WOW my bro got it last night too. I'm like
"whatever"
I still have to finish the other two before it.
Ah, well. *reads The Lovely Bones*
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WOW my bro got it last night too. I'm like
"whatever"
I still have to finish the other two before it.
Ah, well. *reads The Lovely Bones*
I have corroborating evidence that I totally guessed (SPOILER)the doe being Snape's patronus, because he was in love with Lily.
I was tired by the time I was reading it, but I'm not sure of something. (SPOILER)How did Harry get control of the Elder Wand? Malfoy was its true master, but because Harry defeated Malfoy in the Room of Requirement, HE became its true master? Otherwise I can't figure out why it would have ever gone from Malfoy's ownership to Harry's.
Didn't like the (SPOILER)epilogue.
But an incredible experience to read, and truly an epic. This series will never go out of style. Odd, though, now, isn't it, to see it finished? I guess it hasn't sunk in yet that I will have no new plot to learn of, and no new pages to turn. Perhaps after I sleep it will have.
Freaking awesome, that's what it was.
THAT. WAS. AWESOME.
But....
(SPOILER)WHY DID FRED HAVE TO DIE? WHY? *sobs in corner*
I had a little more to read. I would have been done by now, but I slept for a few hours last night. This is freaking incredible so far.
yeah the book was awesome! im shocked to see some of you have finished it already lols!
BUT GUESS WHAT (AND IM LOOKING AT YOU DOOMIE) I WAS RIGHT
HA!
I finished it at 3 p.m. and I'm still sitting here spazzing. Oh man.
I got home with the book at 1:30-ish AM. I was done by 9:00 this morning. I read slower than I usually do as not to miss anything. One sitting for the win.
(SPOILER)I cried at least three times. Damn it! Dobby! Damn it! Fred! Awesome! Harry and Ginny get together! <3
Oh my god, I just finished it a bit ago. I usually read faster too, but I wanted to savor it so it took me until about 12:30 of last night until 12:30 today. 7-8 considering I was slipping for about 4-5 hours last night. It was PERFECT. Everything was just how I wanted it to be. The book kept making me cry every few chapters.
The sad: (SPOILER)Okay, I really liked Fred and Lupin and Tonks and Dobby and that all made me sad, but I was freaking DEVESTATED over Hedwig and I cried right after reading it. xD
Also, hearing all about Dumbledore's family life made me so sad. It's like... it kind of left a sour taste in your mouth, because you WANT to think of him as perfect, but like the theme in the book goes on, everyone has good and bad in them, and they need to choose.
The Love:
(SPOILER)I absolutely love how Snape tied in, and how they made him brave. I had a feeling every since OOTP that Snape had a thing for Lilly, but the whole of it still blew me away. The epilogue was a little cheesy, but I love Albus Severus' name and the meaning behind it.
I also love how Kreacher had some love. And I love how Neville is a professor, such a fitting end.
Also, "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH" = <3 forever.
Probably my favorite book of all time now.
I know, I felt horrible after reading that! It was awful...Quote:
Originally Posted by Rye
(SPOILER)im in love with snape and i cwyed when he died it was sad!
;_____;
For some reason unknown to myself, I was actually awake at 7:30 this morning, so I was able to do my usual "let's stroll into town and get a cheap copy somewhere without pre-ordering or losing sleep" trick. Morrisons opened at 8am and had it for £5. Can't complain.
(SPOILER)What surprised me most was that Harry himself was actually a Horcrux. I've heard that theory banded about a fair bit over the past two years or so and my impression was that people had generally dismissed it, given how difficult and inadvisable it is to make a living being a Horcrux. I did have a sneaking suspicion initially, but had actually not expected it in the book itself.
The Snape and Lily chapter towards the end was really quite nice, I thought. I think it really gave the reader a complete picture of Snape, finally settling over whether he was a villain or not. While I didn't expect something like that and was unsure what to make it of it initially, having thought about it I generally found it to be positive.
I read somewhere that someone thought the epilogue read like bad fanfiction and I'd really have to say that that appraisal isn't too far off in my opinion. I didn't like it it just didn't seem right to be honest. I was quite disappointed by the epilogue in all honesty. Perhaps it was a nice touch for some people, but I just found it to be a tad annoying and unnecessary.
One of my favourite bits were the scenes in the Ministry. I think that was nice firstly because it's always good to bring Umbridge in somewhere as well as showing the effects that the war was having on the general wizarding population. It's too easy sometimes to just show how an event changes the lives of the main characters showing only glimpses of how John and Joan Smith are dealing with the crisis that Britain is facing, whereas I think Rowling deliberately gave the 'general public' a lot of exposure to great effect.
What I did like about the book in particular was how some of the secondary and tertiary characters throughout the series were given more focus than before. Characters like Kreacher, Ollivander and Griphook in particular. I also got a laugh out of how frequently Dawlish was mentioned during the book. It was also quite nice that Rowling didn't shy away from a rather cliché 'but any characters that were named generally survived' result in the Battle of Hogwarts. The scenes at Hogwarts at the end were a rather fitting finale, I think. I'm unsure what I make of the chapter when Harry basically does what Ash did in the first Pokemon film, to be truthful. It was quite nice to have a link back to Dumbledore given how his image had been repeatedly tarnished through the book (which incidentally was another nice touch, I think).
Ultimately, the greatest tragedy of all was Dobby.
I generally enjoyed the book, I'm not quite sure how I'd compare it to the others, I guess I'll have to either re-read it or just generally think on it some more.
(SPOILER)Wasn't it because he expelliarmused him in the Malfoy mansion?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirobaito
Random thoughts!
(SPOILER)I didn't really like the beginning, with the escape from Privet Drive. Hedwig and Moody dead, George mutilated, and I thought Hagrid had snuffed it too. It was a bit "Holy smurf" to see characters I've known for years getting slaughtered.
I liked that Scrimgeour, despite being a full on twat, refused to sell Harry out even under torture. And hurray for Kreacher becoming a good guy!
Wasn't keen on the Harry and Hermione camping bonanza.
I had no idea Grindelwald even appeared in this book when I made my post about him in this thread, (obscure references ftw and all that) so I was kinda amused by the huge role he played, and by the fact that he was still alive.
Absolutely loved the Snape chapter. Even though before this book I, like everyone else, thought he would come good, after reading about him slicing George's ear off and such, and then his death with no heroic sacrifice, I was sure he was evil after all. Turns out I was wrong.
What in the whole of hell is with psycho powerful evil Crabbe?
Methinks Harry's christlike resurrection will piss off the Christian anti-witchraft movement even more...
Okay, so I have yet to read it, but this one girl posted a bulletin on myspace saying "OMG look at this" or something like that. I expected maybe a survey or that she has new pics or something, but no...a list of ALL THE THINGS IN THE BOOK THAT I WANTED TO KNOW MOST! Somehow I knew they were right, but to confirm, I asked a friend about (SPOILER)Mad Eye Moody's Death, one of the listed events, and she said that it did happen. THE GIRL EVEN LISTED WHAT PAGES THEY ALL HAPPENED ON!!!
I'm so mad at that girl now:mad2: :mad: :eep: :sweatdrop :nonono: :grumble: :irked: :yuck: :grr: :frust: :hot: :hot: :hot: :kaocry: :kaoangry: :kaofight: :kaofight:
(SPOILER) When JKR quotes the BIBLE in it? no wai man. And also she proved that it was good vs. evil just like everyone was saying all those years ago. You have good harry who refuses to be evil versus evil voldemort who refuses to be good! very black and white lolQuote:
Originally Posted by psychotic
I purchased it this evening. Sitting around page 360 now.
I can't say I'm very impressed with this installment of the series - thus far.
Got it at midnight, and I finished 10 minutes ago.
(SPOILER)I kind of wanted for Harry to don the title of headmaster of Hogwarts, but I knew he would much rather a quiet life, with his family. Seeing Harry become Death would of been kind of fun also. :p
I read it
I enjoyed it
I really haven't decided on whether I liked the actual turn out or not.
(SPOILER)For one thing it ended rather abruptly for me... yeah there was the "epilogue" but c'mon. So he kills voldy, they're all sitting around eating, he goes up the office to consult Dumble, then 19 years later? Sorry but that pretty much sucked to me. If she's gonna go the cheesy ending of having Harry live, at least give him is public make out session with Ginny after killing Voldy or something lol
honestly, that's the only thing that has urked me. I felt it was really well written and planned, how the tiny things from the early books made such a big difference. And then I further noticed all the tiny things have been in the movies, like the snitch being caught in his mouth.
Well planned out story, good writing, very easy read
THE JACKAL
Tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arc_Master_14
I got it but I have yet to even start reading it (resists urge to read spoilers). I'd better get to it...
I think you're being a bit naive about that. They don't care if it's a power struggle of good vs evil. Check out one of the ladies that's been rallying for years to get the books banned (in a Georgia town I think). She openly admits that she's not read them. She doesn't care if their contents have jack to do with good an evil. All she knows is "ZOMG TEH WTICHCRAFTZES!!! IT R TEH WERKZ OF SATAAN!!" These extremist types that rally against this are immune to logic and context.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
Well I just finished it after an absolutely marathon reading session (that started a little before it was actually release... PDF ftw). I thoroughly enjoyed it, though for a while I though the deus ex machina was laughable. At least JK's d.e.m. is always explained out in a less fantastical way.
I enjoyed so many of the loose ends getting tied up, and appreciated those "holy crap!" moments where you realize that something from a past book that you thought was just random color in the story... ends up being of serious importance.
Example:
(SPOILER)The diadem... which he'd just glossed over before when he was in the room for hiding things... but it was mentioned nonetheless... and the fact that it was there just makes you go :eek:
One of the things I had predicted came true. Props to JK though. Throughout the whole book I was expecting it to come true, but the shadow of doubt crept over me more and more as I read... then near the point where it was revealed I was almost sad that it wasn't true... until then it was revealed that it was.
Details below:
(SPOILER)Severus being a good guy. I was certain before. Dumbledore trusted him and I figured they'd planned ahead. There was a ton of evidence for this and it's such an alarming plot twist that the person you've loathed for so long would be a good guy... that it just had to happen.
When Harry was chilling with Sev's thoughts in the Pensieve, I cried so hard when Snape made his patronus and I knew it was him. I was actually doing well on the tears until the Epilogue where one of Harry's children was Albus Severus.
All in all a good conclusion to the series. (SPOILER)I'm glad the epilogue looked so far into the future so as to potentially curtail the temptation to continue the series. I think that would only tarnish it.
I just finished reading it.
It was ok. =/
And I hated the epilogue.
(SPOILER)Yes, the epilogue did suck a bit. It was very Epic Fanfictionny.
Snape should have had a headmaster portrait, even though he wasn't a Supah Headmastah. :D
I really want to know what happened to Krum, actually. Probably went off and played more quidditch.
It was good that she didn't make all the important characters survive, but I thought it was a bit contrived that Grawp fought off may full sized giants on his own. And noone seemed too upset about the awesomesauce Lupin and Tonks going. :confused:
Oh, and I actually really liked Scrimgeour. Even when he was being a twat, I thought he was a great character.
Finished reading it, it was amazing. :love:
But the epilogue... *sighs*
When I first read it on a spoiler page, I thought that there was no way that this is the real thing, it was just too lame. I was hoping to get more information on what happened after the end, not just to Harry and co but in the wizarding world as a whole.
i thought the epilog was ok! it could have been more informative but thats what you get with a happy ending!
