Replaying Chrono Cross

I thinkwe just come from two different worlds. You thought Persona 2 had a good battle system, didn't you? I don't think I know anybody but you and Fynn who feels that way.

Chrono Cross' battle system is involved and more strategic than most turn-based battle systems, especially before melee rules supreme. Monitoring field effect so you gain the most out of your Elements/take the least damage from enemy Elements, measuring Stamina so you use certain attacks from characters at certain points, perhaps starting a Combo with Character A then heading to Character C to attack some more so Character A gets all their Stamina back, factoring in Innates instead of just typical "Character A has these stats and Character B has these stats" - all this and more is why I love CC's battle system.

Also if you need Shiny materials, there is also this strategy:
https://chaos2.org/ff/cc/shiny.shtml

The Elemental Charms aren't as special as I thought and can all be easily stolen. Angel Charms and thus Shiny Salts are the hardest to come by since only an enemy in Terra Tower drops them. But you'll find one Angel Charm in Dragonia as I recall plus there's the Energizer Suit in one of the Hermit Hideaways which can also be Disassembled for a Shiny Salt.



So my playthrough of Trigger is coming along. I was found not guilty this time for all the good it did me. Also I just realized that it was Melchior I tried to sell Marle's Pendant too and it's because he asked for it. I never thought about the significance of this last time.

The music in this game is pretty great, especially the World Map Music for...1000AD is
the Home Era of our hero I think?

I'm really bad at the timeline. Like, I think Chrono Cross takes place only a few years after CT's "main" time?

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

I think we just come from two different worlds. You thought Persona 2 had a good battle system, didn't you? I don't think I know anybody but you and Fynn who feels that way.

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I honestly don't know too many people who dislike P2's battle system. ;)

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Chrono Cross' battle system is involved and more strategic than most turn-based battle systems, especially before melee rules supreme. Monitoring field effect so you gain the most out of your Elements/take the least damage from enemy Elements, measuring Stamina so you use certain attacks from characters at certain points, perhaps starting a Combo with Character A then heading to Character C to attack some more so Character A gets all their Stamina back, factoring in Innates instead of just typical "Character A has these stats and Character B has these stats" - all this and more is why I love CC's battle system.

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I agree that the Field Elements add a lot of strategic value, but I often feel it works best defensively. I don't pay too much attention to innate element without looking at stats first. This is especially noticeable in my current playthrough as I can often get better results exploiting elemental weaknesses using a magic build character using the element than constantly shuffling around my team. There are also just some elements where I don't feel there are any exceptional members of it, specifically Red and Yellow. I mean honestly, if characters like Kid, Fargo, and Mel didn't have useful techs, I would never use them. Lenna has some very useful techs, but her stats are middling so I will likely drop her for another character. If I had played as I usually did and got Guile and Glenn, I would never let them leave my party except when the game forces me to because their better stats and combat focus trump any advantage the Innate element mechanics give. It's a large part of my dislike of the system because I find most of it superfluous. A smaller cast with more role based focus in their stats and skills would have made this game more fun for me.

The Stamina recovery element would be more practical if they were more extreme. As it stands, I can easily have all three party members do one of each physical attack and end with a magic attack/tech skill and easily cycle through the whole party. The stamina mechanic and element mechanic would have been more interesting if higher tier elements required Stamina use like melee does, forcing you to have to have to rely on one or the other mechanic. As it stands, I can largely get my cake and eat it too with my party averaging four attacks per character. It's only when I steal that things change and even then it just slows down regular battles. Like most JRPG's with convoluted but easily exploited systems, boss battles are about the only place where the mechanics shine but the random battles are a chore. This is where I can appreciate Xenogears simple brain dead regular battles cause at least they are over quickly and I can move on. Cross' battles require too much focus but are hardly interesting which makes the gameplay a chore for me. Not helping is how the leveling system itself largely discourages grinding outside of materials for smithing, it's almost like the game is telling me to run from battles and go out of my way to avoid combat as much as possible and it all just feels counter-intuitive to me in terms of what a game should be.

It's hardly the worst system but it's all so sloppy and I feel the sheer amount of mechanics are there to distract players on how simple and straightforward the gameplay really is.

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Also if you need Shiny materials, there is also this strategy:
https://chaos2.org/ff/cc/shiny.shtml

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Ooh, that will come in handy, thanks.

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The Elemental Charms aren't as special as I thought and can all be easily stolen. Angel Charms and thus Shiny Salts are the hardest to come by since only an enemy in Terra Tower drops them. But you'll find one Angel Charm in Dragonia as I recall plus there's the Energizer Suit in one of the Hermit Hideaways which can also be Disassembled for a Shiny Salt.

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I'm not too concerned with outfitting everyone. I usually only make three of each Mail type and only make the weapons of characters I plan to use, so that saves me some time and money.

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So my playthrough of Trigger is coming along. I was found not guilty this time for all the good it did me. Also I just realized that it was Melchior I tried to sell Marle's Pendant too and it's because he asked for it. I never thought about the significance of this last time.

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Oh yeah, you run into a lot of call forwards if you pay attention. If you go to the shop in Crono's village and one of the boating docks, you'll learn about the missing shop keeper's son you can rescue later when you're escaping the prison. I still feel the Millennial Fair/Crono Trial is one of the most clever parts of the game

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The music in this game is pretty great, especially the World Map Music for...1000AD is
the Home Era of our hero I think?

