Maxing the PS3?

was just scanning the news page and came across this.

I'd assumed that FF13 was just going to further FF12's MMO style with the odd bit of "next-gen" flashiness, which I wasn't too interested in, but this sounds much more intriguing.

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In addition, Nomura stated that the whopping 50 gigabytes of storage available on Blu-Ray, when combined with the technical horsepower of the console, will allow for the technical advancement from the last entry in the series, FFXII, to be as great as the jump from Final Fantasy VI on the SNES to Final Fantasy VII on the Playstation.

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Ancient as FF7 may look now, the jump from FF6's entirely 2d look to what were at the time jaw dropping visuals, particularly in battle, was a massive technical feat, not to mention semi-3d environments to explore.

Just wondering if anyone has any idea exactly what this could entail? What could Square possibly be throwing in to make it sound comparable to the 2d-3d switch?

I don't know but it's going to be ultimate. FF XIII is going to sell a lot of PS 3's next fall. :)

I'm sure it will be absolutely beautiful, but unless it's a fourth dimension Goddess I don't really see how it could be such a leap. It looks to me to just be a prettier version of what we saw on the Ps2, like most current gen titles. A little cleaner, a little shinier... Square likes to exaggerate :bigsmile:

I hope that FFXIII dosen't max out the PS3. I would be so mad. Cause then the other games would either not be equally as good or just the same kind. I'm not saying that I liked FFXIII but if that maxed out the PS3 what would their be to look foward to with the other games besides storylines.

^
SE games look always much better then what the competition have. At least with RPGs.

I have noticed with the new FFXIII trailer how real time and CGI scenes flow so well and the action is amazing. We might expect CGI graphics a little from the gameplay. That would be so cool!

While the graphics in both games will no doubt be amazing, they wont be maxing the PS3 since the White Engine only uses 4 out of the 6 processors. Imagine what it would be like if it used all 6 processors!

It takes anywhere between 4-6 years to max out a console. No doubt here that FF XIII will look and play awesome, but max out the PS3? Two years into its lifecycle? Not gonna happen.

As an aside, I rarely buy it when companies tell me that "X" system is the only system that could possibly run "Y" game. Remember how there was no way that Resident Evil 4 could run on the PS2? Or how Oblivion wouldn’t run as well if it was ported to the PS3? How did those ‘certainties’ turn out?

I think they're just trying to build hype. :P

I think they could why not!? I would love to see it happen and it'll prove just how great traditional style RPGs are.

I dont think they mean it will be the end-all capacity display of the ps3. I believe they mean it will be the first game to really show what the system is capable of, much like FFX on ps2 and FFVII on ps1.

Only Team-Ico can max the PS3.

FFXIII/versus will sure look amazing though.

It's easy as hell to max out the ps3.

You make a sphere in favorite 3d software, you meshsmooth it until your computer starts chrashing and then you give it some very high res reflections + some killer light.

If we however are talking about optimizing that will never be done %100 as that is impossible... There is always something you can optimize more.

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Originally Posted by Pure Strife

Just wondering if anyone has any idea exactly what this could entail? What could Square possibly be throwing in to make it sound comparable to the 2d-3d switch?

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I think quotations like that are spoken mainly for promotional or public relations purposes; however, at the same time, technology has progressed rapidly and allows developers to utilize graphical compression to its fullest and provide much more content on a single disc than ever before.

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Originally Posted by Silvercry

It takes anywhere between 4-6 years to max out a console. No doubt here that FF XIII will look and play awesome, but max out the PS3? Two years into its lifecycle? Not gonna happen.

As an aside, I rarely buy it when companies tell me that "X" system is the only system that could possibly run "Y" game. Remember how there was no way that Resident Evil 4 could run on the PS2? Or how Oblivion wouldn’t run as well if it was ported to the PS3? How did those ‘certainties’ turn out?

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Square Enix is the Sony's favourite taste. I could tell that Sony has been giving info to SE about how to max out FF13 ;)

FF13 is sorely the reason why I'm buying PS3 soon.

I think it might.
I dont understand why it takes 4-6 years to make out a system, though. I mean, why can't they just... put as must as it can take in one game? Why does it take years to max it out? That makes no sense... Explain please :)

To every action, there is a re-action. Maybe now the enviroment in Final Fantasy is a lot more important than in the previous installments.

