Editorial: Lightning Returns to Sexy: Why SE Risks Destroying Lightning's Strengths

I don't take this nearly as hard as many people in this thread seem to. For one, they didn't seem to be too proud to announce it, more like a guilty pleasure. And I can't really fault someone for a guilty pleasure of theirs. Second, this doesn't mean they're going to oversexualize Lightning. I'll stand corrected if they do, but I doubt they will. They still know who Lightning is.

Saying they "made the conscious decision" makes it sound worse than it actually is IMO, because they probably didn't think it was such a big deal. Now if they had come out and proudly announced "LIGHTNING NOW HAS BIGGER BOOBS!" it would be a different story.

Actions speak louder than words.

When i first saw this, i did think it was a bit uncool, and does undermine Lightning as a character a little, but then i wondered if it was intended to be sort of a silly, one-shot sort of thing, being playful with a character that is not known to be very playful. It might be the same sort of thing if they had a costume that made Lightning chibi. It wouldn't be undermining her, really, if it was portrayed as so obviously out-of-character for her that it was laughable. A mild joke, like "hah! Look at how silly this is, Lightning would never be this way!" I'm just waiting to see if there will be more treating Lightning's character this way, or if this is just a one-time deal. I don't take it too seriously - yet, but if more things like this pop up, it will probably bug me more.

That said, am i the only one who doesn't care much about Lightning either way? She's a competent character, and a hero, but she's never been a character i particularly liked. Though i don't hate her at all, either. She's just kinda there. I'm hoping LR makes me feel like she has a bit more personality, that it gives me something to *like*. I want to like her, i just don't feel i know her very well, yet.

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Originally Posted by Karifean

Second, this doesn't mean they're going to oversexualize Lightning.

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http://home.eyesonff.com/attachments...ing-miqote.jpg

This does not look like Lightning. I realise that being sexy like this can be a sign of confidence, but come on; Lightning got a knife for her birthday. That doesn't scream "on weekends I dress up like a cat, meow." The rest of the game might portray her as usual, but these changes already undermine the good work Lightning has done.

As far I am concerned, I see two differents Lightnings, and I highly perfer the Lightning who is the strong independent beautiful woman rather than the oversexualized kitty hooker. I mean really, the Final Fantasy series had enough of those stereotypes already, and Lightning should not get on that bandwagon if you know what I'm saying. I understand SE is trying to make profits from every single game they make, but they need to stay true to Lightning's character and not to change anything on her that would make people misjudged her.

This may bring an uproar when I said this suggestion... due to possible sexism in LR and changes in Lightning's character by outfit changing to make her more sexy than she needs to be, should we boycott the game and argue about those points?

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Originally Posted by LadyJuxtaposition

As far I am concerned, I see two differents Lightnings, and I highly perfer the Lightning who is the strong independent beautiful woman rather than the oversexualized kitty hooker. I mean really, the Final Fantasy series had enough of those stereotypes already, and Lightning should not get on that bandwagon if you know what I'm saying. I understand SE is trying to make profits from every single game they make, but they need to stay true to Lightning's character and not to change anything on her that would make people misjudged her.

This may bring an uproar when I said this suggestion... due to possible sexism in LR and changes in Lightning's character by outfit changing to make her more sexy than she needs to be, should we boycott the game and argue about those points?

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If I saw anything even remotely like that from the game's standard material, perhaps. But I've seen nothing of the sort. That pose and outfit are taken from FFXIV. It may have been a poor choice, but that promotional tie-in does not seem to have influenced the rest of the game at all.

There are plenty of screenshots and promo vids out there now, and none of them show Lightning in any sort of overly sexualized pose or outfit.



And, while we're discussing the promotional outfits, I do admit that Cloud's is extremely in character for Lightning (which is hardly surprising, since Lightning was designed as a female Cloud), but I don't think Yuna's summoner garb is at all in character for Lightning, yet no one has complained about it either.

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Originally Posted by Freya

As of 2012, in a study by the ESA, 47% of gamers are now women. While many of these women are playing social games or puzzle games, they are actually playing them. Now if the industry would like to get more women playing AAA titles then they should probably stop enlarging breasts and adding jiggle affects just cause.

Honestly it's not a hard market to sell to if they'd just stop doing things like this sexualization of lightning.

