Your writing an essay on this?!?
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Your writing an essay on this?!?
It's more than just the LTD. It's Cloud's history and an analysis thereof.
Ahh..cool. Come to think of it there parobably is alot of source matirial for somthing like that.WEll good luck with it:D
yeah...no bother ryu....i am playing the game through an emulator on my computer cuz i had the game for playstation but im on my computer alot so i thought i would use time effectively and whatever...but you dont need my life story...anywho....i got disc 2 and whirlwind maze and mideel and all that stuff jus like the day before yesterday so it was fresh in my mind...but anybody who is still confused should play disc 2....alot of [img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img] explained pretty blatantly.....
I'm going to get off-topic, just to point out something. Aeris was not into Cloud simply because he reminded her of her ex-. She brought that up at the playground. She seemed to think thats why she liked him, but also seemed to want to get past the facade and get to know the real him. As was apparently stated in the date on the gondola. And where in the world was it implied that Aeris and Zack had a sexual relationship?
(Sorry if some of my quotes/topics are a bit old. I couldn’t access the internet for a while.)
I believe that in fact it would be Tifa that Cloud cares for the most. First off, Cloud made a life changing decision to gain Tifa's attention. That would mean that Cloud had some very strong feelings for Tifa and did something that completley changed his life, just for her. In the beginning, when they were children, Tifa was unaware of Cloud's feelings and so did not seem to actually care. Why care about something you don't know about? Besides, when Cloud managed to gather up his courage to tell Tifa how he felt about her, Tifa's mother had died, as seen in the flashback. Not a very good time to tell someone that you love them, true? Later, when Tifa fell and was in a coma, Cloud got the blame and he felt that Tifa hated him. Because of this, he got into many fights and he didn't care who or why, only that Tifa hated him and that there could be no way that Tifa would ever love him back. His love blinded him. And so he made the dramatic life-changing decision to join SOLDIER to gain power and to get Tifa’s attention and to get her to like him. I say he liked Tifa very, very, very, much. In fact he must’ve loved her. :)
He would be blaming himself because he believes that he is the one who got Aeris into this mess in the first place. If you recall, in the beginning of the game, he kept trying to get Aeris to stay home where it was ‘safe’ and to leave him be. But Aeris persisted and forcibly joined the group. Now, if Cloud hadn’t come crashing threw the roof and agreed to take her home and overall get her involved in his own problems Aeris would never have joined the group and thus would never have died. He did his damnedest (pardon my French) to get her to go home to safety, but she refused. It was because she met him that she died. That is all Cloud sees. And in a way he is right. He can’t forgive himself for getting Aeris involved and thus leading to her death. He feels he is wholly responsible for her death by meeting her. Just because he can’t forgive himself doesn’t necessarily mean that he loves her and is still mourning her. Just that, by meeting her in the first place and failing to protect her as her ‘bodyguard’, he feels that he is the one that killed her. Not Sephiroth.Quote:
First off, in AC, Cloud is still lamenting over Aerith's death. Still blames himself, and still feels unforgiven. He feels the same way about Zack, but his connection with Aerith's death seems much more personal. In the case of Zack, there wasn't much he could do, but with Aerith, he felt that if he hadn't been controlled by Sephiroth at that time that he could have stopped it.
Please keep in mind that Cloud wasn’t quite himself. Where he made a dramatic life changing decision for Tifa’s attention, he only remembers her almost vaguely and hardly intimately at all. Quite a difference, no? From what you described above, I believe this to be the changed Cloud with these feelings for Aeris. Later on, he is closer to Tifa than he was with Aeris.Quote:
Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like he was about to say, "I'm here for you." This can be construed as him just being nice to her, but his quick change to "We're" is what makes me think that he's trying to mask some feelings. I don't know. Maybe I'm looking too deep, but that sounds pretty sentimental coming from Cloud. And his quick cover up definitely makes it seem like there is more there than meets the eye.
Men don’t deal with emotional times, such as this, very well. You must admit it is very awkward and where Aeris may have prepared herself for this moment, it took Cloud completely by surprise and unsure as how to respond. And she is being a little vague. For example, how would you respond to someone after they said they loved you? (not that she did, just as an example)Quote:
Which is why I contend that his silence towards Aerith in the gondola is a sign of Cloud trying to hide his feelings. He doesn't want to tell Aerith that he loves her, but he doesn't want to tell her that he doesn't either, so he keeps his mouth shut in hopes that it will just go away.
Wow, Dragon Mage, I have to say, that is one of the most interesting and insightful theories I have read on this subject. That the reason Cloud seemed to hint towards liking Aerith at first was because he was so much like Zach. But you are right, that once he finds out who he really is, he definitely seems to warm up to Tifa a lot more. Very intriguing. I'll have to think on this.
I think using all this evidense from their childhood is kinda baseless. I won't deny they probably did grow to have genuine true feelings for each other. But when Cloud was a kid, there's no denying what he felt wasn't love. It was a deep obsessed infatuation. A crush. And part of growing up we all have to learn that's not the same as love. He didn't even know her. It can grow to become love, yes, if given the proper chance. But some people sound like Cloud and Tifa were best friends when they were growing up. They knew each other since childhood, yes. They later become friends. They aren't childhood friends. They're childhood acquaintances. She only started acknowleging his existance shortly before he left. I'm sure most people know what it's like to have a childhood obsession. And probably called it love then. But if anyone's been in a real relationship since, and can compare and contrast the differences. Actually getting to know someone. And having control of your feelings and such. He decided to join SOLDIER because he was obsessed with her. Not because he loved her. He maybe later grew to love her. He had strong feelings yes. But he barely knew her. He didn't love her as a child. So his childhood feelings shouldn't bear much weight on an argument towards who he loves now. Even if it does still end up being Tifa
^ Actually, later SE sources keep calling them childhood friends, so we have to try and reconcile that fact.
Though as for the LTD, I only use their past to show that the Cloud has been attracted to her (at least once he got old enough) and that he still thinks the same way. I always use more modern evidence for support as well.
Why thank you. I'm glad you liked it. :)Quote:
Wow, Dragon Mage, I have to say, that is one of the most interesting and insightful theories I have read on this subject. That the reason Cloud seemed to hint towards liking Aerith at first was because he was so much like Zach. But you are right, that once he finds out who he really is, he definitely seems to warm up to Tifa a lot more. Very intriguing. I'll have to think on this.
Excuse me but there is a huge difference between love and obsession. A person that is obsessed with another person usually turns out to stalk that person, though this isn't always the case. Obsession does not have as positive meaning as love does. And if you recall a stalker doesn't reveal their feelings at all, but continually follows that person because they are obsessed with them. Going to SOLDIER just to get Tifa to notice him doesn't seem like he was obsessed, and thus a stalker, with Tifa. Stalkers ususally go out of their way to go unoticed. And though Cloud loved Tifa, or had a strong affection for her, Tifa didn't really notice. So when they were children the situation was opposite from when they were older; when they were younger Cloud loved Tifa but she didn't neccessarily reciprocate that love/affection. When they are older Tifa loves Cloud but he doesn't seem to reciprocate that love. It's rather ironic.Quote:
I think using all this evidense from their childhood is kinda baseless. I won't deny they probably did grow to have genuine true feelings for each other. But when Cloud was a kid, there's no denying what he felt wasn't love. It was a deep obsessed infatuation. A crush. And part of growing up we all have to learn that's not the same as love. He didn't even know her. It can grow to become love, yes, if given the proper chance. But some people sound like Cloud and Tifa were best friends when they were growing up. They knew each other since childhood, yes. They later become friends. They aren't childhood friends. They're childhood acquaintances. She only started acknowleging his existance shortly before he left. I'm sure most people know what it's like to have a childhood obsession. And probably called it love then. But if anyone's been in a real relationship since, and can compare and contrast the differences. Actually getting to know someone. And having control of your feelings and such. He decided to join SOLDIER because he was obsessed with her. Not because he loved her. He maybe later grew to love her. He had strong feelings yes. But he barely knew her. He didn't love her as a child. So his childhood feelings shouldn't bear much weight on an argument towards who he loves now. Even if it does still end up being Tifa
From now on please be careful on how you use words such as obsession. Words are known to be tricky.
I never said he was a stalker. I said he was obsessed. That doesn't translate exactly into stalker. Some people can maintain an infatuation without crossing lines. I still maintain that he didn't really know her. And therefor, no matter what he thought he felt, couldn't have loved her. For what was there to love if he knew so little? Unreasonable emotion like that is often felt, by lots of people. And its not love. Its a crush. An infatuation.
And considering they didn't really know each other, and didn't really hang out. I think it's careless for Square to refer to them as childhood friends unless they want to go back and re-write their history. I realize Square intends for them to be together, and thinks its cute to grow up and hook up with your childhood friends, and if they had initially wanted that to happen, they would have been friends as children. And she would have paid attention to him as a child. And they would have hung out as children.
Edit: Also that wasn't directed towards you. So there's no need to take any offense. Just after reading your last post I realized all this. And if you actually look at their past it makes sense. They were only acquaintances as kids. And he had an unreasonable infatuation with her that wasn't returned until way later in life. Its not something I'd define as love. But will admit can grow into love, as stated.
And I am careful :] You're the one that equated it to "stalker". It doesn't have to become a stalker'ish trait. Stalker is negative. Obsession merely has the possibility of becoming negative. Which is why I also used the words "infatuation" and "crush" a lot to differentiate where I was going with the word.
Oh. And you think that if Cloud and Tifa didn't at least have some knowledge of each other that Tifa would have come to the playground that night when Cloud announced that he was going into SOLDIER? I don't know about you, but if I was Tifa, I wouldn't be caught with a guy I didn't know at a playground at night just because he asked me too. They had to have some trust towards each other, and trust is only developed through friendship. Thus, Tifa and Cloud very well could have been childhood friends.
I've seen people do crazier things for people they didn't know without the security of trust. Its a small town. Its not like he's going to rape and murder her without anybody seeing it or hearing it. There wasn't much to be afraid of
No, he wouldn't have raped her. That's not what I'm saying. But if she didn't know him at all when they were children, why would she even bother coming. Also, why would she then make that deal with Cloud about her hero? Do people normally call someone they don't know their hero? I certainly haven't seen that kind of thing happen.
I know it wasn't directed at me, I just decided to argue for the sake of arguing. :) (a little arguing never hurt anybody...sometimes).Quote:
I never said he was a stalker. I said he was obsessed. That doesn't translate exactly into stalker. Some people can maintain an infatuation without crossing lines. I still maintain that he didn't really know her. And therefor, no matter what he thought he felt, couldn't have loved her. For what was there to love if he knew so little? Unreasonable emotion like that is often felt, by lots of people. And its not love. Its a crush. An infatuation.
Edit: Also that wasn't directed towards you. So there's no need to take any offense. Just after reading your last post I realized all this. And if you actually look at their past it makes sense. They were only acquaintances as kids. And he had an unreasonable infatuation with her that wasn't returned until way later in life. Its not something I'd define as love. But will admit can grow into love, as stated.
Ah ha! You have proved my point. Infatuation and obsession are very powerful words with a negative tone. I know I did turn it into 'stalker' but only because that was the tone/attitude you were implying. An infatuation can be very dangerous. Using such powerful words will often backfire.Quote:
An infatuation.
And Aralith, you have an excellent point. You've obliterated Vyk's argument. :) Good job. :)Quote:
But if she didn't know him at all when they were children, why would she even bother coming. Also, why would she then make that deal with Cloud about her hero? Do people normally call someone they don't know their hero? I certainly haven't seen that kind of thing happen.