Explanation for the ending of Final Fantasy 8

[Serapy]

I`m tired but I`ll try to finish this post before going off.

Well, Rinoa was a sorceress. So was Ultimecia. Ultimecia was insanely mad, wasn`t she? Right, so if Rinoa and Ultimecia were in the same family, there`s a chance that Rinoa can be crazy at certain times too.

Wasn`t Hyne crazy too? I mean, it must have taken him the guts to cut himself, tearing his parts off ... sacrificing himself.

As for Squall being alive at the end, well that`s an assumption.

There's no evidence that Rinoa and Ultimecia are in the same family, nor that Hyne was crazy (the story of him cutting off his skin is probably allegorical and not necessarily 100% fact). In other words you are saying "it might be possible because we don't have enough information".

The same family, I meant by sorceress wise, obviously not blood related.

If Hyne didn`t sacrifice himself, then how did he manage to produce sorceresses? I don`t think you can create them by using pure magic ...

A sorceress must pass her powers to some one who is eligible before she peacefully dies. This can be applied to the Hyne`s situtation: he passes his super power over and he`s gone.

Which is a valid point. But consider this: if time gets skipped occasionally during the FMV. I.e. we didn`t get to view what happened to Squall after the flower field scene and he somehow appeared at the end = so we assume that time gets skipped. There are other things that get skipped as well.

So, how much time did it take from the flower field scene to the Seifer`s scene in reality? Approximately 1 minute? 1 day? 1 week? 1 month?

And how much time did it take from the previous scenes to the party scene?

My point is that if a friend of yours died for something he loved doing, then perhaps ... let`s say 1 month later since his death, you would be feeling better, not exactly sombre but better. It`s not like the co party went partying after the day of Ultimecia`s defeat, right?

If I recall correctly, Seifer was injured not too long before the entrance of Ultimecia`s, so how long did he get better? Who took him to a doctor? That must have taken some time.

Again all you are saying is "we don't have enough information so anything could be true".

SquareSoft obviously knows this. They know this can happen.
If some important information is crucial or very subtle, then
why didn`t they clarify so in their Ultimania guide? I`ve read the interviews, and nope, nothing.
The 'they do age' thing in the guide does not even destory R=U, because there are still more info to answer.

So I know what that answer is. It just proves that FF8 is not straightforward as intended by SquareSoft. They want individuals to enjoy the FF8`s plot with thier imaginations.

More to the point though, when a character dies in an FF game, Square have ALWAYS made a big point about it, showing the reactions of other characters.

Not when it`s subtle and cannot be disproved / proved.

If they wanted us to think he was dead they wouldn't have shown a celebratory victory showing everyone totally happy.

Well, everybody had to move on. They cannot keep sad all the time, otherwise that would mean no happy ending to FF8.

Squall might have been dead for a week or so after the Garden party (why would they wait longer to celebrate?)

That`s the problem: each specific event (except the semi-final and final scenes) in the FMV has skipped time, so I don`t know exactly when.

but then it's likely they would still have had some sort of commemoration for Squall. If they wanted us to think he was dead they wouldn't skip the commemoration and then show him appearing alive. Square might have been ambiguous in other FF's but never misleading.

Misleading? So R=U didn`t happen after all.

Maybe the commemoration for Squall would be Laguna visiting Raine at her grave? Squall dying and Laguna visiting Raine in the same FMV? It`s kind of rare for SquareSoft to make coincidences happen.

However the main issue here is that your entire argument is "we don't have enough information". I'll explain at the end why that means this theory is worthless.

It has been proved that we don`t have enough information, which absolutely made us thinking about them for a second. There`s nothing worthless about that.

1) This game contains quite many MacGuffins, Squall at the end could be one because not enough information were given (his health and the time differences of each scene in the FMV.)
2) There are indications that something will happen in the future timelines. So, that`s another thing Square wanted us to think about. Asking for evidence is meaningless.

You seem to be confused about what a MacGuffin is. A MacGuffin is something which is used to advance the plot without the details of it being too important (Time compression would be the best FF8 example).

Probably. So...

Time compression has effects.
Time compression basically combined everything. Including the people.

Time compression is over thanks to the Co party`s resistance. However, it`s possible to get jet lagged from it = altering the way how people feel a bit. Maybe that`s how the Co party felt better and happy at the party earlier? Under normal circumstances, they shouldn`t be feeling like that at the time ...

Squall appearing at the end, dead or alive, would not be a MacGuffin. The plot is over when you see him!

The plot will never be over, though. The story will keep getting repeated and repeated.

Squall being dead would not be similar to anything Square has ever done. As I said, they have at most been ambiguous, never misleading.

I`m not sure if they were misleading with the R=S theory ...

Whatever indications for the future there are none of them imply that Squall is dead at the end of the game.

There are some, e.g.

Ultimecia`s castle having lions statues.
GF Griever ...
Calling Squall the legendary SeeD

Asking for evidence is hardly meaningless. I don't mean mathematical proof mind you, but evidence as in 'arguments that aren't based on lack of information' which is the only argument you are using.

