Tunnel

Y'know, while there is a clear theme of light versus darkness, this game is pretty much the only one I've seen where the imagery is used to say that both sides are the same. I mean, Rinoa and Ulti as we see them in the game are opposites in every way. From the imagery with the wings, to their goals (fighting to protect and be with loved ones to fighting to eradicate all others), to their personalities. Normally this would indicate that Rinoa and Ulti are completely different, but instead, it is used by people to say that they are the same. Why?

Hell, Seifer and Squall have the whole equal and opposite thing going to. They both wield gunblades, they both have scars across their face, going in opposite directions. OMG, they must be the same individual.

Ulti and Rinoa are about as different as two people can be. Why do people insist on using this as a reason to support the R=U theory?

For illogical, look at your "Sealing Rinoa" thread...

For unrelated, Artemesia, motives of evil people are often the same

For unimportant, I refer you back to your "Sealing Rinoa" thread.

For thinking of everything as fact, I refer you yet again to "Sealing Rinoa", it is obviously not an R, and yet you continue to press the issue.

You may think I am being hypocritical, and I will agree.

I don't believe you actually believe in your own theorys, and you are only making these threads for fun, to get a quick, negative response out of us. This is my definition of a troll.

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Originally Posted by leader of mortals

I don't believe you actually believe in your own theorys, and you are only making these threads for fun, to get a quick, negative response out of us. This is my definition of a troll.

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Not to mention he made four of them in about ten minutes, all on the same topic (wild conspiracies gathered from a split second of freeze-frame), which makes it spamming as well as trolling.

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Originally Posted by leader of mortals

For illogical, look at your "Sealing Rinoa" thread...

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I posted a thread with the intention of finding out what's the second word after SEALING. <- Don't see how that's illogical.
If it says SEALING RINOA. It would mean that Esthar sealed her. <- Don't see how that's illogical.
If it says SEALING ADEL. It would mean Esthar sealed her at some point. <- Don't see how that's illogical.

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For unrelated, Artemesia, motives of evil people are often the same

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You're claiming as if you know everything about Ultimecia, her backstory, her reasons for having a castle and so on. True? If so, please tell me everything you know about her. I'm actually eager to know more!

And since this VIII game has religious and mythological things. It's irrelevant whether any real life history connection is related or not...

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For unimportant, I refer you back to your "Sealing Rinoa" thread.

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Again,

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Originally Posted by Serapy

Unimportant pieces? That depends on your interpretation on the game, really.

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Originally Posted by leader of mortals

For thinking of everything as fact, I refer you yet again to "Sealing Rinoa", it is obviously not an R, and yet you continue to press the issue.

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If there's no evidence that it shows "SEALING FLOOR", but rather "SEALING FL-something", then it's only a matter of opinion. Just because I don't agree with your opinion, it doesn't mean I automatically declare my opinion as fact.

The conclusion is that it appears to be SEALING FLOOR which I agreed since I posted the latest picture in this thread. It shows FL. So, it's likely to be FLOOR... but the fact still remain that there's no evidence that it shows 'SEALING FLOOR'.

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Originally Posted by leader of mortals

You may think I am being hypocritical, and I will agree.

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Actually, you are over exaggerating.
Have a look at one of your quotes:

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It isn't that what you are saying is new, it is because you base all of your opinions, which you regard as absolute facts(which they aren't), are based off of nothing more than illogical, unrelated, unimportant pieces of the game.

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This implies that ALL of my posts since April 2006 (have over 1000 posts in this forum) are 'are based off of nothing more than illogical, unrelated, unimportant pieces of the game'

How wonderful of you! Very nice! :D

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I don't believe you actually believe in your own theorys, and you are only making these threads for fun, to get a quick, negative response out of us. This is my definition of a troll.

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Actually, I do believe my own theories, thank you very much. And stop with the 'troll' excuses. If I express my findings with honesty, whether or not it annoys you, it doesn't mean I'm a troll.

It's really simple. If you actually view me as a troll, then stop reading my posts. Problem solved!

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Originally Posted by SkyBlade

Not to mention he made four of them in about ten minutes, all on the same topic (wild conspiracies gathered from a split second of freeze-frame), which makes it spamming as well as trolling.

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Actually, I do believe my own theories, thank you very much. And stop with the 'troll' excuses. If I express my findings with honesty, whether or not it annoys you, it doesn't mean I'm a troll.

It's really simple. If you actually view me as a troll, then stop reading my posts. Problem solved!

And no, I'm not spamming. My posts are relevant to VIII and my posts usually contain a lot of information, so it's not technically spamming. Just because you got annoyed at how many times I post, it doesn't mean I'm spamming! How is spending 20+ minutes typing various theories spamming? Hmmmmm.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

And no, I'm not spamming. My posts are relevant to VIII and my posts usually contain a lot of information, so it's not technically spamming. Just because you got annoyed at how many times I post, it doesn't mean I'm spamming! How is spending 20+ minutes typing various theories spamming? Hmmmmm.

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I'm not claiming your spamming just because you posted them a lot. I'm saying your spamming because you created four different threads in a matter of minutes all of which largely relate to the same topic. Your theories are all interwoven, so why couldn't you just post a single thread with all the pictures and all your conclusions about them and leave the forum uncluttered? That was how you spammed. I'm all up for discussing this stuff, but I fail to see the reason for having four different threads on it.

Also, in all your magnificent quoting, you failed to note this post of mine, which is a shame, because I rather liked it.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Y'know, while there is a clear theme of light versus darkness, this game is pretty much the only one I've seen where the imagery is used to say that both sides are the same. I mean, Rinoa and Ulti as we see them in the game are opposites in every way. From the imagery with the wings, to their goals (fighting to protect and be with loved ones to fighting to eradicate all others), to their personalities. Normally this would indicate that Rinoa and Ulti are completely different, but instead, it is used by people to say that they are the same. Why?

