Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon!

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Originally Posted by Miriel

What are you talking about? Cat can be stupid and still be a good character. Theon is evil AND stupid, but he's still a good character.

You really think someone has to like the actions of a character in order to like what they add to a show?

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what. no!

I don't like Cat because she is stupid! I don't have an issue with the drama, character development etc she adds to the show and never said I did!

Stop it! Why are you doing this Miriel

why have you done this to the game of thrones thread

I don't understand

why

why did you do this

why

you just wait 'til the next puppy and/or photography thread rolls around you better god damn believe i will destroy it

A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you'll know the debt is paid.

Hey, I just wanted to see more peen.

And you know why this happened, once someone mentions anything with an "ISM": racism, sexism, privilege, whatever. Other people will TO THEIR DYING BREATH claim that none of that is relevant. And then I'll be all, "yes it is" and they'll be all, "OMG NO IT ISN'T HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?!" And I'll be like, "seriously?" And they're be all, "GOD YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS!!"

Then the usual back and forth. Blah blah blah.

PS. Not 100% sure, but I think I am the only person to even bring up the fact that Drogo raped Dany in the first season. Wasn't even discussed or mentioned by the rest of you, despite many many instances of people talking about Drogo being awesome. Male characters never ever get a pass for being awful though, right? That just does. not. happen.

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Originally Posted by Shlup

The entire season has been a buildup for the next episode. Eeeee!

I feel like anyone who would think Cat is stupid hasn't bothered to take a moment to really put themselves in her shoes. Her husband was murdered, the murderers hold her daughters (well, they don't know Arya's MIA), another murderer has her little boys... though I was sure that at this point in the books she had heard Theon killed the boys. She is a mother, and all of her childrens' lives are in very direct danger. If I were her, I would be smurfing tit up all over the place to save my kids. Getting her girls back costs her, what, Jaime? In the books she makes him swear an oath not to take up arms again, at least. Regardless, what kind of parent wouldn't trade one guy for their captive children? He's a good fighter, sure, but it's not even like he's a great tactician; he can be captured or killed, but there may not be another chance for Cat to save her girls, especially since Karstark was looking to kill Jaime the first chance he'd get.

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Yes, I am excited for the next episode, too.

I think that Catelyn is a very unique character to see in fiction as her story has a lot of twists and turns that most mothers are never put through. It is interesting to see her story in the books as she is a point of view character, so she doesn't benefit from the TV show as much as other characters like Robb have, but she will eventually, I think. That's what I'm most interested to see.

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PS. Not 100% sure, but I think I am the only person to even bring up the fact that Drogo raped Dany in the first season. Wasn't even discussed or mentioned by the rest of you, despite many many instances of people talking about Drogo being awesome. Male characters never ever get a pass for being awful though, right? That just does. not. happen.

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Most of the people in this thread have read the books and understand the dynamic of their relationship, as well as the internal struggle that Dany faced that cannot be shown clearly in the show. It is horrific that she was raped by Drogo, but without the understanding of the books you cannot really comment on this scene accurately. It had to be shown the way it was because you cannot show the internal struggle that she was going through very well on a screen.

Also, I completely lied. I'm not done with this conversation but I have only one thing to say.

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And you know why this happened, once someone mentions anything with an "ISM": racism, sexism, privilege, whatever. Other people will TO THEIR DYING BREATH claim that none of that is relevant. And then I'll be all, "yes it is" and they'll be all, "OMG NO IT ISN'T HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT?!" And I'll be like, "seriously?" And they're be all, "GOD YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS!!"

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Get off of your high horse and stop pretending like you are the only one who understands sexism or racism, or any other type of ism. This does not at all accurately represent any of the conversation that went on in the last few pages of this thread and is so utterly about you making yourself into a matyr that it is absolutely smurfing ridiculous. You position on the matter is known and regardless of whether or not you want to admit it, you clearly did not argue that position very well. You bring up things that lead to people drawing conclusions, don't point out in any of the following posts that the conclusions being drawn aren't exactly right and argue back and forth based on those 'false conclusions' and then refuse to provide your own opinions on the matter. If I wanted to read a dozen different interpretations on the sexual objectification of women in the series, or in any other type of media, I would. I asked for YOUR opinion on what constitutes sexism and sexual objectification within the context of the show and you refused to provide it because you are lazy or lack the understanding of what it is enough to further argue your point. If you aren't going to all the way to support your argument just stop right now and get over it.

