IX VS. VII and VIII

It's really tough for me, this are undoubtedly my 3 favorite Final Fantasy's and on any given day I could prefer one over another. When I first beat IX I thought that it had topped FFVII. However, years later, re-playing both many times, I had to switch my opinion:

The battle flow in FFVII greatly surpasses not only FFVIII and especially IX. In VI, VIII, and IX, you spend a great deal of time sitting there watching the battle unfolding, waiting for lengthy animations to end so you can input your next characters command, sometimes finishing long before the next lengthy animation will end. These 3 games each took the "A" out of ATB. In VII I felt the flow was perfect, a bar fills up, you go, you see what happens next, you're always on your toes. It also scores points for having the "Recommended" battle speed option, something no other FF has had, only stopping battle for lengthier animations such as summons. The camera angles and movements were also much more dramatic, whereas the camera was pretty static in VIII and slightly behind in IX.

We can argue all day about story, characters, and plot devices, but we couldn't come to definitive conclusions. However, battle is an important part of RPGs to me, and VII dwarfs the others, not only for the above reasons, but also because VIII started, and IX followed, the new FF tradition of having only 2-3 monsters on screen, and very rarely any more than that.

I also have to say that it's unreasonable for all of you to jump on Super Sepiroth for saying that it's child-like. FFIX is undoubtedly the corniest game in the series (again, it's one of, and on some days, my favorite). Zidane is a warm and fuzzy main character accompanied by warm and fuzzy sidekicks, the only time his personality changes is in pandemonium, which was actually pretty unbelievable because he unexplainably buys into Garland's logic after being so defiant against it. He's almost the definition of 2 dimensional. Also, VII and VIII in many cases "show" you the themes they're trying to convey, whereas IX has to "tell" you, such as Garland's lengthy monologue on societies. In visual storytelling, this is a very poor technique, and a huge mistake.

Lastly, I just want to say, that the amount of effort that IX put into making it seem like a "true-to-FF" game is a very un-FF thing to do. Having played all the FF's, the references don't really enrich the game for me, because in VII and VIII they were all more subtle and were more rewarding that way.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

We can argue all day about story, characters, and plot devices, but we couldn't come to definitive conclusions. However, battle is an important part of RPGs to me, and VII dwarfs the others, not only for the above reasons, but also because VIII started, and IX followed, the new FF tradition of having only 2-3 monsters on screen, and very rarely any more than that.

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How the battles play out may be important, but not what killed the game for me. For me, it was when I heard there was a treasure chest late in the game that could only be opened if you reach it within a certain period of total game time. That ruined the entire game for me. Being a perfectionist, I feel I have to get that item. However, speed running a FF game just feels wrong. Part of what I love about these games is being able to explore every nook and cranny of the world, talk to every NPC, learn every ability... Being driven to run through the game as fast as I can just ruins so much of the fun for me that the game isn't worth playing anymore, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

In VI [...] you spend a great deal of time sitting there watching the battle unfolding, waiting for lengthy animations to end

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Abuh?

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

We can argue all day about story, characters, and plot devices, but we couldn't come to definitive conclusions. However, battle is an important part of RPGs to me, and VII dwarfs the others, not only for the above reasons, but also because VIII started, and IX followed, the new FF tradition of having only 2-3 monsters on screen, and very rarely any more than that.

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How the battles play out may be important, but not what killed the game for me. For me, it was when I heard there was a treasure chest late in the game that could only be opened if you reach it within a certain period of total game time. That ruined the entire game for me. Being a perfectionist, I feel I have to get that item. However, speed running a FF game just feels wrong. Part of what I love about these games is being able to explore every nook and cranny of the world, talk to every NPC, learn every ability... Being driven to run through the game as fast as I can just ruins so much of the fun for me that the game isn't worth playing anymore, unfortunately.

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Sounds more like your craziness ruined IX for you.

The locations of FFVIII are much cooler than the locations of FFIX. That's the only thing I can say in defense of FFVIII.

I think you meant to type "epic," not "meh." =O

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Originally Posted by Roto13

Sounds more like your craziness ruined IX for you.

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Admitted. But I still feel that an FF game should not be built to promote speed runs.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Originally Posted by Roto13

Sounds more like your craziness ruined IX for you.

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Admitted. But I still feel that an FF game should not be built to promote speed runs.

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Its a like an extra challenge. Your not suppose to get it your first run through, it needs a file all of its own.

