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My personal view on it, which I cannot support with as many facts as I'd like, is that Cloud and Tifa knew each other at least decently well- they were next door neighbors, after all, and it's very difficult not to get to know those people very well- but that Tifa sort of took his presence, and him, for granted, but that after he made his declaration and went off to join Soldier, she realized what a ' good thing' had been under her nose the entire time.
that trust has probably got to do with the nibel mountain incident...she may nt have remembereed clearly the whole incident....but she knew cloud tried to help or maybe she remembered him following her and known he couldnt of pushed her off a cliff or whatever so she probably thought he was there to help....whatever...Aralith is right...and even if there wasnt evidence Square always describe them as childhood friends...
I didn't say she didn't know him at all. They grew up together in a small town. Of course they knew each other. I was saying they weren't close to each other. Not close enough for me to say they were friends. You're saying what would you do in that situation. Well, there are people I don't consider friends that I would trust. Meeting them at night wouldn't be too big a deal. Opening up and discovering them during a conversation at the town well woudln't be out of the question either. And if I were feeling particularly insecure, and even though we're not close I know I can trust this person. I may even be inclined to lean my securities on them a bit and ask if they'd be willing to be there for me in the future.Quote:
But if she didn't know him at all when they were children, why would she even bother coming. Also, why would she then make that deal with Cloud about her hero?
As for DM's whole "infatuation is bad" and "obsession means stalker" issue... um. What? You're not paying attention because you think I'm putting his emotions in a bad light by not using the word love. Even though I'm arguing that he wasn't in love with her so I can't use the word love. He had deep feelings for her yes. That doesn't always mean love. And when its not love doesn't always imply it's something bad. People can be obsessed with someone without stalking them. An infatuation can be innocent and good. I'm not trying to say Cloud was a mentally unstable childhood stalker. I'm saying he was too young to know what love was. He didn't know her well enough to think he could have been in love with her. He had a crush on her, and he let that crush guide him.
I've explained it enough. If you don't understand, then there's no help for you. You should probably look up what 'infatuation' and 'obsession' means. I never said that Cloud was a 'mentally unstable childhood stalker'; by using those words that is what, inadvertantly I believe, you are implying. 'Obsession' is a powerful word and I didn't see any shrine to Tifa made by Cloud ever mentioned; did you? I thought not. Besides this isn't a debate on if they were childhood friends or not. It's a debate on who Cloud loves, and you have said that he loves Tifa. So stop aimlessly ranting about something not related to this thread. If you feel compelled to continue going on about whether or not they were childhood friends, then make your own thread, and stop going on about it on this one.Quote:
As for DM's whole "infatuation is bad" and "obsession means stalker" issue... um. What? You're not paying attention because you think I'm putting his emotions in a bad light by not using the word love. Even though I'm arguing that he wasn't in love with her so I can't use the word love. He had deep feelings for her yes. That doesn't always mean love. And when its not love doesn't always imply it's something bad. People can be obsessed with someone without stalking them. An infatuation can be innocent and good. I'm not trying to say Cloud was a mentally unstable childhood stalker. I'm saying he was too young to know what love was. He didn't know her well enough to think he could have been in love with her. He had a crush on her, and he let that crush guide him.
Okay, so I found a new piece of game evidence that points towards Aerith. When you are at the end of the Temple of the Ancients, Cait Sith gives Aerith and Cloud a reading of their future. I wasn't going to use this before, but after just playing the game getting a date with Tifa, I have discovered that this is not variable text. The prediction that Cait Sith gives them is that they're perfect for each other.
Even if you've been mean to her the entire time (as I did in my game). So it's pretty obvious that even if he didn't love her, they certainly would have made the perfect couple. Even better than him and Tifa. Even Marlene thinks this. When Marlene says that she thinks the flower girl likes Cloud, if you respond "I don't know" she says: "Stupid".
Okay, I think that was acceptable, because no matter what you say to her, she says something that would be condusive to you liking Aerith. For if you choose the option, "Let's hope so", Marlene says, "It's okay. I won't tell Tifa." So, I hope this is admissable. If it's not, then just let me know Ruyshikaze.
Cloud should get rid of both of them, grab yuffie, a bottle of russian vodka with that all important bottle of coke, go find an inn and have one hell of a night.
EDIT: Maybe Elena from the turks could come too? Duuuuuude, that sounds........ Interesting.
I Am Stoner, if you really think that it was Yuffie that Cloud loved, please so say in a manner that would give you an atmosphere of credibility, and please support it with facts. Else you are not contributing to this debate.
1. If it is astrology, then we still have to deal with Cait's 1 in 4 success rate- less than real world fortune teller's average, scarily enough- especially that the 'success' is so vague as to be infalsifiable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aralith
2. Even though Cait says they are perfect, this is not the whole of the prediction. He also adds " Aeris's star and Cloud's star! They show a great future!", which given Aerith's end, is decidedly falsified.
3. If we assume is it opinion and not a falsified prediction, Cait is not Cloud. Cait cannot speak for Cloud. Or even if it was a true prediction, that Cloud would necessarily agree with it.
There is a reason I wanted to focus on Cloud, and it's because he's the only person who can speak for his own emotions.
Marlene is four. Marlene is also not Cloud. What others think is not necessarily what he thinks.Quote:
Even if you've been mean to her the entire time (as I did in my game). So it's pretty obvious that even if he didn't love her, they certainly would have made the perfect couple. Even better than him and Tifa. Even Marlene thinks this. When Marlene says that she thinks the flower girl likes Cloud, if you respond "I don't know" she says: "Stupid".
Only if the "Is she your girlfriend" answers Cloud himself gives to Aerith are also, both of which end up with a positive C/T reinforcements.Quote:
Okay, I think that was acceptable, because no matter what you say to her, she says something that would be condusive to you liking Aerith. For if you choose the option, "Let's hope so", Marlene says, "It's okay. I won't tell Tifa." So, I hope this is admissable. If it's not, then just let me know Ruyshikaze.
Hmm... very true, Ryushikaze. I did realize that Cait Sith has not the best of accuracy, but I had never thought of the whole, "Aerith's star," thing being false once she died. I guess if it was a true prediction then he would have also seen that coming. I withdraw my statement about the prediction, for it has no credibility whatsoever.
As for the rest of it, you are also correct. I concede. I'll try to make sure that I analyze my evidence more the next time I post. Until then, farewell.
Edit: When are you going to be finished with that essay, Ryu? I'm REALLY looking forward to it. It should be a good read.
Same here. (no pressure...I'm just looking forward to it) :)Quote:
When are you going to be finished with that essay, Ryu? I'm REALLY looking forward to it. It should be a good read.
Real life has been getting in the way. I'm currently up to the early portion of the game (for reference, the essay begins with Cloud's childhood).
this essay is in chronological order?....great.......
oh yeh...cait sith probably got confused with zack and cloud...i dunno but thats jus what i thought when i was playin through that part...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aralith
Hahaha, sorry if I offended you man, I didn't mean to. It was my idea of a joke. But now that I look at it, it wasn't funny. I should really stop drinking coffee, sorry dude.
Ooh, me too! Romance debates are the best parts about these forums!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
And I will continue to wait for the essay. So no matter how old this thread gets, at least I will be here to read it. And I will keep checking up on it to see if there has been any change. Just so you know that you still have an audience, Ryushikaze.