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Actually it's Schala's Another World era. Serge's timeline is the rogue timeline trying to overwrite the main one.

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I'm really bad at the timeline. Like, I think Chrono Cross takes place only a few years after CT's "main" time?

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Cross takes place in the year 1020AD. Twenty years after the events of CT. The timeline is divided in 1010AD when Kid would time travel back from 1020 AD and save him from drowning. Granted, CC is kind of fuzzy about how this dimensional split exists when it also basically says that any time a time travel changes history, it causes the old timeline to enter a garbage dump of other timelines. Though I guess the Time Crash and/or the presence of the Frozen Flame somehow allows for these alternate timelines to still exist parallel to the main one.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I honestly don't know too many people who dislike P2's battle system. ;)

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It's why nobody plays it and why IS on the PSP failed so hard we never got EP PSP. Also why fans of Persona start with 3 and just go from there. It's not because they're dumb and don't think "what about 1 and 2?" But nobody in good conscience can recommend those games because the battle systems. I love InnocentSin but I'd almost just recommend watching a walkthrough on YT.


Honestly it looks like Nocturne was the first Atlus game that is actually fun to play. Everything else has aged like moldy cheese.


And I see what you mean about random battles being a bit annoying and tedious. That was definitely a problem at times.


As for the timeline stuff, one area I got confused at was how the "split" only took place ten years ago which means everything else should be the same.Like, Radius killing Garai should be a universal fact among both timelines. Also I guess there are two Masamunes although now I think on it we only see the Home one... But it was KAnotehr Karsh who attacked his Dario while it's Home Dario we run into... Hm.



Alternate Dimension Time travel is confusing.


Speaking of which, I just got to 2300 AD and I still find it odd that the first arc of teh game is "time travel made everything worse!" and then the next thing is "we must time travel to make everything better!"

Also I adore Marle's little "yipee!" victory animation. I had forgotten about that. Also forgot Marle isn't even her name. I guess I know what Nadia's Bell was named after now. The bell which will never ring again. DO YOU FEEL BAD YET?


I talked about my playthrough elsewhere and one surprising complaint I saw about CC is people saying it had a smaller scope than Trigger. Because it all takes place in one tiny archipelago and only gets major in the last couple arcs. That is a baffling complaint to me since don't the Gates just transport the CT heroes to the exact same places but in different times? You're just seeing Guardia - or the land that was or will beGuardia -again and again and again.


Also Dragons are a thing in CC but apparently not in CT. Only dragon there was the tank I just beat up.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I honestly don't know too many people who dislike P2's battle system. ;)

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It's why nobody plays it and why IS on the PSP failed so hard we never got EP PSP. Also why fans of Persona start with 3 and just go from there. It's not because they're dumb and don't think "what about 1 and 2?" But nobody in good conscience can recommend those games because the battle systems. I love InnocentSin but I'd almost just recommend watching a walkthrough on YT.


Honestly it looks like Nocturne was the first Atlus game that is actually fun to play. Everything else has aged like moldy cheese.


And I see what you mean about random battles being a bit annoying and tedious. That was definitely a problem at times.

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This will have to be a debate for another time, but honestly, I don't see too many people whine about P2's battle system and I hardly feel it was the issue at hand and not because it was released on a platform that always struggled to keep up with Nintendo's handheld.

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As for the timeline stuff, one area I got confused at was how the "split" only took place ten years ago which means everything else should be the same.Like, Radius killing Garai should be a universal fact among both timelines. Also I guess there are two Masamunes although now I think on it we only see the Home one... But it was Another Karsh who attacked his Dario while it's Home Dario we run into... Hm.

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The split makes sense to me, it just seems weird that as something that changed history, Another World wasn't sent to the Darkness Beyond Time like all other discarded timelines. I mean a big part of CC's plot is concerned about explaining that this is the reason why time travel can be be morally reprehensible, but then it also softens the blow cause apparently beings from these discarded timelines can not only become aware they're from a discarded timeline but can some how still interact with the new timeline such as what Lavos did. The only justification I can think of is the concept of a multiverse and thus natural splits in the timeline such as a timeline where Lavos never showed up and the Reptite's won the war against primitive man can exist in an alternate timeline, but when you actually start physically changing history through time travel, it causes the discarded future events to go to the DBT. While that makes sense to me, it still wouldn't solve the issue of Kid causing the split timeline by saving Serge as it would still mean that Another World should have been sent to the DBT, but it would also likely mean that things like the Dead Sea wouldn't happen because Sege's life being saved shouldn't really change Crono and his team's actions in the first game.

I'm going to have to take extra special attention when I get to the Dead Sea and Chronopolis to see if there is an explanation for this paradox. As it stands, the only way I can see it working out is if FATE and Chronopolis' research into controlling time somehow allowed them to stabilize their timeline and prevent it from going to DBT and shifted Home World into a pocket dimension that works like one of these natural alternate dimension/timelines.

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Speaking of which, I just got to 2300 AD and I still find it odd that the first arc of teh game is "time travel made everything worse!" and then the next thing is "we must time travel to make everything better!"

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I wouldn't say it was about making things worse, just more about showing how time travel can be dangerous if you muck up your own history.

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Also I adore Marle's little "yipee!" victory animation. I had forgotten about that. Also forgot Marle isn't even her name. I guess I know what Nadia's Bell was named after now. The bell which will never ring again. DO YOU FEEL BAD YET?