Here are a few male characters that are frequently cited as the most hated people in the series, regardless of rhyme or reason:

Joffrey Baratheon: Even though he is represented as a vile little :bou::bou::bou::bou: and one of the major villains of the series, you cannot simply ignore him based on those grounds. Simply not being a sympathetic enough character is not grounds for dismissing him in this category. If you want to, that's your prerogative but it's pretty silly to do so.

Theon Greyjoy: He is not a villain at all and is one of the more sympathetic characters in the show and grows significantly throughout the show. He is a young man trying to find his place in the world and smurfs up so many times doing it. He betrays the family that loves him for the family that hates him, betrays his best and only friend in the entire world out of some misguided loyalty for his father, and gets completely demolished for it. Calling him a villain does a complete disservice for his growth as a character.

The Hound: A lot of people hate him because of the actions that he makes and the things that he does on behalf of Joffrey. His protection and care of Sansa redeems him a bit but does not completely absolve the hatred that he receives from fans of the show and books.

GRRM wrote the next episode.

This thread has become redundant. Let me save you all time and effort.

It doesn't matter what you say or how you say it. Our reasons for hating idiotic women will always be sexist ones to Mirial Of Arc, we have no say in this. Evidence is not needed for her judgement. Only women bleed, all men are scum and bras are nothing but a prison for the chest..

Now can we get back on track.


I'd really do Rose Leslie. I duno why she looks so smurfing hot as an unwashed wild woman but good god people.

Off current topic spoilers:

(SPOILER)Did anyone else notice that they are making Roose's betrayal of Robb and the eventual Red Wedding scene more understandable to the audience with the introduction of Thalisa? There have been several scenes in which Robb and Roose have been talking, she comes in, and he dismisses him to his disappointment. If you look at his faces, you can see that he's growing more and more pissed at these instances. Thought it was kinda cool that they are starting to put it in the audiences heads this early.

They've done this with seceral characters in the TV series to make them more sympathetic to the audience. Cersei springs to mind. However, yes I've noticed.

Re Bunny: Yes, because acknowledging sexism is somehow waaay more high horse-y than completely just denying that it plays a part in any of this. I don't know why you keep arguing this with such a scoffing and dismissive attitude. I think anyone who reads my post has a clear understanding of why I think the way I do. Do I really need to get all dissertation-y on your ass? Cause yeah, I am lazy, and I don't think it has a place in this thread anymore. Which is why I told you to google it because there is a LOT already within about it. And my views generally line up with others who have written about GoT using women as sexual props. SNL even did a skit about it for god's sake. And even more crazy, that bit about sexual objectification only came about as some of us females lamenting the lack of male eye candy. The only reason that discussion went full blown was cause you had the gall to take something lighthearted and then be all, THAT'S NOT SEXISM about it, when clearly that's not true. Do you even realize how often males have used the "it's just target demographics" excuse? It was amusing to hear you post that while simultaneously promoting men's rights. You think being all, "That's not sexist, and THAT's not sexist, and neither is THAT" is somehow so much better than me saying, "That IS sexist, and that other thing is sexist too"? Do you see me asking YOU to prove how something ins't sexist? To prove that serving a target demographic is mutually exclusive from sexism? Nah.

Why do I have to convince you of my position? I don't. I'll say it again, I DON'T CARE if you hate Cat for whatever reasons you want to, and I don't care if you don't agree with me. It's my theory and one that makes sense to me. If you want more answers about sexism in media, then do what I suggested and research the topic. It's not my job to go beyond posting my opinion, which as far as I can tell has been pretty clear and readily understandable.

To Psychotic, I do apologize for hurting your beloved thread. You're right that this has absolutely gone on far too long. I would have stopped long ago, if people's responses weren't so god damn bitchy. Which I'm sure is the same reason people haven't stopped responding to me.

Lighthearted? The convo had nothing to do with cats gender until you brought it up.

