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The hints are there but they are extremely subjective, like the fact that Rinoa gives Squall the necklace, or Irvine can't shoot Edea although it is suggested that he shot a lot of people, or the simple fact that they always stick together, it is a bond that can't be suggested by anything else than the past.
was irvines hesitation really to do with that though?Quote:
Originally Posted by ragnosica
he did say he always gets all nervous.
Some examples then? Because besides the control panel (which only mentions the memory aspect) I really can't think of any.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER
I hated it. Big time.
Basically the entire idea the orphanage was...
Square Writer: OH CRAP! We forgot to thrown in pasts on the other characters to make them relate!
Some other Square Writer: I know, we can explain all of their backgrounds in ONE REALLY BIG CRAPPY SCENE!
Square Writer: But uh... how will they be connected?
Other Writer: I know! We'll pick random cliches out of a hat.
*Picks out of hat*
Square Writer: Hmm... We could make them orphans.
Other Writer: Cool, make up some crap why they couldn't remember it and throw this cliche in a huge scene after the bombing, I mean we where looking to put something there anyway.
Yeah... That sums up why I hate it so.
I laughed and thought they didn't have much time to make this plot-twist an actual plot-twist.
From what I remember (If I remember more I'll say) the hints are around. One of which being Irvine being unable to shoot at the correctly planned moment, that is because he knows about the past more than the others. His claims of "cracking under pressure" in clearly a cover that any morron could work out (Hey, I worked it out didn't I?) the pressure of "history" is nothing, and it wouldn't have made history anyway, all people care about is assanations never who's done them. He is dillbertly acting OOC and Square know it.
Another is in the D-District Prison. A reminicent moment after Squall saves Zell, someone who he is hardly suposed to know at this point, as they have hardly interacted at this point. This is further notable as Sqaull is still in his "keep to self" stage at this point, further break in character moment, also this could be a start of Squall changing aswell, but you can see the nostaliga forming.
Also it is stated in one of the FE pages that the characters have a past dream (Ellone's) about the orphanage, this is hint threw expressinon and this is how Sephie was able to guess before Irvine said about the orphanage, I can't remember where this takes placem I'll check later.
Some of the hints are more direct than the ones that aren't, and it is more based on expression than others.
Shortly before the parade when Rinoa's dad is explaing what to do, he mentions Edea's name - this is the first time we, and suposedly the characters have heard "The Sorceress" being called by name. But Sqaull thinks to him self about the name, and through expression, it's obvious he's heard it before somewhere...
I'll add more later, if I can remember. And there's probably a lot I missed.
The game gives the player no reason to question the validity of Irvine’s nervousness at that point in time. There is nothing in the way he delivers his lines that implies that he is lying, nor does Squall question his sincerity either. If they player doesn’t consider his explanation particularly believable, there is no reason for the player to jump to anything beyond “the writers gave him pretty lame motivations”.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER
Is this the scene in question? (script taken from gamefaq.com)Quote:
Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER
I don’t see anything there that could be called reminiscing. If this isn’t the scene you’re talking about you’ll have to point it out to me.Quote:
Meanwhile...
Guard: There he is! Over there!!! Seize the escapee, dead or alive!!!
Zell: Tch! Too many! I'm outta here!
Zell moves on but is struck by someone.
Zell: Ugh...
Warden: You bastard... DIE!!!
Suddenly, Squall came up and killed the Warden with his gunblade.
Squall: Didn't think he'd go down that easy.
Zell: Squall!!! Thanks, man!!!
Squall: W-What!? Let go. I said, let go!
The only scene before the orphanage plot twist that actually involves the orphanage in any shape or form is a scene involving Squall (and only Squall) as a child. Only, there is no way to tell from the scene that it’s set in an orphanage and indeed the only thing one can take away from the scene is that Squall had a (at this point unnamed) sister (‘Sis’, later revealed to be Ellone) who apparently left him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER
Once again, from the FFVIII gamescript:Quote:
Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER
This one is probably the most substantial example that you’ve given. That being said, it doesn’t point to anything beyond Squall possibly having heard the name Edea before. Foreshadowing of the orphanage scene would have required at least a subtle clue as to their being a link between the protagonists. Squall’s musing over Edea’s name doesn’t imply this in the slightest.Quote:
General Caraway: I'm sure you know about the Galbadian government
reaching an agreement with sorceress Edea.