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Yeah CT takes on some darker tones when you play it again after CC. One thing I did like about CC is that it made Ayla's arc way more interesting.

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I talked about my playthrough elsewhere and one surprising complaint I saw about CC is people saying it had a smaller scope than Trigger. Because it all takes place in one tiny archipelago and only gets major in the last couple arcs. That is a baffling complaint to me since don't the Gates just transport the CT heroes to the exact same places but in different times? You're just seeing Guardia - or the land that was or will beGuardia -again and again and again.

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You eventually travel the whole world, and the Gates are all over the place. It is interesting to see how much places change over the years. I think what the complainers are annoyed about with CC is that so much stuff seems to be going on over on the Zenan Continent, and yet due to plot reasons, you never really venture out of El Nido except when you fall into Dimensional Vortex and when Serge travels into Kid's past to save her.

CT let's you see the whole world, but many of the eras are fairly homogeneous within the context of their era, but CC has a denser culture since a big theme of the game is dealing with racial and cultural clashes. Crono's timeline has the whole Humans vs. Mystics thing, but outside of the Mystics being bitter about the war in 600AD before you change things around, its a one sided issue whereas it's pretty obvious in CC's world that Humans and Demi-Humans have some serious issues with each other.

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Also Dragons are a thing in CC but apparently not in CT. Only dragon there was the tank I just beat up.

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If memory serves me correctly, the Dragons ended up being the Reptite's equivalent of FATE in their alternate timeline where Terra Tower exists. FATE defeated it and then split them into six pieces to better control them. Then they created Harle as a seventh Dragon in order to have a means of manipulating FATE/Lynx's plan in order to restore themselves. Course all of this ends up being somewhat moot, cause not only are the Dragonians extinct by CC's time, whom the Dragons were the ward for, but the Dragons have become corrupted by the Time Devourer/Lavos so they're just causing problems for the sake of causing problems.

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In my own playthrough, I finished Ft. Dragonia and completely forgot how many bosses were in that place. As usual, I had issues with the Yellow elemental puzzle cause the game never tells you how Select let's you change your party order. I also still vehemently hate the Sun boss cause that guy is so tanky and hits like a truck. Not to mention when he just gets two to three turns in a row that all change the elemental field. I'm also reminded why I dislike the "Change Innate Element" elements cause like most status magic, bosses get immunity. Would have made that fight easier if I could change the bosses element to black.

I decided that the whole Serge stabs Kid CGI must have taken up a lot of the team's resources because they show it like three to four times in the first half of the game and by god the team will get their full use of that scene!

I've only been Lynx for a little while and I'm already liking the scenario much better. The gauntlet of bosses skyrocketed my level so Lynx feels significantly stronger than Serge despite having the same stats, and frankly, Lynx starts off with the ability to build a much stronger team than poor Serge does if you make too many bad choices like I did. Harle lacks Kid's Pilfer ability, and it's annoying she's the same element as Lynx, but she is a much more competent fighter and her two personal Techs are extremely good.

Sprigg always surprises me, and she's a far better example of a novelty character done right. She's not annoying and she plays uniquely with her shape shifting skills. She's an interesting take on Gau honestly, and it's fun keeping her in the party to build up her monster repertoire despite my favorite monsters being relegated to NG+. Radius is also much better than I give him credit for, with the exception of his low health, he can take and dish a good beating. I'm starting to think the Devs were bias in regards of the Green Element cause it just seems to me like all of the game's best or most interesting party members share this element. Karsh, Glenn, Radius, Razzly, Sprigg, and even that freaking Turnip are interesting and damn good party members.

I'm off to Termina, but I'm stopping by a few places to gain more doppelganger forms for Sprigg since I forgot she learns the form of any monster she beats. The Forget-Me-Not-Pot simply allows other characters to do this for her as well.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

This will have to be a debate for another time, but honestly, I don't see too many people whine about P2's battle system and I hardly feel it was the issue at hand and not because it was released on a platform that always struggled to keep up with Nintendo's handheld.

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Fair enough. We are apparently the exceptions to each other's experience which is very peculiar. I know "it's just like your opinion man" but it's still weird you have literally never seen anyone talk about how tedious Card collecting and Negotiating is, especially in IS where everybody has four Negotiation options. The Encounter Rate was also obscene.

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The split makes sense to me, it just seems weird that as something that changed history, Another World wasn't sent to the Darkness Beyond Time like all other discarded timelines. I mean a big part of CC's plot is concerned about explaining that this is the reason why time travel can be be morally reprehensible, but then it also softens the blow cause apparently beings from these discarded timelines can not only become aware they're from a discarded timeline but can some how still interact with the new timeline such as what Lavos did. The only justification I can think of is the concept of a multiverse and thus natural splits in the timeline such as a timeline where Lavos never showed up and the Reptite's won the war against primitive man can exist in an alternate timeline, but when you actually start physically changing history through time travel, it causes the discarded future events to go to the DBT. While that makes sense to me, it still wouldn't solve the issue of Kid causing the split timeline by saving Serge as it would still mean that Another World should have been sent to the DBT, but it would also likely mean that things like the Dead Sea wouldn't happen because Sege's life being saved shouldn't really change Crono and his team's actions in the first game.

