The JENOVA-theory (SPOILERS AHEAD)

Let's see what I understood of the game:

Cloud's Life:

-He pass the beginning of his life with Tifa on Nibelheim, desiring to join SOLDIER.

-He gows up and try to join SOLDIER, but he doesn't pass the test, wich is being strong enough to being injected with JENOVA cells and doesn't getting insane. Because of that he becomes these normal blue pattetically weak soldiers of shin-ra.

-He goes on a mission with Sephirot and Zack to Nibelheim.

-There Sephirot goes insane and burns the city. Cloud defeats him and goes insane, confusing his life with Zack's life, in part because of his shame for not becoming a SOLDIER, in part for JENOVA cell influence.

- Tifa founds him near the train station.

*some of it at the end may not be correct because I didn't saw this part on disc3.

JENOVA Cells:

They are injected on the ones trying to enter SOLDIER, if he pass the test he eners SOLDIER, if not he becomes that stupid blue guys.
Sephirot was the first and the strongest SOLDIER, so they injected JENOVA cells on him.

About Sephirot's:

I read a long time ago a theory that says that he got killed in the reactor and his body frost on northern cave, BUT that doesn't happened with his will, wich was so powerfull that transcended trought his body and could even materialize herself. (I like that idea more than the one of chasing JENOVA, and surely explains a lot about him).

*VERY IMPORTANT: I'm Brazilian, as you can see near my avatar, so DON'T make fun of me if there are engish mistakes above, it's NOT the language I speak every day.

wow im not understanding any of this i gotta replay this game.

First of all, if you havent seen the optional zack movie and the optional Lucrecia movie, LOOK IT UP IN A FAQ, bc you'll never understand.

ok:

Cloud and tifa are born and live beside each other in Nibelheim, and either a few years b4 or after, Zack is born in Gongaga. Cloud, is umm, how do I say it, "weird" to the three-some that tifa hangs out with, so cloud thinks he is different and considers them all immature (except for Tifa bc he has a crush on her) During this Time, Tifa barely knows he exist. Ok, here we go that starts the real story:

Tifa mother dies and Tifa runs up Mt. Nibel, where her friends chickin out, so cloud follows her and they both fall and tifa is gravely injured while cloud gets away with skinned knees. Cloud is blamed for takin Tifa up there and is Ashamed of his weakness to save her. So Cloud starts to get into fights and gradually becomes an EXCEPTIONAL fighter (counters the theory of him being completely weak). As time goes on, him and tifa become good friends and Cloud calls her to the well, and tells her hes going to go join soldier to be like Sephy so he can impress her, so Cloud leaves for Midgar.

MIDGAR:
Cloud makes to midgar and joins shinra's army and meets Zack there as well. (at some time while trying to join soldier) Cloud is recognize as an exceptional fighter and tries to do what he came for: join soldier. But unfortunetely for cloud, he fails the mako showers and the small dosage of jenova cells bc his body rejects it and is forced to stay in the shinra army ranks. At this time, Zack makes it to 1st class Soldier. (obviously he passed the Jenova and mako showers)

ashamed for his failure, cloud never writes back to nibelheim where Tifa worries about him everyday, causing her love to grow over-time.

NIbelHeim: There is a mission where Sephy and Zack must investigate why monsters are coming from the reactor. Cloud another soldier is chosen to go with them. While at NibelHeim, Tifa hears some soldiers are coming and she happily choses to be the guide for which she hopes to see cloud. But to her dissapointment Cloud never shows up. The reason is, he is to ashamed to let the people know that he failed so he doesnt reveal himself to anyone there.

phew, I'm tired already, but I'll try to continue:

Ok, so they all travel to the Mt.Nibel reactor. (Zack, Sephy, Tifa, and the two soldiers (which one is cloud)) and they make it. Cloud is ordered to guard Tifa from entering the reactor. OK, so in there, Zack and sephy discover that HoJo is making monsters by OVERshowering soldiers, which is where Sephy goes berserk and runs to the mansion. So, everyone heads back towards the mansion after him to see whats wrong.Zack finds Sepyh who just discovers that he was created with Jenova cells within him. So Sephy starts declaring her Mother and burns Nibelheim calling all Humans Traitos BC he thinks Jenova is a cetra. so Zack, Tifa, Tifa's father, and Cloud (still under uniform) chase after him towards the reactor where Sephy is heading to reclaim his "Mother". Tifa's father gets there first and is killed by sephy. Tifa appears next and attacks him and is cut deeply. Next, Zack comes and fights sephy and loses and is knock almost unconsious. Last, Cloud shows up, looks at the situation, and takes Zack's 2000000 ft long buster sword and stabs sephy in the back while sephy is taking jenova. This injury was very deep only allowing Sephy to take Jenova's head bc of the injury. Cloud runs back and picks up tifa and puts her somewhere safe. Zack, barely consious tells Cloud to kill sephy. So cloud runs after sephy and yells at him and tries to attack him bare-handed.(for some reason) there, Sephy stabbed him (well thought he did) but actually cloud had grabbed the sword and threw him over the walkway into the reactor. (yes, the reason cloud one was bc he was injured, IMO anyway).

Phew,ok ,here I go with my theory about the "failed experiments"

Right after this, Cloud picks up tifa and takes her to a hospital somewhere (or somehow tifa gets out of there) and cloud goes back for Zack. (or there could be some other way) the point is, Zack and Cloud is captured by the shinra army. HoJo decides to make another Ultimate soldier: sephiroth. So, HoJo shower Cloud and Zack with maki and give them heavy doses of Jenova injection daily. Zack is able to take the showers and injections, but cloud cannot, so he loses his mind. Cloud is considered a failure.(I'm not sure about Zack, no in-game text or events can lead up a theory in either way)

alright, after the injections and the showers, Zack finds an opportunity to excape so he takes it and nabbs Cloud while hes at it. Zack finds an old guy to take them to midgar where Zack decides he will take care of cloud and wants them to become Mercenaries after cloud gets better. While cloud seems to be still F-ed up, Zack talks to him about joining soldier and the conversation he had with sephy. Cloud can only answer with a nod or a "uhhh" (which to me, was signs of improving)

So on the outskirts of midgar, the guy drops them off Zack carries cloud and heads for Midgar, but are spotted by shinra troops. Zack defeates the first wave and runs back to check up on Cloud, but is then Pierced by a hail of bullets, killing him. After this, the soldiers leave cloud bc they consider him dead anyway. So, after they leave, cloud takes Zacks buster sword and walks towards midgar train station and where he meets Tifa, who is over excited. While she tries to talk with him, Tifs's memories, Zack's Memories, and what is left of his memories, merge together forming the ex-soldier mercenary Cloud. Then the game starts with clouds first mission as a mercenary for Avalanche.

PHEW!!! enough of that! if you want to hear about Sephy's parents and vincent and how they tie together, you have to wait for someone else to post or for me to feel like it again. phew..

Also, to let you know, Tifa could tell there was something drasticly wrong with him, but she was scared to say something for the fear of losing him again.

so the answers:

is Cloud a clone: no, that is the real cloud

did cloud take Zack's memories bc hes a loser: no, cloud was having "Mental" problems

is Jenova Sephy's Mother: NO, but I'll let someone else explain that or I will LATER

does cloud go insane after defeating Sephy: NO, cloud goes insane after the EXPERIMENT!

about Soldier requirements:
You must be in shinra army or a turk to join.
You will be showered with Mako and revieve small injections of Jenova
If you fail, you return to your former duty.

Was Sephy killed at the reactor 5 years ago: NO, he was NOT, his body drifted to the north crater where he was kept frozen. This is why I believe the sephy that they were chasing after, was really jenova inside sephy's will, sephy wanted to become the ruler of the planet but the Meteor was really Jenova's plan to destroy the planet. Jenova manipulated sephy into thinking he was doing something for self-gain; just like she manipulated Cloud to think he was chasing sephy, but in reality he was being drawn to give sephy the black materia.

PHEW, No I am OFFICIALLY DONE! if there are any questions, Plz go ahead, and ask....

Quote:

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Cloud makes to midgar and joins shinra's army and meets Zack there as well. (at some time while trying to join soldier) Cloud is recognize as an exceptional fighter and tries to do what he came for: join soldier. But unfortunetely for cloud, he fails the mako showers and the small dosage of jenova cells bc his body rejects it and is forced to stay in the shinra army ranks. At this time, Zack makes it to 1st class Soldier. (obviously he passed the Jenova and mako showers)

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The test for SOLDIER is purely physical, and they are later injected with Jenova cells. Zack failed to react when Hojo injected him with Jenova cells.

