The plot (Spoilers)

Firstly I want to comment on the actual storyline, but that is not what this is really about. The story of FFXII does not that strong but when reading a story synopsis I realized that it was a lot better than I thought. Certain things just weren't made clear and was coupled with the fact that everything is too spread out over the game. Even so there seems to be a more interesting story in the Espers' backgrounds and other side quests. This bring me to the main point of the thread. If you read about the espers you have defeated in the bestiary you'll find a very interesting backstory about the espers being creations of the Gods, turning on thier duties and rebelling against the Gods. There is also the side quest where you are looking for the medallions to unlock certain areas in the Necrohol of Nabudis where Ma'keloh (or whatever) and the other two little hairy guys talk about you being a potential hero. Then there is also some of the marks you face. In the bestiary it may say how terrible these monsters are and how many people have lost their lives fighting them, yet at a high level they are piss easy and it seems that any person in the game's world can do. However you seem to be the only one who can vanquish these monsters of legend. What I'm trying to say is why are sidequest making you out to be a legendary hero but the main plot is about a war between nations: completely irrelevant and a waste of a potentially good plot with all these legends and tales of Espers vs the Gods. Squenix should've had something like this as their main plot with the war between Archadia and Dalmasca a side story that is the main focus at the start until a suitable plot twist is revealed. Those are just my thoughts on it. Sorry not breaking it up into paragraphs :p

The war is a secondary feature, kind of. The story is about Vayne trying to allow humanity to control history.

To facilitate this, he conspires with Venat and starts invading countries, gradually expanding his territory and power. The Occurians give Ashe the Treaty blade so she will stop Vayne and allow history to be under their control, but Ashe destroys the Sun-cryst instead, refusing to become their pawn. Meanwhile, Vayne has gone pretty much insane and attacks Rabanastre in the Bahamut. Ashe and her companions manage to kill Vayne, destroy the ship, and create peace without becoming a pawn of the Occurians.

If that isn't epic, then I don't know what the hell is.

Yes, Vayne's quest is epic, it is just told so badly! And him going insane in the end was a cop out methinks. The story writers realized that the plot was too ambivalent for the average gamer and decided to make Ashe = good, Vayne = bad in the last 5 minutes of the game, all of a sudden.

I agree with sword. The people who wrote the bestiary cards and the NPC dialogs wrote a lot better stories than the main scene writers (they were two different teams BTW)

Vayne didn't go insane in the end. I think he realised that his end was near, so he wanted to die a death suitable for him: in battle.

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Originally Posted by The Unknown Guru

The war is a secondary feature, kind of. The story is about Vayne trying to allow humanity to control history.

To facilitate this, he conspires with Venat and starts invading countries, gradually expanding his territory and power. The Occurians give Ashe the Treaty blade so she will stop Vayne and allow history to be under their control, but Ashe destroys the Sun-cryst instead, refusing to become their pawn. Meanwhile, Vayne has gone pretty much insane and attacks Rabanastre in the Bahamut. Ashe and her companions manage to kill Vayne, destroy the ship, and create peace without becoming a pawn of the Occurians.

If that isn't epic, then I don't know what the hell is.

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sure, on paper it is.

it didn't really play out that way with the actual game.

I did if the end battle had actually been between rozarria & archadia it would have been far more exciting plus some exploration of rozarria would have been nice too.

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Originally Posted by Sword

Firstly I want to comment on the actual storyline, but that is not what this is really about. The story of FFXII does not that strong but when reading a story synopsis I realized that it was a lot better than I thought. Certain things just weren't made clear and was coupled with the fact that everything is too spread out over the game. Even so there seems to be a more interesting story in the Espers' backgrounds and other side quests. This bring me to the main point of the thread. If you read about the espers you have defeated in the bestiary you'll find a very interesting backstory about the espers being creations of the Gods, turning on thier duties and rebelling against the Gods. There is also the side quest where you are looking for the medallions to unlock certain areas in the Necrohol of Nabudis where Ma'keloh (or whatever) and the other two little hairy guys talk about you being a potential hero. Then there is also some of the marks you face. In the bestiary it may say how terrible these monsters are and how many people have lost their lives fighting them, yet at a high level they are piss easy and it seems that any person in the game's world can do. However you seem to be the only one who can vanquish these monsters of legend. What I'm trying to say is why are sidequest making you out to be a legendary hero but the main plot is about a war between nations: completely irrelevant and a waste of a potentially good plot with all these legends and tales of Espers vs the Gods. Squenix should've had something like this as their main plot with the war between Archadia and Dalmasca a side story that is the main focus at the start until a suitable plot twist is revealed. Those are just my thoughts on it. Sorry not breaking it up into paragraphs :p

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You probably want to check out Tactics then, as it is set in XII's Ivalice. Though a different part of the world, the game does feature the Espers (now called the Lucavi) as the main villains. They probably didn't focus on them since it would have made the game too similiar to Tactics original storyline. Though XII finally sheds some light on who the Lucavi were.

Vayne never went nuts. He never went insane really. He wasn't some crap psycho in the end like Kefka. Sure, he got power hungry, but he just wanted, to be a Dynast King, free people from Occurrian control. His methods unorthodox yes, but he knew when the end was coming, and admitted that he had pretty much brought about the end of his own life - very much like a human being. These other villains didn't seem to recognise failure, they never recognised that their ignorance blinded them. Vayne was different. He knew when things were all over.

The end battle probably featured Rozzarrian forces - the resistance vs the Empire was a mix of people. Just Rozarria vs the Empire alone would have made the Resistance seem pretty pointless in the game.

