Let's just say I'm glad I only have one Man U player in my Fantasy Football team
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Let's just say I'm glad I only have one Man U player in my Fantasy Football team
Attachment 58976
Attachment 58977
SUPER GARRY MONK
SUPER GYLFI SIGURDSSON
SUPER SWANSEA CITY
>LOUIS VAN LEL
(SPOILER)Attachment 58978
Record setting start for United..... Just not the good kind.
I've been saying for weeks now that their squad looks very underwhelming and today was the proof. Their biggest problem is what Liverpool recently: they need top talent but don't have the European football that those players crave. It's a catch-22. They will have go pay over the moon go get a DiMaria or Vidal but they REALLY need them. If they don't address that defense as well, my prediction of top 6 may be flattering.
Glad football is back.
Take care all.
It was quite entertaining seeing everyone expecting Manchester United to storm against Swansea, and then to see them lose 2-1.
Glad the league is back! :D
To be honest as soon as I saw United line up with a three man defence including two players horribly out of form and that Blackett kid's first game I didn't think they'd win the match.
Vidal and Di Maria are all well and good but that squad badly needs defenders, Smalling shouldn't be anywhere near the first team at the moment and Jones only seems to perform at a reasonable standard when either Vidic or Ferdinand were barking instructions at him. They need leaders at the back, and with perennial backup man Jonny Evans as their most experienced defender (who still hasn't played 30 league games in a season) they simply don't have that.
Job done, Raheem Sterling is a boss.
In my Fantasy Football team, too, so I'm okay with his work today.
Speaking of Fantasy Football, I knew Vlaar would end up getting bonus points on the back of his World Cup fame.
Rojo for £16m? Oh dear. Now you begin to see the desperation. Indeed, United are reminding me so much of Liverpool right now.
I don't know too much about Rojo so I can't really comment. But we needed depth of centre backs and this is an addition that suits that position. I dare say a World Cup finalist is a safer bet than Blackett. £16m is what you'd expect us to spend on squad players. Unless they are in a youth team, I don't think United really can buy first team players for lower than that in this market.
He's only £16m 'cause of that third party ownership thing. There was better value to be had in the market, put it that way. Just gonna leave what Tim Vickery said here and leave it at that.Quote:
"Louis van Gaal is clearly thinking in terms of having a back three in his armoury and he might think Marcos Rojo ticks the boxes as someone who can play at left-back, can play centre-back, and therefore would be comfortable left-side of a back three. But two months ago, certainly before the World Cup, no one really imagined Rojo as a player of Manchester United's calibre.
"He did well in the World Cup and his market value has obviously risen as a result, but I'm having to get it round my head a little bit the idea he might be wearing the United shirt because, certainly until recently, I didn't really see him as that calibre of player."
I don't like it. It seems excessive to me. Yes he's young and has talent but that is still a lot of money for a defender. OK, he's played in a World Cup Final but by all accounts Argentina aren't exactly inundated with quality defenders.
Still, he's got to be an improvement on the current shower of troute we have at the back. To be honest, just the one new centre half is not gonna be enough to challenge for the top four.
LVG obviously thinks otherwise. Who are we to argue?
But again, I don't see this is a massive expense that is going to make us worse in any way. It's a position that needed strengthening and sadly we don't have CL so we can't attract The Best of The Best of The Best. But again, hey, if he's considered one of the best two Argentinian centre backs he can't be all bad. Personally I'm one of the few that are happy with Smalling, Evans and (although he needs more work) Jones. I just feel we need more than three central defenders if we're going to be playing with three central defenders. Blackett and Keane might be good, but I think experience counts in this regard.
Our defence didn't lose us the top four spot last season. Out attack failed to get it in the first place.
Fergie thought Bebe, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, etc. were good too. Doesn't mean much. :p LVG is smarting at that loss and wants immediate action and that cretin Woodward is jumping through hoops to achieve it. By all accounts his #1 choice was Hummels though yeah, obviously not an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
You're looking at it the wrong way.Quote:
But again, I don't see this is a massive expense
Is £35m a lot for Andy Carroll?
Is £37m a lot for Juan Mata?
Would the same price be a lot for Cristiano Ronaldo?
The answers are of course "that is ridiculous", "probably overpaid a bit" and "smurfing bargain".
Just remember Southampton were the only other English team in for him, despite many top teams being after LBs and CBs. Speaks volumes.3 members of that defence have gone though. Players of that calibre or better should be recruited - and they've been available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
SAF also bought a lot of guys for minimal funds at the time (see: Vidic, Evra, Hernandez, Heinze, etc) who all turned out just fine. Big money players turn into big money flops, low money players turn into low money flops. This is football. However, for every flop, there is a success, too. I don't feel £16m is too much for a first team player, and if he turns out a success, fantastic, if not, we've not spent that much money on him anyway. We can only buy the players who are interested in a team without immediate CL football at the moment, unless we go to PSG/City levels and pay wages through the roof, which we're probably already doing to some extent. Again, though, LVG sees something in him, so I'll reserve judgement.
I got curious after my last post where I mentioned being pretty happy with Jones/Smalling/Evans overall, and went through the stats for the PL games they played in the central defence positions.
Rio & Vidic: 44% Win, 22% Draw, 33% Loss (0.89 goals conceded per game)
R/V & S/J/E: 33% Win, 22% Draw, 44% Loss (1.44 goals conceded per game)
S/J/E & S/J/E: 73% Win, 9% Draw, 18% Loss (0.82 goals conceded per game) - includes one game with Jones/Carrick in central defence.
Basically we played better without Rio & Vidic than when we played with them. Considering that the goals conceded aren't too different between Rio & Vidic playing and S/J/E combinations but the win ratio is much higher, that also says the attackers played better without Rio & Vidic being present.
EDIT: Continuing on that... conceded goals for individuals.
Rio: 15 goals in 12 games (1.25)
Vidic: 25 in 23 (1.09)
Evans: 19 in 14 (1.36)
Smalling: 7 in 10 (0.7)
Jones: 20 in 16 (1.25)
And...
Evans when with Rio/Vidic: 9 in 6 (1.5)
Evans without Rio/Vidic: 9 in 8 (1.13)
Smalling when with Rio/Vidic: 3 in 4 (0.75)
Smalling without Rio/Vidic: 4 in 6 (0.67)
Jones when with Rio/Vidic: 12 in 7 (1.71)
Jones without Rio/Vidic: 8 in 9 (0.89)
EDITRA: Attachment showing off just how often Moyes changed the CB's. Mental.
Attachment 59019
Only one of Liverpool's starting XI at the weekend cost more than £16m. (Lovren!)
How many of those players were purchased in today's market? :p Prices are going sky high these days, in case you haven't noticed. Also, United get a far bigger number given to them than Liverpool do because people know we need the players, have to buy and are facing slim pickings. Also, from what I'm hearing, Liverpool were pretty crap this weekend. :p Let's face it, United aren't going to be getting given a price tag of £10m for a first team player this transfer season. You know this and I know this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
EDIT: And check my previous post, I edited it. Those are some crazy statistics.
In the past 2 years: Mignolet, Coutinho, Sturridge and Manquillo. Three of those were internationals for top nations too. Not bad, eh? And pretty crap, well, no - not vintage, but not awful - but even if it was that's pretty crap with 3 points and pretty crap with Champions League football. :p #bantz aside, that's where United want to be, and that's the team United want to dislodge and the majority of the team was built outside of a CL budget, hence why I am using them as an example.
Either way, you can't keep saying "He's good enough for LVG..." not only because "Moyes is good enough for Fergie..." but also because then there's no point in forming an opinion on players at all. You're allowed to disagree with managers! At some point, a Manchester United manager thought every member of that squad was good enough. Evidently they are not.
Interesting stats indeed, but let's not forget that's five (Carrick aside) players for two positions. Now it's three for three. The quality is fine but depth is needed, and I reiterate that players above or equal to the quality of those that have departed is a necessity.
It's just endemic of United under Woodward though. All four (five if you count Rojo) of their big transfers under him they have been taken for a ride. There's probably an excess of £30-40m and that can buy 2 good players or even 1 world class player. With the CL money not there, it all adds up...
Haven't I stated twice now that I'm reserving judgement? I'm not so blind as to think that any random person LVG picks will be the best in the world. What I am saying is that if the manager feels he can do something with a player I don't know, then I can only assume he sees something in the guy, and given I know nothing about the player, I'm not going to assume he's going to be trout before I've seen him kick a ball.
Sturridge you got on a massive bargain and you bloody know it. :p There is no way we would have got him as cheap - if at all, considering he's a City boy.
EDIT: I'm pretty confident we have a hell of a lot more than £30-40m available, if that's what you meant. Whether or not we use it this season is another story.
Alright, let me put it another way.
Luke Shaw, £30m. Calum Chambers, £11m rising to a possible £16m based on performance.