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Zack finds Sepyh who just discovers that he was created with Jenova cells within him.

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He goes insane because he thinks he was created in a test tube.

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This injury was very deep only allowing Sephy to take Jenova's head bc of the injury.

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I don't think the injury affected what he took of Jenova.

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Last, Cloud shows up, looks at the situation, and takes Zack's 2000000 ft long buster sword and stabs sephy in the back while sephy is taking jenova. This injury was very deep only allowing Sephy to take Jenova's head bc of the injury. Cloud runs back and picks up tifa and puts her somewhere safe. Zack, barely consious tells Cloud to kill sephy. So cloud runs after sephy and yells at him and tries to attack him bare-handed.(for some reason) there, Sephy stabbed him (well thought he did) but actually cloud had grabbed the sword and threw him over the walkway into the reactor. (yes, the reason cloud one was bc he was injured, IMO anyway).

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This sequence of events is wrong. After Tifa is knocked out, Cloud immediately picks her up and sets her aside. Then he runs after Sephy and stabs him. Sephiroth bitch slaps him and Cloud is knocked down. Sephiroth walks out. Cloud runs after him, goes to attack, and Sephy runs him through. Cloud grabs his sword, throws him over the edge.

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Right after this, Cloud picks up tifa and takes her to a hospital somewhere (or somehow tifa gets out of there) and cloud goes back for Zack. (or there could be some other way)

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Or, y'know, Cloud just collapses since he was RUN THROUGH.

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Zack is able to take the showers and injections, but cloud cannot, so he loses his mind. Cloud is considered a failure.(I'm not sure about Zack, no in-game text or events can lead up a theory in either way)

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Zack's body does not respond to the injections, and he is considered a failure. Cloud's body does react somewhat, but later doesn't develop more, so he's also considered a failure. The reason Cloud goes nuts is because of the Jenova cells developing within him.

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about Soldier requirements:
You must be in shinra army or a turk to join.
You will be showered with Mako and revieve small injections of Jenova
If you fail, you return to your former duty.

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The Jenova cell injections happen after one joins SOLDIER, otherwise Zack wouldn't have made it.


Other than those few(relatively minor) discrepancies, your tale is pretty accurate.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

The voices don't really matter. Could be Jenova, could be the real Sephiroth up in the North Crater. Who knows?


Hardly. Jenova made a crater. Meteor was meant to destroy the Planet. Meteor's about 57349205 times the size of Jenova.


I honestly believe that Jenova doesn't give a damn about the Lifestream. I think she just wanted to destroy the Planet(Meteor was meant to destroy the Planet, and the whole Lifetsream theory was just meant to further manipulate Sephiroth to do her bidding). She, being an alien, can't manipulate the Lifestream like Sephiroth - otherwise, she could've just summoned Meteor herself, and not needed Sephiroth.

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Wrong Jenova was the clamity from the sky as descrbed in the game. She then went round killing all the cetra with a virus. She then got stuck in some kind of event like a vocanic eruption and survived but was also trapped in the ground. You only see the real sephiroth 3 times. In clouds storey in that town then in the materia in north crater then when you defeat him in the final battle. Jenova Is using the clones as puppets to draw cloud to find the black materia and then give it to sephiroth. Jenova was probibly not an achent but could controll the life stream if there where no achents left on the planet.

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Originally Posted by sayen

Wrong Jenova was the clamity from the sky as descrbed in the game. She then went round killing all the cetra with a virus. She then got stuck in some kind of event like a vocanic eruption and survived but was also trapped in the ground. You only see the real sephiroth 3 times. In clouds storey in that town then in the materia in north crater then when you defeat him in the final battle. Jenova Is using the clones as puppets to draw cloud to find the black materia and then give it to sephiroth. Jenova was probibly not an achent but could controll the life stream if there where no achents left on the planet.

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You didn't read anything I posted.

No duh Jenova was the calamity from the skies. I said she made the crater, which, if you remember correctly, was caused by the "calamity from the skies."

The rest of what you said barely makes any sense and doesn't seem to have any relevance at all to your point. But Jenova was NOT an Ancient and could not control the Lifestream.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

The test for SOLDIER is purely physical, and they are later injected with Jenova cells. Zack failed to react when Hojo injected him with Jenova cells.