I'm going to have to take extra special attention when I get to the Dead Sea and Chronopolis to see if there is an explanation for this paradox. As it stands, the only way I can see it working out is if FATE and Chronopolis' research into controlling time somehow allowed them to stabilize their timeline and prevent it from going to DBT and shifted Home World into a pocket dimension that works like one of these natural alternate dimension/timelines.

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There's definitely a multiverse. I think I totally missed this my first run but in Chronopolis you find a terminal that talks about Radical Dreamers and the heroes even say this is a third universe. There were also multipleMaguses in the special DS ending so far as I recall.

But FATE specifically monitors both universes according to the Chronopolis phantoms. Remember the Dragon Gods are also all encountered across both Home and Another World even though they fuse and create Terra Tower in Another World. And destroying the Dead Sea in Home effects it in Another. The two universes just seem to be totally connected which is presumably why you can travel from one to another but theAmulet wouldn't let you go to, say, Radical Dreamers.

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Speaking of which, I just got to 2300 AD and I still find it odd that the first arc of teh game is "time travel made everything worse!" and then the next thing is "we must time travel to make everything better!"

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I wouldn't say it was about making things worse, just more about showing how time travel can be dangerous if you muck up your own history.

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Also I adore Marle's little "yipee!" victory animation. I had forgotten about that. Also forgot Marle isn't even her name. I guess I know what Nadia's Bell was named after now. The bell which will never ring again. DO YOU FEEL BAD YET?

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Yeah CT takes on some darker tones when you play it again after CC. One thing I did like about CC is that it made Ayla's arc way more interesting.

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CT let's you see the whole world, but many of the eras are fairly homogeneous within the context of their era, but CC has a denser culture since a big theme of the game is dealing with racial and cultural clashes. Crono's timeline has the whole Humans vs. Mystics thing, but outside of the Mystics being bitter about the war in 600AD before you change things around, its a one sided issue whereas it's pretty obvious in CC's world that Humans and Demi-Humans have some serious issues with each other.

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Speaking of which, I'm surprised you don't hate the Dwarves. Everybody hates the Dwarves and says the attack on Water Dragon Isle is one of CC's biggest storytelling flubs because they think the dwarves are supposed to be presented as voicing the themes of the games and intentions of the writers.

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If memory serves me correctly, the Dragons ended up being the Reptite's equivalent of FATE in their alternate timeline where Terra Tower exists. FATE defeated it and then split them into six pieces to better control them. Then they created Harle as a seventh Dragon in order to have a means of manipulating FATE/Lynx's plan in order to restore themselves. Course all of this ends up being somewhat moot, cause not only are the Dragonians extinct by CC's time, whom the Dragons were the ward for, but the Dragons have become corrupted by the Time Devourer/Lavos so they're just causing problems for the sake of causing problems.

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There are normal dragons too though like Draggy and the ones you feed at Viper Manor. That's what I meant.

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In my own playthrough, I finished Ft. Dragonia and completely forgot how many bosses were in that place. As usual, I had issues with the Yellow elemental puzzle cause the game never tells you how Select let's you change your party order. I also still vehemently hate the Sun boss cause that guy is so tanky and hits like a truck. Not to mention when he just gets two to three turns in a row that all change the elemental field. I'm also reminded why I dislike the "Change Innate Element" elements cause like most status magic, bosses get immunity. Would have made that fight easier if I could change the bosses element to black.

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Huh, I never figured out Select was how you did that. I just ran back and forth to the Record of Fate and changed party leaders that way. Good to know for future, thanks.

And that Gun bastard is so weird. As you said, he's just tanky but naturally you see your best moves doing very little so you figure he must have a weakness somewhere and you're just not hitting it. But apparently not. He's just a weirdly strong asshole.

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I've only been Lynx for a little while and I'm already liking the scenario much better. The gauntlet of bosses skyrocketed my level so Lynx feels significantly stronger than Serge despite having the same stats, and frankly, Lynx starts off with the ability to build a much stronger team than poor Serge does if you make too many bad choices like I did. Harle lacks Kid's Pilfer ability, and it's annoying she's the same element as Lynx, but she is a much more competent fighter and her two personal Techs are extremely good.

Sprigg always surprises me, and she's a far better example of a novelty character done right. She's not annoying and she plays uniquely with her shape shifting skills. She's an interesting take on Gau honestly, and it's fun keeping her in the party to build up her monster repertoire despite my favorite monsters being relegated to NG+. Radius is also much better than I give him credit for, with the exception of his low health, he can take and dish a good beating. I'm starting to think the Devs were bias in regards of the Green Element cause it just seems to me like all of the game's best or most interesting party members share this element. Karsh, Glenn, Radius, Razzly, Sprigg, and even that freaking Turnip are interesting and damn good party members.

I'm off to Termina, but I'm stopping by a few places to gain more doppelganger forms for Sprigg since I forgot she learns the form of any monster she beats. The Forget-Me-Not-Pot simply allows other characters to do this for her as well.