Ander Herrera £29m, Toni Kroos, £24m.
Juan Mata £37m, Cesc Fabregas £30m.
Marouane Fellaini £27.5m, Mousa Dembele £15m.
I would also tell you that the players on the right are, in each instance, superior to the ones on the left.
Which brings me right back around to why I compared United to how Liverpool used to love to operate in the days of Aquilani, Carroll, Downing, etc. Sometimes still do, though this Summer has been alright. Only £25m Lallana raises an eyebrow, though English premium and all that, part of PFA team of the year and compared to the £29m uncapped Herrera it doesn't seem too bad. Still overpaid though but hey ho.Don't have a limitless pot of money either though. And with FFP, every pound has to count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
With Shaw, we were challenging Chelsea for him. We needed a left back. Chambers isn't that left back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
With Kroos, he went to Real Madrid. We probably couldn't compete if we had wanted to.
With Fabregas, smurf knows what happened. People are still scratching their heads. The only guess is that Woodwards ballsed it up (likely) or that Fabregas didn't fancy playing for Moyes (also possible) and now that we're out of the CL he remained uninterested. Mata for £37m is pretty much in line with the market. Fabregas for £30m is a bargain in today's market. I mean, how Chelsea pawned off Luiz for £50m and bought Fab for £30m is beyond me!
Fellaini was overpriced and nobody objects to that, but Dembele doesn't really interest me so I'm not really bothered.
Herrera doesn't worry me, honestly. I think he's a great player from what I've seen of him so far. Mata is doing well enough for us, too. The bigger issues are the wide players for United, the lack of teamwork and the lack of depth in central midfield. We also lack a world class star behind the strikeforce. It was Sterling and Suarez that got you into the CL... it remains to be seen if we have that special creative player that can push us into the CL as well. Time will tell, I'm sure.Quote:
Which brings me right back around to why I compared United to how Liverpool used to love to operate in the days of Aquilani, Carroll, Downing, etc. Sometimes still do, though this Summer has been alright. Only £25m Lallana raises an eyebrow, though English premium and all that, part of PFA team of the year and compared to the £29m uncapped Herrera it doesn't seem too bad.
EDIT: We might not have a limitless pot of money, but I'm confident we could shell out £50-70m if the right player or two were available and we felt it was the right price. As for FFP, United aren't even close to being in trouble there.
I'm not saying United should have signed those players - I'm saying here is a comparable player, here is the fee paid for him, why did you pay that fee? Two additional notes, Chelsea withdraw from Shaw because of his wage demands - nothing to do with being outbid. And Dembele is hax! Don't diss, blood. Definitely would've improved United's midfield last season in a way Fellaini couldn't.
Also this is tangential and not quite relevant but I want to say it anyway. At the risk of having people go "wtf" as someone who watched every one of Liverpool's games last season, I don't think it was Sterling or even Suarez that were the keys to the CL - I believe Jordan Henderson was the most important player in that team. Yes, really. Yes, even moreso than Suarez. As Rodgers said, "I knew the title was gone as soon as he was sent off vs City" and lo and behold, we ballsed it up against Chelsea and Palace without him. There's a lot more to football than being the one to stick it in the back of the net.
xD It's easy to say that, but then he could have Fellaini'd just like Fellaini did. Even Veron, Berba and Tevez can fail at United, and those are players who had decent seasons. Also, again, United always get given a high fee, it's nothing new. It's also common knowledge that Ed Woodward is trout at player transfers, just awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
If you didn't have Suarez last season you would not be in the CL. I genuinely believe this. *shrug* Perhaps the same could be said of Henderson, I dunno. But Suarez was worth at least 12 points to you.Quote:
Also this is tangential and not quite relevant but I want to say it anyway. At the risk of having people go "wtf" as someone who watched every one of Liverpool's games last season, I don't think it was Sterling or even Suarez that were the keys to the CL - I believe Jordan Henderson was the most important player in that team. Yes, really. Yes, even moreso than Suarez. As Rodgers said, "I knew the title was gone as soon as he was sent off vs City" and lo and behold, we ballsed it up against Chelsea and Palace without him. There's a lot more to football than being the one to stick it in the back of the net.
It's difficult to track points earned by running around a hell of a lot. But in terms of points earned by goals, Suarez was worth 15... but Sturridge was worth 18. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...is-Suarez.html He just got three this weekend too come to think of it.
Liverpool get 2nd, go on about Suarez being player of the year.
Liverpool sell Suarez, go on about how their other players are better.
At least when we sold Ronaldo we didn't kid ourselves that we'd not sold our best player. ;)
Never said he wasn't the best player, just that Henderson had a bigger impact on our system. Suarez is one of the top 5 players in the world imho and to be honest you'd be hard pushed for any of the current squad to make the top 50. That being said, as someone who watched every game I do insist that people who think we were a one man team don't know what they're talking about and aren't worth listening to, and having the best team doesn't necessarily mean having the best players (though it helps!). It amuses me that people think Liverpool are doomed without Suarez... oh no, how can we replace the player with the most Premier League goals last season? If only we had the player with the next most goals to replace him wi...
The bottom line is this, Man Utd as presently constituted are simply not good enough. They need to add starting Xi type players not just guys who can fill up the depth chart. Granted, they have been beset by injuries early on but that only speaks further to the need to reinforce.
Liverpool made a run at the title for many reasons, Suarez being one of the biggest. Hendo was vital because he allowed Stevie to not have to run around anymore and pick his spots, which at his age was beyond important. Not bad for someone with a strange gait, eh?
Suarez was clearly our best player, heck best in the league last year. However, it was pretty clear he was not a lifer for the squad. Rodgers is doing what most managers do, build up what he has now. Dwelling on the past leaves you stuck in it rather than pushing forward to the future.
Cesc already looks the steal of the year. Beyond me how so many passed on getting him for what is a ridiculously low price.
Take care all.
To be fair, I wasn't saying you're all doomed or anything. It was just a tangent on a tangent on a tangent of me saying "It was Sterling and Suarez that got you into the CL... it remains to be seen if United have that special creative player that can push us into the CL as well. Time will tell, I'm sure."
Everyone said that last year Moyes was the problem. We have LVG now - if he fails as well, it will be as good as saying "LVG isn't any better than Moyes" which I think we can all agree would be absurd. Fact is, Moyes was not the only problem we had last season and I think people are happily pointing that out now, Moyes included it seems. Honestly? I think we have a capable group of players to challenge for top four, absolutely. I think we need further strengthening in order to really solidify that challenge and turn us into leaders for the position. Title challenge? Honestly, just waaaaaaay too early to make any kind of serious call regarding the matter, but I personally don't expect it this season unless we buy Ronaldo himself, which isn't going to happen.
EDIT: Apparently Reus has turned down a significant paycheck opportunity at United. As much as I'm gutted he hasn't joined, you do have to admire a player who consistently rejects big money moves (after he quite publically turned down similar big money to join Bayern last season).
Well honestly, United had a great reign under Ferguson- that wasn't gonna last forever. It seems that the team is still suffering the after effects after he stepped down and it's not gonna be easy to climb up back again. It's no accident that the last EPL title that Utd got, they got it with many of the "mediocre" players (Smalling, Evans, Young etc) that play right now that are getting the stick; idk, somehow sir Alex (as much as I dreaded him, being a Gooner, huge respect to the guy, top manager) got the best out of them. It seems to be more of a psychological factor, you ask me.
About my team right now, damn do we look tired and not as sharp as we should be- yes, the hangover from the WC and such, but still. That game against Besiktas tonight was so, so poor. We need a CDM and a top striker. (backup CB is nearly already announced so) I don't even wanna think what's gonna happen if we fail to qualify for CL.
This is definitely the case and will probably take the longest to fix.Quote:
Originally Posted by supernaps
I think we have a bit of a fear playing at Old Trafford as well. There is a complete lack of confidence when we walk out at home. It's no surprise when you think we lost seven games at home in the league all last year. Not to mention losing there to Swansea in the FA Cup and then to Sunderland on penalties in the league cup. I'm actually quite glad our next two games are away from home. Our away record last season was much better. Still doesn't mean we'll win though.
Anyway, at least I'll get to watch what will hopefully be a decent game on Monday night. Early test for Liverpool to see how serious they are for a title challenge. Though admittedly it is very difficult to get a result at the Etihad. Should be a tasty encounter though.
Could it be? Super Mario to Liverpool? We certaiy love our drama filled strikers.
Take care all.
Brendan Rodgers specifically said that would not happen. Just the usual media click bait.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28878088Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Well shut my mouth.
Yes smurfing please. :D :D :D :D :D
this i would like
Also in further Man United-are-turning-into-Liverpool news, what the smurf is Paul Scholes's problem? xD Like, you used to get queues of Liverpool legends lining up to take a swing at how rubbish the club now is. Paul Scholes is now a one man United-hating band which is funny as he was always so quiet as a player.