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http://nivelzero.files.wordpress.com...2/kratos_3.jpg

Video games full of burly muscular shirtless men don't fail from men not wanting to play them, nor do tv shows and movies full of scantily clad ladies fail from women not wanting to see them.

Video games are just like any other medium. Most women (at least, most women I know) couldn't care less about this sort of thing, and won't let a sexy "objectified" woman keep them from taking in and enjoying said entertainment. The women who get bent over this stuff are a vocal minority that seem hellbent on focusing on video games as of late, for some reason.

None the less, this is a Japanese game we're talking about here, so any and all female outrage is pretty much a lost cause, seeing as Japan does not care about feminism or appeasing offended women.

Oh, and for all the people complaining that it looks "out of character"...it's an optional costume. That's like complaining how out of character the optional costumes in FFXIII-2 (such as the Ezio and Commander Shepard costumes) and in all the Resident Evil and Devil May Cry and God of War games are.

Well that's not true.

Quick story: I love mass effect. Woo! I went to the bioware forums, boo. ME3 beta for their multiplayer was coming out. I joined a group to have people to play with and most were females. I have about 20 some random female fans on my xbox live now. Most of them have stated in some form or another that they like the ME series because they are able to play a strong female character who isn't over sexualized and just as much of a badass as male shepard.

Now this isn't some vocal minority. These are just fans of a series. To say that women don't care about it and it's only the vocal minority is brushing off the issue.

Next story: I worked at gamestop for 2 years. Now this doesn't give me any credibility, the douchiest people can work there. I did interact with a lot of gamers though. Of the ones, women that is, I did talk to about it held similar opinions. Now they may still enjoy a game and play a game with a sexualized female character but I often heard the want for more games to have a badass who wasn't the typical "sexy".

Now that's my personal experiences. We, as females, still enjoy games with girls bouncing around with big tits. It's still a fun game. But when you go from a character who is independent and a badass and got a knife for a birthday kinda girl to then put them in random outfits (you do know one of the biggest features in LR is the ability to change her clothing colors and stuff! right?) and increase her breast size and give them jiggle affects just cause, that's when a problem arises.

The only way a change can and will be made in the industry is if crap like this gets the negative reaction. Statistically, it's not just men playing anymore. Just because "it's japan" doesn't mean it's then okay.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

And, while we're discussing the promotional outfits, I do admit that Cloud's is extremely in character for Lightning (which is hardly surprising, since Lightning was designed as a female Cloud), but I don't think Yuna's summoner garb is at all in character for Lightning, yet no one has complained about it either.

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Actually, several people pointed that out in the thread we had about it. It is out of character for Lightning and I won't ever use it myself, but I think it's less complaint-worthy for a number of reasons, mostly concerning the motivations for including it. First, it's simply utilizing the outfit of one of the most prominent FF females. It's not limiting Lightning to a sex object, but simply catering to fans of FFX. If SE's going to cater to a group of people for the DLC outfits in Lightning Returns, that's the way to go. The inclusion of the Miqo'te outfit and the use of that particular pose in the promotional material for it is indicative of other motivations.

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Originally Posted by DMKA

Video games are just like any other medium. Most women (at least, most women I know) couldn't care less about this sort of thing, and won't let a sexy "objectified" woman keep them from taking in and enjoying said entertainment. The women who get bent over this stuff are a vocal minority that seem hellbent on focusing on video games as of late, for some reason.

None the less, this is a Japanese game we're talking about here, so any and all female outrage is pretty much a lost cause, seeing as Japan does not care about feminism or appeasing offended women.

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This is pure male privilege talking. True, most people don't care, including a number of women. Just because most people, especially male gamers, are either too far removed from significant sexism issues are too indoctrinated in gender norms to bother thinking about the issue, does not mean it's not an issue worth discussion and criticism. The "vocal minority" is simply becoming more aware and outspoken about issues that have been around for decades, in video games and in all other aspects of our culture.

As for women not refusing to play games or enjoy other forms of entertainment with objectified women: that's true for the most part, but really, what's their alternative? And I never said that this was such a significant issue by itself that I would refuse to play the game over it; I'm just saying it's a reason for criticism. You seem to think it's all or nothing all of the time, and that women who still watch TV or play video games must not care at all or wouldn't prefer any sort of alternative.

