-06-2006, 03:02 PM

I think the real question here is why did Squall and Rinoa name their child Wallace Barret? HMM? HMM?

Christmas

07-06-2006, 03:07 PM

Squall is impotent, he must have kidnapped that brat from somewhere. :(

Sir Bahamut

07-06-2006, 03:32 PM

IT'S THE TRUUUUTH! :eek:

Ryushikaze

07-06-2006, 07:10 PM

Y'know, Viator, it really irks me that you keep claiming that you've proven that Rinoa only has Ulti's power when you have done no such thing.

Levian

07-07-2006, 03:20 AM

Laguna = Pandemona.

Christmas

07-07-2006, 04:18 AM

Laguna = Pandemona.

YES, LEVIAN GOT THAT ONE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

You see, actually Squall and CO are actually all GF without them knowing it!!

Here is a list of GF:

Squall - Greiver (Lion only like their own kind and eat others,)
Rinoa - Siren (She talks too much and refuse to listen that is why she sliences others.)
Irvine - Cactuar (It do look like a spikey penis and we know what Irvine is good at)
Selphie - Doomtrain (She likes TRAINS and WARS OF DOOM dun she?)
Quistis -Leviathan (That snake GF looks exactly like her WHIP, now you know why she prefer a whip)
Zell - Ifrit (Ugly and hot tempered )
Laguna - Pandemonia (Everyone know Laguna and Fuijin had some underground affair and this why you can draw it from Fuijin.)

But why is that so they doesn't know it? And they can summon themselves into Battle? All this have to do with Time Compression of course and PUPU but it will only be reveal next time.

hb2

07-07-2006, 10:04 AM

Come on guys, now it isn't funny anymore. I haven't been on this particulair forum for long but i'm pretty sure that they don't tolerate flaming and useless posts.

gigames08

07-07-2006, 10:22 AM

Errr.... what the HELL is going on? GFs? So... what about Kiros and Ward? And Seifer? And... Edea? You get to fight as them too!

Viator

07-07-2006, 10:31 AM

The rest of his theories are all based on bad foundations. He assumes Ellones powers have an influence on TC, ignoring the fact that the Ragnarok make it to the future even though they were never in the Lunatic Pandora. He assumes TC is made up of two phases, even though this is not either suggested by the game.

Ragnarok exist at that time is not fact but pure game play aspect.
If CC group really exist at that time why they dont help Squall and Co fight Ultimecia instead just playing card.So they exist at that time is pure game play aspect;so we can finish card quest.
With that two phases It can explain why we see the effect of TC after Adel's defeat and in final battle while your theory is nonsense talking about adjacent thing but cant explain the effect of TC in that final battle.

Nah, it's got more to do with you making statements such as "The reason why he all alone is ... you dont need to know." etc as well as being generally making arguments which generally don't require any sort of rebuttal in order to make the flaws apparent.

Still you dont answer any question from Me and you still keep your poor excuses to ignore My question.Maybe because you are just a ... well you know what I mean,right?

Now I will tell My argument about "Time"

Time is one of the world's deepest mystery.No one can say exactly what it is. time has primarily been perceived as a virtual entity.Yet, the ability to measure time makes our way of life possible.Most human activities involve groups of people acting together in the same place at the same time.People could not do this if they did not measure time in the same way.

One way of thinking about time is a world without time.This timeless world would be at a standstill.But if some kind of change took place, that timeless world would be different "now" than it was "before".The period-no matter how brief-between "before" and "now" indicates that time must have passed.Thus,time and change are related because the passing of time depends on changes taking place.In real world,changes NEVER STOP HAPPENING,that means TIME IS INFINITE.Some changes seem to happen only once,like the falling of a particular leaf.Other changes happen over and over again,like the breaking of waves against the shore.

Any change that takes place again and again stands out from other changes.The rising and setting of the sun examples of such change.The first people to keep time probably counted such natural repeating events and used them to keep track of events that did not repeat.

Now I will use formula to determine Time compression and Time Decompression.

Space = Time : Energy

Space = Total space caused by Time Decompression.
I think it infinite because time never stop.

Time = Time after Ultimecia defeated;after Time Decompression began
We will never know how much time it takes.
But I believe it infinite.

Time = Space : Energy(gravity)

Energy = Energy that produced after Ultimecia defeated;Time Decompression Energy.

I will use Gravitation's Formula to get Energy's formula.

Gravity = Energy : Space

With this we can get Energy's Formula.

Energy = gravitation : Space(cm3)

Gravitation is UNKNOWN because we cant predict the gravity in Time Decompression Condition.

In Time Decompression quant space the energy in cm3 declines but the total quant energy is maintained constants.
That means energy always constants.

When space grows time also expands and energy decreases inversely in cm3 proportion, hence the energy per cubic cm decreases but total quantum energy is preserved (constants).

I can only show the formula but I cant carculate it because we will never know the physics law in Time Decompression Condition.Even though these formulas is absolute in any universe (I think).

According to wave theory, time, space, and energy, are the three media that are woven together, (quant, wave formation). Wave theory shows how each has its own properties and behaviors, but one can not exist without the others, more over, each proposes explanation for the others, time alone do not exist, time shows some energetic activity in some space.

This theory shows us that time,space and energy are one entity.

In Newton's absolute universe, time — as well as energetic matter and space — have neither a beginning nor an end as a main dimension. On the other hand, Einstein's relative time does contain a beginning and end together with the appearance of a formation and disperse, again to the universe's, (to main dimensions) to form new energetic formations (relative time) . Absolute time cannot exist without relative time and vice versa. Newton's absolute time is allied to universal dimension and Einstein's time (relative time) is allied to energetic matter formations.

Summary:

Time, as space and energy is a dimension of the universe.

Without "Energetic Activity" and space time would not exist.

This "Energetic Activity" in FF8 is "Energy" caused by Time Decompression Energy.
Einstein’s theories of general and special relativity can be used to actually prove that time travel is possible.

The proposal of time travel is backed by scientific theory, but that is not enough to make it realistically possible. Numerous arguments are proposed that that prevent time travel into the past. Both common sense and scientific fact construct serious obstacles. A major argument against time travel into the past is called the autonomy principle, better know as the grandfather paradox. This paradox is created when a time traveler goes back in time to meet his or her grandfather. Now upon their introduction it would be possible to change the course of events that lead up to your grandfather and grandmother marrying. You could tell him something about a family secret to convince him you are who you say you are, and he may proceed to tell his soon to be wife. She may in turn doubt his sanity and have him committed. Thus your grandparents would never have your mother, and therefore you couldn’t be born! But then how could you have ever existed to travel back in time if you don’t exist? You would have had to have been created via autonomy. The next question would be, if your mother was never born, then when you return to the future would anything you did in your life exist? Or would you, your friends, your home etc. never have existed? This is clearly an inconsistency paradox that would rule out time travel, yet interestingly enough the laws of physics do not forbid such excursions. The multiverse concept eradicates the problem of the autonomy principal, because it allows time travel to the past, but to a different universe. You would meet the person who was your grandfather in your universe, but never married your grandmother in his universe. In the universe that you traveled to, you never existed.

Another argument of impossibility is called the chronology principal. This principal states that time travelers could bring information to the past that could be used to create new ideas and products. This would involve no creative energy on the part of the "inventor." Imagine that Pablo Ruiz y Picasso, the most influential and successful artist of the 20th century, were to travel back in time to meet his younger self. Assuming he stays in his correct universe, he could give his younger self his portfolio containing copies of his paintings, sculptures, graphic art, and ceramics. The young version of Picasso could then meticulously copy the reproductions, profoundly and irrevocably affecting the future of art. Thus, the reproductions exist because they are copied from the originals, and the originals exist because they are copied from the reproductions. No creative energy would have ever been expended to create the masterpieces! 3 This chronology principal rules out travel into the past.

This is just another problem about time Travel BUT in FF8,time travel will not change anything because what happened had happened and cant changed the past,present or future (this time travel only to completed the past NOT to changed the past).The effect of time travel in FF8 is nessecary to make FF8 universe like the way we see in the game happens!!!.

A notion that was once nothing more than science fiction, is now a concept that’s becoming reality. Einstein’s theories of general and special relativity can be used to actually prove that time travel is possible, and research has shown that fast moving craft can travel into the future. Time dilation is the easiest method because it merely requires high velocity motion to experience time travel.3 Phenomena known as wormholes and closed timelike curves are possible means of time travel into the future and the past.4 Traveling into the past is a task which is much more difficult however. Its theory involves complicated scenarios of tears in four dimensional space-time, energy equivalent to that of an exploding star, and traveling near the speed of light. Both common sense and scientific fact can be used to paint scenarios that become serious obstacles. Yet even these hindrances can be explained away! If the multiverse concept is reality, then most present ideas of time travel are based on a false reality. If time travel is completely impossible then the reason has yet to be discovered.

multiuniverse actually exist but human only MISUNDERSTAND with universe's theories,that's why they still cant find the answer.TIME TRAVEL IS POSSIBLE IN REALITY WITHOU CREATING NEW UNIVERSE (YOU CAN SEE IT IN FF8) IT ONLY HARD/ALMOST IMPOSIBLE TO EXPLAIN IT BY WORDS.

Time travel is possible in real life according to Einstein’s theories of general and special relativity.

But in FF8 time travel caused by magic that means Einstein's theories is NOT valid to explain time travel in FF8.
So we have to make new theory to explain this phenomena.(I will tell you this new theory in another episode,so stay tuned)

gigames08

07-07-2006, 10:35 AM

This is getting a little deep, isn't it?

Viator

07-07-2006, 10:38 AM

That formula needed to explain TC and TD

gigames08

07-07-2006, 10:44 AM

Oh. Right. But... it's still very... erm... detailed, isn't it? I just thought FFVIII was trying to create a message to the FF-buying (or at least aqcuiring) public that you should live for the moment.

Or was is that just me?

Viator

07-07-2006, 10:47 AM

Just read that explanation until you understand.

gigames08

07-07-2006, 10:53 AM

... Okay...

Ryushikaze

07-07-2006, 10:56 AM

CC is composed almost exclusively of non combatants.

Though it begs the question, Viat- what evidence do you have to prove that they're merely there for gameplay aspects and were not pulled forth through time by their connections to each other and Squall?

Viator

07-07-2006, 11:01 AM

If they can get there why Laguna and Ellone CANT?
This is enough proof to show they only game play aspect.