He's not hating, he's just acting like any fan would. We often criticise certain players and whatnot. Not sure if you saw during the match, but Scholes, even when we were 2-1 down, was still looking at the match saying he felt confident United could win it. He's definitely getting a case of the media on him, despite him joining the media. He can say 50 quotes and the rest of the media will latch onto the criticisms and let fly with them. Scholes, being Scholes, probably just doesn't care what the media do and shrugs it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
It's like when he was commenting on Rooney earlier in the year. In that same report, he said that Rooney has all the skills required to replace Scholes himself. I would call that high praise. But all the negative comments made headlines and that one was shuffled under the rug.
EDIT: Also, regardless of which team he plays for, really happy that Mario is coming back into the PL. Guy is entertainment without having to be a dick.
So now not only are Cardiff run by a(nother) dodgy eastern despot, they also employ racists, sexists and homophobes! All they need now is for their youth coach to turn out to be a paedophile, and we've got a full house!
Cardiff texts were absolutely shockingly bad. Funny (seriously, what even is a "gay snake"?) but damn, no coming back from that.
I'm giddy like I'm waiting for Christmas. Mario, at Liverpool. :D I said a year or so ago my dream front three was Suarez, Mario and Zlatan. (so well known I can use their first names) Getting to see two of them play for my team is awesome. And hey, maybe in a couple of years Zlatan could finish his career here!
When one snake loves another snake very much, and they are both of the same sex, then...Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
lol i'm not gonna lie, "gay snake" made me lol irl when i read it on the football news
anyways, on the transfer front we all know that super mario is quality, but he's such a wild card- i'm happy to see him back in EPL though, he provides entertainment on many aspects of the game.
we are linked with cavani rn, man if we could get him, that would be a game changer. (along with a proper CDM)
Has anyone else noticed the interestingly biased advertising BT Sport has been running lately? I've googled some of the reactions by Arsenal fans, it's pretty funny!
Yeah I think we talked about it earlier in the thread. As I said then, it's not anti-Arsenal. They were two truly shocking, exciting and dramatic days so of course you're going to show those as an advertisement for your product. Arsenal just happened to be the ones getting their arses handed to them. I don't really know what their fans expect - a Stalinist revision of history where we pretend that didn't happen? May as well just abolish the month of February while you're at it.
Also EoFF's very own Loony BoB quits his job to start a Man United Twitter account: http://footballburp.com/magazine/the...itter-account/
Wow.
Obviously BT Sport was getting in early this season belittling charliepanayi.
EDIT: Just realised I've already made this joke
I think for Arsenal's sake, showing another team getting thrashed would calm them down abit :p
No other big teams did get thrashed though. Well. I guess Liverpool did beast Spurs home and away.
smurf arsenal, horribly self entitled bunch of :bou::bou::bou::bou:s, every teeny tiny bit of misery and pain they feel is utterly deserved and every effort should be made to ensure they never forget that they are the worst :bou::bou::bou::bou:s in world football.
speaking of, Vincent Tan is a genius, properly shafted malky mackay over and in the sweetest way. what a great man.
desperately hoping the Super Mario deal goes through. I have no idea what Liverpool are playing at trying to ruin everything by demanding contract clauses about behaviour. Super Mario has never been one to do anything vastly over the top, at least not as far as on the football field is concerned. And they absolutely need a guy like him. Don't smurf it up, just bring back the beloved hero for us to all enjoy.
It's cool dude. Whatever we proposed (smurf knows why, just let him do what he wants) he has agreed to it. Presently airborne and going to get a medical. :excited:
Harry 'clean as a whistle' Redknapp sure knows when to jump in and make things a hundred times worse than it already is for the people he is trying to defend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosie
Don't worry, Malky is a "proper football man" so he can do whatever he wants. I still don't know what being a "proper football man" means but given that it's usually used in relation to 'arry himself or Tim Sherwood I assume it's a synonym for moron.
I know we have 6-7 of our first choice starters injured or unable to start, but this is just embarrassing. Fletcher and Cleverley I hoped would get better under LVG. They genuinely appear to have been better under both SAF & Moyes. Mata/Rooney/RVP barely making runs, Mata barely rejoining midfield, Cleverley (mis)defending outside our box when we're supposed to be playing with five defenders... how is this happening? So, so dire. Really not sure if this 3-5-2 is going to have time to work out here, we'll be too far from top four by the time our players click at this rate.
Still, hopefully the addition of Evans, Rojo, Shaw, Rafael, Carrick, Herrera and potentially Di Maria will make things considerably more watchable. Hell, even Fellaini...
Di Maria is a world class player but surely the problem isn't in attack? You can attack as much as you want but when you have a double pivot of Fletcher and Cleverley in front of a defence containing random kids like Keane and Blackett you'll always be have a brittle core. If they get Khedira too that'll go some way to solving that problem though. The jury is out on Rojo and I'm not convinced Herrera is mobile enough to be a holding midfielder by himself.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I also think the rumoured £48-60m (depending on your source!) fee is a little steep for a wantaway player and surely the £38m Sanchez/Ozil fees are more of a benchmark? Also can't see where you'd put Di Maria in a 3-5-2 (though maybe at No. 10 with Mata making way?) which suggests to me you're going to see 3-4-3 but then that only leaves one spot in your forward line for Rooney/Mata, and that's out of position on the left. Either way, I'm assuming with Mata in the form he is in it will be him being benched, and that means a smurfton of cash will have been spent on a sub. Intriguing though.
I can't believe we've actually reached the point where £60M+ transfer fees are commonplace. It's not even like Di Maria is even that amazing. Besides, it's the defence that is League 1 standard at the moment (and I know what they look like), not Mata.
That's a bit harsh mate, Phil Jones could do well for a promotion-chasing Championship team or someone like Burnley or Crystal Palace.
Our problem is in central midfield and on the wings, while we lack depth in defence. Read my earlier post about how good Smalling/Evans/Jones are - to summarise, it was never defence that was our problem last season, and when it was our problem, it was involving Rio/Vidic more often than Smalling/Evans/Jones.
Our problem was being unable to score more than the opposition. The creativity is a key area in our side when you look at what you're missing, along with authority in midfield. Now, Di Maria is a creative player and I'm fine with whatever we've paid for him. Why? Because of how little we've spent in the past ten seasons combined. We're spending big now because we didn't spend big back then. As for not being worth it and not being all that great, I didn't watch too much of Real Madrid last season but everyone and their uncle seems to be saying Di Maria is one of their best players, their engine, the man of the match in the final of the CL, made more assists and more key passes than any other player in La Liga last season... I'm just failing to see how he isn't considered world class here. £60m is what you pay in order to get Real Madrid's engine? So be it.
Back to our weakness, it is definitely now in the centre of the pitch. I'm still holding out hope that we'll get someone in. As for formation, not worried. Honestly? Di Maria sounds like he'll be a step up from Rooney, RVP or Mata. I am fine with any of them being benched if it means we're more likely to win. Also, Real Madrid played 4-3-3 last season with Di Maria making up one of the midfield three. No idea what that means for where he'll play at United, but I imagine that he can play in more than one formation.
EDIT: To my knowledge, Herrera is not a holding midfielder at all, Psy. He's a mobile player, box to box, but is better with someone playing behind him. He's a "#8" if that means anything to you.
Oh there's no doubt Di Maria is world class and better than anyone United has. Just that so are Ozil and Sanchez, and I'd put him in that bracket, and they didn't cost anywhere near as much. As I keep saying, United are being taken for mugs by other teams and I'm still not convinced that it's the best way to go.
Also it's funny we can say #8, #9 or #10 and know what we mean when players now have numbers in the 40's and 50's :D Liverpool's new signing Lazar Markovic is #50. Players used to drop down to FIrst XI numbers when they moved through the youth team ranks but now they're keeping their high ones. I kind of hate it. It seems petty but I do.
Name a player that Real Madrid have wanted to keep that has gone for less in recent seasons. Pretty much the price range you deal with. Hell, it'd take £100m for Ronaldo, probably... but for a world class player, when you're a club that is loaded, you have to pay the premium. It sucks, but it seems like that's how we have to go unless we keep looking for Hernandez-esque deals. I mean, £16m for Rojo seems pretty much like pocket change now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I already did name one, Mesut Ozil. Di Maria is just this year's Mesut Ozil. They helped fund a move for the latest new shiny toy (James Rodriguez/Bale respectively). Yes, they wanted to keep Ozil as much as they did Di Maria - indeed Ozil didn't agitate for a move, unlike Di Maria. Do alarm bells not ring that they got Rodriguez for around the same as you're getting Di Maria?
I think United have now overpaid £50-60m in the past 12 months.No, they just see you coming a mile away. United are desperate and people are taking them for a ride.Quote:
when you're a club that is loaded, you have to pay the premium.
Doesn't matter. Still overpaid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
From all accounts I'm hearing, Di Maria is better than Ozil. But that's the media, so hey, maybe I'm wrong.
Di Maria is way more proven than Rodriguez is. xD
Either way, this is the market we have to work with. I don't think we'd have got the players for less. There aren't nearly as many bargains to get out there as you might think, especially when we are the ones forcing the moves.
Also, if Ozil didn't agitate for a move, then Real wanted to sell. You can't say Real didn't want to sell and Ozil didn't want to go and then say they sold him. Real Madrid aren't even under FFP investigation. Everyone knows they're immune. They have no need to sell unless they want to sell.
Seriously, we have to pay a premium, anyone who thinks we don't is an idiot. I'm not saying a better negotiator wouldn't chop £5m off Di Maria's price, but I am saying that we're in a situation where we the seller knows we need players and we don't have the luxury of a wide array of options. I'm confident we're still backing out of deals because we're baulking at the price (see: Hummels, possibly Vidal although personally I'd pay £50m for him, but I don't know if his knee is causing issue) and I'm sure we are saying "Look, we can go to another side and get a player for £5m less" and they are saying "so do it" rather than negotiating. There is a price set for the players we are after and it is high.
In their last respective full seasons at Madrid: Ozil 9 goals, 14 assists. ADM's last season at Madrid, 4 goals 17 assists. Indeed, Di Maria played more games than Ozil did too. So no, Di Maria is not better and I can only assume it's Man United fans clutching at straws who are your accounts. Even if I take your argument that Di Maria is better, the question isn't "Which player is better?" it's "Is Di Maria £20m better than Mesut Ozil?" (He isn't)
And yeah Di Maria is more proven than Rodriguez is. But then... why would Real Madrid sell a better player in Di Maria to buy an inferior player in Rodriguez? 'cause Di Maria is yesterday's news. Two equally gifted footballers, but only one can shift shirts. Who is worth more? Rodriguez is valued more, and that's what I'm driving at here. He's worth more but you paid the same.
No, United don't have to pay a premium. Yes, they're asked for a premium in many cases but they're mugs if they choose to pay it. I have repeatedly drawn comparison to MUFC and LFC so let's do that again. When LFC fell out of the CL, the club thought it had to pay a premium and so spent £Embarassing on players like Carroll and Downing. Now, while United has a larger budget than Liverpool usually, I am sure we can agree that this Summer, everyone knows Liverpool are smurfing rolling in it following the Suarez sale and the return of CL football - more than £100m is available that wasn't last season. So surely that means people want to take all of the moneys? Well, we just paid £12m for a Spanish international left back despite his club wanting £20m. Compare that to United who paid £30m for an English international left back. Indeed, Milan wanted £30m (seriously) for Balotelli at the start of the Summer and now it's £16m. There's value out there if you're not going to be a smurfing mug about it.
£5m knocked off? Try £20m. Oh, and I don't know about Vidal but Hummels doesn't want to touch Man United.
We'll never know with Hummels, he made no noise either way. To make no noise at all tends to nudge towards "is interested". Vidal was supposedly interested but also doesn't mind staying with Juventus (doesn't want to break the bond he has with Juventus fans by asking to leave).
As for prices, well, United only spent £4m for an international defender than you did. These things happen. You also spent a lot of cash for many players over the years as you've pointed out. So do all clubs in the end. You can look at the Torres/Carroll deals and call them flops, but what if they had worked out similar to how Ronaldo worked out for Real Madrid? They could have been steals. Yes, I consider the Ronaldo sale a steal for Real Madrid. Wish we'd sold him for more! I consider Rio at £30m a steal for us. But I digress, the only thing that can justify a price in the end is what happens after the buy, so we'll all just have to wait and see, and for our own teams, just hope it works out.
I do see £16m as reasonable for Rojo. I can see Di Maria at £56m-73m (the numbers are going up and down like crazy) being justified given we needed a world class talent and he was one of the only ones available that was willing to head to a CL-less team. Herrera and Shaw are similar for me to Di Maria in that I'll need to wait and see.
Overall we'll just have to disagree regarding what prices can and can not be obtained.
Those are your champions right there. As much of a cliche as it is, Jovetic is like a new signing and is incredibly good. Have not seen a team do that to Liverpool in a long time. Phenomenal team.
Was the game as even as the stats (goals aside, obviously) suggest? Because the first thing I checked was possession & shots etc. and Liverpool equalled them in possession and got more shots in (admittedly less on target), so your post suggesting domination by City leaves me wondering.
The stage is set for based Balotelli.
The title is City's to lose I think, it's only really Chelsea who can mount any sort of challenge and I don't think it'll be a close one.
On a slightly related subject Bet 365 gave great odds on a City win last night at 1.85, that was easy money made.
smurf me, MK Dons are balls deep in Man United. It's not just the kids, there have been seven full internationals playing for United tonight. What the trout is going on? Even Moyes did well in the Carling Cup. I can't even mock at this point. Reading RedCafe makes me feel slightly sad rather than gleeful.
THIS NEVER HAPPENED. :shifty:
But seriously, bloody hell, I wonder how long LVG is gonna take to get this 3-5-2 thing working. It's horrible. How this is supposed to be better than 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 with crappy wingers is beyond me.
EDIT: Just to rub salt in the wounds, Macheda scored twice tonight. What the hell. xD
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footba...-shock-4113565
From bad to worse. I can mock again now: lmao.
PS: Make it £25m Woodward and we have a deal. Actually, better make it £30m - after all, unlike Herrera at least he's an international. Throw in De Gea too while you're at it.
i don't even have a reaction image
To be fair, Allen is better than a few of our midfielders, easily. But I would be stunned if this was a real thing being considered. No chance. See: Heinze. Only in that case it was because Heinze and his agent were an idiot. I really would be surprised if this were anything but a journo looking for a sensational headline. But then, I suppose we've been surprised before.
Over at the Caf, it hasn't even warranted a transfer thread. Methinks if someone did make the thread, it'd end up closed pretty quickly. :lol:
Wait, Daniel, you're a RedCafe user? Like, not in an ironic "Ha ha ha look at all of these crazy people" kind of a way? Christ alive. Come on mate. They're utterly bonkers.
In my experience, every single football forum I've visited is pretty much the same. I need to have some United forum to go to, and I went to RedCafe when United Rant died (I think it's back, haven't checked for ages). I'm more of a reader than a poster, mostly in the Twitter Discussion thread and particular transfer threads, but yeah, I'm there.
A bunch of them are indeed nutters but it's easy to filter that stuff out and focus on the gold you can find amongst the drivel.
There are pros and cons to them compared to United Rant. At United Rant, they tend to be way more vulgar at every opportunity, and I couldn't browse the place at work for REASONS. However, as stereotypically blokish as they might be, they definitely appreciated my statistical analysis of things far, far more than they do at the Caf. At United Rant I was renamed Martin Tyler for a while. :p
This is only the beginning. You just wait 'til you've had years of never living up to what your team used to achieve. Liverpool fans of that era are the absolute god damn worst. It's insane. They're insane. Every single Liverpool player and new signing is awful and not good enough yet we're going to win the league somehow regardless.
I hope the Swans have a sell-on clause embedded in the paperwork. I'm sure good old Brendan would have sorted us out with a solid 15%.
I'm sure you've been called worse...Quote:
At United Rant I was renamed Martin Tyler for a while.
Yeah, that's where my filter tends to kick in. Although with the revenue we are getting, we should be seriously competing for top four every season. There's no way out of that, that's why we have the revenue in the first place. It's too early to say what will happen in the next five or so years though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Out of curiosity, do you post on any forums out there?
EDIT: Meanwhile, Eto'o at Everton. With a #5 shirt. :stare: Think he'll do okay?
Milton Keynes 4-0 Manchester United
I smell a new BT Sport advert!
Caught this on Twitter, laughed out loud.
Same troubles. Different bib. Always Balotelli.
City and Liverpool looked really good the other night, I thought. Though I may have been comparing it to our game against Sunderland which was smurfing awful. Hoping we can get used to this formation (Van Gaal won't change it) sooner rather than later. I hate the way we look playing it. There's no cutting edge and it just looks ridiculously easy to defend against. I can already see how Burnley are gonna set up on Saturday and it'll be boring as hell again.
Also, I don't think Liverpool have made a good move opting for Balotelli, but I'm sure glad to see him back :D
It continues to amaze me how tried and tested duff players like James Milner and Phil Jones walk into the England squad. Then I remember there really isn't anybody else. At least the selectors have realised their errors and stopped picking Chris Smalling, as well as finally jettisoning Gareth 'the most average player in football' Barry. I think all four of those would only just about get into the Wales squad.