Telling people that they are wrong, that gender does play a part in it, is very pretentious of you. Of course you're going to get the reactions you got. What did you expect?

While everything isn't sexist, it's also not free from sexism either. The problem people are having is that you are telling us that we personally feel a certain way because of sexist reasons. Not every emotion is because of sexist/racist/etc ideals. Some of us are just hateful, critical people. Telling us that we have motives other than that is you assuming and making decisions for us. That's why people are getting snippy wih you. But you can't accept the fact that we just don't like her. You keep insisting that there has to be more to it, that her gender is part of it. We keep telling you that's not the case but we're the ones that are bitchy?

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Lighthearted? The convo had nothing to do with cats gender until you brought it up.

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And even more crazy, that bit about sexual objectification only came about as some of us females lamenting the lack of male eye candy. The only reason that discussion went full blown was cause you had the gall to take something lighthearted and then be all, THAT'S NOT SEXISM about it, when clearly that's not true.

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I'm pretty sure us talking about lack of penis was lighthearted.

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But you can't accept the fact that we just don't like her. You keep insisting that there has to be more to it, that her gender is part of it. We keep telling you that's not the case but we're the ones that are bitchy?

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I can accept it. I've already said I accept it. I've even also said that she obviously has qualities people legitimately dislike about her, even if I don't agree. Where you keep missing the point is in the discussion ABOUT her versus the level of discussion towards other characters isn't in my opinion, without some sort of gender bias. As it is with a LOT of fandoms out there. Nearly every fandom in fact. I think you just plain skim over my posts (not that I blame you, they are long). And yes, y'all ARE being bitchy and overprotective. And I was being bitchy too. What about it?

There are two points here, one about Cat and another about boy's nudity vs. girls, which Bunny seemed to take offense to that I might suggest sexism in such a thing. And also, some random bits thrown in about reddit for good measure.

The ultimate question I have is: If there were a role reversal and Cat were a man and Ned was a woman. Do YOU personally feel that the reaction to those characters would be exactly the same as the reaction now? Same dialogue, same motivations, same circumstance, but just switching the genders. If you think it would be the same, that people wouldn't cut a man a little bit more slack, that a female character as dumb as Ned would still be well liked just as much, then we're on two completely different wave lengths. And I happen not to agree.

Ned would have made one dumb bitch.

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Originally Posted by The Man

adwd spoilerhe starts out a villain, but by the end of adwd he definitely isn't one and it's pretty clear you're not supposed to think he deserves the horrifying torture he receives even after his horrific actions in acok.

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He's still a villain. Just not as much as (SPOILER)Ramsay Snow/Bolton.

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Originally Posted by Bunny

Off current topic spoilers:

(SPOILER)Did anyone else notice that they are making Roose's betrayal of Robb and the eventual Red Wedding scene more understandable to the audience with the introduction of Thalisa? There have been several scenes in which Robb and Roose have been talking, she comes in, and he dismisses him to his disappointment. If you look at his faces, you can see that he's growing more and more pissed at these instances. Thought it was kinda cool that they are starting to put it in the audiences heads this early.

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Yes, actually.

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Originally Posted by Miriel

The ultimate question I have is: If there were a role reversal and Cat were a man and Ned was a woman. Do YOU personally feel that the reaction to those characters would be exactly the same as the reaction now? Same dialogue, same motivations, same circumstance, but just switching the genders. If you think it would be the same, that people wouldn't cut a man a little bit more slack, that a female character as dumb as Ned would still be well liked just as much, then we're on two completely different wave lengths. And I happen not to agree.

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I have a feeling Freya's going to continue to walk past you, but for what it's worth I agree entirely with this point, and think that anyone who's living in denial of gender bias that hard has some impressive skills.

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

Ned would have made one dumb bitch.

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Fo' sho'.

did anyone buy the game?

Obviously you'll keep ignoring my points and continue to bring her gender into the equation rather than speaking of her actions objectively. I think you just plain skim over my posts. (not that I blame you they can get long) so ill just stop here with, I don't think gender has anything to do with my hate toward her and you think it does. That's that. Good job. We can stop this nonsense and get back to making this thread awesome like Paul wants.