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i really liked using Radius and Norris in my first run. I used them all the way up to Miguel I think. Sprigg is interesting too and I'm looking forward to testing her out more in NG+.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

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The split makes sense to me, it just seems weird that as something that changed history, Another World wasn't sent to the Darkness Beyond Time like all other discarded timelines. I mean a big part of CC's plot is concerned about explaining that this is the reason why time travel can be be morally reprehensible, but then it also softens the blow cause apparently beings from these discarded timelines can not only become aware they're from a discarded timeline but can some how still interact with the new timeline such as what Lavos did. The only justification I can think of is the concept of a multiverse and thus natural splits in the timeline such as a timeline where Lavos never showed up and the Reptite's won the war against primitive man can exist in an alternate timeline, but when you actually start physically changing history through time travel, it causes the discarded future events to go to the DBT. While that makes sense to me, it still wouldn't solve the issue of Kid causing the split timeline by saving Serge as it would still mean that Another World should have been sent to the DBT, but it would also likely mean that things like the Dead Sea wouldn't happen because Sege's life being saved shouldn't really change Crono and his team's actions in the first game.

I'm going to have to take extra special attention when I get to the Dead Sea and Chronopolis to see if there is an explanation for this paradox. As it stands, the only way I can see it working out is if FATE and Chronopolis' research into controlling time somehow allowed them to stabilize their timeline and prevent it from going to DBT and shifted Home World into a pocket dimension that works like one of these natural alternate dimension/timelines.

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There's definitely a multiverse. I think I totally missed this my first run but in Chronopolis you find a terminal that talks about Radical Dreamers and the heroes even say this is a third universe. There were also multiple Maguses in the special DS ending so far as I recall.

But FATE specifically monitors both universes according to the Chronopolis phantoms. Remember the Dragon Gods are also all encountered across both Home and Another World even though they fuse and create Terra Tower in Another World. And destroying the Dead Sea in Home effects it in Another. The two universes just seem to be totally connected which is presumably why you can travel from one to another but the Amulet wouldn't let you go to, say, Radical Dreamers.

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I guess I should rephrase this, I get that there are alternate realities, what I don't understand is what separates a Dimension like Another World from say, the bad future Crono destroyed and sent to the DBT? It's stated in CC that when a time traveler changes history, the old timeline gets discarded into the DBT, so how is it possible that Another World avoids this fate and instead, Home World becomes becomes a new dimension instead? As far as I can remember, it's either caused by something Chronopolis is doing, or it has something to do with Serge's contact with the Frozen Flame. It's just a weird inconsistency that probably has an answer within the game but I forgot.

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CT let's you see the whole world, but many of the eras are fairly homogeneous within the context of their era, but CC has a denser culture since a big theme of the game is dealing with racial and cultural clashes. Crono's timeline has the whole Humans vs. Mystics thing, but outside of the Mystics being bitter about the war in 600AD before you change things around, its a one sided issue whereas it's pretty obvious in CC's world that Humans and Demi-Humans have some serious issues with each other.

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Speaking of which, I'm surprised you don't hate the Dwarves. Everybody hates the Dwarves and says the attack on Water Dragon Isle is one of CC's biggest storytelling flubs because they think the dwarves are supposed to be presented as voicing the themes of the games and intentions of the writers.

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The Water Dragon Isle section is pretty heavy handed about the themes and I agree with the detractors that it could have been handled better. On the other hand, dealing with the Dwarves in the Hydra Marshes is much better, and I get that Kato was trying to imply that the Dwarves actions on Water Dragon Isle is simply them just doing what humans do. The real issue here is actually the faries basically blaming humans instead of the dwarves. I was actually expecting a bigger scene with Razzly there but didn't quite get what I was hoping for. Again, this is where having a smaller cast that is more involved in the events of the plot would have come in handy.

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There are normal dragons too though like Draggy and the ones you feed at Viper Manor. That's what I meant.

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It is very likely that Draggy and the Dragon Horses are descended from the Reptite timeline, which is why they are unique to the islands.

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Huh, I never figured out Select was how you did that. I just ran back and forth to the Record of Fate and changed party leaders that way. Good to know for future, thanks.

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I remember it being a button but usually it's like triangle or something. I didn't want to use the Records of Fate cause that would have gotten tedious.

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And that Gun bastard is so weird. As you said, he's just tanky but naturally you see your best moves doing very little so you figure he must have a weakness somewhere and you're just not hitting it. But apparently not. He's just a weirdly strong asshole.

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Yeah, as far as I cant tell, his only weakness is his low HP compared to every other boss in the dungeon. The Black and Green Innate bosses had loads of health and I was dishing close to 300hp of damage at times, but I don't think I ever did more than 40hp of damage to this guy, but his battle didn't last any longer than the others. It was just getting annoying how he doesn't take much damage from the one element he was actually weak to.

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i really liked using Radius and Norris in my first run. I used them all the way up to Miguel I think. Sprigg is interesting too and I'm looking forward to testing her out more in NG+.

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I've always liked Norris cause his story was interesting and he's the first competent Yellow innate that isn't annoying. I still love the fact you get his Lv. 7 Tech from his Another World self. Radius is pretty good as well, it's just his low health makes him a liability at times like the Garia battle or heaven help you if you brought him for the Dario fight. Still, he's a great damage dealer.

I can't really say about why Another World continues to exist apart from my earlier speculation it has to do with FATE and everything else simply anchoring the two universes together. The two universes have parts that are missing from each other and simply aren't "whole" without the other.



Man, I forgot about how Trigger has the worst (in terms of "in-universe perspective") party switching system ever.

Sorry Lucca, I want you to spend all your time alone here in this void of nothingness with only a crazy old man and that magic thing to keep you company. We'll be be back for you eventually maybe. What, take you home and just pick you up from there? That's madness.