Hell, Seifer and Squall have the whole equal and opposite thing going to. They both wield gunblades, they both have scars across their face, going in opposite directions. OMG, they must be the same individual.

Ulti and Rinoa are about as different as two people can be. Why do people insist on using this as a reason to support the R=U theory?

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Well, Skyblade. I created different threads because each one has different purpose. I can see that sort of spamming but it's not like I'm spamming making new threads in every 10 minutes or so. Heck, I haven't posted in this forum for a while. So, why not grab a little opportunity and abuse it once in a while (every three months or so) ??

And as for your quote. There's no need to agrue against it, it's your interpretation.

To be honest, I'm really tired of defending R=U. It's going no where.

I'm really interested in the different interpretations of the dual nature of the characters though. A two-sided theme permeates VIII, and we can find comparisons popping up all through the game. The parallels between Laguna and Squall's relationships, the parallel natures of the sorceress, the double nature of SeeD (Balamb's SeeDs versus the white SeeDs). The duality of the two Gardens (Galbadia versus Balamb). And there is far more than just these.

Ffs man. Please stop.

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To be honest, I'm really tired of defending R=U. It's going no where.

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I thought that theory was dismissed years ago.

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Originally Posted by Darth Cid

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To be honest, I'm really tired of defending R=U. It's going no where.

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I thought that theory was dismissed years ago.

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No, it wasn't and still isn't. The simple reason why people disagree with the theory is because that it doesn't make sense, or that it's just not logical. If a theory cannot be proven to be false, then it cannot be proven to be true. But that logic contradicts the fact that this game has a lot of hints leading to R=U.

Why do people think that the U-Guide's statement (about life-span) automatically rejects the whole theory, not to mention thier interviews, e-mails or newspapers columns include no mention of rejecting or confirming the R=U theory.

Also, just because the number of R=/=U supporters outweighs the number of R=U supporters doesn't mean that the theory automatically becomes dismissed!

Well, so what if Rinoa is Ultimecia...what am I talking about if Rinoa is Ultimecia, she'd actually have something to be popular for in this game.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Y'know, while there is a clear theme of light versus darkness, this game is pretty much the only one I've seen where the imagery is used to say that both sides are the same.

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FF3 and its Dark Warriors to counteract the last millenium's Cloud of Light as your Light warriors take on the Cloud of Darkness an example of how it'd be if the symbolism were to say they were 'the same', and even then this is a different thing entirely.

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I mean, Rinoa and Ulti as we see them in the game are opposites in every way. From the imagery with the wings, to their goals (fighting to protect and be with loved ones to fighting to eradicate all others), to their personalities. Normally this would indicate that Rinoa and Ulti are completely different, but instead, it is used by people to say that they are the same. Why?

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Because people desperately want more backstory for Ulti and in certain cases want Rinoa to have the 'bad end'.

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Hell, Seifer and Squall have the whole equal and opposite thing going to. They both wield gunblades, they both have scars across their face, going in opposite directions. OMG, they must be the same individual.

Ulti and Rinoa are about as different as two people can be. Why do people insist on using this as a reason to support the R=U theory?

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Because they're working from a conclusion, not towards one.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Darth Cid

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To be honest, I'm really tired of defending R=U. It's going no where.

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I thought that theory was dismissed years ago.

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No, it wasn't and still isn't.

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Oh yes it was.

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The simple reason why people disagree with the theory is because that it doesn't make sense, or that it's just not logical.

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Hence why it is dismissed.

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If a theory cannot be proven to be false, then it cannot be proven to be true.

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That's not how it works... AT ALL. If a hypothesis cannot be supported empirically, it is disregrded. If it is falsified, it is dismissed or revised.

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But that logic contradicts the fact that this game has a lot of hints leading to R=U.

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No, it does not.

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Why do people think that the U-Guide's statement (about life-span) automatically rejects the whole theory,

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Because it makes the only for it to come about patently impossible.

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not to mention thier interviews, e-mails or newspapers columns include no mention of rejecting or confirming the R=U theory.

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Because they don't need to deny it, the same way they don't need to defy a Sephiroth/Barret relationship or explicitly affirm C/T in FF7.

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Also, just because the number of R=/=U supporters outweighs the number of R=U supporters doesn't mean that the theory automatically becomes dismissed!

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This is true, but entirely irrelevant. There are more R=U detractors than supporters because there is blatantly nothing TO the hypothesis.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wasn't Rinoa and Adel being sealed both plot points in the game :S I mean, Adel was sealed and shot into space and Rinoa was sealed and you have to rescue her. I don't understand why the phrase "Sealing whoever" changes anything o_O

LIKEWISE, FFVIII Ultimania says sorceresses have normal lifespans. R=U=Nope sir~~~~ Rinoa's dead and gone by Ulty's time.

editttttt: As for desperately seeking backstory for Ulty, I don't see why she needs more. Her speech at Galbadia about SeeDs being "lokusts" and whatnot pretty much shows that she's pissed at everyone for persecuting her. That's her whole shtick - the game makes a point time and time again of showing us that sorceresses are hunted: that's the point of SeeD. Ultimecia knows she's going to die by the hands of Squall and Co. (how could she not? It would be well known history in Ulty's time) so she tries to change things by compressing time. And fails. The end! Motive and backstory enough for moi~ I mean, I'd be pretty pissed if I was born and I knew I was destined to become an evil master mind destined to be killed.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Ulti and Rinoa are about as different as two people can be. Why do people insist on using this as a reason to support the R=U theory?

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THANK YOU! :D

Birds? More like AXES to me!! Those aren't birds! AXES!! :bigsmile: