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Neither Serapy and FE are trolls. They are just members who enjoy theories (like me) and have the strength to post them (unlike me), it's nice to interpret things originally, and some of their theories make a lot of sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Trolls deliberatly cause trouble within the forum and are genuingly a lot more offensive to others.
Note: If your comment was a light-hearted joke, then that's ok.;)
Ak and Sir Bahaumt: Your comments here are what's trollish.
Fine, sorry, but the point I'm trying to put across is that I'm tired of the ridiculous theories around this game. The first few were funny, fun to debunk, but the fact is that if he would even believe one of his theories he would have to have an IQ lower than 70.
Which leads me to believe that he doesn't believe in them himself, which then brings me to my main point:
These threads in itself is Trolling.
But you're the enforcer here, so I'll do as I'm told, as always.
You could just...you know...not read them. If they bother you. :|
I don't believe that Aerith's Knight was actually insulting Serapy as a whole, just this thread. Didn't you really mean to say this AK?
And I must agree that this photo does sum up my feelings towards this theory. Just because you don't see Squall in the homemade video does not mean he is not at the party. Seeing that the battery cut and the timer on the video, it would seem that they had been filming for a while. So, this theory is basically based on what is 2 minutes of video footage, completely ignoring what happens throughout the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerith's Knight
And it also appears to defy the laws of physics. A holographic device does not have mass and therefore cannot apply force on another object. And here is photographic evidence of Squall pulling Rinoa towards him.
Attachment 29562
Attachment 29563
Attachment 29564
Apart from this, one has to take into account the first FMV that one sees when finishing the game. Here is Rinoa when she thinks Squall is dead:
Attachment 29565
Look, unhappy face. :cry:
Then she hugs him, and the clouds unfurl, and they leave the horrible place and arrive at the nice friendly field by the orphanage. And then Rinoa looks down on him, and she has:
Attachment 29566
HAPPY FACE :)
So, I doubt she'd suddenly have happy face if he was dead, would she?
Which is an assumption but the fact still remains that he was invisible in the whole camcorder scene, except Rinoa.Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne supernova
The thing is that the battery flat indicator exactly appeared when Rinoa is casting her finger sign symbolism. I`ve re-checked the frames to make sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne supernova
I was thinking about it today, so I`ve concluded that it`s to emphasise the symbolism that Rinoa was using ...
Anyway
The camcorder scene was part of the semi-final FMV.
The entire FMV is 7 minutes and 52 seconds long.
The camcorder scene is 2 minutes and 49 seconds long.
It would be kind of unnecessary for SquareSoft to extend the camcorder scene anyway.
Therefore, everything disclosed in that FMV is important to acknowledge because, obviously, the ending of any story is usually crucial. That, of course, applies in this case.
Enlighten me. As far as I know, it`s impossible to tell what actually happened to Squall after the 'Rinoa approaching unconscious Squall on the flower side' scene. Afterward, we get to view the Seifer scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne supernova
Obviously, you would assume that he got revived and that he being the real Squall to publicly meet Rinoa at the end. However, you have to consider why SquareSoft didn`t inform us about what actually happened to Squall after that 'flower field' scene.
The laws of physics used Final Fantasy VIII is quite different when compared to our reality, though. The differences are obviously time influences, magic, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne supernova
In your first walkthrough at the car park, you probably thought that image was the actual Cid, until when some student came and said that it was just a clone device. Yes? SquareSoft initially wanted you to believe that it was really him in the first place. So, it`s possible that SquareSoft used the same scenario with Squall at the end... due to that excuse and most of all, not enough information wasn`t given --
Hmm, I`m pretty sure that the face you posted doesn`t look like a happy face at all, more like a curious/semi-sad face. Still, her expression is not strong enough to show that he`s alive. Who wouldn`t look at the face of a dead person after it has passed away in a second?Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne supernova
The desert island where Squall was standing on. He collapsed and he`s still on that island ... So when Rinoa came over, a few second later; he died, the island disappeared and everything went back to normal.
