Which game do you prefer Final Fantasy VIII or Dragon Quest VIII? I prefer Dragon Quest VIII because there was only one annoying character in that game. (Princess Medea)
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Which game do you prefer Final Fantasy VIII or Dragon Quest VIII? I prefer Dragon Quest VIII because there was only one annoying character in that game. (Princess Medea)
Dragon Quest VIII is one of the better DQ games and probably the biggest step forward the series has seen since the NES days. Final Fantasy VIII has a clunky, broken battle system and a poorly constructed narrative. DQVIII is leaps and bounds better.
On what basis Karellen would you say the FFVIII battle system was broken?
The draw method was tedious it could have been innovative if say spirit had affected the number and the max had not been 9 because it would then reward people who understood the junction system. FFVIII had a similar battle system in many regards to FFIX or FFVII (in FFIX you run around for many hours doing the exact same thing of fighting enemies for hours on end to learn abilities, on FFVII you ran around for hours on end levelling up your materia to master level to make the most of it in the extremely fiendish boss levels, or atleast fiendish for their time same can be said for ALL FF games prior to XI and XII)
The junctioning itself most people will claim is "broken" because they did not understand how to do it because on the main part it was not as simple as "this materia makes this spell target all allies/enemies but only works in a double or joined slot with a spell materia" or they just didn't pay enough attention to the tutorial or even just what was obvious. I have in the past written the technique of junctioning magic and GFs to ALL characters in the party (Rinoa's set is used by Edea when she is in the party for the journey to Esthar) and maximising the potential of the junction system. I won't repeat it here but I can say it provided me with a party selection where it didn't matter who Ultimecia chose to fight against my party won without losses. So I'd like to see you elaborate more on how the fight system is "broken" and "clunky" as you put it.
It's broken because you can make your characters ridiculously powerful very early on in a relatively short amount of time. It's clunky because standing around drawing magic for about ten minutes each time a new spell comes up is beyond tedious.
Not true, but if you spend your time on getting stronger items then you deserve to get them which isn't a crime and plus the level of each enemy will be always in your level's range which makes things not easier (apart from some, I forget which), so I don't see how is that ridiculously powerful? Unless you've used a memory hacking device.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
I never pretty much draw off monsters a lot, I only draw off draw points which is enough for me. If I need to draw off monsters, in that case which I did, I didn't see how was that tedious as it only took around 1 min to get full numbers. You don't only have to draw in order to get those magic, you can even convert from stones to draw magics by using GF abilities.Quote:
It's clunky because standing around drawing magic for about ten minutes each time a new spell comes up is beyond tedious.
I prefer FF8 not fully because of the battle system but it has got a great story and characters behind the story. The story is very debating which I found very fascinating and more interesting than DQ3.
As soon as you learn the life refinery ability off siren you can load your HP up with Curaga by refining tents. Similarly, once you save Ellone and receive a decent supply of Wizard Stones you can load your strength with level 3 magic via elemental refineries. This pretty much makes the whole game a complete joke, since all you have to do after that is put Squall in critical condition for the whole game and kill bosses with two or three limit breaks. These abilities only require 30 AP each, thus take no time at all to learn. If a game rewards you that much for so little effort, there is a fundamental flaw with the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
At the very beginning of the game you have no choice but to stand around drawing (and it takes a LOT longer then one minute to stock all three characters). In addition, there are a few bosses thereafter that have decent magic that you can't get abundantly until the very end of the game. You don't have to do it all the time, but when you do end up doing it on occasion it's a tedious, repetitive task completely void of any entertainment value. It's almost as bad as attacking yourself over and over again in FFII. Almost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
FF8 is the best. DQ8 was just a good game but nothing special.
Through Refining skills and some items you can indeed make yourself uber-god in Disc 1 if you so choose :grover: But you really need to know what you're doing for that, and it's entirely up to you to do it at all. VIII's system is caught between people who know how to exploit it and people who can't figure it out at all.
Except I still like VIII better. It tried something very different and I feel it succeeded enough. I had fun with it and found it more addictive with greater rewards from battle, and its narrative was more enthralling to me than "evil guy wants to do evil stuff" (coincidences included in my assessment). VIII's plot gets picked on a lot, but I guess I bought into it more than most.
DQVIII is still a great game. But as we all know, conceding they're both good isn't really an option. You must CHOOSE OR DIE, and BE KILLED if your choice is not THE CORRECT one. Gamers are fun that way.
I disagree, because as you later stated, it's the magic refining abilities which can allow for the game to be easily broken early on. However, there are 20+ abilities for GFs to learn, and any given player may opt to learn other abilities prior. Also, you do get a few stones that refine highly early on, but even then, the magic you refine isn't enough to give your characters overly-exploited attributes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
Also, you don't have to draw to the max everytime a new magic comes out. You should only do as much as you need. That's like seeing the Level # in prior FF's and thinking that it means you have to get it to 99 before proceeding.