Ryushikaze

07-07-2006, 11:10 AM

No. It isn't. You're trying to say something that we see, in the course of the events of the game, and which is never contradicted, DID NOT HAPPEN.

Of course, I'm letting you off easy by making you uphold your burden only on one of your claims. If I forced you to provide ACTUAL EVIDENCE, not just "could be's" and ultra specific interpretations of horribly vague things, like the meaning of [!]F***ing[/!]*snip* paintings.

Do NOT go around the filters. ~ Leeza

Viator

07-07-2006, 11:17 AM

No. It isn't. You're trying to say something that we see, in the course of the events of the game, and which is never contradicted, DID NOT HAPPEN.

If you still cant accept My explanation about CC group that means even God cant change your mind.

You always dont like My explanation, why?

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-07-2006, 11:29 AM

Come on guys, now it isn't funny anymore. I haven't been on this particulair forum for long but i'm pretty sure that they don't tolerate flaming and useless posts.
If that were the case it probably would have been closed around the point that people started to argue over petty semantics.

Viator

07-07-2006, 11:33 AM

Y'know, Viator, it really irks me that you keep claiming that you've proven that Rinoa only has Ulti's power when you have done no such thing.

I think you have to play the game again to make you understand what I am talking about

Ryushikaze

07-07-2006, 11:39 AM

Doing it as we speak. You're still not convincing.

Viator

07-07-2006, 11:43 AM

Not convincing to you...?
Maybe you just misundersatnd with My explanation

Ryushikaze

07-07-2006, 11:52 AM

Or maybe, just maybe, your theory is entirely groundless.

Yeah. Definitely the 'no ground' one. Viator, I dislike your theory because it is Bunkum, just like Futue Esthar's before it, and R=U before that, and numerous others before those.

Viator

07-07-2006, 11:55 AM

I doesnt really care if you believe it or not.

You people critized other people's theory but in the end you cant make a better theory either.

Jimmy Dark Aeons Slayer

07-07-2006, 12:08 PM

Ultimecia is Quistis because they both have blonde hair, they both like to dominate others and they both fail at their job:

Ultimecia fails as an evil sorceress

Quistis fails as an instructor

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-07-2006, 12:09 PM

I doesnt really care if you believe it or not.

You people critized other people's theory but in the end you cant make a better theory either.
Considering that you haven't read theories by the vast majority of the people who have posted in this thread, how can you possibly make that assertion?

Viator

07-07-2006, 12:10 PM

Considering that you haven't read theories by the vast majority of the people who have posted in this thread, how can you possibly make that assertion?

I have read many theories and I just want to make better theory.

Ultimecia is Quistis because they both have blonde hair, they both like to dominate others and they both fail at their job:

Ultimecia fails as an evil sorceress

Quistis fails as an instructor

We are talking about TC and TD in this thread,so please stay on topic

Sir Bahamut

07-07-2006, 12:11 PM

With that two phases It can explain why we see the effect of TC after Adel's defeat and in final battle while your theory is nonsense talking about adjacent thing but cant explain the effect of TC in that final battle.

You seem to be mixing things up. The theory of TC proposed in the FAQ DOES explain this, which you perhaps would have noticed had you read a bit more carefully. The thing we have been unable to explain satisfactorily is why the TC starts where it does (ie. why it doesn't start in the past where Ultimecia casts it). Although assumptions can be made to explain even this, we were attempting to explain it without assumptions such as TC being split into 2 phases. Unfortunately, we have accepted that Square don't give us enough information to do so, but as we avoid baseless assumptions as much as we can, we just decided to leave TC not entirely explained.

As for whose theory is nonsense, upon reviewing your last post along with your previous diagram, I rest my case.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-07-2006, 12:15 PM

I have read many theories and I just want to make better theory.

That doesn't asnwer my question at all. That comment was clearly aimed at the people who have posted in this thread, not at the authors of any other theories.

Viator

07-07-2006, 12:21 PM

You seem to be mixing things up. The theory of TC proposed in the FAQ DOES explain this,

But that explanation is WRONG!

The thing we have been unable to explain satisfactorily is why the TC starts where it does (ie. why it doesn't start in the past where Ultimecia casts it).

Like I said because TC need time to works.That's why there's phases in process of TC.

we just decided to leave TC not entirely explained.

You cant explain it because you dont understand TC.
I recommend you to play the 4th disk once again to make sure that My explanation is right

That doesn't asnwer my question at all. That comment was clearly aimed at the people who have posted in this thread, not at the authors of any other theories.

whatever then

Sir Bahamut

07-07-2006, 12:29 PM

There's a difference between saying TC works at a finite speed and that it is split into different phases. One doesn't follow from the other.

And no, of course I don't fully understand TC. Who does?

Viator

07-07-2006, 12:32 PM

There's a difference between saying TC works at a finite speed and that it is split into different phases. One doesn't follow from the other.

This finite speed still constant even the phase is change.
This finite speed wont change even the changes of phase.

And no, of course I don't fully understand TC. Who does?

That means you have to rest now.

Sir Bahamut

07-07-2006, 12:35 PM

But I just got out of bed a few hours ago :(

Viator

07-07-2006, 12:38 PM

You misunderstand now.
Look at yourself at the mirror.(still remember this).

Sir Bahamut,I am sorry if we have a little argument a while ago,I hope you can forget our argument.

Peace.

Sir Bahamut

07-07-2006, 12:42 PM

Look at yourself at the mirror.(still remember this).

You mean the time you told me via PM that I had a child inside me trying to express itself, but my other overly adult part was repressing it, which you thought was a shame? Yeah, I remember that. It was pretty fun :rolleyes2

But I guess I'm getting off topic, so I'll add that I still maintain TC to be impossible to fully grasp.

Ryushikaze

07-07-2006, 12:42 PM

At least Sir Bahamut understands that he does not understand everything. It is more than can be said of you, Viator.

Viator

07-07-2006, 12:45 PM

You mean the time you told me via PM that I had a child inside me trying to express itself, but my other overly adult part was repressing it, which you thought was a shame? Yeah, I remember that. It was pretty fun

Exactly.
That's not really funny but at least that message can touch your heart a bit.

But I guess I'm getting off topic, so I'll add that I still maintain TC to be impossible to fully grasp.

That's why I want you to help Me to explain this TC thing.
If we want to try it one by one we will have absolute theory about TC.

Sir Bahamut

07-07-2006, 12:48 PM

Thanks for the offer, but I'll pass this time.

Viator

07-07-2006, 12:49 PM

That is proof that you are just a kid!

Ryushikaze

07-07-2006, 01:39 PM

Viator, have you heard the one about the pot? How about glass houses?

Levian

07-07-2006, 02:10 PM

Come on guys, now it isn't funny anymore. I haven't been on this particulair forum for long but i'm pretty sure that they don't tolerate flaming and useless posts.

Our posts are just as useless as the rest of the posts in this thread. I don't see the difference between our wild theories and Viator's wild theories.

Rocket Edge

07-07-2006, 08:41 PM

Time Compression is compressed time
No,TC is absorbing Time and Space.
How can you absorb something infinite;Time IS infinite.In the game many character said TC is compressing Time(past,present and future)
?.. That makes no sense, you just hypicritised what your answer is in two sentences. I apprieciate the fact that your donating your thoughts to us, but when you try to explain it as if your quoting from a dictionary it makes it hard to read, aswell as boring.

07-07-2006, 08:51 PM

Griever = 50 Cent

Evidence:

They are both big and muscley
they are both black
they both have big teeth

it's conclusive. Ultimecia = Eminem

Squall = Ja Rule

Levian

07-07-2006, 08:57 PM

Quistis is Christina Aguilera, cus she's so dirrty. Read it over and over again till you understand it.

07-07-2006, 08:59 PM

Bahamut = Odin

it's quite simple really, both of them were born on october the 32nd. although bahamut may or may not be the lovechild of doomtrain and diablos. It's quite simple once you think about it. Read it over and over again till you understand it.

Levian

07-07-2006, 09:04 PM

Gilgamesh = Galbadia Garden.

Well, they're both big and red, and you never know when they might pop out of nowhere. I don't really feel like arguing about this one so it would be nice if you could just drop it and assume that this is true.

07-07-2006, 09:08 PM

I will have to dispute you on that point, gilgamesh cannot = galbadia garden because galbadia garden = cid, they are both fat, and red.

I am right.

Levian

07-07-2006, 09:09 PM

Look, I have already proven that it is true. Read it over and over again till you understand it.

07-07-2006, 09:13 PM

I have already proven that you are unreliable. How did I do this? Easy, Levian = Yuffie, and everyone knows Yuffie is a liar and a materia thief and you can't be trusted. I know you are Yuffie because you are a small 16 year old azn female and you are also a ninja and you stole my materia.

Levian

07-07-2006, 09:17 PM

Well, Kyono = Bite Bug. You're all bark and no bite. Wait, that didn't make sense.

07-07-2006, 09:23 PM

I think the real issue at hand is that Viator = Vinzer Deling.

Both of their names start with V. It's quite simple once you think about it. Read it over and over again till you understand it.

Levian

07-07-2006, 09:30 PM

Ok, let's look at the names. If we unscramble Viator we get Riot VA. Riot means trouble, no doubt about that, and VA is the abbreviation of Vinzer Asthma. So I guess he has Asthma or something. Now let's unscramble Vinzer Deling. Dinner el vigz. This is spanish for Dinner with wigs. Vinzer is bald, and he has asthma. Go figure.

07-07-2006, 09:40 PM

Not only that, but if you take the letters I and A from Viator and N and Z fron Vinzer and sort them correctly, you get NAZI. This is obviously a connection because Vinzer secretly wanted to be a Dictator, and Viator ends in tor, just like Dictator.

If you want to delve even deeper into it, Both of the names consist of 6 letters starting with the letters VI. VI in roman numerals is 6, just like the letters of their names. There are also six letters in Asthma, and Vinzer Delings mother was called Asthma Viator Deling. This is conclusive proof.

Levian

07-07-2006, 09:43 PM

Yeah, that's definitely mentioned in Disc 2 if you have 78 potions when you go to Timber.

07-07-2006, 09:44 PM

http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-Direction.jpg

Hearts

07-07-2006, 09:53 PM

http://www.forumspile.com/Thread-Direction.jpg
*agreeing*

Sir Bahamut

07-07-2006, 10:23 PM

I disagree. This is the truth.