FF8 has been proved not to be straightforward, see my above post as to why Square wouldn`t clarify. -- Leaving it up to our imaginations -- so yes, it`s meaningless to ask for pure evidence ... for now.

If Square has done something like this before, then why are the other FFs more clear? There`s a good chance that FF8 was just an experiment by Square.

Why is that a good chance? Also, the other FF's are not more or less clear. Consider FF9:

(SPOILER)Square do the exact same thing with Zidane as with Squall. They make it out as if he is dead, then leave you hanging for a long time in the ending not revealing him until the very last moment. The setup is literally identical to FF8. FF8 is not less clear than this.

Yes, kind of the same thing happened to Zidane at the end. BUT he wasn`t that subtle, he looked more alive and clear. There were even dialogues of himself.

This Squall was far more subtle. There were no scene of what exactly happened to Squall after the flower field scene. His appearance was only in that scene and the very final scene. His body looked still the same when Rinoa revived him. No dialogues of himself. All took in a few seconds ... very subtle.

So how was FF8 not less clear than the FF9`s Zidance incident?

The flat battery indicator and the casting time of Rinoa`s finger sign symbolism exactly appeared at the same time. I think it`s something to do with symbolism (I made a thread about it back then.) You see her finger sign so many times in the game = too many coincidences = likely to have some meaning.

It's just Square teasing the viewer. They know you're wondering if Squall is out there too, so 'coincidentally' the camcorder runs out before you can see. In any case, 'symbolism' here won't be evidence of Squall being dead.

I`ve repeatedly checked the FMV. Yes, both of them appeared at the same time.

Actually,
The finger sign symbolism is what Squall saw Rinoa for the first time.
Battery flat indicator means dead. So, that would void the symbolism = Squall`s already dead ...

As for the teasing thing. I`m not sure, because the battery flat indicator is quite subtle; kinda hard to see and not to miss it.
If they wanted to tease us, they would rather make it less subtle ...

How can it be a mistake? Why didn`t they just ... like ... copy the animation of Rinoa from the camcorder scene and then paste it into the final scene?

Because making an FMV isn't as simple as copying and pasting? Square have made continuity errors in other games too (although I won't mention any since you might call those profound symbolism too).

If they copied and pasted ... that would of have saved them from wasting more hours re-creating the model of Rinoa just for the final scene ...

But this clone device does exist, sure, it didn`t tell us whether does it have the ability to physically interact or not. Being said that, it doesn`t outright the fact that it can`t physically interact due to lack of information.

You say it yourself. Your argument is based on lack of information.

Not entirely.

Well, we don`t exactly know what happened in the FMV`s timeline. Anything can happen, no evidence required.

I.e. "we don't have enough information".

It`s a fact. Each of the events in the FMV has skipped time, there`s a 100% possibility that something happened in between of the events` skipped time.

Um, I`ve just posted events from the game (which are evidence), and I`ve made a interpretation/speculation of those events. If I had evidence for my interpretation/speculation, then it becomes entirely fact. This is why it`s a theory.

When it comes literary interpretation "evidence" doesn't mean mathematical proof. It means an argument based on something real (an event in the game, tutorial information, whatever) which can very clearly be interpreted in one direction. You have provided several ingame events sure, but they don't naturally imply what you want them too.

I understand that, but this is FF8 ... a world of unanswered questions, and questionable authority of SquareSoft.

You are ONLY able to stretch them since "there is not enough information". Take your clone device for example. We know a device exists which creates a projection of people, but this isn't evidence for your theory because that would require this projection to interact physically which we don't know if it can do. Hence it's not evidence, it's just saying "we don't know for sure so anything could be true".

The clone device was used in non-cgi ingame scene. It`s logical to question the existence of what it might look like in CGI scene. Because the comparsion of the ingame characters and thier CGI scenes is quite noticeable.
Even ingame functions are too limited; there are certain things that cannot be used in game. That`s why those things are used in CGI. CGI is more like... less limited.

Why is that a worthless argument? Well, let me ask you this: do you think every theory conceivable is equally plausible? Are there theories even you would agree are absurd (Rinoa=Irvine=a cactuar in disguise for example)?

You would have to connect unanswered events, dialogues, etc. + your logical speculation, and have some patience ... Which would make your theory sound more plausible than those theories like Rinoa=Irvine ...

If yes, then "we don't have enough information" can even be used to argue for such theories whence it becomes clear it is worthless. If no....well then you are not discussing theories but fanfiction.

FF8 being not a straightforward game; you evaluate thier unanswered questions and make serious and convincing theories. Which does not clearly meet the definition of fanfiction.

Most of my posts came from the game + speculations on how they connected. If I were to make a fanfiction story, I would completely not use any in game event at all and just make up stories.

your theory is completely worthless.

Thanks for your wonderful opinion.

I`ve been posting in this section since '06, normally I would never say this but ...
Jeez! I cannot imagine how many time did certain people throw a wall of "GIMME EVIDENCE111!!" text into my ears. @_@

For those of you who plans to play Dissidia Final Fantasy:

(SPOILER)Check out Ultimecia`s spells. Invisible JME!