Why? If he`s dead, there`s no reason for him to be still on the desert island. The whole desert island was just an illusion.
Ironically, Squall dying scene is in the same FMV as Laguna visiting the grave of Raine. Same date and fmv? That`s strange.
Before Ultimecia`s fight, Laguna told the party to think of each other strongly (friendship, memories, love, etc) when dealing with certain situations. I'm assuming that you have to be conscious to think like that in order to keep 100% conscious and not become lost. Well, unfortunately, it was kinda too late for Squall. Because, if you become unconscious, I don`t think you will have enough energy to think of friendship, memories and love strongly.
So ... he became unconscious, for god`s know how long.
I blame Ellone for that part. If she didn`t leave Squall in the first place, then maybe Squall would have became different.
Anyway, one thing I just found out today:
At the end of the camcorder FMV, where Rinoa was using her figner sign symbolism and then she used that symbolism again in the next FMV. I gave it a thought today... At first I thought it was the exact same motion (1st finger and 2nd finger) and that the 2nd finger was meant to be repeated for the purpose of showing Squall, but after finding out today, it apparently wasn`t.
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/436...erenceshr7.gif
Both shots took place when she casts the symbolism *I`ve made sure that the frames are accurate to match*
Both shots are from different angles but look carefully.
I'll give you one answer: in Shot 1, you can clearly see her teeth and in Shot 2, her teeth isn`t displayed and even in the whole final FMV (not that camcorder one.)
Any explanation on this one? I think I have one but I probably will update it later, so here goes:
During the development process of FF8, the developers set the camcorder FMV as the very final FMV as accorded to the script. However, after undergoing testing to make sure everything is working as intended, they have realised something missing... so then they have decided to add the game a better ending, making Squall appear... to satisfy players more. Because they didn`t want the same thing to happen to FF8 from FF7 (Aerith dying). They add the image of Squall in a new FMV and polish the motion of Rinoa. Polish Rinoa? Why not? They have polished the look of Squall in the final release, I guess because the look of Squall in Trial wasn`t appealing.
I don`t know, there could be many possibilities e.g. time paradox ... such as influence from time compression.
Squall was not some freak vision of Rinoa in the ending, he was perfectly alive and kicking.
I mean, if he were dead, why were all his friends celebrating so joyously? Ok, they beat Ultimecia, but Squall was also the leader of the SeeD's at that point so they would have certainly been a bit more sombre about it, not partying without a care in the world. The reason Square withhold showing Squall until the very last possible moment is for dramatic tension. They know that the player will be wondering what happened in the flower field, so they keep you on your toes about whether or not her survived. Then in the very end they reveal him to you, showing that he is alive.
This is an incredibly common device in films and tv etc. and something Square have done several times before and since in the exact same way. The camcorder running out of batteries before Selphie moves into position to show Squall is just another added bit of teasing here. The finger movement by Rinoa we see in the very end is the same one we saw on the camcorder, just from another angle. The teeth being shown was just a tiny muckup on Square's side. Square is human too you know, every tiny mistake is not necessarily a deep clue.
The idea that Rinoa used a clone device is utterly absurd. There's absolutely nothing in the game indicating that such a device even exists (the Cid 'clone' was not shown to be able to physically interact as has been pointed out) nor is there anything indicating that she used one. Everything, including the music and general atmosphere indicate Squall was real.
The fact of the matter is that you can't even give one single piece of evidence towards your 'theory' which doesn't amount to "we don't have enough information".
Well, Rinoa was a sorceress. So was Ultimecia. Ultimecia was insanely mad, wasn`t she? Right, so if Rinoa and Ultimecia were in the same family, there`s a chance that Rinoa can be crazy at certain times too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Wasn`t Hyne crazy too? I mean, it must have taken him the guts to cut himself, tearing his parts off ... sacrificing himself.
As for Squall being alive at the end, well that`s an assumption.