^ I always feel bad when I complete 2300AD and get Robo cause I'm like, "Hey Robo, I'm happy I was able to get you out of your terrible timeline and away from your genocidal brothers... BUT the next area features enemies that are extremely weak to Magic and since you don't really have any, I'm going to have to leave you in this bleak creepy place at the end of time with a creepy old man and his bloodthirsty companion. Have fun, I'll be back when I need to go to 65 Million BC!"

In CC news, I had a serious party member collectathon going here. Recruited Van, who I forgot was another Green Innate, but despite never using him much, I do appreciate his story. Picked up Zappa, whom I'll likely never use but hey, I've got better access to a Blacksmith in dungeons now! Norris joined, and he is surprisingly more cooperative than I remember. Despite Porre turning Termina into a police state, the soldiers are not nearly as bad as the rest of the world makes them out to be. Granted, there is more of a carefree atmosphere in Another World and Home World definitely feels like a trouttier place than there though, but that's not just because Porre is here. Though listening to comments by the troops and Norris makes me really wonder what's going on in the Zenan Mainland, cause I've noticed several NPCs mention that El Nido is significantly more stable and peaceful than the mainland. Wonder what Dalton is up to?

I had to reset once cause I forgot to spend the night at Marbule to get the extra scene with Irenes. Did my shenanigans on the S.S. Zelbess and was able to recruit Sneff and Irenes. I totally screwed up the Grand Slam cause I made the rookie mistake of forgetting that I can't reuse the same monsters for each battle, so I'll wait for Janice cause I need to recruit some better monsters. I'll be heading to the Dead Sea, except I remembered I'll need to collect the Einhanzer first to deal with the Masemune. While Radius is a must, I'm thinking of doing something novel and putting Zappa in my party since he was a Deva along with Radius and Garai. Maybe I'll get some more dialogue. This goes along with my plan to try more party builds cause I have a really bad habit of just keeping characters like Kid and Harle in my active party all the time. I will probably bring her back on when I do the Dead Sea though, as well as Norris. Mainly cause her Lv. 5 tech may be useful for the battle with Miguel.

I didn't feel like I got too much done last night.

So I went to El Nido Triangle and picked up the Star Fragment for the purpose of recruiting the alien dude. Damn does he have some serious health, took forever to kill him and I'm now realizing this evening that I will need to acquire some Trap Elements cause my current repertoire of spells are incredibly inadequate at this point outside of improved healing.

I actually died to Garai, against my better judgement I put Zappa into my party instead of Harle, and while he's pretty decent against the normal enemies, his large amount of HP is about the only thing he had going for him in the battle. Been ages since I saw the Game Over screen in this game, which is actually kind of cool. My second round had Harle back in and the extra damage and use of Diminish to keep his really powerful Holy attack from one-shotting Lynx and Harle proved the deciding factor for this fight.

Two things came up from this scenario:

1) It's incredibly disappointing how underutilized the cast is in terms of extra dialogue or content when present. Zappa was a fellow Deva with Garia and Radius and yet he gets no extra dialogue or anything concerning the fate of one of his fellow comrades. It just feels like a serious wasted opportunity. This reminded me about how much Luccia pops up in the background of several character stories like Grobyc and her involvement with Fargo and his family trouble, and yet she feels like more of a background character than a lot of the cast when it's obvious she should have been playing a larger role cause she's personally involved in so many people's stories.

2) While the ambiguity of Guardia's fall and the fate of the old cast is interesting for me for speculative purposes, I still really wish CC had addressed how the Masemune became an evil sword and how the hell it came to El Nido, cause both aspects are either never touched upon or have flimsy reasoning behind it. I do find it interesting that the Einlanzer is basically the Dragonian Timeline counterpart to the Masemune which would explain why they are opposing weapons, but I still wish that sword had a bit more history to it like the Masemune does. With all that said, the Masemune's role in CC is still pretty cool and sort of just exemplifies how CC does an interesting job of making you want to know more about what happened in the Chrono-verse.

I've been thinking about the prospect of what I would want out of a third Chrono entry if it somehow ever saw the light of day, and I may do a short write up once I finish this playthrough along with some changes I wish I could see in CC if it ever got the remake treatment.

Anyway, I'll be doing the Dead Sea tonight, which I've been super excited for cause it's one of my favorite parts of the game. I can honestly say that as a narrative, CC really starts to pick up once you become Lynx. The events after Viper Manor up to that point are not quite as interesting as the stuff that follows.

I think one of the most clever things CC does with its story is how it subverts the usual alternate dimension/timeline shenanigans by reversing the reveal. In most stories that deal with these topics, the story let's you follow the perspective characters daily life and see their world in order to build up a baseline so you can see the serious contrast once they leap to the other verse. In CC, Alternate World is explored first and becomes the baseline so when you finally do get a chance to return home and explore it, you get the contrast from the opposite end. Made even more delicious because CC will eventually reveal that Serge's world is the abnormal timeline and the world he stepped into is the actual main timeline. Something really fascinating I noticed while replaying. I may add this observation and few more into the CC entry on my Top 100 list.

The Dead Sea is completed and Serge has returned to Another World only to learn Lynx in his body has started a smear campaign against his good name.