Tbh, I dont give a flying :skull::skull::skull::skull::skull: about the battle systems in Final Fantasy. Except for FFXII's.

Thats not strictly true but most important by far for me in FF games is the story, the music and the overall presentation.

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I also have to say that it's unreasonable for all of you to jump on Super Sepiroth for saying that it's child-like. FFIX is undoubtedly the corniest game in the series (again, it's one of, and on some days, my favorite). Zidane is a warm and fuzzy main character accompanied by warm and fuzzy sidekicks, the only time his personality changes is in pandemonium, which was actually pretty unbelievable because he unexplainably buys into Garland's logic after being so defiant against it. He's almost the definition of 2 dimensional. Also, VII and VIII in many cases "show" you the themes they're trying to convey, whereas IX has to "tell" you, such as Garland's lengthy monologue on societies. In visual storytelling, this is a very poor technique, and a huge mistake.

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Oh, hell no! Have you played FFVIII? The 'love' in that is ridiculously corny. Sure, FFIX felt corny, but it also felt inspired. FFVII lacked that feeling to some extent IMO.

I disagree strongly with Zidane being two-dimensional. You say that he 'unexplainably buys into Garland's logic after being so defiant.' But actually, it was quite natural. The follows sort of what the natural progression of feelings are when you hear bad news which you know in your heart is true.

Disbelief/Denial ------> Defiance/Anger------> Bargaining -------> Depression-------> Acceptance

Stages of Grief

Zidane follows those 5 stages of grief pretty much text book style. First he doesn't believe what Garland says, then he aggressively shouts at him saying how he is wrong. He skips out bargaining, but then thinks through all the things that happened to him. After a while of thinking (and getting knocked out) he begins to get depressed. Then you're not alone happens. I thought it was a pretty convincing performance - much better than Squall and Rinoa's performance! The you're not alone tune makes it that much more powerful.

About the last part - Garland only has one monologue! And it isnt even that lengthy. Here it is. I think its quite good tbh:

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Voice of Garland: ...Do not limit memory to just one individual's
experiences from birth. That is only the surface. Every life born into
this world, whether natural or artificial, requires a parent. And that
parent also requires a parent. Life is connected, one to another... If
you trace the root of all life, there exists one source. The same can
be said for memory. All life constitutes an intelligence that holds
memory beyond experience. Memory is not isolated within individuals. It
is an accumulation of generations of memories that continues to evolve.
You can say that memory and evolution go hand in hand. But most life-
forms do not understand the true nature of memories...
...which explains why most memories never cross paths.

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That was his only monologue.
It reminds me a bit of memetic theory. Final Fantasy VII uses that as well - at least Advent Children did.

Originally bespoken by Bolivar

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I also have to say that it's unreasonable for all of you to jump on Super Sepiroth for saying that it's child-like. FFIX is undoubtedly the corniest game in the series (again, it's one of, and on some days, my favorite)

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Thank You! :D

At least someone agrees, as for some of the other things said, if i weren't so tolerant i'd be offended lol.

Originally Bespoken by vivisteiner

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Oh, hell no! Have you played FFVIII? The 'love' in that is ridiculously corny. Sure, FFIX felt corny, but it also felt inspired. FFVII lacked that feeling to some extent IMO.

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You're gonna have to describe what you mean by corny- because in FF8 the only corny I saw was the opening sequence and stuff with the stupid stuff in the field with daisies and butterflies lol! Besides that I found Squall and Rinoa's Relationship reasonlably believeable

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Originally Posted by Roto13

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

In VI [...] you spend a great deal of time sitting there watching the battle unfolding, waiting for lengthy animations to end

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Abuh?

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Compare the time of "Ice" in FFVII to "Blizzard" in FFIX, or FFVIII for that matter. My inclusion of FFVI was for other ways in which the game effectively took the "A" out of ATB.

And Vivisteiner, your points are duly noted. However, as sappy as the love between Squall and Rinoa was in FFVIII, the love story between Zidane and Garnet was IMMENSELY cornier. Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration, but I would still say it was cornier. That's what gets me about IX fans and self-proclaimed "old-schoolers", that everyone usually overlooks how IX prominently featured a love story, and it was at some times more unbearable than VIII's. The only difference is that it wasn't on the logo.

And I have to say, battles do matter. That's pretty much the entire "game" aspect RPGs have, if it wasn't for that, you'd might as well watch movies or read books. And while I do hold this aspect in less regard than VII, the battles and character development system, plus different characters and their roles is a big part of what makes IX such a great game to me.