Lychon

07-07-2006, 10:24 PM

At least Sir Bahamut understands that he does not understand everything. It is more than can be said of you, Viator.

Uh, uh, uh...again with the condescending insults? Haven't you been warned about this exact same thing before? Viator's efforts are sincere, as opposed to Sir Bahamut's who waivers back and forth between absolutes and possibilities.

I disagree. This is the truth.
See? lol

-LYCHON

Viator

07-08-2006, 10:48 AM

We are talking about TC and TD in this thread if you want to talk about something else why you dont start a new thread.

?.. That makes no sense, you just hypicritised what your answer is in two sentences. I apprieciate the fact that your donating your thoughts to us, but when you try to explain it as if your quoting from a dictionary it makes it hard to read, aswell as boring.

You should read Theory of Relativity then.

I disagree. This is the truth.

You just keep talking like this while you say My explanation is groundless but so far you dont even show My explanation is wrong just keep talking nonsense.

Energy that get absorbed inside TC is equal with Energy emited after TC ended;when Time Decompression began.

Energy TC < = > Energy TD

))))))))))))))))Time |
))))))))))))))))))))))*
Space | = __________ Time Compression's Formula
))))))))*))))))))))))^
)))))))))))))Energy |
)))))))))))))))))))))))))
))))))))))))))))))))) ^
))))))) ^))))))Time |
Space | = ____________ Time Decompression's Formula
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))) Energy |))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))*))))

PS : * = the opposite of ^.
) = nothing

Christmas

07-08-2006, 11:08 AM

You people still don't catch the truth of FF VIII. PuPu is the real ultimate smurfing hero of the whole game.

Look, it is PuPu that created the world and mortals only know the great mightly him as HYNE.

PuPu enjoy patrolling his world in his little spaceship ensuring security for both monsters and humans alike. He also make sure there isn't any prostitution or drugs dealings in his world. See? There isn't any whores or drugs in the FF VIII world unlike FF VII.

It was until he realize Ultimecia the sorceress in name which is actually a Mafia Leader intend to defill his world with drugs and prostitution.

Finally, he decided to do something about it and it will only be revealed next time.

Sir Bahamut

07-08-2006, 11:09 AM

You just keep talking like this while you say My explanation is groundless but so far you dont even show My explanation is wrong just keep talking nonsense.

Sorry, but your posts do the job all by themselves.

Viator

07-08-2006, 11:11 AM

Sorry, but your posts do the job all by themselves.

You still dont understand,do you?
Just saying explanation is groundless doesnt prove anything kid.

Sir Bahamut

07-08-2006, 11:24 AM

Ahem:

))))))))))))))))Time |
))))))))))))))))))))))*
Space | = __________ Time Compression's Formula
))))))))*))))))))))))^
)))))))))))))Energy |
)))))))))))))))))))))))))
))))))))))))))))))))) ^
))))))) ^))))))Time |
Space | = ____________ Time Decompression's Formula
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))) Energy |))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))*))))

Case closed. End of discussion. QED.

Viator

07-08-2006, 11:27 AM

Sir Bahamut

07-08-2006, 11:28 AM

Viator, you clearly don't get it. Keep rereading and perusing it until you understand me.

Viator

07-08-2006, 11:30 AM

Why I have to understand your nonsense KID?

Sir Bahamut

07-08-2006, 11:35 AM

Because it's the TRUTH.

*wonders how much longer it will take before thread gets closed -_-*

Viator

07-08-2006, 11:39 AM

Truth is something which is true whether you believe it or not.

*wonders how much longer it will take before thread gets closed -_-*

You wish this thread get closed because you are afraid that I am right.
Look at the mirror KID.

hb2

07-08-2006, 11:58 AM

I must say i don't quite understand that.. formula.. either but just persistantly provoking eachother to argument off topic discussion is crap. This thread is better of closed, because even if a valid discussion arises, other posters will see some spam and think this is another spam thread.

And some pages back some replied to my "i thought flaming wasn't allowed here" with something in the same sense as "apparently not" and a few posts after that a member with "staff member" under it's name was joining the flaming. wasn't it his job to close this instead of joining the spam :S:S:S:S

Viator

07-08-2006, 12:03 PM

I must say i don't quite understand that.. formula..

Just read Theory of Relativity .

Jimmy Dark Aeons Slayer

07-08-2006, 12:13 PM

Actually i don´t know why you keep calling Sir Bahamut KID he seems to be dealing this subject with more maturety than you Viator.

Was it because of this that Lychon was banned?

hb2

07-08-2006, 12:14 PM

I must say i don't quite understand that.. formula..

Just read Theory of Relativity .
wasn't that theory irrelevant in ff8?

Viator

07-08-2006, 12:18 PM

wasn't that theory irrelevant in ff8?

That theory also talking about time,space,time travel ect.

Actually i don´t know why you keep calling Sir Bahamut KID he seems to be dealing this subject with more maturety than you Viator.

He dealing this subject with ignoring the fact.

Was it because of this that Lychon was banned?

I cant believe Lychon get banned.
I know he always like that but... does this mean he cant join EOFF Forum again?

If we talking about Time Travel,we always talking about killing your grandfater or your father,ect.
This example is nonsense,We can do anything else in the past,why we have to kill our grandfather or father,ect when we are in the past.(to be continue)

Space always changing that means time will never stop;time is infinite.

PS : I will off-line from this forum for few days.I hope you can stay on topic.

Psychotic

07-08-2006, 04:31 PM

Viator, do not make personal attacks on people, and especially not based on their age, or you will find your stay here will be brief.

Also, don't act like your opinion is the absolute truth. It isn't, and if it was, there'd be no point in holding discussions.

hb2

07-09-2006, 11:47 AM

what exactly is it that we're suppost to discuss again, i'm not in the mood to find the usefull replies in the pile of spam here

Sir Bahamut

07-09-2006, 12:00 PM

Well, ideally we should be discussing whether or not Viator's theory on time compression is valid or not, but I think most people made their conclusions a long time ago on that. But by all means, if you go to the very first page, you'll find his up to date idea.

Viator

07-10-2006, 09:19 AM

I think I have a little time on My hand right now...

Viator, do not make personal attacks on people, and especially not based on their age, or you will find your stay here will be brief.

You dont understand,I call Sir B with Kid because it's a little problem with Me and him.And He doesnt really mind I call him kid.
I mean I call him kid just want to test him.

Also, don't act like your opinion is the absolute truth. It isn't, and if it was, there'd be no point in holding discussions.

If this IS the Truth and people dont believe it,doesnt it mean this is gonna be a long discussion.

Well, ideally we should be discussing whether or not Viator's theory on time compression is valid or not, but I think most people made their conclusions a long time ago on that. But by all means, if you go to the very first page, you'll find his up to date idea.

Actually most people only talk whatever they want,so this thread never developed.

))))))))))))))))Time |
))))))))))))))))))))))*
Space | = __________ Time Compression's Formula
))))))))*))))))))))))^
)))))))))))))Energy |
)))))))))))))))))))))))))
))))))))))))))))))))) ^
))))))) ^))))))Time |
Space | = ____________ Time Decompression's Formula
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
)))))))))))))) Energy |))))
)))))))))))))))))))))))*))))

PS : * = the opposite of ^.
) = nothing

I think you confused with that formula so I will make it simple this time.

Space <---- = ----> Time : Energy <---- Time Compression's Formula

Space ----> = <---- Time : Energy ----> Time Decompression's Formula

You will realise the energy explanation if you look at that formula.
Energy that get absorbed inside TC is equal with Energy emited after TC ended;when Time Decompression began.

Energy TC < = > Energy TD

Time Travel

Therer's a little question come up when we talk about Time Traveling.
Are Two Exact/Same soul can EXIST at the same time and space?
Therer's theory said that one of the soul must be dying and later die because one space and time can only be stayed by one Origin soul.
But not in FF8 world,We can see Big Squall and Little Squall at the ending event can exist at the same time and space.
So the answer from that question is YES!(to be continue)

I think you dont really understand My explanation well,maybe you already forgot the detail about TC.
So I STRONGLY recommend you to play the 4th disk(about TC event) once again.I think after that you will start to understand My theory.

PS : From now on I will try to explain it one by one,because if I explain it all together you will confuse,so stay tuned.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-10-2006, 09:30 AM

FYI, I don't think that Sir Bahamut was being serious with that diagram of his. I think he was doing what is commonly referred to as "taking the piss".

Sir Bahamut

07-10-2006, 09:43 AM

Actually,it was Viator's diagram, I was just quoting it.

Christmas

07-10-2006, 09:55 AM

[!]
You dont understand,I call Sir B with Kid because it's a little problem with Me and him.And He doesnt really mind I call him kid.
I mean I call him kid just want to test him.

Can I insult you to test you? :screwy:[/!]*snip*

Please stop spamming up the games forums with stuff like this. ~ Leeza

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-10-2006, 09:55 AM

Ah, ok. Seems kind of strange that he would refute the validity of his own diagram then...

Viator

07-11-2006, 10:51 AM

Actually,it was Viator's diagram, I was just quoting it.

Forget that,I already give you better explanation about that.

Can I insult you to test you?

Whatever.

Ah, ok. Seems kind of strange that he would refute the validity of his own diagram then...

Because that thing is wrong.

After I look at the formula I see there's a little mistake,so the TRUE FORMULA IS

----> Space <---- = ----> Time : Energy <----

Time Compression's Formula

<---- Space ----> = <---- Time : Energy ---->

Time Decompression's Formula

In Time Decompression quant space the energy in cm3 declines but the total quant energy is maintained constants.
That means energy always constants.

Energy TC < = > Energy TD

I am surprise nobody tells Me that mistake.

When TC happens it's not only absorb time and space but also energy because according to wave theory, time, space, and energy, are the three media that are woven together, (quant, wave formation). Wave theory shows how each has its own properties and behaviors, but one can not exist without the others, more over, each proposes explanation for the others, time alone do not exist, time shows some energetic activity in some space.

This theory shows us that time,space and energy are one entity.

The proof TC absorb energy is sorceresses' powers.
Sorceress' power is some kind of energy.
ThaT's why Ultimecia can absorb all soeceresses' powers when TC happens.But when TD happens all sorceresses's power back to the owners on their time and space.Ultimecia only has her powers when TC is over.

Viator

07-14-2006, 11:47 AM

Special Law of Time Compression.

1.Energy
Energy that get absorbed inside TC is equal with Energy emited after TC ended;when Time Decompression began.