I agree. There could've been more about the aftermath but I felt it was a rather touching and pretty good way to end it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnie
(SPOILER)Sorry, my memory's not too good, but when does she quote the Bible? Having said that, the entire book could be the Bible and I probably wouldn't realise it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
And now another random thought.
(SPOILER)A lot of people seem a bit miffed that Molly Weasley nailed Bellatrix instead of Neville, but to be honest I prefer it. I've always really liked the story of Gideon and Fabian Prewett, and until this book I had no idea they were her brothers, and when I read Harry getting Fabian's watch I smiled.
It just explains her character, why she is so overprotective and scared, having lost her brothers to the Death Eaters, and not being able to help them, and I imagine the injuries to Bill and George, and losing Fred will have only made it worse. By fighting Bellatrix and defending her family, it just completes the character.
Neville's character isn't based on regret over what happened to his parents, or a need for revenge. He just wants to live up to their name and be considered worthy by his Gran, and I'm sure you all noticed that he did.
I didn't mind that the epilogue was a happy end, I would be upset if it wasn't. :) The thing that bothers me is that it hardly tells us anything interesting. (SPOILER)So the main cast got married...who would have guessed that? :eek:
(SPOILER)Well Lupin was significant enough to be one of the spirits or whatever that walked with Harry as he faced his death. He was put on the same level as Harry's parents and Sirius.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrumpleberry
THE JACKEL
I enjoyed waiting to read this thread until after I had finished the book just as much as waiting to read the book without spoilers for so long. It was fun seeing who thought what and knowing they were right or wrong.
(SPOILER)Something I noticed was that the chapter The Last Horcrux was off. At the time there were two left. The tiara and Harry. We didn't know about either of them at the time. When I read the chapter title I kept going over the horcrux's in my mind thinking I had forgotten about one, but it just turns out the title itself was wrong
The ending (meaning last few chapters) was a complete let down to me. Especially that awful epilogue she put in. Otherwise, I enjoyed it but not nearly as much as the previous two books.
The problem with the epilogue wasn't that it was HAPPY. Gosh dammit, I wanted a happy ending to everything. But she could have written a happy ending that concluded the series without it being so lame.
Especially after [spoilers]Harry completely owned Voldemort like a badass.[/spoilers]
I just got the book yesterday! My grandpa waits in line for me every other year, bless his heart! I'm trying to stay off the internet for awhile to avoid spoilers, and I haven't read a single post in this thread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9(SPOILER)Well Lupin was significant enough to be one of the spirits or whatever that walked with Harry as he faced his death. He was put on the same level as Harry's parents and Sirius.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrumpleberry
THE JACKAL
(SPOILER)Yes, Harry thought Lupin was important and the spirit thingy happened, but he didn't really seem too upset that Lupin and Tonks were dead. Maybe he'd gotten used to people dying by then, though.
The gratitude I feel towards Rowling is that which could never be given justice through words alone. I find it hard to believe that the series ran for 10 years and in all that time i've been hooked. No other book in my small library can boast what Harry Potter can and now that it is al over I feel a dull ache where anticipation for the ending has been replaced with the saddening knowledge that there will be no more. I feel almost as if my last vestige of childhood left me the moment I tearfully closed that book.
I did surprisingly well until the (SPOILER)Heaven scene. This book tarnished Dumbledore's name when it began revealing that he wasn't the essence of purity and friendliness that has had been shown as for the first 6 books. After growing up with this notion having it taken away after he had died seemed a bit harsh of Rowling. Especially when it is revealed that he has long since sentenced Harry to death. So when he appeared to Harry as his confident, happy and warm-hearted self that we all know and love and explained that he had hoped beyond hope that Harry would indeed survive...Well, it brought me to tears. Of relief more than joy.
After that I was on the edge until the epilogue, managing to hold back even during the (SPOILER)very end of their childhood in the story, the last time we'd know Harry, Ron and Hermione as their young selves.
But I couldn't help but let loose a torrent of tears onto the book when all the meaning behind Harry (SPOILER)calling his child Albus severus Potter came crashing in.
(SPOILER) Some people thought the ending tacked on and pointless, but I, like some others, enjoy that it prevents any future sequels being made and reducing the quality of the series in everyone's memory.
The star that burns twice as bright, lasts half as long. It should stay that way.
I don't think I will even be more engaged in a series of books than I have been since 1997 with Harry Potter. I never thought I could be so euphoric and as torn at this thought, much as Rowling herself said. I only hope she knows how much she has touched the world.
I didn't really like the epilogue. I just liked that it was there. It takes steps to prevent HP from branching out too much.
I'm glad that (SPOILER)Dumbledore's reputation became slightly tarnished. The perfection was just unrealistic. It really started hurting me when I was having the same doubts as Harry, but I think it was for the better. You grow from your mistakes and it seems Dumbledore was no exception.
I don't see why Rowling wouldn't be able to write a sequel if she chose to, plenty could have happened in those 19 years.
Yes, I agree completely. It added a lot to his character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeargdribble
just finished it.
my eyes hurt.
well, i finished it about an hour ago. I hated the freaking (SPOILER)epilogue, and I actually expected Malfoy to thank Harry in some way shape or form. I would have just enjoyed the ending more without the epilogue. The epilogue should have told about all of the characters, not just the fact of Harry and Ginny, and Ron and Hermiones kids leaving off to Hogwarts. Although I was happy to see Neville become the Herbology proffessor.. The ending was perfect with the exception of that (SPOILER)I wanted to know whom the new Headmaster of Headmistress would be when I read the epilogue and now I am just sitting here in a reality that I will never know anymore about Harry Potter and that there will be no more books. I heard rumors of Rowling doing another series and I only hope it is just as catchy and interesting, but it will never be as great as Harry Potter. Thank you J.K. for the ten years of great and inspirational writings! Even though your writing were the best ever I have seen, I am so mad at you for [BIGSPOILER]killing one of my personal favorites, Dobby.[/BIGSPOILER] It is a great ending to an epic tale. Thank you alot!
I'd have to agree with you. I've always liked Molly Weasley despite the fact she can be irritatingly motherly but as you said it's quite clear why she's the way she is. The fact that Rowling did bother to take the time to give more depth to the character of her was a personal highlight of the book in my view. Given how much she's had to endure over the years, (SPOILER)such as losing her brothers, Ginny being posessed, Percy ditching the family, etc, etc I was glad she was able to blast one of the more prominent Death Eaters for good. Especially someone like Bellatrix who is essentially the complete opposite of Molly. Thinking about it, the Blacks in general seem like the opposite of the Weasleys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I've been reading the books since about 1996/7 too and it did seem incredibly weird to think I was buying the last Harry Potter book. I'm not an obsessive fan, the likes of which we've been treated to seeing on television, but I'm definitely a lover of the books. I'm not sure if I'll be as engaged again, however. While Rowling isn't the best writer amongst my limited library, she's definitely one of the best storytellers. And I'm glad that I was able to share in that story of Harry, if only as an observer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radje
Alright. So after finishing it last night and absorbing the whole thing, I've decided that I'm disappointed with the book.
And it wasn't just how things went down, it was the actual way the book was written. Incredibly jumpy, uneven, side plots that seemed clumsily attached, etc. I don't think the book flowed well, at all. It just seemed all over the place. Aside from the initial thrill early on in the book, I found large chunks of it to be slow and rather boring. It's gonna get better, it's gonna get better! I just kept telling myself that.
As for the actual plot, I thought it was just ok. It all just felt like it could have been executed better. Some of the stuff Rowling came up with, I thought "ohh...ok. I guess that makes sense" and other stuff just made me go, "wtf? Are you serious?" Like the whole thing with (SPOILER)Harry vs. Voldemort. Ok, so the killing curse didn't work why? And she launched into all this mumbo jumbo trying to explain why it hadn't worked, blah blah blah blood protection horcrux blah blah. It just seemed like she was stretching things to try and make everything fit and make at least SOME sense. Didn't work too well in my opinion.
As for the deaths. Very unhappy with the death of (SPOILER)Fred and Remus/Tonks. Not because they were my favorite characters or anything, but because their deaths seemed unnecessary and cruel. I can think of very few things as harsh as taking one twin away from the other, or taking both parents away from an baby. Rowling really had to kill both Remus and Tonks, making their newborn child parentless? Really? Pfft. I think that even the killing of Ginny, Ron, or Hermione would have been less heartbreaking than the idea of George being without Fred for the rest of his life. George was probably having suicidal thoughts at the end of book 7. Really, it was downright mean.
I liked all the stuff with Snape, it made sense and all of it fit together as I had hoped the rest of the book would fit together.
The Dumbledore stuff was alright.
The relationship between Harry, Ron and Hermione was alright too. Nothing fantastic there.
I fell in love with Neville, Luna, Mrs. Weasley in this book. Really really loved the actions they took.
Huuuuge let down with Harry+Ginny. Huge. (SPOILER)I really wanted Ginny to go out and kick ass and have Harry and Ginny fight side by side. But instead he tries and shoo her away and keep her hiding while everyone she loved was fighting? And all the stuff about Ginny being a very powerful witch never came into play. That sucks monkey balls as her love for Harry and her adept abilities should have garnered her a bigger role in the book than just being eye candy for Harry to think about and long for.
I think there should have been a bit more information about how the characters and the wizarding world pieced themselves back together in the end. I didn't like the 19 years later jump into the ooey gooey cheesy future.
I just thought that the book could have been so much better. Maybe my expectations were too high. But I mean, this was the end, there's no more HP after this. And she chose to end it this way. It's disappointing.
There are way too many smurfing plot devices that were terribly forced.
I didn't care for this book much.
They're all like that. Granted I haven't read this one or the one before (I have no intention), but she's not a great author and it shows. She caters to the people (millions) who are fans of the series, but really doesn't add anything to the fantasy genre. The books will be remembered for the sales numbers they were able to generate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
I was being sarcastic xDQuote:
Originally Posted by YeargdribbleI think you're being a bit naive about that. They don't care if it's a power struggle of good vs evil. Check out one of the ladies that's been rallying for years to get the books banned (in a Georgia town I think). She openly admits that she's not read them. She doesn't care if their contents have jack to do with good an evil. All she knows is "ZOMG TEH WTICHCRAFTZES!!! IT R TEH WERKZ OF SATAAN!!" These extremist types that rally against this are immune to logic and context.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
p 325, from matthew 6:21 on (SPOILER) dumbledore's mother/sister's graves. Out of context, but hey, it's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath(SPOILER)Sorry, my memory's not too good, but when does she quote the Bible? Having said that, the entire book could be the Bible and I probably wouldn't realise it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
(SPOILER)I was under the impression that the tiara and the cup both got burned by the fiendfyre or whateverQuote:
Originally Posted by theundeadhero
Dunno if this has been addressed before in this thread, but that was an error made by J.K. Rowling that was rectified in later editions of the book. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Doomie
(SPOILER)No, that was just the diadem. Hermione destroyed the cup with a basilisk fang.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
Maybe to the media and to those who were too old to be immersed into the series as only a young child could properly be. Those young children who have grown alongside Harry Potter will, in the main, remember the books as one of the greatest stories ever told. Whether or not the reader saw Rowling as a poor writer.Quote:
The books will be remembered for the sales numbers they were able to generate.
Oh she actually did? I thought they were waiting for some reason.
That's fine, but the fear is that these kids will not read books after they're done with the HP series. I hope the HP series is a gateway to get these kids reading other, in my opinion, better literature. I somehow doubt it, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radje
The movie better be damn good for this one.
Loved the book.