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Originally Posted by tidus_rox

I think it might.
I dont understand why it takes 4-6 years to make out a system, though. I mean, why can't they just... put as must as it can take in one game? Why does it take years to max it out? That makes no sense... Explain please :)

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Because after 4-6 years of experimenting with a system you'll know a lot more about what it is capable of and how to manipulate it to get the most possible use out of it.

As it already been said,
Square Enix only wants to build a lot of hype around the game.
It won't really max it, but it will still look pretty amazing.

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Only Team-Ico can max the PS3.

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Yes. Just take a look at Larahl's Sig.

im so getting a ps3 for this game.....

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Originally Posted by Sagensyg

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Only Team-Ico can max the PS3.

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Yes. Just take a look at Larahl's Sig.

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Yes, max it to the point where the framerate sucks. :P Quite an accomplishment.

I dunno, My sister has a ps3 and my bro-in-law plays it alot, and I guess I'm old and I don't like my games looking -that- real.

The only thing that keeps me with RPG's that look -that- real is the awe of the graphics, other than that, I end up feeling like I'm in an interactive movie, most likely one of those random CG movies that seem to be coming out in the theaters more and more.

It's just RPG's though, I like race car games looking realistic or fighting games looking realistic, I just feel RPG's as telling a story, and well, telling a story in a form that relies on 80% visual and 20% mental just feels like a movie.

I like how the graphic for the games r great but not like actuall humans look. If that happend i think that would ruin the up coming Final Fantasy Titles.

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Originally Posted by Omega Cloud

I like how the graphic for the games r great but not like actuall humans look. If that happend i think that would ruin the up coming Final Fantasy Titles.

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I agree on that one.Graphics dont have to be photorealistic to be good.Unfortunately most western developed games try very much to be as photorealistic as possible (especially at character design) and imo it ruins the atmosphere of the games.

I think the ultimate accomplishment an RPG could make in this next-gen era is taking something unrealistic and making it look realistic. XIII seems to be on the right track so far. Many critics have already credited certain RPGs for surpassing movies in storytelling, music has been brought up to to the level it is in other media forms, and the main challenge of gameplay's only real barrier left goes back to making it presented well visually.

S-E might not be able to max the PS3, but they will come pretty close. I am confident that FFXIII will be a great game, graphically and technically. Maybe they will max out the PS3 whenever they make their third Final Fantasy on the PS3 console, but even then, they probably could still put much much more into their games. :)

I don't know why you people are so upfront about this, such as saying no, they won't max it out. What did you actually expect? You are only saying that they won't max it out because of the 'it will take years and years for a game to max out PS3" fact? However, a similar situation already have happened in the past (it was PS2, those games have maxed out PS2 after years) BUT that was because everything were old back then. Besides that, you have to consider the economy/developments rate in Japan at the moment, they grow and evolve a lot faster THAN before, so that means they could (especially japanese programmers) gain the ability to max out PS3 early, due to the latest developments that Japan have.

You never know, there's no pure evidence in backing up the claim (oh n0ez, it will take years for it to max out). Think about it, the game isn't even fully made yet, so how can we know for sure that it won't be maxed out or at least almost maxed out? Sometimes, the FF13 developers make new decisions without informing people in the media... so opinions change from time to time. No need to be upfront about it, it's not a crime to be optimistic about it either.

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S-E might not be able to max the PS3, but they will come pretty close. I am confident that FFXIII will be a great game, graphically and technically. Maybe they will max out the PS3 whenever they make their third Final Fantasy on the PS3 console, but even then, they probably could still put much much more into their games.

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SE has the best relationship with Sony (teh creator of P$3) for gaming on the platforms, they share best interactions to each other, e.g. feeding information to each other about in-depth of PS3. So that means there's a chance that they will max it out earlier.

It would be awesome if they could max it out on the first PS3 title and then spend all the time for the subsequent titles on story and gameplay.

As sweet as that sounds I would say it’s unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

I don't know why you people are so upfront about this, such as saying no, they won't max it out. What did you actually expect? You are only saying that they won't max it out because of the 'it will take years and years for a game to max out PS3" fact? However, a similar situation already have happened in the past (it was PS2, those games have maxed out PS2 after years) BUT that was because everything were old back then. Besides that, you have to consider the economy/developments rate in Japan at the moment, they grow and evolve a lot faster THAN before, so that means they could (especially japanese programmers) gain the ability to max out PS3 early, due to the latest developments that Japan have.