Yeah if being a bit rubbish discounted you from being called up for England we'd struggle to put together a first XI. Also after his abysmal World Cup showing Rooney should not be captain. Lord knows he can't be dropped now.
jesus christ what the trout is with city attracting champions league groups of death, this is beyond vile xD chelsea get a cake walk, liverpool should be able to qualify with ease. this is BULLtrout
smurf yes, Madrid. So excited for it. I remember the last time we played them 5 years ago now. Beat them in Spain 1-0 thanks to a Yossi Benayoun header of all things. The Madrid press were all confident that they'd have us "This is Anfield - So What?" was the famous headline. 4-0. Four smurfing nil. That's what, pendejos. :) Then we did Man United 4-1 in the same week. ...and bizarrely, Andrea Dossena scored in both games.
Not that I think we'll hammer Madrid 4-0 again! We'll probably lose but I really don't mind. The atmosphere will be so intense. I've missed it. The CL anthem and the 5 times patch on the sleeve and all the banners on the Kop. smurf yeah.Dunno about that. Excluding the obvious, Basel are a pretty decent god damn team themselves. They had Chelsea's ass last season don't forget.Quote:
Originally Posted by DK
fair one, will swap you basel for roma.
cska is going to be a pain in the arse as well. mind you, bayern, pff, will smash them. I'm entirely confident we will top this group. :colbert:
They did us in pre-season so no thanks. Swap you Bayern for Ludogrets. Not about winning for me, I want some god damn glamour ties. Plus Xabi. :love:
:crying::crying:Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
xD They actually plastered that onto the official ManUtd Twitter and all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis van Gaal on Burnley clash
What's wrong with that?
Just like United last season! (SPOILER)Minus the passion
And the fantastic atmosphere. Well, unless you count a plane as a fantastic atmosphere.
Siggy is absolutely bossing it this season. Such a player. Also THE RETURN OF NATHAN DYER
EDIT: also louis van lel
Oooooh shizzle Diego Costa must have had an extra special helping of horse placenta this time round
Doing a Spurs? More like just straight up doing Spurs :smug:
Fabregas may be signing of the year but Moreno could be the 2nd best. Just immense.
Take care all.
Manchester United confirmed for buying (SPOILER)6th place
Strange move picking up Falcao on loan. Don't you guys need more midfield and defensive help than attack?
Take care all.
I have no idea what the thinking is behind that. Great player obviously but I just don't get it. Maybe Van Gaal hasn't been convinced by Mata (even though he's scored like 7 goals in 9 games) so he's gonna play Falcao and Van Persie up front with Rooney in behind. I have no idea.
All I know is that it still doesn't solve any of our problems at the back or in midfield. Looking forward to see whether Blind and Rojo can have a positive impact.
I'm not convinced by Rooney and Van Persie myself and think they trade in on the value of their names and what they did two years ago. Don't get me wrong, I'd probably still just about have them in the top 10 strikers in the Premiership, but on present form there's a fair few better than they are in the league. Falcao is a definite upgrade on both.
United seem to be taking the Liverpool approach of "Defence? lol. You can score 5 goals against us if you want but we'll just go and get 6 anyway!" can't wait for Liverpool v United, it's going to be stupidly fun.
Anyone who's following the BBC text feed (which you all should be if you're at work) will have seen it, but I think it's quite funny. Luke Shaw could probably make a decent winger but I don't think Januzaj really has the build to be a prop...
Attachment 59431
Yeah, I liked that one. Suspect we'll see some rotation with Mata and RVP being the ones to miss out, and Januzaj's development being stunted which is nice. United do need strength in depth for all two of the competitions they're playing in this season after all.
the one thing i hate about following auntie beebs deadline day commentary is the masses of speculation about big deals and then virtually every DONE DEAL is like "Arthur Rees confirmed signing for Twatt Athletic, he'll slot in just above the midfield". It's very frustrating.
The thing I hate is the played out joke of: I just saw Arthur Rees canoeing up the river Avon, could a move to Tittensor Town be on the cards???
Just stop.
It stopped being funny or clever five years ago, if it even was funny or clever at all. The same old tired joke again and again. It's embarassing. Yes Beeb I know sometimes there's a lull in deadline day activity sometimes and your live bloggers have to do something but for the love of God, no more.
Can't really see the reasoning behind the deal either, but who wouldn't take him? :D Exciting times.
I'd say RVP will miss out. Is he even fully fit? This would still be a failure of a transfer window if we don't sign a good CB.
I suppose with Hernandez gone and Welbeck likely to leave too then we're going to need the cover. Pretty good cover too!
I'd still like to see a couple more signings. I'm a little bit miffed we're leaving it till deadline day again considering the shambles of last season. If we do any more business then we're certain to pay over the odds.
I can't believe the amount of money we've spent. Pressure is really gonna be on now to perform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by friend of mine
United giving Welbeck to Arsenal may be something they live to regret. While Welbeck isn't as good as any of United's other strikers, he's still going to be the best Arsenal have until 2015. That might just be enough to secure 4th.
Doesn't look like we'll be getting that midfielder I had hoped we'd be getting. Falcao is interesting, and I think it would indeed be to compete with RVP more than Rooney. I think we once again have the players for a 4-4-2 now, and I think I'd prefer we switch to that, but I'm guessing 4-3-3 or the current (horrid) 3-5-2 will be retained. Really hope Blind does great with us, I'm actually more excited for his signing than that of Falcao.
This I certainly agree with. Looks like it might not happen now, but it's my biggest worry for these last few hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Like you say, Welbeck is defiantly 4th in our list of strikers, but there is a real chance that we could be fighting Arsenal for 4th by the end of the season, and giving a possible direct rival something they really need does not seem like a smart move. I'd rather he went to Spurs.
You'd get battered. United don't have a box-to-box midfielder of the quality and mobility required to play a standard 4-4-2 with wingers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Not to mention the complete lack of a quality defender, Shaw and Rojo aren't going to cut it no matter how many millions-worth of talent you put in front of them.
We've got better midfielders than we had last season, Herrera is a box to box midfielder more so than the midfielders we had last season and we didn't get battered last season. We just kept losing by one goal, or getting draws. I think we have the players suited to a 4-4-2 more than a 4-3-3 personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticYou'd get battered. United don't have a box-to-box midfielder of the quality and mobility required to play a standard 4-4-2 with wingers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
As for quality defenders, I don't know how many times I'll have to point it out but it was Vidic and Rio that were letting us down last season, not the young ones.
Sure, you can have sterile domination against the small teams but you got battered against the big boys. http://www.zonalmarking.net/2014/03/...ol-win-easily/
Not posted to gloat, but to provide a perfect example - and hey, it agrees with what you said to ADX about the defence too! 4-4-2 is an old fashioned formation that works well if you have the right midfielders. And I mean Yaya Toure or Cesc Fabregas quality. Steven Gerrard of 10 years ago. Roy Keane of 15 years ago. Herrera, from what I've seen, does not have the mobility to do that job.
Better off with 4-3-3 or your own diamond.
FALCAO!!!!
Attachment 59445
Would like to revise this somewhat now that transfers are done. Swap Hull and West Ham, that seems right! And Arsenal and United. Swap them too. Gotta stick with my Foxes munching on Swans prediction no matter what though! Foxes done really well so far. Had a horrible set of opening fixtures and to come out of them with 2 points is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Methinks you may not have seen much of Herrera, but we'll have to wait and see regarding that. When I was watching him in pre-season, he just didn't stop moving, he was non-stop, and not a slouch either when it comes to speed. Also, diamond to me is just a diffferent kind of 4-4-2. Perhaps that's a result of me playing too much FM, but they are technically both "four in defence, four in midfield, two up front" formations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
As for not having the right midfielders: Thing is, we don't have the right midfielders for 4-3-3 or 3-5-2, either. Simply put, our midfield isn't world class yet. Still, better than it was last season, so...
I know we got battered by the top sides last season, but it wasn't the losses against the top sides that cost us a CL place, it was the loss of points against lower sides. If you can't beat the lower teams, you'll never beat the top teams. Let's not try to run before we can walk. As for helping AX's point, actually I would say it helps mine just as much: All those batterings took place with Rio and/or Vidic in the team.
Diamond is two CMs, a DM and an AM. Standard 4-4-2 is LM, RM and usually two CMs (you could theoretically have a DM or whatever in there but we're splitting hairs). To show you the difference, if you look again at the Liverpool formation, you can't really say Allen and Henderson are wingers - they both play fairly centrally. In a diamond you're relying on your full backs for width, or a striker or your 10 drifting wide.
Also perhaps, but let's note that 4-3-3 and 3-5-2 doesn't require your central 3 to be as good as your central 2 in a 4-4-2, owing directly to the numbers game.
Also also, I SAID it helped your point you Borini xD It straight up called out Vidic on smurfing up which agrees with what you said :aimkiss:
I agree with you on Rio and Vidic though, top quality defenders (which neither have been for some time) were needed at least a year ago and Moyes not doing anything about it was one of many things that cost him his job. I'm quite surprised van Gaal hasn't done much about it either.