Energy TC < = > Energy TD

2.Time
Time needed in the process of TC is the same with the time needed in the process of TD but time that get absorbed inside TC is not equal with time that out
of TC because Time is Relative.

3.Space
Total space that get absorbed inside TC is more solid than Space outside of TC/space that have not get inside TC.

-- ----> Space <---- -- = ----> Time : Energy <----

Time Compression's Formula

<---- -- Space -- ----> = <---- Time : Energy ---->

Time Decompression's Formula

hb2

07-14-2006, 12:12 PM

why is absorbed space more solid than the unabsorbed space?

Sir Bahamut

07-14-2006, 12:32 PM

Because Viator says so.

daggertrepe

07-14-2006, 06:05 PM

Wow. It's just a game. Time compression is probably not even physically possible, lol.

Viator

07-15-2006, 09:30 AM

why is absorbed space more solid than the unabsorbed space?

Because "absorbed space" is the center of Space/TC.
And I hope you can use your imagination to understand it.

I want to add something about that Special Law of TC.

Special Law of Time Compression.

1.Energy
Energy that get absorbed inside TC is equal with Energy emited after TC ended;when Time Decompression began.
In Time Decompression quant space the energy in cm3 declines but the total quant energy is maintained constants.
That means energy always constants.
Energy TC < = > Energy TD

2.Time
Time needed in the process of TC is the same with the time needed in the process of TD but time that get absorbed inside TC is not equal with time that out of TC/after TC over because Time is Relative but equal with total space that out of TC/after TC over.

Maybe this is the reason why Squall end up in the past.

3.Space
Total space that get absorbed inside TC is more solid than Space outside of TC/space that have not get inside TC.

-- ----> Space <---- -- = ----> Time : Energy <----

Time Compression's Formula

<---- -- Space -- ----> = <---- Time : Energy ---->

Time Decompression's Formula

Total space that get absorbed inside TC is not the same with total space that out of TC/after TC is over because space always changing and expand but equall with total time that out of TC/after TC over.

Maybe this is the reason why Rinoa,Quistis,Zell,Selphie and Irvine end up in that Void/White Space.

When space grows time also expands and energy decreases inversely in cm3 proportion, hence the energy per cubic cm decreases but total quantum energy is preserved (constants).

G SpOtZ

07-15-2006, 09:35 AM

I wonder if you can still get hungry in Time Compression. Or maybe you would gather the hunger that you've had from the past, in the present, and in the future. Same goes with thirst. So, maybe in Time Compression, all of the hotdogs within the past, present, and future, come together! Therefore, not only will Zell be hungry, his hunger will be rid of with all the hotdogs that exist! Wow. That's just awesome. I bet food can't spoil in Time Compression either. I would just LOVE to see an equation and explanation that would benefit me with this infinite hotdog theory.

Dr.Blue

07-16-2006, 06:16 AM

Ok boys, I think that this time compression thing is being read into WAY too deepley. I would wager that the men at Square never thought ANYONE would have this much time to waste on a minor part of Final Fantasy VIII's theory.
Ok, this is what I was alaways lead to believe, Ellone has the power screw with time, so Ulti used her to try to achieve time compression:

Because, as I've alaways though at least, Ulti wanted the powers of all Sorceresses, and she wanted to rule in a realm where she would never have to worry about being usurped.
Ok, so Ellone sends the gang to a time compressed wrold in progress (and yes, I mean time COMPRESSED, not absorbed or whatever)
Think about it, Ulti is trying to compress the entire dimension of time, how could this be possible? MAGIC!!! I don't know why this concept is so hard for Viator to get down, but that IS WHAT IS CAUSING IT. It's said countless times (hehe) in the game.

Anyway, the gang goes to Ulti's throne room and greases her. Because she is no longer compressing time, it falls back into whack, and everyone goes back home eventually.

No diagrams.
No equations.

But because Viator seems to think that no post is complete without confusing and misleading graphs...

3--------------------7-----------------------9-------sa----------11
|13***************************|**** **\**/
|***\2*****************************|**** ***\/
|****\*****************************|**** ** / 15
9*******>1------------1-----------------| /
|****/ 3

* = NOTHING (I just put them in to confuse everyone)
1 = Rinoa (PRESENT)
2 = squall, i think...
3 = this is where rinoa like, goes to compress the addetive inverse of time....
5 = wait, no, she first did this other stuff to find cc players?
6 = ultimecia uses the stoichyometric properties to controle time shifts
9 = and then...like, squall finds some island
9 = but at the same time, a bunch of stuff happends with the other sorceress
8 = Time Compression
9 = Time Decompression
8 = Time Wasted while the gang discusses these events in less detail than we are
11 = Sarah Conner
14= Miller Time
15 = Rinoa found Squall and after that back to the present

But really, this can be summed up with this impractical formula.

I=Am+(A)\Dork:For*%%-----Reading\\\}}}}}This```Useless///Tripe+=\That**Would-Make +The\Developers~Laugh-((((ThereButt'sOff

Zeromus_X

07-16-2006, 06:28 AM

Thank you so much.

Viator

07-16-2006, 12:43 PM

Ok boys, I think that this time compression thing is being read into WAY too deepley.

If you dont look at that way you wont fully understand TC.

Think about it, Ulti is trying to compress the entire dimension of time, how could this be possible? MAGIC!!! I don't know why this concept is so hard for Viator to get down, but that IS WHAT IS CAUSING IT. It's said countless times (hehe) in the game.

If you think again all character said TC is compresing time just to make a speculation about TC.Actually TC is absorbing time.
Time Compression is a word same as shoothing stars,we know that is not star we see fall BUT meteor.So the meaning of Time Compression is Absorbing Time and Space NOT Compresseng Time and Space.
You CANNOT compress Time because Time is infinite.
You CAN absorb Time even Time is infinite.

We have concluded (we did right?) Time Compression is actually Time absorbing (with lack of a better name).
The process however is still clouded into mysteries. The proces of time compression. Because time is infinite, the proces would keep happening.It's is said in the game that only Ultimecia would be able to live in a Time Compressed world. But Squall and co. can go to her time and fight her. This proves that the time is not compressed as that it's gathered in one point. It's more of a symbolic way which (by scanning the final form of U) By the process of absorbing the powers of time and space into one being

The last sentance is the most important in this post. (and the explanation is in the rest of the text)

Scan Ultimecia it said Absorbing Time and Space NOT compressing.
This is the proof that TC is absorbing NOT compressing.
How can you compress something infinte?
But you still can absorb something infinite.
I already give the argument about how time is infinite.

Time is one of the world's deepest mystery.No one can say exactly what it is. time has primarily been perceived as a virtual entity.Yet, the ability to measure time makes our way of life possible.Most human activities involve groups of people acting together in the same place at the same time.People could not do this if they did not measure time in the same way.

One way of thinking about time is a world without time.This timeless world would be at a standstill.But if some kind of change took place, that timeless world would be different "now" than it was "before".The period-no matter how brief-between "before" and "now" indicates that time must have passed.Thus,time and change are related because the passing of time depends on changes taking place.In real world,changes NEVER STOP HAPPENING,that means TIME IS INFINITE.Some changes seem to happen only once,like the falling of a particular leaf.Other changes happen over and over again,like the breaking of waves against the shore.

Any change that takes place again and again stands out from other changes.The rising and setting of the sun examples of such change.The first people to keep time probably counted such natural repeating events and used them to keep track of events that did not repeat.

Space always changing that means time will never stop;time is infinite.

PS : I think you dont really understand My explanationl,maybe you already forgot the detail about TC.
So I STRONGLY recommend you to play the 4th disk(about TC event) once again.I think after that you will start to understand My theory.

f f freak

07-16-2006, 12:56 PM

Viator

07-16-2006, 01:07 PM

I'm sorry Viator but you said you can't compress something infinite but you can absorb it. Well if that was the case then you would be absorbing it forever for it to work because infinite means it will go on forever so you will be absorbing forever meaning that really you can't absorb something infinite.

The Truth is The Process of Time Compression is The achievement of Time Compression.

That's why there's 2 Ultimecia.
The First Utimecia will keep absorbing Time,Space and Energy.
The Second Ultimecia will rule in TC World.

I recommend you to read My thread "Rev of the Truth".

Jimmy Dark Aeons Slayer

07-16-2006, 01:39 PM

:eep: :eep: :eep:

Dr.Blue

07-16-2006, 06:33 PM

Viator, what you fail to realize, is that time can be compressed.

"But time is infinite!!!"

So? It's a Final Fantasy, and the compression would be far from the most outlandish law defying incident.

Like magic and summons for instance, how are they somehow able to vomit all over the laws of the conservation of matter and energy?
According to you, using magic and summons must not be possible. Well the time thing is the same deal, and judging as how in the game they say "time compression" about 69,000 times, and "time absorption" once, I'd say it's fair to assume "time compression" is the right term.

Sir Bahamut

07-16-2006, 06:59 PM

Actually they never state "time absorbtion". Viator is deliberately twisting a scan info to his advantage. What the scan actually says of Ultimecia is that she is "Transformed to absorb time and space." In other words, her absorbing it is an entirely different process from time compression. Time compression was necessary for her to absorb it.

f f freak

07-16-2006, 07:27 PM

Sir B I love you. You rock. But Viator is getting on my nerves with his whole I know everything act.

Viator

07-17-2006, 10:54 AM

Viator, what you fail to realize, is that time can be compressed.

Dr.Blue, what you fail tor realize, is that time CANT be compressed because time is infinite.

Like magic and summons for instance, how are they somehow able to vomit all over the laws of the conservation of matter and energy?

Not really, you just dont understand.

According to you, using magic and summons must not be possible.

What do you mean?

Actually they never state "time absorbtion".

Actually we never state "shooting meteor".

Viator is deliberately twisting a scan info to his advantage. Viator is deliberately twisting a scan info to his advantage. What the scan actually says of Ultimecia is that she is "Transformed to absorb time and space." In other words, her absorbing it is an entirely different process from time compression. Time compression was necessary for her to absorb it.

That scan info tells us TC is absorbing NOT compressing and you just trying to change the meaning of that "scan info".

Sir Bahamut

07-17-2006, 11:04 AM

Scanning Ultimecia in her first form reveals:

"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses."

Then, she transforms for her final battle. The reason for her transformation is stated in her scan info:

"Ultimecia, transformed to absorb all time and space. Absorbing all existence as we speak."