Squall: (So the sorceress' name is Edea...)
General Caraway: There is going to be a ceremony tonight to commemorate
the event.
Squall: (Edea...)
My guess is that he was reminded of the orphanage at that point. The GFs don't totally wipe people's memories, if they did, the group wouldn't be able to remember everything during the basketball scene. They just seem to sever the connections that allow you to recall things on your own. A reminder of the past, such as someone telling you things that happened, or a mentioned of a name from that time, would stir up the memories. Edea's name probably rang a bell in Squall's head, just not enough for him to actually remember where he heard it before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
That can be disbuted but at the same time, they never called her Edea, they called her Matron.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeMy guess is that he was reminded of the orphanage at that point. The GFs don't totally wipe people's memories, if they did, the group wouldn't be able to remember everything during the basketball scene. They just seem to sever the connections that allow you to recall things on your own. A reminder of the past, such as someone telling you things that happened, or a mentioned of a name from that time, would stir up the memories. Edea's name probably rang a bell in Squall's head, just not enough for him to actually remember where he heard it before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
Or it might just be the fact that Squall, being the squad's leader, knows it's his responsibility to make sure all his teammates have a chance go back to Garden alive and in one piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER
Yes, they called her that. I doubt anyone but the kids did though. We know that people visited the orphanage, and I doubt that the kids never at least heard her real name. It was enough to sound familiar, not enough to make him remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbokoThat can be disbuted but at the same time, they never called her Edea, they called her Matron.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeMy guess is that he was reminded of the orphanage at that point. The GFs don't totally wipe people's memories, if they did, the group wouldn't be able to remember everything during the basketball scene. They just seem to sever the connections that allow you to recall things on your own. A reminder of the past, such as someone telling you things that happened, or a mentioned of a name from that time, would stir up the memories. Edea's name probably rang a bell in Squall's head, just not enough for him to actually remember where he heard it before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: can i call you moldy boko?!:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
As I said, he is OOC see, and Square know he is, it a nice hint all is not as it seams, by this time he knows who she is, and waits to it's he's scene that way she has time to stop every thing.Quote:
The game gives the player no reason to question the validity of Irvine’s nervousness at that point in time. There is nothing in the way he delivers his lines that implies that he is lying, nor does Squall question his sincerity either. If they player doesn’t consider his explanation particularly believable, there is no reason for the player to jump to anything beyond “the writers gave him pretty lame motivations”.
It's very close to that scene. Squall is asked if Zell meant anything to him, (No jokes please) and he's about to say not, but then their face expressions note nostalgia. Remember they barely know each other yet. but what another character said, jogged they're memories slightly.Quote:
Is this the scene in question? (Script taken from gamefaq.com)
Meanwhile...
Guard: There he is! Over there!!! Seize the escapee, dead or alive!!!
Zell: Tch! Too many! I'm outta here!
Zell moves on but is struck by someone.
Zell: Ugh...
Warden: You bastard... DIE!!!
Suddenly, Squall came up and killed the Warden with his gunblade.
Squall: Didn't think he'd go down that easy.
Zell: Squall!!! Thanks, man!!!
Squall: W-What!? Let go. I said, let go!
I don’t see anything there that could be called reminiscing. If this isn’t the scene you’re talking about you’ll have to point it out to me.
The "scene" in question, isn't a scene, it just hinted they had a dream somewhere, if you could point me where it happens, or the FE page that talks about it I may be able to explain further.Quote:
The only scene before the orphanage plot twist that actually involves the orphanage in any shape or form is a scene involving Squall (and only Squall) as a child. Only, there is no way to tell from the scene that it’s set in an orphanage and indeed the only thing one can take away from the scene is that Squall had a (at this point unnamed) sister (‘Sis’, later revealed to be Ellone) who apparently left him.