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hmm, maybe you're right about the Jenova cells, I do know for a Fact that Soldiers Were Showered with mako and cloud Failed bc of that.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

He goes insane because he thinks he was created in a test tube.

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I didnt say anything that lead anyone to believe he went crazy bc Jenova was his mother. Sorry if i wrote it that way, never been to good at writing for a long term of time.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

I don't think the injury affected what he took of Jenova.

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Sorry, my fault again, I meant to put, that was the reason he was only able to grab her head, not the whole reason he grabbed her; he was meaning to take her with him, but the injury wouldnt let him.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

This sequence of events is wrong. After Tifa is knocked out, Cloud immediately picks her up and sets her aside. Then he runs after Sephy and stabs him. Sephiroth bitch slaps him and Cloud is knocked down. Sephiroth walks out. Cloud runs after him, goes to attack, and Sephy runs him through. Cloud grabs his sword, throws him over the edge.

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....No, I'm sure I'm right. Cloud saw Zack and Tifa, was furious, and grabbed Zack's sword. He ran after sephy and stabbed him in his back the room. He ran out and took care of tifa and then sephy walked out. Then Zack told him to kill him, so cloud ran after him. I do believe I am right on this one, I saw this scene about a week ago for the 3rd time.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Or, y'know, Cloud just collapses since he was RUN THROUGH.

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Sorry, I wasnt sure about this part.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Zack's body does not respond to the injections, and he is considered a failure. Cloud's body does react somewhat, but later doesn't develop more, so he's also considered a failure. The reason Cloud goes nuts is because of the Jenova cells developing within him.

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oh ok, so Zack WAS a failure. sorry about that

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

The Jenova cell injections happen after one joins SOLDIER, otherwise Zack wouldn't have made it.

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oh ok, wasnt sure about that either

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Other than those few(relatively minor) discrepancies, your tale is pretty accurate.

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thks, I tried, kinda hard writing for such a long time.

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Originally Posted by Dante WolfWood

hmm, maybe you're right about the Jenova cells, I do know for a Fact that Soldiers Were Showered with mako and cloud Failed bc of that.

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Did you go ask someone from Square? Because in the game it just says the he "didn't have what it took" to get into SOLDIER. All Shinra guards were given mako, so that wouldn't make sense to be the reason.

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....No, I'm sure I'm right. Cloud saw Zack and Tifa, was furious, and grabbed Zack's sword. He ran after sephy and stabbed him in his back the room. He ran out and took care of tifa and then sephy walked out. Then Zack told him to kill him, so cloud ran after him. I do believe I am right on this one, I saw this scene about a week ago for the 3rd time.

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So he entered the area, saw Tifa fall, ran after Sephy, ran back out with Sephiroth only wounded, took care of Tifa, then ran back to deal with Sephy? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

I think more how Dante is seeing that scene is Cloud stabs Sephrioth believes he his finished then goes back to tifa to administer what ever first aid he could.

Sephrioth then walks out, at which point zack tells cloud to kill sephrioth which cloud goes out to do. Cloud is wounded but manages to toss sephrioth. That is how I understand what Dante is saying.

Continue posting away, I like reading this topic even if I generally don't have anything to add.

Quoted from a game script at GameFAQS

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Tifa attempted to snatch and slash Sephiroth with the Masamune but Sephiroth
took the sword from her and slashed her and Tifa fell down the stairs. Then
Sephiroth went inside the room with Jenova. Cloud helped Tifa who was seriously
wounded.

Tifa: ...You promised... You promised that you'd come...... when I was in
trouble...

Cloud picked her up and placed her to safety. Cloud then goes inside the room
with Jenova.

Sephiroth: Mother, let's take this planet back together. I've thought of a great
idea. Let's go to the Promised Land.

Cloud: Sephiroth... My family! My hometown! How could you do this to them!?

Sephiroth: Ha, ha, ha...... They've come again, mother. With her superior power,
knowledge, and magic, Mother was destined to become the ruler of the Planet.

We watch a movie of Sephiroth and his lines.

Sephiroth: But they... Those worthless creatures are stealing the Planet from
Mother. But now I'm here with you so don't worry.

He took off Jenova.

Cloud: What about MY sadness!? My family... friends... The sadness of having my
hometown taken away from me!? It's the same as your sadness!

Sephiroth: Ha, ha, ha... my sadness? What do I have to be sad about? I am the
chosen one. I have been chosen to be the leader of this Planet. I have orders to
take this planet back from you stupid people for the Cetra. What am I supposed
to be sad about?