Notice that it says ULTIMECIA is absorbing. Not TC. TC isn't even mentioned in the last scan info. So I'm afraid you're wrong :rolleyes2

Viator

07-17-2006, 11:15 AM

Notice that it says ULTIMECIA is absorbing. Not TC. TC isn't even mentioned in the last scan info. So I'm afraid you're wrong

That's nice trick but I already said that there's 2 phases in the process of TC.Ultimecia transformed because the process already reaching the phase 2,that's why Ultimecia can transformed to absorb Time,Space and Energy.Ultimecia is the center of TC.

Sir Bahamut

07-17-2006, 11:54 AM

I agree, Ultimecia is in the center of TC. So as time is compressed in towards her, she aborbs it all in her newly transformed shape. With it, she can also absorb space.

However, this is not the same as saying that time compression is time absorbtion. TC still only compresses time. It is Ultimecia, independent of TC, who absorbs it all. Your 2 phase thing has no backing anyway.

Dr.Blue

07-17-2006, 05:41 PM

Dr.Blue, what you fail tor realize, is that time CANT be compressed because time is infinite.

Christ, YES IT CAN! It they meant "time absorption" THEY WOULD HAVE SAID IT MORE THAN IN JUST ONE OBSCURE SCAN!!!

"But time is infinite!" So what? Seriously, it's a final fantasy, and it can do what it wants to do.

Like magic and summons for instance, how are they somehow able to vomit all over the laws of the conservation of matter and energy?

Sigh, ok than you, apparantly being the expert mage here, explain how magic and summons are possible, and how they continue to elude modern scientists today.

According to you, using magic and summons must not be possible.

Because magic and summons are just as impossible to occur as time compression, but what you fail to realize is that it's just a game, and you have to accept it all, or nothing.

That scan info tells us TC is absorbing NOT compressing and you just trying to change the meaning of that "scan info".

Yea! That must be why they said absorbing all thoes other times in the...oh wait...

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-17-2006, 06:06 PM

It should probably be noted that trying to use physics as anything more than a hypothisis as to what magic can and can't do within a work of fiction is utterly moronic and those that do so should be ridiculed accordingly.

Ryushikaze

07-17-2006, 06:49 PM

^Yes, but we should at least assume basic conservation. I mean, the rest of the rules of the universe appear to be more or less consistent with our own.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-17-2006, 07:02 PM

If there is nothing within the game that refutes conservation of energy (and I can't think of anything off the top of my head, possibly GFs), then yes. But trying to use physical concepts in order to refute information within the game (eg, claiming that time is not being compressed because it is not physically possible) is ridiculous.

Sir Bahamut

07-17-2006, 07:54 PM

Besides, there's nothing wrong with time compression in our universe. According to general relativity, time and space are equally malleable, so in principle, it should be possible to compress space-time, even though we might not be able to in practise.

Ryushikaze

07-17-2006, 08:35 PM

Well, technically speaking, compress space and you compress time. If all existence is a singularity, then no time exists. Ultimecia was attempting an unnecessarily grandiose form of big crunch.

Sir Bahamut

07-17-2006, 09:17 PM

Actually, in many ways Ultimecia seems to have been transforming herself into a super-massive black hole. Makes me wonder if Square didn't actually have real world physics in mind when making the game...

Viator

07-18-2006, 04:29 AM

"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses."

That scan info tells us Ultimecia is TRYING to compress time.She only T-R-Y-I-N-G,trying.Then she realized She cant to compress time because time is infinite, that's why in that Final Battle She transformed to absorb Time.

I hope with that/My explanation I already destroy this "compress" thing for good.

I agree, Ultimecia is in the center of TC. So as time is compressed in towards her, she aborbs it all in her newly transformed shape. With it, she can also absorb space.

I think you already misunderstand about TC.So far there's no proof time compressed towards Her,there's only the proof to show us that time absorbed towards Her.You can see that in Final Battle.

However, this is not the same as saying that time compression is time absorbtion.

However it's not the same as saying that shooting star as shooting meteor.

"But time is infinite!" So what? Seriously, it's a final fantasy, and it can do what it wants to do.

And I hope that can make you silence too (just kidding).

Sigh, ok than you, apparantly being the expert mage here, explain how magic and summons are possible, and how they continue to elude modern scientists today.

If I have to explain it to you then I have to kill you.

(eg, claiming that time is not being compressed because it is not physically possible) is ridiculous.

Not really that is the fact.

Well, technically speaking, compress space and you compress time. If all existence is a singularity, then no time exists. Ultimecia was attempting an unnecessarily grandiose form of big crunch.

That's why She absorbing Time.

Actually, in many ways Ultimecia seems to have been transforming herself into a super-massive black hole. Makes me wonder if Square didn't actually have real world physics in mind when making the game...

Actually Square already made good job to explain TC event to us.You just dont get it.

Ryushikaze

07-18-2006, 08:21 AM

Well, technically speaking, compress space and you compress time. If all existence is a singularity, then no time exists. Ultimecia was attempting an unnecessarily grandiose form of big crunch.

That's why She absorbing Time.

You don't seem to get this. Compress space and you compress time, since time a measure of permutations of space. If you can compress space as far as it goes into a singularity, then all time will be compressed along with it, so that there is no space, and no time. This is what Ulti wished to achieve so that she could recast it in her own image. However, she had to absorb while compressing, since she needed to BE the singularity, instead of part of it. This is fine if her end goal is to simply BE the universe.

However her goal wasn't to be the universe, it was to recreate it, and to create a universe by design, one must, by necessity, be more complex than the said universe, or quite simply waste yourself in doing so as Hyne- if he exists- seemed to. In Ulti's case, since she wanted to rule over this, this means she needs the mass/energy of previous time periods, allowing her to cheat basic conversion laws in an I don't know how manner, by compressing all previous time and space and using it as her fuel source. Thus she compresses prior time, up to her current point- Not an impossible goal if she compresses at a rate faster than one unit of time per unit of time- then when uses this, once it is sufficient, to reshape her present existence as she sees fit.

Granted, this is blatantly paradoxical in ways I don't even want to touch, but so is Time Compression to begin with.

Viator

07-18-2006, 09:34 AM

If you can compress space as far as it goes into a singularity, then all time will be compressed along with it, so that there is no space, and no time.

Sorry,but you have to know that you CANT compress space because space always expand and time is infinite.

As far as reality goes you cant compress time and you keep talking this compressing thing while compressing time and space is impossible.

I recommend you to read all My explanation about TC because if you only read it once you wont get it.I want you to peruse it again

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 09:49 AM

Stop saying you can't compress time. The game says you can, there for you are wrong.

Viator

07-18-2006, 09:54 AM

How many times do I have to tell you.
All character said "compressing time" just to make a speculation about TC.
How the hell they know TC is compressing time while they dont know anything about TC at that time?
So all character said "compressing time" only to make a speculation about TC.

Ryushikaze

07-18-2006, 10:00 AM

Y'know what, I'VE READ YOUR EXPLANATION COUNTLESS TIMES. IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE BECAUSE IT IS UTTERLY GROUNDLESS. It is based on misrepresenting quotes, twisting scanty evidence to say things it absolutely doesn't, and your own personal wishes. Let me put this another way, bluntly and in all caps so as to make sure my meaning is clear. YOUR EXPLANATION PISSES ALL OVER THE AVAILABLE EVIDENCE. THIS MEANS IT IS NOT A GOOD EXPLANATION.

And you know what? F*** you and your "Maybe you should read it again" ****. Did it EVER, EVER occur to you that when the nigh unanimous concensus is that your doped up little postulate DOES NOT COMPUTE, the problem may, in fact, be with yourself, and NOT the multitudes who are deeming it illogical, in violation of parsimony, unsupported in canon and just plain badly explained or possibly MEANINGLESS?

I hereby submit to the metaphorical table that you be asked to put your money where your mouth is and submit a singular, comprehensive, detailed, and definitive version of your postulate, in one place, for all to see, devoid of meaningless diagrams, a priori claims, circular reasoning, unsupported claims, and all manner of logical fallacies.

If your postulate thinks it can handle the oven, then it is time for the heat.

And Time is Finite. Head backwards enough and you hit the start of time. All Ulti has to do is compress backwards, and ignore forwards, which is redundant to her goals in the first place.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 10:01 AM

Ultimecia uses the term 'Time Compression' and 'Compressiong Time' to describe it herself.

You're still wrong.

EDIT: Agreein' with Ryushikaze

G SpOtZ

07-18-2006, 10:02 AM

As far as reality goes...(insert rest of sentence here)
So THAT'S why we're on different wavelengths. Sorry, I didn't realize FF8 was reality. :rolleyes2

Viator

07-18-2006, 10:06 AM

Y'know what, I'VE READ YOUR EXPLANATION COUNTLESS TIMES. IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE BECAUSE IT IS UTTERLY GROUNDLESS. It is based on misrepresenting quotes, twisting scanty evidence to say things it absolutely doesn't, and your own personal wishes. Let me put this another way, bluntly and in all caps so as to make sure my meaning is clear. YOUR EXPLANATION PISSES ALL OVER THE AVAILABLE EVIDENCE. THIS MEANS IT IS NOT A GOOD EXPLANATION.

I already said it depends on one's perpective.
The reasult is you misunderstand My explanation.

And you know what? F*** you and your "Maybe you should read it again" ****.

Ryusikaze, please dont make a personal attact like that.Take it easy.

And Time is Finite. Head backwards enough and you hit the start of time. All Ulti has to do is compress backwards, and ignore forwards, which is redundant to her goals in the first place.

If time is finite you cant go to the past.

Ultimecia uses the term 'Time Compression' and 'Compressiong Time' to describe it herself.

Ultimecia uses TC term because She thinks she can compress time but She was wrong that's why She absorb Time

"A sorceress trying to change the world by compressing time and taking power from all sorceresses."

That scan info tells us Ultimecia is TRYING to compress time.She only T-R-Y-I-N-G,trying.Then she realized She cant to compress time because time is infinite, that's why in that Final Battle She transformed to absorb Time.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 10:15 AM

Ignoring the absurd notion that Ultimecia doesn't know the nature of her own spell for a second, Ultimecia is STILL talking about time compression in her final form (ie, the one that is absorbing time)

I am Ultimecia.
Time shall compress...
...All existence denied.

You're still wrong. How much more time must I waste listening to you?

