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Without knowing the effects on the planet? They may not have known about the affects of detonating the huge materia, but they had a fairly good idea about the affects of Meteor. And anything is up from there.
And the fact that it blew half of meteor apart without the full payload is a definite reason to have tried it at full strength. Though the FMV is the same regardless, so we never get to know the true strength of the weapon.
You'll have to take that up with some guy from some other forum :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
I haven't played FF7 in a couple years, but the quote in my last post sounded good from what I could remember of the game.
Anyway, Shinra has a complete monopoly over the mako energy, and they use military force when people don't do what they want. Also, the Turks are responsible for kidnapping, espionage, and assassinations. Aren't those pretty bad?
I will troll this person's ass. ;)
The issue here is not whether Shin-Ra was bad or not, they are dicks who deserve what they got. The issue here, is that Shin-Ra, as the most powerful human force on the Planet is actually trying to use all their fancy technology and military power to stop Sephiroth and the party decides they need to be taken out, (and let's ignore the fact that Cloud and Co have been trying to ignore them up until this point, focusing more on Sephiroth until now) even though they are actually trying to save the planet for once (so they can go back to ruling it and sucking it dry of mako) but they are actually doing something whereas your party is basically twittling their little thumbs with nothing to do and decide Shin-Ra is just not up to any good, and they should stop them from trying to save the planet.
It's akin to if Kefka, instead of ruling the ruined world like a petty dictator, actually used his power to build a half decent world without the empire to deal with but your party decided he needs to be killed anyway. No one would deny that kefka wouldn't deserve it from his action in the world of balance but to have them actually do something good, even if they had more selfish motives, and then watch your party take them down for no good reason.
No one really stops to think that maybe Shin-Ra should be left to try their plan. Its not like the party had some true reason to save the Huge Materia, it would weaken the planet but it could have saved it too if it weren't for hindsight and the knowledge of a third disc. The issue here is that Cloud and Co. really had no reason to go after Shin-Ra at this point cause they were both fighting for the same result even if they had different motives, while I don't feel this means Cloud and Co. should be helping Shin-Ra, it just seems very counter intuitive for them to be hindering them at this point. If Meteor dropped, it doesn't matter if you saved the four Huge Materias, the Condors, or one trashy little city or two. Everyone would be dead, Cloud and Co. just lucked out to learn that Aerith set Holy in motion and thus their actions against Shin-Ra are seen as less stupid and more virtuous, but objectively speaking, they were foolish to try and stop Shin-Ra.
Can't argue with that.
Hats off to you, good sir.
This is pretty much the issue I have with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Besides, your party is the one who almost crashes the train into Corel (or sometimes does), I doubt Shinra would have done that.
And the guy at Fort Condor is a moron, not only does he have the Huge Materia on his person from the start, and just uses your party to fight the Shinra. But rather than give up the Huge Materia to the Shinra to make them go away, he'd rather horde it away from them without even knowing why.
Shinra are obviously bad, but I think in the second disk everyone just hates the Shinra for just being Shinra, regardless of what they're actually doing.
If we distinguish between intent and action, Shinra is generally malevolent (evil intent) and maleficent (evil actions), while the heroes are generally both benevolent and beneficent. There are times though where the heroes actions are maleficent however well intentioned.
This game argues that in a world ruled by an evil corporation that wields both millitary and polical power, the only way to stop them is through terrorism. We are meant to side with AVALANCHE by showing their sympathetic goals and also downplaying the collateral damage inflicted by their actions. The game tries hard to stack the deck in their favor, but it does bother me.
I'm guessing the scriptwriters had the ending confrontation already in mind and wrote backwards to get to that point.
There are a few NPCs early on that talk about the deaths of innocent civilians. Nobody seems to bat an eyelid. Oh cool, collateral damage. Means the bomb was big enough.
Oh wait then they tried to use a bigger bomb for No5...
There's never any problem with a bigger bomb, imho...
Depends on where you're standing.
It could be partly a matter of the boy who cried wolf. Shinra has done so many evil and despicable deeds that one of the few times they try to do something good, nobody buys it at face value, even if it seems objectively sensible. Most of the heroes have deep understandable grudges against Shinra that could easily lead to 'they're evil, so we have to oppose anything they do' rationale.
I think the only Huge Materia you can't possibly lose/are stuck with is the one from the Submarine battle. There's no way to lose this battle (I think). You can lose all of the other Huge Materia by being too slow and in the case of Fort Condor by allowing yourself to die at the hands of Commander Grand Horn (which isn't easy given the level you're at and you have to make sure you're not equipped with Counter materias).Quote:
Originally Posted by silentenigma
In any case, even if Shinra has the Huge Materia, given the fact that the FMV doesn't change to show more damage to the Meteor, obviously the Huge Materia is F-ing useless toward this goal. As for why Cloud thought it was so important to get it back... I guess they thought they could get better use out of it.
You can lose the one in the Shinra Rocket too, if I remember correctly. I know I screwed that up once or twice :p
You can lose all the huge materia.
Submarine: Fail the mission (who the f*** can't kill the submarine in 10 minutes!?)
Alternatively, you can just never go to the red submarine to pick it up.
Corel: Fail catching up to the train.
Fort Condor: Die in the fight vs CMD Grand Horn.
Rocket: Fail to find out the code within 3 minutes.
I wondered this last time I played through. Especially considering there weren't any negative consequences to letting the Shinra try their plans out. Obviously you'd miss out on the Master Materia and Bahamut Zero, but they're not absolutely necessary to finish the game. I was tempted to let them just get away with it, though as it'd have no bearing whatsoever on the story I didn't bother.
Naturally the public executions demonstrate that the Shinra aren't exactly whiter than white and they probably are motivated out of a desire to save themselves, though they are actually doing something at least.
You're right, I saved a duplicate file so I could do all of this. I had forgotten about theQuote:
Originally Posted by Karifean
secretloser way to acquire the Red Sub. You normally pilot the black No.2 Sub and can capture a crew total of 3. But if you allow yourself to lose the sub battle, you can get the Red Sub with a crew total of 6 plus a cute dog (if you decide to keep/capture them otherwise you just fight and kill the soldiers and maybe let the dog go.
In the Rocket, after you first approach the Device and Cid explains what it is, you don't even have to try to open it, you can just leave and go to the pod and no one will complain.
I didn't realize that if you won the Huge Materia with Cid, you actually had to collect it in order to go with the story. I won over at Fort Condor First and then went on to Corel, but when I went to visit Cloud... notta. No event. I went into the Highwind and Cid suggested going back to Fort Condor. I was a little annoyed.
i read somewhere that it' just a game and you don't need to pick holes in every plot line and just suspend your disbelief and enjoy it for what it is. however, this is just a rumour. i'll get back to you when i have more information.