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I think that's part of the issue, the casual joking nature of calling a rather beloved fictional female character as a bitch. I'm not eloquent enough to go into the reasons why the casualness of it was the disconcerting part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
You should hear what I say about the beloved fictional male characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miriel
To be clear, the word bitch itself doesn't raise my eyebrows, especially considering how common the usage is these days, without any sexist overtones. I use it, other people on this forum use it, people use it jokingly or seriously, in glee or anger or pride and that's all fine. Examples:
Britney Spears: "It's Britney, bitch"
Tina Fey: "Bitches get it done"
General, commonly used phrases: "hurts like a bitch" "bitch, please" "son of a bitch"
Whether or not a word is offensive is almost always situational.
In this situation it was used as part of a statement declaring that a female character, a bitch, unequivocally lost a contest. When the word is used casually in that kind of context, it makes me do a double take. Much more than an outrageously sexist video game that most people consider to be ridiculous.
:|
What exactly is wrong with that context?
Because in that context, the word "bitch" is used as a derisive synonym for a female who has apparently done two things, 1) lost a contest and two) is female.
It was not used in an ironic way or general way. It literally was used in place of the word, "She". The word bitch, while being appropriated for uses beyond that of a slur against woman, or reclaimed by women themselves, cannot always be casually used as a synonym for female pronouns by males without there being an undercurrent of misogyny. And what's worse, is that many people will not even "get" it.
And I brought this up because MILF seemed gleeful at the idea of me or foa/rubah/shlup exploding in rage at something overt and ridiculous, when it's far more frustrating when men display casual sexism without even realizing it. At least from my perspective.
It's wrong because it implies that it is perfectly reasonable to refer to a girl as a bitch in casual conversation.
Imagine the reverse, that Snake had lost that contest, and the quote was 'asshole still lost'. Would that have raised more eyebrows? Maybe not, but I think that's mostly because there is no equivalent to 'bitch' for males.
So imagine instead that Snake defeated Barrett. Do you see the issue now?
Yeah I just like seeing girls get mad :shobon:
I think part of the issue is that tone (specifically my tone, not to mention my body language and general insanity) don't carry well over the internet. Like I said though, if you want me to edit it out of that post just say the word. There was certainly nothing misogynystic or sexist intended by it, but let it not be said that I'm not sensitive to the concerns of other members here.
Or at least the short list of members I like and respect. :)
I'm not disagreeing with Miriel and I think her point is a particularly valid one. Just want to say that before I say anything that could make me look like an idiot.
It seemed to me like Vivi22 was using the word in the same general context as the examples listed earlier. It wasn't so much casual misogyny as the word has just become a common "pronoun" substitute. There are examples here in Aus of the same thing with even more serious expletives.
Anyway.
You bitch.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF
Yeah, I don't see any difference between Vivi22's use and Del's use here -- as an obvious joke. The use of "bitch" as a female-exclusive insult as a symptom of a misogynist culture is a valid point to make, but attacking it in this context is just silly -- and futile. The more light-heartedly the word is commonly used, the less power it has anyway (see: the word "gay").
I'd still be inclined to say "bitch lost".Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
Well, I happen to have an interdimensional time machine and when I went back in time to another dimension where that indeed was the scenario, you actually said something quite different and much more offensive. Also your name was Gary.
Eww, clearly I have issues in that dimension.