The Dead Sea has always been one of my favorite parts of this game. It's the moment long time Chrono fans realize the connection between both titles, and it's the point that turns the whole franchise on its head. Oddly enough, the place kind of reminded me of Old Milita in the Encephalon Dive in Xenosaga Episode 1 in terms of design and feel. Not surprising I guess. I still find the Ghost Children to be rather chilling aspects of the whole scene and I was happy to have some extra dialogue by bringing Radius along when the party discovers what happened to Lord Viper and his entourage.

The joy of knowing what's coming meant I took down Miguel with little trouble. His whole combat shlick is about abusing elemental weaknesses so Diminish does wonders for this fight. I also simply lucked out and Miguel kept going after Norris and changing his innate element to be weak to his attacks instead of going after the the more dangerous and "low hanging fruit" that was Harle and Lynx.

After that segment, I went to Ft. Dragonia to get Drakky and instantly regretted bot coming here before the Dead Sea because the place is filled with Denodorite, which is needed to make the second to last tier of equipment which would have made that section of the game so much easier. I think I make this mistake every playthrough as well.

As of now, I'm trying to figure out who is going to be in my final party for the last stretch of the game. I mean Fargo is a given since I need a thief, but debating whether I should drop him for Kid when she finally comes back towards the end of the game. Nikki is a no go as well as Korcha, and while I've been loving me some Radius and Norris, part of me wants to wait and see how I feel about Karsh since I remember him being on par with Glenn as a fighter. Probably the only nice aspect of not going my normal route in this game is that I am now forced to really consider who my final party will be.

In truth, CC's cast feels like the early Suikoden games where there are a few outstanding characters, a few absolutely awful ones (though not as bad as Suikoden 1) and the rest are interchangeable and largely middling.

You know, the one issue I do have with games with super large playable casts is when the game dumps like five to ten of them on you at once. Tactical RPGs, Suikoden, and now Chrono Cross, just have some annoying points where like seven people all join up and you only have like two slots to play any of them, Make the experience a bit jarring...

Anyway, I've returned to Another World and rescued local damsel in distress Riddel from her home. This netted me no less than seven new party members including Lord Viper and his entire entourage, Grobyc, Orcha, and Fargo. This is still one of the cooler parts of the game thoughm despite my minor gripe. Now I get to do my least favorite part of the game which is hunting down all of the Dragons. On the brightside, I have fulfilled all the requirement for the Marbule quest so that will be pretty awesome but I generally never cared for fetch quests like these.

One gripe I will bring up for CC is that I feel like the game could have done a better job justifying some of the bosses within it. Like I was kind of dumbfounded within the Hydra Marshes cause the Dragonfly monster nor the Ultros wannabe didn't count as bosses despite being significantly harder than most of the creatures in the area including the actual bosses. Yet the game is filled with bosses for the sake of having them. I was starting to get annoyed in Ft. Dragonia when I kept running into some silly guardian boss. I was more weird out when I had to fight that Robot thing in the Dead Sea, and last night, before I even touched the Orcha fight, I had to fight some giant cockroach thing that came out of nowhere. The game just has too many filler bosses and I get their connected to the leveling system, but I feel like this could have been handled a bit easier and we could remove a few of these fillers. It doesn't make the game feel exciting, it makes it feel padded. Granted, a lot of JRPG do this. It's just been getting annoying having like three or four boss battles in a row and like two of them feel unnecessary for the plot.

I mentioned before how I didn't particularly care for anyone in the plot, but I was actually wrong about that. I completely forgot how much of a soft spot I have for Harle and I was actually moved by here scene with Starky where she laments the fact she has to move forward with her plan despite wanting to stay with Serge and the others. Whereas Kid is emotionally fiery, and thus her emotional swings feel justified, Harle is a character who keeps her feelings in check and to see a scene where she finally shows a vulnerable side is very charming to me. She is also an excellent character to boot and now she's gone from my party...

I have decided that Karsh is a great replacement for Glenn, especially since I believe he's a better mage than him, so he's in the running for my final party; but I'm actually thinking of running with the game's suggestion of Fargo and Lord Viper for the moment. As it stands, depending on how the extra levels have helped her, I may throw Kid back in once she returns to the party, but Fargo may end up replacing her at which point it's either Norris or Karsh to take my third point as the team of Lynx/Karsh/Norris was pretty badass in Viper Manor.

I'm still trying to figure out where the game jumps to the second disc. I thought it happened earlier but I'm down to the last few major quests and I still haven't been prompted yet. I'm also making way better time than I had thought, which is surprisingly since the opposite was happening with my last title Arc the Lad 2. I think I just broke the thirty hour mark in CC and I'm not far from the end, whereas I'm like forty hours into AtL2 and I don't think I'm even a quarter of the way into the game yet. Not complaining here, just a bit surprised and being reminded how long it's been since I really played this game. On the flip side, this file has gone by so fast, I'm tempted to hit NG+ and do a few things in there as well.

Karsh is the man and was part of my original endgame trio.

What does the bit about Lavos in the Dead Sea say? Did you find it?

Also apparently a dead Johnny can be found there which is appropriate since I just got done racing that jerk in my current CT run. (it's going slowly. It's not a priority for me)

You're totally right about the filler bosses though. I had forgotten about that until my last run. There are also a lot of bosses who don't give Star Levels in the game but they're usually optional like the octopus or Dario. I suppose in NG+ they add up to 99 and then you're invincible.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

What does the bit about Lavos in the Dead Sea say? Did you find it?

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Nothing particularly special. It basically was an analysis of what Lavos was. Parasite living within the planet since 65 million B.C. Then the computer shorts out.