Which is a valid point. But consider this: if time gets skipped occasionally during the FMV. I.e. we didn`t get to view what happened to Squall after the flower field scene and he somehow appeared at the end = so we assume that time gets skipped. There are other things that get skipped as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
So, how much time did it take from the flower field scene to the Seifer`s scene in reality? Approximately 1 minute? 1 day? 1 week? 1 month?
And how much time did it take from the previous scenes to the party scene?
My point is that if a friend of yours died for something he loved doing, then perhaps ... let`s say 1 month later since his death, you would be feeling better, not exactly sombre but better. It`s not like the co party went partying after the day of Ultimecia`s defeat, right?
If I recall correctly, Seifer was injured not too long before the entrance of Ultimecia`s, so how long did he get better? Who took him to a doctor? That must have taken some time.
Yes, the same thing happened with Edea-Ultimecia. At first, players were introduced to Edea, we all thought that Edea was the main villain of the game, right? Until later in the game, we just found out that it wasn`t actually Edea who made certain things happen, it was after all Ultimecia. And that Edea was Matron who raised the co party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Same thing could be applied to Squall at the end, which I agreed. However, consider:
1) This game contains quite many MacGuffins, Squall at the end could be one because not enough information were given (his health and the time differences of each scene in the FMV.)
2) There are indications that something will happen in the future timelines. So, that`s another thing Square wanted us to think about. Asking for evidence is meaningless.
If Square has done something like this before, then why are the other FFs more clear? There`s a good chance that FF8 was just an experiment by Square.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
The flat battery indicator and the casting time of Rinoa`s finger sign symbolism exactly appeared at the same time. I think it`s something to do with symbolism (I made a thread about it back then.) You see her finger sign so many times in the game = too many coincidences = likely to have some meaning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
How can it be a mistake? Why didn`t they just ... like ... copy the animation of Rinoa from the camcorder scene and then paste it into the final scene?Quote:
The teeth being shown was just a tiny muckup on Square's side. Square is human too you know, every tiny mistake is not necessarily a deep clue.
But this clone device does exist, sure, it didn`t tell us whether does it have the ability to physically interact or not. Being said that, it doesn`t outright the fact that it can`t physically interact due to lack of information.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
If only Square told us more information about what happened to Squall and R=U. These information are very crucial, even Square knows this.
Well, we don`t exactly know what happened in the FMV`s timeline. Anything can happen, no evidence required.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Um, I`ve just posted events from the game (which are evidence), and I`ve made a interpretation/speculation of those events. If I had evidence for my interpretation/speculation, then it becomes entirely fact. This is why it`s a theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
There's no evidence that Rinoa and Ultimecia are in the same family, nor that Hyne was crazy (the story of him cutting off his skin is probably allegorical and not necessarily 100% fact). In other words you are saying "it might be possible because we don't have enough information".Quote:
Well, Rinoa was a sorceress. So was Ultimecia. Ultimecia was insanely mad, wasn`t she? Right, so if Rinoa and Ultimecia were in the same family, there`s a chance that Rinoa can be crazy at certain times too.
Wasn`t Hyne crazy too? I mean, it must have taken him the guts to cut himself, tearing his parts off ... sacrificing himself.
As for Squall being alive at the end, well that`s an assumption.
Again all you are saying is "we don't have enough information so anything could be true".Quote:
Which is a valid point. But consider this: if time gets skipped occasionally during the FMV. I.e. we didn`t get to view what happened to Squall after the flower field scene and he somehow appeared at the end = so we assume that time gets skipped. There are other things that get skipped as well.
So, how much time did it take from the flower field scene to the Seifer`s scene in reality? Approximately 1 minute? 1 day? 1 week? 1 month?
And how much time did it take from the previous scenes to the party scene?
My point is that if a friend of yours died for something he loved doing, then perhaps ... let`s say 1 month later since his death, you would be feeling better, not exactly sombre but better. It`s not like the co party went partying after the day of Ultimecia`s defeat, right?