And your connection to the stages of grief/depression was very interesting, I give you points for that. But c'mon, for Zidane to be all cocky and defiant, then all of a sudden turn into Mr. Self-Loathing, even being mean to Vivi and Eiko, then all of a sudden being Mr. Upbeat again, it was all very unbelievable, and almost as simplistic as FFVI's World of Ruin character-regrouping side stories, in which the same thing happens for even less convincing reasons, except for multiple times in a row. Damn, I hate that game... (j/p)

But to add to all of it, the reason why he goes back to Mr. Positivity, is because he's reminded of his friends!!! Awww, isn't that special...

Again, IX is one of my favorite games of all time, not just FF, but make no mistake, this is the Walt Disney installment of the franchise.

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Originally Posted by Super Sepiroth

You're gonna have to describe what you mean by corny- because in FF8 the only corny I saw was the opening sequence and stuff with the stupid stuff in the field with daisies and butterflies lol! Besides that I found Squall and Rinoa's Relationship reasonlably believeable

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Oh, what about the whole ballroom episode. Then when Squall gets all upset over Rinoa, when before he couldnt give a rats ass about her. And then the scene on the Ragnorak.

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And Vivisteiner, your points are duly noted. However, as sappy as the love between Squall and Rinoa was in FFVIII, the love story between Zidane and Garnet was IMMENSELY cornier. Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration, but I would still say it was cornier. That's what gets me about IX fans and self-proclaimed "old-schoolers", that everyone usually overlooks how IX prominently featured a love story, and it was at some times more unbearable than VIII's. The only difference is that it wasn't on the logo.

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A matter of opinion I guess. I thought it was more natural than corny. It definitely seemed realistic - and I was glad that it wasnt a central theme. It seemed to be a much more genuine form of love than FFVIII's IMO.

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And I have to say, battles do matter. That's pretty much the entire "game" aspect RPGs have, if it wasn't for that, you'd might as well watch movies or read books. And while I do hold this aspect in less regard than VII, the battles and character development system, plus different characters and their roles is a big part of what makes IX such a great game to me.

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They do matter, but they all seemed pretty much equally good in each FF. Although FFVIII had ridiculously long summons.

The reason I like RPGs is its a visual representation of book with music. Its superior to films because there is so much more room for character developement.

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And your connection to the stages of grief/depression was very interesting, I give you points for that. But c'mon, for Zidane to be all cocky and defiant, then all of a sudden turn into Mr. Self-Loathing, even being mean to Vivi and Eiko, then all of a sudden being Mr. Upbeat again, it was all very unbelievable, and almost as simplistic as FFVI's World of Ruin character-regrouping side stories, in which the same thing happens for even less convincing reasons, except for multiple times in a row. Damn, I hate that game... (j/p)

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I dont think it was done that well. But it worked for me. Idk what to say. My opinion was that he suddenly felt this deep memory of his origins, deep down inside. He knew Garland was speaking the truth but he was defiant. He kind of collapsed from within because he knew everything Garland said was true.

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But to add to all of it, the reason why he goes back to Mr. Positivity, is because he's reminded of his friends!!! Awww, isn't that special...

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I think it was acceptance of who he really was and the wake up call from his friends that helped him. I do think his recovery was rushed a bit though.

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Again, IX is one of my favorite games of all time, not just FF, but make no mistake, this is the Walt Disney installment of the franchise.

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In other words it is the stuff that legends are made out of. ;)

Wasn't Garland trying to remove Zidane's soul/memories? I think this helped to make Zidane out-of-character in that scene.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

Wasn't Garland trying to remove Zidane's soul/memories? I think this helped to make Zidane out-of-character in that scene.

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He tried to turn him into a regular Genome to become a host for one of the Terrans.

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Garland: Foolishness... The body becomes a vessel, which greets a new soul...

Zidane: (feeling strange) What's happening!?

Zidane collapsed.

Garland: He's too good to make into a regular Genome... But I have no choice.

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FF9 =/< FF7.
FF9 > FF8.
Being beaten to death by all your relatives > FF8.

Was 9 any where near as popular as 7 or 8 though? I may be mis-informed but i think it didn't sell as many copies of either of them.

I've heard it wasn't as popular in terms of sales too. Maybe because it was released pretty much just before the PS2 hopped on the shelves?