Quote:

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Also apparently a dead Johnny can be found there which is appropriate since I just got done racing that jerk in my current CT run. (it's going slowly. It's not a priority for me)

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Yes there is, but I failed to find him. I did spot the race car Crono used though.

Quote:

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You're totally right about the filler bosses though. I had forgotten about that until my last run. There are also a lot of bosses who don't give Star Levels in the game but they're usually optional like the octopus or Dario. I suppose in NG+ they add up to 99 and then you're invincible.

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From what I've read, there are 45 Star levels per playthrough regardless of which choices you make. You'll be nearly invincible around the time you get to the 60s except against some of the end game stuff which isn't much different from CT.

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Didn't get much accomplished last night, mostly went to Guldove to get the plot coupons needed to start talking to the Dragons and open the quest to get the Chrono Cross. I did revisit Viper Manor and obtained Viper's sword, Zoah and Norris' Lv. 7 Techs, and unlocked Karsh's quest for his Lv. 7 Tech, though I'm likely going to fight some of the dragons first cause Solt and Peppor are pretty nasty for this particular fight.

Not sure what order to do the dragons, except I usually leave Black and Sky for the end. I'm actually trying to remember how to even get to Gaia's Navel.

Ugh, all six dragons down. The most difficult was the Sky Dragon, though Green Dragon was the only one I reset for cause Fargo couldn't steal from him and his Green Plate is one of the most valuable of the bunch. I wish I had reset for the Fire Dragon cause I somehow managed to steal his other drop, which is a decent piece of armor for kid characters, but frankly the Red Plate is a lot more valuable.

I did complete the Marbule quest, which was pretty nice, and I even took down Solt and Peppor for Karsh's final tech and to open the way for the Dario Quest.

I recruited Leah, Miki, and Steena; I find it highly amusing that of the Miki/Nikki duo, you end up recruiting their opposite world counterparts. Even more amusing when you think how the more well-adjusted versions don't bother to help you. Steena is one of those characters I wish was better than she is. She tricks into thinking she's a fighter when she's really a squishy mage, but I give her props for her Techs all being summons of bosses. Speaking of which, I finally got Serge's final Tech as Lynx, and it's so sad you only get to use for a few places before you switch over. I frankly found Forever Zero to be a much cooler looking Tech than Flying Arrow.

I got to the Dark Serge fight at Ft. Dragonia Home World so I can finally change back, and completely forgot about the fight, so I ended up facing him with a very ill-prepared party, and I wanted to get a hold of some of his high level spells since I've been kind of lax on that front. I did acquire a few of the weaker summons like Mothership and Sanja. Anyway, I'll come back to thump him with my All-Star Team of Lynx/Serge, Fargo, and Karsh.

I'm going to do Dario's quest after I change back and then work on getting a few of the Rainbow Gear. I kind of want to savor Chronopolis so I don't wish to rush it just yet.

In story observations, I feel like Fargo's past is easily one of the few untold stories in the game that I would really like to know. I'm assuming Nikki's play at the Marbule concert is a variation of how Fargo met Zelbess but I still want to know why Fargo and Viper are enemies, how Zelbess died,and the circumstances that led to Fargo being separated from his kids as well as his falling out with Marbule. It's questions like these that make me wish the game had focused more on some of the characters. Like you won't even get all of Dario's backstory unless you recruit Glenn and do Karsh's backstory. Yet, Fargo's story still has several unanswered questions that kind of nag at me, and I feel like CC's narrative could have been stronger had the game given it more of a spotlight. Lord Viper is another figure that bothers me cause for how much importance is placed on him in the story, he doesn't have much of his own story and is more of a plot device for other characters. It would have been nice to give him more characterization and maybe delve into why he wanted the Frozen Flame and was even willing to join forces with Lynx to seek it out.

Well silly me forgot to save after beating the Sky Dragon, so I had to fight him again but this time he was a bit easier and I made sure to bring an UltraNova Trap with me for the fight.

Decided that since I was going to need to bring Riddel for the Dario fight and I only had one Black Plate, I should probably fight him as Lynx. Dario is still one of the nastier bosses in this game with his high defense and attack power combined with his nasty counters and Tech skills. I do find it amusing that Dario's Techs are basically Dash and Gash, which I believe is Glenn's Lv. 7 Tech, Shockwave, which is from Crono, and then Conducta Rod which is eerily similar to a Dual Tech between Crono and Frog in CT.

Despite getting killed from Dario's combo attack midway in the fight, Riddel with the Black Plate turned out to be the MVP of the fight since she could tank all of his nasty magic/Tech skills and her high magic combined with innate white allowed her to do far more consistent damage than poor Serge and Karsh.

Killed Dark Serge faster than I meant to and got the next major "Btw, this is a CT sequel" spiel from the Dragons. Became Serge again and got all of my old party members back, which is pretty anti-climatic for me since all the good members on this file were already on my team. After that, I spent the rest of my evening collecting the Master Hammer for Prism gear, and various Lv. 7 techs for some of my party. I still need to drop by Another World's Guldove to collect Mel and Orlha, though I did remember to pick up Turnip. I think Funguy was the only character I missed on this file that I could have recruited but that's largely due to me never bothering with his quest and a certain action that is easy to do in Nikki's quest to enter Viper Manor removes the easy way to recruit him.