Can't believe (SPOILER)Dobby died. Loved that guy. :(
you don't remember the (SPOILER) part when ron said 'thought it was fitting she did it, since we'd both had a go' or something to that effect?Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
It was an enjoyable book, not the best book I've ever written by any stretch of the imagination, but it feels good to have completed the series.
The middle parts were more tedious, but the finale was fairly nice.
I can understand Miriel's complaint about how all the stuff went down as it did, but I'm not terribly surprised. I've had trouble taking the Harry Potter universe's magic seriously, being a fan of fantasy books based on the D&D universes I'm used to well-defined magic system with a myriad of spells that I know the precise effect of.
While Harry Potter has many spells we know what they do, it still has a lot of, for lack of a better term, "really weird crap" that is never explained. I don't think the convolution didn't work so much as I came in knowing that explanation made sense in Rowling's head but will forever be beyond the rest of us unless she writes down exactly how her magic system works in intricate detail.
I didn't mind the epilogue, I don't know why you're all so upset about it. It could have said more, but it was a nice little conclusion piece to wrap it up and it worked.
I enjoyed the book, overall.
yah gotta rember that its pure evil everyone was dealing with. some people had to die. there deaths helped the motivation and i think that if they didnt die it would have been a big let down if not
Ah, right, on the deaths. I thought they seemed fairly extraneous. As I've been saying, it seems like JKR had a dart board and threw a few darts to see who else to kill off for dramatic effect.
and also she was writing a war, and a war is cruel and does not care about who dies, the nature in which they die, or what circumstance their dying leaves the living in afterward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnie
as for the dartboard thing...i pictured her more rolling dice to see who died in the war, it's as good a method as any with such an event.
Well, here's my take. Everything is under a spoiler. (SPOILER)
The Ugly:
-- The complete lack of Snape in this book wounds me. I am dead serious. Snape is Rowling's best character. His drives, his inner conflict, everything about Snape is flawlessly crafted. She took that, threw it out the window and gave him a little chapter to explain. There was no unraveling his mystery, there was no pause for his death, and there was absolutely, positively no smurfing redemption. Snape deserved Harry's forgiveness, but I don't feel he actually got it. And his death was so cheap.
-- Speaking of cheap-shot deaths, FRED? TONKS AND LUPIN? No. The deaths weren't necessary. We didn't learn anything from them, and we weren't even given the chance to grieve them. We were just propelled onward without pause. I don't have to have a happy ending, but I demand something real. We grieved for Sirius, we grieved for Dumbledore, but we were given no shot at grieving for some of the most important and best written of her characters.
-- The Epilogue. WTF. I honestly expected something out of the movies, one of those things where they just give us bullet points on what the characters did with their lives. That's all I wanted. I didn't want something so childish and out of place. I hadn't heard anything about the epiloge before I read it, but my instant reaction to it was that it read like really, really bad fanfiction.
The Bad:
-- I felt like the Deathly Hallows were more of an afterthought than anything really important. The discovery of the story, and the talk with Xenophilius Lovegood was very interesting, and I felt gave us an interesting view into wizarding culture. But they just ended up not meaning a whole lot.
-- I don't like the fact that all the good guys were using illegal curses and no one was bothered. I understand that many times they were in between a rock and a hard place, but there was no question of regret that they would have to go against their morals in order to do this.
-- I didn't like the fact that Dumbledore had planned out EVERYTHING for Snape. I felt like some things would have made more sense had Snape worked them out for himself.
-- Percy just jumps back into the family at the end? Nah. He should've shown up at the wedding.
The Good:
-- Albus Dumbledore's story was brilliant. I feel as if it could've been better if we had been able to pick up some of the truths about him in some of the other books. I like how human Rowling made him. He wasn't a marty stu anymore. Knowing a character's pain makes them relatable. He was a weak person, he fell to temptation on at least one occasion, and he manipulated the people he cared about. But he was never, ever a bad guy. He was a good guy with problems.
-- Hogwarts as the final battle was the right move, I think. I don't think it would have meant as much to me if it had been elsewhere.
-- Xenophilius Lovegood was pretty wonderful, I thought.
-- The invasion of the Ministry was very well done. I thought all three kids shined there.
The Beautiful:
-- Ron and Hermione's relationship was the best part of this book, I think. It tore my guts up when they treated each other poorly as a result of the horcrux, and I died when Ron left. I thought it was very real.
-- Neville! There should have been much more Neville (and more Luna, for that matter), but his actions were very exceptional, I felt. I especially enjoyed that he was able to produce Godric Gryffindor's sword. In my eyes, Neville has always been the embodiment of what it meant to be a Gryffindor.
-- All of the cultural references, from wandlore to wizarding racism were written excellently. I especially liked Griphook.
-- Harry's revelation in limbo was very moving to me. Dumbledore's honesty and shame, Harry's awareness of self and his completeness as a person, coming full circle as a wizard were very well crafted.
-- The final showdown with Voldemort was good. I especially liked that the characters were so true until the end. Harry never took a killing swipe at Voldemort, he just disarmed him. Voldemort brought about his own end. I do wonder what they did with the body.
-- Dudley shaking Harry's hand. Even though he was spoiled, slightly stupid, and violent, he understood more than most how truly important Harry was, not because he was the Boy Who Lived, but because he was a brave human being. I was very touched by that.
Overall, I wasn't terribly impressed with the book. I did like the ending (not the epilogue), and I felt everything up til Malfoy Manor was beautifully done. It was captivating, engaging and very moving. I kept mentioning to my boyfriend that the book really tore me up inside as I read the first half in the wee hours of Saturday morning. I took a break for Saturday to celebrate my birthday, and polished the book off this morning. It may have been the speed at which I was reading, or perhaps the fact that I took a break, but I sincerely felt like I read two completely different books by different authors. The beginning to the escape from Malfoy Manor was excellent. Everything after that kind of fell apart. The pacing was bad, the characters stopped making sense, and I started losing my connection to so many of them not because they behaved out of character, but because we never got to see their reactions. I think Rowling made a mistake in going forward with this book. I saw at least another year of editing, re-writing and re-thinking when I finished it. I don't hurt that it's over, though. I am happy that they've made their world safe; I'm happy that they finally get to live in peace.
EDIT: Oh! I remember reading something about JKR saying at least ONE of the deaths was something she didn't plan for, and was actually surprised by, but she wouldn't say who. Who do you think it was?
(SPOILER)In a way, I think the fact that we weren't given time to grieve added to the drama of the whole battle. There wasn't time to grieve because the war was still going around them and they simply weren't given the opportunity to at the time. I do think it would've been better if there'd at least been some grieving for them afterwards, but I can see it was left out. Given that You-Know-Who being dead is certainly a cause for celebration. We were given a glimpse of the Weasley's grieving though, weren't we? I seem to remember them all gathered around Fred's body towards te end, though I might be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
As for the death she didn't plan on, for some reason I think that might've been either Tonks or Dobby. While I certainly thought Lupin would die, I was honestly really surprised when we learnt of Tonks' death, likewise with Dobby. I don't really have any reasoning apart from my own personal gut instinct, but I imagine people will find seventy million reasons why I'm probably wrong.
(SPOILER)I honestly think it was Remus and Tonks. Come on, their deaths didn't really have any impact on the story I just think she wanted to create another orphan in which sometime in the future will do something bad like Voldy did, maybe he inherited some of Remus werewolf and he turns into another Greyback.Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
Anyway, I kinda agree the book at first was really decent, then in the middle I was confused a little and caught myself reading several pages over 2 or 3 times to try to understand but simply moved on and then the ending was spectacular but then the epilogue screwed it up. I will in a couple of weeks, when I begin to miss the Potter series, and have time off work, to re-read it again slowly, take some side notes and try to understand it better. Like I stated before, I read rumors that J.K. was going to write another series. Oh, I wish that she wouldn't have rushed everything. I also saw on G4's the feed on TV just moments ago said something about rowling was releasing another book about snape this weekend. Im not sure what thats about because I didn't catch it all, but anyone know what that's about. Anyway, I do agree that more time should have been put into this book. I mean come on, she wrote it, published and did the whole ten yards in like a year and a half. I am sad that this is the end of Harry, but all I can hope now is that they don't smurf up the final two movies.
(SPOILER)Yeah this was a big issue for me too, actually. I was a bit miffed that Harry went around idly performing the Imperius and Cruciatus curses. He's tried to use the Cruciatus curse before, but in those circumstances it was understandable...I don't get why he had to use it on the Carrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
Can someone explain to me why (SPOILER)Harry came back to life or whatever?
because he's (SPOILER) jesus...duh?
Yes, it bothered me a bit too. I was really quite surprised to see people just using them. I suppose I can understand it in (SPOILER)Gringotts, because they absolutely had no choice in the matter, but it did strike me when I was reading it. I don't think there was a reason to use it on Carrow. Not a dead certain reason anyway. Perhaps it was just to get back at Carrow for being part of Voldemort's control of Hogwarts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic(SPOILER)Yeah this was a big issue for me too, actually. I was a bit miffed that Harry went around idly performing the Imperius and Cruciatus curses. He's tried to use the Cruciatus curse before, but in those circumstances it was understandable...I don't get why he had to use it on the Carrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
Yeah, that was fairly contrived.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magus of Zeal
(SPOILER)Voldie's killing curse destroyed the part of his own soul within Harry, destroying horcrux #7.
Voldie took some of Harry's blood in GoF, tethering Harry to life through Voldie, so he has the option to let go or return.
As Harry no longer has Voldie's soul in him, if Voldie was killed he would no longer be tethered to life through Harry.
I think I got that right.
yeah you got it right....just as it was written in the ruddy book
Foa I think it was (SPOILER)Dobby. She probably hit on him as one of those 'omg' moments and thought it was too perfect to pass up. At least, I could see myself doing that xD
I'm only on Page 200. :/ I feel like a slow reader compared to the rest of you...
As soon as I finish I am going to devour this thread.
(SPOILER)I actually feel it was tonks. Dobby was there to show the goblin guy, whatever his name, that harry was a different wizard so that he would help harry break into gringott's. Lupin died to walk with Harry to sacrifice himself. Tonks seemed like the most random death, but in the end I think they did that because Harry was their kids godfather, so it'd be like Harry became like Sirius was to the kid. That's how I saw it, because at one point Harry thought to himself he'd be like another Sirius for the kid, and when both Lupin and Tonks died, he really was like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
as for why harry lived, well from what Dumbledore was saying was that part of it was because he embraced death
and to whoever asked how the killing curse backfired on Voldermort, he was using the Elder wand, the wand that Harry was the master of. Because Harry was the master of it, he could not lose a duel in which the wand was being used, so the wand could not kill harry, and backfired to kill Voldermort.
correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that's correct
THE JACKEL
Ok...that makes some sense as to why he came back...o_O
I think the unpredicted death was (SPOILER)Hedwig. C'mon guys, did anyone really see that one coming? I sure didn't. Also, I think it really sucks that (SPOILER)not only were we not given any chance to grieve for Remus and Tonks, but they weren't even given on-screen deaths. They were alive, fighting, and then oh look they're lying over there dead. I thought Remus and Tonks were both lovely characters, and they deserved better than what Rowling gave them. In fact, NONE of the human deaths were given the same consideration as Dobby's death, which I think was done rather beautifully. I cried while Harry dug the grave, consumed with grief, and Luna's eulogy during his funeral. It was thoughtful and sad, and well executed. Wtf happened with everyone else? Bam bam bam, dead dead dead. And then barely a sentence or two concerning those deaths.
foa, I agree with like, 98% of what you wrote.