If I recall correctly, Seifer was injured not too long before the entrance of Ultimecia`s, so how long did he get better? Who took him to a doctor? That must have taken some time.
More to the point though, when a character dies in an FF game, Square have ALWAYS made a big point about it, showing the reactions of other characters. If they wanted us to think he was dead they wouldn't have shown a celebratory victory showing everyone totally happy. Squall might have been dead for a week or so after the Garden party (why would they wait longer to celebrate?) but then it's likely they would still have had some sort of commemoration for Squall. If they wanted us to think he was dead they wouldn't skip the commemoration and then show him appearing alive. Square might have been ambiguous in other FF's but never misleading.
However the main issue here is that your entire argument is "we don't have enough information". I'll explain at the end why that means this theory is worthless.
You seem to be confused about what a MacGuffin is. A MacGuffin is something which is used to advance the plot without the details of it being too important (Time compression would be the best FF8 example). Squall appearing at the end, dead or alive, would not be a MacGuffin. The plot is over when you see him! Squall being dead would not be similar to anything Square has ever done. As I said, they have at most been ambiguous, never misleading.Quote:
1) This game contains quite many MacGuffins, Squall at the end could be one because not enough information were given (his health and the time differences of each scene in the FMV.)
2) There are indications that something will happen in the future timelines. So, that`s another thing Square wanted us to think about. Asking for evidence is meaningless.
Whatever indications for the future there are none of them imply that Squall is dead at the end of the game. Asking for evidence is hardly meaningless. I don't mean mathematical proof mind you, but evidence as in 'arguments that aren't based on lack of information' which is the only argument you are using.
Why is that a good chance? Also, the other FF's are not more or less clear. Consider FF9:Quote:
If Square has done something like this before, then why are the other FFs more clear? There`s a good chance that FF8 was just an experiment by Square.
(SPOILER)Square do the exact same thing with Zidane as with Squall. They make it out as if he is dead, then leave you hanging for a long time in the ending not revealing him until the very last moment. The setup is literally identical to FF8. FF8 is not less clear than this.
It's just Square teasing the viewer. They know you're wondering if Squall is out there too, so 'coincidentally' the camcorder runs out before you can see. In any case, 'symbolism' here won't be evidence of Squall being dead.Quote:
The flat battery indicator and the casting time of Rinoa`s finger sign symbolism exactly appeared at the same time. I think it`s something to do with symbolism (I made a thread about it back then.) You see her finger sign so many times in the game = too many coincidences = likely to have some meaning.
Because making an FMV isn't as simple as copying and pasting? Square have made continuity errors in other games too (although I won't mention any since you might call those profound symbolism too).Quote:
How can it be a mistake? Why didn`t they just ... like ... copy the animation of Rinoa from the camcorder scene and then paste it into the final scene?
You say it yourself. Your argument is based on lack of information.Quote:
But this clone device does exist, sure, it didn`t tell us whether does it have the ability to physically interact or not. Being said that, it doesn`t outright the fact that it can`t physically interact due to lack of information.
I.e. "we don't have enough information".Quote:
Well, we don`t exactly know what happened in the FMV`s timeline. Anything can happen, no evidence required.
When it comes literary interpretation "evidence" doesn't mean mathematical proof. It means an argument based on something real (an event in the game, tutorial information, whatever) which can very clearly be interpreted in one direction. You have provided several ingame events sure, but they don't naturally imply what you want them too. You are ONLY able to stretch them since "there is not enough information". Take your clone device for example. We know a device exists which creates a projection of people, but this isn't evidence for your theory because that would require this projection to interact physically which we don't know if it can do. Hence it's not evidence, it's just saying "we don't know for sure so anything could be true".Quote:
Um, I`ve just posted events from the game (which are evidence), and I`ve made a interpretation/speculation of those events. If I had evidence for my interpretation/speculation, then it becomes entirely fact. This is why it`s a theory.