But yeah a diamond formation would make sense, at the risk of sounding like a manager because I've put too many hours into FM myself someone in both the holding role and attacking midfield would benefit the defence rather than having one player trying the box-to-box idea - as we've established you don't have anyone capable of that currently in the team.
Yeah, like I said, it's just the FM player in me. I just play "count the midfielders", because that's what FM does. You can have a lot of different 4-4-2's in that game. =]Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Depends, really. I would say that the 3-5-2 has shown us just how bad our midfield are, compared to last season where we still managed to get by. But then, I've yet to really see 3-5-2 with United players that genuinely understand 3-5-2. :shobon: Perhaps it will grow on me once our players are settled into it, but I just really miss three at the back. 3-5-2 also probably works a lot better when you have actual wingbacks. Valencia is alright, but Young is just so freaking bad in defence. He can concede fouls as a winger, but conceding fouls as a wingback is a recipe for free kick practice for the opposition. Also, Touré and Febregas are hardly box to box these days. Both are attacking midfielders.Quote:
Also perhaps, but let's note that 4-3-3 and 3-5-2 doesn't require your central 3 to be as good as your central 2 in a 4-4-2, owing directly to the numbers game.
Ohhhh, sorry. Misread.Quote:
Also also, I SAID it helped your point you Borini xD It straight up called out Vidic on smurfing up which agrees with what you said :aimkiss:
EDIT: Genuinely unsure where you guys are getting this information regarding Herrera being incapable of playing box to box. I wasn't aware you guys had watched him play loads of games? I mean, even WhoScored seem to write out his strengths as defence + attack (actually his defensive contribution tends to be high). Every game he played in pre-season he was running around like a madman, tackling, passing, shooting, the works. Dropped deep, loves to tackle, harried opposition, chased down the ball, tackled, got ball, ran with the ball, made passes, occasionally shot, etc.
UPDATED SEASON PREDICTIONS POST WINDOW (With gap in levels between teams):
1. Chelsea
2. Man City
3. Liverpool
4. Arsenal
5. Everton
6. Man Utd
7. Spurs
8. Swansea
9. Hull
10. Newcastle
11. Sunderland
12. Stoke
13. Aston Villa
14. West Ham
15. Southampton
16. QPR
17. Leicester
18. Burnley
19. WBA
20. Palace
Chelsea just look scary good this year. If they are actually going to score like this and still play the usual Jose D they will run away with the title. A fantastic window too, tidy and got everything they needed early.
Still don't think Utd did enough. They bought big names but not where they needed it. Their D is going to be their undoing this year. Blind will be good but he's not the defensive addition they really needed either. Vidal or Pogba would have been ideal. Maybe, MAYBE they can push for 4th but I think Arsenal are a better squad with a more complete team. Thank God they signed another striker. Otherwise I think Gooners would have jumped off a bridge.
Everton have had a lot of tough luck but I don't think they are nearly as bad as they've shown so far. I thought Hull had a great window as did Swans.
As for Liverpool, if the Valdes signing does happen, I don't think we could have asked for more. Every hole was filled and we have depth everywhere. In the near future I could see us adding another good central mid as Stevie gets phased out but I think we're primed to contend all season long.
Also, one final note, which I know Paul will agree 100%: I LOVE Xabi Alonso. He spurned the chance to return to the EPL because the offers were from Liverpool rivals and instead opted to remain a Kop idol AND gets to play on another great squad that I think will use him well. Just pure class and I think Munich got a real steal as well for their season.
Now, FINALLY, the season can be about football.
Take care all.
Xabi Alonso is callous and cruel and he should be killed. I saw him kick a dog once.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
Xabi Alonso is, without doubt, one of the most beautiful men in world football in both body (THAT BEARD :flirt:), personality and the silky way he plays football. :love:
The dog was probably a United or Everton fan so Xabi knew it needed a kick.Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaXabi Alonso is callous and cruel and he should be killed. I saw him kick a dog once.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
Seriously though, it seems quite rare for a player to actually take rivalries in to consideration when plotting their transfers. The fact that he actually mentioned it in his reasoning is quite lovely for fans who live and die by their squads.
Take care all.
I can't think of any players in the modern game that have played for Liverpool AND Manchester United outside of Owen, and I don't doubt that many more would have if they weren't rivals. Heinze was close, but he later stated that he was an idiot or something for doing such a thing. I'm guessing Psy can think of a few more.
Predicting Falcao as this season's Torres. Already saved for later.
Also
http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-conten...l_idi_amin.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
Since the Premiership began Paul Ince is the only other one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
I just thought it was interesting that Xabi actually mentioned the rivalry as a reason for not coming back to England. Few players actually take the time to mention such things.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticSince the Premiership began Paul Ince is the only other one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
And beyond the top 7, Swans are about as good as any, so I could definitely see them finishing there. They've looked a very together side thus far.
Take care all.
I wrote Swansea off at the beginning of the season, and although we're only three games in they're looking good. Gary Monk has a decent group of players and they all seem to respect him and want to play well for him, there are currently very few managers who can command that outside of Mourinho, Sean Dyche and Gus Poyet in the Premiership.
It's definitely a trait that makes up for the lack of experience he and the latter two have at that level, and because of that a top 8 finish is a real possibility for Swansea.
Yeah, I can see Swansea being last season's Southampton. Hopefully they can keep a few more of their players than the Saints did, though, should they do well.
Swansea lost a lot more players than Southampton did. De Guzman, Michu, Vorm, Chico Flores, Davies, Hernandez etc. The media narrative hasn't really focused on that because they didn't go for £stupid to huge clubs like the likes of Shaw, Lallana and Lovren did, so if anything Swansea have had it harder. They've made some good signings though.
Southampton have made some good signings too like Pelle and Tadic, and they've held onto some great players like Schneiderlein and Wanyama, and there's still plenty of exciting young English talent like Clyne and Ward-Prowse there. Southampton will be last year's Southampton. They're in nowhere near as in bad shape as the media would have you believe.
I just can't shake the feeling that the Saints are going to drop down the table from last season while the Swans will rise. Of course, I'll probably be quoted at the end of the season by Manus for all I know.
You're all being quoted. :colbert: The Swans may have won their first three games against average to poor opposition (SPOILER)(i'll leave you guess which :aimkiss:) but I fully expect them to return to form and start throwing away points within the next few weeks. Our defence is even more of a shambles this season than it was last season. There doesn't seem to be a plan B in the squad and teams will work us out eventually. I will be very pleased with our season if we can make 11th again.
Swansea finishing 8th or higher is about as likely as a Bee Gees reunion.
Don't quote me in that context chum, I've been saying for years you're utterly bobbins and (Insert British city here) City FC will finish above you. :flirt:
In fact, calling it now, Swansea be the last placed "City" team in the league. Quote it. Quote it good. I'm feeling a bit confident now that Hull have made some tasty last minute signings.
To be fair, that's a pretty safe bet for every team bar Chelsea. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Well...well...Liverpool will be the lowest ranked pool in the league. :doublecolbert:Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I think it's a sad state of affairs for English football that there are no Rovers, Town or Wanderers teams in the top flight. No Athletics even! And just where have all the Wednesdays gone?
It's Wednesday right now!
When I was 6, I invented a Sheffield Wednesday joke. My brother's best friend (at the grand old age of 8) was a Sheffield Wednesday fan and thus was the only recipient of this whimsical piece of humour from a blossoming comedian who would later go on to win over a dozen Funniest Member Ciddies.
Q: Why are Sheffield Wednesday called Sheffield Wednesday?
A: Because they always play on Wednesdays!
:hahaha:
To my 6 year old brain, this was genius.
Best. Joke. Ever.
That's even funnier than paying £35M for Andy Carroll.
Here's one you might not have heard.
http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/...8/carramug.jpg
I hear it had a different punchline for the past 20 or so years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
And they say it's Liverpool fans always banging on about history...
I only ever think of England when I think of "banging on about history". :p
top quality #bants from our resident bantz brothers Psybantic and Loony Bant.
And on that subject of England, Roy Hodgson is a moron.
"I play 4-4-2 and am not interested in your buzz formations blah blah bloop I'm an owl"
Newsflash Roy, none of the top teams play 4-4-2. Arsenal don't, Chelsea don't, Liverpool don't, United don't, Spurs don't, Everton don't. Man City occasionally do admittedly, but even this season has been more of a 4-2-3-1 with Jovetic playing as a 10. The argument for 4-4-2 for England has always seemed to be "It's what the players know best". Not anymore it isn't. It's a rubbish and out-dated formation that every decent manager consigned to the bin a long time ago.
No I don't care if it works on Football Manager :colbert:
No wonder nobody wants to watch England. I sure as hell don't watch to watch more turgid 4-4-2 hoofball that's for sure.