Viator

07-18-2006, 10:20 AM

She ONLY said "Time shall compress..."
But She doesnt said "Time will compress..."
So she wishes to compress time even knowing time is infinite.
But the result is She absorb time.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 10:27 AM

She ONLY said "Time shall compress..."
But She doesnt said "Time will compress..."
I recommend www.dictionary.com

Also, lol at trying to take this thread back to a debate over semantics.

G SpOtZ

07-18-2006, 10:28 AM

Good thing this is only a theory, and not the truth. *wipes forehead*

Viator

07-18-2006, 10:31 AM

You just misunderstand the meaning of Her words.
You can see in that Final Battle Ultimecia absorbing time not compressing time

G SpOtZ

07-18-2006, 10:35 AM

You just misunderstand the meaning of Her words.
You can see in that Final Battle Ultimecia absorbing time not compressing time
Well now THAT'S interesting. I'd like to see a screenshot for undeniable proof, and a solid explanation of how you are able to tell whether she is absorbing time, please. Thanks =]

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 10:39 AM

I somehow doubt that someone who doesn't know that 'shall' and 'will' imply the same resolution has a better understanding of the English language than me.

Viator

07-18-2006, 10:39 AM

Ultimecia transformed to ABSORB time and space, to absorb all existance as we speak

In that scan info proves that Ultimecia is absorbing time not compressing time.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 10:43 AM

No, it says she is absorbing time. It doesn't say crap about whether she is compressing it or not.

Viator

07-18-2006, 10:45 AM

It doesn't say crap about whether she is compressing it or not.

She doesnt compressing time because time is infinite, that's why She absorbing time.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 10:48 AM

More than enough people have already pointed out how BS your "She can't compress time because it's infinite" stance is. Stop going around in circles.

Viator

07-18-2006, 10:50 AM

No, you are the one should stop talking "compressing time".

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 10:53 AM

Well done. You've finally run out of crap to say and now degenerated into a "SHUT UP I'M RIGHT AND NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO YOU" stance. That took far too long.

G SpOtZ

07-18-2006, 10:57 AM

I have a question for Viator.

Do you believe that this is just a theory? Or are you telling us that Square intended for this to be the truth, as a fact?

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 10:59 AM

He had stopped posting. Why must you relinquish this moment of him not posting?

Viator

07-18-2006, 11:00 AM

Well done. You've finally run out of crap to say and now degenerated into a "SHUT UP I'M RIGHT AND NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO YOU" stance. That took far too long.

If you fully understand My previous post you wont say that

Do you believe that this is just a theory? Or are you telling us that Square intended for this to be the truth, as a fact?

Need not to know.

G SpOtZ

07-18-2006, 11:01 AM

Need not to know? I asked a simple question, can you not answer it for me? I'm just wondering.

Viator

07-18-2006, 11:03 AM

Need not to know? I asked a simple question, can you not answer it for me? I'm just wondering

And I already give you the final answer.

Need not to know

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 11:04 AM

If you fully understand My previous post you wont say that

People understand your posts; stop acting as if this is the problem. If nobody understands you, it's because your posts didn't imply the meaning you wanted to begin with and you have thusly wasted your own time and the time of everyone who read this thread.

Viator

07-18-2006, 11:06 AM

I only said My "previous post" not "all My post".

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 11:07 AM

And my comment applies to that post as well.

Also, it IS important that we know whether you consider this a theory or absolute truth. People would be a hell of a lot less annoyed with you if it was the former rather than the latter.

Viator

07-18-2006, 11:12 AM

And my comment applies to that post as well.

If you fully understand that/"My previous post", you will change your comment.

G SpOtZ

07-18-2006, 11:15 AM

I'm not gonna touch this thread anymore, because I feel like I'm not getting to be a part of it. =\

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 11:17 AM

No, because my comment was based on exactly what that post implied. It's not my problem if it had some cryptic meaning that only you understand. How the hell do you expect to get anywhere in a debate if you don’t make your meaning clear?

Viator

07-18-2006, 11:22 AM

Also, it IS important that we know whether you consider this a theory or absolute truth.

A theory can become absolute truth and absolute truth can become A theory, it's only the matter of one's perspective.(i.e theory of evolution)

No, because my comment was based on exactly what that post implied. It's not my problem if it had some cryptic meaning that only you understand. How the hell do you expect to get anywhere in a debate if you don’t make your meaning clear?

Maybe you only misunderstand or dont understand My explanation.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 11:27 AM

Urgh!

People understand your posts; stop acting as if this is the problem. If nobody understands you, it's because your posts didn't imply the meaning you wanted to begin with and you have thusly wasted your own time and the time of everyone who read this thread.

Viator

07-18-2006, 11:31 AM

Stop talking about personal problems and focus on the topic.

Lilliputian Hitcher

07-18-2006, 12:02 PM

What? That didn't even begin to make sense. If that was an attempt at humor, you failed dismally.

f f freak

07-18-2006, 06:34 PM

I'm sorry Viator but if it is not possible to compress time then it is not possible to absorb it, now I am quoting from you, because time is infinite meaning they would be absorbing forever and ever and ever if your theory is true. Also may I add that this is only a game and their are only a certain few people who know the truth and that is the CREATORS!!!!

Ryushikaze

07-18-2006, 07:36 PM

I already said it depends on one's perpective.
The reasult is you misunderstand My explanation.

See, here's the thing. IT SHOULDN'T depend on one's perspective. It should be true, regardless of the perspective you have on it.

Ryusikaze, please dont make a personal attact like that.Take it easy.

You think THAT'S a personal attack? You have no idea what a personal attack is, do you?

If time is finite you cant go to the past.

Unsupported claim. PROVE IT.

Ultimecia uses TC term because She thinks she can compress time but She was wrong that's why She absorb Time

I like how you act as if absorbing time is a change of tactic for Ulti, given that her goal was to BECOME REALITY in the first place, requiring it's absorption. Of course, in this case, absorbing time would compress it, since she was not becoming any more voluminous as she absorbed.

That scan info tells us Ultimecia is TRYING to compress time.She only T-R-Y-I-N-G,trying.Then she realized She cant to compress time because time is infinite, that's why in that Final Battle She transformed to absorb Time.

Prove time is infinite. Prove time cannot be compressed IF infinite. Prove she was even trying to compress the future instead of the much simpler, effective, and sensible act of using the past as fuel for the recasting of existence.

Then again, religion never needs proof. Just asserations, and that's all you're giving us. So how about you stop calling this a theory and admit it's a religion.

A theory can become absolute truth and absolute truth can become A theory, it's only the matter of one's perspective.(i.e theory of evolution)

OH NO IT CAN'T! You don't even understand the scientific method! A theory is never absolute truth, it merely attempts to explain the observed phenomenon. It can NEVER become absolute truth.

The theory of evolution is the 'best fit' way to explain the process of evolution, which, sorry to all you creation nutters out there, is now an observed phenomenon, what with the nylon and styrofoam eating bacteria that have evolved in the last 100 years.

Viator

07-19-2006, 10:10 AM

I'm sorry Viator but if it is not possible to compress time then it is not possible to absorb it,

It is possible to absorb something that infinite.

now I am quoting from you, because time is infinite meaning they would be absorbing forever and ever and ever if your theory is true.

That's why there 2 Ultimecias in the Final Battle.
The First Ultimecia will keep absorbing time.
The Second Ultimecia will reign in TC world.

If you see it like this way, you will realise Why Ultimecia can absorbing time.

Also may I add that this is only a game and their are only a certain few people who know the truth and that is the CREATORS!!!!

The Creator is Ultimecia.

See, here's the thing. IT SHOULDN'T depend on one's perspective. It should be true, regardless of the perspective you have on it.

Of course it depends on one's perspective.
For example : 10 person read a bible and the result is only 1 person believe that bible while the others dont believe it.
You see,it depends on one's perpective.

You think THAT'S a personal attack? You have no idea what a personal attack is, do you?

Well if you ask one of the admin they will say you make a personal attack.

If time is finite you cant go to the past.

Unsupported claim. PROVE IT.

If time is finite you cant go to the past because there's no past or future in the "finite time".The finite time will over right away when the time is start because it's finite and only left with "timeless" when it's over and of course this is not the characteristic of Time because time never stop;time is infinite.

Squall can go to the past,that is the proof Time in FF8 World is infinite.

I like how you act as if absorbing time is a change of tactic for Ulti, given that her goal was to BECOME REALITY in the first place, requiring it's absorption. Of course, in this case, absorbing time would compress it, since she was not becoming any more voluminous as she absorbed.

you can imagine Her compressing Time but the fact is She absorbing Time.

Prove time is infinite.

I think this life is already enough to prove it.

Prove time cannot be compressed IF infinite.

Then I ask you a question how can you compress something infinite?

Prove she was even trying to compress the future instead of the much simpler, effective, and sensible act of using the past as fuel for the recasting of existence.

You said you already read My Explanation many times then why you still say something like that.

The hardest question about Time Compression is :
Why Ultimecia needs to go to the past to perform Time Compression?
Actually this is not a question, this question was only tricked us. We were tricked by this question for a long time and we were confused by this question, why? because this is not the right question.
The right question is : HOW Ultimecia performs Time Compression?
The answer is :
Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression.

We were always tricked by the fact Ultimecia go to the past, that’s why we always think she needs to go to the past to perform Time Compression.
Ultimecia doesn’t need to go to the past to perform Time Compression She ONLY needs Ellone’s Power to perform Time Compression.
Ellone’s Power can send someone's consciousness to the past.
So Ultimecia go to the past is INEVITABLE if She wants to perform Time Compression because that is how Ellone's Power works(send someone's consciousness to the past).
Ultimecia uses Ellone’s Power when she go to the past and cast Time Compression Magic to make Time Compression happens.

Ultimecia cast Time Compression Magic + Ellone’s Power = Time Compression.

Then again, religion never needs proof. Just asserations, and that's all you're giving us. So how about you stop calling this a theory and admit it's a religion.

If religion never needs proof then that is not religion,that is belief.

OH NO IT CAN'T! You don't even understand the scientific method! A theory is never absolute truth, it merely attempts to explain the observed phenomenon. It can NEVER become absolute truth.

Then how about Newton's theory and Einstein's theory about Gravity?
Is that a theoy or an absolute truth?
I think they are both.