Those that know how incredibly critical I can be of things (those from the FFXI forum mostly) may find this odd of me. I know it wasn't perfect, but I think we're being too hard on the book because we waited around 2 years for it and our expectations were running high. Everyone has guessed and re-guessed what they expected to happen. Obviously it's not going to come out great for everyone.
I can understand the criticisms, but I think the objects of them can be fairly explained. Sure she didn't go into detail about the deaths of (SPOILER)Tonks, Lupin or Fred, but war is nasty. Why do you expect them to be special simply because they are characters that are more fleshed out. A lot of people died on both sides we never heard about. It's unrealistic to think that everyone we'd grown to love was simply above death. If anything, I think it highlights the savagery and mindlessness of war. Nothing is sacred.
Perhaps we should look at the book for what it was rather than what it wasn't. It was a well thought out finale to a great series. It tied up virtually all loose ends. While being somewhat predictable, it threw in extra plot elements we didn't see coming before starting the book so that it stands on its own within the series and isn't just a quick mop up.
Sure there could've been more detail in any number of areas, but there also could've been far less. Some of us wanted to see more romance and some wanted to see more action. While action probably outweighs romance, I think they were both given in portions that would give each reader a taste of what they wanted without tainting the balance of what the books were about.
So I, my ever-critical-self, am quite satisfied.
(SPOILER)The more I think about it, the more okay I'm getting. My biggest gripe is that while we understand time passes for the characters and they are allowed to heal from the deaths, we the readers don't get that kind of catharsis. At the very least, I expected some sort of memorial or speech, but there wasn't anything of the sort. The characters were taken care of, but I wasn't.
And honestly, I believe the death of Hedwig and Mad-Eye were enough to demonstrate the shock of the war. I was something like a half hour in, had to close the book and take a walk around the apartment, Mad Eye's death got me so hard. I felt like JKR cared about those deaths. I didn't feel that way about Fred, Tonks and Lupin.
And poor Tonks' mom! (Don't have my copy, can't remember her name.) Lost most of her family.
To add to my first post, I thought the entire Shell Cottage chapter was very well done, and I really loved Aberforth.
There's nothing wrong with being critical of a book, especially if there's a lot to be critical about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeargdribble
And you're right about war being nasty and all that, but once the war was over, why not end things properly? Give a little insight into how the characters and the wizarding world as a whole dealt with the aftermath of everything. I don't think that all the loose ends were tied up properly, and given that this was the END of the series, and there would be no follow up, I think Rowling could have done a much better job of finishing up the series.
I personally (SPOILER)can't imagine George living his life properly after losing Fred. Maybe that's why Rowling didn't mention anything more about what happened with the loss of Fred, since I'm sure it would have been immeasurable how much pain George went through afterwards. They're twins! Omg, you can't split up twins. And that kind of grief probably wouldn't have tied in well with her uber sugar sweet ending. Oh man, Fred dying seriously depresses me. :( :( :(
Edit: I'd also like to mention that I greatly disliked Order of the Pheonix when I first read it cause there was just TOO MUCH whiny Harry in it. With more readings and a bit of skimming over the parts I don't like, the book has really grown on me and there are bits of it that I really really love. Hopefully with a couple more readings of Deathly Hallows, the same thing will happen. It'll grow on me. And I'll just imagine in my head a better epilogue for the series.
I liked the book about as much as I liked the other ones: which is to say, an inexplicable amount. I can't pin down why the books are compelling, or what I really like about them (Have some theories, but those are for another time), but I do like them a fair amount.
(SPOILER)I think the main problem I had here was the complete break with the previous six books. Those had been matters of increasing training and importance for Harry, but they all took place at Hogwarts, a familiar setting I had grown to be quite fond of. Whilst the return to Hogwarts at the end of this was rewarding indeed, the absense of even a parallel for the characters while they were on the run was... jarring, I suppose. That said, it made sense and it fit. I'm not sure whether this complaint is legit, or just an unreasonable attachment to something which wouldn't have made much sense here.
(SPOILER)I can see what you're saying, but... I really, really loved the way Rowling did for Remus and Tonks, and that's saying it despite the fact that they were probably my two fave characters. I didn't blink at Hedwig or Mad-Eye dying. I barely noticed when Fred died. I didn't even care much when Snape died, and I am so totally gay and Slytherin for Snape.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
The fact that they deserved better is the very point. They were brave, good people, with a newborn child, and they fought for a better world for that child. And then they died, ignominiously and offscreen, and got the briefest of mentions. I mentioned other people above; I did care when Tonks and Lupin died, and it hit me like a slug from a magnum exactly because it was so.. inglorious. And yet in that ignominy, it was beautiful and noble and they didn't need to die in some heroic chapter-long showdown for their deaths to be noble and heroic and painful. I am reminded of a quote from Babylon 5 (Paraphrased from the Bible): "No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother. Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame. For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see."
I do, however, think there was far too little time overall spent on dealing with the dead and the consequences of who died. I mean, I totally forgot Hedwig had died within a couple of chapters, except for like the single comment later on where someone makes a faux pas about her.
(SPOILER)Andromeda. Yeah, she lost her husband, sister (Bellatrix), daughter and son-in-law. But at least her other sister's family (Malfoys) and her grandson survived, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalon
Yes, I have been looking at the Most Noble and Ancient House of Black family tree on wikipedia!
I suppose one can't really be too critical of a book (in terms of writing prowess and the like) that was aimed to be something of a children's story, but meh...
It seemed so much better when the first four had come out. Perhaps with age, my interest - and perhaps leniency of forced plot devices - dwindled.
I wish that the battles were more unique though. They seemed to follow a pattern, and it became a little bland after a bit.
I'll now read Lord of the Rings and feel oh so much better.
this right here is a point I'd like to emphasizeQuote:
Originally Posted by Nominus Experse
I was talking to my brother, who is a writer, about the books. And he was talking about all these things to make the story deeper and crap and I was like, bro, that's not the point of these books. They're purely simple reading entertainment. Nothing too complex to figure out. Anyone who tries to put this on the level of brilliance as Lord of the Rings, or book series like Ender's Game, is just kidding themself. Harry Potter is a good story in it's own right, but you have to remember what it is.
It's like people that go to see, Live Free or Die Hard for a great storyline. No, you go to see crap get blown up and all sorts of crap like that. You go see 300 for brutal killing and war scenes. Movies and books have purposes. Trying to say Harry Potter is suppose to be as complex a novel as things like Lord of the Rings or other great works of writing, is honestly, giving it too much credit.
That's just my 2 cents
THE JACKEL
Did you even read what I wrote above that statement?
I can't imagine how Deathly Hallows can in any way be considered a kid's book.
It did seem like it was rather... ambivalent. It felt like it couldn't decide who or what it wished to appeal to.
Little kids likely won't enjoy it, and teenagers will wonder at certain points, and then there's us adults, who, well, can think or want anything I suppose.
yes and I was agreeing with you....Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominus Experse
THE JACKEL
Oh...
Someone punch me. I see it now.
Are we all reading the same books? Do y'all have any idea the depth Rowling goes to make her connections. Very nearly every word is important in these books, in order to get a complete grasp on the characters. A good friend of mine uses reference material to research these books thoroughly.
I'm not saying the books aren't targeted to children or aren't meant to be escapist entertainment. The wonderful, and powerful, thing about them is the fact that they work on multiple levels to touch many different audiences. Themes like love, self-reliance and friendship are very obvious, and are more for children. The other themes in the novels, especially the latest; acceptance of death, racism, redemption, inner conflict, openness, honesty, shame, are things that are difficult for most adults to read about, because they speak to us on a personal level.
So yes, they are escapist. But they're not meaningless.
I just finished it and I have to say that it had a most fitting ending.
(SPOILER)I liked how when Harry conversed with Dumbledore in his mind, it was reminiscent of how he'd always have those conversations with Dumbledore at the end of the books, with the exception of Half-Blood Prince.
As far as the epilogue goes, I liked the way it went. I know most fans wanted to know how the wizarding world faired afterwords, yet at the same time epilogues by nature tend to be quite short. The jump was nice revealing the obvious but at the same time it showed a bit more into the characters. Specifically the fact that Harry was able to finally understand Snape. I mean he named his youngest son after both Dumbledore and Snape, referring to the latter as a brave man. I did think it kinda creepy how Harry named two of his kids after his parents, then again I am named after my dad and granddad. (-__-;)
I think the way the sudden deaths of Tonks, Lupin and Fred were handled was proper. Harry had been too shocked by Fred's and pointedly avoided it; whilst when he discovered the other two dead, he had to move on, thus the story went the same way following Harry who had little time at the moment to mourn them. I am sure Rowling could have written extensively upon the matter if she wished, yet authors do not have that luxury with many constraints.
As far as comparing Harry Potter with say LotR and Tolkein's universe, I think that is unfair. Comparing most fantasy works to Tolkein's is decidedly unfair. Tolkein's work is vast and unparallelled in depth, while most fantasy series are limited to a handful of books. I do appreciate Rowling's ability to make the most obscure reference become of importance later on. She has quite the knack for it.
Overall, my feelings for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows are undecided, yet positive. I am not sure if it my most favourite book in the series but I'd have to say that it brings great completion to the series. For me, Harry Potter was started as a children's novel series and eventually grew into something more, something both children and adults can appreciate. It reminds me of how my roommate mentions that in Walt Disney movies, though made for kids, there are at times jokes that an older audience would get or notice. (Like in the Cars' commercial with the reference to the 60's, most kids watching the movie would not get it, though their older counterparts would).
Yes it's awful. But does the fact that it's a horrible thing make it a bad choice? War is not picky about casualties. I'm sure this has happened before in real life. Cant really blame the writer in that case. Maybe the fact that's so gut wrenching for you is actually a positive aspect of the writing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
As to the comparison of HP to Tolkien works... HP is not the most incredible literary stuff out there. There is surprisingly little left to the imagination. You don't have to go too far to make connections. It's filled with deus ex machina that is usually then explained away. However, I think it's just great. It's escapist reading at its best in my opinion. You don't have to go out of your way to enjoy it. It's absolutely enthralling quite often. I found myself on the edge of my seat with excitement trying to keep myself from skimming at times because I wanted to know what happened.
Tolkien's style is different. I'd say in general it lacks that by far. Perhaps I'm burnt out on it. It's also easy to look back at Tolkien's universe and think of it as vast compared to JK's, but that's a bit unfair (more on that later). You damn near have to study Tolkien and read his works continuously and in different orders to really put it all together. LOTR makes less sense without having read the Silmarillion and vice versa. You'd have to read each separately multiple times to really drink it in and then there's such a cast of characters that you could almost never remember them all in the early history of Middle-Earth. Tolkien is quite immersive and that's great, but I'd almost say it doesn't work as escapist literature unless you wanna get downright scholarly about reading it.
The universe of HP may not be finished. Whether JK writes any more books directly related to HP, she has left huge avenues to fill in on subjects like wandlore. Perhaps one day we'll look back on her works the way we look at Tolkien's universe. Perhaps they will be equally vast and deep (though I doubt it). I think perhaps she has deeper ideas for the world of HP than all we've seen in the books.
NOTE: I'm aware of the disputed nature of the Silmarillion among some Tolkien fans, but it is relevant to the backbone of the Tolkien universe.