Why is that a worthless argument? Well, let me ask you this: do you think every theory conceivable is equally plausible? Are there theories even you would agree are absurd (Rinoa=Irvine=a cactuar in disguise for example)? If yes, then "we don't have enough information" can even be used to argue for such theories whence it becomes clear it is worthless. If no....well then you are not discussing theories but fanfiction.
The plain matter is that until you provide a piece of evidence (again, not mathematical proof, see above) which isn't based on lack of information, your theory is completely worthless.
I`m tired but I`ll try to finish this post before going off.
The same family, I meant by sorceress wise, obviously not blood related.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
If Hyne didn`t sacrifice himself, then how did he manage to produce sorceresses? I don`t think you can create them by using pure magic ...
A sorceress must pass her powers to some one who is eligible before she peacefully dies. This can be applied to the Hyne`s situtation: he passes his super power over and he`s gone.
SquareSoft obviously knows this. They know this can happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
If some important information is crucial or very subtle, then
why didn`t they clarify so in their Ultimania guide? I`ve read the interviews, and nope, nothing.
The 'they do age' thing in the guide does not even destory R=U, because there are still more info to answer.
So I know what that answer is. It just proves that FF8 is not straightforward as intended by SquareSoft. They want individuals to enjoy the FF8`s plot with thier imaginations.
Not when it`s subtle and cannot be disproved / proved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Well, everybody had to move on. They cannot keep sad all the time, otherwise that would mean no happy ending to FF8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
That`s the problem: each specific event (except the semi-final and final scenes) in the FMV has skipped time, so I don`t know exactly when.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Misleading? So R=U didn`t happen after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Maybe the commemoration for Squall would be Laguna visiting Raine at her grave? Squall dying and Laguna visiting Raine in the same FMV? It`s kind of rare for SquareSoft to make coincidences happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
It has been proved that we don`t have enough information, which absolutely made us thinking about them for a second. There`s nothing worthless about that.
Probably. So...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Time compression has effects.
Time compression basically combined everything. Including the people.
Time compression is over thanks to the Co party`s resistance. However, it`s possible to get jet lagged from it = altering the way how people feel a bit. Maybe that`s how the Co party felt better and happy at the party earlier? Under normal circumstances, they shouldn`t be feeling like that at the time ...
The plot will never be over, though. The story will keep getting repeated and repeated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
I`m not sure if they were misleading with the R=S theory ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
There are some, e.g.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Ultimecia`s castle having lions statues.
GF Griever ...
Calling Squall the legendary SeeD
FF8 has been proved not to be straightforward, see my above post as to why Square wouldn`t clarify. -- Leaving it up to our imaginations -- so yes, it`s meaningless to ask for pure evidence ... for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Yes, kind of the same thing happened to Zidane at the end. BUT he wasn`t that subtle, he looked more alive and clear. There were even dialogues of himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
This Squall was far more subtle. There were no scene of what exactly happened to Squall after the flower field scene. His appearance was only in that scene and the very final scene. His body looked still the same when Rinoa revived him. No dialogues of himself. All took in a few seconds ... very subtle.
So how was FF8 not less clear than the FF9`s Zidance incident?
I`ve repeatedly checked the FMV. Yes, both of them appeared at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Actually,
The finger sign symbolism is what Squall saw Rinoa for the first time.
Battery flat indicator means dead. So, that would void the symbolism = Squall`s already dead ...
As for the teasing thing. I`m not sure, because the battery flat indicator is quite subtle; kinda hard to see and not to miss it.
If they wanted to tease us, they would rather make it less subtle ...
If they copied and pasted ... that would of have saved them from wasting more hours re-creating the model of Rinoa just for the final scene ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Not entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
It`s a fact. Each of the events in the FMV has skipped time, there`s a 100% possibility that something happened in between of the events` skipped time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
I understand that, but this is FF8 ... a world of unanswered questions, and questionable authority of SquareSoft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
The clone device was used in non-cgi ingame scene. It`s logical to question the existence of what it might look like in CGI scene. Because the comparsion of the ingame characters and thier CGI scenes is quite noticeable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Even ingame functions are too limited; there are certain things that cannot be used in game. That`s why those things are used in CGI. CGI is more like... less limited.