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Originally Posted by The Unknown Guru

The war is a secondary feature, kind of. The story is about Vayne trying to allow humanity to control history.

To facilitate this, he conspires with Venat and starts invading countries, gradually expanding his territory and power. The Occurians give Ashe the Treaty blade so she will stop Vayne and allow history to be under their control, but Ashe destroys the Sun-cryst instead, refusing to become their pawn. Meanwhile, Vayne has gone pretty much insane and attacks Rabanastre in the Bahamut. Ashe and her companions manage to kill Vayne, destroy the ship, and create peace without becoming a pawn of the Occurians.

If that isn't epic, then I don't know what the hell is.

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That's what I was talking about that I read in a story synopsis and found out the story was better than I originally thought, but what I'm saying is that the only characters who are made anything close to heros at the end of it are Ashe and Basch. Yet in the sidequests the NPCs are claiming you (Vaan) have the potential to be freakin legendary hero which is somewhere they could have went with the main story and made it more fantasy-ish. I mean when you finish the game you don't get a real sense that you've accomplished something. Besides, "The Undying" was a terrible final boss.

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Originally Posted by Sword

Besides, "The Undying" was a terrible final boss.

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Objection! Well, each to his own actually, but... The Undying > Yu Yevon, at least... The Undying was the first FF Final Boss in a while I was actually impressed with.

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Originally Posted by Elpizo

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Originally Posted by Sword

Besides, "The Undying" was a terrible final boss.

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Objection! Well, each to his own actually, but... The Undying > Yu Yevon, at least... The Undying was the first FF Final Boss in a while I was actually impressed with.

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I'll counter that objection. Although I'll agree that Yu Yevon was bad. The Undying wasn't necessary story-wise. It just seemed like a pointless excuse to have a "big" final boss. "Oh let's make him go outside and merge with the Bahamut", I mean it's not original at all is it? It would have been better I you were transported to a place of the Gods (like in Giruvegan or something) and had to fight Venat in possibly some other form (and Vayne would already have died by this point). Besides, we didn't actually get to see what happened to Venat at the end anyway.

We all saw what happened at the end, and Venat formed forces with Vayne, they also merged with Sky Fortress Bahumut, and if you did take notice, it is a fortress full of nethicite, and an Occurian God can easily take advantage of such a situation. Vayne was not delluded with insanity or the sort, he just came to a conclusion that maybe it was all over, and to come out with a bang; thus taking down the ones who had ruined his intentions.

I found the war lacking on the Rozzarians behalf, and you hardly even recognised what role they played, apart from two occasions when you meet with Al Cid. It was brief, and should of been explored more in depth, and we should of got o venture into Rozzarian lands, and get a eel of their culture, how they feel about they hatred between them and the Archadians, and ultimately, we should of been able to explore more than just East Ivalice.

On terms of understanding, I could easily follow each even that took tow in the game, but felt slightly deprieved of how great they could of made this game, it had the hugest potential out of all of the Final Fantasys in my opinion, and I also admired how they made this game more realistic, and focused on a political feud in this installment, rather than a crazy physcopath, who wants revenge or just wants to see people suffer.

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Originally Posted by Sword

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Originally Posted by Elpizo

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Originally Posted by Sword

Besides, "The Undying" was a terrible final boss.

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Objection! Well, each to his own actually, but... The Undying > Yu Yevon, at least... The Undying was the first FF Final Boss in a while I was actually impressed with.

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I'll counter that objection. Although I'll agree that Yu Yevon was bad. The Undying wasn't necessary story-wise. It just seemed like a pointless excuse to have a "big" final boss. "Oh let's make him go outside and merge with the Bahamut", I mean it's not original at all is it? It would have been better I you were transported to a place of the Gods (like in Giruvegan or something) and had to fight Venat in possibly some other form (and Vayne would already have died by this point). Besides, we didn't actually get to see what happened to Venat at the end anyway.

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I think it's pretty obvious Venat merged with Vayne so they could die together. Hence his "You shall not thread this path alone, together we go, come."
The Undying was in some way necesary, to conclude the Venat/Cid/Vayne part of the story, by getting rid of all 3 of em.

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Originally Posted by Elpizo

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Originally Posted by Sword

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Originally Posted by Elpizo

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Originally Posted by Sword

Besides, "The Undying" was a terrible final boss.

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Objection! Well, each to his own actually, but... The Undying > Yu Yevon, at least... The Undying was the first FF Final Boss in a while I was actually impressed with.

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I'll counter that objection. Although I'll agree that Yu Yevon was bad. The Undying wasn't necessary story-wise. It just seemed like a pointless excuse to have a "big" final boss. "Oh let's make him go outside and merge with the Bahamut", I mean it's not original at all is it? It would have been better I you were transported to a place of the Gods (like in Giruvegan or something) and had to fight Venat in possibly some other form (and Vayne would already have died by this point). Besides, we didn't actually get to see what happened to Venat at the end anyway.

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I think it's pretty obvious Venat merged with Vayne so they could die together. Hence his "You shall not thread this path alone, together we go, come."
The Undying was in some way necesary, to conclude the Venat/Cid/Vayne part of the story, by getting rid of all 3 of em.

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I took it as Venat was leading him to the Afterlife. I think Vayne said something like they were going to meet Cid.

The Final Boss was pretty much like I would expect in a FF - 2/3 versions of the same dude, getting stronger. a little annoying having to follow him around in a circle.

Haven't you all had this conversation 10 times already?

15 times ;)