You keep talking about the realities of war, but the reality is that it's a book. Written by a writer. And that writer has complete control of everything that happens in that book. Rowling chose who she wanted to kill. She could have killed anyone. But she chose, very specifically the people who were going to die. She made the choice. I disagree with the choices, so of course I can blame the writer. Who else is there to blame? I think it was a not cool choice. That's all.
I think the choices were right because many people care. (SPOILER)I mean, how many of you cared about the other deaths, like the teacher in the first chapter for example, or that Colin guy? I think the reactions we are seeing are the ones Rowling was aiming to get.
And about (SPOILER)the heroes using the Unforgivables, Lupin addressed that early on when be berated Harry for using Expeliarmus. They are at war.
Be that as it may, I believe that Rowling chose to make the book to reflect upon the realities of war because it was a war that was going on. I think it would've detracted from the flow of the battles themselves as well as the the life-or-death scenario that the duelists found themselves in. It would've been nice to grieve, but I think in terms of good reading it was better that we didn't. The conflict had been built up over the books as becoming more prominent and closer to home until it finally did hit home in the final books and so I think, given the trend, I think it was best treated that way. Besides, I don't think Rowling genuinely got any particular pleasure in killing off some of the characters she's built up, she just made the choices that she had to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
If she only killed people we didn't know or didn't care about, such as in Zante's example... it would be a pretty shallow book in my opinion. The casualties can't be only nameless and faceless. The fact that you're so worked up over that particular person's death probably says more in her favor than not. She hit a nerve and was evocative. I think that's a good thing and I doubt I'm alone.
I would not have cried had some random (SPOILER)house elf from the kitchen of Hogwarts had died. But I did cry when Dobby died. It was a blow, because I'd grown fond of him.
I never said that only side characters we don't care about should die. To be quite honest, (SPOILER)if ANY of the other Weasley's besides the twins had did, I would've been happier with how it all went down. And believe me, I love the whole Weasley clan. Even when it looked like Harry might bite it (and I cried at that part btw), I thought "ok, well that makes sense." If she wanted it to be completely realistic, she would have knocked out one of the Trio instead of having all three of them survive Voldy attacks again and again and again and then going on to have a bunch of kids.
I don't really see how this is a point that can be argued. It's not like anyone is arguing facts here. Some people are happy with the book, others are not quite so satisfied, still others hate the book. Whatev.
Also, I do think that this book will make for an excellent film. Moreso than any of the previous books.
Also also, Some of the icons people have been making for the 7th book are hilaaaaaarious. There sure are a lot of chuckles to be had in this book. IT IS I, REMUS JOHN LUPIN!! That's some crazy funny stuff right there.
Oh and one other thing. People have been saying that (SPOILER)Ginny was offering sex as Harry's birthday present. Wtf, is that the impression you people got? I just thought that the kiss was the present, but apparently, a lot of people think otherwise. Dunno, the scene didn't come off as "hey birthday boy, you wanna do it?" to me.
I agree with you about the present... I didn't read any more into it. I'm shocked to hear that anyone did. If that had been the case... I think more precaution may have been made... locking the door and such.
I also think Lupin was hilarious every time he showed up somewhere with that whole spiel of his.
As to the character in question, I just don't really see why he's more significant than any other. Yeah it sucks that he's a (SPOILER)twin, but it equally sucks that (SPOILER)Remus and Tonks have a new child that will never meet them. In the end, it is all subjective so I suppose it doesn't matter. I guess I just see it differently. But that's the glory of book and sharing opinions they evoke in us. :)
My fave bit had to be learning the story of (SPOILER)snape and (SPOILER)lily that was very sad and it made (SPOILER)snape so very brave.
(SPOILER)i mean i just knew to trust him, i just couldn't bare it if he was evil, i just could stop awwing at him crying on the floor at grimmauld place
i knew from the instant i read that (SPOILER)Tonks and Lupin had married that they or one of them would die, sniff, that was horrid, but it sorta puts Teddy in Harry's shoes, just with less quests and eveil wizards
(SPOILER)I got the impression that they were about to do it too. They kissed plenty of times before, didn't they? So if it was only about a kiss, I don't think they would have made that a big deal out of it. Of course, Rowling couldn't have made it too obvious, but I think they would have gone all the way if Ron didn't surprise them.Quote:
Oh and one other thing. People have been saying that (SPOILER)Ginny was offering sex as Harry's birthday present. Wtf, is that the impression you people got? I just thought that the kiss was the present, but apparently, a lot of people think otherwise. Dunno, the scene didn't come off as "hey birthday boy, you wanna do it?" to me.
Yeah i loved the book etc but there is one question that bugs me. Who was the non-magical character who was meant to 'do magic later in life, under desperate circumstances'?
I didn't notice anyone, she might have changed her mind about that. She also said that (SPOILER)someone else was there when the Potters were killed, yet the book makes it pretty clear that Harry was the only one left alive.
Herminone appeared of an iconic figure in the book for me, and I was pleased to see that all their magical skills have thoroughly improved. Especially Ron's. They brought a lot entertaining ventures into the stratosphere of the book, and had a nice mixture of themes in the story as well. Including politics, war, and questing was very exhilarating for a reader; presenting thrills and a great sense of anticipation for the reader - usually leaving me craving to read the next line, paragraph, page or chapter.
I also like the way that Harry Potter sort of (SPOILER)turned into an admired man by the ladies! Even frightening off Ron about getting into Hermione's knickers!
A fabulous book, overall, and the best I've ever read. I would really like to a tribute installment for H.P from JKR, but I seriously doubt that would happen. (SPOILER)James, Albus and Lily sound like exciting young prosperous figures for the future. Especially Al!
Great book!
[foa]Double check your spoiler tags! -- foa[/foa]
(SPOILER)The present was pretty clearly just some kissing. If you're reading more into it, you're a dirty pervert. :p
Edit: Whoo, first post on page 4 :D
Before I make this massive post with my extensive take on the book, I'd like to say that I was wrong about that one spoilers. I was right about the rest, but unfortunately the biggest, baddest one turned out to be true. So sue me for trying to keep the magic alive. But for those of you trying to rub it in, I laugh. Yeah, I'm glad that you had the book ruined for you. I also admire how you tried to spoil it for everyone else. And I'm terribly sorry that I tried convincing you otherwise, as an attempt to maybe give you some hope. Oops. But even though I knew who would die, that did not dampen the book whatsoever. This was the best of the series, BY FAR, filled with everything a good book should have. Along with my thoughts, I will post my top three characters, and my bottom three characters, in this book.
(SPOILER)First off, one thing I really enjoyed about the book is all the random popping-ups of Death Eaters. The first, and the best being as Harry left Privet Drive. I thought the ambush was well planned, and even though I knew that Moody would die, as well as Hedwig, those deaths still managed to shock me. The only down part of this was I expected to see Moody as an Inferi somewhere. Unfortunately, not a single Inferi was seen in the entire book, and was only mentioned through Kreacher, and Grindelwald.
Secondly, I LOVED all the deaths. Like I said before, knowing about them did nothing. All of them.
Now, for the bottom three characters of the book:
NUMBER THREE:
Bellatrix. I love her character, but she was such a freak, that at one point you're like "WOW SHE'S BADASS", and next she's "oh wtf what a wimp". She was a wicked-cool witch, I just really hated when she became such a pussy.
NUMBER TWO
Lupin. I loved the character, but not the way he composed himself throughout the book. To me, it didn't really seem like Lupin at all, and I feel that as the book progressed (except after he has the baby), he wasn't as cool as he used to be. He was a coward, and overly aggressive for no reason. He was cool after the baby though. ;)
AND THE WORST CHARACTER OF THE BOOK
Fenrir Greyback. Like what the hell was the point of this guy. Half man, half wolf, all rapist? He's a savage who still isn't good enough to be a Death Eater. His character was useless, and I took satisfaction when he got taken down.
Now, the BEST THREE CHARACTERS OF THE BOOK.
NUMBER THREE
The first is a tie between Percy, and Aberforth. I loved the insight on Aberforth's character, and I especially loved the way Percy reformed in the end, as well as the way he quit, and took down his former boss.
NUMBER TWO
Speaking of reforming, I think Kreacher became an integral character in the book. I was surprised and happy when he suddenly became nice and sane and started helping them and serving dinner and stuff. Kreacher was awesome
THE BEST CHARACTER OF THE BOOK
Easiest choice ever. Molly Weasley. No contest. I loved that she killed Bellatrix, but I think the best part of the book, and a line that will be forever etched in my mind is "NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!"
Awesome.
(SPOILER)the most random death was Fred! he was the charrictor that she didnt want to kill. because it would be the best way to motivate the rest
also i agree witth Doomie!
BEST BOOK EVA
(SPOILER)Molly was pure awesome. I loved the way that the conflict brought out the weakest in people (Lupin to an extent) AND the strongest in them (Molly)
Also, I loved the way that Bella's death mirrored that of Sirius. And in the Snape and Lily flashback, did anyone else notice that what James said mirrored what Malfoy said when Harry first met him?
"Imagine being in Hufflepuff,/Who wants to be in Slytherin? I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?"
Spoilering the whole post.
(SPOILER)
* I LOVED Dumbledore's story. Not in any of the other books has Rowling ever shown Dumbledore to be -- so flawed as she did in this book. He's always been the omniscient, omnipotent one and all of a sudden he's dead and BAM. BAM BAM BAM. Did he kill his sister? Was he an evil guy? She just made him, as foa said, so human, it was great.
* I thought she worked pretty well with Snape too; I kept hoping, all the way through, that Snape would be shown to be good, to be good, but no, he's getting eviller and eviller, he's doing bad things to the kids at Hogwarts -- this is something that confuses me, though; if Snape was still on Dumbledore's side at heart, how the smurf could he stand doing that to all the kids at Hogwarts? Couldn't he have found some way to keep the Carrows out? Or were all the kids just sacrifice for...uhm...the greater good? (if those words be permitted)
* Maybe this book read way too much like a film and lacked some of the finesse a novel should have had; it was composed so hugely in flashbacks and penseive memories and action-packed what the whats -- that scene inside the Lestrange's Gringott's vault lost me completely. All I recall is them getting burned and me getting irritated at Rowling; it was a lousy bit. And the bits about Snape and the penseive (am I even spelling this right?) were nice, but they were so BAM BAM BAM in your face -- like she'd meant to tell us all along but it was too late now so she had to shove it in our faces in curt little snippets. I dunno.
* The epilogue was rubbish. She was just trying to stuff everybody in, like they do in the last episode of any TV series -- here's Ron, Hermione, here's Harry and Ginny and all the good people! Look! Professor Longbottom! Awww (cue the reader feeling warm and fuzzy, because Neville Longbottom has truly achieved in life, truly achieved! He teaches Herbology at Hogwarts!) It was horrible. Not to mention the fact that -- Harry and Ron and Hermione and all just weren't believable as adults. They might have been thirty-six in the book, but Ron and Hermione were acting exactly the same. The best thing about that was the very last line, though -- "All was well." I liked that :-)
* It seems kinda strange to me that the three of them would just -- go into the Ministry of Magic in the guise of three Ministry workers, without thinking of what would happen if people actually saw them. I mean, the bit worked and stuff, and it'll be great when they make the movie; real thrilling stuff -- but it just didn't seem so very plausible? Although maybe hey this is Harry Potter and I'm just a lousy nit-picker O_O
* Hagrid -- UNDERCUT.
* Snape -- UNDERCUT (until the BAM BAM BAM anyways)
* Malfoy -- w-wha...??? She didn't go either way with him; if he was going to turn good, he didn't really show it -- she just kinda made him snivelly. A drip. I think she could have made more of him, but eh.