Cloud: Sephiroth... I trusted you... No, you're not the Sephiroth I used to
know!

Cloud draw his sword and start's a dual with Sephiroth (showing Cloud and
Sephiroth one at a time and faster). flashback ended

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That was from the flashback. I scrolled down to try and find the full version from the flashback from disc 2 in Mideel, but it's a crappy game script and only says "Zack replaces Cloud for all events" and isn't complete. But that shows that he helped Tifa first.

That I wouldn't know too much about, my PS went on the fritze early on... I was just translating his words as I saw it. it may be contradictory but it could make sense.

I think where alot of the questions about the Sephiroth clones and Cloud arise from is WHAT exactly IS a clone. Its not people who were grown in test tubes in the shinra building or whatever. What they did was shower soldiers with Mako (a cheap knock off of Jenova cells as far as the shinra could see). This was seen in the flashback in the basement of the shinra mansion in Disc 3 or late disc 2. If Im not mistaken thats what was done to the black caped men. A succesful cloan was someone who relatively began mumbling about Sephiroth and the reunion. Thats probably why there were so many cloans in Nebelheim. People who were showered with mako (or cloaed) In the basement of the shinra mansion as Cloud and Zack were. So to say Cloud was cloaned isnt exactly right but not exactly wrong either. Its just a misunderstanding of the word cloaned. Thats my theory anyway.

give it a rest people theres evidence to say that cloud is a human not a clone you see Tifa knows him from CHILDHOOD and they didnt clone sephiorth till around the start of the game, the supposed sephiorth clones are in fact survivors of the nibelheim incident who were captured and forced into similar experiments sephiorth was.
ok all SOLDIERs are injected with mako which is mixed with a tiny piece of jenova cells, cloud survived it and so did zack. if cloud had all them memories then how could he be a clone. he and Tifa know eachother well, she remembers his promise and etc.this is enough evidence to say that cloud is NOT a clone. Hojo calls cloud an experiment and failure to manipulate his mind since it was unstable he was a schizo untill his wounds were healed in the lifestream with Tifa.

i know some of you wil shout on saying im full of crap but ive made a point examplified and explained the true facts the game sometimes makes you get the wrong idea like the sephiroth father incident involving vincent and hojo. if you go through the game and pay attention to the tricky parts that can give you wrong ideas you'll see what i mean and that cloud isnt a clone

Spoilers from here on out-

....Slow to catch on?Let me explain again. Cloud was sprayed with Mako. That makes him a Clone. If you know half as much of the game as you seem to think you yourself saw the hidden flashback where both Cloud and Zack were in Mako filled tubes in the basement of the Shinra mansion. That was the cloning process. Now pay attention. This will seriously mess with your head. Cloud went through the cloning process-This makes Cloud a Clone. This isnt theory. Its fact. If you dont agree you havent played the game. If you'd even bothered to read my post properly (if you read it at all) you'd see that Cloud lived a normal life in Nibelheim, Joined Shinra, Failed to become a soldier like sephiroth, got sent on a mission with sephiroth and a soldier named Zack, Completed the mission and witnessed Sephiroth go crazy, defeated Sephiroth , Him and Zack got put in Mako tubes and went through more Mako than average members of soldier but managed to escape before it had serios effects. THAT WAS THE CLONING PROCESS. Cloud was affected worse than Zack and couldnt remember Zack being killed around the gates of Midgar or many of the events before hand (defeating Sephiroth etc.)

Tifa and Clouds memories did happen but being sprayed with Mako makes him a clone of Sephiroth.

well all SOLDIERS are put through the mako process but they arent just enfused with mako energy its also jenova cells. you got the term of clone wrong as cloud lived a life and didnt look exactly like sephiroth. the so called clones were infact people who were captured and experimented on till they became a sephiroth look alike they were more of a clone than cloud was, cloud underwent the same experiments all members of SOLDIER did and if he survived he was recruited into SOLDIER.

a clone is an exact copy created from scratch from cells of the subject. Cloud already existed and doesnt look like sephiroth therefore he isnt a clone.


i dont want to argue but cloud is human and the shinra people make SOLDIERS as close to sephiroth as possible without changing the subjects which is why they use a small amount of jenova cells in the bath. it just seems logical you see