It's the way he thinks it, if you wait he repeats the name thought thoughthoughly as though heard it before, but can't place it, again face expressions are important too.Quote:
This one is probably the most substantial example that you’ve given. That being said, it doesn’t point to anything beyond Squall possibly having heard the name Edea before. Foreshadowing of the orphanage scene would have required at least a subtle clue as to their being a link between the protagonists. Squall’s musing over Edea’s name doesn’t imply this in the slightest.
Yes that is also what I am saying, thank you for saying this, it has made explaining this a lot easier. Infact in real life things aren't truly forgotten they are sort of "stored" somewhere, infact they could have forgot other things before with out the "aid" of the GFs, it just more necessary they did.Quote:
My guess is that he was reminded of the orphanage at that point. The GFs don't totally wipe people's memories, if they did, the group wouldn't be able to remember everything during the basketball scene. They just seem to sever the connections that allow you to recall things on your own. A reminder of the past, such as someone telling you things that happened, or a mentioned of a name from that time, would stir up the memories. Edea's name probably rang a bell in Squall's head, just not enough for him to actually remember where he heard it before.
I think Skyblade beat me to the punch here.Quote:
That can be disputed but at the same time, they never called her Edea, they called her Matron.
Somehow they would have learned her name somewhere, but wouldn't have used it them selves. Like Skyblade stated, he rocornized the name, but it "wasn't enough".Quote:
Yes, they called her that. I doubt anyone but the kids did though. We know that people visited the orphanage, and I doubt that the kids never at least heard her real name. It was enough to sound familiar, not enough to make him remember
That doesn’t really refute what I said. That’s basically just you reiterating what you said initially. By extension, my response to this would be the same the one before, I guess.Quote:
As I said, he is OOC see, and Square know he is, it a nice hint all is not as it seams, by this time he knows who she is, and waits to it's he's scene that way she has time to stop every thing.
I’ve been through the rest of that scene and can’t find anything. Are you sure this happens soon afterwards?Quote:
It's very close to that scene. Squall is asked if Zell meant anything to him, (No jokes please) and he's about to say not, but then their face expressions note nostalgia. Remember they barely know each other yet. but what another character said, jogged they're memories slightly.
It’s a little difficult for me to find a scene based on that rather vague description. With out a specific scene or key-words I would have to search through the entire script to find it, presuming the scene exists. If you have some idea as to what the scene entails, you might have better luck by downloading the script off gamefaq.com and looking through yourself.Quote:
The "scene" in question, isn't a scene, it just hinted they had a dream somewhere, if you could point me where it happens, or the FE page that talks about it I may be able to explain further.
I understand the intentions of the dialog. My point is that the scene doesn’t indicate anything in particular beyond Squall having perhaps heard the name before to someone who is playing the game for the first time.Quote:
It's the way he thinks it, if you wait he repeats the name thought thoughthoughly as though heard it before, but can't place it, again face expressions are important too.
That is the beuty of FF games, at least most of them especially this one, you don't get everthing the first time.Quote:
I understand the intentions of the dialog. My point is that the scene doesn’t indicate anything in particular beyond Squall having perhaps heard the name before to someone who is playing the game for the first time.
I don't know how many people do this, but I often had more than one saves at a time, I would get so far with my first save and when I got stuck, I would either take a break with another game, or I would start this game at the begining on another save, to (a) enjoy the game threw up to the point where I got stuck, (b) See if I missed anything and (c) see if by some flute, I could be stronger by the time I got to that point and continue there.
When on my main save I saw the orphange scene, I was facinated, it was one of thoes moments where I could have just shouted OMFG (In full) there and then. I contiued a bit and (I can't remember if I got stuck, or just decided to) I stopped with this save and looked though some of my older ones, to see if anything linked up or hinted to this moment, the mention of Edea's name was the first I noticed, that's probably why I was able to explain it better than the other ones, as it was the first and I've had time, it's easier to explain, because it is easier to understand.
I've talked a bit on this one, so I'll reply to the others later.
By the way, at the end of the day, if I like this scene and you don't I guess the matter of opinon.