For that being, said, I prefer VIII much more because the Junciton system is so open ended that you can get a different experience each time you play. Variation is something almost completely ignored in DQVIII.
That's not to say it's not one of my favorite RPG's. As far as traditional, dragons & princesses RPGs go, it's done about as well as it can be, the game is huge, the amount of side content is massive, and the graphics and music are some of the most breathtaking I've witnessed in a game.
The truth is the Kitase/Nomura/Nojima/Uematsu team took alot more risks and made extremely unique games in their time together. The story in VIII is well directed and there are few gaming expriences like it, to me.
You kinda have to know ahead of time what you're doing to get to the ridiculous stat levels :p
Just because there are people who don’t understand the junctioning system well enough to exploit it doesn’t make it less exploitable. Similarly, choosing not to exploit it doesn’t make it any less exploitable either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Have you actually tried it? The amount of firagas you can refine out of the wizard stones you get from saving Ellone is more then enough to cause the amount of damage I described.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
It’s more like a game where enemies don’t give you experience unless you’re in a couple of pre-defined areas. Obviously in that situation you’re going to level up as much as is reasonable while you’re able. A game like that would be critically panned because leveling has changed from a parallel process like it is in other games to something that stops the progression of the game. Drawing magic is basically that. Obviously players are going to stock up on as much as they can, because they don’t know when they will next be able to (or do, and realize it’s going to be a while before they get another chance to) stock up on X magic. Only, unlike every other magic/ability system in the series where you just gain AP or whatever as you go (besides II, which is equally bad), you have to stop your progress and dedicate time to one, repetitive cause. Drawing is a hideously designed system with absolutely no redeeming qualities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
If this game was easy for you, then I guess beating Omega Weapon was easy for you as well :( It wasn't for me anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
If the way of how the battle system works as intended by the programmers then it's not supposed to be flawed. You are only saying that because you have played other FF games and apparently have found FF8 the easiest one if I'm wrong. One of each FF battle systems is supposed to be unique in thier own ways and FF8 happen to be on that hand. You're probably a skilled FF player but I don't generally think it was that easy. Maybe not very hard but time-consuming.
I prefer the Junction System.
As to this day it's unique, I'd love for it to be built on in a future game.
i like final fantasy VIII more better it may be old but its still a pretty awsome game. i like dragonquest is well but i didnt like the part how you mix items in a pot it was annoying.
I think mixing items in a pot was less annoying than drawing magic from monsters during a battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ff is da best
I find FFVIII to be the better of the two.
I don't really know what you're talking about there are a couple of times in the game where you save Ellone and I've just replayed the game recently and I have hardly any Wizard stones in fact just 20, but I spend mine scarcely and evenly. Now I have a whole lot of magics up, but I still find myself losing against bosses, like Bahamut and Ultimecia which now for some reason I can't even beat her 1st form when I beat her completely with 1 try on my 1st playthrough. You can't make that accusation that everyone would try to levelup and stock up on as much magic as they can you might, but a lot of us don't like me. I'm probably losing the game right now because most of my characters are in the 20's and Squall is like 55.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
Overall both games have flaws FFVIII's I see drawing as cbeing able to collect enough items to uprgade weapons as a flaw and the inabilty to go back to your present time to do things you might have forgotten to do in Disc 4 which they don't give you any time at all to go back.I see DQVIII's lack of abilty to gain gold in the game as a flaw. It was very difficult in the game to find a lot of the items for alchemy in the game so those are the two problems. I prefer DQVIII's battle system and storytelling more than FFVIII's because it's more lighthearted. Between the two I say that DQVIII is better.
Nope. Drawing magic takes one second.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_912I think mixing items in a pot was less annoying than drawing magic from monsters during a battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ff is da best
Agreed. Drawing isn't a top priority either.Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin'Nope. Drawing magic takes one second.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_912I think mixing items in a pot was less annoying than drawing magic from monsters during a battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ff is da best
Yeah but what if you're drawing magic for all three characters?...And monsters can still attack you while you're drawing magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin'Nope. Drawing magic takes one second.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_912I think mixing items in a pot was less annoying than drawing magic from monsters during a battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ff is da best
Dragon Quest VIII retained my hair better. Therefore, I vote for it.
Cast sleep on those monsters and start drawing, problem solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_912Yeah but what if you're drawing magic for all three characters?...And monsters can still attack you while you're drawing magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin'Nope. Drawing magic takes one second.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_912I think mixing items in a pot was less annoying than drawing magic from monsters during a battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ff is da best
But what if thats what you are trying to draw?Quote:
Originally Posted by SerapyCast sleep on those monsters and start drawing, problem solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_912Yeah but what if you're drawing magic for all three characters?...And monsters can still attack you while you're drawing magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin'Nope. Drawing magic takes one second.Quote:
Originally Posted by John_912I think mixing items in a pot was less annoying than drawing magic from monsters during a battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by ff is da best
then cast it from their stock :p
Stop pyramiding.