* The Shell Cottage bit really was lovely :-) Dobby's death was incredibly tragic and ohhhh that bit about the stars reflecting on his dead eyes :cry: it cut my heart.
* I don't really dispute any of her deaths; she kills Lupin and Tonks, fine (although she sure did it in a weird way; I had to read the line over about five times to make sure that yes, they were actually dead). It was war, and it's only natural that everyone isn't going to come out unscathed. I'm glad she did what she did. Although I kinda wish she'd killed George instead of Fred though; he'd already lost an ear. At least Fred was whole.
* I agree with foa on the Percy hopping in thing xD wtf. That was the most...un-Percy-like thing ever. "I was a pompous prat..." (or something to that effect) -- what?! Gah!!!!
* Bellatrix was definitely diminished imho. She was so -- so beautifully wicked in the past few books that it was quite disappointing to see her lose her cool like that.
I know I sound really critical xD but it's always easier to pick out the bad stuff than the good. It was a great book; much better than the previous two -- I loved the way she tried to bring everybody together one last time -- the appearance of Oliver Wood!? xD Brilliant. (And she did it so well throughout the book, so seamlessly -- the epilogue was skewered!)
I was so caught up in the awesomeness of the (SPOILER)Bellatrix/Molly duel that I COMPLETELY forgot the second best moment of the book. *Ahem*
(SPOILER)
And he spat in her face.
Harry pulled the cloak off himself, raised his wand and said, 'You shouldn't have done that.'
As Amycus spun around, Harry shouted, 'Crucio!'
[...]
'Potter!' whispered Professor McGonagall, clutching her heart. 'Potter - you're here! What -? How -?' She struggled to pull herself together. 'Potter, that was foolish!'
'He spat on you,' said Harry.
Doomie, even though you are the epitome of beauty, strength and wit, SPOILER TAGS - Psy.
I would say that
(SPOILER)The deaths of Lupin and Tonks were underdone. 2 of the best characters in the stories and they were just thrown in as a side comment 'oh yeah, and lupin and tonks looked asleep and harry walked from the room'
Dobbys death was done really well.
i agree with Resha on the bit in Gringotts, it was done very shabbily
Also, they Epilogue was crap, she could have just done snippets of all the characters lives rather than that crap bit
overall it was an amazing book though
I liked what she did with Malfoy. It made him more human.
(SPOILER)I also think that living undecided is nothing more than he deserves, because he is too afraid to stand for anything.
Also, doomie's bit, I actually had a mental image of McGonagall going "...that was very GALLANT of you, but-"
McGonagall was excellent in this book. Absolutely loved her and her thundering herd of desks.
secondedQuote:
Originally Posted by Resha
I was gripped throughout the whole book, afraid to miss out even a line. I was almost about to cry when (SPOILER)Dobby died.
My favourite character throughout the book was Hermione. Without her, Harry and Ron wouldn't have noticed quite a lot of important things. She always has her opinion. Sexy too. ;)
Thirded~Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Seconded. But then when was McGonagall not awesome? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
Fourthed!Quote:
Originally Posted by fire_of_avalonThirded~Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Well, finally got done reading it. (SPOILER)I can see how the epilogue might seem tacked on to some people, although I'm personally a sucker for cheesy endings so I actually enjoyed it.
My favorite part of the book would when everyone's fighting at Hogwarts. It seemed a bit sudden, since they were all 'well, let's sneak into Hogwarts and find the Horcrux, even though we have no idea where it is or what it could be', and then everyone decides to fight. In fact, finding the Horcruxes in itself seemed kinda silly, although I'm happy that it seemed a bit more realistic than I was expecting. Still, McGonagall and Molly Weasley displayed the maximum amount of awesomeness.
Some of the scenes really felt that there was no way they could possibly escape a situation (until I have to remind myself that there are still 400 more pages to go or so), like that whole Lestranges' vault thing. Escaping on the dragon was pretty badass though. I mean I've been waiting for someone to ride on a dragon through all other sorts of magical creatures in the series.
I was hoping Umbridge and Rita Skeeter would get owned in this book, but that never happened. :/ I guess a Stupefy is all I get.
That bit with Snape, Lily, and Petunia was really emotional to me. We finally get to have some development with Petunia (what I was waiting for awhile), and I felt really sad for Snape in the end.
100% Awesomeness:
-Molly Weasley
-Professor McGonagall
-Neville
-Neville's Grandma xD This is the first we really see of her, isn't it? "Now if you'll excuse me I must go join him".
So yeah, I really liked the book. It's interesting to see how dark the series has evolved from the innocent early novels...
Who did JK say would exhibit magical tendencies later in life?
Why did (SPOILER)Hedwig have to die?:cry:
Screw the owl! Why (SPOILER)Dobby!
I think she dropped that storyline since there's no one who fits that description.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomie
Hermione cried every other 3 paragraphs. So annoying. :p
It was due to Ron, and frequent "Girly" stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fonz
(SPOILER)I probably would say that JKR didn't touch much light on the epilogue, and just gave a bleak outline on what's happening Harry, casting aside other characters and other people in the Wizarding world. I feel she could of devoted a whole formal chapter to the epilogue instead of 4 measly pages, and she failed to even describe what Harry, Ginny, Hermione and Ron even looked like, let alone the children. "A red-haired girl and a kid with Harry's mothers eyes!" - Pathetic, but it was nice to read.
I felt all the deaths were done justice, and I admire the way she made Snape - I mean professor Snape appear as a triple agent/spy, it was gripping and spectacular. She covered it up nicely. People don't understand why he had to treat the Hogwarts students so badly? It's obvious because he had to make the whole concept of him being Voldomort's servant look real! Death Eaters aren't gonna show respect for students who talk back, and Serverus was in authority so he had to punish them severely, especially with the Carrows on his back. Snape was also a brave man, because he had been undergoing this mission for less than a decade, and it was a shame that the Dark Lord chose to dispose of him.
Bellatrix was awesome, and Molly taught that crazy bitch a good lesson. Yaxley was funny, and when the kids sneaked into the ministry, it was exciting reading how much respect that Runcorn geezer had. Harry showed his true daringness and braveness in this novel, and Hermione revealed all her knowledge wits - Ron showed us some of his strong capabilities, and it was really great to read.
I love Dumbledore's story, and it was interesting to read bits and pieces. Who would of guessed it was true?! Aberfouth was remarkable and I felt his presence in the story was favorable. Neville blew me off his feet and was heroic as well, and Ginny sounded so damn sexy!
I was sad when Alastoir Moody died, and it was realistic the way J.K mentioned that Harry felt half like laughing and half disgusted with the way he portrayed an image of Mad-eye sprawled out on the ground. I felt like laughing too!
We got to know Voldomort a lot more this time, and saw a lot of his sinister and sadistic side. He was no longer a myth in this novel, but was "Ooh" very real. I liked that. Lucius was a pussy throughout, and I hated it. Wormtail died like a watery eye rat, which he is...
Meeting Dumbledore near the end was both touching and warming, because even more secrets were revealed. Knowing that at the end of this series that Harry has finally gathered the respect he deserves is fab, but even better because of his modest nature. Kreacher was great as well - the way he turned good after the affection he desired all this time.
It was funny the way they killed off all the friends or students from Harry's father's year:
James Potter - Sirius Black - Regus Lupin - Peter Pettigrew - Severus Snape - Lily Evans
Overall, it was the best book I've read in years!
He never stated he didn't know; rather, he was pointing out that Hermione's antics were quite annoying - if not to the point of being ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by HazzardIt was due to Ron, and frequent "Girly" stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fonz
I'm terribly sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazzard
Don't quote my posts if you're just gonna say crap and irrelevant nonsense. :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominus ExperseHe never stated he didn't know; rather, he was pointing out that Hermione's antics were quite annoying - if not to the point of being ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by HazzardIt was due to Ron, and frequent "Girly" stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fonz
I'm terribly sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazzard
By attempting to answer a question that was never stated, you may want to rediscover the meaning of "nonsense" and "crap".Quote:
Originally Posted by HazzardDon't quote my posts if you're just gonna say crap and irrelevant nonsense. :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by Nominus ExperseHe never stated he didn't know; rather, he was pointing out that Hermione's antics were quite annoying - if not to the point of being ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by HazzardIt was due to Ron, and frequent "Girly" stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fonz
I'm terribly sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazzard
And seeing that you are 14, I suppose it may be forgivable or otherwise understandable that Harry Potter is the best book you've read in years.
/end of rather inane bickering in thread
I wonder if Rowling will attempt to expand on the Potter universe? And furthermore, if she does, if it will be an attempt in milking a cultural phenomenon of money, or if it will be a more noble endeavor that actually draws more light to what could be a complex magical world.
(SPOILER)This last book left us with a rather forced, cheesy note, 19 years later. It would perhaps be interesting to see what a "normal" wizard in the Potter universe lives now that the Dark Lord is finished.
The reason I mention this is due to the fact that it seems as though the various characters throughout the series do not seem to be what could be defined as "normal" - even in a mode of thought that would allow numerous oddities to be explained via it being in the Wizarding World.
But that in itself could a point to look into.
BTW - Nominus, I wasn't addressing your previous statement referring to The Fonz post, but the following comment afterwards.
/Ended
I agree that if she tried to point the view at hand to a normal wizard, it would be interesting to see how she could develop the character beyond that mark, but I also feel that she had ended the whole Harry Potter era infinitely, but the wandlore idea most likely will be expanded and worked upon.
What is the point in this topic if you can't post spoilers
(SPOILER) I may be the only one to think this way, but I thought Fred's death seemed more appropriate for one of the Final Destination movies than a HP book. It had that mixture of gruesome and random. I mean just picture Fred laying there, his face still showing the laughter of a few seconds before, possibly a brick sticking out of the back of his head. Its almost haunting.
(SPOILER)I thought it was Petunia. Since when Harry was in Snape's memories, Lily mentioned about Petunia writing to Dumbledore to ask to go to Hogwarts. I was under the impression that she was allowed to go, but then changed her mind. *shrugs* Speaking of Petunia, I wish Rowling had mentioned more about the Dursley's after they split off. I really wanted to know what she was going to say to Harry. My bet is that she was going to say that she loved him and/or Lily. I honestly do not think that Petunia actually hated her sister but truly loved her deep down and that is why she kept Harry all those years.Quote:
Originally Posted by MirielI think she dropped that storyline since there's no one who fits that description.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomie
(SPOILER)The thing that confused me was whether Petunia could of adopted some magical powers as well as Lily, because why would she enroll to Hogwarts and receive an returning later stating she is welcome to join? I wonder if Dumberdore knew that she possessed ability to awaken such powers, but lost courage when the time came to board the train...? Surely, Dumbledore doesn't have the skill in magic to help evoke inner powers from such children.
(SPOILER)I don't think that happened. Magic is like monobrows; it just happens or doesnt I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazzard
Also, I think you misunderstood that bit. Petunia was jealous of Lily's magic: she wanted to be a witch as well. She sent a letter to Dumbledore asking him to join Hogwarts, but she couldn't as obviously she is a Muggle. Neither her nor her sister understood this, because Lily mentioned trying to change Dumbledore's mind about not letting her join the school.
I was under the impression that JK confirmed it wasn't/wouldn't be Petunia.