England still play 4-4-2? Like, rigidly, no flexibility? *doesn't watch England much*
Yep.
There was a little bit of interchange with Welbeck, Sturridge and Sterling in the WC which were probably England's brightest offensive moments. Then someone slow and ponderous like Gerrard or Rooney would ruin everything by mitroutting a pass or taking too long to even make one.
EDIT: ...hahaha mis-hitting.
late to the party but swansea are a total one man team, Jonjo is their messiah, will lead them to champions league football within the next three years guaranteed. united fans must have the most disgusting covetous looks of jealousy plastered across their faces when they see such a mercurial midfield talent not being called upon to save their flagging midfield.
4-4-2 is rubbish on football manager. 4-2-3-1 or christmas tree all day son.
lonny bob's attempt to turn "i've seen him play loads so he is this role" into the football threads "I'm not racist i've got a black friend" is endearing. I've never watched a full 90 minutes of Lionel Messi, does this mean I am mistaken in my belief that he is not a target man?
Depends on the version of FM you're playing, but I do like 4-2-3-1 with wingbacks instead of fullbacks. 4-4-2 still the formation that has worked for me the best over a long time, though (FM2012).Quote:
Originally Posted by DK
Are we comparing the average bloke's knowledge of Herrera to the average bloke's knowledge of Messi now? xD Please. You're no more knowledgeable of Herrera than the next bloke. "He's a midfielder, right?" "Played for that one Spanish side." "Spanish, not very stocky, so he's not very defensive." :p C'mon, out with your information before you say "oh, he's not..."Quote:
lonny bob's attempt to turn "i've seen him play loads so he is this role" into the football threads "I'm not racist i've got a black friend" is endearing. I've never watched a full 90 minutes of Lionel Messi, does this mean I am mistaken in my belief that he is not a target man?
Of course, I don't fall into the belief that you need a box to box midfielder to have a successful 4-4-2 regardless. United have won a few league titles since we lost Keane, and even then Keane was never a box to box midfielder in his closing seasons at Old Trafford. Who were the box to box midfielders when we were off winning titles with a 4-4-2 formation, if Herrera is not one?
In the end, it's a case of finding the right players with the right balance and the right manager to make good use of 'em. Box to box midfielders can really improve any formation, sure, but if you guys don't think Herrera is a box to box midfielder then I suppose United haven't had one for years (but have been very successful despite it).
Uhhh, United didn't successfully play 4-4-2 after Keane left. They did for a bit while Jose dominated, but in United's successful teams of the past 5 years first you had the Tevez - Rooney - Ronaldo 4-2-3-1 and then in Ferguson's final season it was 4-3-1-2 diamond. http://eplindex.com/20573/footballin...-ferguson.html Fergie was ahead of the curve again. It's that idiot David "4-4-2 and lots of crosses are the DNA of Man United!" Moyes who played a flat 4-4-2 in 2014.
I'm not saying Herrera is or isn't box-to-box, but I am saying so far I don't see that he's a better player than say Joe Allen, another box-to-box midfielder, and I don't think you could build a title challenge around either in a 4-4-2.
I dunno, I think we played a hell of a lot of games 4-4-2 (while we did I agree dabble with 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 as you suggested). SAF was very versatile in his later seasons, but 4-4-2 was still the basic style he reverted to for most games. After Ronaldo left, we played Valencia, Young, Nani etc. on the wings with Rooney filling in on occasion. As for Tevez-Rooney-Ronaldo - I wouldn't say that was a 4-2-3-1. I would say it was a mix between 4-3-3 and 4-4-2. Even then, though, we almost always had someone on each side who would play as a winger during build-up play. The rest just really depended on how many midfielders SAF felt like playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I don't expect us to mount a title challenge this season. xD I'm expecting us to mount a CL challenge this season. I think most United fans agree with me on that one - the title is still not something we can realistically go for. It's not that I don't think the players are good enough, it's that I don't think they are familiar enough with one another (let alone the manager, let alone the formation). Also I expect us to continue with our horrible plague of injuries because nobody will ever fix that for us. :stare:
EDIT: And Moyes only played 4-4-2 for 45-70 minutes of each game. After that he would take off some midfielders and put on more strikers. If there was one thing I was always critical of Moyes for, it was that. We finished nearly every game with 4-1-1-4.
EDITRA: Fantastic article, btw. Great find.
Roy Hodgson's general existence actually makes me really angry. I just read through a huge article of quotes by him during his six months at Anfield and it's smurfing obscene. Saying he'd hoped for a 0-0 after losing at home to bottom of the table Wolves. "That was our best performance of the season" after losing 2-0 to Everton. Describing League Two Northampton as a "formidable challenge" (and then promptly losing to them). What the smurf. God damnit. Useless sack of trout. Hope Switzerland smash us 8-0 and he gets the sack.
So do I in all honesty, he never should have got the job ahead of Harry Redknapp (at the time) and should have been sacked after the World Cup. With that in mind it seems like it doesn't matter how badly the team perform, the FA are going to let Hodgson see out his contract until after the Euros, which is really bad for the national side.
The job is a poisoned chalice admittedly, but there must have been someone better available who had a decent season with Fulham (after barely avoiding relegation the season before) and then completely bombed at Liverpool.
As always I was bored to tears watching the Norway game, you know times are bad when the commentators are calling for Steven Gerrard's return which covers your earlier point of him slowing down a game or smacking a hopeful ball 40 yards up the field. It's great when it works one time in a game and has Adrian Chiles gushing, but their failure to mention the other 15 times he fluffed the pass infuriates me. I had really hoped a team with an average age of 24 (and the oldest being 29) would inject some needed enthusiasm into the team, but that'll never happen with Rooney as captain either.
Stopped reading at "I like a high tempo passing game"Quote:
Roy Hodgson's general existence actually makes me really angry. I just read through a huge article of quotes by him during his six months at Anfield and it's smurfing obscene.
I'm also reluctant to pin too much blame on Hodgson for England's chronic average-ness. It makes people believe that if they just change the manager things might look up. The reality is that the players themselves (and the player pool) just aren't very good. People thought the same thing about Fabio Capello, and I thought he got England to play the best any team with Matthew Upson in it could. I look at the -unbelievably troute- Wales side and there are at least 4 players in it who I think would be in the England XI were they English.
Maybe what England need right now is a Gascoigne/Beckham character who genuinely seems to give it all for the team and produces a spark with the fans, giving them a reason to go and watch what is essentially 11 overpaid uninspiring footballers kick it long for 90 minutes. Someone like Andrew Flintoff was for the cricket team (being a pillock notwithstanding), who can manage to inspire victories all by themselves. At the moment who gives a trout about watching James Milner shank it into the crowd for the 10th time?
Is this another demand for a Nathan Dyer call up?
I will not rest, I will not sleep.
Well, Raheem Sterling is easily England's best and most exciting player and I believe won MotM in three of his last four internationals. According to your good self Dyer is twice the player poor old Razza is so Dyer must be one hell of a talent. Roy still won't call him up though.
I'm curious as to the chosen formation you guys would all play, and who would fill the spots. Go on, get your muppet hats on!
I sort of want to build the team around Sterling so I might use Liverpool's Diamond to get the best out of him.
so
Hart
Flanagan Cahill Jones Shaw
Delph/Huddlestone
Henderson-----------Lallana
Sterling
Sturridge - Welbeck
However, I have always been a 4-3-3 boy as such:
Hart
Flanagan Cahill Jones Shaw
Delph/Huddlestone
Henderson-----Lallana
Walcott - Sturridge - Sterling
This has the added bonus of Theo Walcott (underrated player) but you have shunted Sterling out of the no 10 position where he is most effective. And Walcott is presently injured so it might end up being Danny Welbeck or, ugh, Andros Townsend. Ox and Barkley providing cover in midfield. With Phase 1 of my Anti-Scouse agenda taking shape with Gerrard gone, I will not rest in my mission until Rooney and Baines follow. I say that, but then I'm all aboard the Flanagan train :shobon: Glen Johnson can bugger off now. Out of shape, carrying few extra pounds, lost that yard of pace and in poor form.
Jones ahead of Smalling, eh? Always weird picking between those two, but I always feel much safer at the back at United with Smalling around rather than Jones, because the latter will undoubtedly go Luiz at some point in the game and fluff it up. Smalling is a beast when played in central defence and leaks fewer goals. Both are pretty rubbish at right back, though, where they've often been played. Personally I've grown to feel Jones' best position is DM. He's not amazing at it, but if he screws up, well, he's generally not the last line of defence that way and the more reliable types can save his face. And what a face to save.
Admittedly don't know enough about Lallana or Shaw just yet. Barely seen either play (EDIT: Same for Flanagan). Dunno too much about Delph/Huddlestone either tbh, despite seeing them play a fair bit I've never noticed them much.
Hoping Chambers makes the step up so it's a non-issue, but yeah, Jones did well against Norway.