Well I played a bit of Dragon Quest VIII but just couldn't get into it. The French translation probably sucks too.
Once again, I disagree with your first and second comments for my previous point - the exploitability of the game is largely exaggerated, especially by those searching for reasons to bash the game (i'm not saying you're one of them). Of course I've refined the Wizard Stones you get from saving Ellone - there are only 8. That gives you 40 -aga magics. Maybe you were underleveled, but even if you gave all 40 to one stat on one character, that hardly makes them broken. Not to mention that would be using up the entire thing on ONLY one stat for ONLY one character; its far from broken. Spreading out the magics, as I'm sure alot of people would do, highly reduces the effectiveness. The only other method early in the game would be to refine tents into curagas, but that is expensive considering the salary in the beginning of the game. If you were to use a cheat sheet and fly through the exams, (which you can only take up to your level) it reinforces what I said earlier - that you're still spending time away from the main story to do these things, much like level grinding in any other title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karellen
As far as your third point, your example makes no sense. Every RPG has monsters in pre-designated areas, so I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to say. You hardly need to stock up on as much magic as possible in order to progress through the game, only some, and that's it, not to mention with the reifning process, you can have characters which never need the draw command (it is optional, by the way). Also, you should refrain from using words like "absolutely" in describing your disgust for the system, because it's only your opinion. Rather than "a hideously designed system with absolutely no redeeming qualities" alot of people like me find it to be an intriguingly designed and incredibly flexible system which allows for a fresh experience every time you pick up the game.
I agree with boliovar about the infinitely flexible and intriguing bit :)
As I said, the amount was enough to allow me to kill bosses with two or three limit breaks. I’m not saying the amount you get in the beginning will last you the entire game, but it’s enough to make the beginning of the game effortless. By the time you DO need more you’ll quite commonly come across fiends that not only drop these items but allow you to draw high level magic directly. 40 –aga spells might not seem much on paper but seriously, next time you go through the game test it out. You really can cause the amount of damage you described. Similarly, while you probably won’t afford ten tents for each character from right after you get Siren, the amount you can afford is enough to give your offensive character enough HP that he doesn’t have to fear being KO’ed while on critical. After that you can just refine them as you can afford more, for when you’ll actually need high HP for the later battles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
I already covered the point about people not following the methodology I described. As I said, just because people don’t know how to break the system doesn’t make it any less broken. The point is you shouldn’t be able to break it to begin with.
I meant that your analogy wasn’t particularly accurate because in other games you consistently gain experience as you go, which means there is no need to stop and level up. The difference in FFVIII is that you can only given a few set opportunities in the beginning to gain some of the better powerful magic, with it only becoming available en masse (through draw points or refining better items) much later in the game. Therefore, I said a better analogy would be if there was a game where most monsters didn’t give EXP unless you are in a few set areas within the game that a few and far between. In that situation, I think most people would level up because they knew they wouldn’t get another opportunity for some time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Yes, it’s my opinion that there is absolutely nothing good about it. I really don’t see any reason to tack ‘IMO’ or whatever on the end of it, especially when you seem to be able to tell I was stating an opinion anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Other games have had just as flexible system without being broken. Hell, virtually every non-Japanese RPG gives you the same level of customization. It’s worth noting though that I wasn’t talking about the junctioning system. I was talking about the draw system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
I sprayed chips all over my monitor laughing at that lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by LunarWeaver
Anyhoo FFVIII is the one for me (draws shell and protect and casts on self in case this isn't the correct answer):mog:
EDIT - What am I worried about? I know its DEFINATELY the right answer.... 0-0-0-0-0-0-0-Renzokuken-R1-R1-R1-R1-R1-R1-R1-PERFECT-LION HEART-OVERKILL...
You recieved the Dragon Quest VIII Card...... Right nows wheres that Omega?
my skip turn button is triangle like normal people 8)
Odd mine's circleQuote:
Originally Posted by rubah
:mog:Quote:
Originally Posted by rubah
EDIT - Youv'e got me thinking now.... I'm just gonna check. BRB
EDIT 2 - Yup it's circle.
I wonder if this is what Jack Thompson means when he mentions the bad effects that video games have on people?
well, now that I think about it, it is circle (*still doesn't have her controller's layout memorized ;D* I was thinking 'one right of X' xD) but it seems like guides always refer to triangle. MAYBE I IMAGINED IT? :D
It's triangle in seven and nine, X in six (the X button on a SNES controller is in the same place as triangle) and circle in eight. That's the exception.
does the default controller set up in ff8 have X as the action button? Or was that 7 that was weird? Or both or more?
it seems like they change the cancel button every FF.. its confusing