Will there be an infinite amount of time in the future? This is difficult to judge. According to the classical theory of the Big Bang, the answer depends on whether events will keep occurring. The best estimate from the cosmologists these days is that the expansion of the universe will continue forever. There always will be the events of galaxies getting farther apart, and so time will have an infinite duration in the future, even though gravity will continue to compact much of the matter into black holes.

I find an explanation about about time by Vincent Mianji.
Well just read it if you have time.

http://physics.nad.ru/engboard/messages/504.html

Ryushikaze

07-19-2006, 11:36 AM

It is possible to absorb something that infinite.

But not to compress it, even though by the very act of absorbing, you compress.

That's why there 2 Ultimecias in the Final Battle.
The First Ultimecia will keep absorbing time.
The Second Ultimecia will reign in TC world.

Except Ulti's goal was to recast reality once it was fully compressed.

If you see it like this way, you will realise Why Ultimecia can absorbing time.

*Twitches at the horrendous grammar* You assume many things. This time, you assume we deny that Ulti was absorbing compressed time. This is not true.

The Creator is Ultimecia.

Ultimecia did not write Final Fantasy Eight.

Of course it depends on one's perspective.
For example : 10 person read a bible and the result is only 1 person believe that bible while the others dont believe it.
You see,it depends on one's perpective.

Yes, bring up a faith based argument- one that actually wilts under a rational observation- to rebut a point about empiricism. DOES NOT COMPUTE. Let me rephrase this- YOUR POINTS SHOULD BE VERIFIABLE IN A RATIONAL, IMPERSONAL FASHION. Your evidence should not rely on personal perspective to even exist. Your problem is that all of your evidence is of this 'differing perspectives' kind. That, and 'It MUST be this way' sans support.

Well if you ask one of the admin they will say you make a personal attack.

Let me rephrase that: If you think that's a personal attack, you ain't seen nothin' yet. And no, it wasn't a personal attack. It was a vent about your inability to present a new response other than "It's YOUR problem, not mine, that my idea makes no sense"

If time is finite you cant go to the past because there's no past or future in the "finite time".The finite time will over right away when the time is start because it's finite and only left with "timeless" when it's over and of course this is not the characteristic of Time because time never stop;time is infinite.

This makes no sense, and you apparently misunderstand the meaning of finite. Try again.

Squall can go to the past,that is the proof Time in FF8 World is infinite.

No, it is proof that time travel is possible, which is NOT reliant upon finite or infinite time.

you can imagine Her compressing Time but the fact is She absorbing Time.

No DER. To become all existence, one must consume all existence.

I think this life is already enough to prove it.

Despite time having a beginning and a probable end?

Then I ask you a question how can you compress something infinite?

How can you absorb something infinite? The same way.

You said you already read My Explanation many times then why you still say something like that.

One of your 'proofs' against TC is the time is infinite. This is only the case IF the crunch does not occur and the future stretches endlessly. If Ulti only concerns herself with the past and absorbs at a rate faster than the passage of time, then the problem of infinite time is an utter non issue.

-snip-

I'm noticing a lot of unsupported claims presented as fact in here. Try empirical evidence next time. Hopefully in the form of in game evidence or authorial statements.

If religion never needs proof then that is not religion,that is belief.

Funny how those two words go hand in hand... Religion is almost always based off of a belief without evidence. Religions are also quite often dogmatic, refuse to show proof, and claim that those who disagree are somehow flawed- that the problem is with the disputer, not the claimant. Reminds me of someone.

Then how about Newton's theory and Einstein's theory about Gravity? Is that a theoy or an absolute truth?
I think they are both.

Both are merely theories.

They merely attempt to explain the objective reality they observe. They only claim to be truth inasmuch as they explain that reality very well. On the other hand, NO scientist worth their salt has the hubris to assume their theory is absolute truth.

Viator

07-19-2006, 12:13 PM

But not to compress it, even though by the very act of absorbing, you compress.

If you cant seperate the meaning of absorbing and compressing then you should stop talking those things.

Except Ulti's goal was to recast reality once it was fully compressed.

WRONG.

*Twitches at the horrendous grammar* You assume many things. This time, you assume we deny that Ulti was absorbing compressed time. This is not true.

What do you mean "compressed time' anyway?

Ultimecia did not write Final Fantasy Eight.

Ultimecia is The Creator of Time Compression.

Yes, bring up a faith based argument- one that actually wilts under a rational observation- to rebut a point about empiricism. DOES NOT COMPUTE. Let me rephrase this- YOUR POINTS SHOULD BE VERIFIABLE IN A RATIONAL, IMPERSONAL FASHION. Your evidence should not rely on personal perspective to even exist. Your problem is that all of your evidence is of this 'differing perspectives' kind. That, and 'It MUST be this way' sans support.

You said yes but you still keep talking like that?
Give Me a break...

Let me rephrase that: If you think that's a personal attack, you ain't seen nothin' yet. And no, it wasn't a personal attack. It was a vent about your inability to present a new response other than "It's YOUR problem, not mine, that my idea makes no sense"

Yes that is a personal attack.
It just your inability to understand My Explanation.

This makes no sense, and you apparently misunderstand the meaning of finite. Try again.

I think you are the one misunderstand the meaning of time.

No, it is proof that time travel is possible, which is NOT reliant upon finite or infinite time.

You still dont understand...?

No DER. To become all existence, one must consume all existence.

Ultimecia never trying to become all existance.
All existance is infinite.

Despite time having a beginning and a probable end?

Life never has a beginning or an ending.

How can you absorb something infinite? The same way.

Wrong answer.

One of your 'proofs' against TC is the time is infinite. This is only the case IF the crunch does not occur and the future stretches endlessly. If Ulti only concerns herself with the past and absorbs at a rate faster than the passage of time, then the problem of infinite time is an utter non issue.

It doesnt matter where Ulti cast the spell because Ultimecia is the center of TC.

I'm noticing a lot of unsupported claims presented as fact in here. Try empirical evidence next time. Hopefully in the form of in game evidence or authorial statements.

I already give the in game evidence and you still dont get it.

Funny how those two words go hand in hand... Religion is almost always based off of a belief without evidence. Religions are also quite often dogmatic, refuse to show proof, and claim that those who disagree are somehow flawed- that the problem is with the disputer, not the claimant. Reminds me of someone.

I hope we can stop talking this stupid religion thing.

Both are merely theories.

They merely attempt to explain the objective reality they observe. They only claim to be truth inasmuch as they explain that reality very well. On the other hand, NO scientist worth their salt has the hubris to assume their theory is absolute truth.

Their theories explain the reality in this universe and many scientists believe their theories.

Mirage

07-19-2006, 03:59 PM

Here's a newsflash. She doesn't have to compress all time, only back to the first sorceress. This means it is irrelevant whether time is finite or infinite.
That aside, I agree with Ultimecia first having to compress it in order to absorb it.

f f freak

07-19-2006, 04:54 PM

Ultimecia is The Creator of Time Compression
Actually Viator I said there is only set of people who know the truth the creators notice plural meaning I was talking about the people who created the game. Think before you post next time. Also you don't know that Ulti was the creator of TC there might have been countless Sorceresses who have tried to do it.

Ryushikaze

07-19-2006, 09:17 PM

If you cant seperate the meaning of absorbing and compressing then you should stop talking those things.

When you place more and more of something into a given volume without increading the volume, you compress it. As Ulti absorbs, she gathers more and more into her given volume. Compression occurs.

WRONG.

One word answers do not rebuttals make. You must provide a reason why I am wrong.

What do you mean "compressed time' anyway?

You've GOT to be joking. You are joking, right?

Ultimecia is The Creator of Time Compression.

Again, Ultimecia did not write Final Fantasy Eight.

You said yes but you still keep talking like that?
Give Me a break...

"What is Sarcasm, Alex" "That is correct". Just because I say 'yes', it doesn't mean I agree with you. A tip, read my bit here again, but when I say 'yes', imagine I am rolling my eyes, because I am.

Yes that is a personal attack.
It just your inability to understand My Explanation.

Well, if my original post qualifies as a personal attack, so does that.

I think you are the one misunderstand the meaning of time.

If you've got a better one than the one I used several posts ago, I'd like to see it.

You still dont understand...?

There's nothing to understand. Your argument of finite time is based on a false premise.

Ultimecia never trying to become all existance.
All existance is infinite.

The second is an unsupported and incorrect assumption. And if Ulti's not attempting to become existence- then why is she attempting to consume it all?

Life never has a beginning or an ending.

"Birth" and "Death" wish to have words.

Wrong answer.

It's not a wrong answer to point out the flaw in your thinking.

It doesnt matter where Ulti cast the spell because Ultimecia is the center of TC.

Irrelevant response! I said nothing about casting the spell! I said there was an incredibly easy workaround to one of your key 'disproofs'. Since you didn't address this, CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

I already give the in game evidence and you still dont get it.

Key word: EMPIRICAL.

I hope we can stop talking this stupid religion thing.

Just as soon as you stop spouting dogma.

Their theories explain the reality in this universe and many scientists believe their theories.

Which does NOT in any way, shape or form rebut the points I made in the argument you were responding to. Theories do a GOOD JOB of explaining reality. Scientists think these explain this best, but are always on the look out for a better theory. Even those who FRONT these theories are willing to discard them if a better, more parsimonious theory can be advanced.

Viator

07-20-2006, 04:23 AM

If you think Time is infinite you cant imagine it so it it'd better if you think "time never stop".
Time never stop that means time is infinite.

Here's a newsflash. She doesn't have to compress all time, only back to the first sorceress.

TC Magic happens to absorb time.

I agree with Ultimecia first having to compress it in order to absorb it.

Explain it more detail.

Actually Viator I said there is only set of people who know the truth the creators notice plural meaning I was talking about the people who created the game. Think before you post next time. Also you don't know that Ulti was the creator of TC there might have been countless Sorceresses who have tried to do it.

Square never attempt to explain TC in Ultimania guide book.

When you place more and more of something into a given volume without increading the volume, you compress it. As Ulti absorbs, she gathers more and more into her given volume. Compression occurs.

I already said that you can imagine Ultimecia compressing time but the fact is She absorbing Time.

Except Ulti's goal was to recast reality once it was fully compressed.

WRONG.

One word answers do not rebuttals make. You must provide a reason why I am wrong.

Because Time cant be fully compressed.

You've GOT to be joking. You are joking, right?

No, I am not joking?
There's no such thing as "compressed time"

"What is Sarcasm, Alex" "That is correct". Just because I say 'yes', it doesn't mean I agree with you. A tip, read my bit here again, but when I say 'yes', imagine I am rolling my eyes, because I am.