You would have to connect unanswered events, dialogues, etc. + your logical speculation, and have some patience ... Which would make your theory sound more plausible than those theories like Rinoa=Irvine ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
FF8 being not a straightforward game; you evaluate thier unanswered questions and make serious and convincing theories. Which does not clearly meet the definition of fanfiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Most of my posts came from the game + speculations on how they connected. If I were to make a fanfiction story, I would completely not use any in game event at all and just make up stories.
Thanks for your wonderful opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
I`ve been posting in this section since '06, normally I would never say this but ...
Jeez! I cannot imagine how many time did certain people throw a wall of "GIMME EVIDENCE111!!" text into my ears. @_@
For those of you who plans to play Dissidia Final Fantasy:
(SPOILER)Check out Ultimecia`s spells. ;) Invisible JME!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
This particular theory is based on 3 in-game facts, as far as I can see it.
1) You don't see Squall in one of the end game FMVs.
2) There is a holographic device used at one stage of the game.
3) Squall collapses in one of the FMVs.
So, using these three facts, there has been created a theory that is improbable, implausible and is completely contrary to every other fact in the game, along with the entire underlying theme that the game is trying to convey.
So, let us take fact 2, because it is not subjective and therefore it can be disproved. When you see the holographic projection of Cid, it does not move or talk. One of the SeeDs explicity states that it is a hologram. A dictionary defines a hologram as a
So, using the accepted definition of what a hologram is, one can see that it is in fact made up of light. So, if it is made up of light, it cannot move people around. You have already accepted that Squall pulls Rinoa towards him in the final FMV. This means that he is not a hologram, as he has a physical presence.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Concise Oxford Dictionary
Well, you see, when you make a theory, one has to prove it with facts. And I'm not surprised that many people have 'thrown' that text at you, because most of your theories rely on a wonderful caveat: 'There is not enough information to disprove it completely, therefore it is possible, therefore it can be treated as a fact.'Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
Well, there is nothing that can be disproved completely. One cannot disprove completely that we aren't all living in the Matrix, therefore it is possible, therefore I can go and jump thirty meters and slow down time. Or, what about this one. One cannot disprove completely that this entire world is nothing more than a figment of my imagination, a dream as I travel through timespace, therefore none of you truly exist, and therefore you are all useless.
Just because I cannot completely disprove the facts underlying these theories does not mean that this is a valid theory. A theory is validated not by its inability to be disproved, but its ability to prove itself, and be beyond reasonable doubt. The burden of proof lies on the individual who is trying to prove it. So, you have to prove to us that Squall is dead. You have to prove to us that Rinoa is deranged enough to project a hologram of her dead lover. And, finally, you have to prove that this hologram does not obey the laws of physic and is actually able to manipulate indiduals. Oh, and of course, you have to prove that there is a HOLOGRAPHIC DEVICE in the final FMV. You can see it when you see holographic Cid. Where is it in the FMV then?
Until you are able to prove all these things beyond reasonable doubt, then I will have to concur with Sir Bahamut on the worth of this theory.
Or there ISN'T anything ultrasubtle hidden in the game. You certainly can't prove that Square's omission of crucial revelations in the Ultimania indicates that there ARE crucial revelations still to be found.Quote:
So I know what that answer is. It just proves that FF8 is not straightforward as intended by SquareSoft. They want individuals to enjoy the FF8`s plot with thier imaginations.
Circular reasoning. You can't use Squall's apparent ultra-subtle death as proof that Square are subtle about character deaths sometimes.Quote:
Not when it`s subtle and cannot be disproved / proved.