You never know, there's no pure evidence in backing up the claim (oh n0ez, it will take years for it to max out). Think about it, the game isn't even fully made yet, so how can we know for sure that it won't be maxed out or at least almost maxed out? Sometimes, the FF13 developers make new decisions without informing people in the media... so opinions change from time to time. No need to be upfront about it, it's not a crime to be optimistic about it either.

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S-E might not be able to max the PS3, but they will come pretty close. I am confident that FFXIII will be a great game, graphically and technically. Maybe they will max out the PS3 whenever they make their third Final Fantasy on the PS3 console, but even then, they probably could still put much much more into their games.

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SE has the best relationship with Sony (teh creator of P$3) for gaming on the platforms, they share best interactions to each other, e.g. feeding information to each other about in-depth of PS3. So that means there's a chance that they will max it out earlier.

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I think the critics are getting too caught up on the "Max out the ps3" term - that was the EoFF front page's words. Nomura's statement was that it would be the first game to take full advantage of the ps3 - something which the FF team under Kitase, going all the way back to the Super Nintendo, has done for every system

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Originally Posted by Serapy

I don't know why you people are so upfront about this, such as saying no, they won't max it out. What did you actually expect? You are only saying that they won't max it out because of the 'it will take years and years for a game to max out PS3" fact? However, a similar situation already have happened in the past (it was PS2, those games have maxed out PS2 after years) BUT that was because everything were old back then. Besides that, you have to consider the economy/developments rate in Japan at the moment, they grow and evolve a lot faster THAN before, so that means they could (especially japanese programmers) gain the ability to max out PS3 early, due to the latest developments that Japan have.

You never know, there's no pure evidence in backing up the claim (oh n0ez, it will take years for it to max out). Think about it, the game isn't even fully made yet, so how can we know for sure that it won't be maxed out or at least almost maxed out?

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But the White Engine only uses 4 out of the 6 SPUs. So I assume that technically speaking, it is impossible for FFXIII to max out the PS3. Even though I dont really know what SPUs are.

I think the SPUs, or SPEs, are like mini-processors; each one can supposedly be programmed to handle different tasks like AI, or possibly even help with some of the graphic stuff that the RSX would do.

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Originally Posted by Omega Cloud

I hope that FFXIII dosen't max out the PS3. I would be so mad. Cause then the other games would either not be equally as good or just the same kind. I'm not saying that I liked FFXIII but if that maxed out the PS3 what would their be to look foward to with the other games besides storylines.

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you can look at ps2 and even ps3 games where the graphics and engine are superior to other games that were made around the same time. it's all about developer's experimenting and learning what a system can do as time goes by and more games are released. in another five years, we'll be seeing ps3 and 360 games that will be superior to ffXIII, no doubt.

It's not just a matter of what the PS3 can do, but a matter of being able to use the development software and use it to it's full potential.

I am going to guess that there are a lot of people in this thread that don't really know what entails in making video game content, especially for a console. It's quite a difficult task, as you don't just have to think about the technology and the new tools large teams need to learn and incorporate within the PS3 technology. But you also have to think about the guidelines that Sony want you to go through to get your game on their system -- it's quite a maze and incredibly difficult to achieve.

You will notice that a lot of earlier Playstation and Playstation 2 games are not as up to the quality of later games on their systems (example FF7 to FF9 is quite a jump, as is FF10 to FF12). It's all a matter of utilizing and learning newer technology and development tools to incorporate for that system.

Game engines aren't just "put this maximum amount of content in the game and it'll work great with a PS3". The developers have to actually try to work around so many things to optomize and utilize the PS3 hardware for their game and the engine/editor they are using.

However, I think that we may just catch up a little faster with the newer consoles than we have in the past. We have a pretty good understanding of things such as specular, diffuse displacement, bump and normal maps that we'll see hyper-realism in games in no time (after all, it is reaching a point where there will be no difference between films and games as the budget and technology is widely available).

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Originally Posted by Omecle

It's not just a matter of what the PS3 can do, but a matter of being able to use the development software and use it to it's full potential.

I am going to guess that there are a lot of people in this thread that don't really know what entails in making video game content, especially for a console. It's quite a difficult task, as you don't just have to think about the technology and the new tools large teams need to learn and incorporate within the PS3 technology. But you also have to think about the guidelines that Sony want you to go through to get your game on their system -- it's quite a maze and incredibly difficult to achieve.

