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I think Jenova has Sephiroth so brainwashed it doesn't really matter who's calling the shots, because even if Sephiroth is the one in power, he's doing more or less exactly what she wants him to. Even after Jenova is supposedly "defeated" (although it's not clear whether she actually is or not), there's no reason for all of her brainwashing of Sephiroth to come undone. He'd continue going for godhood without her help.
There is a theory that Sephiroth is the one behind the thing, but in a different way to how it's usually expressed. As far as I understand it, the Lifestream carries within it knowledge from all of those who have died and returned to the Lifestream right? While Sephiroth was floating in it for god knows how long (after Cloud hurls him into it at Nibelheim), he discovers information about the "Promised Land" and whatnot from Professor Gast and the Cetra, as well as anyone else who'd known about that stuff and had died.
Now, with the Jenova cells in his body (at a far higher extent than any other person alive), it's reasonable to assume that he'd have some kind of extra powers right? Say, imposing his will onto others impregnated with Jenova cells? By this method, he controls the clones. He sends one to ShinRa HQ and kills everyone there, as well as taking Jenova's body and dismembering it.
Now consider this; Jenova has been headless for what, 5-10 years? Even is Jenova wasn't really dead, being in pieces doesn't exactly suggest to me that Jenova is in full control of its senses, though I could well be wrong. I mean, alien physiology isn't exactly known to me =P But if it is the case, then Jenova can't really be controlling Sephiroth, so maybe it's the other way around? I mean, why would Jenova's final form fight the party before the real Sephiroth did, if it was controlling him? It doesn't really make sense to me at all.
As a note, Jenova wasn't exactly a disease. I mean, as far as I can tell, by what Ifalna says in the Icicle Inn interviews, Jenova is sentient, and do you know of any sentient viruses? But in another way, I think it is correct; Ifalna says that the Cetra were infected with a virus which mutated them into monsters; I believe this to be some variation of what was done to Sephiroth and others like him, or to be more exact, what Hojo did to Vincent, turning him into a mutant via Jenova cells.
The way I see it, Jenova was the real puppet in FFVII, Sephiroth was plain insane and Hojo knew full well what he was doing, right up until he OD'd on Jenova cells or whatever it is he takes in Midgar; if it is Jenova cells, then he could just as easily have become another puppet for Sephiroth.
So, the way I see it, Sephiroth was technically responsible for Aeris's death, making the clone that was carrying Jenova's dismembered corpse stick his sword through the flower girls back, but he's also out of this tree. Now, legal definition is that if you're out of your tree, you're not truly responsible for your actions, so Sephiroth isn't really to blame for Aeris' death. No one is really; it's just bum luck that she got skewered coz' of some psychopath.
In the terms of the game though, Hojo is the real badguy; everything he does until that final Midgar showdown was done in full clarity by him: killing Gast, injecting Lucrecia and thus Sephiroth with Jenova cells, mutating Vincent, creating monsters, SOLDIERs, experimenting on Aeris and Ifalna, and whatnot. It is because of these actions that Sephiroth loses his mind and all hell breaks loose. Sephiroth is just a victim of circumstance and after he loses his sanity, he's not responsible for what truly happens afterwards.
But mweh, I could be wrong =P
*reads the first couple of threads*
Ah, this again.
ANYWAY, there is no doubt in my mind that Jenova was the mastermind of everything. She manipulated Sephiroth, manipulated Cloud, and even, I believe, manipulated Shinra. Jenova was a alien of enormous power, especially combined with her cunning.
Here's my theory:
Jenova arrived at the planet some 2000 years ago. If you paid attention while playing, you'd know that Jenova beguiled the Cetra into thinking that she(Jenova) was a friend, and then spread a disease amongst them(the Cetra), killing off many, and eventually leading to the nigh extinction of the Cetra race.
Anyway, the few remaining Cetra banded together. They managed to encase her below the surface of the planet, hopefully trapping her forever. The Cetra also created the Weapons and such to help battle Jenova.
This is where the manipulation part starts. I believe Jenova, using her telepathic powers(mind projection, hallucinations, whatever), managed to lure Shinra to her location, where they dug her up. Jenova was physically too weak to escape on her own, so Shinra locked her up in a lab.
Back to facts: they studied her, and mistakenly took her for a Cetra. They did tests, and eventually produced Sephiroth(I'm not going into the history of Sephiroth; if you don't know it by now, you shouldn't be reading this). Sephiroth, growing up as a specimen and with his Jenova cells, was Jenova's perfect tool to secure her release.