How do any of these indicate that Squall was dead in the final FMV? I can see your (flawed) reasoning here but these points could only feasibly be used to argue that Squall died some time after the game ends, which is obvious anyway. He's not immortal after all.Quote:
There are some, e.g.
Ultimecia`s castle having lions statues.
GF Griever ...
Calling Squall the legendary SeeD
There were no scenes showing exactly what happened to Zidane after that scene either. Besides that the only difference is that Zidane had dialogue, but that's hardly a massive difference. Certainly doesn't make for anything significantly subtle.Quote:
This Squall was far more subtle. There were no scene of what exactly happened to Squall after the flower field scene. His appearance was only in that scene and the very final scene. His body looked still the same when Rinoa revived him. No dialogues of himself. All took in a few seconds ... very subtle.
So how was FF8 not less clear than the FF9`s Zidance incident?
You're the only one who thinks that scene's subtle you know, so until you find some evidence for your theory (see my last post) you finding it too subtle to be teasing is not a valid argument. As for the symbolism, "battery flat = someone's dead" is far from obvious and is something you read into it so as to support your idea. Anyone can read symbolism into the smallest things if they try hard enough.Quote:
Actually,
The finger sign symbolism is what Squall saw Rinoa for the first time.
Battery flat indicator means dead. So, that would void the symbolism = Squall`s already dead ...
As for the teasing thing. I`m not sure, because the battery flat indicator is quite subtle; kinda hard to see and not to miss it.
If they wanted to tease us, they would rather make it less subtle ...
That's not all though. In order to raise your theory from the absurdity of Rinoa=Irvine (glad you agree that's absurd btw, was honestly expecting you to defend it) you can't just use your imagination and speculation to connect some dots (patience is hardly relevant: I could wait for years and Rinoa=Irvine would be just as silly). You need to provide some evidence that the game is suggesting your theory to be true! You say that FF8 is "a world of unanswered questions", but that doesn't mean that any answer you conceive of is going to be less than worthless. There's gotta be something in the game which supports your theory.Quote:
You would have to connect unanswered events, dialogues, etc. + your logical speculation, and have some patience ... Which would make your theory sound more plausible than those theories like Rinoa=Irvine ...
With your clone device idea, there's no such evidence. You have pulled it out of your imagination as one possible scenario and argued that there's nothing which inhibits it from being true in a mathematical sense. But you agreed with me that FF8 theories isn't mathematics. What seperates good theories from bad theories is evidence which is difficult to intepret in any other way than the one supporting your theory. But your clone device can easily be argued to be incapable of physical interaction, and the fact that Squall wasn't shown till the end can easily be interpreted as teasing by Squall.
Your entire theory rests on the idea that "it's not 100% impossible due to lack of information", and as such is no more valid than Rinoa=Irvine.
Originally Posted by Serapy
I agree that they had to move on , but I think they would show some sign of sadness when they saw Rinoa standing alone on the balcony ,or that she so desperate to use a clone device in Squall's place ; But when Selphie points to Rinoa she is clearly smiling , that shows Squall can't be dead .Quote:
Well, everybody had to move on. They cannot keep sad all the time, otherwise that would mean no happy ending to FF8.
Wow. This thread is so old.
I think the ending of FF8 is about Squalls hallucinations while traveling through time compression. It's kind of like he and Rinoa meet in their dreams in the place that they promised. I think alot of it is really symbolic, for the most part, which is why i like the idea of Squall being in a dream like state the whole time.
Okay, as someone who works and studies in the industry and specifically that kind of stuff, you are almost completely wrong. There are many factors to consider in terms of how things actually work in the industry with project management and the like, but I'll go more specific.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
They could re-use the model, they could re-use the rig, depending on certain factors they might not be able to just "copy and paste" the animation (it's actually absurd that you use the terms copy and paste in this situation). Chances are they refined the animation. Also consider things like rendering and compositing. There's so many factors involved and you should really refrain from trying to state a theory if you have no idea about the subject.