From Mugglenet, which character got the reprieve and a follow up Harry Potter encyclopedia (yay!):
Read entire article HERE.Quote:
In an interview with the Today Show, JK Rowling revealed who the character is that received a reprieve in Deathly Hallows. (SPOILER)Arthur Weasley
Additionally, Jo announced that she "probably will" create a Harry Potter encyclopedia! From NBC's website:
The encyclopedia would include back stories of characters she has already written but had to cut for the sake of narrative arc (“I've said before that Dean Thomas had a much more interesting history than ever appeared in the books”), as well as details about the characters who survive “Deathly Hallows,” characters who continue to live on in Rowling’s mind in a clearly defined magical world.
Such great news! I was soooo unsatisfied with the epilogue, and a encyclopedia detailing what happened afterward would be awesome.
Hmm, although I don't much care for the Potter series or universe, this does pique my curiosity.
(SPOILER)Why are so many people hating the 'Nineteen Years Later' chapter? People shouldn't just say it is 'pathetic' or 'rubbish.' Just because it doesn't have a lot of description of characters, or any information about others, doesn't mean it is pointless. It makes you visualise on your own, and get you thinking about the other characters which were not mentioned. I really hate it when people, for one minute say 'yeah I loved it, it was so great' then follow up on other peoples opinions. Please have a mind of your own...
i think people are just upset cause they find it cheesy
but it's the same as in many forms of media and i think it fits, though i could see most of it happening without having read it anyway.
Why do you care if other people disliked it? I certainly don't care if people loved it. It's personal opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comet
Personally, I hated it because it read like bad fanfiction. Rowling has said so herself that the epilogue was written years ago and I think you can tell that the epilogue just doesn't fit well with the series as a whole. When has she ever written a scene so cheesy, so overloaded with names and people, so eager to be happyhappyeveryonesmile! before? I think it was poorly written.
Did I say 'I care that people disliked it?' Did I say 'Don't have a personal opinion?'Quote:
Originally Posted by MirielWhy do you care if other people disliked it? I certainly don't care if people loved it. It's personal opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comet
Personally, I hated it because it read like bad fanfiction. Rowling has said so herself that the epilogue was written years ago and I think you can tell that the epilogue just doesn't fit well with the series as a whole. When has she ever written a scene so cheesy, so overloaded with names and people, so eager to be happyhappyeveryonesmile! before? I think it was poorly written.
You don't need to get defensive. Your post questioned why people disliked the epilogue and also that you think people "shouldn't" call it rubbish. It sounded like you care.
Oh, sorry, I think I'm about to get 'defensive.' :)
The one thing that bothers me most is not knowing who performed magic late in life under desperate circumstances. I'm not convinced it's (SPOILER)Ted Tonks as many people claim over the internet. Can someone look up the passage in OotP? It either says Tonks' mother married a muggle or a muggle born.
I was also a little irked by (SPOILER)Ron being able to open the Chamber of Secrets. I've heard the argument about imitating a different language and it sounding the same. I always got the impression Parseltongue was very rare and it wasn't something you could learn.
Everyone's pretty much covered the deaths. (SPOILER)Dobby's death was the only one that really touched me. Mad-Eye's death touched me a little bit, but Dobby's death was beautifully written. I think I even laughed when Hedwig died. I'm not sure what she was going for there. Fred, Lupin, and Tonks death were just thrown to the side, but I think the way in which they were handled were realistic enough. Giving every important character a drawn out death would be a bit over the top and unrealistic.
Also, (SPOILER)I enjoyed the chapter "King's Cross" with Harry and Dumbledore and the whimpering flayed-skinned child representing Voldemort's soul that was destroyed by Voldemort himself. I think JKR made it a bit too confusing on why Harry was able to come back. In fact, it seems she gave him more than one reason in being able to return. Not only was Harry's blood in Voldy being able to bring him back, but also wouldn't the fact that Voldy was using the wand Harry was the master of also a reason it couldn't kill him? And I'm really interested as to what happened when Voldemort (probably) went unconscious. Did he experienced a similar dream-like state.
I also had no problem with the epilogue. I thoroughly enjoyed this book.
One thing that's bugging me is (SPOILER)Snape's patronus. I'm assuming that Lily's patronus was a doe, which is why Snape's was (going on the fact that Tonk's patronus became a wolf (presumably, was that ever explicitly stated?)), and how Dumbledore knew he was still in love with Lily, right? It's just that I don't think we ever knew Lily's patronus WAS a doe; were we supposed to know that's what Lily's was due to the fact that James' was a stag? Eurgh, I don't get it. Have I missed something here, or am I just being retarded?
About that...Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudDragon
http://i7.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou::...::bou:/664vx2d
:D
(SPOILER)We had no idea what Snape or Lily's patronuses were until we read the chapter "The Prince's Tale". Everything was revealed then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiffing Cheese
Also I'm going to assume or rather guess that the US cover for TDH was portraying (SPOILER)The final confrontation between Voldy and Harry in the Great Hall when the sun comes up over the horizon, and Harry reaches for the Elder Wand? Anyone else have other ideas?
EDIT: Classic picture.
Miriel, I lolled. Also (SPOILER)If she wrote the epilogue so long ago, then she knew harry was going to live the whole time, so she DIDN"T give in to her fans like a lot of people have been claming? The ones that just knew harry was a goner?:p
(SPOILER)I also want to know what happened to Voldy at that time, but as far as I could tell, Harry didn't die because of a deus ex machina; i.e. "uncharted areas of magic" which basically means Rowling can do whatever the heck she wants for the sake of where she wants the story to go. That said, I wasn't too bothered by this particular deus ex machina.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudDragon
I also forgot to mention (SPOILER)that apparently Rowling gave Harry 3 possible ways out of death. The two I mentioned earlier, and the fact that he was the owner of all three Hallows (which we didn't know at the time of course with the wand). Dumbledore did make a reference telling Harry the he was the true uniter of the Hallows. I also don't particularly see it as a deus ex machina because she has explanations that do fit accurately. We just aren't sure which one actually did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF(SPOILER)I also want to know what happened to Voldy at that time, but as far as I could tell, Harry didn't die because of a deus ex machina; i.e. "uncharted areas of magic" which basically means Rowling can do whatever the heck she wants for the sake of where she wants the story to go. That said, I wasn't too bothered by this particular deus ex machina.Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudDragon
Oh, my gosh, I just finished this book and it was the greatest piece of literature I have read in my life...I was a little disappointed that I didn't get to see Hogwarts the same way we did in the previous books, but as I read, I found it was better that way n.n
Besides, how the heck would she have pulled that off?
(SPOILER)And as for Snape and Lily's patronus, I think someone confirmed Lily's was a doe in the book...I don't remember :P
I think that you were just sort of supposed to tie it together on your own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiffing Cheese
A lot of things were left self-explained.
Ditto but I wanted 200 more pages of it :love:Quote:
Originally Posted by Little BlueI agree. There could've been more about the aftermath but I felt it was a rather touching and pretty good way to end it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnie
I'm looking forward to the encyclopedia of it all.
Appendices and the like are always interesting with fantasy and science fiction. I say this because we - the reader - are then given a raw look at all that the author envisioned. In essence, we are made capable of truly seeing the scope and value that the author found in their own personal world.
It's like being able to climb into the painting of an artist, and seeing the number of complexities in the work in a more penetrating way.
Yes, the encyclopedia would be great. I'd love for her to do one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeargdribble
Even though it sucks that (SPOILER)Lupin and Tonks died after having a baby I found it kind of fitting that they (SPOILER)made Harry its Godfather So Rowling did good with that part I think because now the child has Harry as family but can also have him to relate to because of the similar situations. The more I think about it, and as much as I hated the epilogue, I am glad she did it how she did because it will always leave us guessing, until she spilled everything on the Today show interview and an interview in USA TODAY newspaper, but the best part of any book is the suspense of what will happen, but I honestly now have a greater appreciation for her for how she ended it all, even though at first I didn't.
Finished Deathly Hallows this morning...just some thoughts about it:
For the most part, I adored this book :jess:. None of the others in the series - or any other book I've read, I think, have made me gasp or laugh like this one did. It's not exactly high literature, but it was still extremely touching in places ((SPOILER)Dobby's death and burial, Harry's death march in the forest and the talk with Dumbledore, etc.), and I definitely prefer it over most of the god-awfully boring and pretentious classic literature I've had to read :p
I actually liked (SPOILER) the epilogue...I liked that JKR didn't take the easy way out and just rattle off a list of things the characters did after defeating Voldemort. I kind of choked up a little when I realized Harry and Ginny had ended up together after all :p. It was nice that, even though they received so little attention, the children had pretty fleshed-out personalities. And the final sentence, "All was well," gave some nice, peaceful closure to the series.
I also really enjoyed (SPOILER) the chapter on Snape. His relationship with Lily and his devotion to her helped a lot in making them seem "realer" and more nuanced, and it was just really interesting to read more about some of the adult characters as they were growing up and seeing different events from Snape's perspective.
And I thought this line was hysterical :p
Quote:
(SPOILER)"Wands are only as powerful as the wizards who use them. Some wizards just like to boast that theirs are bigger and better than other people's." Obviously, I have a dirty mind.
Snape's a butthole. :)
But that's no spoiler.
(SPOILER)Did you read this book? :screwy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hambone
I just finished it tonight. I thought it was OK, nothing too mind-blowing, but then again, I hadn't been hanging out for this book, so it was good enough for me.
(SPOILER)I liked how each of the Horcruxes was destroyed by a different person.
Diary - Harry
Ring - Dumbledore
Locket - Ron
Cup - Hermione
Diadem - Crabbe
Harry - Voldemort
Nagini - Neville
I always thought the sword would pop up again, and I'd hoped that either Ron or Neville would use it.
The whole "come back to life" thing was a bit too similar to Jesus and The Matrix, I think that if Harry was going to die, he should have stayed dead, and somebody like Neville, Snape or even Malfoy (any one of them) finish Voldemort off.
After I read Lupin and Tonks dying suddenly in quick sucession I was a bit annoyed. I liked both of them and I think Tonks definitely should not have died. Aberforth was a much better candidate for the role of sacrificial lamb. And as for Hagrid, that oaf should've died TWICE, but was kept alive just so he could get a mention in the sunshine-lollipops-and-rainbows ending. Apart from the last two lines, I thought that epilogue was a huge disappointment. Hell, I would've been happier if it had ended before the epilogue, despite the fact it would then lack closure.
I still have a few questions, though.
(SPOILER)Why did Dumbledore give Hermione the book in his will? The other items' importance was clear (The Deluminator helped Ron find Harry and Hermione again, the snitch had the Resurrection Stone in it, the sword ended up destroying three Horcruxes), but the book had no discernible purpose, other than to make Harry go within an inch of screwing up the mission entirely (he almost talked to Ollivander first at Shell Cottage)
How could Dumbledore have defeated Grindelwald? The Elder Wand would mean Grindelwald could never lose a duel, and the book clearly states, several times, Dumbledore duelled him and won, then took his wand. I doubt Grindelwald would have chosen to use a different wand, or gone easy on his former friend.
Why did Dobby have to die?? :( :( :(
One more thing. Has anybody counted how many time the word 'beam' and variations was used?
@Firo
Dumbledore gave Hermoine the fairy tale book, because it was clearly the fact that he was aware that Hermione is alert, bright and can decipher things more easily than other wizards/witches. The book led to the discovery of the Deathly Hallows in a roundabout way because of the emblem on the first page, and the tale of the three brothers and Death.
The Elder Wand doesn't technically make the user all mighty and powerful, because how would the predecessors of the wand be killed or beaten in a dual? By winning in all sorts of fashions, and Dumbledore and many others stated that Albus was always one notch better than Grindelwald.