You will notice that a lot of earlier Playstation and Playstation 2 games are not as up to the quality of later games on their systems (example FF7 to FF9 is quite a jump, as is FF10 to FF12). It's all a matter of utilizing and learning newer technology and development tools to incorporate for that system.

Game engines aren't just "put this maximum amount of content in the game and it'll work great with a PS3". The developers have to actually try to work around so many things to optomize and utilize the PS3 hardware for their game and the engine/editor they are using.

However, I think that we may just catch up a little faster with the newer consoles than we have in the past. We have a pretty good understanding of things such as specular, diffuse displacement, bump and normal maps that we'll see hyper-realism in games in no time (after all, it is reaching a point where there will be no difference between films and games as the budget and technology is widely available).

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At the moment, not really, not that difficult. Look at our current trends, companies have developed powerful technologies = better user friendly = easier for developers to adapt with. True, it was difficult in the past, because that timeline didn't have those powerful technologies like today.

I've been a software/graphic engineer for a while. Back in 2003, I found it quite difficult to learn a specific programming language to interact with my graphic projects. It took me a long time to finish.

But a few years later as new technologies have came out, I've found it a lot easier to learn another language, mainly because of the newest technologies (more user friendly, etc). What does that mean? Means that I've completed my projects based on the new technologies earlier, saved me a lot of time.

That's the whole point. With the new technologies, the PS3 developers WILL find it easier to deal with the full details of the PS3.

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Omecle

It's not just a matter of what the PS3 can do, but a matter of being able to use the development software and use it to it's full potential.

I am going to guess that there are a lot of people in this thread that don't really know what entails in making video game content, especially for a console. It's quite a difficult task, as you don't just have to think about the technology and the new tools large teams need to learn and incorporate within the PS3 technology. But you also have to think about the guidelines that Sony want you to go through to get your game on their system -- it's quite a maze and incredibly difficult to achieve.

You will notice that a lot of earlier Playstation and Playstation 2 games are not as up to the quality of later games on their systems (example FF7 to FF9 is quite a jump, as is FF10 to FF12). It's all a matter of utilizing and learning newer technology and development tools to incorporate for that system.

Game engines aren't just "put this maximum amount of content in the game and it'll work great with a PS3". The developers have to actually try to work around so many things to optomize and utilize the PS3 hardware for their game and the engine/editor they are using.

However, I think that we may just catch up a little faster with the newer consoles than we have in the past. We have a pretty good understanding of things such as specular, diffuse displacement, bump and normal maps that we'll see hyper-realism in games in no time (after all, it is reaching a point where there will be no difference between films and games as the budget and technology is widely available).

---

At the moment, not really, not that difficult. Look at our current trends, companies have developed powerful technologies = better user friendly = easier for developers to adapt with. True, it was difficult in the past, because that timeline didn't have those powerful technologies like today.

I've been a software/graphic engineer for a while. Back in 2003, I found it quite difficult to learn a specific programming language to interact with my graphic projects. It took me a long time to finish.

But a few years later as new technologies have came out, I've found it a lot easier to learn another language, mainly because of the newest technologies (more user friendly, etc). What does that mean? Means that I've completed my projects based on the new technologies earlier, saved me a lot of time.

That's the whole point. With the new technologies, the PS3 developers WILL find it easier to deal with the full details of the PS3.

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Yes but that doesn't fully respond to what I was talking about. Engineering is different to designing-and-making content for a particular medium. There's so much more to video games than the engineers that come up with the software to run and help construct the games.

You have to look at how best it is to optimize certain aspects to run with the PS3 better. You can't just slap on specular, normal, bump, displacement, diffuse maps and just expect it to be uber graphically awesome. Hell, a lot of companies are requiring their employees and potential employees to take courses in PS3 programming and the like -- which won't be a quick feat.

There will be so much that third party developers will need to learn and experiment with before they can even think of just "maxing" out the PS3. Sure it may be quicker this time around (we're going to get to the point where it's not just about the technology, but more innovation and design, which I think needs to happen now).