Edited my last post while you were replying. :shobon:
Lallana and Shaw were in the PFA Team of the Year last season, how can you not know about them? xD
Just haven't spent my days picking apart the Southampton team, really. Can't remember the Devils vs. Saints games last season, not sure if I watched them or not...
you shut your slanderous mouth, Hornby, Jimmeh is god tier. the only good thing Leeds has ever done.
Wait, who is Jimmeh and who is Hornby? xD
The Leeds boy is the greater of the two Jims in question, I feel.
My family is actually from Yorkshire
Is this the Northern equivalent of "I can't be racist, I have black friends"? Pull t'other one you Tetley scorning hatemonger.
Pshhh, I don't have any black friends.
England in not being trout shocker. Suspect a lot of pre-written articles are being binned.
Respect to Hodgson for binning 4-4-2 and rocking the Sterling diamond. Naturally I'm going to claim some of the credit.
We did play pretty well surprisingly. Still plenty of games for us to come unstuck though!
Sterling really is class. Jones showed that he could be quite a useful player if only he would STOP MAKING THOSE SMURFING MISTAKES.
I stuck a pound on at the start for Welbeck to score first and England to win 2-1. That great challenge by Gary Cahill potentially cost me £111. Damn you England for finally being solid :argh:
Did he Luiz himself again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba
amazing game at the emirates today- gutted we didn't get the win after those two brilliant goals by jack and alexis but it could have gone either way in the end.
was concerned with debuchy's injury, it seemed serious but apparently is not something that will cost him more than a couple weeks.
i didn't watch the liverpool game as i was outside, was surprised they lost- was it an even game?
Not that surprising, Aston Villa have a really good record against the top 4 - pretty sure they beat all four of them last season. Anyway, in terms of an even game it was one of "those" games. Top team goes behind early, huffs and puffs and has plenty of possession but lacks that cutting edge to draw even as the other team parks the bus. You don't need me to describe it any further to know you've already seen it dozens of times.
Agreed that the game at the Emirates was fantastic. Was really the 'start' of the season for me, I've kinda daydreamed through the first three weeks, but this woke me up.
Could have gone either way, but I feel a draw is a fair result for the effort put in. Wilshere did well in the second half, but honestly why Sanchez didn't get MotM I'll never know, the guy was the best player on the pitch for the whole game, and his work rate is second to none.
@Psychotic - I see; was just surprised because Liverpool hammered Spurs last week but as proven from time to time again, that doesn't mean anyting in EPL; any team at a given day can surprise or fall short.
Yeah, it was a very high quality game; City looked dangerous in the counter attack, and they had a party from the left side (why wasn't Gibbs on instead of Monreal? That had me like whut, but idk, maybe he wasn't 100% and his services are needed for the upcoming Dortmund fixture) but we showed guts to come back, and fought hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crop
I thought the Debuchy injury affected us quite a bit and we conceded from yet another set piece, but well, what can you do?
Alexis is a beast, he's a machine. I absolutely love the guy, his work rate is exceptional and his volley was amazing but Jack was simply outstanding today; he was everywhere, felt like Ramsey at his prime from last year and a bit more. (I would say it would be a tie between those two, for MotM, but a bit more on Jack)
Ozil was flat, and so was Ramsey, I feel like if either of those had stepped it up a bit we could have won it; Monreal was mediocre, but can't blame the guy. That's the best he can do, we do need Gibbo back asap.
Welbeck had a good debut, and he was extremely unlucky the post denied him.
Anyway, it was a draw but the performance was inspiring; onwards and upwards.
Oh, look, United can play!
Loving the new look United, I must say. It'll be interesting to see if we stick with 4-3-3 / diamond formation when we have more defenders available to us, but I really hope we do, because we looked excellent. Blackett looked comfortable managing the defence at the young age of 20, Rojo & Di Maria rocked the left side, Herrera was great, Rooney/Mata/Di Maria/Herrera as an attacking force were just perfect. RVP and Rafael didn't have the best of games but clearly still doing their job nicely. Great to have a good DM, too, in Blind.
Now... to do it again against someone who isn't QPR...
Now will you admit it was just Moyes being trout? :D
http://www.football365.com/news/2155...-embarrassing-
(If it helps)
MANCHESTER UNITED CONFIRMED FOR BACK ON TRACK CRISIS OVER PREMIER LEAGUE TITLE IMMINENT ISIS LAY DOWN THEIR WEAPONS VAN GAAL REVEALED AS MAGIC WIELDING PUPPETMASTER OF FOOTBALL
>every back page
>first win of the season
>qpr
>worst team in the league
Also, here comes the Swansea regression to the mean.
Ah yes, Liverpool FC in Europe. I had romanticised it in my head so that I forgot that I usually smurfing hate every minute of it while trying to prevent heart failure.
Here here!Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I have to say, still not too impressed with Sakho in defense. Always looks unsure on the ball. Lovren had some good tackles but the defense still hasn't come together. Still, 3 points is all that matters here. Survive and advance. If we can find a way to win our home games and tie away (Yes, even in Madrid), we should advance to the knockouts.
Take care all.
Great composure by Gerrard for that penalty. Had a feeling he might fluff it. Ludogorets did well though Liverpool definitely underestimated them. Still, three points is three points. Arsenal were piss poor though. The more I see them the more I think we've got a great chance of sneaking that fourth spot ahead of them.
Also, it's great to see that Welbeck is still as prolific as ever. It's a shame because if he had that to his game then he'd be world class and we definitely wouldn't have let him go.
The Germans need to stop being so good at football. The Spaniards and UEFA might start a big sulk again.
It was a pretty dull game to be honest. Just glad I stuck a fiver on Bayern to win at the start of the game.
Both teams with still qualify for the next round. It's a tough group and I hope this affects City's league campaign.
Yaya Toure's become pretty bobbins hasn't he? Think the league is Chelsea-bound right now.
Would any Man United fans care to join me in a spot of "holding each other while crying in the corner"? Not gone particularly well for either team this season has it?
Bloody made up for the Foxes. I was a bit miffed when relegation predictions were abound and that QPR would finish above them. smurf off. Vardy and Ulloa are easily Prem quality.
Terrible decision by the ref let Leicester back into the game and gave them a big lift. There's no excuse for letting in four goals in 20 mins though.
*holds Psychotic and cries*
EDIT: Looking forward to seeing two teams that can actually defend in the 4pm game
leicester forever god damn hell yes this is sheer quality. bet your grandad is full on beaming in the next world pauw what a glorious day
Yeah I was just imagining him leaping out of his chair and screaming in excitement at the telly as he used to do haha.
SHUPA FWANK SHUPA GOA'S
Quote:
Originally Posted by DK
no psychotic i'm afraid i cannot allow you to suddenly become a leicester fan now that they're in the top flight :doublecolbert: this is a right you do not have
always been a Leicester fan bro, sorry. Been to more City games than any other team and yeah you can find pictures of me as a young lad rockin' both the blue and the red.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
However, granted, in this online arena I have preferred Liverpool and so will continue to back that horse 'cause the "yeah I only like 'em now they're winning" thing is a bit trout. Leicester is more of an IRL thing for local people I know. If I started talking about City here nobody would've given a smurf until now.
Still gonna finish above your Welsh lot. :cool:
Chelsea excepted, the start to this season has been pretty mental.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoticalways been a Leicester fan bro, sorry. Been to more City games than any other team and yeah you can find pictures of me as a young lad rockin' both the blue and the red.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
However, granted, in this online arena I have preferred Liverpool and so will continue to back that horse 'cause the "yeah I only like 'em now they're winning" thing is a bit trout. Leicester is more of an IRL thing for local people I know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
How is that any different from what I said? xD I've straight up said, yes, Liverpool. I'm not going "HAHAHAHA WE BEAT YOU SUCK IT" as I would if that had been Liverpool doing that. I'm made up for Leicester though, in a way that I wouldn't be if, say, Sunderland had done it. Locally, I know more people that support teams that have been in the Championship with Leicester (Blues, Coventry, Wolves, Forest, Derby etc) so IRL I'm more of a Leicester fan probably. I have never made a secret of liking either team. It's not a crime to like both!
the fact that you fraternize with Wolves fans has badly dented your reputation in my eyes. for shame, pauw. for shame.
You seem to suggest you prefer Liverpool to Leicester without any doubt in one post, but then you say you're "more of a Leicester fan" IRL. Make up your mind, buddy! One or the other!Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Specifically said Liverpool without any doubt in both posts too:Quote:
However, granted, in this online arena I have preferred Liverpool and so will continue to back that horse
If you keep this up I will start mocking you about 5-3 ;)Quote:
I've straight up said, yes, Liverpool
I figured when you said you are "more of a Leicester fan IRL" that you meant "more of a Leicester fan [than a Liverpool fan] IRL". Guessing now that you didn't mean that. :p