On the Nibelheim Reaction mission(flashback, Kalm), Jenova sensed Sephiroth coming nearer to her. Using her connection to Sephiroth(Jenova cells), Jenova slowly worked away at lowering Sephiroth's mental barriers. Remember, when Cloud asks Sephiroth a question(it was something like, "So, does that mean you are like...these?"), Sephiroth, the most intelligent, cold-hearted human being, freaks out. I think that was Jenova.
However, Sephiroth wasn't stupid. He was also very powerful with the Jenova cells. He wouldn't submit to anyone willingly. Jenova lured him to the Shinra mansion(or he could have gone of his own volition; in this case, it doesn't matter), where he stumbled upon Hojo's notes. In his weakened mental state, he mistakenly concludes that Jenova is his mother(with possibly some mental prods in this direction by Jenova). This was what Jenova needed: someone to willingly work with her to help her escape. Jenova knew that Shinra thought she was a Cetra. Jenova used this: convincing Sephiroth completely that she was his mother, a Cetra, and that those heathenous humans were trying to steal the Planet from her. You probably realized that Sephiroth came up with the whole "you are traitors to the Cetra, stealing the Planet from Mother" thing practically overnight.
Hence, the burning of Nibelheim, and the release of Jenova. Jenova didn't mind-control him; Sephiroth whole-heartedly believed in what he was doing. He had gone insane.
This theory above answers a common question asked by those who think Sephiroth controlled Jenova: if Jenova was in charge, why didn't Sephiroth "wake up" once she was killed?
Anyway, more speculation:
There should be two questions on your mind after you've read the above(if you even read it): 1, why didn't Jenova leave after she escaped?, and 2, how does Meteor and Sephiroth's "plan" work into all of this?
1. Jenova didn't leave for two possible reasons: 1, she was still too weak, 2, she didn't want to, or both.
2. I believe that Jenova didn't want to leave. I think that Jenova wanted her revenge: on the Cetra, on the humans, on Shinra, on the Planet. Jenova discovered Meteor. As an alien, she probably couldn't use it herself, so she still had to hold on to Sephiroth. He was still useful. Using her manipulations(i.e., the entire first disk, and part of the second), she brought the Black materia to Sephiroth, who obediently summoned Meteor. But before he summoned Meteor, Sephiroth may have asked, "Why, mommy?" To which Jenova needed to answer, 'cause she still needed Sephiroth. So she said, "because then, if we wound the Planet, the Lifestream will gather, and we can harness the power and you can become a god and help take back this Planet from the traitors." Sephiroth accepted that theory, and so that's what he told you(Cloud) on various occasions.
But that wasn't Jenova's plan. No, she wanted the Planet destroyed. And that's what Meteor would have done: not merely wound the Planet, but destory it. Holy stopped it.
So there you go. My complete Jenova theory. If you read all that, I congratulate you, and you get a cookie.
Anyway, that was just my justification to the Jenova over Sephiroth theory. On the topic of this thread, there's three possibilities on what, exactly, killed Aeris:
1. Sephiroth clone- already been said in this thread(I think). This theory is supported, almost exclusively, by the fact that Dio(I think it was Dio) saw a number tatoo on his(disc 1 Sephy) hand.
2. Sephiroth projection: Sephiroth, using the power of his Jenova cells, projected an image of himself across the Planet. This theory is supported by the fact that Sephiroth often appears and disappears, walks through walls, floats, etc.
3. Jenova-in-disguise: probably the most likely of the three. Jenova, disguised as Sephiroth to manipulate Cloud(remember, Cloud didn't hate Jenova; Cloud hated Sephiroth), was the Sephiroth running around in disc 1. This theory is supported by those Jenova boss battles in disc 1, the fact that Sephiroth "killed" the clones in the Crater at the beginning of disc 2(which could have been Jenova reclaiming her cells, as the Reunion was intended for, and Cloud just saw what she wanted him to see), Sephiroth flying, etc.
Yeah. Long post. *gives everyone a cookie*
Could have sworn he claims that Jenova is his mother before ever setting foot in Nibelheim.Quote:
Originally posted by Raistlin
However, Sephiroth wasn't stupid. He was also very powerful with the Jenova cells. He wouldn't submit to anyone willingly. Jenova lured him to the Shinra mansion(or he could have gone of his own volition; in this case, it doesn't matter), where he stumbled upon Hojo's notes. In his weakened mental state, he mistakenly concludes that Jenova is his mother(with possibly some mental prods in this direction by Jenova).
I think I know what you're talking about. Cloud asks him about his parents(during the car ride, or maybe just when they arrived), and Sephiroth answers that he doesn't know who his father is, and that he only knows his mother was someone named Jenova. He didn't know who/what Jenova was.
So, yeah, I guess the theory could go another way: with Sephiroths "realization" that he's an alien and a freak of nature, he goes nuts on his own, and THEN Jenova latches on to him. But that's much less complicated and mine makes a better story.