And are you seriously asserting that the fact that Japanese companies, in your own words, generally don't care about feminism is a reason for less criticism over their demonstrations of sexism?

Why don't we care about sexualized men or men who portray an unrealistic body image for other men?

Not saying this isn't an issue about women having to put up with unrealistic portrayal of women (trust me, I have low self-esteem, I know it's there) but there are men who are sexualized and who have ridiculous amounts of muscles and that might make some male gamers feel insecure or uncomfortable too.

I would love to be able to punch boulders like Chris Redfield, but society also doesn't tell me that I need to be Chris Redfield in order to be a man. Kratos is crazy buff, and half naked, but I still think it's different: Kratos and Chris aren't trying to be sexy, they're trying to be cool. I don't know if that makes much of a difference - especially because they're still trying to appeal to male gamers - but I think "oversexualisation of men in video games" is far less of an issue.

You know how they say that art reflects real life? It's kind of appropriate here. You have Lightning, a character who is strong and confident and female. Instead of relying on that to shift copies of the game, Square Enix thinks that they need to add the ability for her to dress up in slutty clothes and increase her breast size. If you told a woman she needs to dress skimpy and get plastic surgery before she could get a job, that would be outrageous.

I know that it's all fiction and sure we can smurf around and play some stupid games once in a while, but as Raistlin has explored in the past, Final Fantasy has a history of being a sexist jackass. With Square Enix undermining one of the most positive steps forward in the series, I think it's fair to say that we have a problem.

I'm all for tits and ass but sometimes I want something serious and don't want to feel like it comes at the expense of a female's dignity, fictional or not.

EDIT: And yes, as much as I hate the rampant cross-overs, at least Cloud's outfit is appropriate for Lightning's personality. Yuna's outfit, the Miqo'te outfit and that purple dress which I have previously complained about are all out of character.

(There is the argument that just because she is strong and confident and an action girl doesn't mean she can't have a girly side; sure, but she's still being a smurfing action girl in the game and should be wearing at least half-way appropriate battle garb.)

Who's saying we don't? There are plenty of one-dimensional, stereotyped male characters and those used as just another muscle-bound hunk, and I would cheerfully point out where those are stupid too. But this issue certain disproportionately effects women, as a women's sex is regularly treated as relevant to any and all things she does (see here); a woman's objectification is more indicative of our culture's treatment of women in general. Men are indisputably privileged when it comes to sexual discrimination. While there are objectified men in various entertainment mediums, women are disproportionately affected by sexism in real life.

I'm not saying that men are never objectified; I'm just saying it's not as significant, and I'm not putting forth the effort to get up on my soapbox about it. Nor do I do so on the vast majority of other issues I have an opinion about.

But on the point of how privileged men are: what would you think of a white person who went into a thread criticizing certain forms of discrimination against black people in the US and said "white people are sometimes discriminated against too! Why aren't you protesting about that?" Why isn't that question treated just as silly and offensive in a discussion about sexist portrayals of women?

I guess I just *personally* think that we should care about sexualization and unrealistic portrails of peoples body's.

Not just men, not just women.

I don't think I was being offensive but hey take that however you want

Ok, how about this, then:

How is this any different from showing Samus in a bikini at the end of Metroid?

Not in character for her, over sexualization, and completely irrelevant to the majority of the game?

Granted, complaints about that have been going for ages, but it hardly destroyed Samus as a character. It took Other M to do that.

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Originally Posted by shion

I guess I just *personally* think that we should care about sexualization and unrealistic portrails of peoples body's.

Not just men, not just women.

I don't think I was being offensive but hey take that however you want

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I didn't intend to call you offensive, and I'm sorry you took it that way. But I do think it's a bit silly to insist that advocates against a minority's discrimination focus equally on the privileged majority who, while they may be impacted on some of the same issues, are not nearly as aggrieved by them. Especially in such cases as this one, because who is making the casting and directing choices that could be argued objectify male characters? Other men. If men were woken up to sexism issues generally, sexist portrayals of both sexes would be less of a problem.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Ok, how about this, then:

How is this any different from showing Samus in a bikini at the end of Metroid?

Not in character for her, over sexualization, and completely irrelevant to the majority of the game?

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It's not? That warranted criticism as well. Just because it didn't ruin Samus permanently doesn't mean it wasn't silly and unwarranted.