You shouldnt say "yes" from the first time then.
What do you mean Alex?

I think you are the one misunderstand the meaning of time.

If you've got a better one than the one I used several posts ago, I'd like to see it.

I already explaining how time is infinite in My previous posts.
Well if you want to hear more explanation about Time read http://physics.nad.ru/engboard/messages/504.html

There's nothing to understand. Your argument of finite time is based on a false premise.

Not really,you just dont understand how time works.

The second is an unsupported and incorrect assumption.

All existance is infinite,for example parents have children and then that children will become parents and have children again and so on and on and on.So that means All Existance is infinite.

And if Ulti's not attempting to become existence- then why is she attempting to consume it all?

First you already misunderstand about "Ultimecia becoming all existance"
She consuming it all to rule all existance.
She never trying to become all existance.

Key word: EMPIRICAL.

Key word: PERSPECTIVE.

How can you absorb something infinite? The same way.

Wrong answer.

It's not a wrong answer to point out the flaw in your thinking.

Yes that is wrong answer because you CANT compress something infinite.

Which does NOT in any way, shape or form rebut the points I made in the argument you were responding to. Theories do a GOOD JOB of explaining reality. Scientists think these explain this best, but are always on the look out for a better theory. Even those who FRONT these theories are willing to discard them if a better, more parsimonious theory can be advanced.

Their theories about gravity explain the truth about how gravity works in this universe.So their theories about gravity is ther truth.

One of your 'proofs' against TC is the time is infinite. This is only the case IF the crunch does not occur and the future stretches endlessly. If Ulti only concerns herself with the past and absorbs at a rate faster than the passage of time, then the problem of infinite time is an utter non issue.

It doesnt matter where Ulti cast the spell because Ultimecia is the center of TC.

Irrelevant response! I said nothing about casting the spell! I said there was an incredibly easy workaround to one of your key 'disproofs'. Since you didn't address this, CONCESSION ACCEPTED.

You are talking about past thing I thought you are talking about casting the spell.
It is still a problem to compress time because time is infinite.
Time is infinite is an issue for Ultimecia to compress time that's why She absorb it.

I recommend you to read
http://physics.nad.ru/engboard/messages/504.html

Mirage

07-20-2006, 04:29 AM

Here's a newsflash. She doesn't have to compress all time, only back to the first sorceress.

TC Magic happens to absorb time.

I agree with Ultimecia first having to compress it in order to absorb it.

Explain it more detail.

It seems you did not get the point of my post at all.
First, I do not need to explain that in more detail, because someone else already did it for me.
Second, my point was not about whether TC or TA is the correct answer. It was that all time did not have to be compressed for Ulty to achieve her goal. If she doesn't need to compress/absorb all time, it is irrelevant whether time is infinte or not.

Viator

07-20-2006, 04:41 AM

But She needs absorbibg Time to achieve Time Compression.
So it is relevant whether time is finite or infinite.

Ryushikaze

07-20-2006, 11:13 AM

If you think Time is infinite you cant imagine it so it it'd better if you think "time never stop".
Time never stop that means time is infinite.

Except you have not proved that time is infinite.

TC Magic happens to absorb time.

We are debating this. You cannot make a priori assumptions about what is in disputer.

Square never attempt to explain TC in Ultimania guide book.

Which does nothing against the fact that they created the concept and have final say, NOR does it give you absolute leeway.

I already said that you can imagine Ultimecia compressing time but the fact is She absorbing Time.

*sigh*
When you place more and more of something into a given volume without increading the volume, you compress it. As Ulti absorbs, she gathers more and more into her given volume. Compression occurs.

EVEN IF SHE ABSORBS, COMPRESSION IS A BYPRODUCT AND OCCURS ANYWAYS.

Because Time cant be fully compressed.

PROVE IT.

No, I am not joking?
There's no such thing as "compressed time"

A prior assumption. PROVE IT. The entire cast of FF8, AND its creators seems to think otherwise.

You shouldnt say "yes" from the first time then.
What do you mean Alex?

::Pulls out his list of things that go over Viator's head. Adds Sarcasm and obvious pop culture references to the bottom of the list::

I already explaining how time is infinite in My previous posts.
Well if you want to hear more explanation about Time read http://physics.nad.ru/engboard/messages/504.html

He begins with an unfounded assumption. IF time is as his unfounded assumption assume, he might have something. He does not prove his assumption, so he has nothing.

Not really,you just dont understand how time works.

"personal attack!" ::rolls eyes:: I dare say I understand far better than you do.

All existance is infinite,for example parents have children and then that children will become parents and have children again and so on and on and on.So that means All Existance is infinite.

Unless, of course, it all comes to an end. Which it very well may.

First you already misunderstand about "Ultimecia becoming all existance"
She consuming it all to rule all existance.
She never trying to become all existance.

Yet that's what her actions ENTAIL.

Key word: PERSPECTIVE.

And which one is scientifically, rationally, and logically valid? THAT'S RIGHT! EMPIRICAL!

Yes that is wrong answer because you CANT compress something infinite.

And you can't absorb anything infinite either.

Their theories about gravity explain the truth about how gravity works in this universe.So their theories about gravity is ther truth.

No.......... they are good explanations of an empirical observation of existence. Please stop confusing this with "the truth".

You are talking about past thing I thought you are talking about casting the spell.
It is still a problem to compress time because time is infinite.
Time is infinite is an issue for Ultimecia to compress time that's why She absorb it.

THE SAME PROBLEMS WILL BE HAD IN ATTEMPTING TO CONSUME THE INFINITE AS MUCH AS COMPRESSING IT, ESPECIALLY SINCE COMPRESSION IS PART AND PARCEL WITH CONSUMPTION.

I recommend you to read
http://physics.nad.ru/engboard/messages/504.html

I reccomend you stay away from pseudoscience BS in the future, which is what that link IS.

Mirage

07-20-2006, 12:25 PM

But She needs absorbibg Time to achieve Time Compression.
So it is relevant whether time is finite or infinite.

Time Absorbtion and Time Compression would be equally possible or impossible regardless of time being finite or infinite.

Look at this:
Time Absorbtion will never complete if time in infinite, thus she will keep doing it forever.
Time Compression will never complete if time is infinite, thus she will keep doing it forever.

Me believing time compression is necessarily in order to then absorb it is pretty irrelevant to these points.

Viator

07-21-2006, 12:27 PM

Alright I think we all confused about this "absorb" and "compress"
The meaning of compressing can become absorbing in Time Compression Condition.
So let we just say Ultimecia "consuming" Time.And because time is infinite the process of TC will go on forever.

Well the problem about absorbing and compressing solved.

The process of TC is The Achievement of TC

Here's a newsflash. She doesn't have to compress all time, only back to the first sorceress. That aside, I agree with Ultimecia first having to compress it in order to absorb it.

Understood but still the process will go on forever.

The process of TC is The Achievement of TC

Except you have not proved that time is infinite.

I already give the argument why time is infinite.
And again this Life is enough to prove time is infinite.
And I am sure you can prove time is infinite too.

We are debating this. You cannot make a priori assumptions about what is in disputer.

Let we figured it out then.

I already said that you can imagine Ultimecia compressing time but the fact is She absorbing Time.

*sigh*

Perspective.

EVEN IF SHE ABSORBS, COMPRESSION IS A BYPRODUCT AND OCCURS ANYWAYS.

Yeah the meaning of compressing and absorbing can become the same meaning in TC Condition, it only the matter how you look at that.

PROVE IT.

I am sure you can prove it yourself.

A prior assumption. PROVE IT. The entire cast of FF8, AND its creators seems to think otherwise.

There's no such thing like compressed time in the game.

He begins with an unfounded assumption. IF time is as his unfounded assumption assume, he might have something. He does not prove his assumption, so he has nothing.

His assumption makes sense.

"personal attack!" ::rolls eyes:: I dare say I understand far better than you do.

If that so you can prove time is infinite right?

Unless, of course, it all comes to an end. Which it very well may.

If that can come to an end... you go first...

Yet that's what her actions ENTAIL.

Dont misunderstand Her action.

And you can't absorb anything infinite either.

Yes you can, it just beyond our understanding to imagine it.

No.......... they are good explanations of an empirical observation of existence. Please stop confusing this with "the truth".

Still their theories about gravity is the truth about how this universe works.

THE SAME PROBLEMS WILL BE HAD IN ATTEMPTING TO CONSUME THE INFINITE AS MUCH AS COMPRESSING IT, ESPECIALLY SINCE COMPRESSION IS PART AND PARCEL WITH CONSUMPTION.

Continue your explanation.

Look at this:
Time Absorbtion will never complete if time in infinite, thus she will keep doing it forever.
Time Compression will never complete if time is infinite, thus she will keep doing it forever.

It doesnt matter if this process will go on forever.
That why there's 2 Ultimecias.
The First Ultimecia will keep the process of TC forever.
The Second Ultimecia will reign in TC World

Christmas

07-21-2006, 12:48 PM

One question my Dear Viator, do any of the attacks Ultimecia used when she fought Squall and CO had anything to do with this 9 pages long stuff of yours?

Viator

07-21-2006, 12:57 PM

One question my Dear Viator, do any of the attacks Ultimecia used when she fought Squall and CO had anything to do with this 9 pages long stuff of yours?

Well I already explain about that thing in post no 169.

When TC happens it's not only absorb time and space but also energy because according to wave theory, time, space, and energy, are the three media that are woven together, (quant, wave formation). Wave theory shows how each has its own properties and behaviors, but one can not exist without the others, more over, each proposes explanation for the others, time alone do not exist, time shows some energetic activity in some space.

This theory shows us that time,space and energy are one entity.

The proof TC absorb energy is sorceresses' powers.
Sorceress' power is some kind of energy.
That's why Ultimecia can absorb all sorceresses' powers when TC happens.But when TD happens all sorceresses's powers back to the owners on their time and space.Ultimecia only has her powers when TC is over.

f f freak

07-21-2006, 10:50 PM

And you can't absorb anything infinite either.

Yes you can, it just beyond our understanding to imagine it.
If you can absorb it then you can compress it. It is obviously just beyond your understanding to imagine it is how I think you put it.

Sir Bahamut

07-21-2006, 11:07 PM

I wonder if anyone else noticed that now that Viator is a regular here, Future suddenly stopped coming ;)