Sad that Dobby died.
J.K loves to use that word, and has a repetitive flow of using words again and again. I noticed it far too often.
yea snape is the best, always was, always will be! :mad2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Potato(SPOILER)Did you read this book? :screwy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hambone
I think it was to slow down Harry and friends from chasing the Deathly Hallows. By making sure Hermione knew it was a children's book Dumbledore made her be the opposing force whenever Harry tried to chase it. And it worked too, right ? Hermione was the biggest opposition to chase the Hallows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazzard
I don't really think Dumbledore thought that much in depth about it, because he only really knows of Hermione's level of intellect, and can't really predict what her logical view would be like on such a book. I think he thought that they would notice the emblem, look it up, and then that would be their link to the Deathly Hallows.Quote:
Originally Posted by RenmiriI think it was to slow down Harry and friends from chasing the Deathly Hallows. By making sure Hermione knew it was a children's book Dumbledore made her be the opposing force whenever Harry tried to chase it. And it worked too, right ? Hermione was the biggest opposition to chase the Hallows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazzard
But on that scene at King's Cross he did tell Harry that he counted on Hermione to slow them down. That is why I thought the book was his way of making Hermione dismiss it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HazzardI don't really think Dumbledore thought that much in depth about it, because he only really knows of Hermione's level of intellect, and can't really predict what her logical view would be like on such a book. I think he thought that they would notice the emblem, look it up, and then that would be their link to the Deathly Hallows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
lol....no, I bought it a couple of days ago. I'm in chapter 22 of The Order of the Phoenix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Potato(SPOILER)Did you read this book? :screwy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hambone
Maybe so, but I feel it was just a slight presumption and he never whole heartedly thought that Hermione would refuse to the whole theory, because I never got the feeling that Dumbledore knew her or Ron that much - even mentioned by them two when Rufus Scrimgeour comes to visit at the Burrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by RenmiriBut on that scene at King's Cross he did tell Harry that he counted on Hermione to slow them down. That is why I thought the book was his way of making Hermione dismiss it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HazzardI don't really think Dumbledore thought that much in depth about it, because he only really knows of Hermione's level of intellect, and can't really predict what her logical view would be like on such a book. I think he thought that they would notice the emblem, look it up, and then that would be their link to the Deathly Hallows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renmiri
So I just finished the book, and I thought it was really well done with the exception of the (SPOILER)final battle with Harry x Voldemort. Two spells and it's over? Huh. The whole battle at Hogwarts was awesome though.
I don't really understand the purpose of the Hallows throughout the entire thing, though. (SPOILER)They didn't really end up doing much of anything, did they? Or at least, I didn't really understand the significance - they ended up just going after the horcruxes anyway.
Also, (SPOILER)SO MANY DEATHS. But I found myself not caring about any of them except Hedwig's. Well, and Snape, but I predicted his death after I read the sixth book. The Prince's Tale is the best chapter in the history of the series, too.
edit: Oh yeah -
(SPOILER)
I thought the burning and multiplying curses were amazing, creepy, and very original. I liked the idea completely. .Quote:
that scene inside the Lestrange's Gringott's vault lost me completely. All I recall is them getting burned and me getting irritated at Rowling; it was a lousy bit.
i agree about the final battle...it was so anticlimactic.
The last battle was rushed, and all the tension and climatic thrill just evaporated in a few matter of seconds for me. Too much chatting, little fighting. I'm surprised Voldomort would bother circling Harry when he usually goes for the kill early.
(SPOILER)I got the impression that Dumbledore had the right to one of the hallows, the elder wand, as he was a very great wizard, and Grindelwald didn't have the right to any of them at all. Harry had the right to all of them, but he kept the cloak which he was the most comfortable with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
I don't quite think it was that really. (SPOILER)Obviously the holder of the Elder Wand can be defeated otherwise the ownership of it would never pass on. Hence, Dumbledore could have simply disarmed Grindelwald or something and the Elder Wand would not have been as effective. While I don't think that would be the case, I think that the ability of the wand holder comes into it as well. Dumbledore was a pretty effective duelist and could have overpowered Grindelwald, I think be it through skill or luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by scrumpleberry(SPOILER)I got the impression that Dumbledore had the right to one of the hallows, the elder wand, as he was a very great wizard, and Grindelwald didn't have the right to any of them at all. Harry had the right to all of them, but he kept the cloak which he was the most comfortable with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
since this thread is all spoilers, i'm just gonna assume that anyone who reads this has read the book or doesn't care
if the wand was 'undefeatable' in a duel...the only way to get it should be to kill the person in their sleep or somesuch
makes me think that they weren't really 'deathly' at all, but as was postulated, just artifacts of great power.
I loved that scene! Their escape atop that poor tortured dragon was the greatest! :love: I wish the dragon had played more parts in the book such as incinerating some death eaters!Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits
But....
Is it just me or (SPOILER)Fred's Death spoiled re-reading the books for everybody ? I just can't imagine enjoying them the same after that :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits
My take on it was (SPOILER)that the Deathly Hallows played all the significance in the world. Think back to the Tale of the Three Brothers in which the Deathly Hallows was introduced to us readers. The first two brothers did not find solace with their gifts. The last brother with the Invisibility Cloak did. As you might recall, he lived a long life, gave the Cloak to his son and welcomed Death with open arms. I believe this part of the story dealing with the third brother and welcoming death was the most important.
Dumbledore wanted the trio to find out about the Deathly Hallows, and most importantly, he wanted Harry to know. His goal wasn't for Harry to search after all Hallows, but to learn the story's lesson. He already had the Cloak, and that was the only gift he needed. Remember Dumbledore knew Harry was a Horcrux (or at least made a "really good guess") and thus sent him to die. Let's go back to the chatper titled "The Prince's Tale". Dumbledore tells Snape that he must tell him this information when Voldy starts protecting his snake. Dumbledore knew Harry would find out this information about him having a piece of Voldemort's soul attached, but had to make sure it was at the right time.
Also, go back to the first couple paragraphs of "The Forest Again". When Harry basically has an epiphany after viewing all of Snape's past memories. He (if I'm not mistaken) even SAYS that he has to welcome Death with open arms. Also, Harry was able to open the snitch when he told it he was about to die. As we learned in "The Prince's Tale", Dumbledore had a lot more planned in the end than any of us could have ever expected. He may not have been perfect, as his past showed us, but he definitely made up for his mistakes in the last few years of his life.
J.K. Rowling interview
This answers a lot of questions, but a lot of people think that Rowling made stuff up as she went along :p
Your link is awesome, I read the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Potato
I never knew Bellatrix loved Voldomort romantically...
(SPOILER)I expected her to, really. She was unbelievably and endlessly devoted to Voldemort in a way that I really thought resembled unrequited love. I felt this particularly over how bitter she was with Snape when Snape made out that Voldemort trusted him more than Bellatrix.
That's true, and J.K even wrote a line saying "the way she knelt beside Voldomort and gazed up at him, was of that of lover would"Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath
She was one of the best though.
(SPOILER)That was actually one of the "groan" parts of the book for me. It seemed that this scene was written specifically with the movie in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomie
I've very disappointed she just decided to change her mind about the person who performs magic late in life. Why wouldn't she have told us this after book 3 was released?
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Mullet(SPOILER)That was actually one of the "groan" parts of the book for me. It seemed that this scene was written specifically with the movie in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomie
reminded me of aliensQuote:
Originally Posted by Moon RabbitsYes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Mullet(SPOILER)That was actually one of the "groan" parts of the book for me. It seemed that this scene was written specifically with the movie in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomie
http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Efer..._fm_Aliens.jpg
that bit made me laugh :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomie
personally im a bit confusd about the kings cross chapter. (SPOILER)how did harry ''die''( i know he didnt acually die) then woke up again when he was speaking to dumbledore. waas it all just a dream kinda thing in his head?
it was a very good book though and i agree about (SPOILER)harry and voldemorts battle it was very short
also i expeted that (SPOILER) after lupin and tonks died the child would have gone to harry.
and it was expected really that (SPOILER)ginny and harry got married. its nice that hermionie and ron did too. that last 19 years later chpter was good. it was a really good ending1
ROFL!!! Great site Disco Potato!
lmao that site is great!!:D
I knew he had something to do with it! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by The Site
Yay, loving the recap.
That bit actually made me laugh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Mullet(SPOILER)That was actually one of the "groan" parts of the book for me. It seemed that this scene was written specifically with the movie in mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomie
I finished the book this morning, and (SPOILER)I found the ending really disappointing. It should have just ended when they described how they put Voldemort's body in a seperate room. END.
There were loads of deaths! It became quite repetitive, and each time it didn't have as much impact as it the death before that. I was all upset when Dobby died, but no one else. Fred and Lupin shouldn't have died either, I loved those 2 ;__;
The book was probably my 2nd favourite, none of them beat the 3rd. I can't remember its name, but that one was immense. Deathly Hallows was alot maturer and alot more interesting, imho.
It's my fave now. (SPOILER)I think Snape is the best character, I really truly thought he had the best backstory and the way he was written was excellent.
Favourites for meee: DH, PoA, GoF, PS, CoS, HBP, OoTP.
I finished this yesterday :)
I really liked it, cleared up a lot of missing background behind some of the charecters.
Was a lot more darker then the others this one. the final battle (SPOILER) a few words from harry, a avarda kadarvra and an expelliarmus and it was all over. hit by his own spell, dissapointing but somehow...satisfying.
The 19 years later bit was sweet (SPOILER) kinda predictable that ginny and harry would end up getting it on, not so predictable that they have 3 kids :S cutre though. something isnt right with Harry Potter having sex though :S i dunno just dont seem...right!
Get on Ron and Hermiony too!, that was a complete shock that they chose to have children and such. and Draco shocked me by actually finding somebody to give him a child...scorponius?! what a name!! still very nice. good closure :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by xXsarahXx
(SPOILER)The name is 'Scorpius' and it turns me on to the max thinking of Hermione getting it on :eek:
Yeah, I've finished reading it about a month ago, I truly have enjoyed it :D
I totally predicted the entire The Prince's Tale chapter. (SPOILER)As soon as Dumby died in Book 6 I knew it was a set up, and as soon as the doe appeared I knew it was Snape's and that he was in love with Lily. I am so smart!
Very entertaining read! Possibly tied with Chamber for best in the series.
Or are you J.K. Rowling... :shifty:Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
SAME HERE YAY lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
just finished it....bloody awesome didnt expect soo many people to die end was abit of an anticlimax (SPOILER)just with how voldermort was taken care of but anything before that was just freakin awesome....cant wait to see all of that in a movie....wonder what they're gonna cut out lol!
i was pretty cut up about (SPOILER)dobby, Fred and omg REMUS AND TONKS...i still dont think that needed to happen in particular felt like i was being jerked around!
Loved what molly did lol hahaha
flawed but still this book was a great cap to the series!
(SPOILER)They can cut out a lot of the middle where they're just wandering the country-side trying to figure out what to do. That seemed like a lot of filler to make the book longer to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by *ETERNAL FANTASY*
(SPOILER)I expected Lupin to die. Since Sirius and James are dead, and Wormtail was expected to die, I figured Lupin would need to die for the "original" group to be complete.Quote:
Originally Posted by *ETERNAL FANTASY*
I'm way late to this thread, but I'll talk anyway. I read the book in a little over a day. I expected the pairings, but not the deaths. Most of them I was very sad about.
This thread is over a year old. If you would like to talk about the book then feel free to start a new topic about it.