^ But that goes back to what I originally said. Squaresoft never said they're going to "max out" the ps3 - that's eoff's terminology they used. they simply said it was going to be the first game to take full advantage of ps3's hardware, and given the games that have come out on ps3, we still have yet to see a game that will do that. given square's track record, the fact that graphics have been an important part even going all the way back to their NES days, XIII could be that title.

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Originally Posted by Omecle

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Originally Posted by Serapy

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Originally Posted by Omecle

It's not just a matter of what the PS3 can do, but a matter of being able to use the development software and use it to it's full potential.

I am going to guess that there are a lot of people in this thread that don't really know what entails in making video game content, especially for a console. It's quite a difficult task, as you don't just have to think about the technology and the new tools large teams need to learn and incorporate within the PS3 technology. But you also have to think about the guidelines that Sony want you to go through to get your game on their system -- it's quite a maze and incredibly difficult to achieve.

You will notice that a lot of earlier Playstation and Playstation 2 games are not as up to the quality of later games on their systems (example FF7 to FF9 is quite a jump, as is FF10 to FF12). It's all a matter of utilizing and learning newer technology and development tools to incorporate for that system.

Game engines aren't just "put this maximum amount of content in the game and it'll work great with a PS3". The developers have to actually try to work around so many things to optomize and utilize the PS3 hardware for their game and the engine/editor they are using.

However, I think that we may just catch up a little faster with the newer consoles than we have in the past. We have a pretty good understanding of things such as specular, diffuse displacement, bump and normal maps that we'll see hyper-realism in games in no time (after all, it is reaching a point where there will be no difference between films and games as the budget and technology is widely available).

---

At the moment, not really, not that difficult. Look at our current trends, companies have developed powerful technologies = better user friendly = easier for developers to adapt with. True, it was difficult in the past, because that timeline didn't have those powerful technologies like today.

I've been a software/graphic engineer for a while. Back in 2003, I found it quite difficult to learn a specific programming language to interact with my graphic projects. It took me a long time to finish.

But a few years later as new technologies have came out, I've found it a lot easier to learn another language, mainly because of the newest technologies (more user friendly, etc). What does that mean? Means that I've completed my projects based on the new technologies earlier, saved me a lot of time.

That's the whole point. With the new technologies, the PS3 developers WILL find it easier to deal with the full details of the PS3.

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Yes but that doesn't fully respond to what I was talking about. Engineering is different to designing-and-making content for a particular medium. There's so much more to video games than the engineers that come up with the software to run and help construct the games.

You have to look at how best it is to optimize certain aspects to run with the PS3 better. You can't just slap on specular, normal, bump, displacement, diffuse maps and just expect it to be uber graphically awesome. Hell, a lot of companies are requiring their employees and potential employees to take courses in PS3 programming and the like -- which won't be a quick feat.

There will be so much that third party developers will need to learn and experiment with before they can even think of just "maxing" out the PS3. Sure it may be quicker this time around (we're going to get to the point where it's not just about the technology, but more innovation and design, which I think needs to happen now).

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Having a great relationship with suppliers is also important, they provide support, etc.

SquareEnix and Sony have a great relationship. I'm not surprised if Sony has been giving important information to SquareEnix on how to get into deeper details about the PS3.

sure hope to see a demo of FFXIII soon.

Don't get your hopes up.

Nah, we're bound to have one.
Guarantied.

Not any time soon, though.

I think it may be out in November, but I wonder how we get it. Maybe bundled with The Last Remnant, or a standalone disc from a magazine, or a download from Xbox Live or PSN? :p?

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Originally Posted by Dragonsoul

I think it may be out in November, but I wonder how we get it. Maybe bundled with The Last Remnant, or a standalone disc from a magazine, or a download from Xbox Live or PSN? :p?

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I doubt it being bundled with Last Remant, too. Last Remnant is 360 exclusive in November, and they aren't putting XIII onto Xbox until after it's release in Japan as a PS3 exclusive.

I don't see how blu-ray capabilities are relevant if it's on the 360 as well. =/

Maybe it'll come with Advent Children.

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Originally Posted by Roto13

Maybe it'll come with Advent Children.

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Maybe I've just decided between my "360 or PS3?" choice... :cool:

I'm going to buy a Playstation 3 instead of a Xbox 360 then! My choice is finished. It'll be a while before it comes out in Usa, so I have time to upgrade my pc and car first though. :)

No one has been able to max out the PS3's Potencial yet.
Let's hope FFXIII is up for the task.